Afl. 6: De toekomst van kunst

I think the painters who were confronted with photography in the 19th century... ...were the same. But we still think that photography is an art form. Hi, I'm Ruby. - And I'm Eva. Together we're doing the Future Proofcast. This week we're going to talk to experts about the latter trends... ...and developments in their field of expertise. Cheers! And today we have a very special guest. And that's Gerwalt Radsma. Welcome. - Hi. It's great that you're here. - Of course. And the sun. The sun in the house. - That's always good. Nice. - Nice. Gerwalt, docent and artist. That's your title. That's right. - Tell us more if you'd like. Well, I work at the Photo Academy. And here at the Competence Factory I work at a very nice place. And I do a lot about creativity and the forced areas of art. And now I'm also a part of AI. - Okay. What I'm doing is self-made. - Wow, a hotel. I see a clock. - Yes, an S-shirt-like thing. All of them. - So you also do a kind of clothing design. Yes, myself. - But in the meantime, AI? Yes. And then you're sent back. So I don't print it myself. How does it work? - You make something in a sign, you send it up. And then... - But where do you send it to? On the website somewhere in Lita, how do they do that? Okay. - And then you get it sent back. And when you want to finish your website, that's a golden thing to do. That's pretty much it. - And marketing is what you do. Well, it doesn't look like that anymore. Then you can start a shop and send it to your customers. Wow, that's cool. So there's a lot of competition in the retail market. Yes, especially when you're going to design your own clothes. Yes, that's the future. You're going to go to small scale stores. Of course, AI takes over my work, but for the creative... ...it's difficult for the people who are fine painters... ...and maybe the pressure on top of the bank will be filtered in with AI. But something you used to need a whole studio for, you can now do it alone. Wow. - And that's nice, of course. We're back to the pre-sale round. Gerwalt, artist and a teacher. Where are we going to talk about today in the podcast? About the future of design in AI. - Yes. Because there's a lot to talk about. - Yes, indeed. We're going to start with... I wanted to say the battle. I can't wait, but let's start with the positions. There are four positions prepared for us. I'm going to present them to Eva and you. I want to answer your questions as quickly as possible, one by one. And then we'll talk about it further. Okay, can I also answer if I don't have a choice? No, the last thing we can do. Yes, you have to answer for sure. - No, if I want to answer the question. You can't say "pass". - Exactly. I'm not going to say "pass". I'd be very disappointed if you said "pass". As an expert, you do have an opinion on this. Developers with AI tools in Photoshop, wheelen. Wait a minute. - Wheelen? Wheelen? Oh, I'm sorry, Gerwalt. No, this is an error, according to me. Developers who work with AI tools in Photoshop... ...are better than developers who don't use this tool. Better than. - Better than? First or the worst? Gerwalt. - I'm looking at you. Well, to make it even better, I'll say "one". One, and... - I'm not sure what to say. Then I'll say "one". - Then I can say "one". I don't want to say "one". - I don't want to say "one". Then I'll say "one". - I don't want to say "one". I don't want to say "one". - I don't want to say "one". I don't want to say "one". - I don't want to say "one". I also want to say "one". - No, but what did you say in the first instance? When I was first talking to you... - Yes, all of a sudden. Yes, of course, political all of a sudden. - Then you'll say "one". Nothing is right or wrong, eh? Next, if you don't work with AI tools, you're not a good graphic designer. Oh, that's... no, that's... - Eva. Yes, I totally gave up here, right? This is just not... I can't let this go. But I would say that you're one of those designers. Yes, Adolba. Okay, and... - I can also say "one" with a pot. But whatever, that's just fine. Then we'll go on like this. - Well, Gerwalt, what's your answer? No, absolutely no need for Adolba. - Absolutely not. It's going to go well now, that attitude. Not yet how to adapt. Okay, keep that in mind. You're at 50%. AI changes creativity instead of comparing it. It makes art meaningless. Sorry, I see a colleague laughing too hard. I'm reading it wrong again. Is this colleague the one who also does this preparation? That's what I think. - Yes, very well thought out. And sometimes we have a fight, handwritten and me. AI changes creativity instead of comparing it, I think. It makes art meaningless. Those are still statements. Risky form, but no. Gerwalt reacts again as the first one. - No, but that's not possible. Not at all. I see a doubt on the right. I'm going to talk about it. Okay, it's an interesting battle. Until now, you're the only one. The only one. - No, you're the only one, by the way. The second one wasn't... The last one. The graphic designer will die out of time. Triste. - No. C1. - No, you can't do that. No, it's not like that. - No, it's not like that. No, both on one. Nice. Well, let's start with the first statement, both of which your reaction to the last one is very nice. So let's start with the last one. I'm curious about that. You're both talking about the graphic designer who will die out of time. The painters were afraid when photography came to solve the art of painting. You hear the same story. - Sorry, that's the art of painting? The painters are still the painters, the portrait painters. Photography is probably better in that. But there are more to it. And there's someone who... Look, the AI doesn't press a button. It's not going to happen in the future. You always have an intention of someone who will do that. Someone who needs good taste, who has been busy with it, who serves the product. The product? - Yes, the buttons. It can't come out of itself, but suddenly... - Potlots. No, it's not going to be drawn in one go. At the same time, there are more robots. Is there the drawing that makes the robots so programmed... ...that they make such a drawing? - The thought that makes people wrong... ...is that when you think about AI, you think that people are gone. But people are still there. I think it's a nice example that you're talking about. Is that really the case? Did you experience that in your experience? That people were really afraid when photography was created. Maybe it was a bit nicer. - I didn't experience that in the 1800s. No, you didn't. I was looking at the question, and I thought, no, it's not going well. Could a graphic designer work more effectively? Sure. - So it could result faster? Sure. And someone who then looks... Yes, for sure. I think one of the fun things you see is that... ...it's something like the perfume store, where you put bottles and other drawings. Why not? Why only one image per bottle? Maybe you're going to save it. That's some cool stuff. It opens all the new doors. And of course, you can keep so many people at work... ...who are probably a qualitative answer to that. If you think that it's going to be less, if everyone becomes more effective... ...you're either going to make more images or there's less work for everyone. Yes, a nice example that you say about those perfume bottles... ...you would say, "There's more work. We're not doing that yet." Sure. - So that's nice. Everyone stays at work. And why do you want the same hang-up beer as your neighbour? You just want to choose it yourself. - And then you're still personalized. Sure, that's just kicking. And that was the limitation. So there are just nice new opportunities for a graphic designer with AI. Both things are going to happen. - Together. Both things are going to happen. Yes, there will be people who will be next to the boss... ...and there will be people who will see new opportunities. Yes, it's urgent that you continue to develop. Absolutely. - That you really learn to work together with AI as a graphic designer. And your own knowledge of setting the top. My illustrator, who is also here, was also working on it. He said, "You want to build a helicopter." It's pretty smart. But you can pull the helicopter via AI to your own style. And you can draw it from above. Yes, wait a minute. - You're laughing, aren't you? You're working on it for a long time. - A helicopter, that's what happened here. Yes, in the conversation. So you want to draw a helicopter... ...and think, "Pfft, it's your mine." - Difficult. You want to practice, right? You can also pull it in via AI... ...to put it in a line, for example, to your own style. It costs a lot of work, but it's just learning what it's all about. And then you draw your own design on top of it. So you're working on it with layers. And then you have a nice product very quickly. You start with something from a Blanco film... ...but you start with a kind of contour. And you put it on top of your own... ...well, a piece of canvas to make it all yours. But as an artist, did you never see AI as something of a glamour? No, I really like it when I'm working on new things. I also do photoshop pretty quickly. During my studies, I didn't like it when I was working on digital things. I had a lot of criticism when I thought it was art. So I always had a kind of foresight in the eyes of the future. It's just that when you get a job... ...you have the first computer, then the internet, and MP3s. There's one kind of media technology. It's a bit boring. I think the internet has already said, what are we going to do now? So you see it as a nice new opportunity. Sure. -Nice. New tricks, new ideas. -Sure. For an artist like Brian, that's nice. Developers with AI tools in Photoshop... Well, I'll say it again, wheels, I want to say. Let's talk about wheels. -Wheels and deals. That's no problem. -No, just do it. Developers who work with AI tools in Photoshop... ...are better than developers who don't use this tool. So developers who work with AI tools in Photoshop... ...are better than developers who don't use this tool. You can't really say better, right? -No. It might be handy, but it's not better, of course. Photoshop is running in the background. It's a year-long technology that's two years old. That's pretty quick. -Okay. So they really have to do their best to make something positive. Moreover, they've trained AI on the work of another platform, Mid-Journey. Where I teach a lot. Mid-Journey is the new market leader at the moment. So, yeah, Photoshop. But that attitude, yeah, I don't know. As I said, you can use pen and paper to make a good form. And you can also use pen and paper to transfer those lines to AI. So if I draw a square, I give it to a certain procedure. I give it to AI, say, make a metal case with a machine. Then it takes the layout I made and makes it... -Act it yourself. So we can conclude that Photoshop is imported by AI? Yeah, it has to work hard now, yeah. Really, really hard work. What do you think is the future of Photoshop? A nice blend of all kinds of different methods. We even had the same moment in the 80s with samples in synthesizers. We went from acoustic to synth. And then you have people who say, "You have to make the best music." I say, "Yeah, we can make other kinds of music." And that's all the synth music, like house and so on. It's fun. -And that's what it's like now. But we don't know what it's going to be like. We're in the middle of it. That's interesting, Sam. Can I ask you a question? A blend of methods, what do I have to say about that? One of the things that came to mind was that someone was perfect. He had a very nice pitch, you know? He was very nice. And that was something from Google. They show the last time a nice scene in a sick demo, but they never bring it out, of course. But the method was really cool. You saw that he was nervous and said, "Make a trumpet out of this." And then he heard a perfect acoustic trumpet. I think he was nervous. So... -The sound, is that something like that? So the interface is getting more and more humanistic. We're sitting with the prompt with Chad. But yeah, now such a party also has an audio input. So we're talking, that's going very fast now. And we're going very fast, too. That direction, that you can draw with a pen, that's already there. You can draw with a pen, a sort of stick pop. And that makes the person go, "Pop, fashion model." You can do that. It's not that good, but it's all there. It's all in development. -Yeah, yeah. But I don't work with Photoshop, for example. AI tools are already integrated in... Yes, nice. -Intrigued in Photoshop. Yeah, they have a lot of it. -That's true, but you don't really use it yourself? No, if you... -You just skip Photoshop and... Yeah, Photoshop is not so good. If you want to generate a unicorn or a unicorn... ...you either get a paper or a clip art version that you think of... ...okay, I'm just going to google it. It's not so well-developed yet. -And you also talked about "my journey." You use that a lot. -Yeah. And why do you use "my journey" so much? Yeah, "my journey" has quite a lot of competition at the moment. Something like "Stable Diffusion" and "Flux." "Flux" is the latest. That's really nice, but it's just new and it's not so well integrated. But "my journey" is really about the creative process. So instead of using a sort of slot machine... ...you know, a Gok machine, and they're like, "Oh, what's new? What's new? What's new?" You can say, "Hey, I think it's nice. Make a new version of this one, another one." So you can just spin endlessly. -Due to your development. While you're working on it. -Yeah. And then it suddenly doesn't seem like you're even more focused on the prompt. But you've been doing a good job of spinning the wires. Or you're like, "Hey, I'm going to combine this and make a new one." That's really smart of the guests. -And that's not a good quality. No? Oh. Well, for the listeners, because you can see Gerr was putting his face here. He's making a sort of... Well, a bit fussy. Yeah, as if I had a lemon. -Yeah, something like that. No, that's not possible. -It's really fun. I give myself the Photoshop training, but sometimes you see... ...that big companies just can't keep up with it anymore. And, yeah, Photoshop is already very clear. -It's become so thin that they might... Is there a sort of data model, because they had a Reinicio earlier in the podcast. And he also tells that it's a certain data model that needs a lot of attention. And that you have to put a lot of words together. Does that also work with Majority? Only with words? Exactly. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is how a model is trained, for example. There's also a lot of attention on whether it's allowed or not. The legal system can do it all, but it's desirable, yeah, okay. Ethical questions. -Yeah, and the legal system still has to... ...be built around it, after all. So, yeah, good. When do you say, "No, this is going too far, this can't be done."? If you really produce things that are very similar to the person... ...of the maker himself, not on his face, but on what he makes. Yeah, so I have to say, a kind of silence. -That you say name after name... ...you make your image just like Banksy. -Do you think that's a copy? Yeah, Vincent van Gogh doesn't suffer from copyright. -No, I don't think that's a problem. No, that's a public domain. That's just 80 years after the death of the maker. Something like that. In the US, it would be about the same in the Netherlands. Well, it's also nice to know. 80 years after the death of the maker. Then you can just say, "I'm just going to make Vincent van Gogh a name." But the styles are not copywriting. The image in the copywriting. So, if I also make a green with blue jerky... ...I can just do that. But if it seems very similar to what you have... ...then you have a chance that someone will come after you. How long does the production process last, Gerwald? When can we expect you to make a jerky like that? -I think so, too. I'm not that fast. I might be looking for it, but... It's fun, isn't it? That blouse, and then a slightly longer blouse. Yes, indeed. It's all weird, in 2024. -But what was your question? How long does it take to design something like that? Or maybe it won't take a lot of time to design something like that. No, that's going to be faster. And also in the creative process. How long have you been working on it? How long does it take? Here, two days. -Two days? Maybe a room, maybe three. -Do you want to design something like that? But then I'm already... -If you're crazy, do three, and then... But I've already set up systems that I'm busy with, and I'm constantly busy... ...with AI, to generate images, just as long as I'm enthusiastic... ...and I can't do anything else, and I forget all the other things I have to do... ...and then I'm going to make my t-shirts. -And then he goes to the production... ...and he goes to the ordering. -That takes five days. Five days? -Yes, something like that. Does it cost the same for sale? -It's at the... I always have... I always like to design my own clothing line. Oh, I can help you with that. -So yes, something with green and blue and a skirt. You have to pay for sale costs, but if you do that to your client... ...you have to arrange that for your client, of course. Oh, interesting. Gerwold, we'll talk about that later. It's a nice collaboration, I think. -Then not the yellow, blue, red... ...but for the designers of the future, where you first had to keep a brief... ...that you want to start with a photographer, and then you have to play everything safe... ...then you can now, as a designer, start with something that almost... ...looks like what you're almost done, and give that as the turning point... ...to a photographer. So you can change the whole production process. Where you used to have to plan everything in advance. You can just keep throwing with the double stones, as long as you find something cool... ...and continue with that, instead of having to cut everything from top to bottom. You can now work very intuitively. -Yes, yes. And that's very, very nice. -Created by doing, yes. Created by doing, yes. -Very cool. I would also like to move on to the next question. AI changes creativity instead of enriching it, it makes art useless. Well, if you haven't heard this answer... ...through your answers, and how you talk about it... ...then I don't know anymore, right? You talk about it, you create it, it goes on... ...then you can't say it's useless. It's just going on. But I understand where the question is coming from. When it comes to art, we often want to collaborate, for example... ...with the artist, with what he does, what he does. So you have one person, or a group, who has a good taste... ...who always has interesting things, and I want to be a part of that. Community, somewhere. -Yes, when you're a fan of an artist... ...you go to him, I don't know, it's a collaboration, or something like that. And AI has no intention, so someone says something to it. If you don't do anything, it doesn't work out, so there's no initiative. No. I made you a prompt, something like, "The person that's most important to you... ...that you love, blah, blah, blah, and I came up with a very nice portrait... ...someone with a very big, beautiful eye, who's very empathetic to look at you." I thought you could still feel it. -I thought you could still feel it. So on the one hand, you say, "No, you're right, it doesn't have any intention... ...so it can't send anything out, and art is made by the viewer... ...the viewer with those people in his world." On the other hand, if I see something that touches me emotionally... ...which is generated by an AI, it really touches me emotionally. So it can literally come in, right-wing to your soul... ...but there's no intention to interpret it as artlessly as in... ...I would also be able to interpret it as the artist stops art and spirit in a work. In his art, of course it can also be done with AI... ...but then there's already a basis created from AI. So I don't need it to be emotionally touched by an image... ...that there's a maker, I've noticed that. Just because I've seen something, I'm like, "Wow, I'm under the bridge." "The last selfie on earth." I've made someone do it once. Then you see an image that's dramatic, but that's also the story behind it. So that's the idea of the maker? -It's true. But I think that the painters who were confronted with photography in the 19th century... ...were the same. But we still find in photography that there is an art form. And what do you think, what I just said, that you end up in a piece of art and spirit? If you look at it from that point of view. So if you have two different blind tests with collars... ...and you know that this is the collar of the brand, well-known brand... ...then you're going to evaluate it better. So the context. It's context. But not per se, because it's happening. The context makes it important. So if you're a fan of someone's context... ...and you think it's great what they're doing... ...of course, the image is getting better and better. And I think that's a certain emotion. Of course, the context can be called emotion. Let's compare it with this podcast. It's funny how it's created. Because we had a table first. A large, long table with us on the one hand. And on the other hand, the guest, like you. And then you talk, you have this, you have a microphone, and we're talking about it. But context, we're sitting here in a certain way. Also quite relaxed, sometimes with the feet up. We have a little wine with us. Yes, it all just gives a different context. So we're talking to each other here too. So the dynamic that does something. I also believe in that. - We are emotional beings... ...who just want to have food, because of that. Yes, and when it's controlled by AI, sometimes a set has been given or received. Or that what you just said creates it, there is also silence. There is also your thought in your control. We are emotional, with this setting. - No, not at all. You're not siloed. - You're not siloed. No, maybe even a little less. - Lucky. Well, it's siloed when it's just produced in mass and produced in poor quality. But that's the word. Mass production. Yes, exactly. - I tried that just now, I didn't quite get there. But it's about mass production. - Mass production. That it's just a nice feeling. - And mass production. That it becomes more personal because of an artist... ...that created himself with hands, blood, sweat and tears. Instead of it being sold like that from time to time. But also when you have a car in your work that your father used to have... ...and you have emotional problems with it. And that can be your band with the car of your past. Touché. And then there can be a lot of that car, or a certain blood pressure. And that can be because you have that band. - That's a very nice example. Both of them are money, right? It wasn't Contra, but it was full. Yes, it was N. - And not OV. Both things, the money. - Yes. Well, answer both of you, suddenly. If you don't work with Adobe tools, you're not a good graphic designer. We can't do that now, of course. Because everything you said about Adobe is running backwards, isn't it? No, that's totally wrong. - And there were... Mark Tearsville, for example, who didn't grow up in that corner... ...in people's programs, like Kalfa, or something like that. You know, this is not an excuse to be able to communicate well, is it? And are you already a little bit looking at the law, I think? And that's because there's a colleague on the right behind the button... ...who is very good at changing this podcast, but also a little bit... ...we make at Contra's Factor, and of course it feels almost like a flock in the church... ...but we also make a lot of things in Kalfa. - Of course. Our social posts, a banner here and there. - And we also have a nice training for Kalfa. Oh, that one too. You can join us, but do that for me then, because honestly... No, just tell us, how is your vision on that? - How the market works. Oh, no, I've been working on Photoshop for years already, so we're still working on this program... ...from 1990, not from the 90s, but from 1990, a very specific week. But you also give training in Photoshop, right? - Yes, for sure. But you've been working on it for years. - Yes, of course. If you're in love, you can just do that. You have to recognize your group. - Yes. Come on, we have to do it together. - It's all known to you. That's what you love so much. - From a market leader who just doesn't... I think, well, they all know the story, don't they? We've noticed that a lot of times, they have to be shot, and I hope they move quickly. And that's nice things to do. - That's the NS, that you think... Sorry, and this is what I've been doing all the time. - The S? NS, because you don't ride in other people's positions. You don't ride all the time. In the morning, I was around 7 o'clock. You were quiet. - No, but... If a person from the NS listens to you, just go and make sure... No, we have to enhance it. Look at how many trains you get on a day. Yes, but that one from 7 o'clock in the morning, not from the morning. And it's almost 6 o'clock in the morning. - No, but I totally understand that. That's a lot of fun. I called you at the start of the morning... ...to put you in a hurry under the belt. - We're happy that you're there. It's a shame that the listeners don't see this, but it looks great. You wouldn't say that they've been on for half a session. I'd like to go to YouTube to see it. - Just to see how the blue-green... How they're sitting here, in blue-green, at Studio Space to Create. Do you want to tell us where that is, Eva? - Oh, yes. That's your type of sport. - No, we haven't done that yet. But Gerber is a son in the house, but we also have son on the background. And we're really... - And the train is still in the background. You have everything in one shot. - Yes, in one shot. I have it on the train and it's literally in the background. We're at Studio CS. - Oh, oh, oh. It says on the record, I've been on the train for three minutes. That's very nice. - Yes. That's very nice. - But rolling, when he's driving... What are you up to, guys? - As market leaders. As market leaders. Actually, you started talking about NS. You started talking about NS. - Sorry, guys. But I get that you had to get out of it. - Yes, thank you. I don't hope that NS has a few lawyers here on this matter. Well, they'll hear this a lot, right? - Yes, that's true. No, that's not the only thing. - No. But in the end, we can say that he has tools, and you can call him that. Just a little step away. Do you like a step away? With a train? - Yes, that's a big step away. Oh, yes, this again. - I'm one step away from that. It's nice that they just took over the big competition of photocopies. So I expected a one-two match. - That's great. It's great that you just picked it up again, where we were. That's what we needed. - But the biggest competition? Yes, it's an affinity photo. Affinity photo? - You only pay 25 euros. No, that was about 60 euros. You don't have to pay yearly or monthly. - Monthly? That's how we used to buy software. - Really? Yes, they just bought it. It's a clone of photoshop. They also have an InDesign and an Illustrator variant. What else can we do in Canva? - Not yet. Not yet? - Yes, that's just a month or so ago. It's also nice for this course. Sometimes you get a pop-up... ...of guys who have added a new function. And then you have to... It goes so fast. Every day I'm busy for a few hours to add the newest member. Sometimes it's during the class itself that there's a new function. You think, "Oh, we're going to dive in." So it goes so fast with the AI system. How many hours a day do you spend on your laptop? I'm very excited. I follow a lot of YouTube channels... ...and then I think, "Oh, I don't know what you're talking about anymore." What did you say? - I don't get it. If you're a dog, I'll put news on a few of those channels I follow. And then you think, "Oh, not yet." The Feature Proofcast you're talking about now... ...that you listen to while leaving the dog. - That's for sure. No, it was yesterday in the train. - Oh, yesterday? Oh, NS is coming again. - Oh, here's the train. Yes, I got it. - Yeah, that's nice. Hey, that was the exhibition. - Yeah, yeah. That means that we've arrived at the listener's question. And then I might have a small, touching question, but if that's possible. Because you're just so interested in the tools and the development of AI. And this question is also about this person. Well, I'm a UX designer myself. I started at Wattof Diep in AI. Do you have a good YouTube where I can start? Oh. - So a UX designer. A UX designer. Starts to deepen, so it's starting. - Sure. Starts to cover art and art. - Well, that's... A UX designer, do you think that's art? - Well, I think it's artistic, right? UX has more to do with layouts. Oh, no, sorry. Interfaces, I mean. It's really visual. And that's where AI hasn't really landed yet. I mean, Kanfa has already experimented with slides and so on... ...to try to make it from JetGPT. But it hasn't really developed yet. But what's on the hand now is with the name "Copy", as you call it in Dutch... ...or the "creatives". So you've taken pictures and audio, and now this summer video has been released. But that's more the content side. So with a UX designer you don't have that many software. So we're working on that. We're not ready yet for GPTs, I believe. So you have to upload a kind of prompt... ...to make it easier for you to do your job, or to say, "I have a tip for you." If you look at the development side, you have a lot to do in programming. The text and the software side is very much in the lift. Oh, yes. - Video is very much in the lift. Audio has just been in progress before the summer break. Sino and Udio, that's a platform. But not yet in the lay-out country. You don't see that many things yet. What's your biggest tip? You're in front of that class, more often. And then you say, "If you don't start yet..." Yes, that's what I'm talking about. - Who am I talking to? You're really a beginner. - What's interesting is that UX... ...can't be given that many things yet. Apart from that, you can develop more in development, in programming... ...or content-wise, for placeholders, to make a new design... ...so that it sells well and people are enthusiastic about it. That's what I want to do. What's more visual? - For example, it's more journey-like, nice. It's very low-cost, good... - Again with journey? Yes, more journey-like. - How much does it cost, if I want to close that? You have a tenth a month, something like 30 euros a month. A tenth is quite limited. If you want to test it, it's very instant. It goes fast to 30, right? - Yes, for sure. That 30 is practically unlimited. A limited number of fast hours. You develop a page, then 30 seconds, a minute, something like that. And for the unlimited, it takes two and a half minutes. So you have something like that. - You also pay for the speed. Practically unlimited, so you have a few fast hours and unlimited slow. And the difference is a minute or two minutes. So that's too confusing, because you don't know how much you need to pay. What can I do for that money, for that 30 euros? - Make pictures. Make a lot of pictures. - Yes, that's my name. And the convenience of all those different companies... ...is all the same with the people of 20 euros. The Chatchapati is 20 euros. What Chatchapati? - If you make the Audi over 20 euros. Yes, you want to tell each other that. And Dali, do you like that? - Dali is context-wise. Because there is a very big language model behind it. You can make a very good storyboard, because if you say... ...he has to stand at the left side, he has to wear orange, I don't know. Then he listens better to which other model at the moment. Because the Chatchapati integration gives a lot of world knowledge, you know? And logically, it's a little more behind it. But it's a green market, so in terms of design, you don't have many tools. You can also change the atmosphere very difficult. Everything seems a bit airbrushed. It's all a bit... It's not a core business. Sometimes you say, "I want this picture." And it's in, you know, where I used to live, a time in Elburg. And then you see that he also takes something specific from Elburg. But then it's also... For example, Elburg is written very well in this word. So that doesn't make sense. In general, of those models, the more specific it is, the less correct it is. So it's not a list. So you can make a picture for Amsterdam. You can maybe recognize the atmosphere, but you can't go there. And the language is also very specific. The difference is an R and a K. There's a corner up there. But that's very... That's difficult for you. And you don't do that with Journey, per se. Flux is in there very well, there's another new one in the language. But those are the new steps that are being taken now. I get it. Just give us a brief summary of what the listeners are talking about. With Journey? -Yes, now we're taking a step forward. I would like to go into the development for a new week designer. How can I use that via Chatchapati and Copay to make more Journey? And your eyes open for when the revolution of layout and design is going on. Because this isn't really working yet. Okay, well, these listeners can definitely talk about this. Do you doubt it? -I have a question for you, Gerwalt. I'm asking myself, is there a lot of work, or is there a lot of competition in this industry? Do you have a lot of work? Well, maybe that's very personal. Yes, you do have a lot of work. -Well, yes. What are the types of tasks you have to do? I've never really sat down in an assignment situation. I'm not the type of person who's been walking around with his map, so I'm always a bit... So I'm working on it. I'm working on it very well at the moment. Everyone is interested in the latest tech. It's also said that AI takes over your work, but especially in design, that your work is being taken over by someone who uses AI. There's no one behind it who does that. So I can invite you to jump in. It's all pretty new. It's all good to do interviews, to learn. It's not as difficult as learning programming, for example. Yes, someone else... -Is there a lot of work then? Do you have a lot of work now? And do you want to get rid of it? That's the question. My work is now in dosage, and there's enough people in graphic countries... ...who earn their bread with graphic work. And building that up, maybe even start something for yourself, that's getting easier. Look, Disney started a whole studio with a couple of hundred people in it. At this point I had a story in my head. So now you're Stephen King. And you're not... You don't get anything from your... ...from your iron down. You have to make a really cool book. But a book is brought back to 30%. And you know a club to collect things you used to call a rock group like Queen. And he's good in the picture, and he's good. You can set up a whole production within a quarter. So you could say that the band of the future... ...maybe is a good literary person with a good artist, with a good form... ...with a good marketer, who can just make a lot of games. It's all a bit within reach, right? It's a bit more within reach. First you had to be very specialized in that, to learn through it. And now it's all about democracy. But I can also say that there's always more competition. And what's your USP? Why do you have to put in so much effort? Well, I've focused more on dosing at the moment. And I'm doing my own shoots, and I like to deal with people... ...with psychology, with creativity, with processes, and so on. That's my niche at the moment. But now you have a lot more work to do, because everyone wants this. And I'm coming to you to ask questions like, "Lear my journey?" "Lear how I have to promote?" It's such a new field of expertise. So there's a world-wide open, if I'm not mistaken. It's cool, isn't it? There are a lot of people like you... ...who are already in the art department, but also... ...and I see you as an early adopter, who knows everything. I do, but there aren't that many people. I do. I have a few meetings, for sure. -Are you in a club? -No, not yet. There are a lot of funny artists on an island. And co-creation is something from the industry. The industry has learned from the artists, I'd say. It's a bit weird. They're sitting in their own... ...and I'd like to build something with a group of people. But I just have to gather them for you. I get it. Well, I think we've already arrived at the battle. So that's why we're here. -That's true, yes. We always have that kind of thing, where we say... ...that we're very focused on what's going on and what's going on here. We also learn a lot from it, because we're more involved in online marketing. When it comes to personalization, we've had Eddie before. I'm totally into that element. It's not about email marketing. I've always thought, "This isn't my field, but I find it boring." And I think I've listened to it well. But you don't know that. So we're going to ask those questions. I don't know if you have something in your mind before you say... ..."Hey, can I test it for a while?" Or do you have a good life? When I'm a co-op player, I'm more of a player versus player. Of course we knew that. How did we know that? So I'm going to ask you a different question. You have this conversation in your head now. What questions or future prospects do you have? You're going to ask both of them, short. I can reflect on what you took with you in the conversation. If I'm more interesting, then I'll tell you if you did the right thing. What future prospects do we have about your field, about this field? How do you see it from the conversation? Maybe you have a question. - A good question. Absolutely. - A good question. And also the takeaways that you've already heard. Let me put it this way. In my head, the advantage thing, or what I think of as an artist... ...what you said, one piece is unique. And that's what it has to be. And that's what you're dealing with. And if mass production, which is the opposite of that... ...it will become less unique and lose its value. Well, art... - But I've learned that too. ...is something of value to me. Art is value, so you don't want a mass-example. It's exclusive. - It's an exclusive piece in your house. And A.I., perhaps another advantage of that... ...that makes it easier to access, so less exclusive... ...is just not true. It can be steered through, and go on and on... ...and get other ideas, by getting a kind of mixture or a blend. Sure. - That's what it is. A wheel. - And a wheel. If I'm allowed to enter there, I think people who didn't expect... ...that they could be creative or artistic would suddenly be called up with A.I. That's it. - Yes. That's what you can think of as soon as possible. And you're a bit savvy. You want to do things. And the production method, which is becoming easier and easier... ...we're not 3D printers, that's still going on for a while. But they also wanted a real robot, a real robot... ...that would last a long time as a middle-class car. A small company can't buy a middle-class car. So they can build things with their own hands in a short time. So there's a lot of possibilities. It's going to explode. And if you have a nice idea, and you need it in the studio, you can do it yourself. And the object you have in your room... ...is only with your photo on the wall or something, you know? So all of a sudden you can... - It's contagious. It's all going on. - And that's just going on. How is it with authors' rights? You're making something on AI... ...with the help of AI. And it's a real Gerwaltsma. A real one. - And it's sold, and it has a certain value. And it's being copied at some point. How are the rules? The copy is punishable, of course. I have to have a copy right first. In Japan, I believe, everything that's done by AI is copyrighted. That's problematic. America... I don't think it's going well in Europe yet, because it was half done. In America, I think it's very intelligent... ...that if a person has worked on it, and how many questions are still in the air... ...then you can copy it, so someone has to have worked on it. For at least an hour or so. - Someone has to work on it. Yes, but someone has to sit down and then you can copy it, and I think that's good. It's a grey area, and I think there are a lot of good opportunities for the lawyers. Yes, certainly. - It's all going on again. And it's a nice new subject for your podcast, I think. No, it's completely new, because all the old structures... The rules and all that. - Exactly, that's what I can imagine. Gerwart, do we get a point or...? Yes, I hear that. Everyone is creative. Sure. - No, no, we're together. But your approach. - You don't want to share, do you? Normally, you don't ask questions with these points. Yes, it sounds like everyone did a good job in the '90s. But it was a nice approach, so I think you all have a good point. Yes, I agree. It was also a fun chat. But it was also the application of the question, so it's just... Wonderful. - Yes, wonderful. I'm really inspired, I really like it. You know so much of all the tools, and you use them, and you follow them. You know all the latest things, and how much enthusiasm... Of course, that's what we see when we walk here. And when we're the artists, how much enthusiasm... But literally, you're interested. It's beautiful, if you create it yourself. And in the autumn, the course of Chatchapity and Creativity comes with Chatchapity. Yes, tell us a bit. Can you tell us a bit about Chatchapity? Yes, short and long. - Yes, short and long. If people want to train with you, what do you do? For AI, I have a picture here, so how do you do it with mid-journey, two-day? How do you create a nice, creative picture with it? How can you use it? And now I'm a Chatchapity expert. So we all know what the limitations are, and how can you deal with it? Well, Hint, it will stay a bit... With a calm heart, but things will stay calm, but we can do it better. And creativity with Chatchapity, so how can you do it longer? A bit of research, make new plans. There's something about brainstorming and mind-mapping. It's not that you can all mind-map with AI. It's more about what you want to do with AI, you have to say. To create the process. - Yes. Is it brainstorming, is it research, is it making pictures? Yes, and then you can just... There are two free courses that I'm going to give you. Check. - Very nice, Gerweld. I want to thank you once again for coming to the studio. It's very nice. - And for a look at your work field. It's very interesting. Well, let's take a look at your next shirt. Yes, okay. - It's a bit of an inspiration today, with blue-green. Enough about that, thank you. - I have no idea what I'm saying. Thank you very much. - See you next time.