Aimee Smale on building Odd Muse into a $30M brand, why her wedding can wait, and the reality of out-earning your partner

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Visit northwestregisteredagent.com slash HSR free and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent. Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com slash HSR free. Right now, then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. All girls in their 20s make so much time on crap friends and crap boys. So I think in business, just teaching women to be unapologetic is so important. Basically, I was that pretty little thing. And I started a brand called Odd Muse. And now you've built a $30 million brand. Bootstrapped. Yep. No investors. I'm obsessed with you. I was one of the first buyers of Odd Muse. I do like women, especially. We just need to scream a bit more. About our success. That's why I started my personal brand because I genuinely didn't realize it was going to be this hard. Like this is the craziest story. I had to pay my deposit and one of the guys phoned me and say, can you send me $100,000 just to prove that you can pay the deposit next week? So like as a woman, I had to give a deposit to my deposit. But I love being underestimated. Like I've paid my mom and dad's mortgage off. That's what excites me about money. I'm like, what would this unlock? I would not have been able to do this. If it wasn't for. A lot of people watching this will want to be founders. How do you think about being driven, successful, ambitious, especially in terms of being in a relationship? Quite controversial. Hi, angels. Did you know that subscribing to our channel is free? It doesn't cost you anything. And it is the simplest way for you to support Hot Smart Rich and help us grow so that we can bring you more of the conversations you love. Just hit the subscribe button below. And thank you. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart and rich. So let's get into it. Amy Smail, are you ready to get Hot Smart Rich? Yes, absolutely. So excited that you're here. I feel like Hot Smart Rich is needed in London. Do you not think? You actually posted that. And I really wanted to get into why you put that onto your latest vlog. Because I just feel like in the UK, we're so reserved. And women especially, we just need to scream a bit more about our success. And I feel like I do on these podcasts, because I know why people watch it. But in real life, if someone was to be like, oh my God, odd muse or anything like that, I'd curl up into a ball. So I just feel like us British girls, us as a nation, we need some more Hot Smart Rich. I couldn't agree more. And that's why she's here. That's why you're here. And that's why I'm here. Yeah. We have a lot of US listeners that might not know who you are. So if someone's just clicked into this conversation, what would you tell them to get them to stay to listen to the episode in fall? Okay. So first of all, my name is Amy Smail. I started a brand called Odd Muse back in 2020 during a time where no one was going anywhere. And I was essentially trying to sell you clothing then. Everyone told me not to start a business or not to sell you clothes. I thought it was the perfect time to start a business because everyone was on their phones and I knew I had a great product. Fast forward six years, we are now a $30 million company. We have stores in New York. We have a store in London on New Bond Street, which is like the most prestigious place in London to have a store. So I'd say that's my little thing to get you to stay. I started doing this because I think like you, you've built a community driven brand and so have I with Hot Smart Rich. And so I like to give a promise because I've chosen you for a reason. So to my community, what I will promise you will get from this episode if you listen to it in full is this, and I want to see if you agree or disagree at the end. You will be able to build an exceptional personal brand, an exceptional bootstrapped business and live life without permission. I love that. I do agree with that. Especially like with the era I'm in now, like the last like five to six years have been like really hard. But that last point you said, I'm really like living that now. So there might be someone listening to this that are like in the crux, like in the pits of their business right now, but there is that kind of no permission coming your way. How would you describe your personal brand and your era that you're in right now? Exciting. And I think, I really didn't know the opportunities that there are with a personal brand. Like for me, when I first started posting about Odd Muse, it was by pure default. I was a 22 year old girl. I spent all my money on stock. I had no budget for models, photographers, marketing. I had no knowledge of marketing. So for me, building a personal brand and telling people what I'm doing and sitting on the floor of a storage unit, packing your orders, that's the only thing I could really do to push my brand. I think it's just super surprising like how there is a business in yourself. I think the way that you think about even those two avenues as one is very short-term monetization and one is long-term equity. So like for you, you can actually get a lot of money from the personal brand right now, this second, but you did something so smart, which is you have equity in what you've built. A hundred percent. And on that point is Odd Muse is always the priority. It always has been the priority. Six years in, I'm learning a little bit more about monetizing my personal brand, but my priority has been building Odd Muse. And I think that's really important to say, because sometimes the world of social media and maybe like the attention can be like super exciting and you want to focus on that, but the long game really is in the business and the equity. A lot of people watching this will want to be founders or be building a personal brand. What would you say to the person about why it's beneficial to have something other than the personal brand as you're building both a personal brand and a business? Again, I think it's just something that I fell into, but I think it's just something that I fell into, but I think it's just something that I fell into, but I think people really connect with it. And I was talking about this the other day. So I have always, I've not gate kept anything. Like I've always told you how much money it costs to start a business, how much money it costs me to start my New York store, launches that didn't go well, launches that did go well. And I feel like I've just had no ego with it. And I think that's the key thing. I see a lot of founders that want to show this glamorous day in their life. But I've always. The reason I started my personal brand and started posting was because I genuinely didn't realize it was going to be like this hard. I was like, I've posted videos of me like so upset on the floor because I'm like, no one is telling us that it is like this and that this is like the reality of building something. It is so stressful. And in those early years, everything is new. So everything just feels so heavy. Whereas like your five, six year point, you've like, you've seen it all. If you're going to do it, it's really important to be so authentic to a fault. And also I would say I never actually really started telling people how to do things until like year three. I see a lot of founders that are really early in their journey and kind of come into social media like this is how you should do this. This is how you should do that. I never felt qualified to tell anyone how to do things until like year three, year four. And that's when I kind of started to do it. So I've never actually really started telling people how to do things until like year three, year four. podcast and like feeling a bit more confident to share. Up until that point, it was like, this is how I done it. And, you know, I'm upset about this today. And this has happened today. And but it's only in like year three, four, five that I've actually been like, no, I'm actually confident this is how you should do it. So I think dropping the ego being really authentic, and not trying to come across like, you know, more than what you know. I was so excited to have you on because I also have cried quite a few times on the internet. It's quite controversial. It is. Is it controversial in the UK? Yeah, I think people just love to say like, I would never cry on the internet. But if I didn't cry, if I didn't post videos of me crying, there would be no content going out. Like I was building a bit I was building this business. And if I didn't plop my phone up and show it just tell you how today's gone, there would be no content for make me smile. So it was kind of like, it's either like post that or post nothing. And, and, you know, I'm, I'm I'm proud of it. It's real. It's like, that is I have set myself a goal to stop crying on the internet. Like there has to be a time when enough is enough. But I have no regrets. I think it's like, shocking that as women, we didn't tell each other like how hard this is. And I'll always just advocate that it takes blood sweat and literal tears to get to where you want to get to i couldn't agree with you more and you've also gotten amazing opportunities from crying on the internet so we probably wouldn't know each other had you not posted videos of you crying take me back to i actually have a fun story with steven about this so i posted that i can't remember what what was going on at the time i think i was just running a team of like with no managers so I had maybe like 40 people reporting in to me. I wasn't like, I hadn't got the structure in Ogmuse yet. And I just had this. Oh, my God, I'm like the ugliest crier. I'm literally Kim K. Oh, my God. Someone commented on that the other day, like, I'm actually so glad to see this video and, like, know where you are now. But Stephen basically saw this video and reached out to me and was like, here's my number. Send me a 15-minute voice note of everything that's going on. And within, like, an hour, I got a 15-minute voice note back at, like, 2 a.m., which is insane because I know how busy I am. I can't imagine how busy that guy is. So to send me back a 15-minute voice note was insane. But, yeah, I just, I'm not that girl anymore. But that's crazy. I feel like that's where I have this thesis that the next era of these creator brands is actually leading through vulnerability and women. And I think women are so perfectly positioned to do that. But I also feel like one of women's superpowers is to be a chameleon and to know the room that you're in. And for me, I'm so curious for you because I think people see and have seen me cry on the internet. And then I don't know if they assume that I would do that in every single work setting. So how did you think about your online persona building the brand to your community versus building it with your team? That's been a difficult one because, obviously, my team, I feel like. Sometimes my team have kind of, like, tiptoed around me a little bit because, like, there's been a few situations where I haven't actually known things that are going on internally with the business because the girls in my team are just, first and foremost, just too lovely to, like, want to bother me if I'm having that sort of moment. So it's definitely affected that. But I would say that one of the reasons why I love how emotional I've been over the years is whenever I see someone, whenever I see someone, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. When I see someone in public, they do not hesitate to run over to me and immediately they are not scared to say anything. They just feel like I'm their best friend. And that happened to us in Cannes, didn't it? That girl run straight over to us and was like, oh, my God, Amy and Maggie, people are so excited because they have. They just feel so connected to you. Like, they've seen you in your most, like, vulnerable state. They feel so, so connected to you. And I love that. Like, I love people running over to me like they've known me for, like, 10 years. And so I actually think it's like my superpower, like just being able to share everything and have no, you know, I just click hit, I just click post. And I think not enough people have that nowadays. We all want to curate something perfect. But I just, I just click post because this, I'm running a business. I can see if it's like this or nothing. But, yeah, no, I think they connect with you on another level. Like, because I see people that I maybe follow and I don't, feel like I'm connected enough to them. So I'm a bit hesitant. Or should I say hello? Should I not? I know people don't feel like that with me. And I love that. You said something when I showed you that video that that's not you anymore. How would you describe the Amy that started the brand versus the Amy that you are sitting here today? The Amy that started the brand was so shy, so timid. And I love to say that because on paper, I am not the, or was not the personality type to run. A business. I'm super, super sensitive. I feel everything. And I can be super awkward in social situations. Like even at events now, I'm like, oh my God, why am I going here? Who am I going to know? Like I, I stress so much about all the little things. Um, but six years later, I'm so confident in my success. I've always been super confident in odd news product, but not myself. And I think the confidence. That odd news has given me, but also it's just made me tougher. Like the last six years have been so hard. Like it isn't, it has not been easy at all. Like we've, a lot of people think odd news is an overnight success. And even overnight successes are. First of all, it's not an overnight success, but we've had moments where like the business has skyrocketed overnight in certain situations. I don't think people understand how hard it is to have an overnight success. How hard it is to go from 100 people. To 10,000 people on site and having to facilitate that and having to manage reviews when your face is front and center of this brand. So yeah, I just think she is 10 times tougher, a lot more confident. There's still glimpses of her, but she's just been through it. A lot of people listening to this want to build confidence. They want to be a more confident version of themselves. That is probably other than like, how do you have a successful relationship or start investing? Confidence seems to be the thing that all of these women are trying to grow. What are steps that you can take or things that you do to actually build your confidence in addition to just putting in the reps? I think the main thing for me is one thing I used to tell myself really early on in the business stages was I have every single week. I have to be terrified. Every single week you have to be scaring yourself because you're not going to build up that confidence, you're not putting yourself in terrifying situations without posting that video online, without opening that store, without signing that contract. You have to constantly be terrifying yourself and doing things that scare you. And that doesn't change. I still always put myself in situations that terrify me, that feel so, so nerve wracking leading up to that moment. But it just, it does so much for yourself and it does so much for your business. When you were at that creator influencer, do people like to be called creators or influencers here? Oh, I think, I don't know. The creator term's kind of like coming in. It seems more like business-y. Okay. So I'm a creator. Okay. So the creator event that you went to last night, were you nervous walking in? Absolutely. And how did you overcome that to own the room? I went on my own. I could have had a plus one. I made sure I went on my own and I, I just dived in. I just went. I had no strategy. I just went and I met loads of people. I made sure to like go up to a few people and just say, hi, I'm Amy. How are you? And really introduce myself. That's one thing I never used to do. Introduce myself. I would always just look for someone I knew or like, and just attach to one person. But I really make sure that I introduce myself now. And I feel like that's actually something that I learned from like American founders. Like they are so like, hi, I, this is my name. This is what I do. And that's one thing I found really refreshing in Canada. People really advocate themselves for themselves and as they should, but there's not enough of that here. We're all a bit like, maybe like a bit awkward around introducing ourselves and we can be quite clicky. And I think just walking into the room and introducing yourself. And if someone doesn't respond to that the way you would respond to that, you don't need to talk to them. Like I know if someone walked over to me and said, hi, I'm Maggie and this is what I do. I'd be like, oh my God, that's amazing. My name's Amy and stuff like that. So I think you should always kind of expect that people are going to be as welcoming as you. And if they're not, then you're not a match and you can talk to the next person. I'm so curious because I have a perception of what you would be as a child, but how would you describe what Amy was like as a child? Amy as a child drove herself mad. She would move furniture at 2 a.m. She would rearrange her bed. I mean, to start odd news, I actually dissembled my single bed in my parents' room and threw it out in the driveway. I was like, I don't need to sleep. I just need to shoot content in this room. And I need like a little desk to watch. I don't need to work from. So like my dad come home that day and was like, what is going on? Your bed is in like a million pieces on the driveway. But I just, I'm really obsessive and impulsive. And I feel like I really like, if I have a good idea, I run with it. But like throughout school, university, like would stress myself out so much. Like I remember being like eight years old and having like a test at school and I'd covered my room with like all these like brainstorm mind maps so I could go to sleep, read, and think at all. Like I would get so obsessive. I know. And like I would just spend so much time on my own. And I think I just really felt a lot of pressure to do really well. But it was so self-inflicted. Like that never come from anywhere, anyone in my family. I just always wanted to do well. Why do you think that is? I don't know why. I just, I get a kick out of it. Like I love, I just, I just, who doesn't want to do well? But I just was a bit obsessive. Like I would like stay. I would have like the security guy at university kick me out the library at midnight. Like I was so obsessed. But I think that's a credit to like my work ethic. Like I have always put myself in situations where I'm doing things that I love. So at university, I started fashion buying. I was so interested in the buying world of fashion. And even at school, like all the subjects that I chose, like I've always been really obsessed with like learning. I think that's really important. I always say I need to be laughing or learning. I always love to say that to people because I feel like people have such a thin patience nowadays. with their expectation at work. Whereas if I'm having a crap day at work, I'll be like, at least I'm learning something today. I can either be really enjoying myself, having a great time laughing, or if I'm not enjoying myself, at least I'm learning something. If I'm not laughing or learning, I'm not doing it. That's like my rule of life. I think that's so important for founders to talk about because so often it's like people look to you as the top of the business and you're almost democratizing your information. And like the best founders that I see actually do the opposite. They're learning so much from their team. But who would you credit the most that you've learned from in the journey of building on Muse? I feel like I'm really just entering that era because I've really started hiring up. It took me so long to hire senior hires. So I've recently hired a managing director and a brand director. And I just love sitting in catch-ups with them and rooms with them. And I fill my time up with them as much as I can because I just feel like I'm absorbing so much from their knowledge and their experience, but also just their experience in like leading the teams. Like I feel like one thing I really underestimated was that leadership quality that you need when you build a team. And I mean, I think just watching these two people give feedback to other people is so mind-blowing to me because previously in the business, I would be like having to tell someone that I don't like something or I want to change something. I'm like hyperventilating going into this meeting and thinking that I'm breaking their heart. But these hires that have been in the business a lot longer than me, just do it in such an amazing way that's better for the team member. So I think I'm learning a lot about leadership from them. But up until that point, it was all my customers and all my community. And I've had no, I've took criticism so good. Like, but one thing about fashion buying will teach you if like a product's not working, do not personally attach, move on. So I've always, constantly like been asking my community, do we like this? Do we like that? Oh, you like that dress? Okay, we'll do this collection based on this. And I've learned a lot from my community. But now I'm like really leaning into like directors and kind of like moving into that C-suite level to just really absorb knowledge from them. I love that you're talking so much about learning because you often think when you finish school, it's like you're done learning and you just have to know everything. I love people that know more than me. I want to be the dumbest person in the room at all times. All times. Do you like that or no? I say the exact same thing. Like I was actually, so there's a new woman, Elena, who just joined my team and she's in training this week. And I was saying like, I love when people have a point of view. Like do not just agree with me because then I lose trust that like you actually don't have the skill set that I wanted you for. Like the best way to work with me is actually to push me, is actually to like give me a different thought. If you are attached to that, that could become a problem. But if you introduce that thought and it's a conversation, I love that. I think that's such a conversation to have with anyone before you hire them. What is the best way to work with you? I read a quote the other day and I'm kind of like forgiving myself. Like I feel like hiring is a bit like dating and it's like, it's so fine if it doesn't work out because it's not good for either party. So I'm really like, I feel like with people I hire, I am kind of like playing the field a little bit and seeing if we like really click. I want to go to that a little bit because I think, I'm so curious with founders of like why they start a brand. It sounded like, that's why I asked about you as a child, like you loved learning and you loved being obsessed with things. But what was it specifically about aspirational luxury fashion that you were like, I'm going to do this? Well, basically I was working, well, I was at university, graduated, got my first job at ASOS. First paycheck hit, I was like, okay, fuck pretty little thing. I've got money now. Fuck boohoo. I'm not, get out of my way. I've only been buying you because I've literally had no money. I've been buying you on my student line. I'm ready. So I want to spend like 150 quid, 150 pounds. We were laughing earlier when I said quid. I wanted to spend 150 pounds on something. I was like, I want to buy like, what is my first piece? I couldn't find anything. There was nothing out there that was speaking to a young working woman that wanted to just up her spend. And just like buy something cool. And it was literally like a YSL blazer for 2000 pounds or like a 20 quid dress from pretty little thing. No one was like hitting that middle ground. And I just, I sat with that idea for a while, continue to just use my ASOS discount and just wear ASOS and pretty little thing and stuff. And then over COVID, I was like, no, this really needs to happen. Like this is such a niche. I'd been like working on samples in the background. Like I'd been spending like 60 pounds here and there getting samples made in China because I was working at ASOS. I understood like where people were getting clothes from, how much they cost, how much it was to import them. Like I was really understanding like the BTS of fashion that no one sees, like how you actually get a product on site. And I think, well, over COVID, I got moved departments at ASOS and I was on like the beauty brand. And a lot of people love, a lot of people love beauty buying. But for me, it was so systematic. It was like, I was ordering like 30,000 Pixie Glow Tonics a week, just like a, I felt like I was just at a call center all of a sudden. And I just, I wasn't in that creative realm. Whereas when I was on the premium department, I was going to appointments. I was curating collections for ASOS. And I had an amazing manager that let me do things that were like way above what I was able to do. So I think it took job satisfaction to be like on the floor and a bit of like, lockdown, spending too much time with myself and just really gearing myself up to just go for it. And then one day I was like, I've got this sample made. This blaze is amazing. I'm going to quit my job. And I think there's something in that that just clicks. And I think I'd spent so much time on odd news. Like it was a hobby before it was a business. So I was like commuting into London every day for two hours on my iPad, like sketching. What's the brand called? The mission is investment fashion. The mission is slow fashion. I need a good name. I thought of every single detail. And I think when I come to market, although I look back now and I'm like, that is not how I would have odd news look, like if I look at the socials and stuff, but it looked pretty good for a 22 year old that was just quitting a job. And everyone was like stunned by the finishing product. So I think I just come to market with an idea that I'd spent so much time with. And I was so confident in, like when I speak about not being confident in myself, I'd spent two years on it. And I thought it was the best thing ever. And I had to share it with the world. So I think making it a hobby for like two years before launch was like the most game changing thing I did because I fell in love with my business before the world did. I've always understood why people are interested in crypto, but I'll be so real. A lot of trading platforms make the whole thing feel more complicated than it needs to be. 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Where did the name Oddmule come from? has come from? - Oh, I need to think of a chic way of saying this but I'll tell you and then I really need to work on this but I was obsessed with the idea of the word muse like something that was super inspiring and I think I just really had a problem with the industry like really pushing fast fashion um onto these young women honestly like spending like you would watch brands like boohoo spend way more money on getting someone in love island in these crap clothes than they would on the actual clothes and like people were buying into it and I essentially was like okay what I'm doing is odd odd muse I don't think you need to change that okay I actually I'm doing something odd I think that for me I think being different and being odd is actually such a superpower especially in this world we live in now where even facial features are starting to look the same but I don't know about you like when I see a woman with very distinctive features that doesn't have Instagram face I am drawn to them I am like there is something so uniquely different about it so I don't know because I you know this but I was one of the first buyers of my feels when you showed me those pictures I was like I cannot believe this because this is like the podcast that I've been manifesting this year and then you rocked up that picture I was like no this is not real this is not happening right now and it's like you in a car park on the with the blazer on and that was the first VC dinner that I was hosting where I was actually trying to get LPs so very rich people into a fund that I was at at the time and I remember being like this is what is going to speak to who I am I'm a creator meets being now at a VC fund and I want to be fashionable and I want to be stylish but I want to be taken seriously and I'm actually hosting people that have real money and I remember it was a UK brand I was always looking to be different like whenever someone asked me about my outfit I didn't want to say Zara I didn't want to say the same thing and so being having that word odd in it drew me to the brand yeah so it's a good name I actually think you need to like own that okay sorry yeah but I love what you just said there like that odd muse really is a feeling like people we call it well we've there's a few people that say on TikTok and we're just owning it now but we call it like the odd muse effect and it really just met all the clothes make women feel so fabulous and so ready for whatever they're going into whether that is a board meeting whether they're going into fashion it's just it really is like a coming of age when like a young woman stops shopping fast fashion and moves into odd muse and I love that because every single year I've been in business fast fashion is just declining and I have so many young women that have said to me you've changed the way I've shopped like I used to spend the same amount on boohoo and asos and stuff like that but now I just like I want to re-wear this one thing over and over again we have people that still wear that blazer five years later that was my mission to just buy something that you want to wear that's not only going to last in terms of quality but also style like we're not inspired by trends we're completely inspired by what has worked before and what our customer will like but it is a feeling it is odd people will if it's a really important day people are going to come to odd muse and I love that I also love what Isabel our mutual friend said about having things that you are known for aesthetically on your on your personal brand page so like she only really has a few pieces of colors in her wardrobe because it's actually now what people are drawn to yeah where it's instant instantly recognizable yeah I think that slow fashion and what you have pioneered is would be so intimidating sitting at where you were at a 22 year old woman how much money did you have saved to launch this brand to go up against these huge brands so I saved like twelve thousand pounds to try and move out one day and then I thought I'm just going to risk it all I've got you know I've got I felt really steady like I hadn't moved out yet I knew that my parents like pretty solid they probably still let me live in their bedroom now so I'm so lucky to like have that support like they didn't have anything they couldn't give me anything but they gave me like a secure home and I feel like that's just been everything to me and so I really just like mitigated the risk I was like I can I'll buy a house one day it's fine and so it was twelve thousand pounds but that all went on stock I had nothing for nothing else like I had no I made my website myself I learned myself I taught myself Shopify I made the logo myself I didn't have anything but this stock that I'd purchased I bought twelve thousand pounds worth of stock and now you've built a thirty million dollar brand thirty million last year yeah bootstrapped yeah no investors if you could do it all over again would you do the same thing yeah I kind of think be it's I feel like not having investors is like my biggest flex for fashion it's so like when I walk down New Bond Street I'm like I'm the only store here that's like female founded with no money from anyone like I'm on the same street as a mess in New York I'm next door to totem like and I've done this all by myself with my own cash like I feel like that's something I'll be so proud of and even if we do take investment one day or anything like that I'll always be so proud of how far I took it without any help and I did that with my community I would not have been able to do this if it wasn't for the pre-order model so for like the first three years of abuse I was selling all my stock before I had to pay for it and that was people always asked me about the pre-order model and I'm like the product was that good the first 100 units would sell out and people would pay and wait for five weeks and it's like it's a lot to ask people five weeks like I can't this isn't fast fashion I can't get it back on site within a week like five weeks was even like a push the manufacturer that I work with had just started her business at the time so we was both just like working day and night to get it done because we wanted to build our businesses together and like five weeks was the best we could do but up until like last year like 60 percent of our site was on pre-order and I couldn't have built that business like my pre-order my community invested in me and I think that's just the most like niche story that I'm so proud of because I made them want that so much and I made them trust me that much to want to wait for that product because we all have especially now like we all have such a thin patience we scroll tiktok we go we watch it for three seconds we keep scrolling patience is so thin nowadays but I created something that people were willing to pay for and wait five weeks for and I think that's so powerful now that you're sitting at 30 million dollars of revenue what is the goal the goal is to take it to 100 with no investment and then because I feel like if you watch me in podcasts a few years ago I'd be like nope never doing investors but I I do feel like that would be such a new learning experience for me and definitely something that I want to do I also feel like odd muse and the team would deserve that because I recognize that there's only so far that I can take it on my own it would get to a point where it'd be like quite risky to still be running a business so I think that's something that I would want to do and I think that's something solely on your own of that capacity um but I really want to take it to 100 million with no investors and I'm I'm in no rush I'm in no rush like that can be 2030 that could be 2035 like that is just my goal um so yeah that's the goal I love when you talk about that because I think so many people build a business to sell nowadays like you've seen the exits right yeah and it happens so quickly like Hayley Bieber on road three years I know how do you think about that when you see something like that in the news where you're like what what do you feel when you hear that headline I always feel like I always ask myself like what if what are people saying um what could that be for odd muse what would odd muses journey be like if I took an opportunity that come my way maybe two years ago um but I'm also like there's no rush there's like I'm building a brand with longevity like everyone will tell you in business that you need to strike while the iron's hot and and this is an amazing opportunity when you're going like that you should sell but I just I'm building a brand with longevity and we've got a long way to go so I'm in no rush to take investment and I feel like I'm only just really starting to enjoy myself and find myself in the business so I'm just enjoying it at the moment like I'm not someone that went into business to make money and I feel like that's why I've got such a good relationship with my community obviously that's been amazing and I've wanted to like push the brand but even one thing I'm being really transparent at the moment is we're kind of like lingering at this 30 million like I think we'll finish again the same this year with like no growth and I'm like really transparent about that because I know that I need to re-strategize this and this is a new challenge for me and I'm learning a lot I also know that I could go to an investment board and be like right we're at 30 million we want to take it to 100 million and they could they could do that for me within like a year or two I know that but I want to challenge myself to do that myself and I'm not in a rush to see those numbers and I think yeah some people might think I'm crazy for saying that but I I want to be transparent about it I see I see a lot of articles that go out when a business doesn't grow keep growing like that but I mean I never set out to have a business with 30 million so if I make 30 million for the next five years I'm good I'm happy like that's for me that's so so cool and I think the real the way I'm going to grow this business is because I'm not putting pressure on myself anymore like I'm going to unlock that 100 million because I'm not that girl that's stressing anymore um so yeah we're kind of stuck at the 30 but we re-strategize we're changing everything that we're doing we're doing all new product we're sourcing so many new fabrics we're just moving into like even more of a luxury era and I'm just enjoying learning you said that you didn't start the business to make money do you like making money now I do but it's it's funny like even since I it's only since I've monetized my personal brand that I feel financial freedom I bootstrapped this business so any money I've had I've not been attached to and and I've just had like so many priorities with my money like I wanted to buy my dad my mom and dad a car before I even moved out I wanted to pay their mortgage off before I even moved out and stuff like that so the the money has been amazing but it's never really felt like mine until I monetized my personal brand and anyone with a fashion brand will know that or anyone with a business will know so many things crop up like in them early stages you could have like thirty thousand pound in your bank account and then the next day and a big invoice hits and it's nothing you so I never got attached to that money and I remember when we got a finance director in he was like stunned at like how well I managed the cash flow but it's because I never once got excited made big purchases I never really unlocked financial freedom until I monetized my personal brand and I think that's really important because you can see those numbers come in you can get super excited and you can make some silly purchases as you should but I just I never did that and I've had such a separate relationship with the money that is odd news and I think any bootstrappers will know you just need to like save everything for a rainy day have you made more money from your personal brand than you have as the CEO of the company then um I guess so yeah I guess so because I've just like reinvested it all and like obviously there's more money sitting in odd music's account than mine so I don't know how you'd work it but in terms of like the money that's like how much odd news has paid me into my account versus my personal brand technically yeah well I think that's why I wanted to ask it because I think a lot of founders especially women are afraid to say how their business is doing with revenue because people in their life feel like they've made 30 million dollars yeah did you ever feel scared that like the people in your life whether it was your family your friends whoever would be like now Amy's made it and like she can take us no no definitely not I've had I'm really lucky with the circle around me like growing I've had like my two best friends for like 12 years like I'm not I'm I don't have like loads of friends and I like it that way and and I've just got such a solid family and I think everything even to this point is like still such a nice surprise if I do anything there's no expectations and I feel like I'm really lucky because I know some people wouldn't have the same experience but it just makes me want to give more I'm obsessed with you I feel like this is why you were asking me how it's going in in the UK and it has been so interesting that a lot of people when even the money conversation comes up and you know that's kind of like the whole point of the show is for the Bella we call the Bella that's listening to this to really feel like she doesn't have to follow the grain she doesn't have to listen to the gatekeeper she can find financial freedom and what I call fuck you money yeah to be able to leave any room that she's no longer respected in yeah but when it actually comes down to talking with the numbers whether you're in the US or the UK it's like it's a very scary thing it is and it really is and it it goes back to like when I come on these podcasts I know as a listener what I would want to hear from me but when I'm in real life I would never talk like this at all I would never sell myself I would never if someone comes over to me and says what music is amazing I'll be like like it really just it's a British thing we just want to curl up into a ball and we don't want to seem like we're boasting and we don't want to seem like we're boasting and we don't want to seem like we're boasting I think that's the main thing like we don't want to come across like we're showing off but I think I'm kind of in this era where I'm like so proud of how I've used my success and like even just like my life dream was to look after my parents the way I have so the second I paid their mortgage off was like my I made it moment like how can I ever have a down day again like I've paid my mum and dad's mortgage off I've unlocked the freedom that they've deserved their whole life after giving me everything so I think I'm just really proud of how I've used my success and I love to talk about it how do you think about setting goals for money now if you've already achieved something for your parents like that now when I think about like when I speak about this hundred million all I really think about is my team because with that a hundred it's not about making a hundred million pounds it's about building a brand with longevity it's about giving the team all these opportunities it's about bringing more people in that everyone can learn from and it's about bringing more people in that I think that's what excites me about I always think about money and what it can do for like everyone around me and so I think that's what I think about when I think about money I'm like what would this unlock and I think that that's with a hundred million I'm like this would unlock so much for the team and the brand what are the investments that you've made both let's do your personal brand and for odd muse that were a lot of money but paid off in the end to grow both of those businesses I think I mean for odd muse there's been many many times where I've just risked it all and like that comes down to the stores like even with my New York store that was an insane amount of money and I was in far too deep when I started realizing the deposits and like yeah definitely the stores I remember when we opened New Bond Street this guy was like on his bike and he stopped me like what shop is opening here like I live here and I'm like oh it's my brand odd muse and he was like oh who's that your investor and I was like no I'm opening it and he went to me you're brave that's what he said to me he was like you're really brave and I was like yeah I am I am brave and this is going to work and there's you should come back on Saturday and see the queue outside the door so yeah and even when I opened the New York store this is the craziest story I had to pay my deposit and I had one of the guys phone me and say can you send me a hundred thousand dollars just to prove that you can pay the deposit next week so like as a woman I had to give a deposit to my yeah did you pay that yeah but I got it back that is something that I feel like deserves even a different conversation where it's like about being a woman in business what do you think is our benefit of being a woman in business and where do you feel like situations like that hurt us um I mean it's never really hurt me like I love being underestimated I don't I get a lot of questions about this and I feel like people expect like more of an emotional response and like it's a disadvantage but I don't think it's a disadvantage but I think I think it's like okay I'm brave I'm more than brave that to be doing this and uh yeah I even get like there's people that really thought that New Bond Street store wasn't going to last through Christmas and it's just like the New York store in January we signed the permanent lease off for a pop-up store like just the fuel that Odd Muse gives me and how amazing it is and how much it has defied all my expectations just kind of like fuel me whenever I'm in a room of people that underestimate me when you distill that down to like what is it is it viral product is it founder-led content is it like being in in front of cultural trends that are happening like what is it it it's honestly the community that I've built and the die-hard Odd Muse girls that just support everything we do and they've just given me so much confidence in in this and just the longevity of the brand like being able to afford rent on Mercer Street in Soho and New Bond Street in London just being able to pay that invoice every month is insane to me so I think just the longevity of the brand like every every month that goes by every year that goes by every store that we open it just builds more and more in me and I feel like that's why you see like such a change in me in this fifth year because it's like I've been running this business for five years it's so hard to run a business for five years like it's one thing to scale a business it's a whole other thing to scale a business it's a whole other thing to scale a whole other thing to maintain that maintaining is so hard and that's what we're doing and I'm so proud of us for doing that let's talk about the difference between building a brand in different markets because I feel like you actually done it in the US and in the UK and now you're doing it in Dubai yeah why the brand has always done really well out there through no marketing no like real push from us and I think it's really important when you're in a market like that to recognize the business you have and learn more about it so at the moment I'm spending a lot of time learning about the market and the culture there and I think that's really important because I don't want to get to a day where odd muse is huge in the Middle East and I haven't done anything to respect the Middle Eastern customer so I'm learning so much about the Emirati woman like I meet I meet women that tell me that they buy our bridesmaid dresses for at-home date nights with their husband how cool is that they obviously they are modest when they go out but when they're at home with their husband they wear whatever they want and odd muse is like such a part of that for them so they'll buy like the bridesmaid dresses in every color and they get super dressed up and that is just learning about these women they are so amazing and I want to do more for them like that's great that you're wearing odd muse for your at-home date nights but you need to be able to wear odd muse when you're out of the house what do you think the best market is to build a the business and in the aspirational luxury fashion category your end i think the old-fashioned term you crack america you crack the world is still very relevant there's a lot of people in america they are always looking for like the newest coolest thing the coolest london brand like i love all the new york girls come in and think we're like the coolest thing ever just because we're from london and i love that so i still truly believe you crack america you crack the world um and i knew that from the very beginning like one thing one thing i really remembered when i started this business is okay i am in the uk we are on a tiny island and as much as i want to convince young women to stop shopping fast fashion they are a lot more powerful than me so i'm going to tell them my mission and i'm going to slowly get them on board but from day one i'm putting all my ads to the us from day one i'm speaking to the us and we was really only sending orders out to the us for like the first two years like we was not a uk brand big in the uk like we had a lot of followers in the uk but we weren't quite getting them to convert it took a lot of time to build trust it wasn't until 2023 when or 2022 when i released our pearl dress and got into like the dress market that i really kind of convinced the uk girls to get on board with this i had to prove myself but the us loved us from day one i ordered the blazer from day one exactly and a lot a lot of people know that they assume that we kind of went into the us when we opened the new york store but the us has always been like a large majority of the business i think something that i found shocking about you personally then was that you ended up building it from the uk moving to the us when last year and now you've already left why um i think the main thing really was i wasn't actually ready to leave my team it wasn't necessarily like a us thing but i think what made it really stressful is i'd moved to the us to really set this market on fire like they'd been ordering from us for a while from the uk warehouse we needed to open a warehouse we needed to do a big marketing strategy and then within a day of being there trump bought in 145 tariff so all of a sudden someone ordering a 200 blazer would have to pay like 500 to get it and that doesn't make sense no one's doing that so i kind of watched the business overnight i was like oh my god i'm going to be like oh my god i'm going to be like half and that's quite stressful because i just signed the lease in new york we couldn't get any stock it was like this time where i didn't know what to do i kept stopping the shipment because my shipment was going to be like an extra like a hundred thousand dollars just to get it into the port i didn't know what to do so there was like two months when we first opened the new york store where there was nothing you could buy in there and yeah that was that was trump and and i remember going to bed every single sunday so nervous because every monday he would announce something new with the china tariffs and it was really hard because i built this brand with integrity and with this one woman in china this family-run company so the obvious thing people are saying to me is move from china get a factory somewhere else and it's like but these people literally like my family like if i don't put an order in next month like their business they're like they only make for odd muse like this is insane i can't leave them so i was just stuck and i think i could have been anywhere in the world but i was in new york and i feel like it just kind of ruined my experience in the u.s but i do keep saying to myself i've got another new york chapter in me because i didn't get to do that how i wanted to do it like i'm a fashion girl at a core like i deserved my dream year in new york and i didn't get it so yeah i get asked a lot about maintaining friendships when you're building a business right especially when you are transitional and you're like able to pick up and move how do you think about friendships and being transitional and putting in the time to be able to have those relationships when you are focused on building your business right now okay this is such a fun thing for busy women today me and my friends do this thing called a wednesday waffle so every single wednesday we send each other a minute long video note and we only talk about ourselves in that minute we don't ask we just say this is what i've been doing this week and we spend a whole minute telling us each other what's going on and that is how i stay so connected to my best friends and and i mean that sounds really silly but it's 2026 and that's how we like i want to know what my friends are doing and and i love to say i all my friends and family i like take along with me like if there's ever an event or there's ever something that i can share with my friends and family like we're doing it like everyone gets to enjoy odd muse and the way it's changed my life so yeah but wednesday waffle is a good one do you know what a waffle is what i eat like a pancake nice so wednesday waffle is like when you waffle you just like talk too much that's so me except i've had to train myself okay so i have to stop talking if you're like talking too much you're waffling so that's that unlocks what wednesday waffle means you're probably really confusing me okay but yeah if you're waffling you're just talking too much and you send it in a group chat yeah just a wednesday waffle do any of your industry friends or best friends sell a ton of odd muse yeah yeah isabel sells a lot of odd muse it's very like her style like super super capsule and i mean yeah whenever i meet someone in the industry the first thing i do is like kick them out with a new wardrobe as you should as you but i want to do that and i think that's the reason it actually works really well because i have sat there and actually thought about the pieces that not the pieces that i want to sell like there's there's a few things in there that are just not in stock and i went through the ends of the earth to try and get them for you like you can't even link it and sell it at the moment because i can't get them for you um but it is really just super intentional like what i want them to wear um so yeah it's never to like sell it's because i want to share odd muse with the world and i know it's gonna do great things for the wardrobe do you sell the most odd muse yeah i do and who's right after you who's right after me you know what the influencer side of things or the creative side of things is super new i've only just hired a head of influencer it's all just been like organic random moments until now and i've only just hired a head of influencer and i've only just hired a head of influencer um but i'm like every week when we do trade i'm the biggest like on the shop i'm the number one and i like it that way yeah because no one's gonna sell your brand like you and i think that should always be the way but i mean i mean there's so many us creators like you know like acquired style whenever she posts it goes insane like there's so many like huge girls like that but in terms of actually like building that into a strategy that's really new for odd muse which i love because that's when we're talking about that 100 million how much am i going to unlock there if i've done 30 without an influencer strategy all we've done is have like a shop my account and like make sure that earning commission when they sell odd muse there's been no strategy there so i'm really excited i'm learning about that a lot more because up until now we've just like sent product out and just hope that you'd like it we need to talk about bentley right now because bentley has collabed with you joe and the juice and gestalt guide i'm like who is running this at bentley this luxury car brand that's one i love the bentley relationship because one thing i say about odd muse is for our younger consumer it invites you into a world that really didn't really care before and i had a very open conversation with bentley and i said i don't think i'm going to sell any bentley's for you but i'm going to make it look really chic i don't know if my customers buying bentley's yet but they're gonna like and that's how obvious makes them feel like they're gonna be in a bentley one day and like even the first bentley collab we did was the bentley booth so everyone come to the new york store and had like a photo booth in the bentley and like all these girls are like i've never sat in a bentley booth and i'm like oh my god i've never sat in a bentley before and i'm like neither like everyone so i think i love how bentley lets us invite our customers into this luxury world i mean who doesn't love a bentley i just asked all of you guys this one question what is the one thing holding you and your team back from using ai properly the answers were fascinating because everyone was basically circling the same problem the same one that i had they don't know where to start people said things like we don't know the how to set up an ai agent our systems don't talk to each other i think every company today needs someone thinking about this properly how can ai save time or increase output how can it make your business smarter without replacing the human judgment that actually makes the work really good and unique that is where our sponsor fiber pro is so valuable because it connects you with vetted specialists who understand ai and more importantly understand how to turn it into a real outcome for your business so instead of your team trying to figure it out how to do it alone you can bring in expert talent who can move quickly plug into what you're building and help you use ai in a way that actually works visit pro.fiber.com to learn more i'm in my luteal phase we all know that point in our cycle where our body is basically like please do not make this any harder than it needs to be but during that time i still want to move my body i want to go for a walk i want to get outside maybe stretch but i am not forcing a high intensity workout when my body is asking for something to do and i'm not forcing a high intensity workout when my body is asking for something kinder and softer and that is where lululemon just gets it so right and their groove relaxed cinch pant is exactly the kind of thing i want to wear on those days it has this oversized relaxed fit so there's actually space for your body to move and breathe nothing feels too tight or restrictive it's perfect for that lower impact movement it's made with their nulu fabric and has a super soft barely there feeling i only just learned that when lululemon does colors they do pops and they sell out so much faster than i realized lululemon offers free returns too so there's never a risk risk if you decide to change your mind. So head to lululemon.com to get your hands on their groove relaxed cinch pants. Hiring now? I feel like that's why we got along so well, because our missions are so aligned. Everything you're saying around these girls, I'm like, I have tried to democratize the access in rooms that I have crawled my way into, gotten into, and in a way that's so approachable and digestible. But it has been met with a lot of criticism in the past. A lot of people that I would say are gatekeepers and like things being kept a certain way to be like, stop doing what you're doing because I don't like that people get access to this. Have you ever been met with the same sort of? Absolutely. And I think as you grow, it's just, especially when you're posting online, it's just something that happens to everyone. And that's what I tell myself, this is just normal. This is just the reality, unfortunately. Like, I really think that the way people are allowed to have these platforms and speak so crazy about people will be something that we look back on in like 10, 20 years time. And we're like, how did we let that happen? Like, you know, when we look back on all like the tabloids and how they used to scrutinize women, I think in 10, 20 years time, we're going to have conversations like how the hell in this world of 2026 and AI, do we still let someone with a fake account hurl abuse on something that they know nothing about? Like I had someone, the other day, when I posted my, I had a Forbes article go out about how like I bootstrapped to 30 million and someone commented like, fake account, obviously, and said, you should check company's house. She only finished on 3 million profit. That's amazing, by the way. I'm happy with my 3 million profit. What's wrong with 3 million profit? I always call these, this person, Martin from Sussex. I don't know why. So I'm like, Martin from Sussex, where's your 3 million? Like, how can you criticize a woman for only, who says the words just 3 million? That is shocking to me. And even if I, sometimes I have to go back because I'm like, no, this is just like stupid now. Like, if you're really factually incorrect, I do every like once in a blue moon, I go back. And, and even if I turned over 30 million and made no profit, I still found 200,000 people in that year to buy my product. Whether I made no money or not, I did something right. I got 200,000 people to buy my product in one year. So I'm like, people just don't get it, but they're given this confidence through these like empty platforms that have no real consequence. So I, um, it's taken me a minute, but I've just learned that it is just a reality and we're all doing something odd. How do you, cause you said earlier in the conversation that you kind of feel the highs and the lows, which I deeply feel. Mm-hmm. Like I can be on cloud nine and then one thing happens and I am like, it's all going away and it's all terrible. And I find it hard. But I think that level of passion is what fuels you to the high moment. So I've always like really like dogged myself down for being like a super sensitive person, but I'm like, no, this level of passion has this whole other side where it's like, it has driven the business. So like I can be, I can feel everything, but I can also like take it one without the other. I really feel like that. You can't be so passionate about your business without being so sensitive and so susceptible to what happens. So that's taken me a long time because I've always thought it was a problem in me, but I'm telling myself that like how sensitive I am and how much I actually care is my superpower in this business, because there's been so many times where it would have been easier to quit. Like 2025 would have been easier to quit. It would have been a whole thing that's happening. I don't understand what Trump could do and politics and all these things. I've just had my head in the sand building this business for the last five years. I can't deal with this. It would have been so easier to quit. So I really pride myself on the fact that every single time, no matter how long I've got, I've just got back up again. I've got straight back up for work again the next day at 6am. How do you stay on top of that type of, not to sound nerdy, but like geopolitical change now, now that you've been in that space where I had no idea. I had no idea that this could affect my business. Like how do you choose your information diet or the things that you're doing to stay in touch with like the pop culture of the woman you're talking to, but the lens of a CEO that's thinking about building a global brand? I think still to this day, like I don't really get too deep into what is going on in the world like I should. Like I still should. I feel like I should have learned more about what Trump can do and what the effects of this, but also like. I recognize that all that stuff last year ruined my creativity. So my managing director, my operations director, they know everything and they're going to alert me if there's anything to expect. And there has to be with founders, when you are running a business of this size now, if you've got a good team there, they know to kind of keep your head in the clouds a little bit because I'll have to show up for this brand every single day. Like if Trump's going to do something volatile tomorrow, they're not going to tell me before I come on this podcast. If it's going to really affect the business, we're going to have a chat about it at the end of the day, or they're going to pick and choose their times because we have seen such a positive impact when I, when I'm feeling good, Odd Muse is doing good. Like there's this weird, other founders will feel the same. There's like this weird synergy between where you are in your life and how your business is doing. So yeah, I think it's important to have a good team and have that covered in your business, but you have to allow, you have to have a good team and have that covered in your business, but you have to allow, yourself to be, especially if you're creatively fueling your business, you have to forgive yourself and have your head in the clouds a little bit because otherwise there's not going to be good product or good marketing going out. Especially when you're the creative force behind it. Exactly. What do you think the role of a supportive partner is in that pursuit of keeping your heads a little in the clouds and just like having a solid family life? So important. Like that to me is like, my parents didn't have any money to give me, like love and support and stability is like the best currency. And I never, ever like take that for granted. Like I know I wouldn't have the business I have today if I didn't have just solid friends, solid family. And even my partner, I've been with my partner for like 10 years. He was like on the floor with me at 3am making this like shit little box that I made for my end of year project at university. Like it was a shoe wear brand and we like made the packaging like at like 3am the next morning I was presenting it. So he's been there from the very beginning. And I think all girls in their 20s, like we waste so much time on like people. We waste so much time on crap friends and crap boys. And I just, I was able to solely focus on my business because I just made really right decisions with good people. And I think my parents taught me what to look for in people and what to enjoy. And I think my parents have always really taught me to just really be curious about others. And I think being interested in others and genuinely like not really bothered about talking about myself too much and really just like, what do you do? Tell me everything. And wanting to learn from people has just really made building this business quite seamless for me at times. I just started a bit of controversy by saying that my age gap relationship actually sets me up for success because I can be very selfish right now. And my partner is not focused on who's going to be the entrepreneur. Like he's done his thing. And so for me, it's like his attention, his time is so focused on like, literally, like, how can I think about my business? And like, what can we do? And I think I'm so curious because you guys are a similar age. We're a similar age, yeah. How do you think about being driven, masculine in work, successful, ambitious, in terms of having someone in a similar age relationship? I think it's important to say like, it hasn't been easy. Like there's been times where it's been like, even when we moved to New York, like I had to say to him, like the only way we can do this is if you can do it. If you come and work for Odd Muse for a year. And the first thing was like, I'm not working for my girlfriend. I don't want to do that. What am I going to tell my friends? I'm not doing that. And I said to him, okay, but in 20 years time, are we going to say, oh, you worked for Odd Muse for a year? Or are we going to say, oh my God, we was young and we was out every night in Manhattan and we just lived our best life. Like, what are we going to do? And I always, I've had to remind him so many times over the years, like don't listen to the naysayers. And like to our core, we know that kids from like a small town in Essex, everything is so cool that we do like, and that we never lose sight of that. Like we're so, we're so happy to be on this journey. And I think, again, it comes from like really wanting to share that success with him. We're now hitting a point where I'm like happy with where I am at. And I am really focusing on like how we could like take him to the next level. And he's, we're like renovating properties together and we're building up him a property of his own. And so I just think you can't do it without real love. Like I want that for him. I'm not in competition with him and I'll share everything with him. He would do the exact same for me. If Odd Muse was his, if Odd Muse was his, we would live a very different life. he probably wouldn't like have me working or anything like that I know that I would obviously work but I think it just takes real love and my sister always says that Josh is just like my person at the end of the day where I can just forget everything like I will I in the last five years I've had such a crazy time building this business but as soon as I walk through the door like everything is silly again and we're just together and there's nothing else going on and even that time in New York like it was so stressful like half of my business is failing I've got an empty store in New York but he's like let's get on a seat like where are we going tonight like just forget about it let's do it that support's been really valuable to me um but it hasn't been easy like you get a lot of people that think it's super strange at the moment I'm in a relationship where I earn more money than the man and that is really uncomfortable for people to get their head around um but we're on this earth for a very long time I believe in him as much as he's believed in me over the years and he's going to be super successful and it's turning so 31% of women in the UK now out earn their partner in the US it's 37% okay and 26% in Canada interesting I think that people are uncomfortable when things are new yeah but if you actually understand women's potential even if you look at like women public market CEOs the way that they lead the way that their business success is it is not crazy that women are turning into these uber successful business leaders because we lead through what I believe even the next generation wants like vulnerability and emotion and the ability to relate to people yeah you seem to not care about what people think about you is that a skill or is that something that you were born with no that's a skill that I've learned 100% I that's a skill new 2026 skill and not something I was born with I've always cared way too much about what people think and but I love that I love that I'm giving off that energy because I'm really trying so thank you for saying that because I give off like the best energy oh thank you yeah I for the minute I met you I mean I actually didn't buy the brand five years ago or whatever for you I had no idea who you were I didn't know who you were I didn't know who you were I didn't know who you were I didn't know who you were I didn't know who you were I love that though yeah and then I I think it was like I had started hearing about you when I signed with Stephen I had heard about you more and then I over the last few months had been like following and following and like become obsessed with you and then I got to meet you at can and we just bonded so hard and we had a really interesting conversation too about weddings and like the pressure of that where are you at with that now oh I still haven't started planning it I think I just think for the first time in six years since starting this business I know what it's like to wake up and not feel stressed and I feel like I don't want to I'm scared to invite the stress of planning a wedding in so yeah I'm unsure but I've made a decision that at the end of this year I'm going to do a big engagement party because I love a party and I'm going to decide whether that makes me want to have a wedding or whether that scratches the itch and I'll just go down the registry office at the town hall that's my decision but I mean I've been with Josh like 10 years so we're in no rush I kind of almost I was talking about this last night I'm like no I think I want to get married when like a designer is going to give me a custom dress and it's vogue weddings vibes so I can wait I need I want to I want to keep elevating and I want him to be super happy with where he is like at the moment he's building himself and I'm I feel like in the next year or two he I really believe he's going to be super super successful and I know for him that is he's going to be really he's really happy now but I know I want him to be super happy in his career so we're just kind of in no rush so right now what is on your big vision board just that hundred million figure like I really and like I said earlier it's so much more than a hundred million in sales on Shopify it is how much it unlocks how many lessons I'm going to have to learn how many new departments I'm going to build how many senior hires I'm going to bring in and learn from that my team are going to learn from this core office like it's something like this is like so inspiring to me and even I've just started a podcast I even see in this set I'm like I'm just so excited for how much how elevated you can become through just having a bigger budget so I love you so that's what I think about when I think about that hundred million figure and that's why yeah that's why that's the main thing that I think about but there's so much to that I love it okay Amy we're gonna do some rapid fire okay ready Amy's mail yeah what is the last thing you put on your credit card okay I bought the Chloe jelly sandals you did they're so cute they kind of look like they're from the Disney shop but I love them the tortoise shell ones and yeah I wish I had a better answer for that but I just got myself the Chloe jellies love what is the last most expensive thing oh I just went crazy in Paris with Isabel for like the first time ever we got a YSL bag each and some denim jeans and I thought that was pretty cool iconic had loads of champagne in the store started telling the sales advisor how much Saint Laurent means to us and we bought our first designer bag ourselves from Saint Laurent he probably thought get these crazy girls out of the store but that was probably the most expensive transaction recently love okay you can only wear one for the rest of your life you can only wear one for the rest of your life you can only wear one for the rest of your life earrings sunglasses purses or rings probably sunglasses I feel like you can just unlock a new personality with a good pair of shades can I mix and match or is it just one sunglass what's your sunglass brand oh so many I'm loyal to none I love so I go like I can have a pair of H&M sun ears I can have a pair of Chanel's like I love mixing I love having a million sunglasses like I'm packed for this trip I have like a perspex case of just sunglasses I don't I'm not loyal to one we love that um okay you have to start a brand in your 20s are you moving to New York or LA New York what's the first thing you do every morning oh I sit there for like 20 minutes and just silence like I need that 20 minutes completely on my own no phone no phone nothing I just sit with a coffee and like sometimes even close my eyes on the sofa I just need that 20 minutes of silence in the morning love that you can only visit one place for the rest of your life whereas it oh that's a good one probably New York you know I had Trump ruined it for me last year but I am just a different woman in New York I dress better I work harder like I'd get it all done probably New York you can only work with one influencer for the rest of your life myself love you um okay who is your favorite comfort creator in the UK and in the US I love this question um UK is Lorna Lorna previously Lorna Lux her Instagram name is now Lorna always been she's been a huge part of the odd news journey um but she has always been such an inspiring comfort influence I love her so much and what about the US I love the twins I love I love I love um Danielle and Bridget I just love seeing what they do every day and how much they achieve in one day is insane it's insane they're just running on just craziness like ice coffees they're just brilliant you can do a collab with a high luxury fashion brand who is it my main thing right now this is probably a bit specific but I really want to get in Harrods and I really want to do more like odd news lux range like we're releasing a 100% suede jacket that's going to retail for like 600 pounds I really want to keep going with that so I get in Harrods that's my main thing I can't think of like an actual brand because I feel like I'm not going to be able to find anything that's going to look like that for me like the Bentley thing is so cool to me um but I mean second to that it's got to be Saint Laurent like the structure everything is just super high fashion and I love that okay we do these on HSR HSR love notes you know where they are no okay it's like an affirmation to retrain your brain you can only tell yourself one HSR love note for the rest of your life what is it I've got one thing to tell myself money is easy I always like I always used to think about how money can so easily be spent so why can't it easily be earned and I always used to tell myself I used to say to myself I am in receiving mode money is easy I used to say that to myself every morning about odd news sales and I think that's kind of just unlocked this like really positive energy that I have with money and receiving it saving it for this like saving that rainy day fund cash flow so I would always say money is easy but I feel like I need to do something that's a bit more like girly no I actually love that I think girls are so afraid of talking about money yeah actually giving people tools of like how to even start talking about it is really helpful yeah it's a lot of people ostrich yeah like they just put their head in the sand they're like I don't want to look at it I'm gonna go short-term gratification yeah not right now and ultimately that only sets you back exactly so money is easy just tell yourself that love it okay you have to title this season of your life Amy what is it called I'm going to go short-term gratification not right now and ultimately that only sets you back it's like a rebirth but what's the chica word for Amy 2.0 or something Amy 2.0 is 100% the era the chapter Amy Small, where can people find you? So my brand is obviously Opemuse London on all channels and it is at amysmallx on all social channels. And my sub stack, I love my sub stack. I have to shout out my sub stack, which is amysmallx again. And how can people help you? How can HSR help you? Just continuing to spread this hot, smart, rich message. Like I loved when you stood up in Cannes and really spoke about your mission because it is something that we are, I just feel like more women need to hear it. We need to be more comfortable with our success. I love that t-shirt that you wear, future Nepo baby parent. Like I love that because why do we slander Nepo babies? Like their parents have done cool shit. So I think just teaching women to be unapologetic is just so important and it's so inspiring. And I've just, I've seen how much it can unlock for me when I just like step into that hot, smart, rich era. So that's like what you were saying. It's the odd muse effect. But for me, it's hot, smart, rich energy. Yes. Like whenever I sign emails, I'm like sending you hot, smart, rich energy. Yeah. And I think people for so long were like, this is so weird. And now you get it. You're like, it's embarrassing to it's not right. It's embarrassing to it's not. Yeah. Amy, we love you. Thank you so much for coming on. I can't wait to wear all my stuff. Yay. You can have so many pictures. I want to see you in the clothes. Yeah, I'll be, I'll be linking shop my. Oh yeah. You'll be like number two. I'd love that if it was me and you. I'd love that. Oh, let's do it. Love you. Thank you so much. Y'all know I love a mood board. So everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing? There are one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. 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