AI scientist quits Anthropic over risk to humanity

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. We do the things we do and how to make better choices to help avoid costly mistakes. Each episode covers the latest research in behavioural science and dives into themes like the power of self-control, shaping your mindset for success, navigating new beginnings and why starting over can feel so hard. Listen to Choiceology at schwab.com slash podcast or wherever you listen. If you are currently overpaying on software to run your business, remember this number. 10,000. That's the number of new businesses that join Odoo per month. Join Odoo today at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Alex Ritson and at 14 hours GMT on Wednesday the 9th of September, these are our main stories. In one of the starkest warnings about AI, a leading researcher at Anthropic says there is a greater than 10% chance the technology could wipe out humanity. UK Prime Minister Andy Burnham says Britain must stand against injustice after imposing sanctions over Israeli settlements in the Occupied West Bank. Our reporter investigates a spike in murders of women that's being called a femicide crisis in the Central African state of Cameroon. Also in this podcast, I just wanted to prove that Afghan women can do different things. Afghan women are not powerless as we live in the darkest part of the history. An Afghan woman climbs Everest in a world first to inspire women and girls. There's a greater than 10% chance AI could kill us all by the end of the decade. That's the stark warning from a manager at the artificial intelligence company Anthropic. Along with a colleague who has now resigned, they've said on social media they're worried that the technology could threaten humanity. Our technology reporter Chris Vallance told me more about this development. This is a pretty extraordinary exchange that took place on a social media platform X. I should preface this by saying that we need to remember that human beings have been pretty good at bringing themselves to threats to drive themselves out of existence. Without the help of artificial intelligence. But this was Evan Hubinger, the alignment science lead at Anthropic. Now, alignment science is essentially making sure that these AI models do what you expect them to do. And he was responding on X to a post by another researcher who US reports say had worked at OpenAI and Anthropic for a couple of years. And that researcher had posted, the people building AI could kill us all by the end of the decade. And Evan, the Anthropic alignment science lead says, he agrees that was right. And he said, we really do earnestly believe AI could kill all humans, exclamation point. I personally think it's a greater than 10% chance within the next decade. Now, we've had warnings before, but this is expressed in very blunt language. As you say, we've had warnings before. A lot of warnings, actually, from within the AI community. Are the rest of us maybe a bit naive about the dangers this technology poses? Well, I kind of think there are two things here we can say. Certainly, when we look at the recent incidents where autonomous agents from these companies have gone on unasked for hacking sprees, that's generated a huge amount of alarm. Those were, in many cases, those were models that weren't widely available, that were, if you like, research models. So in a sense, people in these companies do have insight into the latest that the tech can do. And certainly, some of the companies, particularly Anthropic, have withheld models because they're concerned about, you know, are we ready to deal with the risk that they might pose? But there's also, I think, you can say that if you're in AI and you're really good at it, you are also perhaps a true believer. in its capabilities. And therefore, it's easier for you to see the potential threats, perhaps, than somebody who might be a bit more sceptical about it. So I think there are two things there. Is anyone listening here, and even if they are listening, maybe an authority, is there anything they can do about it? Because this is a global technology. You can't shut down one company because the clever people that are making this technology will simply go elsewhere where it is allowed. Well, I think the last point is absolutely critical. I mean, there's a geopolitical dimension to this, isn't there? I mean, you know, weapons are terrible things, but if the other guy's got them, we want them too. And I think, you know, that was the logic of nuclear armament. And there's a sort of certain amount of that similar sort of geopolitics here. You know, AI brings lots of useful things and reining it in. If the other side isn't going to do it, it's difficult for individual nations to do that without feeling they're putting themselves at risk. On the face of it, a multinational agreement is what we're talking about. It's what's required. But, you know, there's a difficult logic to that. Chris Vallance. The British Prime Minister Andy Burnham has defended his government's decision to impose sanctions on goods from Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. The UK's announcement came after Israel opened up tenders for the construction of some 1,200 Jewish settlement homes, continuing its expansion into a strategically important area east of Jerusalem. It's been clear for some time that the possibility of a two-star state solution for Palestinians and Israelis is receding rapidly. The plans have drawn widespread international condemnation. Eleven other countries echoed London's announcement that they will, or already have, imposed their own restrictions. Speaking at Prime Minister's question time in the British Parliament, Mr Burnham said the UK was providing leadership on a world stage by taking action in the face of injustice. In this difficult and dangerous world, Britain has to stand for something. Britain has to show leadership. Britain has to stand for fairness against injustice. Where people are being bullied out of their homes, intimidated, we will always stand with the underdog and take what action we can to support them. That, Mr Speaker, is leadership on the world stage. Britain being true to what it's always been about, that is what the British government, British people expect of us, and that is what this government will do. The Israeli authorities are taking further action against countries which have imposed sanctions. They're recommending that representatives from a number of charities, including Oxfam and Save the Children, are denied entry to Israel. Israel hasn't yet announced what steps it's taking against Canada and France, which joined Britain in declaring a ban on trade with Jewish West Bank settlements. So, what response has there been within Israel? I heard more from our correspondent in Jerusalem, Yolanda. Certainly the comments that I've seen coming out of the Israeli settlements themselves have been defiant, saying they don't care about this action, that Israel has given the authorization for these settlements to be there, and that is what the Israeli residents care about. But there is a segment of Israeli society that does acknowledge that what has happened under this Israeli government is really something quite unprecedented. 104 new settlements have been authorized in the West Bank and settle violence now at an all-time high, according to the UN. And that has led to this response. There is one Israeli commentator writing in the newspaper Yediot Aharonot this morning, saying that Jerusalem had prepared for rain, but what arrived yesterday was a full-blown storm. That really referring to the fact that while Israel had prepared countermeasures to deal with what was expected, this announcement from the UK, it was actually a list of addictions. There are a dozen countries putting out a joint statement against settlements and trade with settlements, and Canada and France expected to take a similar action to the UK very soon. A spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London blamed the announcement on UK internal politics. Has there been a reaction from the Israeli government? That is certainly something that you hear commonly from Israeli officials, that they know it's going into the political party this season in the UK, and they attribute the timing somewhat to that, and this new Labour government wanting to make its mark. You also hear very commonly from Israeli officials and members of the public their belief that the UK is being taken over by Muslims, who they say are influencing policy, that the number of immigrants who have moved to the UK is really causing these policy changes, something that the Labour government would firmly deny. Ed Miliband, who has been speaking and making these announcements, has said that THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. of course, in the UK, is proudly labelling himself as a British Jew. But at the same time as all of that, you know, Gideon Saar, the foreign minister, has been calling this blatant interference in Israel's own election, which is due to happen in just over a month's time, six weeks' time. He's called this also a moral distortion. The Israeli media pointing out that it is unprecedented to have this closure of a consulate in Jerusalem, and the British one has been there since the 1830s. And it's been told now by Israeli officials that within 30 days it must cease its operations and that the diplomats who are working there will have their accreditation rescinded. As you say, a harsh response, but no harsh response so far anyway from Israel's greatest ally, the United States. How surprising is that? I think it is surprising and it will cause real discomfort for many Israeli officials. There is a report by the Israeli journalist Barak Ravid in Axios and on Israel's Channel 12 saying that in that call between the British Prime Minister Andy Burnham and President Trump, where he spoke to him ahead of the British announcement, that it was made clear that there would be a British move to ban settlement goods and that President Trump did not oppose that. Yoland Nel. And for a deep dive on the reasons why the British government decided to sanction West Bank settlements and the diplomatic fallout, search for our sister podcast, The Global Story. The recent killing of eight women in Cameroon over the course of a week has sparked outrage and renewed calls for specific legislation against gender-based violence. Official figures show that at least 250 women were killed between 2023 and the first four months of this year. Civil society organisations say the country is facing a crisis of femicide and that these figures may be even higher as some cases go unreported. Our reporter Paul NGA has been speaking with families of femicide victims as well as survivors of gender-based violence in the capital, Yaoundé. And a warning, some details in this report are distressing. Panic and dismay following the discovery of a lifeless woman at a hotel in Yaoundé. 44-year-old Cressence was stabbed to death by a man prompting widespread outcry against the wanton killing of women across the country. At her family residence, her father still grapples with the shock of her loss. I wanted Cressence to be here because as she was the eldest in a family of nine children, I wanted her to be the guide of the family after me. I wanted her to be the guide of the family after me. More than four and a half years ago, they lost their mother and Cressence was the one who had to replace her. Officials say at least 50 women were killed in the first four months of this year alone. Cressence was just one of at least eight others to be killed in a week in August. Some women are lucky to survive gender-based violence, but the trauma, stigma and pain are indelible, especially for those, in abusive marriages. That's the case of Grace, who left her marriage of two decades after being physically abused by her husband. We've changed her name to protect her identity. Women who are victims of domestic violence in Cameroon are not protected. There's no real structure in place because when you complain, people ask you, why did he beat you? When you say he beat you while you were asleep, nobody believes you. You arrive and find women like yourself who are supposed to welcome you, but they are the very women who tell you, I'm sure it was your neighbour who advised you to file a complaint against your husband. Is she divorced? I put these concerns to the Minister of Women's Empowerment and the Family, Professor Marie-Thérèse Abena-Ondua, but she denied claims that the government was not doing enough to protect women and prevent gender-based violence. She said a bill to that effect is currently being reviewed at the Prime Minister's office. We have reached a consensus on the formulation of the different. articles and what have you. And I don't think the Prime Minister's services have been sleeping on it. No. And my hope, and I don't think I'm wrong, is that that bill will probably reach the Parliament in the November session. But the said bill has already been in the works for several years now. And because the November session of Parliament is mostly dominated by debates on the budget, civil society activists are sceptical that anything concrete will emerge from there. In the meantime, families who've lost loved ones to the brutality of femicide will keep hoping for justice to take its course. Paul NGA. To Norway now, where funeral ceremonies for King Harold V have taken place. As thousands of people crowded the streets, the Norwegian royal family led the funeral procession with members of the military joining in the march. King Harold died at the age of 89 after 35 years on the throne. His son, Harkon VIII, has succeeded him. Members of the British royal family, including the Prince of Wales and Princess Anne, attended the service, alongside members of the Danish, Swedish and Dutch royal families. Our global affairs reporter Mimi Swaby has been following. She told me more about the day's events. After a procession carrying King Harold's coffin from the Royal Palace to Oslo Cathedral, there was a ceremony, a very moving ceremony for an hour it lasted. That started with a minute of silence, which was held nationwide. And then memorial speeches took place. Now, some speeches were from the President of Parliament who said that King Harold wasn't afraid to meet people with his wellies on, referring to times where the symbol of unity went to the people. Victims of attacks or went to times or places where people needed him most. He was seen as a symbol of unity and stability during times of upheaval. He then went on to say that the King lived up to his slogan. That slogan is everything for Norway. And that is something that has been repeated throughout the 13 days of mourning now since the late King passed away, that he gave everything for his country. Even during times of ill health, he refused to abdicate because he said he took the oath to be King for life. The ceremony concluded, it was a very touching moment when the now widowed Queen, Sonja, Lea rose down on his coffin, wiping away tears. Immediate family members were very close to the coffin, but the cathedral was full. It normally has a capacity of about 800, but it was extended to more than 1,000 to mark this very special occasion, the first state funeral since 1991. So a very grand occasion filled with mourning and a lot of sorrow, but also a celebration of a King who was incredibly popular. among Norwegians. His coffin is now going to go to the Akershus Fortress where he will finally lay to rest. A private ceremony will be held for close family members and other close guests. Before later this afternoon, we can expect the new King, his son, King Haakon VIII, to address the public from the palace balcony. So a long day filled with ceremony and tradition and a lot of security as well. It's a massive event in Oslo. There has been some controversy around Norway's royal family in recent years. Will it be? Will it be as popular without him? The late King, King Harald, was incredibly popular. So the new King, King Haakon, has big shoes to fill, essentially. The new King has some scandals among his intimate family. His wife, it was revealed earlier this year, had ties to the late sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein, something she came out to apologise for, saying she wished she never met him. And his stepson, Marius Borg-Hueyby, he's been convicted of two counts of rape alongside other sexual offence charges. He has been given temporary leave today to accommodate his son, but these are scandals which will be plaguing the royal family and something he'll have to bring public trust back with. Mimi Swaybe. Still to come in this podcast. The repeated heat damage to the lining of the oesophagus. Really hot liquids could possibly injure the cells of the lining, which might make the tissue more vulnerable and these processes could eventually lead to cancer. Scientists say drinking very hot tea or coffee could significantly increase the risk of oesophageal cancer. We'll be right back. We're shutting them down. Free app-based talk and text via the TextNow app requires Wi-Fi or data connection. Data plans sold separately. 5G where available. Self-directed investing. Trading. Full-service wealth management. Automated investing. Financial planning. Thematic investing. Retirement planning. Phew. And to think, that's just a small taste of what Schwab offers. Because Schwab knows that when it comes to your finances, choice matters. No matter your goals, investing style, life stage or experience, Schwab has everything you need. All in one place. So you can invest your way. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This is Danielle Robay from Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. 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With the new Schwab Teen Investor Account, teens can gain hands-on investing experience and build positive money habits. It's an account co-owned by you and your teen, so you can monitor and engage with the account while your teen learns how to invest and manage money. Learn more at Schwab.com. This is the Global News Podcast. Next to the story of the first Afghan woman to climb Mount Everest. As a teenager in Afghanistan, Riva Ahmed survived a Taliban attack on her bus by pretending to be dead and dreamed of climbing Everest with her 20-year-old brother, who later killed himself. Riva now lives in Australia, from where she spoke to the BBC's Soda Bar Hey Dairy about her inspiration behind reaching the top of the world's tallest mountain above sea level. I just wanted to prove that Afghan women can do different things. Afghan women are not powerless, as we live in the darkest part of the history. You come from Ghazni province. It's very mountainous. And I've read in interviews that you used to go up there with your brother. You had a mutual dream to climb Everest together. Obviously, it was very tough to. Go climb in Afghanistan, or specifically in a village. No one wanted me to climb. And mountain was just for men and boys to go to do this kind of stuff. But I just had a very good relationship with my dad when I was very young. And I said, Dad, just let me climb these rocks. And when my brother had grown up, we both used to go to the mountain, and we used to climb, and we used to just laugh. And we used to just. Shout on the mountain, you know, you can hear your reflection of your voice. And I was like, I want to climb Mount Everest. And I was like, okay, we will do that. I don't have my brother with me right now. And obviously, I miss him all the time. And what has been the reaction from your family? Or have you had any messages from Afghan women? Dad was not happy at all. And he sent a message to me that, oh, people are going to the moon, and they're being adopted. Doctor or engineer, I don't know why you're going to Mount Everest. You're crazy. So when I climbed, the story got changed. My dad immediately sent messages to me, my mom, my family. And also, I got so many messages from Afghan women that they inspired by my climbing. In 2014, you had your own experience with the Taliban. When the bus you were traveling on was attacked, many were killed. But you survived because you smudged period blood on your face and pretended to be dead. When I finished my year 12, I just wanted to go to study in Kabul. They stopped buses along the way, and they just stopped fire and just began. I had my period. And I was like, I'm not going to die. I love life. What should I do? What should I do? And I took the blood and I put it on my face. And I just let pretend that I'm dead. But they came to me and they just looked and said, oh, this prostitute lady is dead. And then leave the bus. What is your message to Afghan women? I want them to dream big. I want them to believe themselves. I know it's a very tough time, but they are stronger than they think. Everest climber, Riva Ahmed. The US Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, has hailed, Washington entering what he calls a new phase of cooperation with Colombia after meeting the country's new president in Bogota. President Abolado de la Esprilla, Colombia's new right-wing leader, said that his government wanted to be an ally of the US in the fight against drug trafficking. Marco Rubio will also travel to Ecuador and Peru, countries which have also seen rightward political shifts in the past few years, as part of his tour of the region to countries friendly with the Trump administration. Anne Soy discussed his visit with Bogota-based journalist Laura Lizarazo, the Associate Director at Control Risks Global Risk Analysis Practice, a global strategic intelligence and security firm. She began by explaining the significance of the trip. Secretary Rubio's visit to Colombia is part of a broader regional visit to other countries in the U.S. for the first time in a decade. The trip involves three mutually reinforcing U.S. objectives. One, strengthening the fight against drug cartels. Two, consolidating and solidifying the U.S. influence in the hemisphere. And three, building a coalition of politically aligned governments in Latin America. This visit advances those three objectives simultaneously. Why is that? Why is that important for the Trump administration? You know, these renewed alignments within the Western Hemisphere, within the Americas especially, improving those ties? Well, that makes part of a broader goal in U.S. foreign policy under Trump's administration, which has been labeled as the Dunrow Doctrine, meaning reasserting U.S. dominance over the hemisphere. And the U.S. has declared that the U.S. is the only country in the world that has its natural region for exercising influence. And this is important for Trump as Colombia is a longstanding partner of the U.S., but the relationship was strained under Gustavo Petro's government over the past four years. And the visit of Secretary Rubio also aims to restore those ties that were under tension during the past administration. How are these developments in the relationship between Washington and Bogota being received in Colombia? The country is deeply divided around that and other issues, as President Abelardo de las Priegas was elected by a very tight, very slim margin. So his mandate is relatively weak, as he won by roughly 2,050 votes. So half of the country, around half the country, the public supports and welcomes a more assertive role of the U.S. regarding security operations, as Colombian military have lost significant capabilities in terms of communications, logistics and mobility over the past decade. Some people view U.S. support, a more assertive support, as a means to bridge that gap. But a significant. A significant part of the population strongly opposes a more active participation of the U.S. in security issues, given that that is viewed or framed as a violation of sovereignty. And that caused a strong opposition among the left and some social movements, particularly farmer and coca crop growers, who are likely to be targeted by this. Laura Lizarazo from Control Risks. Now to a new study by Oxford University that says people who regularly have an extra hot cup of tea or coffee are at greater risk of developing cancer in their oesophagus. Karin Papia is the lead researcher and nutritional epidemiologist at Oxford Population Health. This is a study of nearly one million UK adults, and these are free-living adults who take part in the Million Women Study and in the UK Biobank Study. These are people who reported how they consume their beverages and were followed up over time to see what happens for their health risk. And really what's exciting about this study is that it adds to the evidence that drinking very hot and hot beverages, could increase the risk of oesophageal squamous cell carcinoma. We think one possible explanation could be the repeated heat damage to the lining of the oesophagus. So really hot liquids could possibly injure the cells of the lining which might make the tissue more vulnerable and these processes could eventually lead to cancer. And there's also a risk factor of drinking more than six drinks a day and I can't see from the, is that more than six hot drinks? So it's just more than six warm drinks at all. That's right. We did see that even after we control for the drink temperature, the actual frequency, the number of beverages. So we saw that drinking six or more hot drinks a day compared to drinking less than six was associated with 70% high risk. Right. Which sounds scary, that 70%. But actually, you also make the point, because you're a proper scientist and you're looking at this not to scare people, but to try to find out what's going on. You also make the point that actually these cancers are pretty rare and the actual risk that anyone has that is being added to is small. That's right. So people in the UK have about a 1% lifetime risk of being diagnosed with this type of cancer. And really taking things into perspective, the most important thing you can do to try to prevent cancer at all and this cancer is really to stop smoking and if possible also to cut down on alcohol. But that 1% risk then increases to one point something. In other words, that's 70%. That's a 70% figure that sometimes is seized upon in headlines, etc. It doesn't really mean that the risk itself has increased very much. Yes, and I suppose that people really are quite worried because we do drink tea and coffee throughout the day, very popular in the UK. Just letting your cuppa cool down for a little bit would really be beneficial. Karan Papia from Oxford University talking to Justin Webb. And finally, the creators of the animated TV show South Park have announced that their new series, will be named South America, in what's thought to be a reference to President Trump's attempts to rename Lake Ontario and the Gulf of Mexico. The newsroom's Richard Hamilton reports. OK. Mr President, sir, the Prime Minister of Canada is here to see you. Mr President, why are you placing these new tariffs on Canada? What are you, some kind of dictator? Trey Parker and Matt Stone, who first created the profane, surreal and sometimes dark cartoon sitcom back in 1997, have never been afraid of lampooning Donald Trump. This episode last year was particularly close to the bone. It started off satirising the fractious relationship between the US and Canada that's descended into a trade war, but went on to depict the American president naked in bed with Satan. Nobody makes fun of me and gets away with it! Hey, Satan! You don't want to right now. What? Hey, relax! Come on, Satan, I've been working hard all day! You haven't been working. After that episode, the White House described South Park as a fourth-rate show that was hanging on by a thread with uninspired ideas in a desperate attempt for attention. But that hasn't stopped Parker and Stone from having another dig at Donald Trump. Inspired by the bravery and patriotism of Donald Trump. and Google, we are changing the name of South Park to South America, they said in a statement. In August, the President signed an executive order to rename Lake Ontario as Lake America, and last year he declared that the Gulf of Mexico would be known as the Gulf of America. Both Apple and Google Maps have made these changes for US-based users. We especially want to thank our parent company, Paramount, a Skydance capitulation, the South Park creators said in the post. Last year, the Trump administration approved a $111 billion merger between the show's parent company, Paramount Skydance, and Warner Bros. Discovery. But the deal has been put on hold pending lawsuits alleging it would stifle competition. On Sunday, South Park won an Emmy for Outstanding Animated Programme. It then shared. It then shared a cartoon picture of Donald Trump with the words, You finally got your Emmy. The new season will premiere on the 16th of September. Richard Hamilton. And that's all from us for now. If you want to get in touch, you can email us at globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. You can also now watch our episodes in full. Just search for the Global News Podcast on YouTube. This edition was mixed by Daniela Varela The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Alex Ritson. Until next time, goodbye. ♪