After Studying Gen Z: Bret Weinstein Learned Something Unexpected

Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. Right. What you bring to the table and what I bring to the table, and if we put them together, we have, you know, a hole that's greater than the sum of the parts. That is lightning in a bottle, right? Class movement, the ability to flip on a dime generationally. Right. And here's the thing. If you build that structure, you say, ignore, you know, I'm not telling you that pretend we're all alike, that our backgrounds aren't interesting. Maybe they are. Maybe it has interesting things to do with, you know, you can taste various cuisines and we can mix them together and do fusion. But at some level, who you are doesn't count. It doesn't get you a pass. It doesn't, you know, cause you to be held back in any particular way. You're just, you have access to the market and you bring your. Goods, uh, there, and you try to make wealth that makes us all richer. Right. And that is the reason that in the aftermath of the founding of the United States, the idea was just contagious. People who saw how well it worked, either wanted to come here and be part of it, or they wanted to do it at home because it's just a better way of living. And my concern is it is a system that lends itself. Towards the peaceful resolution of conflicts because war is expensive, but we are now facing something that wants us at war. I think the campaign in Iran is as clear a case as we've seen the war in Iraq was pretty obvious if you knew where to stand, but in this case, who exactly was clamoring for a war with Iran? This was not done for the American people. All right. The rationalization that we were initially given that this was to deny Iran a nuclear weapon fell apart within months. So the point is our system is an alternative to the battlefield, to displacing each other, one lineage against another, which is the nature of human history until modern times. That view of the West where every person is entitled to human dignity, where we create wealth together and ignore our populations of origin is the only game in town. If you want humanity to be here 300 years from now, this is the way it has to be. We have to stop trying to displace each other from this planet because our weapons are too powerful and we're too interconnected. So I would say we have to fix the corruption. And we have to figure out how to get off this treadmill where we're constantly fighting the next war for reasons that none of us can explain to each other. Before I get to the war part, because that's a really important thing and I don't want to lose that in here, could you see why, especially in 2026, across the population, people are even more cynical than ever about the ability to uproot corruption when you have now seen the government release half of the Epstein files? they were legally required to release. They've held back the other half illegally without any consequences. And none of the people who clearly at the very least should be investigated and under American rights, I guess, presumed innocent before proving guilty. They're not even being charged. Many of them are not even being questioned or investigated. People are shoving under the rug. And many of these people happen to be the same people that are a part of an elite class that have paid off and pillaged our society into the current state that it is. Could you see why people are very cynical about something like this getting fixed when we're having that moment right now and nothing's changing? A hundred percent. And I hope that people can hear me, especially Gen Z, which I know I'm like an unlikely person to be listened to by Gen Z, but I think they should listen up because I'm trying to help them not die in a desert somewhere. You got the Gen Z haircut. You had good flow. Good Gen Z flow. They're going to like that. Excellent. It's a compliment. Appreciate that. So yes, look, let's just start with what I've learned. Okay. I backed President Trump for reelection. One of the reasons that I backed President Trump for reelection, A, I don't think I had a choice. I think the alternative was apocalyptic. It was basically a finger in the eye of the Constitution. Right. Kamala Harris was basically being installed by a party. It was a vote for party rule. She was an empty suit. That was an attack on the rule of law. Her administration, by the way, was literally trying to censor you and other people like they came directly after you. A hundred percent. So I don't think we had any choice but to vote against that. And I would vote for President Trump again. But my rationale, not a rationalization, my rationale at the time was that in part, President Trump was at least a real guy, which means he can be hauled in front of Congress and forced to answer questions. He can be impeached. He's a real human being to inhabit the office. He's qualified to do it. And more importantly, or equally importantly, no new wars. I specifically voted for no new wars. And what was top of mind for me in voting against new wars? Iran. Yeah. Because I knew the neocons have wanted war with Iran. Since 9-11 or before then, we became aware of it in the aftermath of 9-11. But the point is, it was the last one on the list. And so I knew that there was a force pushing us towards this war. And I knew that it saw the window, the opportunity closing. And I voted for the guy who said he wasn't going to do it. And next thing you know, it's happened. And many other things that I thought I had, you know, yes, he's closed the border. On the other hand, I was involved in bringing people's awareness to the huge number of illegals who crossed our southern border and were transported into the interior by the Biden administration. He was supposed to remove those people. They're not supposed to be here. That's not an anti-immigration stance. Right. Right. But he was supposed to remove them. And that has not happened. And in fact, inside of the last couple of weeks, we've been told that their plan is to remove the worst of the worst. Does that mean that they're going to remove the worst of the worst? And I'm supposed to be happy about it? I mean, look, what the hell are they telling us? Why did they surrender on this? So I am very disappointed in this presidency. And I feel betrayed over it, having advocated for the president, though I still think we had no choice. But nonetheless, the point is, what lesson did I get? And what lesson did all sorts of people who, like me, were not Republicans, but joined forces in a coalition to change the world? To change things once and for all, to drain the swamp. What did we learn? Well, you're not going to solve this problem by working through the duopoly. The duopoly, the uniparty, that thing is owned one end to the other, and there's no solution inside of it. Now, I do think that there's something that we can do. And I'll get to that in a second. But my point is, I think, among other things, you've asked, who is doing this to us? I don't know. Some mafia something, some organized crime, the name of which we don't know. Could be more than one, too, right? It probably is. It almost certainly has to be. And I'm sure they partner when it makes sense for them to do so. And they fight at other times. And globally, I don't know how many of them there are and all of that. But one of the things that that force clearly wants is for us to feel sophisticated about it. And I think that's one of the things that we need to think about. And that, I believe, is a terrible error, even though I think that the lesson of the second Trump presidency is that many of us discovered what we thought we were voting for just simply didn't show up. Okay. So let's talk about what the solution might be. Well, maybe first we should talk about what the problem is. Okay. Part of the problem is boomers. Speak in my language. Let's go. I wish to be fair to the boomers, but let's just say there's a reason that there are an indefinite number of scams that take advantage of old people. Old people lose the ability to spot bullshit. And at the moment, we have boomers who have lots of defects, who have hoarded power and wealth and do not appear to have a plan to bring us into the future. But they're also now susceptible to pure idiocy where they are now mortgaging our future at a rate like we've never seen. So I would just point to the ad campaign run against Thomas Massey in his. I think it was his primary that used AI to appear to depict him in a threesome with Ilhan Omar and AOC. How is that legal? We're just off the map. map somewhere, right? And the point is, you could say it's an obvious joke, something, right? But of course, it's only obvious if the people on the receiving end of that joke are up to the challenge of spotting it. And we're in the land of AI. The boomers bought it at too high a level. So point being, the antidote to the boomers mortgaging our future out from under us is Gen Z. And Gen Z, A, has the right sort of constitution to it. It has the right ethos to join the battle. And it's clever. It's properly cynical. It's young and ready for a battle. And I believe Gen Z is the only force that can take power from the boomers in time to save the West. And I hope that they will take that seriously. Now, the problem, the thing that will stop them is that they will be worried that they will try to do this and they will look foolish if it fails. But I don't think we have another choice. I think this is the path that actually saves us from the forces that are otherwise liquidating the well-being that is frankly our birthright. So how might that work? Here's the path. There is a movement, a coalition. It does not look unlike the coalition of people that lined up behind Trump in 2024, right? These are politically homeless people who came together as part of MAHA, as part of the America First movement, and supported Trump and are now in power. And I think that's the path that we need to take. We're now feeling betrayed. That coalition is in a position to, I want to be careful with the terminology, to make a friendly takeover of the Libertarian Party. Now, I know every eyeball in the room is going to roll when I say Libertarian Party, okay? Here's the question, though. Libertarian Party has done what no other party has been able to accomplish. They've got broad ballot access, which is the kind of thing that has been impossible for third-party candidates to generate. The Libertarian Party has a problem, which is that not all of it, but a large fraction of it are people who effectively are allergic to power. They don't really want power because then things get messy. You have to compromise. It means that your high-minded principles get tested. So there's a group that doesn't want. They don't want power. And then there's another group that's sort of frustrated. But here's the thing. It is possible, and there is a movement afoot involving very good people who wish to take over the party and effectively relaunch it as something like the American Liberty Party. Change the name. American Liberty Party. Yes. And the idea is it would honor the best Libertarian impulses. In other words, the government that governs best governs least. That does not mean no government, but it does mean that anything government does has to be justified by it ultimately liberating people, right? Government action that does not liberate is not justified. And that coalition could, depending upon how the next several years go, it could, if it didn't elect a president and vice president, if it did not, but it got 5% of the vote, it would become a very important political force. Now, I said something that I felt very clever about some weeks ago, and then I discovered Ron Paul had said it first. So he gets the. Ah, you stole him bar for bar, word for word? Let's put it this way. I think I reinvented a canonical because I wasn't aware that he had said it, but it's possible I'd heard it. Probably existed somewhere in the back of your mind. It may well have. What it was, was somebody had said, oh, you're talking about a third party. And I said, no, no, what we need is a second party. So anyway, kudos to Ron Paul for having. That is a bar. It's good. But yeah, we need a second party. What we effectively have is Tweedledum and Tweedledummer in the form of the Democrats and the Republicans. We know there's no way out through that door. We can't seem to vote against a particular war that we don't want if we can't do that. What use are these things? But the fact that we have an architecture that has been built up over time, a politically robust architecture and a vast coalition of people who are, like we talked about at the beginning of the podcast, ready to put aside their philosophical differences because we are so far off track that at the moment, what we need to do is restore the basics, right? We need consent of the governed. We need informed consent. We need equal protection under the law. We need to restore verifiable elections, et cetera. The basics are obvious. Being able to do them is a heavy lift. But Gen Z can make it happen if it's willing to wrest power away from the boomers who are otherwise going to get us killed. So I'm going to translate this, and please correct me if I'm wrong. If Gen Z were to check out of the system and check into an organized nonviolent revolution, and those two things kind of happen one after the other simultaneously, if you will, maybe you're saying we could actually create a movement that circumvents current party financials, if you will, and duopoly financials to hit a reset button on American politics. You think that's possible in the next decade-ish? Well, let's put it this way. I think it's possible. It is always wise to position yourself in case Goliath trips. Goliath is senile, and the likelihood of Goliath tripping is very high. So you've got very smart people working against the public, but Goliath as a emergent property is prone to make significant errors. But what if through no fault of your own, you're there in a chat, and you have to push Goliath to cushion its fall? I have Gen Z sons. I owe them this. They need to have a future, and my protecting my future at their expense is not acceptable. It's not what a father does. So my point is, I'm in, and I don't think it's safe to be in for me. I think Gen Z can rise up, and nobody's going to come after Gen Z as a population. I'm sticking my neck out, and I'm taking what I perceive to be a risk pointing out that Goliath has a vulnerability, and you know, we need to be picking up our slingshots. And my point to Gen Z would be, if you check out and you don't come up with something that looks like this, and if you've got a better plan, I am all ears. I want whatever plan is most likely to work. I do not need credit. I will participate in anything that looks promising. But if Gen Z does what Gen Z is being induced to do, which is to not pay attention and to feel clever by not taking any of it seriously, I think you're going to end up dying in the desert. Dying in the desert? Yes. What does that look like to you? Actually, it looks like literal dying in the desert, although in this case, it might well be mountains. I mean, something is using our military for purposes they have not shared. And so, you know, look, I don't know how much you've been paying attention to footage from Ukraine. I still pay attention to it. Yeah, me too. Did you see the recent clip of Oh, yeah. Yeah. These middle-aged guys, you know, guys my age handcuffed being taken to the front? Yep. Okay. That's what happens when something decides that your population is expendable, that it wants war in your region for some reason that it doesn't share with you. Now, I knew from the beginning of this Ukraine thing, there was something wrong with the story, right? On the one hand, I have ancestors from Ukraine. I'm sympathetic with the idea. I would like Ukraine to be prosperous and peaceful and all of that. But for some reason, Ukraine was fed to us. It's an excuse for something. It's a hole in the universe to which American tax dollars will be poured and will be completely unaccounted for. And, you know, now a couple of generations of Ukrainians will be liquidated on the front. It's somehow- Liquid. Oh, Jesus. That is so dark and so true. I mean, it's what's happening. It is entirely what's happening. So, okay. You've watched something psychopathic decide that the well-being of the people of Ukraine doesn't matter, and that it's going to put its foot on the gas, And then, you know, I've had long had the sense that something about the Ukraine war and the conflict in the Middle East is the same. And I can't figure out why they should be. But the point is, I don't know what's going on in Ukraine. I don't know if the idea is chaos creates vulnerable people who can be trafficked, if it creates a source for human organs that can be transplanted. I don't know what's going on. But something about the Ukraine story doesn't make sense and never made sense. And it is increasingly in some way connected with the madness in the Middle East, which. It's literally connected now. You saw that attack a few weeks ago? I caught wind of something, but you tell me. Pull that up deep just so I know. One of, if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day, because if you use the link in my description below to. join my newsletter, I'm going to give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the Discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link in my description below. As always, please take one second to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. I really appreciate that. Also, the like button's a big help, and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below. Don't fuck up the details, but it is now literally that, like. They're trying to connect the two through warfare. There was some sort of. It was a drone attack conducted by Ukraine that involved, like, Iranian supply lines. We talked about how just. Diefel, pull it up while we're talking. But, yeah, I share your fear. Okay. So, all I'm saying is, look, if you're as long in the tooth as I am, you begin to get a sense for how dark this can get. The problem with being young. Is that you haven't lived long enough to understand that what you are experiencing is not normal. And. So, anyway, my. When I say you're gonna end up dying in the desert or in the mountains, I mean. I mean something, actually, that the. I think I learned. I used to make fun of libertarians. I don't make fun of libertarians anymore. I've learned an awful lot from them. The power of government. Is terrifying. Okay? I think we need it. We need good governance. But we need to be properly frightened by what happens when that power falls into the hands of something that doesn't care about you. Yes. And one thing that it can do is it can send you to the front line of some war in which you don't have a stake. Right? It can literally decide that, lawfully speaking, you have to go. And whether you're gonna last a few minutes or a few days on the front line, you don't have a choice. Because it can shoot you otherwise. Right? That power is so terrifying that you can't tune it out. I don't care that it's fallen into the wrong hands. I don't care that elections don't work the way that they're supposed to. You have to figure out what you're gonna do about that power. Otherwise, it is going to use it against you at the point that you have no tools left. And like you said, you have two sons who are prime military age. If, you know, they were drafted or something like that. You have literal skin in the game here. I have skin in the game like nobody. A kid who doesn't have kids can really understand. So, yes, the time is now. Enough with this boomer madness. We have to take power from them. And if you're a Gen Z, you have to understand who Gen X is and what it is. Right? Gen X has a lot of powerful people in it. Not all of them are good. But you've got a generation that now has a bunch of tools and a bunch of wealth. It's also. It's also a tiny generation. My generation is so small that, you know, we can't do it. But we can partner. Right? Your generation. Frankly, I think your generation has kind of checked out in an unhelpful way. You're talking about the millennials? Yeah, the millennials. I won't argue with that at all. I think my generation actually is really disappointing when it comes to this stuff. Well, I will just tell you. It is the renegades. It is the renegades in every generation who are going to have to do the heavy lifting. There is a back end part of which, because I'm at the very back end of the millennials, though. There is a large swath of us on that back end that I will say, and I'll definitely speak for myself on this, that identifies much more with the traits and characteristics of Gen Z, for sure. I know Boo's over here shaking his head agreeing with me, you know, because we're also the same age. And I think that there can be like a banding together, especially leading from. the front example with the millennial generation as well from maybe my back end of it to do what you're saying because also like have you read the fourth turning before no i'm aware of what it is okay you of all people definitely would be fascinated by that because what you were saying patternistically ties into exactly what they talk about in there so i'm not going to go through the whole thing because i've bored people with that in the past but you know 1996 book by strauss and brilliant i highly recommend you check it out they look at cycles of the population by 21 and a half year generations and it always follows the same four cycles long story short over and over again which means the same generations exist in the same type of time periods during the same eras of their life zero to 21 and a half 21 to 42 42 to 63 63 and above and when you look at gen z gen z is what's known as the artist generation they are the generation that is born and growing up from 0 to 21 during the era of crisis so think like post 9-11 endless wars global financial crisis political upheaval and populism and unstrive covid ukraine war middle east wars like nothing's been good and so that's what they know and in some ways they're desensitized to the world because they've just seen like a lot of bad but there's also great like the way they explain it is there there can be great risk taking or or great bravery that comes from a generation like that because they operate more from the end if they have nothing to lose and when i think of the boomers who are on the opposite end they're what's known as the profit generation they are the beginning of that quote joe rogan always says about strong men create good times good times create yeah i always forget what it is but i think it's a great question and i think it's a great question and i think it's a people get the point like they operate we ran weak men create bad times that's right yeah i always fucked i want but like they only saw the world through rose-colored glasses because they were born into the boom no pun intended and so like i think tim dillon has the best rant ever on this where he explains why the boomers are the way they are and why they bought all the propaganda because everything they they were the last frontier of like catching everything just at the right moment selling the stock at the top notch you know being able to retire at the at the at a moment where you could still actually do it every they own a home buy something for 20 grand 30 years ago and now it's worth 800 grand and the younger generations they didn't experience any of that particularly gen z they can't even buy a home now the average price to the average age to start buying a home now is 40 you know they're inundated in college debt for educations that largely are not worth it they aren't going to get them anything and are just going to handcuff them they don't have that they're living in this like post-inflationary world that's only seeming to get worse every minute and so the gloves can come off with a generation like that and i think that when you show people throughout their childhood that they have nothing to lose they are the most likely candidates to have a subset of their population say yeah we can check out of this system because we've never been checked into it the danger of that is if you allow that to be circum in my opinion to be commandeered by other totalitarian methods and i don't want to necessarily even put labels on this but like you get what i mean it's like if people say yeah i hear you i understand you this isn't working so let's do this and this is a really bad option you need to be able to have people like you who say hey i see you guys what we have ain't working what they're selling you ain't gonna work either but there's a third door right here and that can work and that can work and that can work and that can work and that can work and create a coalition and i i hope you can do that i'm a little cynical about it i'll admit that but i don't want to sit here and stop it from happening because it would be good for everyone if there were a third frontier created well let's put it this way there is no reason not to try yes to try this i will say i have painfully learned that you have to figure out who you're the woke revolution fell down during COVID. People who shined during COVID fell down over October 7th, right? People who shined in one of these prior things are now falling down over the Charlie Kirk assassination. And what I'm increasingly realizing is there are a lot of flawed good people out there. There's a lot of people who have some issue that's a deal breaker for them, right? Some issue where the principles that they showed over here, they will sideline over there. That's not good. I think gen z you're right they have nothing to lose that they're not already slated to lose so might as well i would also point out this is a place i worry about gen z we do not have a proper culture and i mean that in a literal biological sense oh yeah we do not have shared narratives in which that that are actually robust things that have stood the test of time that we pass on that allow people to know where in the movie they are right my generation did this stuff wasn't perfect and some of it was corporate you know or polluted by corporatism you know the matrix looms very large there's a reason that the term red pill has been co-opted so many different times and it's because it is so resonant you know the idea it's plato's cave really right so the idea that there is a reality that you can see if you choose and it ain't pretty but you're better off knowing what it is because then you can fight that is a very important idea i don't know where that idea exists for gen z maybe the gen z will have to bootstrap it but if they can get their mythology right then the point is actually not only is this the right thing to do because it means that you might have a future it's also the high integrity thing to do it's the thing that allows you to sleep at night to look at yourself in the mirror to wake up in the morning and have meaning and to know what it is that you're supposed to be doing and i'm not saying it's going to be easy in fact the opposite but i can tell you as somebody who has faced tremendous pushback and uh frightening adversaries but wakes up every day with no question about meaning and where it might be found it's worth it it's it's the thing that's going to make you feel better and it's going to make you feel like it's the thing you should want and you should fear a life in which you don't have it right you're being denied the ability to have meaning somebody has decided to make you helpless and decided to entertain you to the point that you can't think straight right to have meaning because your life is about a battle that you don't know if you can win it but you know you have to is in many ways a gift so i just hope that this generation will wake up to what's been taken from them will be properly animated by it and will bring tools to the table that you and i probably can't imagine because they have a very different developmental environment so they're going to fight differently but if they're willing to fight they're going to find partners in the millennials and the gen x's and they're going to find partners in the millennials and the gen x's and there's there's a real battle you'd know it if you saw it on the screen you'd know which side you were rooting for and you want to be on that side that it's a guide to life really it's the gen z's the most fascinating generation i've ever personally seen because there's a wide spectrum there right you have like the back 20 to 25 percent who are like furries and you know i guess they're kind of lost but then you got 20 25 percent that you still have to see grow up more and see where they land and then i'd say that's the most fascinating generation i've ever personally seen i'd say you and these are just anecdotal observations on my part obviously i'm rounding but then you kind of have that top half who are no bullshit you know regardless of what their beliefs are which is a range like they hear something that doesn't make sense they don't go well everyone's saying it i'll just go along with it they go fuck that and they're they're unafraid to say that i find like all the all the people that work with me they're all gen z i find them all to be like work smart over work hard and i mean that in the best way trying to find a way to work smart over hard and i mean that in the best way trying to find a way to find good solutions to things and they they cut through the noise and trim the fat very quickly and that is not something that i noticed at all in the millennial generation or frankly the generations older than mine as well and i think that there is enough of a volume there to do what you're talking about even without looking at the patterns of history like i was laying out with the fourth turning well i i agree with that i've i've seen that uniqueness and it's frankly the first hopeful thing i've seen in quite a while i do worry that the world that the gen z's are being handed has some some sabotage in it that they are going to have to opt out of in order to uh to fly straight what are those specific sabotages the primary one i would say is the destruction of normalcy around mating dating romance all that stuff it's hard for me to emphasize how important romantic relationships are and that the substitute that gen z's are being given not only doesn't work it doesn't do the job that a proper romantic relationship would do but it actually undermines the relationship between the gen z's and the gen z's minds, all of the other jobs in life that need to get done. So, and I, I hesitate to say this a little bit because I'm sure that listening to a guy, you know, I'm 57 years old. That's pretty old. And I have been married since 1998. And I've been with Heather since 1989, since shortly after we graduated high school. So. How'd you guys meet? In high school. Now we were not high school sweethearts. I will tell you. So I, I went to an all boys school, which completely arrested my development in this regard because I was shy and in all boys school, it's very hard to figure out how to meet girls if you're not, if you're not brave that way. So anyway, when I got kicked out of the all boys school, I was. Oh, you got kicked out. You got kicked out. You were a rebel. Oh, a hundred percent. No shit. Of course. I'm surprised you thought otherwise. I know, but would you get, I, I would think you're the kind of rebel that operates underneath the noise and just finds a way to fuck everything up without people finding out. What'd you do? Oh, no, I did the one thing you mustn't do at an elite all boys school, which is not performed to potential. So anyway. That's it? Yeah. You know, there was a. So you were like a low grade, Brett Weinstein? Yeah. I almost said Weinstein. That was bad. That is bad. The Weinsteins are not good people. Yeah. It goes from like genius to real fast. Oh man. Yeah. So thank you for correcting yourself. But yeah, look, I, I was not on board with school. School did not work well for me and it has turned out to be a marvelous gift because at some level it was like I was, pride away from the thing that causes you to become a robot and you know it's had its costs but it's also had its benefits but i've digressed anyway got kicked out of the all boys school got kicked into a co-ed school where heather was fate there it is sort of seems like it yeah um i i did not fall in love with her right away it took 30 40 seconds for me to fall fully um but anyway uh i was just not i was not ready and uh we got together she knew that i had fallen in love with her i did not know that um they always know yeah they always can't i know you can't um but anyway uh so we got together in sophomore year of college and have been together ever since of college and have been together ever since of college and have been together ever since and it has been a it has been such an important i don't even want to say it's been a key to my success because say it's been a key to my success because say it's been a key to my success because it's not even that it's like it's a key it's not even that it's like it's a key it's not even that it's like it's a key to who i am because heather and i to who i am because heather and i to who i am because heather and i effectively grew up together from 1989 effectively grew up together from 1989 effectively grew up together from 1989 from being you know what seemed like from being you know what seemed like from being you know what seemed like adults but frankly looking back not adults but frankly looking back not adults but frankly looking back not really adults we spent all that time really adults we spent all that time really adults we spent all that time adventuring and adventuring and adventuring and forming each other and you know that forming each other and you know that forming each other and you know that that's really what a good romantic that's really what a good romantic that's really what a good romantic partnership does you change them they partnership does you change them they partnership does you change them they change you and you become change you and you become change you and you become unrecognizable from what you would have unrecognizable from what you would have unrecognizable from what you would have been been been so my concern about uh what's going on so my concern about uh what's going on so my concern about uh what's going on now is that the mythology around mating now is that the mythology around mating now is that the mythology around mating and dating and dating and dating is totally wrong absolutely one end to is totally wrong absolutely one end to is totally wrong absolutely one end to the other wrong the other wrong the other wrong and there's lots of like market forces and there's lots of like market forces and there's lots of like market forces pushing young people pushing young people pushing young people into behaving in ways that then close into behaving in ways that then close into behaving in ways that then close off doors that they off doors that they off doors that they um will wish had not if they knew what um will wish had not if they knew what um will wish had not if they knew what they were losing they wouldn't allow it they were losing they wouldn't allow it they were losing they wouldn't allow it to happen to happen to happen so take for example so take for example so take for example the uh covet era the uh covet era the uh covet era covet era was an era drenched in covet era was an era drenched in covet era was an era drenched in like no era before it like no era before it like no era before it why did heather and i do well why did heather and i do well why did heather and i do well key thing was we had each other there key thing was we had each other there key thing was we had each other there was nothing electronic that was nothing electronic that was nothing electronic that intermediated our relationship at all intermediated our relationship at all intermediated our relationship at all right somebody could say something on right somebody could say something on right somebody could say something on television or on the internet about the television or on the internet about the television or on the internet about the danger of the virus about the glory of danger of the virus about the glory of danger of the virus about the glory of the shots about repurposed drugs and the shots about repurposed drugs and the shots about repurposed drugs and heather and i could sit down and have a heather and i could sit down and have a heather and i could sit down and have a conversation with each other and say conversation with each other and say conversation with each other and say well does that make sense to you. And the fact is, we knew each other so well, there was just no, there was no disrupting that, you know, we could make errors together, sure, but nothing was going to get between us. People who didn't have that, people who didn't have at least one person in their life that they could trust completely, in which there was no electronic intermediation, didn't do as well in general. And so I'm concerned, among other things, that the formation of those bonds is not only disrupted by the, you know, hook up, settle down later, if it's the kind of thing you want to do, if not, no big whoop, that that culture is broken enough. But AI is making things even worse, because the temptation, to consult AI for everything, is irresistible, right? You're trying to navigate a relationship with somebody, and you're stuck in a bind, you don't know what it means. You ask the AI, well, you know, why did she say this? And the AI gives you an answer, maybe it's even a pretty good answer. But next thing you know, you're both consulting the AI about forming a relationship. You don't even know what relationship you have, because the AI is actually literally intermediating between you. So, the AI is actually literally intermediating between you. That's a very dangerous place to be. How about also like the swipe right, swipe left, you know? Well, look, again, these are things that are going to make me sound like, you know, they're going to make me sound like a boomer. Yeah. Get off my fricking lawn, right? But here's the reality. First of all, let me just say, it's not that my generation had this right. Sex and dating was already wildly fucked up for Gen X. It's been fucked up since the boomers, frankly. Now, maybe before, but the thing about the boomers is- It's always the boomers, man. Well, it's birth control. Reliable birth control plus abortion did something to humans. It was really, you could argue about whether it was the first major transhumanist transition for humans, but it was certainly a transhumanist revolution. It gave humans power over the human body. It gave humans power over when to reproduce and how much to reproduce without having to regulate sex. It decoupled the two. And the problem with that is, at least for men, sex is the most powerful motivator in the known universe. Yes. Okay. When sex is scarce because women are terrified of being stuck raising a child, a child alone, which causes them to regulate sex, men have to live up to the standards that women set in order to have a sexual relationship. Okay? And you can argue that that's all very provincial or- No, keep going. Archaic or whatever. It's interesting. Keep going. But the point is, sex is supposed to be absolutely awesome and rare. And the things that allow you to gain access to it are important things, right? Men moved mountains in order to win the favor of an attractive woman. Okay? That logic evaporated with reliable birth control plus abortion. It made sex common. It lowered the stakes to the point that it became, you know, people will laugh if I say it's uninteresting, but it is apparently uninteresting that people are now opting for substitutes for it because it's not worth the hassle. Right? So that is a critical problem in the motivational structure of people. Now, I'm not arguing that we should go back to a state before birth control. No. Not only do I not think it's possible, but I'm not even sure it's wise. But we do have to do something to fix the motivational architecture so that people are inclined to do good things. We have been basically lured into a kind of frivolousness over everything, right? I'm on a lonely quest against things like, you know, entertainment, right? Entertainment is the trivial version of something powerful. I'm not arguing that you shouldn't be entertained, but the idea that you should be just simply entertained by something is a waste of all of the cognitive power you put into processing it. That's right. Right? Whereas a powerful narrative that spoke to you, yeah, it would entertain you along the way, but that's not the most important thing it would be doing. So anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying, I think. If I were. If I could take the wisdom of my 57-year-old self, but I was, you know, 20 or 25, I would be trying to find somebody with marvelous starting materials, somebody with really awesome character and depth, and I would be looking to opt out of the sexual culture of Gen Z. That's a fascinating way you just laid that out, and I'm going to play that back again later and listen to that, because I think there are some really valid points in there. There's something I would add to it to start, and that is, I think, like the access to porn and the dopamine, you know, gooning and all that that people can do at all times at the click of a button. There's something very broken in society with that, for sure. I do think that regardless of there being birth control and therefore wider spread sex, and I don't think this is anecdotal. I talk to a lot of people, and either they admit this or you can see it very clearly, at least speaking from the men's side. I can't speak to the women's side, but from the men's side, even if you do have access to sex a lot easier now than you would have in 1950 or whatever, there is still the concept of being motivated by the fact that many men operate in the same way. Who maybe have access to women all the time and are able to do that, they still operate from the secret place of they have everything they want except the one that they do. Right. And I see that a lot. I've seen that a lot in my own life, too. And, you know, so even if you're getting sex, it's not the same. I 100% agree with this. This is one of the things I think women, young women, do not understand. It's something that their grandmothers did understand, or maybe their great-grandmothers at this point. But here's the problem. Men have two reproductive strategies, okay? One of them is a high-investment strategy where men invest in their partners and their partner's offspring. And the other is a no-investment strategy. And they function separately, right, for evolutionary reasons that are actually— It surprises me are not obvious to people, right? From the point of view, what is the best way to leave your genes in the future as a man? Well, traditionally, it's been to invest in a partner and her offspring, right? The other strategy is low success. But it's also low investment. It's a bargain. Yeah. So the point is, a man—so, you know, when guys, when there are no women around, or at least it was this way 25, 30 years ago, men would openly talk about the fact that, you know, that girl, future wife. I'd like to fuck that one. That's the way it was described. That's where Marry, Fuck, Kill started. Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. He's like, yeah, played it all the time. So the point is, in a man's mind, this makes perfect sense, right? It's not a contradiction. If a woman, presumably no woman, has ever been a man, in a woman's mind, having never been a man, the distinction is blurred, right? In other words, you will watch young women think that if they are getting the sexual attention of a man, that that's progress. Even if what she ultimately wants is a husband. The idea is, oh, if you're getting his attention, you're getting somewhere. And the answer is no, you actually may be turning him off on the future wife channel. As you're turning him on, on the getting laid channel, right? So if you understood that and you realized, actually, as a woman, it is in my interest that, you know, how do I say this? Women used to have a tremendous amount of power. It was not power of the same sort that men had. And I'm not arguing that it was fair or desirable or whatever. But just a simple fact is, women used to have a ton of power. Like, how much could they make happen on planet Earth with what they brought to the table? Now, they're trying to make it happen. trading it for nothing. What they've lost in terms of power is spectacular, but they feel empowered in the process. I think they've been conned. And if, look, I'm often using Heather as an example because Heather has sort of done the thing that I think feminism promised and few have gotten from it, right? Heather accomplished much in science. Not only did she get an advanced degree, but she was very good at it, you know, award-winning stuff. And she did it under really difficult conditions, right? Her dissertation work was done in Madagascar. There was no field station, no support of any kind. She bootstrapped her entire project on the other side of the and unpleasant. That's an independent woman right there. Right. She also has two marvelous children, right? She's had one marriage. It's in very good condition. Good. Seems that way. Seems like you guys are perfect for each other. You know, I think I drive her crazy and I wish I didn't. But the point is she's not going anywhere. So the point is, okay, she didn't give up something. She's not a 50s house, right? Her children did not suffer for her absence as a career person. Yes, she benefited from some luck along the way. You know, we were teaching at a college that had a daycare center, which allowed that job to be reconciled more easy. But the point is, it's not traditional at all. But it does show that there's a pathway in which you don't surrender all your power and you do chart your own course. It is possible. So the failure to understand that men have this divided nature has, I think, caused women to try to behave like men at their worst. That women behaving like men at their worst is causing men to not find them sympathetic. And men are defaulting to their, frankly, predatory side. When a man tries to have sex with a woman that he has no intention of investing in, it's predatory because really what he's trying to do, even though it's not the terms that he thinks of it in, what he's trying to do is impregnate her and force her to raise the offspring, right? He's like trying to steal 18 years of labor from her, right? That's pretty nasty. And women are playing into it. The whole time, the question is, well, you know, women are thinking, God, these men suck. Well, okay. You're playing the game in a way that's bringing that out of men. And yeah, they're behaving in a predatory way towards you. And then women seeing that men are behaving in this way sort of feel like, why am I bothering to be decent? Maybe I should just, you know, play the game as I feel like it by no rules whatsoever. And that's causing men, to resent the women they encounter. And I think that this is just, it's a clusterfuck that basically men and women are, um, alienating each other. Yes. Men and women have the ick for each other in Gen Z and it's very dangerous. And I think what they've come to believe is that that's the fundamental nature of men and women rather than we've fallen into a state that is causing us to behave in ways that we don't like each other. And that feels like a long, of things some of which you just laid out that's almost coordinated in a way to make sure that that's the end result for some larger planet just feels that way well not only that but think about all the other things it goes along with yeah right the uh encouragement of um so-called gender positivity the most ironic term all right uh or your what is it gender affirming care well you're affirming one gender and negating another at exactly the same moment but anyway the point is it is amazing how our civilization embraces absolutely every single thing that would keep people from romantically pairing up and producing a healthy family yeah i think you just tapped into something extremely right on brand evolutionary about the concept i forget how you just said it but you were like women are behaving like the most predatory of men which is bringing out the predatory side of men how did you say it i'm sorry women are behaving like men at their worst okay so you ever seen this nyc divorce lawyer guy yes he's great he's great i might finally amanda i might finally do that podcast he's just been on like every podcast so i've been kind of putting it to the side but the guy's awesome and he says a lot of truths that you don't want to hear that then you're like damn it he got me and he said this one thing one time i saw the clip i was like holy he nailed it he goes listen i don't make the rules argue with a wall but it's the truth every good girl secretly wants a bad boy that only she can make good and every good boy secretly wants a good girl that only he can make bad and i think what's happened here is that that some of the some of the paradigm has shifted to where maybe they'll just let out the bad right away for everyone such that it's just defined that way that you know if that sorry there's a better way to say that maybe maybe the girl jumps to be in bed right away because she thinks that's what everyone wants and then suddenly it creates you know this reputation that women are suddenly just loose with their bodies and being and none of them are therefore desirable for having a mate and it creates tension from the male side towards the female side and then when the males reject them it creates tension from the females towards the males because they're like all men just leave and it feels like that's not at all a new phenomenon and that's why it was really hitting me with like your birth control point like when the pill came out 60 years ago because i'm like you know that feels like it's probably been in the works over the last two three decades especially and maybe now i'm thinking it could be longer like you said well i think i think that's exactly correct and i also think you know you don't know how many of these things are just happenstance and what of it might have been a somebody's plan but the idea that men and women finding each other unsympathetic and becoming very instrumental and mercenary with respect to sex just kind of using each other that then creates vulnerability to propaganda on every front if you don't have the partner who stands above civilization and its conversation if you're basically embedded in the civilizational conversation and sex is just something it's an activity right then you're vulnerable because there's nobody with whom you have a special union that i you know i know it sounds corny but that it's not corny yeah the special union thing let's put it this way sex is extremely powerful and it can be rendered trivial the ability of sex to modify a person is profound and foregoing that for you know basically the uh you know i don't know the uber eats version of sex is not a win right let's even even if we were to say the question is how to maximize your sexual pleasure over a lifetime okay well there are a bunch of factors in the equation of sexual pleasure one of them would be frequency well we've now increased the frequency with which you can access it but another one would be the import the stakes right the sex with somebody where the stakes are high because you can't live without them right that's a whole different sport and it seems to me relatively likely that most people who don't realize that there are different things flying under the same banner may go their entire life and never have that experience right i mean the itch isn't supposed to be that easy to scratch and the uh the modification of humans by our tech nological intervention is profound at a level that i just don't think moderns understand it's really changed who we are yeah i i think that whole idea there has given people a lot to think about certainly like a jumping off point you don't have to agree with every single thing you said but like there's some harsh truths in there too that we've seen play out like the boiling frog like you're talking about it's very slow and over time now how do you how do you unring some some of that bell without saying like we're gonna go back to the time where there's no phones or something like that you know obviously Obviously, that's not feasible, but how do you bring it back a little bit? I will give you two pieces of advice. Hard to take, but they would have to be in order to address a problem this serious. One of them, you know, I've tried to figure out how to navigate this with my own sons, what to tell them. Oh, right. One thing I want to say first, I think it is important to recognize that the problem is a game theory problem, right? Let's say that everything I've said here is true. It still doesn't solve the problem from the point of view of, let's say, a young woman, because if she opts out of this situation, then she just gets ignored. Basically, all the women who are playing this game are undermining the power of any woman who elects not to. She's not in a position to end that on her own. So basically, every woman is dragged into this. In light of that, what I've told my sons is I don't think you should sleep with anybody that you know is not on the list of potential long-term rights. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. 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