AI Rabonni: When ChatGPT Becomes Your Teacher | The Shepherd's Bench Ep. 007

What's going on everybody? This is Pastor Kofi Darte. I'm here with my brother, Paul Sarandoffa Jay, and you are listening to or watching the Shepherds Bench Podcasts. You know, I'm also how we feeling today. How we feeling? Good. You feeling good? Good. I'm arrested. Ready to go. I'm arrested, bro. Man, listen, we left y'all on a cliffhanger. And it was so hot. I couldn't wait to get back into the studio to be able to record again, because we left off talking about chat GPT. Yes, sir. Chat GPT. Why do you love the topic of chat GPT? Because I feel honestly that chat GPT is a blessing. AI is a blessing, but at the same time, I feel like it is a tool. It should be a tool that's added and addition. I don't think that it necessarily should be the main course meal, but it should be something like a garnish that you put upon the actual meal. What I'm finding today in many of our circles, be it business circles, creative circles, you know, ministerial circles, is that many individuals and many of us are not necessarily, you know, locking ourselves in to be able to receive the download of the Lord, but we are referring to chat GPT, every, you know, all types of AI where, you know, just can put together a sermon quickly, microwave it, come out it. I feel like it's something so essential, you know, that we need to talk about. And so we've been in this series called Essentials of the Calling. Yeah. Speaking about a whole bunch of stuff. A whole bunch of stuff. We'll recap it. And then, you know, we'll see where the Lord takes us today. We've been jumping into a lot of different stuff. Again, if you're here, you can listen back and go watch the other episodes. But we've been talking about Essentials of the Calling. We've been looking at first Samuel chapter 10. And we've been just going through the scripture, line upon line, precept upon precept. We've been looking at the, you know, presence of fathers and the presence of headship and the journey in ministry, in your calling. You know, we then went to talk about first Samuel chapter 10, you know, verses 3, 4, 5, looking specifically at Saul and his interaction, how he grew in his calling from being with Samuel to the two men, you know, to now we're looking at these three men who are going up the mountain carrying, you know, three goats and three loaves of bread and the wine. And where we left off was very hot. We left off a parcel talking about the fact that you said that you find it very interesting that instead of the three loaves of bread, of course, you know, he didn't give Saul, the goats didn't give Saul the wine, you know, as the Lord gave you revelation, you know, goats representing the sin that would be used for sacrifice, you know, the wine representing the spirit of God as the Holy Spirit had not yet fed, you know, had not yet come down. And looking at the bread, we spoke about the Trinity. Yes, sir. And looking at the bread, you know, father, son, Holy Spirit and the fact that out of all of the three that he only gave him two, the revelation that the Lord gave you was that bread representing the bread of life, representing, you know, the word of God, you know, representing the word of God. And specifically looking at three, looking at the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the rena. And we're looking at the fact that you would consume the Old Testament, should consume the New Testament before you begin to receive the rena word of God. Just as the Bible talks about his ekeh, he's eight, the scrolls, eat the word. It was like honey in my mouth when I ate it, talking about how the word of God is sweet, the word of God is powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, you know, dividing both, you know, bone and marrow. Where do we start today? Don't chat, G-D-E-T, you're way into revelation. Let's start there. What do we mean by that? Do you feel, let me, let me start by asking this question, yeah, do you feel like the authenticity of, I don't want to use the word gospel. Yeah. Do you think that authenticity of our sermons in this generation, do you feel like something is taken out of our sermons in this generation because, again, people can just go online and just, you know, going to chat G-P-T and just give a topic. And when you go to events these days and people are preaching, yeah, is there something that makes you ask yourself, did this guy pray for this? Did he study for this or this is just a product of chat G-P-T? How do you even identify that what has been preached on the topic is a statement of somebody's time of devotion? How would somebody be able to figure that out? Because in our university, they've created some systems that they are able to use to determine whether the thesis, the dissertation, all of these kind of things, was written by an AI. How do we authenticate sermons from our altars these days when we know that, like I said, people can chat G-P-T the way into revelation? Number one, I feel for me personally. We alluded to this scripture in Ezekiel to eat the scroll. Yeah. I really strongly feel like when the word is in you, the word will also come out of you. You know Paul talks about it all throughout his letters. You'll see it very specifically. He talks about for what I received of the Lord, I also delivered. I think that process of receiving and delivering is one way that we have to be able to use as a metrics for what are they saying? Number one, what do they have within them? And is this something that is hooked up in a microwave somewhere? Or is this something that has been baked? I don't know about you and I'm sure. I can determine it. Yes, and we're going to get to it right now. I think for me, when it comes to some of the foundations of, because we're preachers, let's use preaching, of preaching, teaching ministry, you know, whatever, I think there should be four main things that we look at. You know, one of my friends said this a few years ago and I loved how he said it. He said, when it comes to the preaching ministry that you should pray yourself hot. You know, number one, you know, number two, you should think yourself clear. Then he said, you should, you know, preach yourself empty. Repeat that. Okay, so we'll start, I'll start again. He says, number one, you should think yourself clear. I'll start from thinking. Think yourself clear. Your thought process should be clear. Let's talk about just communicators and preachers. You should know what you're going to say from the revelation the Lord has given you. Then we'll get to how they receive the revelation. Number two, you should pray yourself hot. You should be prayed up before you come out. Number three, you should preach yourself empty. I see you do it every single week. Like this is the last message I'm going to preach. And one that I skipped within them because I want us to really focus on this one is that you must study yourself full. Hmm. You started to show yourself. Study to show yourself approved. Study yourself full. If my iPad has died so many times as I've preached you, as I know, should I reveal it or should I reveal it? Is it secret? [LAUGHTER] Let's just say, you go with the-- I feel like a little. Okay, let me reveal that. That I've been with the apostle. One time I asked him for his notes. He sent me his notes. I said, these are not notes. These are just guiding points. The apostle can come on stage and not look at his note, not even one time. Why? Because the revelation is in him. Revelation is in you. You've eaten it. It carries spirit. It carries life. It is full. When somebody is speaking and preaching and you know that they have truly touched into a divine revelation, you know because there are accompanying signs, wonders, things that are happening. And on top of that, you know because the word on the inside of them, the way that they're preaching and speaking is from a place of deep conviction. It is consumed them. So what your trying to say is that you can hear somebody preach and you can recognize this, this guy is preaching what he's not lived. Absolutely. I'll tell you one conviction is lacking. Conviction. Programmer, good vocabulary, all of these kind of things. Good vocal dynamics. You can see the weather. So try them. No, no, no. Or this guy just listing from someone he's preaching. Of course. Because let's be honest, before Chad GBT and before AI and all these things. Those YouTube, YouTube. People can go on. Hear your message. There's Google. Google. You can go and Google a message. They'll have, they have, you know, all these applications where you can go online. And you can take a sermon, pay for it, get a whole sermon. So it's nothing new. You can go on YouTube and you can hear a message from TD Jakes and you can go right down the notes and then preach it. But it's not about just the preached word. It's about what a company is the word. What is the weight behind the word? And the weight behind the word truly comes, I believe, when the word has worked in you. Okay. So that's why I said I'm glued to all these scriptures. You know, Zikyo, I've eaten the scroll and it was sweet in my mouth. You know, all these different things. You talk about, you know, for that which I received of the Lord, you know, I also delivered onto the Lord. You know, you're talking about something I received, something that worked in me and something that is taking out. So there is, there is downloading before uploading. Yes. And even before you upload, there's downloading then there's processing. Okay. And that's what we're talking about because someone can download a word, you know, the main by reading it. Yeah. If you're a very good student, you can study something. You can study a chat G.B.T. sermon to the poem by, it isn't you, you know, but the truth is it has to work in you. Work in you. You know, Ephesians chapter three verse 20 talks about it, you know. According to the power that works on the inside of me. That power, that energy, that power, that energizing power, right. Talking about the power that work is the word must work in you. And I believe that when the word works in you, that's when now when you are uploading it, you realize that the download was fully complete because it processed. Jesus. And when the download processed, then it was able to be uploaded and to be blessed. So there are many indicators, but I want to just make it simple. Then I'll throw over to you. I think that the simple indication of somebody who is truly, truly, you know, come and preaching under the power of God and a message that is a full download from the Lord is that it's been processed within them. They've studied to show themselves approved. They're preaching with conviction. And they are signs, wonders, and spirit following the word that they're being preached. I think that's a good foundation. Yeah, yeah, bro. So with that, let's, let's, let's, what are your thoughts on? What are your thoughts on this on, on communicators these days, preachers, the way that we communicate the gospel? I believe that you're a great communicator. And what have you seen? What are, what are practices that are good practices, things that you're seeing, things that maybe you don't, you don't, you don't appreciate about the communication of the gospel. Then we get into some of this growing up, growing up, I was, I was always taught that the good teacher is the one that teaches in simplicity. Okay. And the good teacher is the one that after they've taught everybody understands. So, you know, back then, or in the generations that some of us grew up in, the objective was to be as simple as much as possible. Okay. Let us even look at Jesus. Jesus Christ came to communicate the mysteries of the kingdom. He was communicating it. And he said, "A reality that the people of that age did not know." And instead of talking about God and His Word and angels, he would use things like seed, fishermen, farm, and match it. He brought this teaching so low and so down, broken down so simple that even the dumbest of all men understood what he was trying to communicate. Parable. Because there's no point of, of communicating and sweating in people when home confused. Okay. My frustration with this generation is the urge of everybody trying to sound deep. Okay. To confuse the listeners. Okay. Because if it's too simple, then it's not powerful. Okay. And that's a misconception. That's a misconception. Okay. And this is why I love you. Wow. And that's maybe an unwell. That's one of the reasons why I love you. Because I've never ever seen you try to complicate text. Wow. I've never ever seen you try to complicate scripture. And I don't think there's ever been anybody who ever had, you speak and said, I did not understand it. Wow. The power of God was still moved, the power of God was still for, but everybody understands. Because the good teacher is that person that when they finish, when you are teaching, you teach and your students go back home and they are confused, you've actually done a very, very terrible. And I think that one of the things that, you know, I find for straight in our generations that everybody is trying to be deep and to teach deep. Okay. To get the audience to get to place where they are so confused that they feel like, "Yo, this guy is so deep." And then what for straight means about the time the service is done, you ask people, how was it? They say, "Yo, it was powerful." And then he asked them, "What did he say?" And they can't tell you any of it. And this person came to use my voice call it a lingua. They came to use a language that makes them look, you know, and I know that I'm the type of guy that, you know, likes to talk about, you know, go down and look at the etymology, look at the green, you know. But the essence of this is never to confuse. Because when I was growing up under Reverend Yaku, that is how we learned. He would always, everything, he would take it down into the strong, find the root meaning, and let you understand why that makes sense to the text, you know, bring in context and all of these kinds of things and stuff like that. But I think that you just have people that are just throwing Greek everywhere, throwing Latin everywhere, throwing Hebrew everywhere. You have people that are talking about dimensions and, you know, the wings of angels and all of these kind of things. I think every preacher, let me crack this up, most preachers of our generation. And the generation coming, things that when they walk out of the pulpit and people are like, "Mm, mm, mm, mm." Then it means they are not in it. Because they came to say things that nobody has heard before. And what that is also bringing is that it's bringing a lot of heresis. It's bringing this type of, you know, an era where, you know, people are, people are just talking about things that are not true, things are not real, things that are not attainable. And we are leaving this generation as confused as ever. I believe that our churches now is almost like a confusing type of ground, where people want to just comment and just prove to other people that you guys don't know anything. We know everything that are known. And listen to the kind of things that we are talking about. And it's not things that you've experienced before. And what is happening is that you're having people, "Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm." I don't know if that's a language, but "Mm, mm, mm." You know, they are way in our services, but they are confused. And what is the evidence? There's no transformation. Okay. So there's no transformation. Because you can't become what you don't understand. Wow. Right. You can't become what you don't understand. That's what the Bible says that, you know, get wisdom. Yes. But in all that get- Understand it. Get understand it. Yes, sir. When you understand, it's easy to do. Because there's a certain type of consciousness that has entered your reality that makes you know that, "Oh, this is available, this is attainable. I can actually become it." I think that, and I don't know where this came from. I was about to ask you. I don't know how, but this is the first stretch. And for me, it's the fact that you just find people that are just beginning the journey, potentially preaching the first sermon, and they are trying to over-complicate it. And by the time you sit down and you listen, it's the heresy that I've been prepared to because everybody wants to prove they are deep. That's my biggest frustration with communication. When it comes to mothers pretending, you know, the word, I mean, "Semones and all of these kind of things." And it's frustrating that young man, that preacher who thinks, "Oh, but my salmon is too simple." Too simple. So we're not getting messages on courage, like we were talking about. We're not getting message on trauma. We're not getting messages on, you know, love, maybe basic messages, foundational messages on the foundations of faith, the ABCs of faith, you know, sacrifice, regular foundational messages. And we're not saying, and I believe, and I know that the heart where you're speaking from, we're not saying that one should not allow the spirit of God to breathe upon them with rema, to the point whereby it brings forth clarity. No. You know, no, no, no. We're saying that we're saying that that's actually what should happen. What do you have to say is that. Whatever God tells you. you as well as spread is communicated. Right. How you communicate it is your response. It's on you. So even if God is giving you things that are deep, yeah, quote and unquote, because we can even go into a whole conversation as to what is deep. Do you think people are preaching experience more than scriptures? I, I, I, I, I, what do you think it's a balanced? Uh-uh. I don't think that the problem is people preaching experience because if experience means you are preaching what you've lived. As long as you can have scriptures to battery experience to prove that you are not just preaching experience, but this is what you've lived, but it is synonymous with scripture. But my problem with that is when that becomes dogma. When that becomes doctrine and theology and a generation is growing up saying, because I prayed, for example, six hours. That's another problem. Do you know what I'm saying? Because I prayed six hours and this was my experience when I prayed. And because the Bible says pray without seizing. That scriptural background, just say, pray without seizing. Jesus prayed for long periods of time. Jesus went and retreated in the scriptures. Their scriptural backing to say pray. Men ought always to pray and not faint. That's a scriptural backing. Absolutely. And it's a truth. I believe in it. You believe in it. Prayer is important. But if someone says, I've prayed for six hours and I find that if you are going to be used of God, you must pray for six hours. A generation coming up that should only just simply believe in the aspect of prayer, whether it be long short, you know, the prayer of faith, prayer of healing, whatever. Prayer in the concept, they're not believing it to be theology to say that if I do not pray six hours, I am not anointed. If I don't pray six hours, it becomes a theology, a standard, a doctrine. And that is one of my concerns many times with what I see and what I hear. And of course, this is not a podcast to rant. No, no, no. But what we want to do is to be able to share from our perspective from the Shepherds bit. Yes. You know what I mean? What we see and what we feel and what we sense. And so I do believe that they are incredible preachers doing the great thing. We have the balance. Listen, they're amazing preachers. Incredible teachers. Amazing people preaching great. Strong theology, strong churches, you know, healthy churches. But they're also on the other side of things, experiential teaching. I agree. With biblical backing still, that becomes theology for the 20 year old. I get it. That says that I can only, and I think that that now perpetuates this culture of lingo because somebody received some lingo in an experience and an encounter that becomes a part of their style. And then we also get into the topic now of copying of style. Yes, sir. I have to use this language to be deep. If I don't use realms, if I don't use this or that or that, then I'm not deep. But what did that come from? That came from somebody. Do you think this is an African problem? I mean, you've traveled extensively. Yeah. You've gone to Asia. Yeah. You are in the American circles. Yeah. And even within the American, the black American, black American. Do you think this thing is an African Christianity issue or you think it's something that, based on, because I've been, I've gone into Indonesia, Singapore. I didn't see that. I just saw people that were broken. I just saw people that, you know, you preach things that are very simple. They are very highly prophetic. And I didn't see anybody trying to preach something that nobody, you know, that was complicated and all of that and stuff like that. You've been into the wide community, the wide circle and all of these kinds of it. Do you think this thing of, of, of, of, of, of, of, is trying to sound deep, a certain type of a lingual, you know, all of these kind of things about, you know, different dimensions, all of these things that are splegged. But, uh, generation. Do you think it, it's an African church issue? I think so. And the reason why I'll say this, um, having traveled as you have, I think every culture has its own challenges. Yeah. It's on exorcists, its own challenges, whether it be in, you know, the way that one may speak in tongues, you know, versus the way that one may feel as though the spirit of God is moving in a room versus the way that somebody may feel as though the spirit of, you know, tongues shouldn't be brought into, you know, the church and should remain outside the church and should just be something that is in the living group or in the, the bedroom as opposed to the living room. Every culture has its own exorcists, its own challenges. I think this is ours. Okay. I think this is ours because having gone to different environments, there's good and bad in everywhere. I see the good, I see the challenge and I think that this is a challenge for us as individuals who are abroad, but with African root in the context and community that we live in. I absolutely think that this is something that is plaguing the African community, the African Christian community, being that we feel as though we have to, and it goes right back to what we've been talking about for the last few episodes. This thing of I have to, I'll do my brother. I have to, I need to, I need to over preach. I have to over preach. He can't, he was deep. I need to show them I'm deeper. Like, okay, you'll go to a meeting. Maybe. Like if you preach in a place, I'll not try preaching. Oh, bro, come on. No, if you, if you, if you preach in a place, I will not, when they give me our sink, I don't know, bro, there's many times. I lost my trade of thought. Well, there's the sharp, this brother, so he said, these excesses, you are talking about. Oh, yes. This particular was is an African. I do believe because I haven't seen it anywhere. I think the danger of it is this, I've this one in time from a global perspective. I think that God is risen strong voices from Africa. Absolutely. In the sound history, worship settings, even in terms of the, the pastors of the prophets, it's incredible. He's shooting off to the world. It's amazing. If this thing is not addressed, it would go beyond an African church issue to become in a global issue. Absolutely. Absolutely. The voice, the African voices in this era is, is being trumpeted all across the world. So it's something that I believe that we're, listen, I'm going to say, I'm going to do it. Or we are trying to say is that it, it, it, you don't have to over complicate the gospel. It's simple. Don't make it complicated. It is that simple. Don't make good news. Complicated. So that people can't receive it because they can't understand. And the true test of a good teacher is that when they teach everybody, and if the preacher doesn't preach, how will the people hear? I think our problem isn't that preachers aren't preaching. That preachers aren't clear. Yeah, not preaching in a way that people would hear. Clarity, illumination. Whoa. Illumination is not just in the place of revelation. Illumination, I believe, is in the place of communication. Yeah. How clear is your message? How clear are you communicating in that boardroom? How clear are you communicating your feelings to that girl or that man? How clear are you in your dealings? The clarity of communication provides an understanding. And so I think that it is something that we really, really have to look at, really have to deal with. And I'm praying for our community. I'm praying for our generation of speakers and preachers and pastors and leaders and businessmen and women that we will come to the place of knowing that it's simple. There's no need to make it complicated. The gospel is already powerful. There's nothing that we need to add to the gospel. It is a powerful message in and of itself. And as God begins to give us illumination and give us revelation, let's make that revelation simple and palatable for the generation to be able to consume. Let's get into this first Samuel. I think that we want to move. No, we are going to go. I think one of the things I would love us to discuss on one of the episodes is all of these things with sons doing everything to look exactly like their father or the overextension of, of, of, the, the understandings of the, you know, there are some, there are some churches that you get to everybody talks a setting way, dresses a setting way, sure, they were the same type of shoes, all of them were whatever and stuff like that. They all do, you know, that is something that I think that in one of the episodes, it would be great for us to be able to talk about. But let's get into the text. So just for context, we are discussing first and foremost 10. My God. Because for the sick of the person who is hearing for the first time, we are talking about the effects that, you know, the essentials of the call. We started by saying first some of the chapter number 10. And there is this young man who is called Saul, you know, God has a call upon his life. God brings a man in his life called Samuel. Samuel helps him identify his assignments and says that God has called his commander in chief of his army. He annoins him, pulls all your upon his head and then tells him that when you leave me, you are going to get to a place called the Tomb of Rachel. You're going to meet Tim and at this tomb and they're going to tell you that what you are looking for, the donkeys you're looking out for has been found. You're established on this that, you know, on one of the essentials of ministries that you have to die to self. Right. If you haven't watched the previous episodes, you know, we touched this for almost two episodes. People should go back and watch that. And then we went from there to the verse number three of verse number 10 and he said, "When you go from there, we talked about the fact that ministry or calling is progressive. I started with one Samuel. It ended up with two men at Rachel's tomb, but there were three men at the taberim's tree of tabo." And he said that you are going to meet these three men. They are holding three young goats, you know, which talks about sin. You know, at ten men, they are not going to hand it over to you. We spoke about the fact that they have wine and then they have three loaves of bread. Out of the three loaves of bread, he said to them, "They are going to give you two. We established that why did they have three, but only gave them two." And we said that because the two you would have to strive for, you have to press in for, that in this matter pertaining to your calling is not everything that everybody does. Do you know that there are certain people that get offended because they feel like you have not made everything available to them easily? Have you ever experienced certain things where maybe some of the people you were raising felt like you are wicked? And you have three loaves of bread. Have you just given me two? Sure. Why are you saying you have to strive for the fat one? And why, you know, what do you say about, you know, people, what's the dangers of making everything so easy for the people you are raising? They are not fully developed. Okay. They become underdeveloped. And if you overexpose somebody who is underdeveloped, it will end up in difficulty and problems. Somebody who is underdeveloped is already an indication that there is much to learn. Someone is underdeveloped and is given the platform, they won't have the way to sustain where they are. And if you don't have the way to sustain the platform, what will happen is the platform will break you. And so the dangers of not allowing there to be opportunities for people to also work, strive, develop. Want? It creates a culture of everything is too easy. So that now becomes the precedent about ministry, about life, about work. Work is easy. Ministry is easy. It's a piece of cake. It's this. My friend, Manuska Charles in Miami, Florida, you met Manuska at YWF a few years ago. She has a sermon out called, "Singleness is a piece of cake." I love the play on words that she uses because when she went to go do, you know, look into it and Holy Spirit gave her inside, she was talking about a piece of cake, but the piece of cake is not just one slice. It could be one slice, but it's layered. Okay. In the fact that you have the first layer of cake, second layer, third layer, fourth layer, different things that are about that one slice of cake. Taking that same example is to also let us know that when it comes to ministry, life, leadership, it's a piece of cake. And the play on words is that it's not easy. There are layers that we have to be able to work for. His grace is sufficient, grace is there. That's why two loaves were given. Help is here. But there was another loaf of revelation and rema that we will have to attain. So the reason why I believe it's important for us to be able to allow individuals to work, strive, it's for their benefit. It's for their benefit. And that's what we've created. All different types of stuff. I have the campus model on the campuses. As this apprenticeship thing we've been talking about in ministry for people to develop their skills before they are sent out to whatever facet of ministry they are in. Something called the summer league, that is it's an incubation program for college students and young people to be able to develop skills in different areas, be it arts, music, hospitality, different areas. They're able to work through the summer and they work closely with me and I mentor them for four months in the summer. It's a way of them trying to know that although I have achieved one level, I'm still at the campus level. I have not yet ascended to a location or a branch level. So there must be steps in progression. What are the markers of progression? And if we do not give the individuals that God is leading us or the individual that we're leading by the grace of God, that opportunity to know these markers or even know that there's more to this, it will make them like uncooked steak. Good on the outside, cold on the inside. Nobody likes a steak that looks good but is not cooked. Nobody likes a chicken on a summer day that is barbecued. I'm a barbecue guy. I love to grill on the grill. I remember when I was first learning to grill, I would just put it on the barbecue, put the charcoal there, everything there, light the fire. I'll be cooking the barbecue, the chicken, the chicken. I'll go, it's finished and my brothers will go and they will bite into it. Because red all over is because if the chicken is not fully cooked, it has the propensity to provide and bring forth sickness. And so chicken, if not cooked well, somebody can be very ill. The same way that if a leader is not cooked well, you can also bring illness, sickness, trouble, issue. So to speak to a generation. So it's literally essential, as we're talking about this, it's essential for us to develop leaders. That's why one thing I love about my brother and one thing that we share in common is our passion for leadership development. Like we want, you have the round off of Jay, a mentorship institute, Rami, we have a passion to raise leaders, our vision at TLC, transforming lives, raising leaders. Because we understand that the formation and training of leaders is one of the answers to the world's problem. Go ahead, bro. True. I can say the enlisting to your name. Oh, bro. We are telling him I'm shy. All right. So, he talks about the fact that they will give you two loaves of bread and you shall receive it from the hands. You have to go ahead and strive for the third one. The verse number five, that brings us to another essential. He says that after that, after that, you shall come to the heel of God. Where the Philistine garrison is. Let's stay right there. One essentials of the calling is battles. Is war. I am a father by the grace of God, have three children. Lovely children. Two boys, one girl. And I've seen that every child, there's a stage where when you are giving them food, they don't want to eat. You will even have to threaten them. And all of every child gets to a place where it's almost like when you're handling them food, they don't. And then in these stages, they get sick. They grow lean. Some of them maybe in other sense, outside of food, they may catch some flu. And all of that, and they can get sick. And I observe that in these moments, by the time you check, you'll be like, "Oh, he's become slim. He's growing lean. He's losing weight." But at the time, you would observe, he's grown a bit taller. So it's almost perceived in these moments where it looks like they are beating, they are bartered, and all of these kind of things. If you observe them carefully, by the time you observe, they've just grown a little centimeter taller, and it's something that I've always marveled at. You know, over here, this man says, "You meet these men, they'll greet you, they'll give you the bread, all of these kind of things." The next place you are going after you've received the bread, he says that you would come to the hill of God. In other words, you are coming to the place where God dwells. Now, remember these men are sending the hill. I'm 24, who shall come, who shall I send into the hill of God, who would come into his holy place. He's talking about the fact that, you know, these men are going up the hill of God. They are going to Bethel. Now, he's saying that when you come, you know, when you meet these people after that, he said, "You would come to the hill of God where the garrison of the Philistines." is. Garzin is a soldier post. Yes. Garzin is a barrier. It's a station where there, when you're talking about Garzin, you're talking about a place where there is a station of soldiers, a stronghold of soldiers. That's a stronghold of soldiers. He said, "You would come to the hill of God where the Garzin of the Philistines is." It means that the station before you get to where God dwells. On that hill of God, that is the exact place where the enemy has erected his post. Listen, if you haven't shared this podcast, share this podcast right now. My God. So, my question that I want to ask you is this, what is it? Tell me some of the trying moments. You potentially faced when you just thought you had gotten into the place where you had your biggest breakthrough. Some one of my biggest falls of life, one of my biggest falls of life that I would never ever forget, was after I did one of the biggest conferences of my life many, many years back. It's almost crazy that at the time that I felt like I was the strongest and the highest and the 9th is almost as if both the Lord and the devil said, "We teach this guy a lesson." That he's not as deep as he thinks he is or as strong as he is. Imagine you approaching the hill of God. But he said, "That is also the very place where the garrison of the Philistines is." And one of the essentials of this call is that, before you get to the hill of God, before you get to the place where you have to be, there's a post of the enemy that is waiting to try. Before Jesus' manifestation, he was sent into the wilderness to be tempted and tried. I felt and great was my fault. My aunt was my fault. I remember I went to my postal back then and I told him, "Dada da da da da, accountability." What he spoke about. And he said this to me, "It's good it happened because you would know from today you are not invincible." And he said to me, "This was given to buffet you so that you don't become conceited." The post said, "It's a less eye-de-exalted beyond measure that was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me." Because right next to the hill of God is where the garrison of the Philistines is, "To that young man who just finished that conference, that just sold a million dollar." That just made a million dollars. Who's pissed? That's just great. Who that guy just felt like they've just gotten into their breakthrough. He did think that he stand. Let him be careful. Let's hear false. That's the first thing. Number two, it also means that there's a rank. A man will never obtain or obtain onto the hill of God. Because you are going to ascend the hill of God. But the garrison of the Philistines is a place that you have to be able to go fight, cross, overcome. And I know that you've preached about this thing in our church. In Germany and in London about David saying that he longs for the water of Bethlehem. Right before this place, the West battles and people that they had to fight through and all of these kinds of things. And do you know something? There is somebody close to the hill of God in ministry. But when they saw the garrison of the Philistines, they retreated. Because they are saying if this is what God has for me, it shouldn't come with battle. What do you say to such a person? There's many. There's many things I want to say. First of all, incredible revelation. Incredible revelation. The garrison of the Philistines is a whole sermon series. And that combined with the hill of Lord. Listen, the truth is there is no glory without battle. There was no elevation without pressure. There was no victory without battle. And if you're the individual. There's no breakthrough without resistance. There must be something for you to break through. A breakthrough means there's a challenge. There's no breakthrough without an obstacle. And so the truth is, if you can effect your others open on them. But there are many adversaries. Of course. People would see the adversaries and retreats and we wouldn't walk through that door. But that means that the door is never designed for you to walk through. The truth is that the truth is because when you have truly accepted the call and you've truly accepted and know that you have that ability to walk in ministry, business, marriage, whatever have you, you have to know that every next dimension is met with a strong battle. I have a question. Would you say we are not preaching truth to this generation? And we have preached a Christianity that offers everything easily without telling them that it's going to come with war. And that means that this generation, when we encounter war, we retreat and we say, well, that's not what the preacher told me because it's told me when you come to God everything is going to be okay. And you know, God has called you to the nations. But he doesn't tell you what giants you need to know. The Lord was very real with, you know, through Moses, the turn of Israel. In the land flown with milk on honey, there are giants. There are giants. Some of them are like, you know, there are the Jebysides. Yes. You know, the Hevvites, they at least he told them that you are going to a place filled flown with milk and honey, but there are giants. In the land. Sometimes stronger than the people you encountered in Egypt. Yes. So these people already had an understanding that where we are going to the garrison of the Philistines is there. It is the promised land, but there is still battle. I love that. Do you think that in our generation, we are preaching a gospel that you know, tells people it's going to be easy. It's going to be all right. And when they go and they find all of these challenges, they are saying, well, the pastor never told me this was going to happen. Or the second part of my question is that is it that our generation is weak and does not have spine. And because of that, when we encounter the garrison of the Philistines, we feel like if that is what is going to take for us to climb the hill of God, then we won't climb at all. Both. Okay. I'll elaborate. I'll elaborate. There's two things. I agree. I agree with you 100%. I feel as though at times as leaders and we're not rid of this. Yeah. We're a part of this. Yeah. I feel as though definitely we're not preaching the suffering enough. Okay. You know, there is an added suffering. Jesus says, you will suffer. Yeah. There is a suffering that I feel as though we don't preach as much. And I also do think though it is also context. Okay. Because if you're talking about somebody who is in a northern part of another nation or who is someone who is in a nation of a different religion, definitely, the suffering is more visible. So maybe this is a problem to West. It's possible that this is a Western problem. Yeah. Because when I go to Asia, I see people that are so ready to grow. I was in Indonesia last year. Yes. Yes. And you see people that would come up, ladies from young people from China, people from other places, then they would say, we are willing to die. We are willing to do this. We are willing to do that. Somebody would come and say, this is the ring, my grandmother gave me. I'm willing to sell it to relocate to another country to preach the gospel and all of these kind of things. And every evening, I'll sit with my people and I'll tell them, what are we doing in the UK? Do you think it's a Western problem where we have a gospel void of suffering? He brings a chapter number five, the verse number eight, the Bible says that though he's speaking of Jesus, that though he was a son, that he lent obedience by the many things he suffered. So that if we understand the context of suffering, then we know that, you know, the fact that I get to the garrison of the Philistines, does not mean that I must retreat because there is the power available to me to fight and to conquer because without a test, there will be no test upon. Without resistance, there will be no breakthrough. And if I'm going to be able to walk in the fullness of my calling, there are going to be adversaries. So that is what I'm saying. Is it just a context of, you're not speaking the truth or our generation is just generally weak, bro? If people live church for the most, the most, the most bizarre thing I can ever think of. - Absolutely. - I've seen people say things like, oh yeah, I'm not coming to church again, and I'm not going to serve again. - I didn't sit here in the seat I wanted to sit. - Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to serve again. I've had people that say, oh yeah, you know what? Past I think I need a break from serving, you know, because my cut's died. And you know, I think that you need to give me six weeks to mourn my cut. And when you're telling me, oh, the cut's dead, they're gonna be like, oh yeah, and these people is abused, and they're letting you overwreck yourself. I mean, there's a whole, you know, we'll talk about some of these things, us we're going, but it's a generation week or what's the problem, bro? - We are. - Everything that you're saying is exactly what's happening. One, we're not talking about suffering enough, and I really do think so. So in a Western context, absolutely. We are not talking in that. And if I'm even to go further, I would say even in an American and Canadian context, it's even far worse that we're not talking about the suffering because we're not demonstrating, it's not readily, it just comfort everywhere. So it makes the gospel, if every comfortable gospel, we sit in AC, you know, we arrive, we go to the green room, you come into church, everything is that we're not saying, don't have a comfortable church, we're not saying don't have a church that has great sound, great lighting, but what we're saying is don't allow those things to define your Christianity. - The reality of Christianity. - The reality of Christianity, I'm trying to say, that's the first thing. Secondly, yes, I don't think that our generation by and large are strong. And I think that that has to deal with what we were talking about in previous episodes, and we didn't even get to address it, is the topic of courage. - Okay. - Be strong and courageous. Be strong and courageous. I love how you said this years ago, when you were at Millmead, you were talking about it earlier today, I'll never forget this message you preached, you know, be strong in the Lord. - Yeah. - Be strong in the Lord. You were trying to pump in, and I felt the spirit, you said it like 10 times, and it was hitting me, and the way the keyboard was planted, he is hitting me, because what you were trying to pump into your people was listen, for what is ahead of us, we need strength. - We need. - We need strength. You were trying to make sure listen, you're back bone is strong. So that's why we go through fastings, that's why we go through liquid fastings, and it's not because we don't like to eat. - No. - It's because we know that if we don't kill our flesh, we won't have the ability to be strong. - I giants ahead of us. - There's giants ahead. - We need to conquer. We need to courage, we need to go in. So that's why I love what Caleb said. He says, "I went in there, and I saw the sons of Ana Carthair. I know there's giants there, but it's but we can conquer there." - We can. - He says, "We're strong." He said, "Listen, we can do this, Tig Joshua and Caleb's, they said, we can do this thing. - Jesus. - We can get the job done. We can overpower them. We can overtake them. He says, "I even brought some samples from the land. Look, it's flowing with milk and honey. There's fruit, there's evidence. We can do it. And sometimes God would allow you to taste a bit of evidence of victory so that you can have confidence and courage to rise up within you. I'm telling you, I saw the issue is, we don't have courageous leaders. - In one of the episodes, you spoke about the fact that when David came to Saul, he made a reference to the fact that he fought the lion and the bear. - When he had an opportunity to go and fight, go lion, he said the same way with these hands, I tore these lion into pieces and I tore these best in pieces. He said, "It is the same way I'm going to kill this guy." This guy was making a reference that the courage, in which he's going into this button and what gives him assurance of victory is that he fought some things in the past. - Oh my God, oh my God. - My God, my God. He said, "Look, I'm not just a young man that is just, "you know, just making noise. "There are things a fought and overcome "and this guy would not be an exception." Many years ago, I had something from Agri Shobdenkhan Williams I would never forget. He said, "He does not care about how I'm knowing that you are." He said, "Proof to me what you fought and overcame." - My God. - He said, "If you can show me what you fought and overcame, "I'll be willing to sit with you on the table "and listen to whatever you have to say." And I think that, you know, even in our schools, you don't get to a next level without writing a test. - Yes, there's an exam, there's an exam. And it's incredible that one of the essentials of your journey or your calling is that there are battles God will bring your way to fight. You are building your resume, you are writing your portfolio, you are proving your rank in the spirit realm and the only way you are able to prove your rank in the spirit realm, ah, listen, I'm not going to leave my life in the hands of a man who has not fought nothing to lead me. I want to know, I've had stories, you have spoken about, you know, all of these times that you got sick and there's happened that you are the point of death and death and that and that and the various, you know, things you have overcome are the garrison of the Philistines, you know, which was, you know, in your way of getting into the hill of God. And I think we have to do a whole series on a suffering. - Oh, yes. - So now, now, now, the moment you stretch anybody and literally, - It's an identification is abuse. - Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. The moment you stretch anybody, even, even a little in a generation, it is abuse because our generation have not come to understand that the highway to the hill of God is to the garrison of the Philistines. So now, now, - So good. - Bro, bro, bro, I've sat with leaders, I've sat with pastors, I've sat with people who have come to me and they say, "How are you getting this done in your church?" We don't know how. People, we're even afraid to say anything to them because when we say anything to them, it's almost as if in our generation, leaders are the mercy of the flock. - Wow. - It's almost as if in our generation, the flock leads to Sherbet and not the other way around. Because everybody's overly sensitive. Everybody's overly stimulated. Everybody is, it feels some type of way in some way, and it's almost as if there is a line nobody should cross because people will come and take talk and insult you. People will come on Instagram and bastardize you. People are going to talk about the fact that you are abusing them and this and that and that and that. And what happens is that there is a Christian generation that would journey closer to the promised land, but when they see the anarchites, when they see the Jebwessites, they see the hymns, they see the garrison of the Philistines, they run away because if God is going to give this to me, it has to be without battle. - And that is one of the biggest misconceptions is that I'm going to receive victory without battle. I don't trust any victory without battle. I don't trust any chair that hasn't been tested. If this chair didn't go through different types of checks and all these different things and all that stuff, it wouldn't even be able to leave the store for us to be able to sit on. It's been tested, it's been tried, it's gone through fire, it's been developed. It's the same way that a victory that is given to me without battle is not a real victory. It's a favor and a gift. - Wow. - I don't want gifts in life. I don't want gifts in ministry. I want victories in ministry. And to get victories in ministry, it is not rid of battles by the garrison of the Philistines. And I understand this, my brother Ray, you know, he went through so many different health challenges and you know about it, so many different battles and challenges in his health. And I will spare all the details 'cause I'm sure he wouldn't want me to go into all that. But even to the point of death, like death that your brother is dying, you see him and you're like, yo, it's so, you know, it can become even so traumatic that it's even hard to speak about. How he's going through this battle, people are leaving, things are happening, ministries going this way, that way, back doors open, this is happening, your brother is in the hospital, he's dying, fighting for his life. Let, let, leave my issues away. Now, I'm seeing somebody that I love and I have no power to help other than prayer. Nope, no professional, you know, assistance can I provide other than spiritual assistance by the way of prayer. And you're looking to say, God, how can you allow us to go through all of this when we already went to the tomb of Rachel? We already went to, you know, see the men going up today. We've already seen the goats and the loaves and the wine. We've gone to Samuel, we have the word, we've gotten the affection of the Father, we have all these things and now we're getting to the hill of the Lord. There's the breakthrough that we see coming up on the other side and as we see this breakthrough, we now see the garrison of the Philistines and we see my brother and he's fighting for his life. And you act yourself. Is this going to be my reality? I'll be real. There was a moment where I said, I thought to myself, is there only going to be three of us? Because of how dire the situation is, how crazy the situation was. And bro, and this is why you need brothers, you know, a parcel roundoff would come around, call us, check up on us, the family, so many other brothers that I have around the world call, check up, see what's going on. They didn't know what was going on. They didn't know that we were just at the point of a breakthrough. True. - Postal. - See him now. See him now. That's all I wanted to get to you. Yeah. Is to see him now. Yeah. The work, the ministry, the things that God is using him to do, the creativity, his so many things, the fruit of his ministry that's coming out, I know was because he went through the garrison of the Philistines. It means some butters in life, your father's can fight for you. He stood there, right by the bed. It can be there to support you, but you have to go through it. 1000%. And the truth of the matter is that it's not there to kill you. It's there to strengthen you because after you've overcome, you know, there is a great reward. So I think that one of the things that we want people, this is the Sherpenspec. And we want people to know that what the things God is promising you, is not going to come easily as you think. It's not without battle. There's going to be the cross. There's going to be the garrison of the Philistines. There are going to be things that you need to be able to fight and overcome in order for you to prove your ministry. This was going to take us to, you know, that type of place, because over here he's going to say this, you know, when the garrison of the Philistines, is that it will happen when you have come there to that city. It means the garrison is you need to overcome that to come to the gates of the city. Right. It's that when it will happen, it will happen when you have come there to the city that you will meet a group of prophets coming down from the high place with a stringed instrument, a tambourine, a flute, and a harp before them. And they'll be prophesying. And the spirit of the Lord will come upon you. And you will prophesy with them and be turned into another man. And let it be when these signs, what are these signs? I've anointed you, but you have to die. You have to encounter these people. You have to be in your word. You have to press in for the revelation. You have to go through that place where you fight the battle of the gates and then you come into the place of the company and the association. And what is upon them is going to be upon you. He said, let it be when these signs come to you, do as the occasion demands for God is with you. So we would see that even though in verse one, here, there was an identification of his prophecy. Oyer was spot upon him. He did not have the right to do as the occasion demands because he had not gone through the process. He had not been tried by some things, met some things, died to some things and counted some things, studied something. He said, now that you've been, when you've gone through all of these signs and you've seen all of these things happen, you'll not get to the place where you have the right to do as the occasion demands because you have gone through every step of the way and passed through the test. Now, now, you know, for the sake of time, because I know that we have to wrap up, you know, maybe your final word said that we don't have to come back to this topic again for now. Absolutely. After the garrison of the Philistines, that you come into the company of the prophet, one of the sentials of your calling is the company you find yourself in. Absolutely. Talk about that. The power of association is a very strong thing. You know, the oil can come upon you by so many different means. And one of the ways that the oil is transferred is by association who is in your circle, who is around you. Because eyes, you know, the Bible says, iron sharp in it, iron, meaning that when you surround yourself with people, you get stronger. So like I was saying on whichever day we were talking, that me always coming and being able to just come to London is not more for me to pour. It's for me to be sharpened so that I can go back to Canada stronger, sharper, better. When you surround yourself with the right company, you'll be able to see that your life will go to another level. I think we may have to do one of the episodes or one of the series on good company and the right company and the right people you need in your corner. Because the truth of the matter is is that it wasn't just that prophets were there, but it was what they were playing. Hostel, you have one playing a harp. It's okay. Let's come back to that food. People are getting too excited. You have one playing the harp. You have one playing the flute. You have one playing the tambourine. Tambourine is the rhythm. It's okay. It's okay. - So, so, so, so, so, so, Robert that brought. - All right, let's leave them there. We'll leave it right here. - That's a, that's the way, - That is the way, that is the way. - They'll watch them actually. - You're right, you're right, you're right. - Talk, talk, talk, talk. - Listen, this been The Shepherd's Bench, myself, Apostle Randolph and Jay, right here. Listen, we are so grateful that you've been tuning in and following this journey. We've spoken about a whole host of different things. And listen, we have an episode coming out very shortly. So keep your eyes glued to all of the platforms. We love you and we can't wait to speak with you soon. God bless. - Shallow.