AI on the Ice: Revolutionizing Hockey Analytics with Noah Gans

And there's technology called computer vision, which is AI, video analysis, and like you mentioned, it's being used in manufacturing. I think probably the most well-known use case would be in self-driving cars. So we have been able to build a pipeline, building off the foundational computer vision models that can first identify hockey players on the ice and then track them over the course of a shift over the course of the game so that we are able to output individual player metrics for both teams and for every player. (upbeat music) - Hey guys, welcome back to the Just Be Relentless podcast. Today we got another really exciting episode for you guys. I'm joined by Noah Guns. He is a recent graduate from university. He is an entrepreneur. He's also studying for a potential career in finance. Kind of seems like you're doing it all Noah, but we're willing to kick things off by kind of getting a bit of your background or POV on kind of out, what you've been up to recently and where it's brought you today. - Yeah sure, first of all, thanks for having me on. I guess I'll start off in the university space. I started at Western, studied finance, did my undergrad and upon graduation was really uncertain what to want to do next. And decided to go back to school and do a master's of science at Ivy and dive into both business and technology. And you wrote that program. I still really wasn't sure what was next for me. And that led me into continuing to dive into finance. I decided to get a job at a small search fund using sort of small market private equity M&A. And at the same time, I was studying to do the first level of the CFA. So that was earlier this year, totally focused on finance and exploring that career path when one of my close friends from just growing up approached me the opportunity to join him in a sports tech startup. And there was certainly a number of considerations from me at the time in terms of what I wanted to do next. I was actively looking for new opportunities so it came at a pretty good time. But candidly, the reason that I decided to pursue entrepreneurship was because one of my best friends asked me to and it was pretty much as simple as that. So after that, we go full into this journey. It's been about nine months since then. Building in the sports tech space and yeah, could not be happier the choice that I made. - That's awesome. Honestly, one of the reasons you're kind of story or a profile caught my eye as well is 'cause I think like, I have seen a trend of like kind of young people and new graduates going straight into entrepreneurship to begin with. And I think it's because there's just like so much going on and so many new technologies kind of popping up. We'd love to kind of hear a little bit more about like what you guys do at Stats Yuck. But maybe before that, just to understand a little bit more about you, why do you think your friend reached out to you specifically and asked you to start a company with them? - So the answer to that verse, I think he brought the technical side of things and he was building some really cool technology but really didn't understand from the business side of things how to grow, how to go to market, how to position ourselves in order to be successful. And I think part of it too is there's a deep friendship and trust in each other. When you're going through this journey as a founder, you really need people that you can rely on. And I think on top of the skill set of course, the most important thing was just our relationship and our ability to work together. And I think for when we were deciding what to do, there was a few things that stood out to us. The first is that both of us love sports. I remember growing up, I was born in New York City so I remember growing up and my dad taking me to Yankee Stadium or taking me to Madison Square Garden to watch the Rangers. And from that point on really fell in love with sports. So the opportunity to start a company in that space is super appealing. And on top of that, identifying and validating, there was a major problem specifically in the hockey space. A need for players, for teams to have more clarity and more information when it came to how they're performing and how they're developing. Seeing how other sports were decades ahead when it came to the data they had access to, while hockey was still lacking behind. So our love for sports and then seeing that problem space sort of made a perfect storm for us to jump right into building stats. - Yeah, no, that's awesome. I'd love to learn more about the problem because I mean, growing up in Canada myself to like hockey or different than you growing up in Canada, but hockey was a big part of my life as well. Even a lot of my friends, people are obsessed with hockey, whether it's like fantasy leagues, going to games, playing as a kid. So it always seemed like hockey was all anyone would talk about, which is why I'm a little surprised to hear that, that the data and the analytics behind hockey legs, some of the other major sports. Well, what was the, where what is the problem that that hockey teams or the hockey industry faces and why do they have that problem and not other sports leagues? - There's a number of factors. I think it starts from the gameplay itself. When you look at a sport-led baseball or golf or tennis, a lot of the movements in the plays are isolated. So it's easier to calculate or record stats from that. Where in hockey, everything is flowing. There is less starts and stops. So you might have goals and assists, which are easier to track, but everything else is pretty difficult to track with the naked eye. So that's one of the big reasons why it lagged behind, like the early infrastructure of keeping track of stats. And I think when it came to more advanced technology, not a limiting factor was hockey's a very regional sport. It's big in Canada, obviously, but globally, it's not as big as sports like soccer or basketball or baseball. So I think the investment in building up resources was not the same in hockey, and for companies similar to ours, who are looking at market opportunity, hockey is seen as a smaller, more niche market compared to some like soccer, where you have the entire world playing next for. - Yeah, nope, that totally makes sense. I have noticed a trend too, though, where like a lot of the innovative hockey related companies or hockey brands, a lot of that stuff is based out of Canada or places like Toronto. Have you noticed it to be a little bit easier or a little bit more or a few more resources available to you starting this company out of a place like, I mean, even London, Ontario, at Western, where you've gone to school is a huge hockey hub. Are people more willing to just talk to you and learn about this stuff because you're based out of Ontario? - I think the biggest thing is being super close to tons of different players, teams, coaches, agents. Like the majority of the hockey world is focused as you said in Canada. So, us trying to validate the problem space and try to validate demand and made it infinitely easier that we could just go to local arenas. Like you said in London or in Toronto, talk to friends who had played hockey who were still in the hockey world today and get their perspective on what the problems were and that for us made it way easier to begin to paint a picture of what the entire industry looked like. - Right, and how do you go about having a conversation with someone like that, whether it's like a customer or someone you want to partner with, I'm sure you've had to kind of like start up a lot of conversations from scratch, starting this company over the last nine months. If, like I were a hockey team or someone that would potentially use your product. Like, what's the pitch or the questions that you asked them to see if there's someone you could work with? Yeah, I think that's a great question, first of all. And it's one of the biggest learning curves that we faced as founders. I think partially, both networking, trying to figure out how to build this company and also on the sale side. It's really difficult to ask good questions. I think it's one thing that we struggled with at very beginning. You have these internal questions that you want to solve. Like, for example, you might want to know how to create a marketing strategy. So you go and you find some marketing experts and you ask them, like, how do we create a marketing strategy? And then you get a bunch of answers that don't really solve the problem you're trying to solve. But I think for us, it was trying to find ways to ask questions that dug deeper than service level and try to put the person in a place of comfort. So instead of asking someone, like, try to build a marketing strategy for us, you might ask them, what's the gift you're looking for for Christmas? Well, I understand out to you. So then you get sort of an anecdote or something off the cuff that sticks out to you instead of getting some prepackage service level answer. And I think that works both in sales and in networking. Instead of us trying to sell a team or a player, some advanced technology that they don't understand, we can break it into what is one skill that you want to get better at? Or what is one thing that you think coaches take for granted when they see you? Yeah, I mean, that actually relates pretty well to what I was doing right before this call, as I mentioned, I was doing a sales force, like kind of strategy meeting on like how we're going to like break into these accounts or how we're going to pretty much sell and start conversations with the people that we want. And it's pretty much the same approach is like, you got to understand like whether there's information publicly or or you get it from asking and opening a question, like, what do these people care about? Like beyond the pain point, which it sounds like you've recognized. There's a pain point hockey legs in like data driven analytics behind other sports, like, is that a priority for hockey teams to start right now? It's probably not for everyone. It's probably not for every single team, but there are probably some that are a little more open to new technologies or like innovation that would be willing to dive deeper into this. But then one thing that we actually touch on, I'm wondering if you've kind of either done this approach or seen it happen by coincidence. But when trying to connect to a lot of these decision makers, we're trying to do with do with sales force. The structure that my MVP was telling me is like, you want to, we're going to email or call these prospects and tell them like, this is what we're doing for the larger company, other companies in your industry. Like, this is what how we help people, but you guys are really special. So that's why we want to do something like this for you. Do you send them that email? They're like, okay, this guy's put a little bit of thought into it. But still they're like, no, like, that's not actually what we're interested in. We have other priorities. Like, this is what we're looking to do. But by you kind of sending out that outreach and like putting in a little bit of thought and research, you've now got a response that is actually like information coming from the prospect on like what is actually important to them. So although you tried to like pitch them or give a value prop at the beginning, the intention is never to like, or never to expect that that's going to succeed on the first go, but do enough of it that I can like spark conversations or spark the back and forth. And that's what actually just gets you information on like what the prospect or what the customer actually cares about. And then you can go off and build your solution a little better or you can kind of try and put together a broader map or an understanding, but everything comes from like the back and forth. Have you noticed that in like the people you're speaking to as well? Or how are you trying to understand your customer best right now? Yeah, definitely. I've seen that. And I think we're super lucky, particularly in Canada. We found that the majority of people that we speak to are super supportive, particularly of young founders and young entrepreneurs. So even if like you said, a team is not interested in analytics or data. They still are normally very eager to help with our journey, provide feedback, provide connections. I'd be interested in how Salesforce is able to manage being a big corporation. And it's tough to sort of see past that front and get to that. There's a real person on the other side of this phone. It's easier for us as founders is to just mean my co-founder. There is no big organization front of that. But we've been super lucky so far. I'm sure we'll have to find new ways to approach it once our team grows. And it's not we're not able to be as hands on with each customer like we are now. But maybe you have some insight into that. Yeah, it's it's kind of like that that feedback loop. I was just describing of like doing an outreach in a way that like lets you have an understanding on what's really going on at that company. And then obviously that doesn't work all the time. There's a certain percentage conversion or closed rate. But the idea is that like every year a company like Salesforce does a full reorganization where if you you're on a company for 12 months and the following year, there's another sales rep that takes over that company. So they're always cycling in and out people to like different customer patches. And that gives a new personality, a new approach, a new kind of person that can connect with the people at that company and also understand like what's changing. Like what happened last year? You could sync with the rep that was on your your company last year. And they'll be like, yeah, like we were close to having a deal. But like these three problems existed. And then maybe six months down the line, the problems have already changed. So it's it's a never ending cycle of like trying to grasp more and more of the market. But then I guess to to see how that process has been working with you guys. Like what's some of the customer feedback you've gotten or some of the insights you've heard from the people that you're a little more hands on with. And how are how is that like informing? The decisions you're making about the company or the product. Yeah, we're hearing a lot of different things from different stakeholders. Obviously where you hear from a 12 year old playing it at a low level, it's going to be vastly different from what you hear from a 65 year old coach who is coaching an elite collegiate team. So we hear lots of feedback about people wanting better information about how they're how they're moving. They're they're positioning on the ice. We hear feedback about people wanting more ability to track their performance over time or compare against their peers or compare against their past self. But a fundamental, the rather thing between all the different stakeholders we talk to is they want more clarity. I think a lot of the processes right now are very subjective. So if it's a young kid, they're asking their parents, their mom and their dad how they get or they're talking to their friends or maybe it's a volunteer coach. But they really don't know if they're if they're improving or how much they're improving. And I think being able to provide clarity, whether it's at the lowest level or the highest level, it's important regardless of what the actual ultimate use case will be. Providing that clarity will be the main grabby pull on. So if I were like a 18 year old kid playing like rap hockey and I was convinced like, okay, like I want to get better at the game. I see her as a solution. And I'm like, this is a great way to get more data on what I want. Are you able to to serve us a customer? Like some some kid out there who just wants to kind of that kind of information or clarity that you're talking about, or do you go more for the whole teams or the coaches or what kind of customary are you able to service? And then I guess are you targeting? Ultimately, we would love to be able to service directly to the consumer. And like you said, be able to provide data for just an individual player. As of right now, while we continue to test, it's logistically a lot easier to serve as an entire team. So it comes to finding good footage and all the back end work that we have to do. Eventually, we would love to ensure that everything is automated so that an individual player from anywhere that upload their own footage and get information. But the way we are attacking it right now is by servicing the teams as a whole. And by doing that, we're also able to provide information that can help with comparison between the players and this on the same team, which allows a coach to create more tailored game plan to decide how they want to apply their line combinations on the ice. There's a number of different data points that we can extract that are more useful for a team. right now then they would be for an individual player. Right, that makes sense. If you don't want to ask, what are some examples of the data points that you would deliver to a coach or someone that you work with that help inform those decisions? Right now, we're really focused on trying to aggregate data points and provide things as simple as possible. We found that if we provide a team with a complicated dashboard with hundreds of different metrics and data points, a lot of it gets ignored or the users don't necessarily know what to do with this information. So we're trying to develop waste aggregate metrics so that we can give the user one key insight or two key insights that they can actually act on. So for example, instead of giving someone a loss of even acceleration and distance traveled and faking different movement stats, we can give them one player movement score. So you can, instead of looking at some granular data point that you don't understand, you can see how my score changed from game to game or period to period or over the course of entire season to better understand how you're performing. Interest in it. So I guess a lot of the value you deliver is like reconciling and analyzing that data to just tell them the trend or tell them what actually matters. Because yeah, with anything, the data is kind of useless unless you know how to interpret it or can actually help it make a decision. What goes into something like a movement score? Yeah, you're totally right that it's not easy for someone to be able to parse through data points who's unfamiliar with it. And one of the things about youth hockey and really hockey in general below the professional level is you don't have a team of data analysts that can serve as the middleman between a data vendor and the team itself. So our job goes beyond being just a data vendor. You have to be a data vendor and the analytics layer so that we can provide insights that are in plain English that people aren't actually understanding. So what goes into individual scores, that comes down to us playing around with different combinations. We work with a number of different individuals who their passion is working with data. They love building data models that are useful in different ways. And we can determine which of these data points actually resonate with the end user. And that's the critical part of getting feedback is you can show a player or a coach a few different examples of data we can give them. And we ask them which of these stands out to you, which would you actually use? Nice, okay. So I guess to help understand what the data means, I'd love to learn more about the technology. I guess that drives your guys' product. I remember when we were talking before, you were telling me how it was similar or built up from the technology that manufacturing plants use to detect maybe which produce is the right size or has like embellishments or not. We could say able to get pretty granular and track moving objects. So I guess maybe to set a foundation like how did you guys discover this sort of technology? And then what did you do to specialize it for the hockey industry? I think it all starts out with our core belief because that we wanted to make data accessible. And with that, we wanted to make it as cheap as possible. So from that, it kind of ruled out building any expensive hardware solutions. Like for example, a wearable sensor to put on a player's shoulder pad or on their skate or building out some complicated LiDAR system. We wanted to make this as easy to use as possible and as cheap as possible so that it could be accessible for every level of the game. So that led us to video analytics. And there's technology called computer vision, which is AI, video analysis. And like you mentioned, it's being used in manufacturing. So we have been able to build a pipeline, building off the foundational computer vision models that can first identify hockey players on the ice and then track them over the course of a shift or over the course of the game so that we are able to output individual player metrics for both teams and for every player. So the way that we built this is a lot of both speaking to experts in various industries. What we found is that there are very few people that understand both computer vision and sports. So that's sort of where we come in is trying to find the happy medium, speaking to experts in the sports field and experts in the computer vision field and finding a way to make it all work seamlessly. A lot of iteration is certainly not an easy process to be able to track hockey. It is one of the faster-rooting sports. There's a lot of occlusion due to there being boards and glass and mesh netting. The puck is very, very small but ultimately any technical problem that we faced, we took the mentality that any technical problem is solvable. So we work within business constraints and real-world constraints, like I mentioned, trying to make it cheap and accessible. But any technical issue for us was just seen as another small roadblock. Right. How do you, I guess, technically? Because I was looking up this technology briefly while you were talking. And it turns out, yeah, with computer vision, that's actually what Tesla is used to do there self-driving, which is a different approach from way more Google, like other companies may use LiDAR or may use other forms. But computer vision, correctly, if I'm wrong, is like, you just take the video. We take the raw actual visualizations of what's happening. And then the AI on top of that is able to put things together, identify what's going on. And I believe this system is superior as well. It was kind of technology. Because the AI that's just going on top of the video is something that's getting better and better every single day. I was curious about, I guess, your perspective on different technologies and how they compete with computer vision, because one tool I was playing around with the other day was like, notebook LM, I'm sure you've heard of it from Google. And I was thinking of, like, if you were to upload, say, a video file into there and ask it to pull insights, like, is that different quite a bit from something like computer vision, or what are the things that you guys do with computer vision to tweak it, like, technically? And how does that impact, like, the end product? Because yeah, I guess even if that's something I've used for the podcast the other day when I was making an episode before I'd have to type out the whole description and put in all the notes, now we just throw in the audio file and be like, oh, create me like a 5 cents description of this podcast. And it listens to the whole thing. It's able to transcribe it. And it does quite a bit on that just that base level. So curious if you even see a technology like notebook LM as a competitor, or what the ballgame is that you guys are playing and having it's different. Right. Yeah. So foundationally, computer vision is a way to recognize pixel patterns in image or video. So it's a lot more complicated than using some open source technology and typing in, like, give me hockey stats. We eat a number of different computer vision models stack on top of each other, basically to create a pipeline that understands the various camera positioning that exists or the various rank environments. Obviously in hockey, you have different team colors and different Jersey numbers. There's a number of different factors that you have to find solutions to work with. So certainly there are other technologies that we could be using when we initially were exploring this. Pretty much everyone we talk to said that a LiDAR would be easier for our use case. But the average hockey team doesn't have a LiDAR system in their rank. And they don't want to be carrying one around. But what you'll see, do you go to any rank in Canada and the US as well, is there's multiple parents. Thumb in the games every rank has fixed cameras setups every pretty much every team at all levels has some sort of manual video review process So we are just trying to fit right into that work workflow and Provide an additional tool that coaches and players can use that does not change what they're doing today at all Well, yeah, that's really cool because I remember a lot of my friends when they're playing hockey like There are like pretty widespread platforms out there for like hockey analytics like elite prospects or like none of the platforms that Never have hockey players would have their their information on I feel like a cool idea would be like if you guys have Access to the cameras or the leaves would kind of give you their video anyways like you could create Beyond like going customer to customer just like a public platform or public database of like every hockey player That participates in these leagues that are that are involved and like for free You do all that data analytics and then maybe each individual player like that 18 year old kid who wants to get a little better Would pay like a $5 subscription to access the the premium insights or something But I think it's it's really cool because although platforms like elite prospects have good stats out there having something like You could probably track how fast a player can skate like down to the speed down to their shot speed like down to like The really granular data that like Kids would care about when they're like oh, I can't like to be like lazy today Like I got a before my best on the ice every single day because there's a camera watching me that broadcast my stats the whole world Like I think that is like another level of clarity. That's like Never been done before in any sport. So I guess curious How you guys have thought of like different kind of solutions like have you ever thought of a platform based product like that or Or keep for see kind of any problems with that. Yeah Yeah, certainly I thought about various different ways that this data could be useful or or also Enjoyed by various stakeholders Obviously the players and the teams are interested in data, but Parents siblings friends find this data interesting too um, I think our main focus was That of course there are elite prospects right now that will give you a player's box score statistics And and we're not looking to necessarily replace that But there are a number of data points hundreds If not thousands of data points that you cannot track manually they're Like like you said a player's speed someone in the stands can't track that just with their pen and paper Um, and on top of that a play or someone who's tracking the game by hand hand watch every player at once So that that's where we come in as we want to make it so that you can capture a lot more information Than you currently do without The complicated or time-consuming manual processes that that might require And from there of course the use case of where that data goes is endless right Because there is so much value that can kind of be pulled out of this But I'm curious how much you can kind of offer up front or for free like what does it cost you to To run the business or the analytics or the software like yeah, well What do kind of like the the base costs look like? Our costs are extremely low and that was designed on purpose Um, because we have no hardware Associated are real only our like costs are GPU usage and Data storage Beyond that You just have your normal business expenses, but the The variable increase Like for one extra game for example is is very small which allows us to Serve the widest audience possible And like you said make it extremely accessible for those users who may not want to pay thousands of dollars for Professional level analytics, but might find the interesting to see a couple data points that they haven't seen before Yeah, no, honestly this this conversation is getting me excited about your business as well because it's like when you have such a A unique Product or tool that has like so much information and cost almost nothing to do like I think I would focus a lot on Marketing and like trying to go viral instead of like kind of selling individual customers I could see how old school hockey teams wouldn't coaches would be like oh, we don't want to pay for this product That we don't even know if we have a use yet But like if you had like I don't know like counterpart a few years ago And you would take the camera of his like world juniors game and be like oh like he was this is how much How fast he was and like post a tick talk about it or like Even down to individuals playing rap and be like oh this guy's a little slow this week and like add him on Instagram And then people would kind of like that would blow up and go viral and just create buzz because you're like telling people Things about them or people they know that Is not out there at all so I think there's a lot of like short form content opportunity there I did want you I know where we're coming up on on time shortly to talk a little bit more about like you and kind of like how You approach running a business like this and and the balances that it takes because even based on a conversation like this I feel like there's so much to talk about there's so much to do but there's so little time Um, so how are you doing Noah? How do you how do you balance the priorities of of starting your own business and being this young Yeah, it's certainly a challenge and I think it's one that I'm going a lot better at over the course of eight months being a founder um I think when you first start out there is sort of an instinct to start sprinting um and There's much to eat possibly can I'll take over take on every project that you can think of um And not really have much structure But one of the benefits of having a great network and also a great community around you um is you can talk to founders and hear from them how they were able to manage um the really complicated journey of being a first-time founder and learning from them getting to um implement certain structures so that Me and my co-founder are are managing our time better and are able to tackle all the projects we want to tackle Without sort of burning out or without wasting time you're totally right that there's a million hats to wear um one day or you're worried about um technology and and the next sits Like you said viral marketing and the next it's consumers and the next on one of podcasts like this so For me, it's really trying to Say yes to as much as possible well also Carping out Time to still focus on myself Um and make sure that i'm not burning out um because We have a long road ahead of us We know we've accomplished a lot in eight months, but um we're still at the very very beginning of our journey That's awesome You mentioned talking a lot of founders and kind of learning from other people have been down this path like yourself What some of the best advice you've gotten from other people Who have been through this before? I've gone a ton of incredible advice and um There's i guess two programs i want to highlight is i'm i'm part of Two incubator programs that have been super instrumental for for us the first being um the innovation boost zone at tm u Um just getting in in that environment working seeing other other founders um i think a lot of the advice is is very personal and individual It's hearing about how founders have responded to certain challenges or how they're working through um problems they face like on that day to day um So the innovation boost zone at tm u and also high tech Which is partnered with york university Being part of those incubator programs and part of those without your communities You really just get um great support from people that have worked in all types of industries various ages various um skill sets Whenever question a problem that you might be facing Someone has a solution for you or someone has an idea for you and even if that doesn't necessarily solve all your problems It might of course you think in a different way Or provide some reassurance that someone out there has been through what you're currently going through And i think as a founder a lot of it can be to be lonely and you you think that you're sort of in it all by yourself Or just with your co-founder But being in community is like those and seeing that there's other people that are in the same spot as you Which provides that reassurance and that A extra push of motivation to keep you moving forward And i love that culture is like It seems like mentorship is so heavily encouraged in entrepreneurship Like everybody knows like you're doing one of the type you pick one of the toughest paths out there That like every founder who's made it or even hasn't made it and learned from their failures Is like they make such a big effort to Teach the next generation and that's part of what like gets me super excited about doing this podcast is because like whether You have that mindset now where you you have that from other people who have taught you, like everyone's always so open to giving advice and talking with their story and sharing things like that. And it's something that's like, I guess I wouldn't even say take it for granted, but it's something that's like, something you have to be really intentional about if you're not an entrepreneurship. A lot of people from IV or business schools or anyone really starting a career like, most people know the mentorship is like, almost one of the most important thing to like progressing your career, whether you're in sales or consulting or banking, like you need a mentor, but it's sometimes a challenge to get really experienced people like bought into your success and your journey and like takes a lot of time to build relationships and hear the best advice from them. But I love that culture and entrepreneurship, how it's like, whether you're in those incubators or not, I'm sure there's people you could reach out to that you've never met before and would be more than happy to help you out. So I think that's definitely a great resource. - Yeah, we've been so unfortunate that a lot of people have provided great support for us along the way. There's certainly been the tractors as well, but for the most part, I think the Toronto that under sort of community is a bit underrated in its ability to be supportive for founders. - Yeah, that's awesome. And before we wrap things up, I had one last question for you just 'cause I know I've kind of cultured a time that's like pretty early in the journey of Statsjuk and who knows what's gonna happen after this. But I love to kind of get a sense of like from the things that you're working on or the goals that you have for the business, like what's the like top priority for you right now in a business? 'Cause as we talked about, there's a million things to do, there's a million directions that you're being pulled in. What is like your number one priority look like? Like when you're setting up where to spend your time, like what would what moves the needle for you in the business at this stage of the company? - I think the biggest thing that's online right now, as we sort of go towards the end of the year, is that we've done a really good job this year of focusing on the product. And I think as an early startup, it's really easy to get caught up focusing all your energy on product because of that product you have nothing. But as we move into the new year, I think my main focus is trying to move beyond that into other areas and putting more time into areas like customer success, like marketing areas that can be brushed aside when you're so focused on product. As we move into the new year, I'd love to be able to spend more energy on those things. - That's awesome. I'm sure the time will fly faster than you can even see it going. But thanks again for taking the time to talk to me today Noah. Loved hearing about your business, what you guys are up to, how the technology's moving. Excited to maybe have a follow up conversation down the line. I'm sure the companies moving at such a fast pace, there's always new things going on. But yeah, appreciate you taking the time and stay relentless, man. - Yeah, definitely thanks for having me. It's been great to try it and also reflect a bit on the first nine months of the journey. Definitely excited to see you with the next nine months having a story. (upbeat music)