Airbnb Arbitrage: Make $250k/Month on Airbnb Without Owning a House | Colin Wright

- All right, so how much money do you make? - About $250,000 a month. - Nice, what do you do? Airbnb arbitrage is my main business right now. Airbnb arbitrage. - Yes, what does that mean? - We're subletting properties from landlords and property managers furnishing them, hiring cleaning teams and basically putting them on short-term rental platforms like Airbnb and renting them out. - So you're literally gonna go rent an apartment, like you'll get like a 12 month lease or something. - Exactly. - And then you just will list that on Airbnb. - Yeah, it's pretty simple when you think about it like that. A lot of people think it's super complicated, but it's really not, it's just that. It's getting permission from a landlord, furnishing the apartment and then putting it on Airbnb. - So apartment buildings like like you do this? - Yeah, actually that's another question I get a lot of time like people think it's so complicated, but here in the US there seems to be a lot of vacancies, especially in apartment complexes. So it's great to target those. They'll even offer me free rent, a lot of the time to take a unit from them. - It's not just that they'll allow Airbnb, they're like here, we'll give you four, eight weeks for rent, and do Airbnb in it for us please. - It kind of seems like a no-brainer, 'cause then they get your rent, so there's no money. And then you, since you can charge a little more for short-term rentals, that's your spread, basically. - Yes. - Okay, understand that we're gonna be making a little bit of profit on the unit, so they're basically guaranteed their rent. So a lot of property management companies and landlords are having issues with tenants paying rent right now. So they know by me operating the business out of the unit that they're guaranteed to get that rent every month. I'm taking care of routine maintenance, it's being cleaned on the regular, we're background checking guests, and that they know that their unit's safe in my hand. - Okay, so this summer you have to be really communicative with each specific apartment building that you're probably working with though, yeah. Like it's not like a, you can't just, I feel like do a lot of apartments like BAN, Airbnb in general for all residences. - It just depends on the market. - Yeah, there's lots of buildings in every different city across America that allow it and some don't, right? Like a condo buildings where you have a lot of ownership in there, probably gonna have some sort of HOA against doing Airbnb. - That makes a lot of sense. So, but it's probably not something, this feels like this is what you ideally want to do 'cause you don't have to take any risk upright, you know, to put down payments down on the building itself. I guess that would just find an apartment that you like. - I guess you kind of have like a little flavor in your brain, how you furnish it or whatever, to attract people and maybe charge a little more based on how it nice it feels. But there's like no risk in the sense of, you don't have to put money down, get a loan from a bank, you don't have to get approved for credit. I guess maybe for an apartment. But it depends, yeah, me surprised. Sometimes I don't get asked for income or credit. - That's why it depends on the complex. - That's wild. - But as you were saying, the risk factor, that's what I love about the business because I've been in, you know, I'm in a multi-family ownership and long-term real estate investments, they cost a lot to purchase upfront. There's a lot of risk with non-paying tenants, you know, tenants that don't take care of your stuff, market fluctuations, interest rates, all this stuff. Gotcha, you're fighting against. With Airbnb arbitrage, it's really no risk. Like you said, it costs very little to furnish. You can get your capital back relatively quick. And like I said, you're not gonna worry about tenants not paying because they've cried before they stay. And you're making a premium on the short-term accommodate. How much is like an average apartment that you're going for? Like are you going like super high-end apartments? Are you going like lower-end, which is like the price range for rent? - For apartments, I found the sweet spot is like almost at like economy level. Like stuff that's relatively cheap on rent. But it looks nice. Like has some decent renovation in wood floors. I try to stay away from carpet, staying with the appliances, upgraded kitchens, all to make it look luxury. - Yeah. - What add a, you know, economy budget. So you're not gonna be able to go in and actually make renovations. But you'll find when it has a good base and then you can style it, furnish it. - Exactly. - It's all in the furnishings and photography. - Okay, so what's like a good writ from what you're discussing that you would pay if you were going to get the lease for the apartment? - So that's all relative to the market you're in. - Yeah. - You know, something in Texas where the market that I'm in, you're probably looking at like a thousand to $1200 for a one-bedroom. - Gotcha. - Miami, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Be like $2,020, right? - Yeah. - But you're also gonna make more in Miami. - Okay. - So you have to look at the, you have to break the numbers down. - Right. - And see, and the rent is really, the rent really doesn't matter if the, which I say if the revenue is there. - Yeah, okay. So you're in Texas mainly? Is where you're doing this? - Yes. - Okay. - So you're looking like a $1200 apartment, basically. - Yeah, and you were from like 12 to $13, $1400. - Then how much would you rent that out for on Airbnb, typically? - Typically we'd see, we usually, we usually aim for double, double our rent. Okay, so a good way to look at it, you know, if you're, if you're all expenses in, you know, with a $1300, all right, let's say $1500 after utilities, you're probably gonna want to make it at least $3,000 a month, gross revenue on Airbnb. - So your goals make $3,000? - Yeah. - And do you just make like an assumption that I'm gonna rent this out for 15 nights a month, 20 nights a month, like is there like an average number that you might have? - I try to rent it out every night of the month. Like in the last year, I've been 95% plus occupant. - So you're, so like a hundred bucks a night? - It fluctuates because it depends what's going on in the city, like we just had the solar eclipse in Austin. So people were paying like for $500 a night for one bedroom apartment. - This is really where you get your edge. Like you're looking at like big events in the city. - It's paying my whole rent in three nights for every apartment for the solar eclipse. - My whole rent for the month in three nights. - That's wild. - Yeah, wow. - Okay, so how many of these do you have? - I have 34 now. - 34 least apartments that you rent out. - 11 homes and 23 apartments. - Oh, so you can do homes to that makes sense? - Yes. - Okay. And so these are all, what's the deal? - Is it just Austin and San Antonio? - Yeah. - I'm working on Dallas and hopefully you're going to start coming into some Florida markets. - You're Canadian though, right? - I'm Canadian, yeah. - So how did you choose Dallas or Texas? - Originally, I think we thought we wanted to relocate to Texas. We were kind of like, you know, vibing with that kind of, what's the word I'm looking for? - We're country folk. - Yeah. - We're like, Texas, yeah, I mean, but then we actually had a couple of friends get their visas and moved to the Ford area. So we decided to try here and we love here too. - Okay, so do you need to like get like an explicit, 'cause I know this isn't like a thing you just do. So you kind of have to have like a one-on-one conversation with the landlord, right? - Yep. - Are you guys like setting out like a contract? Like essentially, yeah, like you have your standard lease and then in that lease, they're giving permission to sublet the property or you're signing a lease at Dendham. - So subletation. - Okay. - Yeah, essentially subletting. - And that's kind of just something you could find online just like here's like a sublet section just making sure that's very crystal clear. - Yeah, I actually have an Dendham, that's where I got it. Where that we would send and they got signed just giving us permission to list on the short term link and you just standardize that. - Yep. - Huh, okay. So I guess what are like edges that you can get in this game? - There's lots. I mean, you don't really, you know, you honestly don't really need an edge. Like just need to go and do it. - Yeah. - Really, like it's, it's as simple as that. It's getting on the phone, calling properties, calling landlords, knowing how to talk and pitch the business, explaining the benefits to a property manager and a landlord and why they should and why they want you to lease the property. Turn, you almost put the script. - Have you had any issues that popped up like with landlords specifically? - Not really, no, not since I started, I have a very good relationship with all my property managers and landlords. They're all very happy with the business I'm running. Like I said, I do run a pretty clean business. We run cameras, noise sensors. We've got our guests, so we don't have a lot of problems and issues and they love us. - Where are the cameras? Are you allowed to have camera running cameras outside? - Oh, okay. - Got things inside, okay. - Got things inside. But we let people know that, you know, if you're coming here to party, you're gonna be evicted right away. - Okay. - So we, you know, those people just kind of don't book our place. - Yeah, okay. So with Airbnb, what kind of like team do you need to assemble for you to, because you don't even live in Texas? - Yeah, you can do it completely. That's what's even more amazing about it. I'm actually setting up two units right now. My team's there. They ordered all the furniture last week. I have four virtual assistants and I employ from the Philippines. - Mm-hmm. - So they're about three to five bucks an hour. So I have four that do like my full-time work and then I have one that actually calls buildings. - Gotcha. - He's doing the prospecting. - So one of your VA's is doing prospecting. - Yeah. - Trying to find plans to do the things. - Gotcha. - Like looking for in a building, like what's a good? - Basically they're just looking for, all I get them to do is look for permission to do, you know, to, we call it corporate leasing. That's like the professional term, like we're not calling and saying, "Hey, can we Airbnb?" - Yeah, yeah. - Or your property, right? That kind of scared it. Let's landlords, you know. Listen to what's there back up against all that. Well, Airbnb, like, right? So we always go by the term corporate leasing. We have, you know, we work with business clientele, we work with traveling nurses, you know, to start off with that, to kind of, you know, like ease them into the conversation, I guess. - Gotcha. - So you're kind of like, "Ah, okay, so you felt like these, like, so. " - That's interesting. - It's all about using the proper terminology first, and having the conversation, establishing that trust and relationship with the person you're talking to, right? - Yeah. - And then at the end, say, "Hey, you know, we are subletting the property. We may need to fill some nights on booking.com, expedia, the short term rental platforms. Are you okay with it?" - They're like a stigma towards Airbnb to these peers. - A little bit of stigma to Airbnb to single family landlords. When you call apartment buildings, they are usually just a yes or no. - Yeah. - Know what you're doing, right? They're very aware of it. - Gotcha. So apartment buildings can be a little bit easier, I think, for beginners. But then again, you know, having a conversation with a guy that owns one rental property and just guarantee you're not gonna pay the rent can be very easy to. - Gotcha, that makes sense. That makes sense. - Let's say you find an apartment that's down to do it. Would you ever get like multiple units in one apartment or do you, okay, is that the ideal? Like, like, would you get as many as you can? Is there a max that would be like, maybe this is like pushing it for this location? - It just depends on the area. Like some of my mentors have 40, 50 units in the same building. I have most units at one building I have is eight. - If you do what you're doing with arbitrage in renting an apartment? - Yeah, or leasing an apartment and renting that out. The furniture probably is like the biggest cost. - Yes, of course it is. - Yeah. - So how much would you typically want to budget for furnishing? - For a one-bedroom apartment, you're gonna be somewhere in like the $5,000 range? - Okay, wow. Sometimes a little bit higher, sometimes a little bit lower, just depends on the space and the size, right? And then let's say a three or four bedroom would be anywhere from like 10 to 50, okay. - Okay, well, that's not terrible though. And then how fast do you think you would recruit that? - Well, that's, as I was saying earlier, back to the free rent. I basically only take free rent deals now. So any property I'm picking up at least four weeks free. If I can get eight or 12, even better. Basically, the deals I just did are eight weeks free rent. So in those eight weeks, it'll take me one week to furnish. And then I have seven weeks where I'm not paying rent. I'm gonna get at least $500 a week for those seven weeks, which is essentially gonna get me back $3,500. I have five K. - That's almost all paid back in my free rent period. And then next month after, I'll be fully paid back. - So basically, within three months? - Yeah, that's really smart. 'Cause where I just moved to that, my first two months were free. - Yeah, basically if you sign a long term lease, they're gonna try to get you like, they're gonna give you one or two months, no rent whatsoever. - Yeah, I guess you don't even have to sign a long term. - Yeah, I mean like 12 months. - That's for that long, right? - Yeah. - And then I just had this is where it gets even better with arbitrage. I just had five units that I've already been there a year. So they set me the renewals. And I asked for four weeks free on the renewal and they said yes. So I'm not going anywhere. Those units are making their money. But now they're gonna give me $7,500 for free, essentially. Just for re, like re-opping my lease. - Okay, so now I'm interested. If you have to furnish an apartment, what are you all buying? - Basically everything you need, right? Like give me every, like you would say you're gonna get a couch, you're gonna get a bed. - Yeah, some nightstands, so you see here everything. You're gonna do the full kitchen, you know, I do air friars, coffee, cuir eggs, hot water kettles, full kitchen, amenities, always a workstation. That's very important to people now. Fast Wi-Fi, big Roku TVs are very important. I do those, the ONN TVs from Walmart. They're super cheap for 65 inch. - Yeah, they're like 300 bucks. - But they're big, yes, very easy to use. It has all the apps for everyone, right? I try to almost like dumb it down. You know, make sure that the experience is very easy. And they have everything they need, right? It's like a hair blow dryer. - Yes, okay. - Anything that a hotel would have, and then some. - Gotcha. - Has there ever been, is there like a little unique, like a espresso machine or something that like really, that you've seen like has moved the needle on like bookings, like any small detail that you wouldn't really expect? - No, I wouldn't say that there's anything like that. Like we do do the pods, the coffee pods versus the - I prefer the coffee maker. - Yeah, a lot of people I don't think know how to even use those. - I don't, I literally had to have an idea, right? - I'm the same way, I went to one once and I'm like, I don't know how to use this, right away. I'm like, okay, I gotta put the pods in my Airbnb's, right? Are you, do you have Netflix and that like those logged in or they just have the ability? - I do have logins of someone asked for them. Like my, it's a, you know, it's a nice business expense. I can have all the streaming platforms that I can use to my stuff too, right? So if anyone ever asked for the login, it's there. - Oh, that's really cool. - Yeah, okay, cool. So you guys, you have like a specific like thesis on like the location of the building. Like is it like, it needs to be next to a hospital. Maybe those are great. Yeah, next to hospitals are always great, especially small apartments because traveling, the traveling nurse industry is very big. - Interesting. - Yeah, so you'll get a lot of nurses. We get a lot of people that are just in town Monday to Friday from work, like people that will come from Dallas, down to Austin and they don't want to travel back and forth since during the week, right? So they'll rent our places during the week. And then on weekends, we have all walks of life, you know, family vacations, people coming into party, big events, especially in Austin, there's always stuff happening every month. - Okay, so you definitely recommend a city where people travel. - Yes. - That may be a lot of tourism. - Okay, tourism, tourist cities. Have you, I guess, Dallas, or Texas is like the only state you've been in, correct? - Correct. - What's the other cities that Austin and what? - I'm in San Antonio. - San Antonio to be in Dallas, yeah. - How do those two differ? - They both have, yeah, they have different, obviously, attractions, but it's really the same model just repeated in both cities. Like, there's nothing really different between the two cities, the way I do and run things. - And then photography, do you hire like a local photographer? - Yeah, I feel like you're probably looking for like a very specific aesthetic. - Yes, you're looking for someone that knows how to shoot short-term rentals. Like, HDR photography knows like shooting in bracket. Someone that can really light up the space and make it look luxury. Shooting in bracket. - Pictures are probably the most important thing. - Yeah, I come this out. That's like listing. So let's get into the Airbnb site. I would love to get into the Airbnb site. Then so basically, photos are really, where do you find someone like this? Just go, are you just Instagram or using like that? - Yeah, using a referral from someone else like through my network and my other Airbnb communities. That's the best way, obviously, if you can find a referral because I've used a couple of guys before that were absolute trash. Like, standard real estate photography is not short-term rental photography. It's two different ways of shooting. Like, if you have someone that's used to shooting just normal real estate for like listing houses for sale, everything's gonna be like wide-angle. - Gotcha. - Gonna highlight the features and stuff. - Yeah, yeah, that's very important. I can understand that. So is Airbnb, there's probably like, I would love to hear like your thought process on like setting up and designing your listings. But first question I guess would be, are you like creating like a universal brand of like all of your units on there or they each like independently and unless they click on your host name, they wouldn't really know. As this place was basically like, they have like, they have like a company name on like the first photo. Yeah, I saw there's like wanting the listings in Miami and it was like their brand name was Watermarked on the head, like the main photo. - Yeah, so I'm not branding like that because I think that works against you in the industry. I think that you want to come off as more of like a family. This is like a small investment. You know, you maybe got one or two properties and it's family run. I think that people appreciate that more. - I agree actually, you know, bigger corporations. So little things like using a family picture in your profile, make sure so people can see that you're a family person. You have kids even, another funny thing that one of my mentors told me too was that if you're a single male, like if instead of, you shouldn't be putting just your picture in your profile. You actually either be using, sorry, I shouldn't say single, but you should be using your wife or family picture because people tend to actually book Airbnb's with, you know, family pictures or female host pictures. - I've known it for a male. - That makes sense. I mean, it totally does make sense. - Yeah. - 'Cause little things like that. - There's like subtle like messaging about that. Like the one guy, like I don't know, he might bust it. - Yeah. - Especially with women. They're gonna feel more of that schoolbooking from a female host. - For sure, without a doubt. I've also seen people with Airbnb's will put like fake family photos on their like, inside the house to make it, I feel like. More hope for your content. That's always funny. Well, okay, so like back to like listing strategy in general, that definitely makes sense. Like don't like corporateize your, it's supposed to be like homey one more personal experience that you're kind of just like working or living this one person's home and they're gonna give you good service that's kind of how it's felt. - Yeah, like I try not to, you know, have that kind of like, like you wanna have that homey feel, right? And we wanted to be like my VA's are checking up on my guests constantly, right? They're making sure that, you know, when as soon as they get there that everything is up to their expectations, like we're coaching them through the whole process to make sure that they're leaving us a five-star review at the end, too, because that's just as important as everything else is great reviews. - I feel like how you're gonna stand out and get more bookings over time. - Yeah. - Okay. - Because you'll be surprised people will go through every single review. - Oh, yeah. - For sure. And there's so many options on there. Like you have to have every edge. Okay, so have you ever found out, found like specific like, since you have eight units in one apartment, can you kind of try different marketing angles with like your title? Like are you speaking to like the target demographic, like the traveling nurse home? Like I see people like brand there. - Yeah, so we'll try to throw some of that into like the listing description and SEO, but like I'm not, some of like one of my mentors, he does every unit the same. Like it's all the same furniture. He gets every wall the exact same. There's no real thought or character in the units. I'm kind of different. I try to like change all my units up. I use different colors. I try to use different furniture for each one. So they're not all the same. - Right. - If you wanted to. - Yeah, and I do sometimes paint accent walls. I have a unit that's all pink. So like I've tried almost doing the themed unit seemed. - Okay. - Yeah, like kind of, that kind of is like too far one way. That unit doesn't do it. - Yeah. - If I work with the other units in that building, but it was an experiment. I wanted to try and see how well it worked, right? But I do find that making every listing different with a little bit of a theme behind it, you know, a subtle theme, like that can still cater to a wide range of guests is what you want to do. - So what would you say like a common title is for one of you? Like what is the title from? - Error room. - Basic. I actually hire a copywriter to do my titles and my description and all that. It's, we don't get too specific. It'll be like cozy and luxury, you know, warm and like he does stuff like that. And then maybe he'll be a mention like free parking or something that's important to people in that area, right? So just kind of understanding what that specific area, like if it's just New York free parking. - Yes, exactly. - Like more pool. - Yeah, yeah, in your Texas summer heat. - Exactly. - Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's like these are like obvious things, but you really have to think through it and be intentional about it. Yeah, once you think about it, it comes obvious. How much would you expect to like what is like, if you are getting a new unit, how much would you need like 8K, 10K? If you're starting off right from the beginning, your first unit's obviously gonna cost you a little bit more because you're gonna need to, you know, there's gonna be some trial and error with the first one. There's probably gonna be a few mistakes, you know, logistical issues, meeting your team member, you know, hiring a new photographer, setting up a company, all that. But if you're already, you know, got all that done, then yeah, I'd say five to 10,000 is a good budget for like a one, two, three bedroom. And then you'd probably make that back in the first year pretty quick. Oh, you're, you're, if you're not making it back in the first year, then you've made some serious mistakes. - But you're expecting maybe three or four months to make that back. - Yeah, on average, with if you're not getting free rent consent, free rent concessions, then six to 12 months is good. - Yeah. - The average based on the market, but if you're getting free rent man, like two, three, four months, interesting. How have you been doing this? Just over a year, actually. - You've probably been doing it for a year. - And you have 34? - Yes. - Yeah. - And you know, I took like four or five months off in that time frame. I did 34 and basically like seven, eight months. - Damn, dude. - Yeah, you regularly question it. - In my whole life then. - I wasn't like rushing it either. I was like taking my time, like I was already well established before this, right? So it's for someone that's like hungry and motivated. I know guys that have done 50 to 100 units in one year. - Oh my god. - Have you marketed your Airbnb's off platform at all? Like is it just straight up real again? Airbnb has been really good to me. So I'm kind of loyal to them. They have great insurance coverage as well. So anytime I guess like, say they smoke in my unit, yeah, just trash the place. They always pay out. So I'm not worried about the insurance side. When you do off market bookings, you definitely need to have some solid insurance that you're paying for outside of the platform. Just in case that does happen. But Airbnb almost, I hear that they penalize people if they're on all these other sites because it will like say I take a booking on VRBO, my Airbnb calendar is gonna be blocked. That's happening more and more and they see that, this guy's booking somewhere else 50% of the month, we're not gonna push him as much. Because we're not making, they have an algorithm. So now they're gonna take someone that let's say you're only on Airbnb, maybe they replace you with me. - Nice. - They wanna push as many listings, so be low. It is many bookings as they can on their platform. It's interesting that there's an Airbnb algorithm. - Yes, there is. - And it's very tricky, and I'm always changing it too. Like probably how much you're on there for support, how fast you apply, like yeah, they're really gonna, there's little tricks or tips and tricks that you can try, like little things, like even just changing your pricing for every listing three times a day, will help push it in the algorithm. So I was like, it's taught to go up by a dollar, down by a dollar, just three times a day, because it's just you being on the platform, constantly messing with your listing, Airbnb sees it as this you care. - Professional hosts. - Yeah. - They're constantly making adjustments, you know, they're on the platform, and they like that, right? - What would other variables like that be? Like how, obviously screen time on the app, how quickly you reply to guests, reviews are obviously gonna be like the number one thing, for sure. - Yep. - And then changing price, is there anything else that you've thought of that's like, or that you've heard of? - Yeah, obviously being a super host is another great, what does it take to be a super host? - You basically need over 10 booking, over 10 stays, over a 4.8 rating, 100% reply rating, I think. And then there's less than 1% cancellation. That's the big one. - Okay. - So if you have 100 bookings and you cancel two of them, then you gotta lose super host status. - So you can, I never cancel any bookings. - Okay. - If there's a problem, we always get the guest or Airbnb to do it. - But that's different than requesting and then denying. - Yes, so if you confirm the booking, then cancel that for your reference. - Exactly. - And it's 10 stays for one unit? - No, it's just 10 stays across all of your power but you have in every quarter. So it's not 10 units, it's just, if you have three, three or four each, yeah. - Correct. And they'll assess super host once every three months. - Gotcha, do you just like apply for that basically? - They just assess all their Airbnb hosts, every three months. They'll read each, if you read that, meet the criteria every three months, then you could lose it. - But you could lose it. - Yeah, but you could lose it. - Certainly you can. - Wow. - Okay, so what are mistakes of someone that is just doing this? Probably they don't see coming. - Yeah, I think probably some of the biggest mistakes that people don't see coming is just managing the business. Like as a business, a lot of people I think just think that they can throw furniture in a unit and then put up on Airbnb and there's nothing else. - Right. - The backend is just as important, right? Having systems and some sort of structure like with virtual assistants and procedures that they're following to ensure guest satisfaction is the most important thing in the business. We need your guests to be happy. - So let's go through that team process then, 'cause I can imagine like the turnover, like you have someone checking out at 11, someone coming in at three, so you're like doing every day, like you said. Like the cleaning person needs to be on time. They can't be working for somebody else and be like, "Hey, last minute, I can't do it for you." - Yeah. - Would you have to step in and go do it yourself? Have you done that? - We have backup cleaners, but I've been working with the same cleaners for a while now, in both cities and they're very reliable. So they have teams and they have-- - So it's a cleaning company? - Yeah, I use cleaning contractors. - Contractors. - Yeah, like a couple of them, I have a couple cleaning companies and then I have a couple of just individuals that are starting now to hire people because we're getting so busy. - Okay, so I'm sure at this point, this market has evolved where there probably are like dedicated cleaning companies for Airbnb's. - Yes, of course. - So you probably have like three or four independent contractors in your roster, then like these two companies that could like come in in an emergency, yes, and it's just your job or probably one of your VA's job to just communicate book and make sure a cleaner is ready to do that, correct? - Yeah, they're doing all the scheduling. A lot of it's automated now actually through the softwares, but oh, what software? So you can use Terno, which is the big one, and then my property management system, we use this host away. So host away will automatically schedule the cleaners I've set for certain properties, and then my V is will double check with the cleaners, like hey, we're just making sure that you know you're cleaning this, this, and this, tomorrow, can you confirm everything's all good, all good? So the night before we know, before we're gonna have a problem for the next day, and then that's when like, hey, we can't cover this one clean. Okay, contact the backup cleaners, get them there. Okay, I like to be really detailed. So on host away, say that this person's checking me out and you need them to be there tomorrow at 11, 'cause you have someone coming in at three, you would just like click a button, set the time, or what, how does that? - No, it's all automated because host away knows our checkout hours, and they know that the guest is leaving, so you just a new guest, the cleaner automatically gets scheduled the next day, or the moment after. - Yeah. - And so there's a cleaner have to accept it, or click it, or does it correct? - So every time we have a booking, it will get sent in order to like our primary cleaner, and then if they don't take it, it will go to the secondary clean. So if they accept it, then it goes right to them, and they're scheduled, they will go to their calendar, they know, and then my VA will also follow up. - It's like 95% automated. - Yeah, so on their side, they just open up this app, and then say, oh, job opportunity, job opportunity, I'm gonna work today. - Yeah, they can make their own. - Yeah, but it's, they're working every day. - Yeah, yeah. - We're having a ton of turnovers, so most of my cleaners are full-time with me. - They are full-time. - Yeah, after that. - So the best thing you can do for your bottom line is to hire in-house cleaners. If you can find cleaners that are willing to clean for an hourly rate, and then just outsource the laundry, that's gonna make you the most money. - Explain that. - What's the ideal hourly rate, and why do they outsource that? - On the city as well, like with Austin, no one wants to work hourly. They all want, like, her job price. - How much would that be? - Anywhere from like eight bucks for a one bedroom, up to like 150 bucks for a four bedroom, I'm getting charged. - A little bit more than that and the cleaning. - Yeah, it depends. Like, my cleaners have come down on their pricing because I'm giving them so much work now, right? Their prices used to be a lot. - So you got bulk deals. So 80 to 120 for a flat fee, what would be the ideal hourly? Like, to 15 an hour or 20 an hour. - And in Austin, you probably have to pay like 35 bucks an hour. - Damn, how long does it take to clean one, would you say? - One bedroom should be like half an hour. - What? - Yeah, yeah. - They change the sheets. - Yeah, because they've already got the laundry done off site, right? - So what does that mean? So they have like, so offsite laundry means like, you have like two sets of everything. - Yeah, they always have multiple sets. So like, they'll take the dirty stuff off, they'll send that to the cleaning company, they'll do it, and then they have a fresh set. - They didn't drop it off at the cleaning company, or just, yeah, sometimes they'll come pick it up, drop it off. - I don't have any of those services right now, because we do everything on site. Okay, so right now, they will take the dirty sheets off, throw it in the washer, start cleaning. - Yeah. - Throw it in the dryer. - Yeah. - They already have the fresh set. - They already have the fresh sheet, but they'll wash through the dirty sheet while they're cleaning. - And prepare for the next cleaning, you got it. - Interesting. - Yeah, you can do it a few different ways. Like, my mentor, he, it depends what city are in, 'cause some cities you can hire, you know, hourly employees, and then outsource the laundry. And that is a lot cheaper, gotcha, right? So, if you can do it like that, I recommend doing it like that. This is fascinating, bro. 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Go to Shopify.com/WGMI to grow your business no matter what stage you're in. That's Shopify.com/WGMI. So you have cleaners. That's like the most like crucial part of this. Yes. Then you have, so you have four VAs. Two of them are doing three. So we have them like every shift. So we're covered 24 hours. So you have, so you have three sets of three. No, you have one for each shift. And then I have an outsource VA. Okay, got it. And I have a manager now actually is. Okay, so those three VAs are just doing, replying to messages on Airbnb. So doing scheduling with cleaners and other team members. What other team members do you need in your pipeline to be covered on all basis? Basically just the VAs and then a handyman and the cleaners. Like I should have a handyman outside in case stuff gets broken. You need to fix setup units, stuff like that. Okay, so the handy, so interesting question here. Apartments have like maintenance already. We're like an apartment building. So yeah, can you use those people or want your own person? That's another beauty of the rent. A lot of the charge like any big issues like air conditioners, heating, water, plumbing. Yeah, it's all gonna be covered. I'm not coming out of pocket for right. Whereas if I own the property, all those expenses fall on me too. So what about, so the handyman would bore so B for homes? Or just like, if you have apartments too, just like if someone like say they broke a chair. Yeah. We had trouble with the electronic lock or something. Not maintenance, handyman. My cleaners can do a lot of changing for his filters. My cleaners do do a lot of the routine maintenance. So I don't often have to bring in the handyman either. If you have handy cleaners, it's even better. Like my cleaners will charge my ring cameras. They'll change the batteries in the locks. Nice. So I don't have to. It's a little details either. Yeah, it all adds up, right? Yeah. So basically, did you use onledjobs.ph to hire these VAs? Yeah. What was your listing? That's the number one site for purchase. Yeah. And yeah, not even, I never even went crazy with the listing, just asked for someone to have prior experience with Airbnb, obviously managing short term rentals, doing inventories, talking to cleaners, obviously good communications deals. And so that's just like on a high side, five bucks an hour. And you? Yeah, I'm paying under bucks a week to the three of them and then 125 to the outreach. So that's a deal. Yeah, for 40 hours. Yeah. Wow. And then they're all just, you have it scheduled. Hey, your schedule's 8 p.m. to exact 4 a.m. This one's 4 a.m. to noon. New up to 8. So you always have someone. So you reply time. I basically pay 20 bucks a shift. Got you. I kind of like that because they do work weekends as well too. Got you. And then you have one that's dedicated towards the actual outbound. Yeah. Okay. I'll get to that in a little later. So a handyman is just how much this is just one person for like all your units. Pretty much. And he's like, oh, yeah. I have a few of them in every city just because they're not so reliable. Some of them like have time jobs and stuff. They're doing this part time, right? So we've got three or four in each city that we can call. But they're not usually like two urgent issues. It's more so just like. One off problem here. One up. Yeah. If it's like a super urgent issue, it's usually the property management company that's going to deal with it, right? Cause it's super urgent issues are usually like HVAC or plumbing. Got you. Yeah. So they have a maintenance team. That's cool. That makes a lot of sense. So is the cleaning fee like a place where you do make like a good margin as like some people will upsell the cleaning fee on the on the platforms. But I don't like whatever I'm getting charged for cleaning is what I put in Airbnb. They're trying to make way with the cleaning fees. So I'm trying to get mine out as possible. It's frustrating whether you're like, oh, it's only two hundred bucks a night. It's like a seven dollar cleaning fee. Yeah. How does that even cost? Exactly. But now I think these changes so you can see total cost, right? Yeah. Which include everything. They probably got a lot of flack for that then. Yeah. Okay. So is that, but can you make the cleaning fee whatever you want technically? You really can. But at a certain point, no one's going to book. Yeah. So you got kind of a lot of each strategic like some people will even reduce their cleaning fee. And it's not going to be a nightly rate depending on the market, right? But the market I'm in, the cleaning fees are high. So I leave them what to pay. It is really cool how you can like market these Airbnb's in ways like make a few luxury that has a pricing strategy that's luxury. Yep. Cleaning fees. Maybe if you want to have a high cleaning fee, but at low pricing to like attract people. Yeah. It's like all like a thing you should test. Yeah. Definitely every market's different. And you've got to play with your pricing strategy and you've got to tweak it until it's perfect, right? I love in this conversation. Wow. Okay. What was the host? What was the other one? I used host away and slack for my team communication Monday.com for like task management and inventory. Yeah. I really basically. Yeah. Yeah. All that stuff. And then basically host away does majority of the work. What all does host away do? I have my electronic locks integrated in there. I have to think all my automated messaging. It can do auto reviews. It's handling my cleaners tasks. It can do so much more like integrate with all these different products like your minute sensors, your dynamic pricing software. Basically they have, I think the most integrations on the market right now. It's just all integrated into Airbnb basically. Yeah. They work with all the short-term rental platforms. It's a dynamic pricing. So this thing, how would you set out dynamic pricing? Dynamic pricing is essentially like a software where they have a pricing algorithm based on demand in the city. So you set like a base price and you set different rules for each of your listings. And then they'll fluctuate prices up and down based on that. But that app has all the data. Yes. And they do it for you. So you don't even have to do it unless you see an opportunity. Yeah. You essentially set a base price. You know, they'll give you a suggestion on the base price based on your market. You know, how many bedrooms you have. All that stuff. And then you can tweak that and your rule sets and then they'll fluctuate based on what's going on. Interesting. Yeah. Exactly. Like messaging automation. Yeah. Basically, the messaging automations are when someone inquires about booking, they'll get automation right away because that helps with that response time and rate, right? So really the way we're making sure that we touch that guess right away. And then my VAs will take over the conversation. They'll get like a notification that yes, they're triggered. Yep. And then after the booking, they'll get, you know, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We send the check-in instructions a day before. That's another automated message. And that's set up for each unit individual because they all have, you know, different particulars, right? When you're setting check-in instructions, what's pretty important to cover? Like it's like, this is a thing you have to, you almost dumb it down for people. Could you explain like some of the key things that you'd want as a host are like pretty critical for your system? Yeah. Because again, to make money, you need to be dialed in and you need a book for like 25, 30 days a month. Yep. Pretty much if you're wanting to be a professional at this. And so like those check-in instructions are probably designed where it's kind of like a meet in the middle with the guest, like dishes in the dishwasher, stuff like that. We don't really do any of that. I hate Airbnb hosts who make me do the dishes. I don't put any like tasks for the guests to check out your hero. Yeah. Like I'm paying my cleaners a good penny to clean, like they can clean, right? Obviously we get the odd guests, it just takes advantage and they'll just leave everything everywhere. And sometimes my cleaners will charge me a little bit more. But for the most part, guests are pretty reasonable. The check-in instructions were basically trying to explain to the guests and walk them through the whole process, right? So what do they do when they show up? Where can you park? Where can you not park? Do you need a parking pass on your car? This is the code for your unit, how to use the walk once you get in, what to do? Wi-Fi password. Yeah. Wi-Fi password. And then the rules again. Because we want to let people know, hey, you know, smoking, no partying. You're going to be kicked out. All this stuff, right? Okay. Are there any specific rules that you found that like are just pretty important rules? Yeah. The smoking. We always put that even in the listing before prior, like you're going to be evicted, charge $500, same thing with parties, unauthorized guests, unauthorized pets, all that stuff. Yeah. I can be allowed pets, but we charge for them. That's basically just to avoid the more to thorough, the better written that is, the less messages you're going to get. For sure. Yeah. Like I said, you just really have to dumb it down. Honestly, sometimes you even have to provide like directions, just which way to walk. Yeah. Right. People get lost really easily. They're in a city they're not familiar with. So make it as easy as possible or not text happy people. So can you change the code to get into, it's almost to code that they get? So with our electronic locks, they automatically set a code for each guest that is done the last four days. So is there a phone number? Right. It makes it really easy. Yeah. Everyone can remember the last four days of their phone number, right? So we'll tell them, hey, this is your code. It's also the last four days of your phone number. And it's only valid for for their checkout date or check in date and check out through the stack. Yes. Exactly. Wow. So everyone gets their own code and their code won't work after the reservation is over. Like we don't want any guests. Obviously. Of course. Because the guest is in or whatnot. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. And have you found that that code system is better than, I guess that's probably the most convenient for everybody. Yeah. It's not as long. In code is the best lock you can possibly use in the business, launch, encode, encode. That's like what you're putting on your door. Yeah. And so with a landlord to let you do that. Yep. Yep. Some buildings may be against it, but I haven't had one tell me no yet. Exactly. I did have one building kind of push back and I explained to the benefits and, you know, with maintenance and a guest, if we need to get in for emerging maintenance and a guest has a key and they're not there, how do you get into the unit with the door lock? I can give, you know, a set of specific, a specific code for maintenance to go in. And I have a history of who went in the unit, what code was used, what time stamped and everything. Got you're important, right? Yeah. So do you have, do they do apartment complexes have acts like they can get into your unit any time. Technically, they have a key unless you have like a dead volt while you're in. Yes. All the units have a dead bowl in case someone's in there, right? In there, right. But if in theory, so do you have to give the apartment complex just a universal code? I usually do ghosts and casers and extreme maintenance, like all the apartments are going to have a spare key regardless, right? So, but like I said, for guest safety, if they are in the unit, they all have a deadlock that or a deadbulb, sorry, that even if they tried that key, that can't get in if someone's in there. Interesting. Yeah. And then the thank you automated messages, just encouraging them to leave a review. Basically. Yeah. We're almost trying to coach the guests from start to finish. You know, hey, when you show up, please let us know everything is perfect. We strive for five star reviews. And then I even have a magnet that goes on every fridge that kind of shows the Airbnb rating system because people don't understand that anything less than a five star in Airbnb is like a fail. And Airbnb takes it very seriously. We're with hotels. You can go three and a half four star is decent. That's what the hotel's called. It's a four star. Yeah. Exactly, right? So, we always have to kind of reiterate that to the guest and let them know that, hey, as long as, you know, everything was fine, you should give us five star. And so, are you, how time intensive is this for you, assuming that you weren't looking for new places? Let's say you just stop today. Yeah. Straight up management. Yep. How much time would you say you're spending on this? Really? Like, probably a couple hours a week if we're talking like no units, but yeah, once we're held in the unit expansion, even though I have a team on the ground doing it, I'm still talking to them, telling them how I want the units to look, what furniture that I think they should buy because I'm not doing a universal setup, right? I'm using the same stuff over it. I get over and over again. Yep. I was to do that. It would just be like, they know what furniture to order. They know how to set it up. I wouldn't have to be involved, but I still like to be involved in my pricing, right? Gotcha. Because at the end of the day, a virtual assistant in the Philippines doesn't know what I need to make. Yeah. Right? Or how I want to set my prices. So every morning, I adjust them. I look at them. I'm happy with them. And that's essentially all I have to do for the whole day with whatever, what's a good margin with every, like all your employees, yes, all your units. What is a good profit margin? In Airbnb arbitrage, you are, you should expect around a 30 to 50 percent margin, depending on the margin. That is amazing. It's time of year. Yeah. Like last month, we did a 44 percent margin. That is amazing, dude. Wow. That's cool. Okay. So, the whole team is just three VAs for, like, management, managing the units, scheduling the cleaners, double-checking the cleaners, the messages. Yeah. Just anything that could really go on day to day for some tiny, common, and so I actually brought on one of the ladies that runs the cleaning, one of the cleaning teams for me in Austin. I brought her on as a manager. Nice. So, now I took myself, because I was, the VAs were asking you and asking me questions now. I wanted to take myself out of that, so now I brought her in between. Somehow, she will come to me if there's a bigger issue that I need to, you know, answer to. What's a good salary for that role, just baseline? She charged me three hundred bucks a week. It's not a lot. It's all virtual for me. Yeah, her right. She's doing it from her phone, you know, while she's doing. That's a good job. Her business. Yeah. I think it's a pretty good gig, and I was all over that. I'm like, well, $1,200 a month. Clearser. For me, just to, like, not have to worry about anything. Yeah. So, cleaning teams on standby, a handyman on standby, every once in a while, whenever you need a, just like a few of your rotation, three VAs, just one every eight hours. You don't need that, though, but that's like, you need that at my scale. Like, I didn't even have a VA for my first seven homes. I was just doing it myself. But even that, for all those people, it's probably not even like, how much is that a month, like, 3,000 month? Yeah. I said, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you scale up, you have more money to spend on stuff like that. So, yeah. You can, you know, de-stress your life, right, by giving away a little bit extra of the money you make, right? That's so worth it. Yeah. So, basically, most of your time is going to go into getting new units, furnishing them, getting the photos taken, getting a listing up. Are you doing all that? Exactly. If I want new units, that's where my time's going, right? My VA will message me, say, hey, Colin, you know, we got some leads in this city. Here's the info. And then I'll follow up and I'll call the property if I think that it's a good fit for me and start negotiating, you know, sign the lease and then get my team to start the process of setting it up. Okay. So, then let's go into that side of this things now. This is kind of like sales in a way, like you're selling those things. Essentially is. So, let's do prospecting first. How does, you have a dedicated VA that's sold your office just to look for units, look for opportunities where you could potentially do Airbnb arbitrage? So, how can they, I didn't, just tell me all about the lead prospecting. How are they identifying a potential target, and then once they've identified one, when they call, what are they trying to, what information they're trying to get before it gets into you? Yeah. So, back to the corporate leasing terminology. Yeah. They're basically calling buildings, seeing if they've worked with corporate leasing, if they allow it, okay, if they allow it, is there any restrictions, can the guests stay less than 30 days? Is it, you know, what are the restrictions around them, corporate leasing? And then if they're, they say, yeah, they do corporate leasing, yes, they allow short term rentals, you know, under 30 days, that's when he lets me know, hey, we got hot lead at this building, and got you all call, and I'll talk to the person. Is that what you're using Monday.com for? Yeah. Essentially, Monday is just to like organize everything, you know, keep a, I do a property detail database in there, so I have a full database built out of every property. So every little detail for every property, so my VA, like say, I hire a new VA, how are they going to, they've never seen any of these properties. They can go in there, any question that a guest is going to ask is going to be in that database archive it in there. Yeah. And then I have full storage unit inventories, like my cleaners will go once a week, they always tell my, they'll do a full inventory at the storage unit, and they also tell my VA is what they're taking. So they can adjust stocks and order new stuff. Okay. So you have like a storage unit that has like toilet paper, yeah, like towels, all delivered from Amazon to that storage unit. And then cleaners go and, and organize it. We have shelving systems. So you'll get a ship directly there, like later responsibilities to unbox it, organize it, shelves. Yeah. Labels and everything. So let my VA's know that the stuff we ordered arrived. And then if they take anything, hey, we took, you know, 50 rolls of toilet paper, and then they'll adjust the stocks. And then if they need to order more, they have my Amazon account, they can go in, place an order. Gotcha. Yeah. That's cool. That would never have thought of that. So for that, what's the typical cost and length for that type of stuff? And they're doing a bowl. Be fairies because I buy everything in bulk, right? Like, even when it comes to shampoos and shower gels and stuff, I buy always the Amazon brand. The Amazon brand seems to be the least expensive, and if you have, I like the big containers, and then poured in the little shampoo bottles versus buying an individual plastic bottles. Yeah. I try to do everything in bulk. Nice. What's that? Do you have like a range? I know it's variable costs. It's love. Yeah. I don't. Per unit? Yeah. No, no. Across all, I guess per unit. Yeah. Because three bucks. That's like four bucks. Yeah. I have so many units now. Yeah. It just depends. We have a locked closet at each property too, so we only put out like a couple of rolls of toilet paper. Yeah. It might take us to the road. Yeah. We give people like the starting essentials now before it was just a free for all. So we're definitely spending less than we were what I was in the beginning. Yeah. I've adjusted because I've seen, you know, what's happening? I'm like, okay, we got to make some small changes here, right? And save some money. Okay. That was an interesting tangent. Thank you. So lead scraping. I understand. I guess I'll go a little deeper on the call, but lead scraping in general. Are they just like every apartment complex in the book? Is there like a specific location that like what do you, what would disqualify something? So what I usually do is I usually look at the revenue data for the city first. So I have it broken down by zip code. So in Miami, let's use Miami as an example, I'll see which zip code makes the most money. And then where do you find that? I have a software called Profima but it's essentially air DNA. The air DNA has a lot of air DNA code is the gain data on key set for short term rentals. They have a lot of bad data in there and he kind of confusing. There's a lot of stuff to look at in there. So there's a service called profit mouse, which I use where the guy extracts the good data and puts it into simple to read spreadsheets. Essentially, I'll pull up Miami. It'll be listed by bedrooms. How much they make by zip and by zip codes. So I can see a three bedroom in this zip code makes this much amount of money, right? And then I basically find the zip codes that make the most amount of money and tell my VA to prospect those first profit maps, yeah, maps, profit maps that they call cool. Wow. That's interesting. And so that's where they probably are scraping, like looking for good locations, good areas. You're saying zip code to VA is so much like fine area. I do that. So you'll do this. I tell them, hey, call this zip code today. So any of this is any apartment complex in this zip yeah. And then he'll scrape all the apartment complexes or condo buildings, anything for lease. And he'll put it in like a spreadsheet or Monday.com and just go through them, start calling them all. Wow. And then on that call, is there anything that's your, I guess you're using the language of corporate, which is a corporate or releasing, corporate leasing kind of being like vague on what you're doing. You're not very closing. Hey, I wanted to Airbnb arbitrage because I might turn people away at first and have the relationship. Yeah. And he like read flags that you read into like, have you ever like had a problem with the landlord? Like where it's like they were bad landlord? Not really. I have a couple property management companies that aren't as great as I'd like them to be. Like there's a lot of maintenance issues. They're slow to, you know, address things in Texas. We have a lot of pest control issues. Yeah. What about a fob? I know most apartment complexes are like, you have to fob to get into the building. Yeah. So I don't have any like high-rise condos that have like that security at the front. Most of mine are like, you know, one story, two story apartment style complex. Facing the outside. The doors are kissing outside. Yeah. Yeah, like that. Okay. Okay. So that's pretty so we don't have any fobs. Would that be like a, like, that would probably be pretty hard to like there's a couple companies that deal with that. I think when it's called key cafe, you can put like a box in the parking structure and people can go up and you give them a. Yeah. And a lot of them and a lot of essentially. Okay. Easy saw. Yeah. Right there. I was telling myself without some either lock boxers, a service like that. We'll do. Okay. What you needed to do. Okay. Great. Interesting. Okay. And then basically they're just like vetting it. This is a possibility if like what they're, these people's like standards are if they've ever done it before. And basically if it's something that they've done before, they already have like subletting allowed. It's a hot lead. You give them a ring and you're ready to take action basically. Yeah. Cool. Pretty subjective. Like at the end of the day, if they want to let you in, they'll let you in or if they're literal like regulation, yeah, it's all going to do. It's building dependent, right? So what you can do when you're first starting, if you, you know, maybe don't have that income to show or you've got some bad credit or something like that. Look for buildings that have a ton of vacancy because buildings like that, they need it. Or yeah, they're going to be more willing to take a risk on you to fill apartments. Okay. Fascinating. So it's pretty subjective. You can like sell the guy and like just sell yourself. Like I said, I've had so many calls and were like get for my units that they've never even verified income or asked for any sort of history. Gotcha. So just building out the system of consistently, how many like apartments do you think you could do a month right now? Like if you were like, if you had like endless leads, like what's the most you could take on at a time? I already 40 years. I think I could, I really think I could do whatever I put my mind to, right? Like it's, it's just, it's just your, your limits. You create your own limits. So furniture, right? Like furnishing. You have biggest time consuming part, no? Yeah. Like you're going in there, scoping it out, so what would look good, shipping every, how do you buy furniture? Yeah. Basically Amazon, Ikea, Walmart, you're going to get everything fair. You're going to get everything shipped in boxes and then you're going to basically like build it all. Yeah. So you can do it a couple of different ways. If you have like a singular home or unit, you can just ship it direct to the house. You don't have your person on site, but in the house, start building it. If you're doing like five, 10 units in the same city or complex, probably the best way to do it is to get a storage unit and have everything shipped to the storage unit. And then on the day your lease starts, hire guys with trucks to come to get us, yeah, bring it all to the unit, start building it. Do you build the furniture yourself? No. It's like crakes us people or like, it's like task rabbit, task rabbit, craigslist, referrals. What would you make the listing on that just like looking for someone to install furniture? You can just go on task rabbit, task rabbit, there's hundreds of them and literally hire them. It's furniture, that's like a thing. Yeah. Builders, furniture builders. Yep. Okay. Cool. This is awesome. What's your social media? It's agent right on Instagram. Okay. Great. All in all last name, W-R-I-G-H-D-G. Awesome. All in all those below. But go follow him. That was sauce outside of Airbnb arbitrage. What do you have? So I kind of started at the bottom with real estate. I also should probably mention that I never graduated from high school. I went right from right from dropping out of high school to getting my real estate license. I graduated as a realtor while working like other full time jobs. So basically real estate. It's a hard time for a long time. So eventually I built up enough clientele and business to do it full time. I started taking my commissions from real estate, putting it into long term investments, buying my first house, buying rental properties, started flipping homes. So basically the full real estate, yeah, you back drum. Whole road. Yeah. And then basically found Airbnb arbitrage and just realized that I wanted to stop purchasing long term investments because you're tying up, you know, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars in making like no cash flow. Yeah. And interest rates are crazy. So I saw the arbitrage ball and was like, I can make a lot of cash flow doing this. So do you have like, you said you have a, how many, you have actual rental units that you owe? Yeah. So I have 35 units that I own that are rented to long-term tenants. So you own 35 where you have like a mortgage on them basically. Yeah. They're like different multi-family properties like some of them have or units, some of them up 12 units. Like town homes or. Yeah. Like you flexes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So you actually own those where you're kind of building up like the equity value. You got it. So it's the long term real estate play, you know, paid out, paying down a mortgage and banking on appreciation. So did you see, did you do that first or are these like in tandem? Yeah. I did that first. So you went like the traditional real estate huge way and if I could go back, I would do it the opposite way. Yeah. Because like creating the cash flow first is what's going to allow you to buy the long-term assets. And the beard industry seems much lower with that's a rear arbitrage. So but I do have a question. Do you now since you discovered this recently, are you taking this cash flow to then buy more rental properties? Right now I've just been using the cash flow to keep growing the arbitrage business. Yeah. So you see more opportunity there. I see a ton of opportunity there and like I said, the barrier, the capital to the capital I need to start new units is very low and I can get it back quickly, right? So I can take five grand, you know, get it back in two months and then that unit will make me five out of two thousand bucks every month. Good. Hi. Good. And then I take that money and I'm probably going to invest it into longer term stuff or even building like some sort of unique Airbnb's, I'm looking in Costa Rica right now. I can live there. Yeah. One of my students actually, no, I don't live there. Okay. Sorry. I'm going to, I want to build an Airbnb there. Okay. I have a student that actually built an Airbnb there and I stayed out it and it was, it was an amazing experience. There's a lot of potential in some of these other countries, even outside, like vacation rentals basically like, yeah, actually smart. Let's play. Could you play like devil's advocate? Sure. Like because you do both sides. Yes. Like what would be the cons of Airbnb arbitrage compared to that? Actually, like owning the rentals or just in general, like what are potential like risk? The cons is, it's, it's a little more of an active business, especially when you're starting off. You've got to set up the units. You've got to build the teams. You've got to get systems and structures in place. So you're going through all that at the beginning where the long-term real estate play is basically just put up the cash by the property, find some tenants and set it and forget. Maybe I have a hand to give me. Yeah. Or have a property management company deal with it and you ever hear about it. Yeah. Right. So Airbnb arbitrage is a little bit more active at the beginning. But can, can be 100% passive if you build the proper systems and hire people to do all the tasks for you. Yeah. And you don't even have to really worry about interest rates or anything like that because you know what your rate is. It's going to be a part. Yeah. That's so interesting. You know, market risks this, like you don't know AI is going to take over how. Once you're paid back realistically, even if something were to happen in a market, like say like in New York, they brought in like a full Airbnb band. You're paid back so quick by the time they introduce a band. It's still going to take a year or two where they actually put it into effect. So you're already well paid back by then. You know, get paid money. You can always move the furniture. You get the furniture back. Right. Right. That's your main investment. Right. So there's no, like that's the only look at it. There's literally no risk. Like you're low and could go under, like you don't have guests, you could, they could take that money back out the gate where this place, you just walk away from your lease or there's some, there's usually an exit clause, like maybe any like one month rent or something like that. It's not going to ruin your life. No. You might not hurt a little bit this short term. But of course, I need. We're going to hurt. Yeah. I'd compared to how much the house would hurt. Yeah. I know some people get smoke right now. That own a bunch of real. Oh, yeah. Two thousand over leverage. Tencent of millions of dollars equity gone. Exactly. Right. I think that we had the, we had the, all the COVID stuff happen and, you know, travel shut down and all that, right? And now people are traveling a lot more and I think it's going to be like that for years to come. Man, you're crushing it. I appreciate you coming up here and sharing this with everybody. Yeah. Thanks for having me. This was so much fun. All right, guys, I put the links in the description. Go follow them, call them. I'm in. Thank you so much. Thank you.