508: AI, Patterns and the Future of Coaching

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to take a moment to talk to you directly - coach to coach. If you're working towards your ACC or PCC credential, or if it's time to recertify your ACC, mentor coaching isn't just a requirement on a checklist. It's one of the most transformative investments you can make in yourself and your coaching. I've taught or mentored over 2000 coaches, and I hear the same thing again and again. I came because I had to, and I am so glad that I did. Coaches tell me they walk away with renewed energy, deeper confidence, and a community of peers who genuinely support each other. Here's what you need to know right now. Mentored coaching must span a minimum of three months, so the time to start is not when your credential is just about to expire. And if you complete your hours in 2026, you get ahead of the upcoming ICF changes, which means peace of mind along with skilled development. My fall cohort is already filling up. Every group is capped at 10. It's small, personal, and powerful. If you've been waiting for the right time, this is it. So head over to starcoachshow.com/mentor that starcoachshow.com/m-e-n-t-o-r to grab your spot or to learn more. I'd love to work with you. Now let's get into today's show. I'm irreplaceable. AI could never replace what I do. Now that actually isn't the point. The point is do your clients think they can replace you with AI. And the way AI works, which probably won't go into today, but it actually the way it's structured is it will make you think it is coaching you, and it's actually not. It's often reinforcing your existing beliefs. Welcome back to the starcoach show. I'm Meg Ranchler, and if want you just heard intrigue, welcome to the club because we are diving into a topic today that seems to stir up more angst and excitement among coaches these days than almost anything else. Artificial intelligence. My guest today is Dr. Lisa Turner, founder of CET Freedom. She's a PhD engineer in mathematical modeling who now applies that same pattern spotting brain to consciousness, transformation, and yes, AI. She's built numerous AI tools and apps. She's the author of five books including CET yourself free. And today she's bringing a perspective on AI that I think is going to be new and enlightening for you. Now we start with something that Lisa calls the Venn diagram of you. Why the advice of niching down to one avatar with one problem and one solution might be exactly the wrong move in an AI saturated world. And how the intersection of your unique training experiences and the lens you look through is exactly what makes you impossible to replace. Now from there we're going to get practical. Lisa walks us through what she calls the three waves of AI that coaches can use and the importance of spotting patterns for our client relationships. Lisa doesn't hold back on her own story either. She shares how her lived experience as a survivor of a coercively controlling relationship became one of the lenses she now brings to her work. And how she's using AI to make invisible patterns of coercion visible. Now if this work resonates with you there's even an opportunity to join her network of coaches. This is a rich conversation and honestly we've only scratched the surface. If you are a member of the Starcoach community Lisa offers a pearl of wisdom that flips the classic follow your passion advice on its head and tells you exactly what to follow instead if you want to make change in this world. If you're not yet a member of the Starcoach community that bonus content along with a plethora of exclusive content for the community is one of the many reasons that you want to join us. So head to Starcoachshow.com/member and learn more about our community. All right, let's get into it with Dr. Lisa Turner. Dr. Lisa Turner, welcome to the Starcoach show. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. We have wanted to make this happen. The universe had other plans but we hung in there and we're together today and I'm over the moon excited. I'm also over the moon excited to be with all of you today. I got to let you know that you are in for an amazing episode. Every week we do something to help you thrive as a coach and today we're leaning into that thing that seems to be everywhere all the time. Both angst and excitement. It's kind of I don't know a very many topics that bring up as many emotions as AI seems to and my guest today is an expert in this topic and also how you as a coach can utilize these tools. Maybe you're under utilizing. Maybe you could shift perspective a little bit. Maybe you're doing everything exactly the way you want to and I promise you Lisa still has new insights to give you. So let me tell you why I was so excited when I opened up my inbox and saw an exploration of do you want to have Lisa on your show. I read through what she does who she is and said yeah I want to have Lisa on my show. So Dr. Lisa Turner is the founder of CET freedom. Her book CET yourself free is one that I would encourage you to get right away but not while you're listening to this interview. Stay focused on us right now. She's also the creator of a suite of AI tools that helps coaches and practitioners. Yes, your ears should perk up because that's you make the invisible visible. Now this is probably what absolutely makes me like put my hand down to her. She has a PhD engineer in mathematical modeling around turned consciousness and trans so so she was so you used to do that mathematical modeling and now you do consciousness and transformation which is like right in our lane because I got to tell you Lisa that whole mathematical PhD thing blows my mind. I'm so impressed with you. I can't stand it but what that allows us to do is lean into a thing that is very key to coaches patterns. Patterns are so important and Lisa's work helps us navigate patterns. There's 152 things this woman does does well. She's got five books that I encourage you to look into. Her entire bio is going to be in the show notes. I just am like so excited to talk about three we're really diving into three things today so think about this ladies and gentlemen. What's your then diagram? What does that mean? We're going to tell you how we go right back to that whole concept of patterns so how do you look for patterns and maybe not even in this order but these are things we're going to be talking about how are you using AI and what might you be able to do a little differently to really benefit you and the work that you do. So if that doesn't make you want to strip on your seat belts and stay with us I don't know what to tell you but I'm turning it over to Lisa. Let's start with this whole concept of a then diagram. What in the world does that have to do with us? Yeah so I think it's quite interesting so this is about the then diagram of you and I'm actually going to backtrack a little bit and give you the like why why is this concept even like showing up so and why is it showing up in the concept in the in the like the field of coaching and AI. Now I think you'll love this I think you'll love this because this actually just landed for me today and I believe I got this I was like oh this makes some sense so I sometimes think of myself as a bit of a futurist and I'm often working on things. Now that like people are going what are you talking about Lisa and then Intense I'm everyone's doing it. I everyone's like oh my gosh Lisa's brilliant. She was talking about this 10 years ago Yeah, but then I'm talking about something else and they're going what are you doing now? So as a futurist seeing kind of things that are coming so Everyone is looking at AI and I think if you're using AI It's really easy to think everyone's using AI like the we're in this bubble. It's like Maybe or maybe not maybe because actually if you look at the number of people who are actually I want to say using it. I mean really using it like it is a like a bedrock of their daily Tools and resources in the way that the internet is in the way that Email isn't even anymore, but it's like we still use email, right? It's like alcohol, right? Yeah, yeah, it's like Everyone has a smartphone now and it's like 20 years ago It was a few so we are still in that Early early adopter phase and because I'm like I'm always an early adopter of stuff being a futurist that makes sense Okay, it kind of happens. It kind of happens. Yeah, and I love a gadget as well. So so What I see happening in the world the realm of coaching and AI, I see a Lot of coaches thinking Possibly and it's not necessarily that miss their mistaken, but they they might be thinking I'm irreplaceable AI could never replace what I do now that actually isn't the point the point is do your clients think They can replace you with AI and the way AI works which probably won't go into today, but it actually The way it's structured is it will make you think it is coaching you and it's actually Not it's often reinforcing in your existing beliefs. If you just go straight with a large language model If you're just using Claude or chat GPT or Gemini, it'll likely do that now Here's the thing about where I see the industry of coaching like where I think coaches need to take themselves And where we need to open ourselves up to thinking about and I often call myself a polymess which means I'm really interested in lots of stuff And I find it hard when people say what do you do and it's like when depends who's asking who's asking Like on one day I might be a somebody who swims in the sea Somebody who makes things I've got a laser cutter. That's my new gadget that I'm playing with anyway So the thing about like doing a lot of things is that we've been taught in coaching and in marketing and in business Pick your one avatar with the one problem that you solve and give the one solution Here is my thought now I could be wrong. I'm really wrong, but I am wrong sometimes I actually think that is gonna be blown out of the water Because people think they can get that from AI if they've got a problem They go to the go to AI over the problem and AI will give them something that looks like a solution It might not be a solution, but it looks like a solution and therefore and they get the dopamine hit. They're happy Here's where the Venn diagram comes in so You are not just This training you did or this specialism of coaching or this transformational technique or this kind of process or these kinds of clients or You are you you're a whole person constellation And that is again another therapeutic modality So I believe that people are going like your clients are going to be seeking out Whole people because they can get the one problem one solution from AI or they think they can They actually can't but they think they can and that's the main that's kind of our problem as coaches So Should we give everyone a little bit of homework? Oh yeah, let's do that. Here is your homework List all the things you have ever studied done experienced and love and If somebody like you met somebody who was a stranger who was interested in that you could probably like fire up a conversation and chat for 30 minutes without blinking and hopefully breathing And because that is the whole like what you'll do is if you find all of those things That is the basis of you starting your Venn diagram So if I think about so to use me and to give you an a tangible real example of this so I was invited to do a TED talk a TEDx talk about how AI can identify the patterns of coercive control toxic behavior In relationships or in the workplace even in coaching communities and spiritual communities works across all of them And how we can use AI to do that so making the invisible visible And I will confess even though I have a PhD in mathematical modeling I do not have a PhD in AI I know a little bit about machine learning and a little bit about I mean my programming languages were fortran I mean that's old old school right still know how to do it a little bit. I know about a do loop anyway I was doing imposter syndrome and I'm like whoa Okay, so I have an app one of my little catch phrases is if I haven't got one I can I can normally build So I did actually build an app for imposter syndrome And it's one of the things that my my clients use with their clients and my clients are different coaches And they use the imposter syndrome buster. It's called fraudless because you get rid of all your fraud You're in a fraud feeling like a fraud. Let's be fraudless And love it all of my imposter syndrome through that and I'm chatting away with this app And it's like it's at least a You may not know Everything about AI You may not know everything there is to know about coaching a personal transformation You may not know everything there is to know about coercive control And abusive relationships, but here's what you know You have a PhD in mathematical modeling and patent spotting So you can look at everything through the lens of an engineer Looking for the logic and the formula. I often say there's always an algorithm underneath You have done 30 years of transformational work deep diving into the mechanisms of transformation You know enough about that another thing that not everyone knows about me I was actually good. Well, I won't go into it a lot but trigger alert but coaches can normally handle it You probably work with clients like I used to be So I was groomed and trafficked as a child. So I lived inside a coercive controlling relationship And my fraudless app said you see all of that through the lens of a survivor And those three circles mathematical modeling engineering transformational coaching work coercive control lens of a survivor There is no one on the planet Well, I'd be surprised if they are phony up. I want to talk to you with those three extremely specific And quite diverse A range of experiences and knowledge and trainings So You everyone listening you have your own Venn diagram now you may have two circles You may have three you may have 27 if you've got 27 refine it down put them into categories That's probably too many if you're brain to handle Go for no more than I would say Seven maximum ideal is three to five circles of expertise and find where they all and that area where they all overlap That is where you are irreplaceable unbeatable and there is zero competition Doesn't like this is where you don't need to niche down we're niching out We're becoming the whole person So that is my Venn diagram theory So that sweet spot in your Venn diagram it was from that spot That you entered your TEDx talk and owned the stage Because you knew that that was your uniqueness and that you had something to offer the nobody else could offer Exactly Exactly. Yes, and every single one of us has this and this is not about being The niche down being the best person in the world at that one thing This is about Being good enough Right good enough And probably like really pretty damn good in some of them because everyone is because that's you know that's your thing Like good In lots of things And there will be no then no one will have that experience no one will have your lens your perspective your experience I'm bringing all of those together Right there ladies and gentlemen do not leave us because we have lots more to share But that right there was worth your price of admission. Okay, beautiful Let's blow everybody Top of their heads off just a little bit how many AI programs and apps have you have you developed My current reckoning it's about 140 now Oh my goodness. That is just amazing. So with that I'm willing to bet that you could share a little bit of insights about Maybe what your understanding is of how coaches tend to use AI and what else might be available? Yeah, yeah. So I think the easiest way to explain this is to talk about the three, maybe the three uses or the three waves of AI. So the first is, and if you're using AI and you've been using it for a bit, you're probably doing this. And that is the content creation. So that's getting it to write your social media posts, the videos for your blogs, so articles for your blogs and scripts for your videos. And so just your content creation. And there's, you know, you can get really good at that. You can be terrible at that. Like there are a lot of, there's a lot of people who talk about the AI slop. In this category, I say there's a different stream made by AI and made with AI. So when you make it by AI, you say, I'll go and write me an article about coaching and leadership. And it'll come up with something that looks in like the thing about AI is, and this is the danger of it. AI output often looks more sophisticated than it is, because it gives you a lot of like a lot of barnum statements, a lot of things that are universally applicable. And it's quite superficial. And that's actually by design because of the way it works. I won't go into that, but so the phrase GPT, it actually stands for generative, pre-trained transformer. I say, really, I think it is a great predictive text machine, because that's kind of, it's like just really fancy predictive text. So when it comes to making creating content with AI, this is where you would go to your LLM. So first of all, you would train it on your content pillars, your niche, your avatar, your languaging, how you say things, you would train it first, then what you would do, which most people don't bother to. And then what you would do is you would say, okay, here's an idea I've got. Can you go do some research for me? Okay, argue with me about it, like take a contrary position. Now I want you to agree with me, show me where I'm right, show me where I'm wrong. And then out of that kind of sparring, you will come out with an original or more original, and what I call decidable. That means it's not like, you know, there's a lot of content delusual people are just throwing volume out. This is where you create something that is citable, that is interesting enough, because it's different. So that's why we've won content creation. Two ways of using that made by AI made with AI, where it's your idea honed and crafted and then refilled. AI is almost like a thought partner instead of just regurgitating and throwing correct stuff. You're actually, you're driving the boat. Yes, yes. Now I could say more about that, because some people say that there's studies, I mean, there are some studies done that suggest that people are outsourcing their thinking in a way that's making them dumber. There's also contrary research that says, actually, when you do it in the right way, it makes you smarter. And there's lots of growing evidence for that. So don't get, don't be afraid of using AI and doing stuff with AI but not by AI. So wave one content creation, most coaches are on that like surfing that wave now. Wave two is the agentic AI. So this morning, for you, the staff knew of me, I had a client call and we had a bunch of students, a bunch of clients all being and I was a bit of content, bit of teaching, bit of coaching. And then after that, I go to my, I go to my Claude, which is hooked up to zoom, to Descript, to my Google Drive, to click up, which is my project management system with my team. And I say run Rex, which is Rex, the recording process. So Rex is an agent that I built. I've actually got 14 agents, they're like team members and they all have their own jobs. I got Edith the editor, Miranda, the marketing mogul, Oscar the ops. Anyway, picture the PR. Emily the email. So I ran Rex. Now what Rex does, goes into zoom, gets the transcript, takes the transcript, pulls out testimonials, pulls out sizable bits that we can put on social media, then gives a content pack to my VA. So she knows where to upload it into the members area with a whole chunk of like, here's what we, like a summary of what we covered in any homework. It also pulls out, have you ever been on a group coaching call and then someone says, oh, can you get me that document? And you go, yeah, I'll get you that. And then you completely forget about it. What Rex does is it says, I found three things that I think different team members need to do. Would you like me to create, click up tasks to allocate those to people. Thank you, Rex. Yes. Thank you, Rex. So that is agente.gei. So the first one is get, so content creation, wave one, getting it to write for you. Agente.gei, wave two, getting it to do things for you. Now, the third wave is where we go beyond productivity. We go beyond beyond. And this is where we get it to show us things, to reveal the patterns. So one of my apps is called the language lab as an example. And I, so I always pseudo anonymize. So I take out the names before I upload it into it. But I upload a transcript of maybe a coaching session. And what it does is it looks at the assumptions, the presuppositions, the structure of the language, repeated phrases. How many times they said something? How did they say it? What were the qualifiers, quantifiers, adverbs, adjectives they use to soften it, strengthen it. And then it does with this whole piece of processing. And it says, based on this transcript, here's what I see, they are running an unconscious limiting belief of they'll never be good enough. They are running an unconscious assumption. And like it'll look for the constructs, the model of the world that they're running. Now, this kind of work is done in coaching anyway. You probably learnt some language stuff, you know, and how to ask the right questions and things like that. That's part of your, like every, if it's not part of a coach training, I don't know what you what you trained in. Something else. When I get genuinely something else, that's not linguistic. But NLP, so the meta model questioning, but it even goes like right, like even deeper. And we have, I've trained it on 39 different forms of linguistic assumptions that I found. And it identifies them. And then it will block them into patterns and say, this is the limiting belief based on this block of kind of a, this, you know, this language block. And it'll pull out different sentences, different phrases. And then I'll feed back to it what I saw. And then it'll go, yeah, I saw that too, but this is what's deeper. And this is what's underneath that. So it's like, there's the surface limiting belief that there's like the baggage, the client thinks they're bringing to the session. And good coaches can find the baggage that they're really carrying that even they don't know. And good therapists and good practitioners will be able to find that. Especially I love it when a client comes against, I haven't got much to work on today. And it's like, whoa, I'm going to get one because that's when you know the nervous system is settled enough that all the juicy stuff is going to really come up. Anyway, so it gives you all of these really, really deep things that we as humans would probably miss. And that's just one of my amps. So what are you finding that coaches, your clients who are coaches as well? How are they using that information then to better the client experience? Great question. So what they would do is they would run that between sessions. It doesn't yet run live. It's not good to do that. I actually find you get a better result. And it's better for you. Because if you're running it live, you are distracted by the output. You're not fully present. So like, when people say, oh, can you run it live? And it's like, I could make it do that. But I actually don't want to. I want, like, you should be being present. So there's that. But what it does is like, okay, you know, you know, when you take your notes after the session and you have a little room and then you're next about to go to, you know, that clients on your calendar again, it's like, what did we talk about last time? What happened last time? Where are they at? And you go, aha, okay, this is what we found. And it will even assist you to formulate questions to ask journaling prompts to give the clients. So what you can do is run the analysis and then send the clients some homework of here are some journaling prompts. I want you to journal on send them that to me, that output, you know, like, not the output, but like, like, what you journal on back to me before our session, if you know, if they were willing to do that, or you can give them some, it can give you some exercises, some homework for the clients to do. I always call them experiments to run. So it's calm experiments, too. Things to experiment with. And then it will also give you some things that it will suggest based on. So mine, mine are trained on me and I often built and I build these for these custom tools for coaches so that it's trained for like on the coach and what the coach knows. So the coach is specialisms. So if the coaches are specialists in CBT say it will give them CBT exercises to do and to processes to take the client through. So it won't take you out of your, like, training experience, but it will definitely deepen what you already know. So those are just a few of the ways that we can use them. I could go on and on. That is so exciting. And I do need to apologize for anybody who might be, like, distracted by my dog. There's a lot of people who've been coming to my door. I don't know what's going on, But I'm glad that you guys are not hearing and if people want to know more about your app and how they can access things like that. We're going to get into the next topic. But I'm just, like, this is a prime time to talk about, how would they even begin to access what you have to offer? So the best thing to do is to head over to my website, cetfreedom.com and sign up for any of the freebies. We've got several freebies there. So one of them on that page is a free app that we'll give you, which is called belief scan. Now, what this one does is-- and it's normally-- I think it's, say, the 27 pounds or 37 pounds, I can't remember. But you guys can get it for free because if you use the code free-belief at checkout, so that's free-belief, you'll get it for free, 100% discount. And what that one does is, this one shows you-- when you're in a sales conversation-- it shows you that you drop the transcript in. And the way I often do my sales process is I actually DM and email people back and forth. I actually prefer that to the intensity-- and my prospects do as well over the intensity of sitting there on a Zoom call and the way my diary is. And if your diary is like mine, it's probably hard to get in your diary. So you can actually run it through. And what belief scan shows is, when someone gives you an objection to buying or signing up for your program, we all know that that's not the real reason, right? But based on the conversation, it looks at, again, the underlying assumptions of what's really in the way, which means you can work with what's really stopping them, which is often their own limiting beliefs. So sometimes people are like, oh, I can't accept help. Oh, it's not OK to get coaching. I mean, we know that people are running this. They want the coaching, but they don't sign up for it, because they've got something running. The belief scan will give you-- now, isn't 100% accurate? Of course not. Does it give you something to work with? Absolutely. Absolutely. Does it work 90% of the time? Yeah. So just for clarity, would you then record that and have the belief scan deal with the transcript? Or would you kind of put in what you heard if you didn't work? How are we getting what we're hearing into the belief scan? So you can absolutely just describe what went on, and it will give you a good guess. It will not be as accurate as it would be if you put in the actual words they said, and particularly like the back and forth, like the two-- the both parts of the conversation. So it works best if you're doing-- like, I do a lot of messenger-- Oh, like you said, I'm sorry. You said you were back. Yeah, I mean, that's just how I do it. And you know, you can absolutely do it with a transcript. The way you can make it work-- so what you would do is you would not necessarily make the offer or try and close them on the call. Because if you've got a hard know, then it's hard to open up again. So oh, one other thing. So you go, OK, I'm going to make a suggestion. Here's the program. Here's the price point. Go and think about it. Now, first of all, that puts them-- because most coaches don't do that. Most of them go, like, oh, here's the discount. You've signed up today. And we've all had that sales training and stuff. And that's-- yeah, I personally-- this is what I found of 20 years of doing this. I personally don't want to work with someone because they're getting a discount for doing it now. What that means is I want somebody to come to my work really, expansively, knowing that this is what's going to work for them to get them the result they want. And so I want them to take the time to do that. I mean, sometimes when they say, I don't want to think about, I want to sign up now. Great. Great. We'll sign you up now. That's what you absolutely-- but there's no pressure. But I don't need the belief scan because it doesn't matter. We've already-- Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so what you would do is at the end of the conversation, you would say, OK, here's the program. I want you to go away and think about it because I want you to take your time to make the best decision that's the right fit for you. That, first of all, was like, there'll be like, oh, I've never worked like this before. Great. I like to turn thinking on its head. Then what you do is you say, and right now, where are you in your thinking? Are you feeling that this is something you do want to move forward and/or not? And if not, what are you feeling? What are your thoughts on? What are you sensing is the resistance that what has you say, feel that it's not right? And again, they're like, oh, that's weird. And that's partly why this whole process works. And so then they'll share whatever it is. Oh, it's a lot of money. Now, a lot of money might sound like an affordability issue, but sometimes it's a worthiness issue. That's a good point right there. I want, could you repeat that, please? So sometimes it sounds like an affordability issue. I mean, they say, oh, that's a lot of money. It sounds like an affordability issue, but sometimes it's a worthiness issue. A deserved ability issue. Oh, so good. Right there, we are rolling it in, ladies and gentlemen. Okay, so that belief scan, they will be links to access that. If you're watching us on YouTube, it'll be right below this video. And if you are listening to us, just go to the show notes for this episode and grab that link, you want that link. And thank you, thank you in advance for all of us that you're offering such a beautiful gift. As we are, we've talked about so many things, but I want to be sure that we take just a few minutes to talk about the concept of patterns. And the fact that we, with outside eyes and outside ears, and sometimes with beautiful tools, can see patterns that people who are in the middle of the pattern, i.e., our clients, can't necessarily see the pattern. Some of the awesome strength of a coaching partnership is what we can see from a different perspectives that our clients can. So what do you want us to just think about and explore and know about this whole concept of patterns? - Yeah, so I come from this, I have certain core ideas that are usually useful. And one of them is this idea that there's always an algorithm underneath, which means that there's always a pattern there somewhere if we can find it. And so the first thing about patterns is, it is actually almost impossible to see the pattern from within. And I, down here where I live in Cornwall, which is right in the southwest of England, we have a lot of labyrinths. So like these are these maids. So some of them are carved on rocks and some of them are carved into woodlands, like woodland walks. Some of them are like these literally a maze that's made with stones. And the thing is, when you're in it, you have no idea where the center is and no idea, like there's just one way in this, one way in and you keep going and then you'll end up coming out again. So you know the only way out is through, there's a shamanic theory for you. And there's a great coaching practice, right, the only way out is through, right? So when it comes to patterns, what we need to do is we need to get like out of the situation and see it from another perspective. And that's why coaching therapy, all of these modalities are so powerful. And the one of the approaches that I bring to this is, I think about there are four core components to all transformation. And they all come into that, like every modality that really works uses for all four. And so I'll list the four and then I'll give some examples of them. So the four are, some of them are going to sound a bit woo, but they're not woo when I explain it to this. So it's just how you language it sometimes. So the first is linguistic. So that's like your therapies, coaching, psychotherapy, NLP, hypnotherapy, that stuff, talking, talking cures, counseling, coaching, that one. Then we have the somatic. So that's the bodywork, the movement, the breathwork, the where do you feel it in your body, that stuff. So that's all, you know, all the breathwork, dance therapy, movement therapy, those ones. Then you have, and this is where it gets a little bit more ecstatic, but stick with me. So then we have energetic. Now, you might think of that as being like flowing energy vibes to someone. I, that might, that as an engineer, I say, that may or may not be true. I know it can certainly, when I'm both transmitting and receiving, I have the experience that it feels like that, but here's my take on it. I think it is that you are working so a really good coach, transformational coach, has the ability to change their inner state, connect to the client with their presence in such a way that it brings the client into that, that change state. And then they take the client, like now they're kind of connected, whether you call it energetically with presence, whatever, with rapport, but it feels deeper than just rapport. And then you can change your state and they will follow. So you could, Michael, that energy, you might call it presence. I don't get hung up on labels. Whatever works for you. But when I talk about this, it's like most people go, I know that, I know what you mean, but we haven't really got a language for it. - Right. - And then there's the force, and this is where it can, like the force can be described as the spiritual dimension. I think of it as just the transpersonal, 'cause it's where it's beyond the self. So that might be a version of you in the future that solved the problem or got the result. That's effectively transpersonal, 'cause it's not you here now. It's another you in the future. It might be yourself, might be, and if you're like a good coach, always trained to work with the construct of the client, right? So it might be their high self, might be their spirit guide, might be their dead granny. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. So those are the four components of powerful change. And his one thing I've noticed is that everyone has their own preferred method of experiencing change for themselves, which is why for one person energy modalities might work, but linguistics don't. So much because it's just a preference, but if you have zero linguistics and only energy, it still doesn't seem to work. And my, this is my take on this. I actually think you need all four to some degree. And when you miss any one of those four change, it seems to happen and then they flip back so they'll loop. And we've all had that transformed by on Tuesday, regressed by Thursday. And it's possibly because their nervous system, neurology, psychology, makeup has a higher preference for one of the four components that you aren't using as highly. Now, this is in no way anyone's fault. I want to be really clear. This just means you may be under-tooled in that area for that client. Doesn't mean you can't work it with that client. Absolutely not. It means you just, if you're aware of those four, and you are now, because I've explained them, you can probably do little weeby tweaky things that will change it and it will transform the results you get for your clients. We could do a whole episode just on that. And maybe we need to have you back to do a whole episode just on that. Happy to. Lisa, you have brought so much, not just food for thought, but tools. And I really believe that the audience is walking away with thinking about things that they had never thought about before, which is exactly what I want my guests to do, but you brought it in spades. And I thank you for that. As we're wrapping up our time together, I'm wondering if there's anything that we sort of left that was top of mind for you that you wanted to be sure that we explored, which I would be surprised because you gave so much. But if there is anything glaring, please take the opportunity. There's only one thing, which is I am about to launch an app called Validate that, and this is not for coaches, but it kind of is to bear with me. So Validate is an app that I, that the end user is somebody who is in a relationship that they suspect is coercively controlling abusive toxic in some way. And the app identifies that it identifies and labels the behavior. Here's what I am going to need. Every single one of my beta testers has come through that. When it's flagged something, they go, Oh my God, I need coaching. Here's the thing. I don't have capacity. So head over to my website. The first thing is get on my newsletter. Scroll down to the bottom. There's a sign up for the newsletter. You'll be the first to know when we launch the coach certification training. I don't care what modality you have. We are going to need them all because here's the thing I know. Predominantly women are in coercively controlling relationships. They want choice because that's what's been stripped of them. So if you're listening to this, watching this and, you know, I want the NLP practitioners want the reiki masters. I want the CBTs. I want the hypnotherapists. I want the coaches. I want the relationship that please come because we're what we're going to be doing is putting together a directory of practitioners so that my end users of the Validate app have some way to go with now. I will be requiring you to take a not very expensive but thorough training so that you understand the app and its output and the very specific and different way that we need as practitioners to work with people who've been in coercive controlling relationships because there are certain constructs that just don't work and certain things that you absolutely need to bring into your practice. So we'll just want to make sure that and just make sure everyone's got the benchmark. Everyone knows what everyone knows what the output actually means because that's what your client is going to say. So we're going to build this directory. Come, we are going to need you because there is a huge number of people. I've got thousands on the waiting list for the app. 90% of people who have used the app in beta testing have said, oh my god, I think I need coaching. I'm frankly slightly terrified that I'm not well. So please join me. Let's play, save the world, heal relationships, free women, free anyone who's trapped by their life, by their relationship, by their situation. But I just want to reinforce that whole aspect of you being responsible and knowing if I'm going to open up this awareness, then I need to have a resource for what people do with that. So whether you're a therapist listening with your coach listening, whether you're like, if this kind of work lights you up, but you want to have the tools and the sort of framework to be able to responsibly engage with this population, once Lisa has triggered them with her app, no, when she's raised that awareness with her app, then look in the show notes for this, grab the link, let's and throw you the name of your website out. C-E-T-Freedom.com. So I have to say set freedom, but it's set with a seed. Set freedom. C-E-T-F-C-E-T-F-D.com. Beautiful. Thank you once again for bringing your expertise to the show, giving us so much to think about. And if all of you are like, oh my mind is real and know that you can listen to this episode again and again, listen as much as you need, access the transcript, do what you need to do to take this in and take advantage of the resources that Lisa is offering. Once again, the links for that are in the show notes. As we close today, just want to remind you that we are all here on this globe together for a reason. Lisa is bringing this incredible information to us from England here. I sit in Texas with people ringing my doorbell during the podcast and we're all just together putting our energy out there to do great things and to help people be the best that they can be. So if your tendency is to look at what makes us different, I would just challenge you to shift your lens a little bit to what do we have in common and how can we bring all that together to do the lifting together. So until next week, this is Meg Wrenchler wishing you the very best for your success, another round of applause for Dr. Lisa Turner for joining us and have a great week.