Air Force Officer: “A UFO Shut Down 10 Nukes in Seconds...” (ft. Bob Salas)

He's frightened. He's really frightened. He's screaming into the phone. They said, sir, we got all the guards out. They've got their weapons pointed at this red-orange pulsating light. It's huge. I went over to talk to my commander because now I'm thinking there's something serious going on up there. Before I could tell him about the phone calls, we'd get a big horn go off. One of the missiles went off alert status. Or it went from green to red. No go. Can't launch it. And right after that one went down, all of them went down. One at a time. I'd already been trying to get in touch with you and interview you. And then this kind of ridiculous Wall Street Journal piece comes out by this guy named Joel Schechtman. It just seems like a really botched kind of attempt at discrediting you entirely. Why would they come after me? Well, nuclear deterrence is the. backbone of our national security. A short time ago, the U.S. military carried out massive precision strikes. You have Xi and Putin closer than they've ever been. Iran and Israel is really a proxy war for this larger global conflict. You have Pakistan having nukes. Think about the amount of al-Qaeda still in northern Pakistan. That could be a failed state at any moment. I am gravely concerned about the situation in Pakistan. If there was ever an explicit disclosure moment, it might occur. Around us being on the brink. If you have another kind of Cuban missile crisis. Between September of 66 and March of 67, we lost 30 missiles to UFO activity. 30. 30. Our next guest was a witness of one of the most spectacular UFO nuclear-related cases we've ever had. He was stationed at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana. He was a missile launch officer there, deep underground, monitoring a group of 10-minute-man missiles. In March of 1967, while on duty, he received a call from an extremely frightened topside guard reporting unidentified flying objects. Glowing red lights hovering above the base. You won't believe what happened next. But the UFO appeared to interact with the nuclear weapons. If this were an isolated incident, it would be one thing. It's not. It's a repeating pattern. UFOs show up constantly. around nuclear weapons and civilian energy grids. The great journalist Robert Hastings has documented 167 Q-cleared witnesses in his great book, UFOs and Nukes. The link between UFOs and nuclear weapons is ubiquitous and widespread. And our next guest's sighting at Malmstrom is one of four different sightings that I am aware of in and around this particular Montana base. This isn't an anomaly. It's a real scientific pattern for those earnestly engaging with the data. For the ones who won't just reflexively look away due to the stigma. Just last month, the Wall Street Journal wrote a hit piece attempting to discredit our next guest. They claimed that this whole event he witnessed was due to an experimental test of a non-nuclear EMP. They cited an EMP model that wasn't even operational in 1967. And claimed that this device was used on our own nuclear weapons with officers like him present. The article made no sense and it really didn't even make an attempt to make any sense. But it was right. It was written by a journalist that says that conspiracies around JFK's death are now fueling a belief in the quote-unquote deep state. This journalist also just wrote an article railing against a PSYOP that marginalized Chinese COVID vaccines. Suffice it to say, I think we have very different worldviews. But as you'll see in this interview with my next guest, history might not repeat, but it certainly rhymes. In 1967, they also tried to cover this case up using some very bad faith tactics. Luckily for us. Our next guest has documented the hypocrisy the entire way. And even though the Wall Street Journal wouldn't let this 85-year-old veteran publish a full response to defend himself, he does so very eloquently here. So without further ado, I'd like to welcome this week's American Alchemist, First Lieutenant Robert Salas. I'm here with Bob Salas. I'm so grateful to be here. I appreciate you having me. I've been kind of citing your experience for the last two or three years on my show. And so it's really cool to finally be in person and be able to, you know, hear it directly from you. And this couldn't be more. It's more timely because I had already been trying to get in touch with you and interview you. Clearly, you know, he's collaborating very closely, probably too closely with a guy named Sean Kirkpatrick, who's the former head of the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office. And it just seems like a really botched kind of attempt at discrediting you entirely and basically saying, that there was an EMP that was wheeled up to Malmstrom Air Force Base where you were first lieutenant. You were working in the launch control facility. And that is what explains these 10 nuclear missiles going down. So anyways, it's very timely. And I'm very grateful to be having this conversation with you. I'm happy to talk about this. Yes, I think there was a deliberate attempt to discredit my story. And I've got some. I've got some theories as to why that was done. What are your theories as to why? Or why don't we do this? Why don't we just get into the core details first of what happened? And then, you know, a lot's going to be referencing that. And then from there, we can get into theories as to why people are trying to sabotage. So in 1967, I was assigned to a two-man crew. My commander was Fred Mywald. We were both lieutenants at the time. And we were assigned to Oscar Flight, which is near Louisville. And we were assigned to Roy Montana, which is about 100 miles to the east of Great Falls and Malmstrom Air Force Base, located near Great Falls. So at this site, we go underground to what we call the Launch Control Center. And that's where we have all the equipment down there to monitor and launch missiles if necessary. So on this particular evening, we're going to be flying to Roy Montana, which is about 100 miles to the east of Great Falls. So on this particular evening, March 24th, 1967, my commander was taking a rest break. We had a little cut down there. I was in charge of the entire facility. I get a call sometime in the evening. I don't know when exactly. It was probably close to 9 p.m. or so. It was dark out. And the topside guard, which we call a flight security controller, called down and said, Sir, I've been seeing some strange lights in the sky overhead, directly over us. They're strange because they're flying very fast, stopping in midair, reversing course, doing 90-degree turns, no engine noise. And, sir, these are not airplanes. Airplanes can't do what these lights are doing. So I even said, you mean like UFOs? Because we had actually had newspaper accounts in the Great Falls Tribune of people like farmers and citizens seeing strange lights in the sky that week. Yeah, wasn't there a truck driver and a pilot? A police officer, if I'm not mistaken, who had also seen. Yeah, we'll get to that. That's an important part of this. We can talk about it now if you want. On the same night, and this, I think, was about 7.30 to 8 in the evening, a truck driver was driving through the town of Belt, Montana, which was about 35 miles to the southeast. East of Great Falls. And he looks over out his window and sees a bright light that's pacing him, going the same speed, and it's actually blinking at him. He finds it a little strange. It was just a big white ball of light to him. He stops the truck and. And gets out and watches the light land in a ravine, a large ravine. He goes over there and takes a look, sees it, and then he calls the highway patrol. He wants to get somebody else to look at this thing. And a highway patrolman comes out. He also sees the light. The light comes back up. Thank you. flies off at high speed, and then comes back while the highway patrol was there. They then call the county sheriffs. They come out. They inspect a little bit of the area where this object landed. They find some broken branches. They all decide to call the Air Force base. We happened to have what was called a UFO officer at the base at the time because of the Condon investigation. One of the Air Force to identify certain officers at certain bases to help them with their investigation. And so they identified this particular guy, a man by the name of Lieutenant Colonel Lewis Chase, who was also a base operations officer. So Chase comes out. I don't know if he saw the object or not at that time, but he decides that they can't bring a helicopter in that night because they're not trained for night operations in that area, and so he wants to wait until the morning. And in the meantime, there are reports at Malmstrom Air Force Base that objects are seen on radar. Objects are seen by airmen at the base. Again, bright white light flying around Malmstrom Air Force Base. And so Chase decides he needs to report all this, and he does in a telegram to Air Force headquarters and also reports to Edward Condon. And so he does. And so he reports to Edward Condon. I write a couple of reports. I've got copies of them. And they take the statement of the truck driver, et cetera. And by the way, in the meantime, my missiles are shut down. So you have missile security officers who are topside. They're calling down and they're saying they're seeing. No security officers. These are airmen, you know, the non-commissioned officers, NCOs. Okay. And they're responsible for the security of the launch control facility. In other words, and that's what I told him. So after the first call, we just hung up because there was no point in talking about lights in the sky. I didn't think. So you were like, what are you talking about? And you hung up and you were like. Basically, yeah, I wasn't too interested in what he had to say after that because, you know, he could have been seeing little stars up there. I don't know. But then five minutes later, he calls back. And this time he's frightened. He's babbling. I got to calm him down. And finally, I calm him down. He says, sir, we got all the guards out there. They've got their weapons pointed at this red-orange light, pulsating light. It's huge. It's, you know, I think he said 40 or something feet long. It was hard to see inside. I said, try to look inside the light and see if there's a solid object in there. He said, it's really difficult because it's so bright, but it looks like there's some kind of a solid object in there, oval-shaped, is what he said. And I said. And then he said, what do I do, sir? You know, I basically told him, I don't remember the exact words, but I basically told him to make sure the facility is secure, that nobody enters the fenced area. You know, basically it's your responsibility, right? And so he hung up. He first said. A guard got injured, and I got to go. The injury I'll talk about later, but it had nothing to do with the UFO. So he hung up. First thing I did is I looked over at our board, our status board. It showed the status of each missile, right? And, yeah, all the missiles were green at that time, ready to go, ready to launch at any time. I went over to talk to my commander, Fred Miles. I was taking a rest break. Woke him up and started to tell him about the phone calls. And because now I'm thinking there's something serious going on out there. That guy was really scared, really frightened. And before I could tell him about the phone calls, we'd get a big horn go off. One of the missiles went off alert status, or it went from green to red. No go. Can't launch it. Had that ever happened in your career thus far? I was there for three years. One of them may have gone down for some power problem. We had triple power redundancy. But anyway, but nothing like multiple shutdowns. And right after that, one went down. All of them went down. One at a time. As you know, I'm always on the hunt for things that help me stay sharp, focused, and full of energy while I'm diving into life's mysteries and making this show happen. And I've got to say, Mudwater has completely transformed my mornings. Back in the day, I used to struggle with that post-coffee crash. And let's not even get into the caffeine jitters. Mudwater gave me the smooth, steady energy I was missing. It's packed with functional mushrooms like lion's mane, chaga, and reishi. Plus turmeric and. And cacao, all working together to keep me focused, calm, and grounded. Honestly, it's like coffee went on a yoga retreat and came back zen. 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So we jump up, go through our checklist. And we also had two of the launch facilities. The launch facilities are where the missiles are actually located. They're about a mile away, a mile or two. But at two of them, we had incursion lights, meaning it's possible someone or something was trying to enter those facilities where the missiles were. So I got on the horn or the phone and called upstairs. First thing I asked about was this bright red glowing object. And he said, it just took off, so it's gone. But it was there. It was there when the missiles went down. But anyway, I sent guards out there. And they again saw an object above two of the launch facilities. Again, a bright, bright light hovering just above the facilities. We brought those guys back to where we were. And they lost radio contact on the way back. And they were all dead. Strange. Anyway, my wall called wing command post, report our incident, a shutdown, requesting maintenance crews to come out because we had a way of querying the system. We would get an audio feedback of what was wrong with each missile. They were all reading guidance and control system. We were all reading guidance and control system. So we thought, well, okay, we got to send a team out there to restart the missiles, each one, and retarget them. We had to check the targeting again. But after that call, he hangs up. He turns to me and he says, the same thing happened at another flight. Now, I thought he meant that evening. But what he meant to say was that it happened before. Maybe four, eight days earlier. That was what we've referred to now as the echo. flight incident we were at oscar flight uh-huh and so before before we get into the uh echo yeah go for it yeah but the the reason the belt sighting was important uh was because uh when robert jameson was called at home to come in to the base he was asleep he was called he said around 10 10 30 in the evening uh told to come into the base uh because there were missile shutdowns do you need to work on yeah in march in 1967 i got a call saying a missile went off alert in oscar flight that's all the information was given they said a missile went off alert so i had called my team together we went down to the hangar i no sooner walked into the hangar you and a friend of mine walked up to me and says have you heard what happened no uh i just got here he says well a missile a ufo was reported over roy montana which is where oscar flight was and all missiles went off alert and i said it's not possible couldn't happen so i went to a place called job control just to see just to confirm this and sure enough on job control they have a wall and they have green lights for all the missiles that are going to go off so i went to a place called job control and i told them that all the missiles are on alert we had 200 missiles at the time except for one corner all 10 missiles were off alert all 10 the whole flight was off alert all red and so then i said yeah they were off alert it doesn't happen and he was also told that we are on lockdown right now because there's too much ufo activity going on like i mentioned there were overflights of mouse from air force base he assigned me four missiles to restart he says go ahead get your team ready but stay here don't leave the hangar yet until we're sure that all the activity out there has ceased and there's nothing else going on then we can release you so i stayed around for the hangar for a couple of hours and then just before we were released we had to go into a special briefing normally we go into a briefing where they give you your what your job is like role control and all that kind of stuff and i said road conditions at the time weather conditions anything else we may need to know this time they brought us into a special briefing and they told us there's ufos out in the area here's what you have to do if you're on your road and you see a ufo let us know by radar and go to the nearest launch control facility and okay if you're breaking into the site just break this withdraw from the site let us give us a call and let us know what's happening you see a ufo however if you're in the site and you're doing your work i was to take myself my team members and all our targeting tapes take them downstairs into the silo close the silo and we all take a guard with us we have to leave him on top nothing happened on the way out there and targeting or the restarts i had four of them and they went rather smoothly missiles went right up as if nothing had happened to them and i came back and then it was given another briefing i was told i wasn't supposed to tell about talk about this but i am coming out now but jameson was told about the belt incident the same person that told me that all 10 missiles went off alert also told me that there was a ufo that went down into a canyon near a little town not far from omstrom called belt montana it's a can there was a canyon there and there was a ufo trapped in the canyon and uh yeah yeah right right but he told me i go to the command post they sent him a command a command post in the uh colonel's briefing room so i went over there and i was heard what they what they were looking at they had a radio contact with the people out in the field and they were telling me about the lights and now there's blue lights now there's green lights i was looking at the uh ufo down at the bottom of the canyon now they were going the canyon is too steep to send men down in a night this is at nighttime walls are too steep to send men down at night or even a helicopter down through there so they're going to take in them as soon as daylight comes they're going to take some helicopters and bring go down in there and i found out later yeah as soon as daylight came they sent the helicopters and this ufo just went right through the helicopters and out between the helicopters and out that's amazing so you have bob jameson who is a he's a targeting officer is that right right and then who else came out publicly alongside you to test to testify to this ufo event well eventually i got a hold of my commander who was down there with me he was the crew commander fred mywald he had retired a full colonel um had a distinguished career in uh strategic air command uh headquarters uh but of course he verified the essentials of the story he didn't remember at the time when i first contacted him exactly how many missiles had gone off alert but he remembered we did lose missiles uh during ufo sightings did you record that conversation or is it public or is it just you went to i recorded it it's on my website that's amazing spiral galaxy dot org check it out all right here's the sequence i remember i remember i received a call first and the security guard said i've seen some ufos up here flying around and i said uh forget it you know i didn't believe them i kind of hung up on them and then a little while later i don't know how long it was maybe five ten minutes maybe longer they called back and guys sounded real scared said there was one just outside the front gate and uh he's and he also said i recall that uh one of the other guards had gotten injured in some way i i don't i don't think it was from the ufo i think it was from uh trying to climb the fence or something like that uh and then i hung up or he hung up because he had to go his guard got injured and then and then i believe you were either getting up or i woke you up and then some of our missiles started setting down is that right is that about how you remember it right we got the security alarms and uh yeah probably just a couple of uh sites yeah okay so i remember the two guards that had gone out to one of the sites uh finally got back scared to death we had to relieve them yeah oh you mean uh our guards yeah oh i didn't know that yeah broken patrol type oh i see it gone out to one of the sites uh on the ls they're on the way back they lost radio contact and we ended up having to send them back to base earlier i'm not sure what happened i don't think they ever returned to uh guard duty and what were they scared about well they had seen these some crazy things then oh they did yeah have they reported that to you they reported it to the top side guy oh the top side guy that's right okay okay okay well interesting what you think yeah does anybody at the time after this experience come up with a prosaic explanation as to what's happened or is everybody basically uh on the sort of consensus view that there was ufos appearing and that ostensibly there's some connection between the ufos appearing above the base and these 10 missiles going down there were uh one of the documents we received from the air force was a telegram or telex about the echo flight shutdown right it names two individuals by name that worked for boeing aircraft the sac headquarters uh wanted people to do a complete investigation of what happened they used the words this is of grave concern because we don't have any idea what happened i've got that telex you know this was no test there was no test involved here sac headquarters uh demanded that boeing do an investigation and sac for everybody is a strategic air command that's right yeah no so they had they viewed this as a genuine ufo event taking down well because there were witnesses uh to the objects uh being seen over over the echo flight and also in in the case of the echo flight they had security guards and maintenance people already on site they had stayed the night because they were going to work on those missiles and they reported to feagle walt feagle uh ufos overhead or lights that they couldn't explain overhead uh when the missiles went down the strike team that went out one of the two claimed that they saw something over the site how did they describe it He just had a large round object directly over the LS. 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He contacts Roy Craig, the chief investigator for Condon. Tells him all about it. Gives him details. Gives him names, dates, places, et cetera. Phone numbers of his people that can confirm the UFO's connection. And Craig says, okay, I'm going to go out. I'm going to Malmstrom and check this out. So he goes to Malmstrom. And I've got this on audio tape also, by the way. He talks to Louis Chase, the base officer, the base UFO officer. The same guy that went out to Belt, Montana, saw the object out there, wrote two messages, one to U.S. Air Force headquarters and another one to. Condon, about the activity. And in one of those, he says, I went to the base command post, or the wing command post, rather, and talked to the officer in charge there. This was the same officer that we had reported our incident to. And he said, I coordinated with him on the UFO activity. He's got this in writing. When Craig goes out there to talk to him, Chase, he denies it. The following interview conducted by Roy Craig is with Lieutenant Colonel Louis D. Chase, who is chief of the operations division at Malmstrom Air Force Base, Montana. The interview is being conducted by Lieutenant Colonel Louis D. snooping around and putting in their report that UFOs had shut down missiles. Do you think somebody got to him? Did he have some ulterior motive? Why would he want to deny the committee that he's supposedly working for access to an event that seems like it's their mandate to investigate? Because the Air Force organized this whole continent investigation as a whitewash. It was whitewashed even before they got started. There was a famous letter written by the deputy to Cotton, Robert Lowe, who wrote a memo stating that there was going to appear to be a scientific investigation, but indeed they would find nothing. And then there was another letter that Chase had written after having a big meeting in June of 67 with other base UFO officers and the Condon investigative team stating that the wording, the final wording for the Condon investigation would read, you know, nothing to see here. Yeah. I believe there are letters, too, between Colonel Robert Hippler of the Air Force and Condon. And basically, Hippler's saying, like, I want you to show that this was all a waste of time and money. He's talking about Blue Book. And Condon's sort of complying with that. So it seemed like a kind of a hit job from the start. it was a whitewash yeah yeah so in fact yeah it was hippler when uh after this meeting which i've between craig and lewis craig went to low and said maybe we ought to get the report on their investigation and uh low said later on he replied he said i've already talked to hippler Hitler said this is probably going to be too high, highly classified for us to look at. And plus, Hitler told him they think, the Air Force thinks, that EMP from nuclear testing was the cause of these shutdowns. Really? Yes, really. Back then? Back then. Oh. I've got it in writing. That's wild. Interesting. Interesting. Any specifics on like the model or anything? When I read that, when we read that, my investigator, James Klotz, who's a co-author of that first book we wrote, A Gentleman Still Living, We checked with the Department of Energy, who was in charge of, well, cognizant of nuclear testing being done in the Nevada desert, right, at the time. There were no nuclear tests on March 16th or March 24th. So it couldn't have been EMP from a nuclear test. Yeah. And that's, I think, you know, I got into this whole squabble online or whatever, where people are saying there were EMPs at Starfish Prime and stuff. where people are saying there were EMPs at Starfish Prime and Or whatever. And there are EMPs that are caused by nuclear detonations. But my understanding is that operational non-nuclear EMPs weren't, maybe at most they were, you know, undergoing extremely preliminary investigation at DOE sensitive sites, but they weren't being used, let alone on our own nukes, live nukes. There's no way. Absolutely not. In fact, in our book, again, Fated Giant, we talk about references, we list the references, actually, people can look them up, of testing that was done on our kind of equipment, but it was done at a base, like Space Missile Systems Organization in San Francisco. I remember, you know, Hill Air Force Base in Utah, but it was not operational equipment. I mean, the equipment wasn't operational, but it was the type of equipment we had, right? They did want to do authentic tests and to see what impact was. Now, we're talking about something like the production of 6 million volts. 6 million volts of electricity, an EMP discharge. We're also talking about equipment that was not mobile. In order to produce this EMP, they had to set up a superstructure to hold the generating device that would fire 6 million volts. 6 million volts. And that took time to build. I mean, it took at least three days, from what I understand. Yeah, you can't install that in secret. Even in the diagram in the Wall Street Journal, it was like a 60-foot test stand or whatever was required to uphold the EMP. And the idea that that would get wheeled up to the gate without, you know, any of these, you know, officers understanding that the EMP was there and not being freaked out about some UFO. Well, they would have reported it. The guards upstairs would have reported it. They would have reported any activity like that. Yeah, it makes no sense. And it's interesting to see the Wall Street Journal use the same cover story as Robert Hippler used back then. That's, you know, kind of interesting. Well, kind of. Hippler stated to Lowe, apparently, and I've got this in writing, a handwritten note by Robert Lowe, that he talked to Hippler. And Hippler told him, the Air Force thinks that EMP from nuclear… Testing was the cause of the shutdown. That's even better, because that's like, it's like Roswell, where they have, you know, it's like a weather balloon. And then it's like these, you know, Huntington's disease children using, you know, an experimental Nazi craft. It's like they changed the story like five times. So it sounds like back then it was a nuclear detonation. Now it's a test EMP. The exact model of which cited by the Wall Street Journal wasn't actually tested until 71 and ready. Until 1973. Right. So it's absolutely crazy. Interesting. Yeah, they got to get their story straight. They're going to debunk well. Boeing also did a bench test on what's called the logic coupler. Okay. The logic coupler is, think of it as an onboard computer that would take data from onboard instruments after the launch of the missile. Again, an inertial guidance system. We didn't have GPS satellites up there guiding this thing on target. Right? It had to compute how well it was doing to get on target, right? In flight. And this logic coupler would help with that processing. Yeah. So Boeing took that piece of hardware and did a bench test and were able to mobilize… Momentarily cycle it off by injecting a certain energy or electrical input, certain frequency, voltage, duration, and basically cause it to malfunction momentarily. Right. Momentarily. And cause… Cause the guidance system to shut down. Interesting. So they suggested it as a possible cause of the failure mode, guidance and control system failure. However, they had no idea on how that could be injected into each missile separately within seconds and shut each missile down so quickly. Right. Because, number one, we had what's called a, these large cable, about eight to nine inch in diameter. They were triply shielded. They went from the location we were, the capsule, underground for another mile or so. But they were triply shielded against EMI, electromagnetic interference. And so they did say… In this report that they think was an externally caused, it was an external signal that caused the shutdowns. But they could not explain how that signal got into the system. Yeah. So Boeing goes in, they test it, and presumably they're using whatever state-of-the-art methods exist at the time as far as shutting down nukes. And they're going directly after the accelerometers, these inertial… And they're going directly after the accelerometers, these inertial mass units. And they can show that they could do it in one, but that doing it simultaneously in ten is impossible. Right. And they admit to being puzzled afterwards. Exactly. They're brought in as consultants. They are paid, presumably, to, you know, success for them is explaining it in a prosaic fashion. That's how they're judged. And they're unable to do that. Yeah. They were identified. These two, the individuals that did this testing were identified by SAC headquarters. By name. They wanted those two people to do these, you know, to do part of the investigation. But we were in contact. James Klotz and I made contact with them, talked to them. And they said that they couldn't explain how that signal could have possibly have gotten in there. Hey, everyone. Jesse here. Let's talk about something a lot of us quietly deal with, hair loss. This is something that… Messes with your confidence more than you'd expect. Okay. You might be wondering, Jesse, you clearly don't suffer from this. It's true. The biggest issue I face is hat hair. I actually have very thick hair. But one of my good friends deals with hair loss. So when iRestore sent me their iRestore Elite, I gifted it to him. 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For a limited time only, our listeners get a huge discount on iRestore Elite when you use code JESSE, J-E-S-S-E, at iRestore.com. code jesse j-e-s-s-e for our show's exclusive discounts on the iris store elite please support our show and tell them we sent you hair loss is frustrating you don't have to fight it alone thanks to iris store how did you after that did you live your life differently outside of having experienced this highly anomalous event and probably being questioned about it and wanting to get the message out that maybe we're we're not alone uh you know outside of that did it change your perspective on life or you know change your view your world view in any kind of profound ways well um i lost confidence in the integrity of the air force after that for sure you know i had planned uh a career in the air force and after this i wasn't quite so sure i wanted to do that and so it changed it in that way yeah and malmstrom is no stranger to incidents like these right so eight days before you mentioned the echo flight incident what exactly happened there And I echo flight Walt Fiegel again, a lieutenant at the time, later a colonel, retired. As far as I know, still living. Talked to him about a year ago, I think. But he was in charge of the facility, and one of the missiles gets shut down. One of the missiles where he had guards and security, well, maintenance people and security people out at two of the launch facilities. They had stayed overnight because they were going to start early the next morning and do some kind of modification to these missiles. He calls out there and says, you guys aren't supposed to do anything without my permission. And they said, we didn't do anything. By the way, these objects are hovering just above us. And at first he couldn't believe what they were saying, but very shortly after that, all 10 of his missiles went down. Wild. So very similar. Similar. And then I want to tell you about an incident that happened in 1966, September of 1966. In 1966, at Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota. Not in Montana. This is just North Dakota. Again, another witness has come forward, a man by the name of David Schindel, who relieved a crew. But before they relieved the crew, he talked to the security people upstairs who told him that UFOs were seen. Over the facility the night before. When they got down to relieve the crew, all 10 missiles had been shut down. After entering the capsule, our eyes were immediately transfixed on the launch control console, which showed that all missiles were off alert and unlaunchable. We had never seen such a thing before. The outgoing crew briefed us on the wild events that transpired overnight and indicated that they were not safe. And indicated that the missiles malfunctioned at the time the object was hovering directly above the capsule and next to the main gate. And again, this was as a result of the UFO activity above the facility. So, we're talking between September of 66 and March of 67. We lost 30 missiles to UFO activity. It's wild. Yeah. 30. 30. That's pretty insane. And Malmstrom itself, I mean, even Robert Hastings, who wrote this, you know, probably the authoritative chronicle of all of the UFO events when it comes to nuclear weapons, UFO and nukes, great book. He was a janitor at Malmstrom Air Force Base, I believe, in 67. And he, I guess this like radar operator had taken him under his wing and was teaching him about radar theory. And brought him over. They said they were tracking unknowns at the time. One night, and as best as I can tell, it was the second half of March of 67, was emptying trash cans and pushing a broom. And he motioned me over to his scope. And he pointed, he said, we're tracking. And he probably said unknowns. That's the formal term for unidentified objects. I saw five blips in the sort of northeast quadrant. Of his radar scope. And then he thinks that that might have been around the same time as your incident. It could have been. I believe his father worked in that facility. That's right. Yeah. This was part of the NORAD organization, right? Yep. That would monitor the skies for possible incoming, you know, bombers or whatever. And for the U.S. But, yeah, that's true. And then I believe in 1993, there's a now-retired missile technician, a guy named John Mills, who was headed, I think, with, you know, some four other guys. They had left the base and they were headed towards Malmstrom. They saw a UFO hovering around Malmstrom. They get back to the base and apparently everybody there said that the base had been swarmed. And so, and then there's even, there are other, there's a guy named Chris Langen, who's known for having this sort of theory of everything in physics, which, you know, maybe take that with a grain of salt. I don't know how real that is. But, you know, maybe he's got a big ego. I don't know if the theory is real. I don't think he's lying about the fact that he said he was driving past, you know, near Malmstrom and he sees a UFO right ahead. On the UFO thing, I was working for the Forest Service, not too far from Malmstrom Air Force Base. One day I was up there in a Forest Service pickup truck at a certain campground. And I was there and suddenly I look up and I say suddenly, it was just in the sky. I became aware that it was up there and I looked up. It was this huge spheroidal, you know, but elliptical, not a perfect spheroid, like a saucer that was turned partially on its side. So it just seems like there's a real pattern over time with Malmstrom. Even though the Air Force tried to get out of it in 1969, they even quoted the Condon investigation and said that we have no evidence that UFOs are a cause of national security concern. And therefore, we're going to shut down Blue Book. We're not going to be reporting to the public on UFO sightings. And we're probably not going to do much investigating ourselves. Well. So incidents continue to occur, you know, again, in 1975 at Malmstrom. There is a NORAD report of UFO sightings, again, over Malmstrom Missile Base. 1968. I've listed about 13 in my book, incidents involving nuclear weapons and UFOs. And. And when you did come out and go public, you've done interviews with Larry King and you've spoken at various conferences all over the world. Did you receive any backlash and did you experience any resistance about your testimony? I never have. That's pretty remarkable. Do you have a theory as to why? Because some of your colleagues who have gone public, people like Bob Jacobs, photo instrumentation specialist at Vandenberg in 64. He's experienced, obviously, a lot of reprisals. And, you know, took a career, such a career hit that they denied he ever even worked at Vandenberg and was, you know, even involved, you know, in the Air Force. You know, my I'm just speculating again. Why? Because I did sign a nondisclosure agreement. Which basically I violated when I started going public about my incident being an Oscar flight. I didn't find that out until 1998. 1986, when I finally contacted, I was able to contact my commander, Fred Mywald. And he told me we were not at Echo Flight. We were at Oscar Flight. I've been speaking about the Echo Flight incident as though it was mine because it was so similar to what I had recalled. But once he told me that, I realized I was in violation of the NDA. And I had to make a decision. And as to whether I should shut up, no longer talk about it, or keep going, keep talking about it. And I decided to keep going. Did they make you sign an NDA around this specific incident or just working really? Yes. And that's what everybody says. That's what Mario Woods says. That's what, you know, everybody who experiences the incident right after they make you sign an NDA. Right. And do you remember what the NDA said or like what that was like? Like who came up to you and said you have to sign? Yeah. Right after we were relieved by another crew, after our incident occurred, we were ordered back to the base to our squadron commander's office. Walked in there and first thing I asked, by the way, my squadron commander, who was an ex-World War II B-17 pilot, tough as nails. He was white as a sheet. And I asked him, what the hell happened there? You know, in our incident, was this some kind of an Air Force test to see, you know, how we'd respond or anything like that? He said, absolutely not. There was no test involved. He didn't know anything more than I did. And by the way, he introduced me to a man from AFOSI, Air Force Office of Special Investigation. It was in the office. And all he wanted was to have us sign a non-disclosure agreement. Right. I complained about that because we already had a bug top secret. You know, if they told us not to talk about this, we wouldn't, you know. But that seems like a recurring pattern is an Air Force officer, special investigation agent, always shows up around nuclear UFO incidents and then swears you to secrecy. Right, right. So that's, yeah, it just seems like this pattern. That's fascinating. They want to clamp down on witnesses. Are you familiar with, have you heard of the Pentacle Memo? Do you know what that is? No. So this was Jacques Vallée, who was kind of J. Allen Hynek's assistant, you know, Blue Book. Obviously, J. Allen Hynek is this, you know, Northwestern professor, astronomer. So Jacques Vallée is looking through the Blue Book files and he finds this thing called the Pentacle Memo, which is this guy named Howard Seacross, who is a guy who works at Battelle Memorial Institute. And he is writing, basically saying, like, we have all these sensitive sites around, around which UFOs are showing up regularly. And we know that these hotspots exist. And Battelle is going to do a more surgical, real investigation of these things. While basically, you know, Blue Book is going to go on doing its kind of front, front facing kind of BS PR job. And Jacques Vallée, and apparently this couldn't get brought up around the Robertson panel. Like there's, you're, you were not supposed to bring this, this memo up. And so Jacques Vallée goes to jail on Hynek privately. And says, did you know about this? Like, you know, are you, are you kind of complicit in basically concealing, you know, our, what's supposed to be this earnest UFO inquiry from this actually real vital investigation that's going on around, you know, nuclear sites across the U.S. And J. Allen Hynek kind of plays dumb and says, you know, I didn't know about it and stuff. But I do wonder sometimes, you know, especially when you hear this very coordinated effort that involves. Air Force Office of Special Investigations agents. Was there something underneath Blue Book, underneath the Codden, you know, commission that was very real about, you know, there was a real UFO investigation going on at the time. Oh, absolutely. No question about it. I mentioned that, you know, since probably 47, there's been an attempt to. Seriously cover up anything that was found related to UFOs, you know, such as craft that were retrieved or non-human intelligences that were retrieved. And those were studied and worked on in secret. Well, like you say, organizations like Blue Book were just kind of. A way to quell public excitement over this subject. Yeah. At what point do you think the Air Force made that decision to split off kind of, you know, this front facing facade, Blue Book, and then more vital investigations of UFOs? Was it around the Robertson panel in 1952, maybe? Okay. So in 1948, there was a. And this was the precursor to Blue Book. It was called Project Sign, right? People that were working on that had come up with enough information, pilot reports, et cetera, to conclude that these were extraterrestrial objects. They were not manufactured on Earth. And they wanted. And so the Air Force. The chief of staff, Hoyt Vandenberg, wanted a briefing. And so they produced a briefing for him called The Estimate of the Situation. It was a real document. It was seen by Ruppelt, who would be the next head of Blue Book. The first head of Blue Book, really, after Project Sign. And he read the thing and he could confirm. Confirmed in his book. I've got a copy of his book that he wrote, Ruppelt wrote. His report on the unidentified object. Yeah. And he confirmed that they had strong evidence that these were not aircraft that we knew how to build because of their abilities to maneuver, maneuvering abilities. And he confirmed. Confirmed this must have been from elsewhere off Earth. Yeah. Well, you had Nathan Twining writing in this 1947 memo to this guy, Brigadier Shulgrin. And he's saying, you know, UFOs are not visionary or fictitious. He even says in the postscript of the memo, we have within our means or within our knowledge, the ability to build these crafts. But if we were to do that, if, if, if directed, you know, these would need to basically look like the Manhattan Project. They need to take place in a wholly separate. Separate compartment from existing projects and, and, you know, kind of exist very, you know, sub Rosa and, and this sort of secret. But anyway, uh, Vandenberg, uh, didn't buy this estimate of the situation and, uh, basically informed Blue Book that, you know, they're full of it. They're, they're going to tap down on, uh, any, any idea. That, uh, these could be extraterrestrial. And, and so they changed the whole fabric of, uh, Blue Book, um, after that, that turned into a Project Grudge, I think it was called. Yeah. After Blue Book. Um, and that's when they started, uh, doing more disinformation. And, and again, from the Robertson panel to the director. So, uh, the objective was, um, let's keep an eye on UFO act, uh, groups that are looking at this, these reports, uh, let's infiltrate them. Uh, let's, you know, do whatever we can to keep the public from getting too excited about all this. Yeah. To this day. Right. So we just talked about the Condon commission, which was very interesting, you know, supposed to be this. This impartial study that the air force was supposed to have no involvement with, and, you know, they were going to objectively evaluate the results of Blue Book. I think we both know that might actually not have been the case. It might've been sort of a bad faith effort. Talk, talk to us about that because that's, I didn't even realize, you know, I've, I've been talking about your story for a while because it's such a remarkable case. And I didn't even realize how much the Condon commission kind of tied in, you know. Exactly. The officer there and yeah. Uh, well, let me, let me just start with this. Um, in 1949, I believe it was, um, J Edgar Hoover wrote a letter, um, to, uh, Congress. I'm not sure it was McCarthy or not, but, uh, in that letter, he identified Edward Condon as, and I'm paraphrasing. Nothing less than a Russian spy. I've got a copy of that letter. And so Condon, who had been, um, actually part of, uh, the Manhattan project, he was number two man under, um, under Oppenheimer, but there was a security issue. I don't know the details of that, but, uh, he was asked to resign from the Manhattan project from, because of some security. And so he did resign, but later he was appointed, um, um, um, not sure the agency, but, uh, by Truman, he was appointed to some head of agency. And then this letter comes out from Hoover. And, um, so he was questioned by, uh, during the McCarthy hearings and, uh, eventually he lost his. Security clearance as a result of that. And so he went to work for the university of Colorado, uh, as a physicist, he was a very good physicist, well respected. Um, and at some point, um, uh, I think this was a, uh, someone who knew him, Lou Branscombe. Lou Branscombe. Yeah. Yeah. He came to visit Condon and said, you know. Uh, and this was in the, uh, around 1966, I think it was. Um, he said, you know, it's been a while since, um, since you lost your security clearance. Maybe it's time you reapply to see if you can get that clearance back, because I know you want to do some research, uh, um, and get some government funding for it. And, um, he said. said um Well, he wasn't sure this would be successful, but Branscombe told him, you know, the Air Force needs someone to head up this UFO study, and it would help if you accepted that. It would probably help you get your security clearance. Anyway, that's the background. I don't know what actually happened there, but Connaught actually gave an interview to the Physical Society or Physical… American Institute of Physics. Thank you. American Institute of Physics. He gave a long interview, and I think this was discussed in that interview. Yeah, well, it's funny. In that interview, he talked… He talks about… Lou Branscombe just randomly goes up to him. He says, hey, maybe you should get your security clearance back. No explanation. And Branscombe is deep in the kind of defense, you know, elite apparatus of the U.S. at the time. He's a part of the Jason Advisory Group, which is, you know, this group that's meeting in Santa Barbara, talking about the most kind of elite frontier weaponry, you know, defensive and offensive. And so he goes to Connaught and says, maybe you should get your security clearance back. And Branscombe, the interviewer in this American Institute of Physics interview with Condon, then says, why do you need your security clearance? Like, if all this stuff was bogus, were you, you know, reviewing any sort of classified material as part of the Condon, you know, commission? And he gets very awkward, and he says, well, you know, maybe there was a video or two. I don't really know, you know, sort of like walking back, you know, his stuff. And it's interesting. I didn't know that about the J. Edgar Hoover letter about him. But I did know that a guy named Guy Hoddle, who's… An FBI field agent in Washington, is basically creating a dossier on Condon throughout the 50s after he loses his Q clearance. And he did clash with Leslie Groves six weeks into the Manhattan Project because he wanted, you know, more openness around nuclear stuff. And so that's why he was fired. And so that brings up this line in the movie Oppenheimer where Leslie Groves, his character, he says, you know, I didn't hire Oppenheimer in spite of his… I hired him because of them. And I think about this guy in Condon who's been marginalized, you know, he's lost his Q clearance. They said that, you know, he had labor sympathies in the 20s or whatever. And then they just randomly give him his clearance back, you know, and they have all this compromise on him through Guy Hoddle. I mean, who… I couldn't pick a better person to do your dirty work as far as kind of doing a hit job on the whole UFO thing. Right. It's fascinating. Right. So, you know, he wrote the McMahon Secrecy Act, which was in 1946. A lot of the language in that act worked its way into the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. And so he's kind of laid out the secrecy protocols for UFOs. And then so it's this weird history with Condon. It's just fascinating. Yeah. Do you think that that's going on at all today? Because, you know, you have this Wall Street Journal article coming out saying that an EMP was, you know, somehow wheeled up. to, you know, Malmstrom in plain sight of all of these people who claim to witness a UFO. They don't even report on the witnessing of the UFO. They just discard that entirely. It just seems like a hit job. Like, this doesn't seem like an earnest, impartial accounting of the facts that you relayed to them. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that. Well, I can think of the rationale that would go this way. The basis of our national security, so says the Department of Defense on a yearly basis when they put out their nuclear posture review. It's basically a statement about nuclear weapons is that nuclear deterrence is the backbone, the basis of our national security. So if I start, you know, coming forward and speaking about strange objects that are able to disable our nuclear weapons, of course, that's going to require the Department of Defense to explain what they're doing about it, if anything, whether they can do anything about it. And they've already said, no, nuclear deterrence, which is the concept started in the 50s, by the way, that says if we have a preponderance of nuclear weapons more than any other nation, or at least as much, no nation will attack us with nuclear weapons or even non-nuclear weapons. And so we've used that rationale. That rationale caused the arms race during the Cold War, right? To the point where in 1967, the world nuclear powers at 32,000, 32,000 nuclear weapons. Now, these. These weapons range, you know, in the kiloton range to to megaton or a million tons of TNT equivalent, but certainly enough to destroy every living thing on Earth if we use them in a nuclear war. And we still have 20,000 today total. We've got nine nuclear nations. And everybody's afraid now that Iran will get one. That's right. And the fact is that, you know, with an effort, it's nuclear weapons are probably could probably be accessed by any country that really wants them because the technology is out there. How to build a nuclear bomb is out there. In fact, I once saw a website that went through all the details of how to do that. Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so I don't think the reason they would want to discredit people like myself, Dave Schindel, and many other witnesses to this phenomenon. I don't think they would want to discredit people like myself, Dave Schindel, and many other witnesses to this phenomenon. I'm not sure UFOs have been interacting at nuclear weapons facilities. I've only touched the surface with those 13 that I mentioned in my book. There have been many, many others. I've been in touch with witnesses who are afraid to come forward or can't come forward because of non-disclosure agreements and fear of losing their jobs or their lives or whatever. But there are many other witnesses out there that could come forward to talk about incidents that happened where they were involved. Have you met any witnesses who have not been public and kind of fear for their lives or reputations and confide in you around this stuff? Yes. Have you met any that also have nuclear incidents, nuclear related? Yes. Have you met any that have seen craft in hangars on the ground or are they all aerial? Or are they all witnessings of UFOs? Well, what I can tell you is that I had something happen to me where I met one of my friends from the Air Force Academy who indicated to me that he had actually flown a plane. And I said, well, what's going on? A craft similar to a UFO that operated under similar principles. Wow. Was it in his belief it was of non-human origin or it was like in some sort of gravity modifying craft that we had built? We didn't get into those details. But let's just say I believe. And so I think we have back engineered craft that have been recovered. That's wild. Did he say anything about the experience of flying it, like the G-Force? He was pretty excited, but the way it went down, it was very quick. He was, he didn't want to go into details. Obviously, this was highly classified. Right. And he was concerned about my knowing about it after he said it. But you feel like he was trustworthy? Yeah. absolutely i spent four years going through the academy with him wow well that that's always i knew i knew him very well yeah yeah so it's not not your uh limited hangout you know at a ufo conference you get targeted with some some info or whatever it's this is a long trusted friend who opens up to you towards the end of that four-year period around this oh it was after it was after oh yeah i was out of the air force at the time so how long had you known him before he confided in you around this well i'd uh i'd say uh well we went through four years together and this was about 10 years after graduation well and we'll push you farther but if he wants to go public at any point i would talk to him that is fascinating yeah uh you , but i let's just say i know other witnesses who could come forward and validate some of these things it's so interesting i mean yeah clearly even you look at robert hastings book and you have 167 q cleared guys who all had to sign ndas immediately after their sightings many of whom face career reprisals you have to think if 167 people who are coming out despite all the disincentives to come out it's got to be thousands of actual witnesses and people who who you know in reality have experienced things around nuclear specifically alone uh there have been many many yes and it's so interesting too to you know sometimes you'll hear about a ufo story in the lore like the aerial school sighting in 1994 with you have 60 you know school children in zimbabwe and you learn that there's a uranium mine right there or the pascagoula you know the fishermen and pascagoula you know and and 74 and then you realize that all the you know navy nuclear subs were being built in pascagoula missouri so there's often this kind of unknown connection too do you think that it's um you know we were talking about theories before the cameras were rolling do you think that they're trying to save us from ourselves and make us realize our sort of brutish ways do you think that it generalizes beyond nuclear to like you know advanced science like particle accelerators or ai or you know any other things like that or do you think it's just nuclear what do you think uh well what i think is uh they see us as very warlike and and with nuclear weapons um we could we could have a nuclear war i mean it's not out of the realm of possibility now i think uh what's happening in currently with iran and israel um um you know we can we can all visualize how that could escalate into the use of of nuclear weapons i yeah go for it now we're gonna say uh yeah we also have pakistan and india who are at war with each other both nuclear powers russia has threatened to use so called tactical nukes against ukraine uh but even if a small nuke like a and by that we're talking about these tactical nukes are 15 to 20 kilotons equivalent uh tnt and that's the same size nuke that was used at hiroshima and nagasaki yeah it's a scary state we're in a multipolar nuclear war that's a like you know it's funny i feel like cold war uh tensions have died down in some ways as far as like the zeitgeist you know that sort of dive duck and roll like we're not mentally prepared but it's actually worse than you know maybe pre you know uh berlin wall falling where all of a sudden you have g and putin closer than they've ever been you know iran and israel is really a proxy war for this larger kind of global global conflict you have pakistan you know having nukes which like you know think about the amount of uh al-qaeda still in waziristan northern pakistan like that could be a failed state at any moment i think obama was quoted as saying that keeps him up more than anything at night that pakistan becoming a failed state so the amount of threat vectors around nuclear specifically are growing and sometimes i think i don't know if you think this too that like if there was ever a an explicit disclosure moment it might occur around the world and i think that's a really good point i think that's a really good point that i think that's a really good point around us being on the brink if you have another kind of cuban cuban missile crisis or an event where nukes are about to go off and you have more explicit intervention like the intervention you saw at malmstrom in 67 but around missiles that are maybe about to go off or something that might bring the you know kind of collective world into greater understanding around these things i don't know so in 1914 hg wells wrote this book called the world set free and in that book he talks about uh the construction of an atomic bomb yeah and not only that but he talks about in different terms but the generation of of energy or electricity from a nuclear reactor he even predicted dates which are close the first nuclear reactor went online in russia in 1954 and i think he he mentions in his this novel the world set free um it happened in 55 i think in in this book um but even talks about the first time on a splitting of the atom and something like the transmutation uh which occurred creating uh two different elements by the splitting of the atom yeah which actually happened that was um uh happened to be a nazi scientist by the name of um han i think uh who did an experiment in 1938 and uh was first uh to split the atom um and plus they detected a certain uh amount of energy from from that reaction that could be enormous if uh many atoms were split uh in very short order which was a chain reaction right which was later done but anyway this book became uh um the reason that uh was it was brought to the attention by einstein and and another fellow who's a name i can't remember right now but they wrote to fdr for a meeting about the possibility that germany could build an atomic bomb and that's what started uh the process of uh having our own program the manhattan project uh to to beat nazi germany to the bomb yeah it's so fascinating yeah the history of the history is so amazing and you know the germans really seemed ahead of us for a while they were worried heisenberg was known as this genius at the time and he was running the german program right and then luis walter alvarez at the livermore lab you know figured out that you know maybe maybe we could do this too and then it seems like they went off on the wrong path and really started experimenting with this heavy water engine you know sort of deuterium um and uh right and that ended up not working out but um who knows you know this is really trippy and weird but it's just a connection i made is um a lot of the rumors around you know ufos and how they fly involve a deuterium reactor you know in the middle like a heavy water engine and so i wonder if you know one timeline is like super destructive where we figure out the nuclear bomb and then maybe maybe heisenberg was like on to something that involved civil side propulsion or something and then and then that's where the that's what the ets or whatever these beings are the non-human you know beings are are flying around right well you know i like to conjecture that uh since these are very advanced beings if they were able to travel intergalactically or you know from another star system um that they've been they've been through this process of uh developing weapons of mass destruction maybe fought wars themselves and and but we're finally able to determine how to live in peace with their neighbors and they want to see us accomplish the same thing and get rid of our nuclear weapons and try to learn how to live in peace yeah is there a science fiction book that most accurately describes your worldview or do you think yeah what do you have a sense of the intention of the non-human intelligence i mean it sounds like you think that they're trying to kind of wake us up a little bit but well i mean uh to me i'm i'm just using logic i'm you know i'm i'm thinking if they're so far advanced than us they must have been through the same evolutionary process or a similar process uh where they had difficulty dealing with other groups you know other life forms and uh possibly had wars like we have had and and they can see what where we're headed if we keep down this path like i said the department of defense uses this idea of nuclear deterrence or having a nuclear weapons program that's greater better than anyone else uh as a means to protect our national security that's the basis and so they want to keep the nuclear program going with nuclear weapons you know and put the fear in everybody else that might try to attack us and that's but that's not sustainable that's not a sustainable program if other countries feel the same way right because they're going to want nuclear weapons too and they have yeah it's a time right it's hard to say where this all leads or goes but like probabilistically if you don't have non-human intelligence in the mix then you'd assume some sort of nuclear calamity you know near term like it's hard to say that like if you have what'd you say 20 000 nukes now and you know uh approximately and increasingly kind of balkanized complex web of alliances you know with tensions rising right uh it doesn't feel good no it's not good yeah and so that's why we have to make the effort to try to abolish them uh worldwide the salt i think was uh no it's called a new start treaty when president obama was in office actually signed a treaty with russia and to reduce the number of operational weapons nuclear weapons i think it was 1500 each so each country would have 1500 um and then work towards reducing them until we got to zero both the u.s and russia and of course there was a inspection regime where they would they would send inspectors here we would send inspectors there to see um what was going on in each country reduction of nuclear weapons so there was an active program to go to zero between two of the major players and nuclear weapons um so we we can't just assume this can't be done as openheimer said in one of his last speeches that he gave um to his scientists we can't afford to think that we can't abolish all nuclear weapons well yeah you had the salt talks as well in the 70s and you had uh back channels that jfk had established with khrushchev where he was trying for detente and trying for you know denuclearization and you had guys like alan dulles who he had fired director of the cia who basically wanted to take him out whether he did or not you know i think he might have but um you know around around that issue and then yeah like you said obama had that initiative but then you look at the same forces kind of behind obama and you had this ukraine peace deal in april of you know uh 2022 right after it started and you know we have not done ukraine any favors by telling them not to sign that deal you know they've lost hundreds of thousands of people and maybe it's some strategy to like tire out you know russia or something but it doesn't seem like putin's very happy with us you have medvedev you know former president on twitter saying you know uh this is you know this is gonna get really bad you know it's true like really suggestive videos that he's posting and stuff and so yeah it's a weird time this is a kind of a crazy segue but you know medvedev was interviewed actually and it was on april fool's day and uh an interviewer asked him about um ufos and thought that you know he would not take it seriously and then he goes oh yeah i know we have an extensive file about this stuff you know absolutely everything well for example uh they flew to the planet earth the most green man so i'm telling you for the first and last time together with the transmission of the suitcase with nuclear codes the president of the country brings a special folder on it written completely secretly and it is entirely and completely dedicated to the president of the country and it is entirely dedicated to the president of the country and it is entirely dedicated to the president of the country dedicated to the aliens who visited our planet at the same time dedicated to the aliens who visited our planet at the same time presented report absolutely closed presented a report from an absolutely closed presented a report from an absolutely closed special service which is engaged in control of the special service which is engaged in control of the aliens on territory our country means aliens on the territory of our country means aliens on the territory of our country means two these folders are transmitted together with two of these folders are transmitted together with a nuclear suitcase after termination of authority a nuclear suitcase after termination of authority respectively these folders are transmitted to the new respectively these folders are transmitted to the new president more detailed information on president more detailed information on president more detailed information on this topic you can get by watching this topic you can get by watching this topic you can get by watching famous chronicle documentary film people famous chronicle documentary film people famous chronicle documentary film people in black came out a few versions in black came out a few versions in black came out a few versions among us I will not tell because it among us I will not tell because it among us I will not tell because it can cause panic and he talks about a can cause panic and he talks about a can cause panic and he talks about a nuclear connection no doubt and it's so nuclear connection no doubt and it's so nuclear connection no doubt and it's so fascinating you're like any maybe it's fascinating you're like any maybe it's fascinating you're like any maybe it's plausible deniability for him because plausible deniability for him because plausible deniability for him because it's on April Fools or whatever but it's it's on April Fools or whatever but it's it's on April Fools or whatever but it's it's wild that he's you have the former it's wild that he's you have the former it's wild that he's you have the former you know Russian president talking about you know Russian president talking about you know Russian president talking about this crazy right this crazy right this crazy right and there have been other Russian and there have been other Russian and there have been other Russian officials that come out and say yeah officials that come out and say yeah officials that come out and say yeah we've we've got people studying the UFO we've we've got people studying the UFO we've we've got people studying the UFO questions so questions so questions so um um um no doubt that these incidents have happened no doubt that these incidents have happened no doubt that these incidents have happened all over the world all over the world you all over the world all over the world you all over the world all over the world you have a yeah Russian General Vasily have a yeah Russian General Vasily have a yeah Russian General Vasily Alexeyev coming out in a German magazine Alexeyev coming out in a German magazine Alexeyev coming out in a German magazine 2000 saying this stuff and then the one 2000 saying this stuff and then the one 2000 saying this stuff and then the one one of my favorite ones is there's um one of my favorite ones is there's um one of my favorite ones is there's um Marconi you know the radio engineer Marconi you know the radio engineer Marconi you know the radio engineer famous radio engineer so he is rumored famous radio engineer so he is rumored famous radio engineer so he is rumored to be part of you know this majestic to be part of you know this majestic to be part of you know this majestic 12 equivalent quote-unquote in Italy 12 equivalent quote-unquote in Italy 12 equivalent quote-unquote in Italy called the rs-33 I actually I don't know called the rs-33 I actually I don't know called the rs-33 I actually I don't know if you remember this I met you briefly at if you remember this I met you briefly at if you remember this I met you briefly at the San Marino event um which is this the San Marino event um which is this the San Marino event um which is this global UFO conference held there in global UFO conference held there in the San Marino event um which is this global UFO conference held there in Italy and so you have Italy and so you have Italy and so you have Roberti Roberto pinotti and other guys Roberti Roberto pinotti and other guys Roberti Roberto pinotti and other guys you know uh Paolo Guzzardi you know who you know uh Paolo Guzzardi you know who you know uh Paolo Guzzardi you know who do research on this out there um and do research on this out there um and do research on this out there um and Marconi's grandson in an interview Marconi's grandson in an interview Marconi's grandson in an interview that's video everybody can see the video that's video everybody can see the video that's video everybody can see the video of this he's speaking to Ogo magazine of this he's speaking to Ogo magazine of this he's speaking to Ogo magazine which is I guess their people magazine which is I guess their people magazine which is I guess their people magazine equivalent so it's sort of a gossip equivalent so it's sort of a gossip equivalent so it's sort of a gossip magazine but he says yeah my grandfather magazine but he says yeah my grandfather magazine but he says yeah my grandfather had a lot to do with the UFO and ET had a lot to do with the UFO and ET had a lot to do with the UFO and ET issue he's a part of this select issue he's a part of this select issue he's a part of this select committee um with uh um why am I blanking committee um with uh um why am I blanking committee um with uh um why am I blanking on the Mussolini yeah there you go he's on the Mussolini yeah there you go he's on the Mussolini yeah there you go he's a part of a select committee with loose a part of a select committee with loose a part of a select committee with loose Mussolini to to study this stuff um and Mussolini to to study this stuff um and Mussolini to to study this stuff um and so it's just fascinating so it's just fascinating so it's just fascinating this was the magenta crash magenta Italy this was the magenta crash magenta Italy this was the magenta crash magenta Italy in 1933 33 you mentioned Roberto Panotti in 1933 33 you mentioned Roberto Panotti in 1933 33 you mentioned Roberto Panotti he just finished a book about the magenta he just finished a book about the magenta he just finished a book about the magenta crash and and shows documentation that crash and and shows documentation that crash and and shows documentation that yeah it really did happen yeah it really did happen yeah it really did happen Marconi uh who invented radio Marconi uh who invented radio Marconi uh who invented radio um um um uh was assigned by Mussolini to head up uh was assigned by Mussolini to head up uh was assigned by Mussolini to head up the group that would investigate this and the group that would investigate this and the group that would investigate this and study the craft study the craft study the craft Etc and that craft Mace uh you know Etc and that craft Mace uh you know Etc and that craft Mace uh you know it's reasonable to see where that craft it's reasonable to see where that craft it's reasonable to see where that craft was taken to Germany to Nazi Germany was taken to Germany to Nazi Germany was taken to Germany to Nazi Germany where studies were done where studies were done where studies were done uh with that craft. In fact, Werner von Braun, who we know was later taken under, you know, taken back to the U.S. after World War II under Operation Paperclip, right? And he worked on the Apollo program. He knew a lot of the astronauts. He used to have astronauts over to his house on weekends for barbecues. And in fact, Gordon, let's see. Gordon Cooper? Gordon Cooper wrote a book. And in that book, he talks about von Braun telling him that they actually worked on UFO craft in Germany, in Nazi Germany. Wow. And actually had a flying model. That is fascinating. I didn't know that Gordon Cooper wrote that. That's really amazing. Absolutely. Wow. I got to check that out. That's wild. Yeah, you get a hold of his book. I can, I forgot the name of the book, but he did write it in there. So chances are, yeah, the back engineering of UFOs goes way back. That is fascinating. Gordon Cooper is no scrub. He spent more time in orbit than anybody before him as an astronaut as part of the Mercury missions. These were before the Apollo missions. That's amazing. I didn't know that. I got to research. That's fascinating. Look into it. I will. Yeah, because Wernher von Braun pops up in these stories. Edgar Mitchell says that he comes to him and says he has knowledge of this stuff. And apparently he was involved in Edgar Mitchell actually doing these sort of remote viewing parapsychology experiments in space and stuff. So there's tangential there, all these anecdotes. But that's maybe the most interesting anecdote of them all that he said he was directly involved in reverse engineering craft. Right. Fascinating. In fact, other of the paperclip scientists from Nazi Germany confirmed this. Again, during these weekend meetings with some of the astronauts. Well, you know, Wernher von Braun's mentor is a guy named Hermann Oberth. And Hermann Oberth is on video speculating about UFOs. He says, you know, the existence of UFOs should make anybody question reality. And then he talks about, you know. Time manipulation involved in UFO travel. And he was openly very interested in this stuff. So. And then he actually, as part of paperclip, comes to the U.S. to work as part of Convair Bell as well. So, yeah. It's fascinating. How do you evaluate? Because you obviously are very high conviction on your own experience. You have all these, you're kind of, you know, brothers in arms with the nuclear experiences where I'm sure you have to slap a pretty high probability on those being real. Yeah. Yeah. You have a bunch of new whistleblowers now coming out in other contexts saying they've worked on programs or seen things. How do you evaluate those? Well, like I said, I, uh, from personal contact with a friend of mine, I'm, I'm convinced that we have back engineered, uh, recovered craft and, um, even flown, uh, some models. Of that. Uh, so I have no doubt about that. Um, the, uh, uh, genetics studies are the, uh, studies that have been done on tissue of these beings that have been recovered. Uh, I think that has been done at, at, there's, there's been reports of that good report. And by individuals and so, yeah. And all that's being hidden from the public. Yeah. Do you think, do you have any hope of any of this stuff coming out at any point? Or do you think it's just so locked down and tightly controlled that we never get to see what a craft looks like? We don't understand its flight principles at most certain things leak in sort of these limited, you know, managed ways. You know, what, what, what do you think? Oh, let's just say. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful, but we still have this committed organization that I call the UFO cabal, uh, secrecy cabal, uh, which is determined to maintain the secrecy for a multitude of reasons, you know, greed and power. And, uh, you know, these secrets are very valuable. Um, it can be used. As, you know, bartering chips. Uh, but it's a worldwide organization, well organized, well funded. And, uh, it's going to be tough to break through. Do you have any final things to say to the wall street journal, to Joel Sheckman, to Sean Kirkpatrick? I mean. Yeah. I'd like to know what evidence arrow has. Uh, so that they were able to tell Joel Sheckman that this was some sort of EMP test. And if they have no evidence, in other words, uh, the, then they're obviously, um, and intended to discredit me and in some way for whatever reason. And, uh, it should be. It shows the modus operandi of the secrecy cabal and in that they want to discredit witnesses like myself. And by the way, I'm not the only one, only witness to these incidents involving UFOs and nuclear weapons. There are many, many out there, including Dave Shindell. I mentioned, uh, uh, Walter Fiegel. Uh, et cetera. I, I could name others. Some don't want to be named. Yeah, no, I mean, it seems very, very common. I was, I was diligencing cause I, I invest in companies. That was my day job. I'm sort of not doing that too much anymore, but a month or two ago I was helping out a friend and he wanted, uh, help on an investment. And it was actually this like, uh, way to create an artificial ozone layer. Uh, et cetera. Um, you know, it's galactic federation or whatever. And he got very kind of uncomfortable and he was like, we should talk in person or so, you know, we should, we should talk, you know, and he's like, and he was just kept deflecting. And I don't know, I think you get a lot of that when it comes to the new, the nuclear thing clearly is if you were to pick a starting point for empirical grounded inquiry into all this stuff, there's just so much bullshit out there, but the nuclear thing seems like this really clear. Well, uh, you know, After I read the article, the, uh, the hit piece, uh, disinformation, uh, I wrote, um, a rebuttal and it was, uh, I listed 14 reasons why, uh, it couldn't have been EMP testing that shut down my missiles. And it was, um, about 1100 to 1200 words. I sent that to the wall street journal. They wrote back and said, we can't accept this because it's too long. We have, uh, a limit of between 250 and 270 words or any kind of, uh, op ed or opinion piece or, or they didn't use the word rebuttal, but anyway, they rejected it. And they said, if you can condense it to 270 words, uh, then, uh, we'll consider it. What is that? Like? A half a page or something. That's not a lot of work. That's wild. That doesn't make sense to me. Also, it's like you have this, what his thing was like 11 pages or something, the original piece. And then you're, you're, and then you're only allowing, you know, um, an air force veteran. You're, you're in your eighties now. Is that right? Or that's right. That's amazing. And, and they even mentioned in the article, by the way, that I'm an octogenarian. I don't know what that has to do with anything. Well, what a, what a sucker punch though, to somebody who served, served their country to say that, you know, this is bullshit cover story about an EMP, not include any of the details around people topside actually seeing UFOs, all of the other cases, the Oscar, you know, the, um, uh, you know, the echo flight case eight days before and all of the cases since at Malmstrom, just ignore all of that and then allow you to publish something that is literally 5% the length of the article. I agree, but I made the effort and sent them a 270 word rebuttal. Uh, and just yesterday, no, just this morning, I'm sorry. Uh, they said they were going to consider it, but they probably have to edit it. It's crazy. I wrote back and said, why should you edit my rebuttal? I wrote back and said, why should you edit my rebuttal on your article, which was full of errors. No, they, they clearly have some vested interest in, in destroying this topic. I don't know what it is, but I did you hear about, I had a story too, that last November or something in the fall, I spoke to them about getting an op-ed published between Carl Nell and, uh, a cabinet, a former cabinet member. So somebody who's like a presidential candidate. And not a low ranking cabinet member, like one of the more important positions in the cabinet. And that guy is saying he's expressing frustration about lack of civilian oversight around UFO programs and lack of his own access to that. these programs and uh they they rejected it out of hand with no you know reasons as to why why they would reject it and then they go on to write this hit job you know discrediting you and stuff but they didn't mention that a cabinet member had submitted an op-ed to them last fall it's just i think that's all you need to know to say that they're acting in bad faith i mean you could maybe make some argument around bad bureaucracy the left hand the op-ed sections not talking to the other it's just it's it's nuts though yeah but i think this is an opportunity for congress to get involved because they created arrow right arrow's not performing because one of their jobs was to investigate reports like like mine and follow through get some answers you and in my case i gave them a two and a half hour talk i i gave them documents to support what i was saying um they complimented me uh in writing and verbally on the job that i did and then i at the end of it i asked are you going to check with the air force and see if i'm you know what i've said is the is uh you know they can verify it and they said no why wouldn't they do that exactly i said you know no because yeah he said because we haven't had cooperation from the air force on other witnesses well yeah i mean look i think again all you need to know is you know the the crazy story of them not you know not involving the cabinet members submission but also the fact that colonel robert hippler is saying that this was due to a you know an emp fallout from a nuclear detonation which is obviously bullshit and then then they come up with some new you know emp simulation thing right but they name an exact model that hadn't been you know ready until the early 70s so right it's just it's it's even if you're trying to discredit something it's it's it's a lazy job it's just not it's not very good right um so yeah i don't know it feels like to me kirk patrick who has always been kind of it feels like a fly trap or something like he's just trying to get the info and then and then squash these stories is spoon feeding this information to joel sheckman who probably knows nothing about ufos but as far as a national security reporter and he's just taking it face value you know you have this this guy who seems like to be you know a normal credentialed physicist telling him that all this stuff is a hoax which if you don't have the data set that that you have or i have around ufos and nukes you're just going to believe and then you're just going to publish the thing not going to fact check well again like i said at some point congress has to do the job of getting to the bottom of this issue this uap what is it what have we been doing about it what studies have we done what have we learned um and they they can start with bringing the air force in and asking them questions about incidents like mine and others that would be great well bob salas really appreciate your time thank you for having us and uh yeah this is a fantastic discussion and i hope that it it opens people's minds and i hope that it opens people's minds and i hope that it opens people's minds and also uh allows them to look a little deeper when it comes to kind of just uh taking at face value some of these mainstream media headlines and coverage of this very important topic thank you jesse i really appreciate your taking interest in in my case and and uh well the whole subject absolutely all right all right that's our show for more information about the ubiquitous link between ufos and nuclear weapons please watch my comprehensive documentary with the great journalist robert hastings and if you want to watch my comprehensive takedown of the wall street journal i will link that video too finally speaking of hearing out patriotic whistleblowers and veterans please support my friend and past american alchemist randy anderson who came on my show earlier this year to expose a possible off-world technology division at naval surface warfare crane in indiana he described seeing a levitating orb and a gauntlet emitting alien-looking hieroglyphics my friend jesse i really appreciate your time and i hope that you have a great day and i'll see you next time on the next episode of the alchemist program you