AI, Admin & The Agency Shake-Up with Alto CEO Ric Dawson

(upbeat music) Today I'm very lucky to be talking to a very busy gentleman, Rick Dawson, the CEO of the Alto Software Group. He's here to tell us all about how our home are helping agents to grow their businesses and some exciting things they're coming up. Rick, thank you so much for coming on to chat to us today. - Yeah, no, thank you for inviting me, Rachel Adden, a whole judgment on whether you're lucky or not and to David Adden. But that very happy to be here. Yeah, what did you say? What was the thanks for having me anyway? - Everybody's obviously heard of Alto, but tell us about you joining Alto and your journey so far. - Yeah, sure. I suppose I've always been in property in somewhere or another throughout my career and over the last sort of 10 years, very much on the intersection between property and technology. And that's where I thrive. That's what I love. I think it's challenging and rewarding as a sector. As I'm sure everyone will attest to and there's plenty of problems. It's a bit like whack-a-mole and that sort of excites me. But a little bit on my background is I actually studied architecture originally. - Yeah, from the Midlands, sort of a builder and a school teacher went to university, studied architecture, did three or four years working in the post-graduation, working in the biggest design firm in the world, some amazing project, Shanghai Tower, GCHQ, the Ferrari store, a whole bunch of high profile, really exciting stuff. - Good job as me in Sweden, you're not my son, where's that would be the whole podcast, or the Ferrari, the Ferrari build. - Yeah, well that's also fine. I know we'll come back and do that one and bring him along as well. - And yeah, after sort of three or four years of doing that, I was approached by a house builder that was moving into the UK market based in China and they offered me a role to sort of look after user experience across the consumer journey, which was, how should we design our houses, what technology should be implemented, what are the touch points, how do we engage with the agents, the mortgage brokers, what does that journey look like, clearly a role that at 25 I think I was dramatically underqualified for, didn't stop me as saying yes anyway. And through that, I sort of got to grips with a lot of the problems that were in the buying journey around buying your house, buying and selling homes. Obviously there's lots of stakeholders involved, it's very manual, it's very analog, there's lots of mistakes, it takes a long time, time to exchange is really low. And so I hit the start up circuit in London, bootstrapped a business that was called Yorkies, got it up to 35 people and a couple of million in revenue, and then Zouplabort it in 2021. And I spent three years as part of that group, principally around embedding technology into the wider business. And yeah, clearly there was some golden handcuffs to that. I was sort of come into the end of my three years and fully intended on going on and doing the next thing and seeing what the world held for me. But at that point, the business decided that they wanted to separate out the businesses from underneath the house full umbrella. And they asked me to run ASG, with Alto Software Group, I was separated out from the Zouplab Group, like I say, I'm the year into doing that and really enjoying it, loving it. It's been a year since I sold my agency and we used Alto. And now obviously going into different clients that I say, I feel like you've done lots with the platform in that year as well. Sorry, very early on in the podcast, I've been to diving to your first year, but I feel like you've done lots from what I can see in the platform in that year. Does it feel like that's for you too? Definitely, Rachel. And I suppose the most important thing is commentary like you just added, you know, it's so important that we get stereo sound back from the industry and users that actually feel it because quite often you can get wooed by a lot of internal efficiencies that ultimately don't show up for guests or walls. So the context, Alto was obviously part of a larger group alongside Zouplab. And when you sit in next to one of the biggest property portals in the UK, you're just not always going to be the priority. And then when the carve out happened and I took over, the first thing that we did was build a new management team with deep software experience, you know, people who actually understood what it takes to build and run a really great product business. So that was the first thing to do. But to your point, our goal was sort of clear, it was reestablish Alto as the category leader. And we knew that that meant investing beyond just the product. Yes, the product needed work. And hopefully you can feel that day to day. But so did every other touch point that a customer actually feels day to day, things like onboarding, support, customer success, marketing, how we speak to make sure our language is right. Those are the things that really build or destroy trust. Yeah. And honestly, they've been under invested. We went after all of it at once. Are we going to say so when you went in, was there somewhere that you thought, right, this is the bit that we're going to start with, this is the bit that I want to make the mark on first, or was it a case of, nah, let's just, let's just see all of it all in one go. Yeah, well, the first thing was get the leadership team together and sit in a dark room and then figure it out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, we needed some vitamin D after that. It was really, you know, let's understand the asset that we got because it's complicated. You know, there are 18 different functions, some of which are doing well, some of which are not, you know, some of which it's low hanging through. But the first thing was, let's rebuild the strategy. Yeah. And our strategy was all about going back to core. So let's make sure that we're showing up every day through creating efficiency within our product, making sure that our product is extensible and it integrates into all of the other systems that are in your stack. And let's make sure that we, as a business, are easy to deal with. And that talks about the sort of, what we call non-functional parts of our business, which are everything outside of the product. And so we built a strategy on those three pillars, efficiency, extensibility, and ease. And then we got to work in rolling that out. And yeah. So in 2025 was, is the fastest growing CRM provider in the market. And we had a record breaking year for new business last year. And like I say, the most important thing is our customer sentiment scores and our public reviews shifted significantly over the past 12 months. Yeah, because ultimately, I guess you can have the best product in the world. But if that's not translated into how it works in agency for agents, and they're enjoying news in here, I mean, nothing, you haven't got that personable side behind it as well. Yeah, exactly. And one of the things that we did was break down the product. Actually, what are the pockets of functionality that agents are employing us to do for them day to day? And we rolled out a methodology called Jobs of Work. And there are 47 of them in Alto. And we measured every single one by how long does an agent spend doing that task? How many clicks does it take for them to complete? Which users, types of profiles of users are using them and how frequently? Because once you've got that, then you can start to invest and point your product function and your partnership model on improving those efficiencies on those jobs of work. Otherwise, it's just a big bundle of functionality. So yeah, part of the strategy. But yeah. Well, I couldn't have you on without talking about AI. AI. AI in agency. I feel like it's definitely a hype word. And I've been an agent a long-- well, effectively, I'm not an agent anymore. But that's another story that I'd best my own grief to deal with. I effectively was an agent from 16. And I am not in any way shape or form tech savvy. And I feel like with the AI coming in, there's a lot of agents that just think, oh god, no. If something else to learn is something else to do, how do you even navigate that? Because I think there's just so much confusion around it. How does Alto navigate that? Use it in a good way. but also in a way that agents can get to virtual. as well. Yeah, it's definitely on everyone's lips at the moment. And I suppose a couple of points in that question Rachel, the first part is what are we seeing around AI in a state agency more broadly? And yeah, there's a lot of noise. And most of it at this stage is quite surface level, if we're totally honest. It's spoken about like a chatbot on your website or an auto email response or writing a property description. That's not really an AI strategy. That's a lot of what people call AI right now, but you can build that in an afternoon is pretty commoditised. When we think about what where real AI value sits, we look at it and we think it moves through three stages. There's insight, which is basically just surfacing the data that you already have. There's automation, which is then removing tasks. And then there's full execution. And that's sort of doing the work end to end. And most of the industry at this stage is stuck at stage one. A view is that real value comes from working with the data already in your CRN and using it to do the work in the background, not bolting on a separate tool. And look, there are some risks actually in how this evolves. Things to consider that as a CRN provider consider ourselves or we're evolving to become this sort of concierge of trust and security around AI. Because there's a lot of noise on it. And there's a lot of risks in things like algorithmic filtering. You can block genuine buyers from ever seeing a property if you allow data to drive decisions without any human checks in it. And so AI has got a support agent judgment. It's not there to replace it. So that's the sort of view on AI in this state agency. Guess somebody could effectively inquire and on multiple properties and actually never actually get to see a property that that excused them or that they're actually interested in because of the algorithm. I think a lot of agents don't realize that. Don't see that from that point. So how do you as a CRN platform, how do you sort of protect the agent from those things that maybe aren't so good for the business and good for growing and encourage them and promote the things that are good for the things for the business. Yeah, and that is exactly the question. And that's what we're wrestling with at the moment. And everyone is quite, quite frankly. But our strategy is, for a long time, the value of a CRM was that it held all of your information. Right? Yeah, it was where you stored things, where you stored all your data, all your records, etc. But that's not enough. Any more actually agents don't need, in our opinion, a smarter place to store records. They need a system that actually helps them get things done. And that's the shift that we're making. You know, Alta is used by more than a third of all UK estate agents. That's right. You've done. And so, you know, there's a responsibility here as well to curate these AI agents in a way that is safe and secure. But having that penetration of the market, that means that we sit on an enormous amount of data about agent and how agents actually work. You know, every transaction, every touchpoint, every part of the process. And we're using that to build AI that works in the background of your day. And it's all about handling the tasks that you shouldn't have to think about so that an agent can focus on the work that actually wins business. And the best example I can give, you know, that they're like say 47 jobs of work. But one AI implementation of those would be around sales progression, chasing a solicitor. The old model is the agent remembers to chase or doesn't. You know, then they send a link from from their own inbox. You know, maybe they log it in Alta after. Maybe they don't. Alta may or may not have an idea that it's happened. You know, it can't measure it and it can't improve it off the back of that process. But in the new model, the AI agent chases through Alta. There's no human needed. The response is then logged automatically. Alta then aff escalates is that if a human is needed and it measures exactly how long it took. And so Alta then isn't just recording the work. It's actually doing the work. Yeah. And that's and that's that, you know, here's what I sort of genuinely believe is the agents that embrace that sort of automation will get stronger, not more dependent on technology actually. And because Alta is always in the middle, making sure that the right things happen at the right time with a human in the loop when it matters, the AI does the repetitive work and the agent makes the decisions that then count. And that allows them to focus on the things that really matter. That's how that's how we see it evolving. And our strategy, which is called Alta Intelligence, is about deploying agents through partners, but also our own natively developed agent agents that automate the administrative parts of those jobs of work to create efficiencies for for Apple customers. And I guess that works the same for property management as well. So now one of the reasons we chose Alta when we was looking at a lot of different software's, a lot of software's work really well for sales, but not so well for lettings or work really well for lettings and not so well for sales. And when we started our business, me and my business partner were bringing the sales and lettings element together. That was the whole point of our business was we were joining forces to do that. From that side of things, the property management element as well is done along the similar basis, because then also that's a bugbed. Lots of agencies, the property management side and getting that automated and having to have 15 tabs open because you've got one software doing this and one software doing that and one software doing this and one software doing that. Obviously as much as you can have all in one place, the easier it makes people's lives. Exactly. And those are like perfect examples of things where agentech agents can create efficiencies, renewing certificates, you've got to do your gas certificates, your EICRs, your EPCs. Well, we know when they're due for renewal, we know who your preferred suppliers are, we know how to send works orders out and we know that we've got to coordinate with the landlord and the tenant to get that all booked in. That is like a linear process that we can go, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. However, if something happens where that preferred supplier isn't available, we can flag up within Alto. You Rachel Ollington as the user of Alto now needs to intervene because, we've hit a stumbling block. The agent over time, if every time it hits that stumbling block, you constantly intervene with the same action, it will learn. Right. I know now I've hit that stumbling block. This is the action to go and do next. And so property management is perfect for this. I had Lauren Harris set a property recrease on the podcast last week and she was talking about, obviously, the staff in element and how many properties of property manager actually can manage, is that it's like the million dollar question in the industry. And I guess it's these sorts of things that are going to make a property manager's life easy. So either they can manage more or they can give their customers a different level of service because those jobs that are more linear that are taking their time to do, we'll be able to do it for them. Exactly that. And we've been building for, because then the follow on question is what do you do with all this time? I suppose the cold-hard reality is you as a business owner can, you know, deploy your strategy however you like, you know, if it's less heads, it's less heads. But what we actually see is that to your point, which is, you know, you expanded your business and you went into sales. And, you know, it's those opportunities that these efficiencies typically open up is what we see, which, you know, if you need a person for every 50 properties, but all of a sudden it's 250 properties. Well, those four people that you've then freed up, can they go and be deployed in the sales motion? Can you open a land and new homes team? Can you open a consultancy arm? And that's typically how we want to fuel growth as your CRM provider. And that's typically what we see, businesses that are growing through the efficiencies that we create. They're not, you know, reducing headcount. They are deploying those resources in a more efficient way to grow their business. That is ultimately what every agent wants. I think when they see and hear AI, they panic and get have a bit of a hot sweat come over and what they're going to do, how they're going to learn this. But, like, say, ultimately it's using it to your advantage, so that it helps your business to grow. Exactly that. Yeah, that's helpful. I know it's something that you're interested in and you talk about built to rent. Yeah, it's obviously my starting point into technology in this industry was around new homes and then moved across into agency. Back to the point of us as a business, which is to be an operating system at a CRM to help you grow your business. We feel it imperative to flag trends in the market where we think that structural shifts are happening that is making it more difficult for agents to operate. I suppose the structural shift that's happening in built to rent is that developers, you know, they're not just supplying agents anymore. They're actually competing with them. And, you know, they've built their own sales and letting's operations upstream and that trend is gathering speed and once stock is absorbed into built to rent or sold directly, it doesn't tend to come back to the open market and that is a bit of a permanent shift and not just a dip. How big of a bet do you think it is to the high street model in everyday terms, I guess, for the average aid and? Yeah, well, I suppose volume-led growth gets much harder when there are just fewer available instructions and, you know, some key points that we keep pointing to is that fewer than two in ten new builds are reaching the open market nationally because they are absorbed by developers, investors or built to rent before agents can have a list of them. And in the London, that's even worse. You know, you're actually less than one in ten new homes reach the open market. That's the lowest rate in the UK. Do you think agents are aware of this? Obviously, I see agencies, definitely not something that I think opposed to AI that is on everybody's radar. I definitely think this is not something that the people are thinking about and obviously you you guys speak to agents all the time and they think it's something they're sort of aware of or it's even sort of in their forethought. No, it is the answer and it should be because clearly, you know, I mean, government targets are one thing and whether we can actually hit them. But, you know, if there's a million homes sold every year, 200,000 of them are new homes and if the ambition of the government's continued back-to-back governments is to grow that number, then it becomes a structural problem that compounds for agents. What I will say is the agencies that will win on this are going to be built around expertise and really tight operations, not just whoever has the most stock. And, you know, we'd encourage agents to be thinking more readily about how they take their offering into the new build market and approach more of the developers because actually agents have the fundamentals of buying and selling much more readily operationalized than the housebuilders do. And if they can make the mechanics and the commercials work, actually, housebuilders are still there for the taking. And back to this point around creating efficiencies in your general day-to-day through using alter and using automations. Go and build a new homes arm and go and win parts of this business from the builders. And, you know, let's not let because this structural shift starts at the big housebuilders, there's an ease, the persimmons, the bellways, the red rows, the barret, etc. But then it filters down into the SME, which is principal supplier. But those are also the ones that aren't yet, they haven't yet built the muscles to be able to do this, but they will do. And my sort of calling card is let's not ignore that as a way to win new business for a state agent. Let's go and build the muscles and go and win that part of the market back. It's definitely something that I think will sneak up on people quickly while they are trying to keep up with everything else going on in the market. We're in Alto. What are you looking to do next? The next step for our Toe to be able to give agents that support? Great, great question. So, and again, it comes back to our AI strategy as well, which we sort of touched on. Our job in the next, in the second half of the year, is we want to open up Alto for automation. And what we're going to be building within the Alto interface is a control panel. And we're going to be, we're starting with six jobs of work, one of which is around lead qualification, one of which is around certificate and property management, ones around letting's on boarding, but what we want to enable our customers to be able to do is to configure those and scale them across their estate of properties in a really safe and secure and tailored way. So, we're calling it the control panel, but what you'll have is a control panel in Alto that allows you to configure the six automations that we're building. And what we want to be able to show is that meaningfully improves your efficiency day to day. And they've been chosen because they are some of the highest correct counts, highest time spent on task, highest pain point jobs of work. The idea there is that we can quantify the amount of time that we give you back in pounds and pens, but also in minutes and hours that'll open up the aperture to enable estate agents to grow more scalably and focus on some of these structural shifts that they need to deal with. Is there anything that agents can focus on first to work with you to make sure that they're getting the most out of a platform as well? Because obviously it isn't just one sided, it is the agents need to be put in the effort, and then I go to so many agents that you've got so many softwares, not just CRMs, all different forms of software that they're paying out for each month and actually they're not getting the benefit of because they're not using them to do what they are intended to do. In fact, they could probably cut down half of the softwares that they have because they each do, they overlap in the task that they're doing for them. So, we sort of sit down and go, okay, actually you've got three softwares there, we're all doing some form of referencing or you've got three softwares there, we're in platform this or that, let's look at where you can scale back. So, what can agents do to make sure that they're getting the most out of the platform as well? Yeah, well first and foremost, we run all of these things through beaters, as well as our own internal guard rails again, which is really important now, I'll say it again, but around security and scalability, and you'll have seen this from messing around with ChatGbT or Claude or whatever, they hallucinate sometimes, right? They give you weird answers, you know, how have you come up with that? We have a really robust testing framework that we've developed to make sure that we are in the 99.9 percentile of reducing any hallucinations to make sure that, like I say, it's safe and scalable, but back to the point around what agents can do, well, we have a select group of agents, so anyone listening to this podcast that's already in one of the open beaters on one of those things, and the aim of the game of those beaters is to get all of the edge cases, you know, what are all the oddities in the process is that you guys are wrestling with day to day that we need these automations to cater for, but it is going to be a journey, but ultimately, all of this stuff, Rachel, is about efficiency for agents. If at any point it's just a widget, or it's just a nice to have, well, then we'll just stop because that's not the aim of the game. It's got to be clear, quantifiable ROI efficiency that you can take to the bank, and this is a really good opportunity, actually, for me to do a bit of a natural plug for an RAI forum. You're going to be there, which is brilliant, but we're bringing a lot of this to life at RAI forum on the 29th of April, and that is a chance to get under the hood of alto intelligence, you know, here from those beta agencies that are already seeing those results and that have been through the development of it, and spend the day basically with people facing the same challenges that we're trying to support. And so, yeah, look, if you're serious about operating better this year and you're really interested in automation and how that can help you, it's worth being in the room. Yeah, definitely, I say I'm definitely looking forward to it because they sound good, but actually to be able to see and say be there and look at actually what this means practically, then I think it makes a massive difference, doesn't it? Really does. The other thing agents tend to, when I go out to agents, the things that they generally want me to help with is obviously growing their agency to make sure that obviously they're doing as much as they can in terms of marketing and their back end to make sure that they're efficient and growing, but also look at their financials as well, like the same part of them. We look and we say, "Actually, we're paying out for lots of different software to do the same thing. We can also cut your costs here." That's another thing that they're savvy about. One of the things I think a a good CRM, good prop tech, which I know obviously prop tech is bounded about for a lot of things nowadays, but when people are sort of, "I want to grow, but I can't afford to do these, I can't afford to do that." It's easy to miss the point of actually what a good tech, although it costs you, will also save you as well. I know you've spoken a lot about the admin creep and sort of the invisible payroll finances that it saves you, not just what it costs you. How sort of bigger problem is that? How often do you see that in you working with agencies? Yeah, a lot, and it's probably the one of the main drivers as to why Bob Piller in developing improvements is around efficiency because exactly as you say, admin is the biggest invisible cost in most agencies. It's not necessarily directly on your P&L, but it's everywhere. You pay in a negotiate 40K, and a significant chunk of their time is compliant, subbed-mean, chasing paperwork, updating systems, and the reality is with regulation, all of that stuff going on constantly, on top, agents are feeling busier than ever, but not necessarily more profitable, because utilization, not headcount, is the real problem, and to our point, the answer isn't hiring more staff. It's removing the admin that your staff are currently doing so that the team that you have can generate more revenue for you. All of this stuff rats together as far as we're concerned. Yeah, and I guess that's why agents are, they feel busier, but actually they're not growing anymore, then when they're looking at their bottom line, it actually doesn't relate back to how busy they are and the hours they're spending. I know Dictionary only this week, I was speaking to a client, and we was looking at actually their cost for that landlord. It was particularly demanding landlord. They knocked them down on fee. There was actually how much are you making from that landlord, is it where? They're like, oh yeah, because we still get those, but you haven't counted any of your admin time, your viewing time. How much your member of staff, how many hours, you've not added the hours up that they're spending them. In fact, at that, you're just the cost of the refit in the cost of this, the cost of the board. You've done the physical things, but not actually the work that goes into it on how much per hour that's costing you as well for that landlord. When they had it that I was like, yeah, we're barely regulating on that landlord, because we spend so much time on them that they are really demanding and they have really squeezed some price, and there's just no margin in that. Yeah, that's actually that's a brilliant idea for our reporting suite. We've spent a lot of time rolling out our new AI driven reporting suite that has like natural language search in it, so you can just type out your query and it'll generate your results, but building out a cost to serve model for tenants would be great, right? Yeah, all of this stuff is sewn together. We talk about efficiencies and your point, but the tagline could just as easily be remove the admin free the team. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, it's fascinating where it's shared. It's really exciting loads of opportunity in it. I know, and this is the thing at the moment. You speak into a lot of agents and I'm keen to what you think, but there's a lot of nervousness, a lot of nervousness around AI, a lot of nervousness around systems, compliance, etc. But take off a step back and we look at if we can properly harness this automation, and we can make sure that we're taking advantage of some of the structural shifts. There's so much opportunity out there, more so than there's ever been as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, and I think agents get themselves, obviously I see more letting agents, but definitely the letting agents seem to get themselves into a bit of a vicious cycle. So because their systems and things aren't necessarily making them do what they should be, they're really busy, but that's their bottom line isn't showing that. So then they're dropping their fees and taking any landlord accepting anything, but because they take that landlord that's dropped them on their fees and is really demanded, it's then the pressure on their time and their bottom line isn't growing because it's actually not cost effective to have that land. And then they're back in that same site, going round and round. There's so, so many amazing agents that really want to grow, really want to give a good service, really want to help be part of their community and inspire people in that community as well. And they just can't do it because they're stuck in that cycle. Yeah, yeah. And it's the same way as running any sort of business, right? You get into the habit of doing things a certain way and back to our point around a person looking after an ex-number of properties. You don't sometimes have the headspace to think, well, let me think about how do I improve processes to make that number 100 rather than 50. It's just hardwired into, right, there's 50, so if I need another 50, it's another person. But it's really difficult because you're running businesses, it's not easy. I've done it. I've built, I've built startups and and bigger businesses. It's you're constantly wrestling with these challenges. And our job as a system provider is to create that headspace for you and to create those efficiencies so that you can deploy them in a more profitable way. Yeah, that's what so many agents need. Giving you feedback, I think for me, my, my favourite bit about Alto because I am a complete tech foe. I put me on a sofa in front of a landlord or a vendor. I'm absolutely fine. Put me in front of a computer and they're not where my skillset lies. But without Alto, the best function for me was your videos and your explanations on how to do things and your, your help function. I could click on and go, right, how do I do that again? And I could click on there and I could go through and it would tell me step by step exactly how to do it. And we were very, very, me and my business partner, people were very process driven. We had a process for everything. But when it come to anything that we had to an Alto, it was quite easy to go. He's the link to the Alto, Alto, but I'm not on how to do it. Click on that and it will show you. So yeah, that, that was massively important for me and so user friendly now working with other other agents where you've developed the software and they'll say, oh, do you know, use to where without Alto, do you know how to do this? So they didn't have that function, but I'm pretty sure if you click help, it will have a little how to guide there. And it does. And that's perfect. That obviously is something that you're, you're going to keep up with and keep developing that side of things as well. Yeah, I would say so. You know, there's again, anyway, I'm annoying myself, you know, keep, but I keep going back to it to the AI. Gonna be one of those people ring, we're gonna go, oh, he was one of those people. Just get going back to my eye. So annoying and it like mid conversation, whacking out chat, G, B, T, tell. Yeah. We are of course going to continue with the videos. And actually, you know, one thing that AI does do is allow you to update scripts, voiceovers, videos, animations much more readily. And you know, as you deploy AI in your engineering function, you start to ship a lot more stuff. And so you need to be able to scale that. What we are also testing in the in the help center is just natural language support. So you can just describe the problem and that it'll either, depending on how you want to respond, it'll give you a written feedback. And so you do this, this, this, this, and this. And then you can query that is that didn't actually work. But, you know, okay, understand. So let me, let me tell you this or it'll show you a video or we're also I'm going to be trialing later on this year where you put that question in and then someone calls you and talks you through the very specific problem that you've described. So would that be an AI pass or is that a real pet? No, no, we would we would hope that the AI text and the AI video would solve it. But if it didn't, then you need the human brain and would deploy a human brain in the future. Because you can never tell now, can you? Lots of people use AI on the phone end as well. And you think, am I talking to a real person? Am I talking to AI? Yeah, I've seen loads of memes and stuff of people responding to support chats when they call you, you know, because obviously they're trained in a very specific subject. But if you, if you respond to by saying, "Tell me how to bake a Victoria sponge." It'll say, "Oh, great question!" and then start explaining to you. That's the way to identify an AIA. I'll have to test that one next time. So, when I think, "Oh, is this AI or not?" I like to ask it about the bake in the cake. It's a real person. That might be. Maybe like. What? Yeah. At least you qualified it at that point. Well, thank you so much for coming on, Stowec. Obviously, I'm a big advocate of alto. We use it within our business. When we came to sell our business, they were really instrumental in having everything where it should be. Our buyers could come and say, "We want to take a sample of five properties to make sure that all your compliance is up today." Obviously, alto made it so easy. Just go there you go. Go and check on our log. Yeah. Everything's there. Perfect. So yeah, it really helped us not just scaling the business, but also when we come to sell it as well, really helped us being the best position we could be for selling the business as well. Well, that is. Well, firstly, thank you and high praise indeed. That is what we do at Thorso. I love anything but like that, Rachel, so we really appreciate it. I wouldn't say if it wasn't true. Not just because you're on the podcast. We did use alto and that was true. It did help us grow and then to sell as well. If anybody is interested, obviously, in setting up demos or 29th of April, obviously, to come and have a lip AI. If anybody is listening that's interested. Either through our social channels or altosoftware.co.uk is the best place for, you know, submit a demo request or get any information on the product, platform features, functions, all of that. Good stuff. Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on today and giving up your time. So I know you're a very busy man, so we definitely appreciate it and I'm sure you'll be inundated with the demo requests. I hope people come and coming to have a try. It's a pleasure. Thanks.