Speaker 1Your website needs to be done in such a way that is actually visible to large language models and not just human beings. And we have seen a lot of businesses who have seen around 80% drop in their searches. The way a large language model would understand the authenticity or the relevance, it has got access to the full internet. So it wants to understand what internet thinks about you, which means what media thinks about you, what people on Reddit think about you, what's on your website, how is it relevant to this particular customer. So it will find the person who is authoritative in that space and then recommend that business.
Speaker 2Hi, everyone, and welcome back to this latest episode of The Dumb Monkey Show. I'm your host, Davina Montgomery, and I'm joined by our co-host, as always, and founder of The Dumb Monkey Show, Amir Khatoub. Amir, how are you?
Speaker 1I'm great. How are you?
Speaker 2Not too bad. I think I've recovered from the Terminator apocalypse. I think. I think. Yes. I'm feeling pretty positive, so I feel like we're going to be okay. What would you like to talk about today?
Speaker 1Well, I would say it's not as depressing as the other one. I appreciate that. But it's still a huge change, and it's going to have a huge impact on the business. So we were living in a world where we said websites are the main face of your business. So generally, people would say, find me, you know, the best plumber in Geelong or something like that. If you didn't rank on Google, you didn't exist. Yes. And then they would go through Google searches, then go to your website, read about you, and then reach out to you. Now, the world that we are moving into is more and more people are using ChatGPT or Perplexity or any AI tools. So saying, hey, I need to do this project. Can you help me find someone? Or you don't even have to say, can you help me find someone? If you say, I'm looking to do this project, how much is it going to cost? Blah, blah, blah. So ChatGPT is going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what it looks like. Here's an image of. How your new deck is going to look like or whatever. And then it's going to say, can I suggest some people in your area who would be good at this? And then ChatGPT suggests those people or suggests those businesses based on its own knowledge, its own learning. And in some instances, you're not even going to their website to make a decision. Because what's happening now is that ChatGPT has introduced something called Marketplace or ChatGPT apps. So it's actually connecting with likes of Booking.com and Shopify. And we talked about this previously. But it's actually allowing you to place orders then and there. So what it means is that the amount of efforts that businesses spend in developing a great website, search engine optimization, all of those efforts can go in vain very quickly.
Speaker 2Yeah. This is really interesting. Yes. So I'm hearing a lot of noise about this too. So and particularly the search visibility. Yes. People are very worried.
Speaker 1They are. And they should be. Because another thing that has happened now is, you know, with Google earlier, you could have actually up to 100 searches. Yes. Now Google has restricted their search to 10. Yes. To prevent large language models from scraping Google's data. But what it means is that Google has also introduced something called AI search. Now, so and if they are rolling it out slowly, when you do a search, it actually gives you an option to just get an AI answer. Or sometimes you will get an AI answer in the beginning. Yes. So earlier, a lot of people would drive traffic to their blogs.
Speaker 2So the AI overview that people will be seeing now on their Google searches.
Speaker 1That's right. And now they're doing AI search similar to Publicity as well, which means that they would be seeing AI produced results rather than like the Google search results.
Speaker 2So if you're someone that's working in a business that is, has been, or is, has the potential to be affected by this lack of visibility, this change in how we find people. It's not the first time this has been raised as an issue in business in recent years. But let's assume that it's going to keep accelerating. What do you do?
Speaker 1So you would need to work on something. There are different terms to it. Some say it's large language model optimization. Some say AI engine optimization. Or you can say AI visibility. But now your website needs to be done in such a way. And it's not just website. That your brand is actually visible to large language models and not just human beings. So you are now developing your web presence, not for humans, but also for AI, large language models and AI agents. Because a lot of decisions that humans were making and you were building everything around human psychology. So you were doing like social media and your press release and things. How will people respond? How long will people be there?
Speaker 2What are the first messages they see? All of those things.
Speaker 1That's right. But if AI. Is actually making decisions on people's behalf and finding the most appropriate business. Which means that now your online presence needs to talk to AI as well. Needs to be able to read by AI.
Speaker 2So what would, what would, Chachibiti of Flexity, what would these AI models be looking at to make the decision of what they think is, how they come to the conclusion that these are the best answers to these searches?
Speaker 1So these searches are like the models are still evolving. But like how Google actually relied on keyword based search. So it would look at how many keywords are there in the pages, how many backlinks you have to your website. And there was some, some other factors out there, but the way a large language model will, would understand the authenticity or the relevance would be, because it has got access to the full internet. So it wants to understand what internet thinks about you, which means what media thinks about you. What? People on Reddit thinks about you, or also in terms of what's on your website, how is it relevant to this particular customer?
Speaker 2How you used to have a, an SEO strategy, a social media strategy, and whatever that was for your particular audience. Now you need to be thinking. An AI visibility strategy.
Speaker 1How can you be visible to AI? What it also presents is a great opportunity for a lot of businesses where SEO was difficult or they are new into the business. You need a lot of. Domain length and so on to be visible on through, through SEO. But I have seen and witnessed a lot of people like even sort of in our case, we are getting a lot more searches because of our online presence with the help of AI. And we see in our, whenever someone fills a form, a contact form, we capture what's, who's the referrer. And so chat GPT and public city are becoming those referrers because they are recommending us to the people.
Speaker 2That changes it a whole lot of things, doesn't it? Because we, we've had this before. We had businesses had to have a website and then if they, you know, if they went on Facebook, they, they didn't exist. And now all of a sudden that, that changed too. And every time the businesses, Google changed their search algorithm and everyone lost their minds because, you know, that dropped off the homepage. Is it more complex or is it more straightforward for businesses now?
Speaker 1I think it's more straightforward for someone who is ready to, and especially at this point of time, because there's not a lot of noise. A lot of businesses. I've not caught up to speed.
Speaker 2So what would you be recommending? What would some of the first steps be?
Speaker 1So the first step I would say is, of course, it's still important and relevant to have your website, but making sure that your website is readable by large language models. So one thing that was very important for search engine optimization was something called schema. So schema is, you know, how you put a content in your website that is readable by humans. You actually put a JavaScript content or JSON content. In the back end of that page or on the, on the HTML of that page that gives us structured response to large language models or someone who's searching for it. So for example, if you are a local business, there's a local business schema. If you are promoting an event, there's an event schema. So there's these schemas that you can place on, on your website. If your website is on WordPress, you actually support these schema. There are schema plugins as well, or you can actually get your web developer to incorporate them for you. And that's a good starting point. But then also how you have placed the structure on, on, on the website, a lot of SEO principles still remain, but a lot of web content accessibility guidelines, WCAG 2.1 is a standard that is developed for web accessibility so that people with different disabilities or people coming from different backgrounds can understand and read your website. So a lot of those accessibility principles actually apply. So making sure that you are actually following WCAG 2.1 guidelines.
Speaker 2I'm grinning at that because it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a pet, a pet hobby of mine from quite a long time ago, but it was, it was about accessibility, about accessible design, about accessible content. Because we, we tend to do that thing in, and this is, you know, I'm saying we, but I'll specifically say in the world of content producers, you know, people who work in marketing fields, in media fields. We tend to go. To the same way that things have been done. That's right. And not really give a lot of consideration to, you know, we, we live in a very culturally diverse and socially diverse place where there's people with accessibility and accessibility can come in all forms. As you say, it might be English, the second, third, fourth language. It might be that you have a form of reading, hearing, cognitive disability, something that changes the way that you need to absorb this information. And I was kind of saying, well, can you give it to me in its, in its, in its most simple form or in a way that's easy to digest? and easy to understand.
Speaker 1What you said is right. Like, it's like raw simple form it's like in the in the bare bones i just need to know the information communication
Speaker 2is actually not complicated yeah great communication is simple that's right if you see you know any form of things or people do things really well you see a you know a fantastic doctor if you see a brilliant builder if you see an artist that's you know that's really on their game they kind of make it look simple they do yes and it's no different to how we communicate and particularly how we communicate as businesses to our customers we tend to over complicate this a lot when we absolutely
Speaker 1shouldn't yeah and if you would have seen the websites like especially a trend that was like three or four years ago was to create those amazing beautiful experiences yeah they're very immersive and things are moving
Speaker 2everywhere and they're horrible to read and
Speaker 1that's right you
Speaker 2can't see it on your phone you have to be sitting on a certain size screen and it is terrible so
Speaker 1much of javascript effects going on and things flying around and so on and uh especially with the a lot of agency websites and fashion websites was very common the biggest problem with them was accessibility but some of like because we were uh i've immersed been immersed a lot in the accessibility space as well we audited some really big websites even if you go to harvey norman's current website uh it's not accessible and like there's a very simple test on your keyboard if you press tab because uh people who cannot use mouse or you cannot see they they use keyboard tab to actually access the website and such a simple thing to implement accessibility but a lot of websites do not have those so now the challenge would be that now ai would not be able to see a lot of your content as well what it means is that if it doesn't know that you exist it won't recommend you so if you are asking chat gpt uh saying can you find me this product or this service it wouldn't recommend you so the whole google search is going to shift from this keyword search to this ai search as well and then you've got then you will have these browsers so perplexity have got their browser which is comet which is uh uh similar to chrome but it's an ai based browser so if i type something in instead of opening it up a website it comes up with the suggestion first then chat gpt has launched atlas google chrome is working on their enhancing chrome to be an ai browser so every browser would have ai in it as well yes yeah
Speaker 2i'm gonna go off script here not that we had a script but um what sounds to me that that's pinged to me that's coming out of that is that it sounds like this shift into ai browsers might actually be really good for people living with a disability yes have the potential to be anyway 100 because as as kind of depressing as it is that a broad shift towards accessibility hasn't really happened even though we well and truly understand that when we do communicate anything we should be doing it for as broad a range of experience as possible yes hasn't really
Speaker 198 percent of websites in the world are not accessible exactly
Speaker 2exactly so we haven't done this for people even though we should yeah but i bet you that there'll be a whole lot of people who will for ai because they'll care about
Speaker 1the ranking they would yes and then but also these browsers would be better at taking the these crappy websites and being able to fetch information from those as well so it would definitely make uh it more accessible for the people yeah but not only for the people with disability but a lot of people who come from different culture different languages they can't read properly they can't write properly and things like that because now you can ask your browser yes she
Speaker 2is so much of the internet is based around
Speaker 1english it is yes yes and it's funny that when i'm like when i'm talking to chat gbt at home i talk to it in hindi which is like an indian language because that's more natural to me i'm able to express my emotions and so on and it's fun talking to chat gbt in hindi and then get the work done so the language is not a barrier anymore as well that's one of those
Speaker 2really nice things that's one of those lovely things about the potential of ai and i think it's an unintended consequence yes certainly not what i was developed for oh
Speaker 1yeah yes yeah i don't know what was developed for i think it was just some researchers trying to find better ways of yeah yeah of course the extension of pattern
Speaker 2recognition yes yeah but it's a nice thought that actually we might have a more accessible future i might
Speaker 1digress a bit more over here because you talked about how you know what ai was developed for it's funny uh you know if you ask how large language models operate or how they make decisions and things like that no one can actually explain the actual logic of how they operate or how they come up with an answer they were developed by humans to to be trained on a data set but you cannot really trace back how they are actually making that a whole lot of large language models
Speaker 2happen within or algorithms happen within black box functions yes which is a nice way of just saying it it happens magic happens somewhere we don't really know how it happens yeah
Speaker 1because they have created their own neural networks their own sort of graphs of knowledge and things like that so it is like that black box yeah so it's it's very difficult to actually explain if i ask this question why does it give back this answer you can estimate and predict and things like that yeah there's some
Speaker 2really interesting cutting edge ai research that that delves very deeply into these spaces but yeah it's it's interesting yes
Speaker 1and so coming back to our topic uh in terms of when ai is asking who is the best uh banker to deal with here or the most friendly banker things like that so earlier if you were doing it on google it would just look for the keywords on the website and who had like a lot of keywords a lot of that website up and which
Speaker 2ended up becoming a situation where people that had big marketing budgets big communication budgets would spend a lot of money on their websites that have seo specialists they would have you know a really targeted social media strategy and that had these teams of people working to give them google home page yes like first page presence and you
Speaker 1know we being a smaller company in this largest where we like used to spend around ten thousand and that's that's very common like yeah for you to be ranking on the google that you you have to do that yeah but now because it's ai that's actually providing the the response to the people uh first of all seo is not going to cut it so which means if you rank well well on seo it doesn't mean that you would rank well on chat gpt and if you are a business leader listening to it think about the queries that people would actually ask chat gpt and see if if you rank up if you rank if you or if you're coming up in the the query or not
Speaker 2yeah i'm not gonna lie yeah i'm still right back at the beginning where i'm sitting there going hmm so if we've got ai browsers that are getting very clever yeah does this mean that i'll actually be able to start getting a bit more of an informed idea of how much if if a quote is a good quote yes if the price of a job is a good is a good price because there's a lot of there's a lot of mystery in the customer experience for business i mean if i'm if i'm going out there and asking someone to build a deck for me yeah how do i know if that's a fair and reasonable quote how do i find the people who are going to be good and do a good job but then how do i know that how much i should be paying
Speaker 1and that's where ai is really good because you can scrape through the reviews it can actually uh scrape through the the prices that have been out there on internet and can actually tell you whether that quote is right or not and
Speaker 2our listeners that are incredibly cluey bunch so i know that they're doing this immediately yes they're changing the way that they think about their business decisions straight away just on the basis of that absolutely yes
Speaker 1and uh so what you need to do as a business owner is you need to ensure that you are providing enough information out there so that ai can understand about your business so you can't just be web best web designer melbourne stuffed around in your website anymore you need to tell what your process is how you're thinking what's the story behind your brand how you're going to work with your customers what are the case studies you need to ensure that people are talking about you on the forums or you have enough information out there on the forum you are quite active on social media you're taking the the video content converting it into text so it's actually about developing a strategy so that ai can look at multiple touch points and understand okay this is the right business for uh for what this customer is looking to achieve but also the difference is you know how in keyword search if you needed uh someone to fix your tab for example you would just say plumber in my area heightened right but in chat gpt you wouldn't say that what you might do is you might take a photograph of your say and say can can i fix it chat gpt might say no you can't fix it you might need a plumber do you want me to suggest a plumber who can help you with that now when chat gpt is going to suggest a plumber it's not just going to look for plumber it's going to identify the people who have had history of fixing those tabs or who have given an instruction on how to fix your tab yourself or something like that so it will find the person who is authoritative in that space and then recommend that business so it becomes more and more important for you as a business owner or a marketer to put a lot of authoritative content out there that's educating people so ai can understand that yes i can trust this person because this person is providing information which sounds right so i'm going to recommend this particular person or the business
Speaker 2For a lot of people in business, there's that, there's been a long history of trying to keep information in yes i want to protect my information and now we're going to be asking business people and you know people within those businesses to say actually now we want you to share your knowledge which is actually great i mean it's the absolute ground of really effective business communication is don't tell people how good you are tell them what you know about something so they know how good you are show them don't tell
Speaker 1them yeah and our biggest principle that works on social media is that if you've got an expertise exactly share your process with the people and show how you can do it people who can't pay who wouldn't be your customer anyways might follow it but the people who can pay are going to contact you and say i have seen you doing that and i really need your help i trust that you're really good at this you've shown me that you're
Speaker 2really good at this fantastic and
Speaker 1that's like that's our strategy with the whole dumb monkey thing as well like we've got the academy out there we've got the courses out there we want people to learn we've got the podcast we want them to learn to learn to learn to learn to learn to learn and implement as much as you can and then there would be some people who have who can pay us who are willing to invest they can then reach out to us and say we need we need but not everyone's
Speaker 2going to be your
Speaker 1customer anyway absolutely yes
Speaker 2yeah why not share the knowledge that's right yes
Speaker 1otherwise i would keep like if we just reserve our knowledge and keep it to ourselves we're not telling the world and attention is such an important thing in this day and age because there's so much very valuable
Speaker 2commodity and it is really hard to get
Speaker 1absolutely because earlier you could do google ads and get attention from there that's the thing
Speaker 2though you can't just it money's not going to be enough you can't
Speaker 1purchase attention yeah you
Speaker 2can't just sort of send it out there and and buy frontline space anymore that's right how are you going to tell people about who you are and
Speaker 1what you do yeah and then it's not about businesses communicating it's now about people in the business communicating about the business because first of all people don't care about companies people care about people yeah and secondly from ai perspective as well ai is interested in what people are actually saying after talking about it so if you are a business leader or a ceo or cmo you need to put yourself out there and talk about what's unique how you do things as well and just again some chat gpt generated stuff would not work it out because it's if it's an ai if chat gpt reading your website and it's written by chat gpt it would know that it's generic stuff right and every website has been written by chat gpt what's the difference
Speaker 2oh my goodness and isn't that just a rabbit hole the amount of of ai generated content that's on the internet is staggering yes and you
Speaker 1know who's best at recognizing that's the i generated
Speaker 2chat gpt no one knows it better than yes yes it would it
Speaker 1would recognize that's written by uh chat gpt and it's generic stuff yeah so if you're putting a service page out there where you're saying uh we provide best services professional blah blah blah all of those analogies it's not gonna cut no you have to tell what is your unique process on how you do that what are some failures that you face what has been some fun stuff success stories who's the person who's actually involved like they like cats or whatever you need to add that personality into your content so that ai can see that there's a difference and then recommend you yes yeah yeah how
Speaker 2fascinating it is
Speaker 1yes and it's fascinating so all those poor marketing people
Speaker 2that are like you know you're not going to be able to do it you're not going to be able to do it had to switch over and become seo optimization specialist they're not going to have to become ai optimization specialist
Speaker 1yes and right now this term is being used as like this is ai optimization it's its own field and some people are trying to develop agencies around that the reality the reality is that it's it's actually about writing the content for human there's some technicalities involved in there there is some technical stuff that's actually involved but most of it is like the basic principles that that that you need to ensure a simple way is you can actually go on chat gpt and public city type different queries and see if you are being recommended or not i asked uh tried to ask chat gpt who's the ai expert in geelong and was coming up with some other names some professor or something like that that was i was really angry with it like it was like damn those people and they look
Speaker 2crazy research and
Speaker 1then i asked like who's your boss next time i ask you about who's the who's the the expert tell me now so but it's a fun exercise do it and do it for different queries around your business and see how your business is ranking up and then what other tweaks that you can make the second thing is what's going to happen with the e-commerce yes this
Speaker 2is really interesting because
Speaker 1e-commerce because it's it's
Speaker 2knife edge you can
Speaker 1disappear very easily yes yes and like we had these amazing e-commerce websites that transformed the whole retail sector now it has got two biggest challenges or two biggest competitors first is how chat gpt has formed this connection with shopify and every large language model would try to do that what it means is that you would be able to search a product on chat gpt then place an order on chat gpt itself without ever visiting a website google tried to do it with their merchant center as well but i think it's gonna mature it
Speaker 2hasn't yeah it hasn't really worked that well and it's interesting isn't it because would there used to be in in the world of retail or in that it used to be very much around um brand loyalty was a was a really big thing and even if you if you look at individual brands really relied heavily on brand loyalty but then even things like you know maya and david jones that have had to you know that are fighting in this brand new world they used to rely on people going oh well i trust you and i'll go there that's right we'll go to a specific site or we'll go to a think of any of them like yeah yes yeah they're everywhere but that's changing because it's people are becoming product loyal or not loyal like they're just product interested so the focus has shifted away from don't tell me don't tell me how amazing you are i kind of know what product it is and i've got ai that's going to help me find the product that actually will work for me that's right and then it's where can i find it
Speaker 1and then earlier we thought that people are not going to buy clothes online and they did but like a lot of people still want to see how it's gonna like once they try it on how it's gonna look like but now with the new nano banana model from google you can actually and we recently implemented on one of the website you can just add your photograph on the item and you can put the clothes on yourself it's like really accurate
Speaker 2that's just an exercise in like just doom scrolling though isn't it god we're gonna get down that rabbit hole
Speaker 1yes so how's that gonna help us with
Speaker 2our productivity i mean we're all
Speaker 1gonna be shopping online but that's what what we are gonna do like if we do not have jobs and we by government yeah we're gonna sit there
Speaker 2and look at ourselves in pretty
Speaker 1close yeah
Speaker 2i think we can do better but anyway no but it is fascinating that is so you're right yeah you can you can put your photo into nano banana you can get a product and say right i want to know how
Speaker 1this will look on me but your browser or chat gpt would already have your photograph it will just say okay this is how it's gonna look like would you like me to i would highly recommend doing
Speaker 2this before you go to the hairdresser these you'll go to the barber these days you know like test out your haircut before you actually get it yes
Speaker 1that's important and before even you get a tattoo or something like a lot of people go really wrong with the tattoo it's life-changing
Speaker 2yes oh that's so yeah like
Speaker 1if my kid wants to get a tattoo i would probably give him like a ray-ban like ar glasses or something like that so that you can you can keep seeing that tattoo for a month or two months or three months or something like that and once they are happy with it they can get an actual tattoo yeah
Speaker 2yeah try before you buy
Speaker 1yeah so coming back to the e-commerce yeah so now uh you are able to place the orders from the chat gpt or or whatever cloud or your browser which means your website starts to become irrelevant because all of the transactions happening through that but then also there's a huge power that is now being controlled by these large language models because now they are actually recommending the products and so on so what do you do as a as a as a as a retailer or as as a brand owner in that case so first thing is to you have to build that brand try and build that brand loyalty so that people are actually so if you and gary we talks about it all the time if what people are gonna say is i've got these many people coming to my party order me 10 pizzas or something like that and ai is gonna be able to be doing those placing those orders unless someone says i order me 10 dominoes pizzas because you have built that brand loyalty ai is gonna choose its own it might do baba pizza or whatever it wants to do so how do you build that brand loyalty the second thing that's gonna compete with the e-commerce is uh social life selling which is not ai but an alternative to ai would be people buying from the influencers yeah it's a big thing in china have you seen those videos where you've got this one influencer like 15 20 mobile phones they're just selling the stuff it's getting big in us and it's gonna come to australia as well because uh uh social selling is coming to tiktok yeah it's gonna be a whole component around live social selling where people are just selling stuff
Speaker 2online yeah so that's like it's like marketplace but online like a
Speaker 1traditional marketplace it is yes so it's it's gonna be it's like those tvsn ads that we used to see yes yeah but instead of calling you can just watch it on tiktok people wearing it you can ask questions about it and then you can place orders and then you can place orders and then you can her on TikTok and Instagram and things
Speaker 2like that. That's really interesting. I mean, it leads me to the idea of, well, what does that mean for business models like Facebook Marketplace, like eBay? I think eBay
Speaker 1and Facebook Marketplace, they need to somehow, the biggest competitor to someone like eBay would be these social selling platforms. Yes. Yeah. They don't have anything else to fear about, but these social selling platforms.
Speaker 2But they're growing and the trend's on, right?
Speaker 1There is. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And like social selling is, like live selling is not even started in Australia, but seeing how big is it in China, it's growing in India, it's growing in US, you would start to see here in Australia as well.
Speaker 2So what about the AI browsers and shopping through AI now? What does that mean for the traditional, you know, we're saying it's traditional, but really they haven't been around that long.
Speaker 1I would say there are two class of shoppers or two classes of shopping that would emerge. So for like fashion, lifestyle. And people who are influenced by others or people who are like, especially young people on social media, they would be buying a lot of stuff from TikTok and Instagram. Like my wife, like she watches things on TikTok and she keeps on sending it to me and then we are placing orders on Teemu or Amazon or eBay. We don't know how much of our buying behavior is actually influenced by social media at the moment. But then like there would be people like me who just. Just want to get the stuff and especially for consumables, like things that we don't care about making. There are a lot of things that we consume and we really don't care about deciding on what color it needs to be and so on. I'll just say, you know, get me the best microphone or get me the best headset or things like that or work with ChatGPT in terms of what we need and let it place the order. So I think both of these things are going to have their own place and it's going to be interesting to see that competition happening. But in both of the things. The website, the e-commerce website doesn't have a future.
Speaker 2Yeah. All right. So here's another interesting one. In Australia, we have very famously internationally rare monopoly of a couple of supermarkets or a couple of big retail companies. Yeah. What happens with them?
Speaker 1Have you seen the news about. Was it our prime minister who is introducing Lulu supermarket? No, I haven't seen it. Okay. I think it was our prime minister. He went to United UAE or Middle East. It's a big supermarket over there called Lulu. Lulu. Yeah. So they are actually inviting Lulu to come in here and try to break that monopoly.
Speaker 2Break the monopoly.
Speaker 1Yes. Yeah. But also like.
Speaker 2But we know that within the monopoly. So what feeds the monopoly, what enables those sort of monopolies is that the supermarkets, they're not growing a whole lot of their own food. They're not producing a whole lot of things. So they're reliant on a whole lot of companies, business people. Growers, suppliers that are feeding in and providing them all into the one place.
Speaker 1Yeah. And because they own the supply chain, they are able to almost like negotiate the prices down. But is there a
Speaker 2possibility that AI shopping is going to enable these, sort of empower these suppliers to take a bit of their own control back?
Speaker 1Yes. If AI is in the right hand. Yeah. If Jad GPT. Doesn't create a partnership with Coles or Walmart. Let's face it.
Speaker 2Let's assume that that will happen. Yes. And that's really interesting, isn't it? So we've got the big shifts. And we've talked about this a bit about the. One of the problems with AI is that it has a tendency to have larger amounts of money going into fewer hands. This is a problem for economy. It's how economies collapse. Yeah. Let's face it. Go back through history. Economic history will tell you this. Money likes to move around. and as societies as economies we rely on money being able to move around so are we just handing a situation where we're going to allow the biggest companies with the deepest pockets the biggest media companies with the deepest pockets to have more and more lion's share of attention dollars spent market share we
Speaker 1can end up in this position because for example shopify came up as an e-commerce platform that could empower businesses but if shopify has a partnership with chat gpt which means shopify has got a lot of power similarly etsy came up as a marketplace that's good for local people but if chat gpt is forming a partnership with etsy and shopify they become in a position where they are the preferred platforms what means is they can start to charge higher fees which they still charge i think they charge 10 percent of the transaction fees or something like that they start to increase their transaction fees up and up and up but for businesses and e-commerce businesses there's no other option for them because now you've got chat gpt yes yes yes you're not gonna be able to
Speaker 2compete with with that level of visibility
Speaker 1it is yes yeah so that's dark from that perspective but what chat gpt is saying they're creating their own app store uh which means how you they are connecting it to shopify you would be able to connect your own website or own app store and you would be able to connect your own website or own app store and you would be able to connect your own website or own app store and you would be able to connect your own interface to it yeah that's
Speaker 2going to be really interesting
Speaker 1yes so what you would need to and they've already launched there we are already playing with it so what we are now encouraging business to do do is that if you want your transactions to happen through chat gpt create a chat gpt app for your business so that at least you are still recommended by chat yeah you're still
Speaker 2you're you're still at least got some yes got some eyes yeah yeah that's going to be really interesting it's going to be really interesting to see what happens here and again i mean i think we raised in the last episode that that we're going to be able to do that so that's going to we are asking governments regulators um advisors yeah to the policymakers to sit down and really look at this stuff but wow goes deep doesn't
Speaker 1it it does yes and we
Speaker 2all need to eat that's right
Speaker 1so yes i think we'll all get to eat it's and i don't want to no but i mean
Speaker 2i mean but who are we
Speaker 1buying from yes when we talked about these larger businesses do we start to take control in our hands and try to do that like as like for example in australia we are trying to develop our own sovereign ai for example yeah that's right we were talking about uh small language models yes a small language model
Speaker 2so a unique product offering yeah business or someone particularly businesses and um and not sorry not just businesses i should broaden that out but if we think in the space of health care or anything that's dealing with people's personal information um there's a there's a shift towards small language models yes so small language models are the ones that are going to be the models that will give you responses based on you know a defined set of things but the model is actually downloaded onto your phone so if the model is downloaded onto your phone it's not pulling everything from the internet a it's not getting very confused about what it should be providing but b it's also protecting your data because your data is not leaving your phone so it's not cloud-based it's not you know yeah ideally these sort of systems housed on local servers if not but you know the issue with servers is the other one it's a deep field but yeah it's it's really interesting so things are
Speaker 1changing so you know where my hope is my hope is with things like perplexities what's difference between perplexity or chad versus chad gpt is chad gpt owns the large language model and they owns what what happens whereas perplexity is an interface which can search through chad gpt cloud grog internet and then provide a response from there so what it means is it doesn't have its own large language model so it's fetching information from different places so it's fetching information from different places so it's fetching information from different places and then perplexity is not going to be the only one that people would be creating more of these systems that you could use that almost puts the power back in the consumer's hand so what i would hate to see is chad gpt evolving to be a tool that everyone is using all the time because you do not want a tool that you are using to actually have the power in terms of the large language model itself as well
Speaker 2too much power in too few
Speaker 1hands yes yeah
Speaker 2or is that democratization and personalization of ai yeah is is one of the great hopes of ai
Speaker 1it is yeah and that's where i think things that can still use the power of these large language models yeah but put the power back in people's hand is going to be extremely important yeah i
Speaker 2agree absolutely agree well that's going to be a fascinating thing to watch um i really hope that we i'm sure we will be able to eat i hope that our farmers and suppliers are going to get fed along the way and that our e-commerce business i i'm very hopeful of the future of e-commerce where we can look after people more through ai than less yes well it's a little bit of hope for the future um but some really interesting things if you are a business leader if you are an influencer if you are someone particularly who's working in e-commerce i hope you've had a chance to have a look at this episode because there's been lots of really interesting and fascinating conversations that's come up into it and i feel like as always amir we've just scratched the surface there's so much more to talk about yeah so we'll be back we really hope that you join us thank you so much for joining us on the dump monkey show and we will see you next time
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