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All of our episodes available on Netflix. A lot of football for you midweek. I'm going to do an AFC North Quarterly report running through what I think of all four teams, including one investment letter. We've got Ross Tucker, who's had a lot of AFC teams on his CBS schedule. He's going to share with us what he has learned in meeting with a bunch of these teams. A little AFC power rankings for our guide, also getting ready for Eagles in Carolina and Joe Sexton, who is both the star and producer of an HBO documentary called A Killer Story. We all watched it. We loved it and Joe jumped on. And life advice. Football has a way of turning one game into a full week of conversation. A Draft Kings keeps you close to all of it. The Draft Kings Sports app is now live in all 50 states. That means from Texas to California to Florida, every fan is in on the excitement. Follow teams you love. Keep up with the biggest games and experience the excitement of football all week long. 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Nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability. I'm calling on NFL Quarterly reports even though we're through week five. So I was going to do 32 after four weeks and then 32 again. So we'll just keep it rolling here. Let's take a look at the AFC North. Is it really good or is it playing the NFC South and AFC South in their scheduling matchup? So that's eight games against teams in divisions where six of these teams have a negative point differential through five weeks and seven if you want to go by say ESPN's power rankings. I was looking at them today. They're fairly reasonable. They have seven of the eight teams in those other two divisions in their bottom 13 of their power rankings. So we start with Baltimore who's the number two seed in the AFC today and that's a Lamar going down a half of the Tennessee win. They are number four in offense yards for play. They're 15th in opponents yards per play defensively but they've got the second highest QB rating cumulative when you include huntly playing behind Lamar in this and that's only behind San Francisco. They don't throw picks and they've completed 73% of their passes as a team and Lamar was on pace to have a better rushing season than last year. So we'll see post this injury because he should be good to go this week if it's still on the same track. So that was always an important part of it because we talked about under center. We talked about design runs as opposed to freelance runs. Well, whatever it was because it certainly was under center a ton in that first Colts game. They have done a good job of protecting Lamar. Lamar has been really efficient when he's played. They're completing all these passes and despite the old line trouble, especially at center that we kept hearing about. I mean, it's just such a shocking situation for how deep they've had to go to find anybody to snap the football. The offense has not been an issue whatsoever. But the defense, again, when we talked about this team during the summer, it was like there's a lot of assumptions about the soul line. There's a lot of assumptions about this defense that I'm not sure are like things that we should just be doing. But a lot of the projections for them being the favorites in the AFC had a lot to do with the schedule and we're seeing a play out throughout the division. Lamar, Jalen Hertz, Lamar, stupid TV graphic. I don't really know what it would be right now unless this team, because I think they're going to put together an insane regular season record. And I'm still not sure that I'm going to think of them. If Jacksonville stays on this pace, if Kansas City, although with Thornton going down, you know, because it felt like we were starting to see the old Mahomes even though the numbers were told you we still haven't seen the old Mahomes in a really long time on some of the deep shot stuff. It's just kind of like how much of a favorite would they would, how much of a favorite would they be with a regular season record. And then I think the only possibility for the stupid TV graphic would be something that I've seen in the past. It's like, well, why is Lamar criticized for his playoffs and Josh Allen isn't criticized for his when neither have made it to a Super Bowl? When in fact, Josh Allen has been a far superior quarterback in the playoffs than Lamar has. So that one always kind of drives me crazy. So look, it looks like this team's going to win 12 or 13 games. And I think it's because of the schedule. But I don't know that I'm ever going to feel like they're the AFC favorites based on the defense and what I've seen at this point, which may be wrong, right? It could be completely wrong. But you know, if they split and compete, who knows, maybe they get both at Buffalo against Jacksonville, week eight, nine could change my mind because I just doesn't feel like they're the favorites right now in the AFC even though I think they may end up being the number one seed, Cleveland, three and two, but out of the playoffs. This is, by the way, since then he's the last in this division based on the tiebreakers. So the schedule, when they played Jacksonville week one and got destroyed, we were like, okay, yep, this makes it sense. And then there's, I'll have this. I don't know if it happens to you, but there'll be kind of this lingering first impression that a team will make on you. And then it takes you a couple of weeks, even though you're paying attention to them. And I have them up like I'm watching them, right? I watched, I think the entire second half of Jets, Cleveland because it was close this past weekend. But when you have a first impression and no expectations, the first impression being as bad as the Browns against Jags were, you're just like, yeah, okay, I've got it. Like I'm probably not going to have to watch my time this year. I don't have to worry about them. And now they're three and two and they very well could have been four and one. If there weren't a million fumbles in that Jets game, nine total fumbles in that game. And they were driving twice in the fourth quarter. They were leading that game, 1210. They got to touch down the fourth quarter and then they had two drives where they were down where they actually fumbled both times and lost those fumbles. So watching that Jets game, I'm like, they're going to be four and one. Dishon Watson. This is the best season in Cleveland. He's had five of them. This is the best one. So cool. He's also 21st in QBR. The offense is 27th in EPA. The defense is 15th. Granted, they're missing their big guy up front. I do like a lot of this roster. But the one when we know thing, I think we already know. I think we know what this team is and what they are not. They've had game winning drives in the fourth quarters against Tampa, against Carolina, against Pittsburgh. You saw the graphic popping up in that Jets game. You're like, are they going to do this four straight weeks where they have a fourth quarter drive to come out when this game? I just don't know how sustainable that is unless you're the 25 Broncos. But I, I don't think I need to run through the schedule here and be like, well, if the record, I think we know exactly what's happening with this team. Dishon Watson or Jalen Hertz, we'll go Hertz. Stupid TV graphic. I'm actually going to call this impressive TV graphic. The Shadour Army, we've not heard from them. And he has incredible PR, the way the people that were supportive of him talked about you were Sanders last season. Like they, there best be another feed that they're watching that I don't have access to. What is that subscription plan? Which NFL Sunday ticket packages that Monday ticket? What is it? Because the way they would talk about him was not, I thought a representation, a fair representation of how he was actually playing. And Granny's a rookie. It wasn't a great team. It wasn't a great spot for me to be in, but the Shadour Army is not been deployed at all through the first month plus of the 26 season. Investors letter. We have one for the Browns. Deer investors, Nico Harris and one said that fans were finally beginning to see the vision after his approach led to Dallas winning the lottery despite a 1.8% chance to land Cooper flagged. Much like the first explorers, you have to leave the port of uncertainty towards the horizon of the unknown. To Sean Watson is on pace to play more games this season than any in his career, 17 by our projections. A five year hold speaks to our patience in the ever changing tides of asset management. The Pittsburgh Steelers at three and two, the paths blow out in week two kind of felt like a hey this broad just thing isn't going to work.
I can't believe he was able to walk off the field. I mean, it's just the beating of a game. However, they put a 411 yards against Cincinnati's defense, a Cincinnati defense that I know at one point this season, particularly after the Houston win. You're like, you know what? There's defense, six new pieces, like real guys, starters. This is maybe a revamped group. All Cincinnati has to do is be just average, just slightly above average. With this offense, you would think to be a competitive team in the AFC and that felt like a win there. And now we're looking at Cincinnati's defense a little bit differently, which I'll get to here as the last team in this division. But Pittsburgh turns this thing around after that Pats debacle and they are chucking the football. Okay? 'Cause then you're like, well, is it a good offense this year? 'Cause there's underlining numbers that tell you they're not a good offense. They're throwing at a million times. Rodgers is in ninth and pass attempts. He's had games where he's throwing at 39, 40 and 40 times. But they don't convert third downs or 28th. The offense is 23rd in EPA. You look at the defense and you're like, all right, well, is that better? It's the Steelers, right? Not really. The interline numbers there aren't great. Nineteenth in EPA, 18th in the opponents yard for play. The pass rush winery is one of the worst three in the league, which kind of shocked me. The online stuff has been pretty good so far. But they very well could be on their way to a six and two start. They're at Tampa, New Orleans at home, Cleveland at home. The next three. And then a perfect buy week set up. But then here's the schedule, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Denver, Houston, Jacksonville, Baltimore. They could be six and two and end up seven and eight. And then your stupid TV graphic would be what went wrong. Well, the schedule went wrong. 'Cause I don't think this is a really good football team. And I don't know that you think that either. Herz or Rodgers, we'll go Herz again. Rodgers is 22nd in QBR. So trying to figure out like, especially when it's only four or five games, hey, we're three and one. And it's like, you know, a one position game went your way. And that's not going to happen if you're not really good all season long. But their defense in the red zone, red zone touchdown percentage against them. They're sixth. So if you can keep that number in the top 10, you can have a lot of numbers we don't like and still put up a decent record. And that kind of feels where the Steelers are right now. Cincinnati, last based on the tie breakers. So you have Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati, all three and two records is the eight, nine, and 10 seed in the AOC seating. So technically out of it today. And by the way, I'm more mad that Denver's three and two. This is a stupid segment. I would do it if I had no ideas maybe that day. But which three and two team are you most mad that they're three and two? For me, it would be the Denver Broncos. So I'm not focusing here on the AOC South. It's just that look, all these teams are the last place team. In this division, it's probably going to have a pretty good record based on the thing that I told you about their NFC matchup and their AFC matchup. So Cincinnati's 10th on offense. There's 17th on defense. So that number's been slipping here. Opponents yards per play is 24th. They cannot stop the run. But there's something interesting that's happening with them. They're 28th and opponents yards per carry. But I was reading more about this specifically this morning. And Dexter Lawrence, who they bring over, the stuff rate stuff is really good. But teams are now running away from him. And they're eating on the perimeter. And they're eating against the secondary that's been a disaster and tackling. We always talk explosive plays. Cincinnati's allowed 21 runs of 10 or more yards, which is worse than the NFL. Look at these run totals the last couple of weeks. Pittsburgh figured some stuff out. They ran it for 138. Jacksonville ran it for 111. Miami ran for 217 yards against his Bengals defense. And again, I'm telling you, there are numbers that tell you Dexter Lawrence is doing what he's asked to do. But if you look out on the secondary, these guys have to be better. If Cincinnati struggles, or if you were to say, like, hey, Cincinnati's in the last, and then it always comes back to the quarterback, and I will admit, there are times with Borough, where I'm like, am I being too nice about Borough? Am I having weeks where I'm like, hey, maybe he's not as good because he made it super bowl. He was really young, but he seems to get more of like, you know, when you have that first, again, we talk about it with teams in a season, but when you're a quarterback and you immediately have success granted it and win the super bowl, but you get there, there's, you don't have to deal with a lot of the shit that the other really good quarterbacks have to deal with. Or it's like, oh, it's your six, it's your seven. The guy was so good, how come he's not in a super bowl? Sometimes it is the quarterbacks fault. Sometimes it's circumstance. We talk about this all the time with NBA stars. But with Borough, having that, there'll be times where I'm like, is he actually having a worse stretch here? But because we've kind of accepted that he's one of the four or five best, he's getting more of a pass. And the thing is, like, he just kind of break through the whole thing and go, no, he's just really that good. I mean, every number here is great again. All of his numbers across the board are great. His sack percentage is down, which is a really good sign because the pressure rate on his dropbacks, right around 20%, this season is right in line with where he is throughout his career when it feels like, of the top guys, it feels like he's generally since he's ended the league. It seems like guys are always getting after more, always talking about their offensive line. But the sack rate being down is a good thing here. Herzr Borough, pretty clear, will go Borough. When will we know? Well, it might be this week, because they're at Baltimore. Lamar is going to play. But then, if it's a clean game, they're competitive if they were to win it. I think all of us are going to be going, look, since then he's the second best team in this division, despite the fact that the tiebreakers are last today, which really isn't that important. But the rest of the schedule, after this Baltimore game, Tennessee, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, at home, Washington, New Orleans, at Cleveland, they are poised, even if this defense isn't even above average, right? They are poised to go on a run. Some decisions you make in the moment. Future you is not going to be happy about it. And a lot of the time, you don't realize it until it's too late. That's true with your car, too. What you put in your tank today shows up later in how your engine performs. That's why I've been driving with Shelby Power Nitro Plus. It's designed to help provide more protection for a longer-lasting engine and is engineered to help keep it running like new. Choosing the right fuel is vital. It's taking care of your engine now, so it keeps showing up later. So do future you a favor. Get Shelby Power Nitro Plus engine performance that lasts. Ross Tucker, a CBS in the Ross Tucker football podcast. We finally got this guy. He's been too busy. He's been, dude, I always thought you were good. I think you've taken it to another level this season. I really enjoy you and I ain't going to broadcast. Oh man, Ryan, that means more than you know, especially coming from you. I don't think I ever told you this, but there was a few years where I was doing a hundred studio days a year for NBC Sports Network in Stanford, Connecticut. And so when I would drive from Pennsylvania to Connecticut, I would listen to you and SVP and then you and Danny. The whole drive, like the whole, it was like 10 to one, it was you the whole time. So big fan, it's funny. You know, I realize this now having a podcast or when I used to have my serious XM show. When you listen to somebody like every day, you really start to feel like you know them or like you're a friend of them and I realize that he doesn't even know who I am. It's like my father-in-law, when I used to have this serious XM show, I wouldn't talk to him like a month. And I'd be like, "Hey, how are you?" He's like, "I'm like, we haven't talked to him forever." He's like, "Oh yeah, 'cause he listened to me every morning." So he didn't realize that, but no, it's awesome. It's been so much fun. I'm the type of person that kind of love any game I'm doing, so I don't really feel that different from when I was doing the Army games or the Ivy League games, but it's very cool that more people are watching and more people are texting me and more people are excited about it and certainly doing bigger games is awesome. But I'm happy to do any game. I love doing any game. And I think, hopefully, the people can tell when I'm doing it. I thought the Igminosan thing, 'cause I had said that on the podcast, where you pointed out, you're like, you know, his third year at Ohio State, like he was kind of known for getting a little behind the play and then getting back into it and then leading to a penalty. And I was like, man, he's doing his, you know, like it's just not everybody's gonna know that. And the only reason I ran him later, remember it, 'cause I remember he was like, sort of on the radar as a pro. And I was like, this guy just grabs everybody all the time. 16 penalties and I'm like, oh my God, he had it. So that was sort of a nerd prep moment for me during the Bill's Paths game where you're talking about him. And I was like, that's exactly, I was like, that's perfect. 'Cause there's just so many people on Sunday who have no idea who he is, which is totally understandable, would never know about his penalty background. And I was like, that's the little extra stuff that Ross does. So this has just turned into two minutes, three minutes of us just complimenting each other. So let's talk some football. (laughing) Well, I will say, it's funny. Like two things, you'll appreciate this. Having a daily NFL podcast, you're round. And so I feel like I have like a built-in advantage, right? I think, you know, like I'm in it every day. I think some other guys may be like, I don't know what they do in the off season, but for me, there is no off season. And then I can't remember the last time Ryan, I did between TV and radio less than 30 games in a year. So it's like, I think there's two advantages. One is I'm talking about it every day, regardless. And number two, say anything else in life. Like if you do something that many times, it would be weird if you didn't start to get better at it. You know, I guess I have gotten better because I do it so much.
Yeah, it's true because I was prepping for an NBA preview in my basketball my NBA brain had been turned off for a couple of months and there was a player on the depth chart and I was like talking to somebody I go I didn't know who that was and I was like horrified and then I go out you know you're kind of in the middle of some other things right now. Let's let's talk about Monday's game because I hate to say this to an old lineman because I'm always looking for like is there anything here that tells me about a matchup problem or a matchup advantage or is there something here that's going to teach me about the rest of the season you know the little things. I feel like that game is like the perfect example of throw all that shit out because when it's too heavyweight quarterbacks that decide that they're going to crank up their risk level then almost anything is possible and sure the Rams probably walk away from that one thing and they're supposed to get it they cut me this after the miskick and everything else but that was that was so much fun and kind of unfortunately a reminder of half the league of like this is what you'll never get to experience on. It's such a good point and I mean so many things jump out to me about that game and probably Josh Allen in particular like with his style of play the fact that he has now started 127 straight games is just bananas. I mean and I don't know what it is about his running style. He just looks kind of more reckless and it looks like more entertaining and fun like when the marjacks and runs he's like smooth. When Josh Allen runs the whole time I feel like he's like oh you know like almost like he's out of control which interestingly probably a big reason why the Patriots beat them the week before is I think I said during the game there was two minutes left and Josh Allen had zero rushing zero and then the very next game he goes well over 100 against the Rams. I think he's the most entertaining player in the sport thoroughly enjoy doing his games. Now there's some pros and cons of that we saw it with the interception you threw at the end of the first half. We certainly saw it in the game I did against New England where I've never even seen a quarterback attempt the backwards pass like that out of the end zone. I still wish Vinavitch had told us why it was not you know intentional grounding and then he ends the game when all they need is a fuel goal with a really bad interception. So but I was thinking about it if you think about that game and then you go back the loss and then you go back to the Broncos playoff loss even with the other issues the bills have even with their defense not playing quite as well. If Josh Allen just doesn't turn it over there's a really good chance they're going to win. You go back to that Denver game in particular the fumble at the end of the first half in the divisional round that was absolute killer. If he can get through a game without having a brain fart or two or whatever you want to call it there's a really good chance they're going to win. Certainly I guess it didn't end up hurting them but just the style of some of his interceptions like the one at the end of the first half against the Rams. Those are the ones he just has to find a way to avoid. I just don't know. He's not going to be able to do it over the course of the season but if you could do it in three or four playoff game run they're probably going to win those games. Yeah the Denver stuff. I feel like he's eliminated more of these things like this used to be part of the Allen experience and I talked about that throw on the game that you had against the WINGLIN I go it really was sort of out of character I felt like from that reminded me like younger Josh Allen because you're like second down and I may even just nail those like don't need it. I don't know if you said it or he said it but it was like you just don't need that you don't need that at that spot. I was like man that's what he kind of used to do and then I remember there was like that weird red zone turnover situation he had a few years back but then it was like he's actually really hurt on this one so then when it came back to the Denver mistake I'm like have you watched this team this year like he's the only reason they're there. He's the only reason they're there so I don't I may I wasn't as down on him with a Denver thing but yeah you could argue between the Rams thing in the end of the Patriots thing like is there is there any part of him where you're going like you're expecting some sort of just disastrous mistake. I'm not there I used to feel that way about him and I'm not there right now even if we've had a couple examples of it because like look I look at I don't care what the Rams record is the list is not very long of teams that can fly across the country and then go in there and beat them especially when staffer starts to cook going like I've got a I we need a touchdown and when he missed the throw in the back of the end zone he was so mad because he knew he had it and that's why he was so excited when he got to touchdown because it was like I just did that like I just marches all the way down there after Alan's running around like a crazy person and I brought his right back down but going over time the whole thing I just don't think there's many people that in this league that could do what Alan did so I'm willing to accept a couple of those mistakes that I still don't think are characteristic of the 2.0 Josh Allen totally great and I would say you know I tweeted this at Ross Tucker and I felt during the game and I guess a lot of fans of other teams I'm sure didn't love it but I would sign up for that Super Bowl right now I always sign up for a Bill's Ram Super Bowl just because of everything you said about Matthew Stafford and Josh Allen and just how entertaining they are and you really do feel like whoever has the ball last is going to win which is such a cliche but with those two guys it certainly feels that way I guess my point about Josh would be in four games right like I think there's a decent chance in a three or four game playoff run one of those games he's gonna have a big mistake or two that might cost him he's cut down on it significantly it's not like where you're expecting it every game but it's still there and he knows it and he's trying our but I think he gets so caught up and it because you know I did the first game of the year Bill's Texans and I felt like last year in the postseason Stroud was trying to do too much and that's why he had all those turnovers so I asked Josh how he kind of got rid of that you know in the production meeting I said how did you move on from that and he says his answer was he's just awesome I don't even around him he's just awesome he's like yeah I still am not sure I've totally gotten rid of it as much as I want to but I think I've just done a better job of knowing when to say when and realizing you can't always make a play because that's a real thing with younger players and something I think Stroud and other guys kind of have to figure out I would rather that though I would rather the guy can make a lot of plays and at times early in his career tries to make too many as opposed to the guy that's super conservative early and not going to make the plays I think it's really hard to go to the Super Bowl and win it if you're just going to play you better be super good everywhere else and on defense if you're going to play conservative ball at that position okay you brought up one of my favorite thing to do with you guys production meetings because they can be very rewarding even if the coach or the players aren't directly telling you exactly what you want to hear but you can you can put a lot together right especially if you have a really good team that wants to work with the broadcast crew prior to that New England win at Buffalo what sense did you get about where May was and then where it's going because that at this point has kind of been like the defining turnaround of like yeah this is the guy that was second in MVP last year did you pick up on anything and prepping for that game that makes you think like yeah this all makes sense based on what either he was saying or what the coaches were saying well it's funny because it was actually the day before so typically and some of your audience probably knows this but typically you go to the home teams practice on Friday and then you meet with the players and coaches after their practice Friday Friday night you'll have like a night like whatever the one of the best restaurants is in that city that's the night you do it and then Saturday's kind of weird because you're just kind of hanging around watching college football until the away team gets to their hotel then you go to their hotel meet with them then you have your production meetings that night and then the next morning's the game I couldn't believe it Ryan I'm sure you know it sounds like you watch the games you picked up on it Joe Brady and Josh Allen were not like thrilled that Christian Gonzalez was ruled out that that was like one of the most telling things I've ever I've ever gotten at a production meeting because the Patriot it come out that they were ruled out and they just gotten off the practice field and then the news just broke so then we tell them about it and and Joe Brady's like yeah because imagine spending all this time Monday and Tuesday and then practicing Wednesday, Thursday, Friday with the idea that you think this guy was probably the best corner in the league is going to be out there and there's not better than he's not B.J. Moore he's not better than Sir Tann I'm sorry I can't let that happen I I think they're both really good I think they're both really really good but arguably let's put that one but it totally changed everything that the bills were expecting for that game but it was already Friday afternoon Saturday all you have is a walkthrough so you know Brady was clearly not happy about it and Josh Allen was just like it's a lot of unknown it's a lot of unknown they really didn't know what they were going to get them from the Patriots whereas I think they thought they had a really good plan what they were going to get them from the Patriots whereas I I think they thought they had a really good plan when they were going to go.
As for your question about the Patriots, I think I probably got more from my McDaniel's conversation. And I forget about Raible. He doesn't really say anything. Even though we were teammates or whatever. Raible's not gonna tell you much at all. I really like Drake May. It feels like Drake May went to like, he's got like a combo Eli Manning, Philip Rivers style to him. Like you can tell he's been kind of trained up. He's got like the Philip Rivers Southern, but then Eli Man, you know, hey, Ross, how are you? You know, doesn't tell you that much, but there's sort of a quiet confidence. But he was really what I liked about Drake May is he was very clear that it was mainly his fault. And that he because I said to him, I said, you know, I know you're a smart kid. Like I know it. So when you throw some of these picks like in the end zone to the Jags, what what is happening there? Like what like you just threw the ball right to Travis Hunter? Like I wasn't a quarterback, explain that to me. And he's like, you know, when you're struggling and you're not putting the points up, it's just like I want to try to score a touchdown so bad because the one to Mac Collins in the first game against Seattle, the one and week three to Hunter, like inexplicably bad. And he knows it. And it's almost like you think of any aspect in your life where you're like, I know I shouldn't eat this ice cream right now at nine o'clock or whatever, but I just want it so bad that was sort of how Drake explained it. Metangles though was the key, Ryan. Metangles to listen. First of all, AJ Brown's not out there. So he's throwing us some new guys, you know, and maybe the rapport isn't quite there yet with Romeo dobs. It's going to take some time. And Metangles goes to the Bella check school of thought that nowadays since he's guys don't play in the preseason, September is really where you figure out kind of what you have. And every year is a new year. And also September is when the quarterback gets more used to some of the new pieces, they get on the same page. And then that kind of played out, you know, during the game, dobs had a better game. Drake may look more comfortable throwing it to him. This effedinchism guy is like making incredible plays, which is one of the things I love about the NFL. I think the next thing they'll be interesting is just to see where his rapport is with AJ Brown, when AJ Brown's back. Cause that's another thing. It felt like they kind of designed the whole offense and training camp to go through AJ. And all of a sudden you don't have him. So then every receiver is bumped up to a role that they probably shouldn't really be in dobs is probably a great number to not really number one. And so they've kind of figured it out. Obviously over the last couple of weeks, it looks like it looks like he's back and they're back. I know it can feel like, you know, especially in the NFL where you go, okay, how much real separation is there? Like could you sit here and say, hey, definitively Jacksonville is the absolute favorite in the AFC. Like you've had Jacksonville. You've had Buffalo a couple of times. You've had New England. I don't think you've had KC. I know that you've done Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Would you feel comfortable? Cause I think you do this on your podcast. But like do you look at the AFC right now going like, Hey, I know right now as a week five, this is who I think is the best. And then this is kind of the order of these other supposed contenders. I know I think Kansas City is good, even though I haven't done one of their games. I just, for them to be able to run the ball like this changes the situation significantly. I am a huge Jacksonville guy and I was very surprised at how they played Sunday in London. I thought there was a chance they would blow the Eagles out. And I had said I do a lot of stuff. Philly media being from the area. I actually thought Ryan that you could have made the argument that that was the best regular season win for Nick Sireani. If the Eagles had closed it out those last eight seconds. I mean, think about this for a second. They were down their top three running backs after Shipley got hurt during the game. They're down by far their best receiver. Devante Smith. They had two kids, Willie Lampton and left guard Jake Majors at center, making the first starts of their lives. Actually their first NFL action of their lives. At Wright Tackle, Mark Helbell, or Rookie was making his second start. They had other injuries as well on the defense side of the ball. I think Jacksonville is one of the five best teams. I think Jacksonville is awesome. That game gave me a little bit of pause. I still feel really good about Trevor Lawrence. I still feel really good about Parker Washington, who people will realize over the course of the year is like an absolute star player. The way the Eagles like Jalen Carter and beat up the Jags O line a little bit, that I was not expecting it. I mean, Jalen Carter, like they had their way with them. So that's one that gave me a little bit of pause. But I still think right now it's New England, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Kansas City. I got to see the Ravens when Lamar is back. But I think those are the teams I expect to be in it at the end. I'm not as bullish on the bangles or the Steelers right now. Well, I did their game up to see a little bit more from them moving forward. But if I had to pick like the divisional round right now, it would be Bill's chiefs, Jags Patriots. I do think the Ravens will be in the mix as well. I just kind of want to see them a little bit more with Lamar in this offense. Has anybody written you any kind of letter of apologizing that you've had to watch Denver on offense twice this year? And that's two wins, by the way. That's two Denver wins. Yeah, that's a weird thing because you know, when there's new offenses or new schemes, right? So like the Bill's defense, I tend there's a new coordinator that I can understand. I tend there's a lot of new moving pieces. I can understand. Denver's pretty much the same. Now I know Davis Webb was calling the plays the first four weeks. And I know that Waddle is a new receiver. But other than that, this is like the same group for Denver. I kind of thought they would hit the ground running. They are not. They are not at all. They can I can I interrupt you just a bit on nicks? Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day because I talk with Nate Tyson's awesome every Monday. And I meant to ask him this, but I'm going to ask you, you know, whenever there was a pitcher called up, you know, we get really excited, right? And they might get like through two or three games and you're going like, look, this guy's striking out so many guys, you know, he's got two wins, no decision, whatever. You just get really excited because it's new. We always get excited about that. And then it's like the second time through the division or something. And there starts to be like the hardest thing I think for hitters, especially when there's no in that heart is, what does this guy have? Like what? And then it's like, well, he may not be the most talented, but I have no idea what he is. I'm wondering if there's any correlation to like nicks tape to bow nicks tape out after two seasons where other defenses are going, Hey, there's a bunch of stuff we have. We don't have to defend here with him. And if we focus on these parts now that we have this much tape on him, I don't know, it's a theory. I'm just wondering if there's anything to quarterbacks getting figured out in this league once they've made the rounds a couple times. Well, there's no question. And I don't even think it's, I think it's a year to year thing. And that's one thing speaking of production meetings that McDaniel said said, he said, listen, when, when you win, people are going to study you all off season and they're going to try to make you win differently. So how did the Patriots win last year? They won with a lot of plays down the field. It was a lot of big explosive plays. They went against a lot of single high coverage, which is just one safety middle of the field because teams were not really overly concerned about the Patriots receivers last year, especially deep, and they thought they needed to stop the run. Well, they realized after watching them and after watching what the teams in the playoffs did, they said, Oh, no, no, like they're a big playoff fence. They're an explosive down the field offense. We need to go to deep safeties. So it's taking a little bit of time for the Patriots to figure that out. That's kind of where the Broncos are. You know, their running game and their O line had been so productive that people felt like, and they didn't really have a deep threat at receiver. So people felt like you had to stack the box. People felt like we don't really need to have two deep safeties. We just can't let this O line run us over. Well, what's happening this year is I think A, because of Waddle, they don't want to get beat over the top by a Waddle, but they're not really being, they're not really running the ball that effectively against these two deep safety looks. I think the word boneics said when we spoke to him was, you know, they're begging us to run the ball. And it's funny. He, he, I really appreciate him because I asked him some, I thought some really tough questions. And, and he, he, you know, you can tell like the son of a coach. And also you can tell kind of the adversity. He went through it all burn. Cause he just answers it. Cause I was watching last week. And I even like, Orlovski had some clips of open receivers down the field. And both of them.
was not pulling the trigger on it. And so I just said so so bow on some of those like I never played quarterback walk me through it. I just come just picturing you because it's funny because you know it's like hey you're giving up on these plays but how do I ask this in a nice possible way. Hey I'm just a big old dumb ol' I'm and you know so yeah that's that's the way to do it right that's the way to do it. I mean you're an excellent interviewer I've heard it for years so you know why are you not doing this you know it's better to be like explain it to me right and I thought he did a good job so I said are you not seeing those guys or are you seeing them and not pulling the trigger for some reason. And he said it's neither actually like I'm going through my reads and based on my progression this is where it's taking me okay um and then but talking with Davis Webb you know again production meetings Davis Webb seemed to think that maybe there were a couple times where he could have pulled the trigger right so um I don't know what that means I don't know like I don't know if he's going through the reads too fast or too slow or or whatever but I did think that that that's something that they sort of need to figure out it's funny I went back and watched the game I do every week to see what I could do better and there was one where he had Ryan like seven seconds and nobody was open so I'm hitting the talk back button to my producer and I'm like all 22 all 22 nobody open all 22 nobody open which means I want to show that camera angle so I am finishing the call so now like he threw a ball away after like seven seconds but with five seconds left I'm hitting it to my producer Ken Mack saying all 22 nobody open which he knows I want to show you all 22 as the replay we show and then when they get to the point where they're all covered I'm going to show they're all covered well what annoyed me is that we did that as we should afterwards we had a great close-up of bow and he's looking at I think Waddle you couldn't tell but I'm pretty sure it's Waddle and he's pointing Ryan he's pointing down and going go deep go deep and when I went back and looked at it Waddle was even with the corner the safety was middle of the field he should have just taken off and I think bow would have unleashed a bomb but for whatever reason Waddle just ran the comeback route where the corner was already sitting on it and so in my you know how I can be better when I see bow say go deep I wish I would have been able to just say really quickly bow wanted Waddle to take off on that one they missed a chance for a big opportunity so maybe that's an example where if Waddle does what bow wants them to do then they do complete a bomb and nobody's talking about him not pulling the trigger and nobody's saying he's not throwing it deep because they complete a 60-yard pass but what that tells me is whoever's right whoever's wrong that's a good example of them not quite being in sync yet you know they're not quite on the same page there of what should have happened on that play well we'll keep you up at night more having to wake up and play against Seattle's front or Minnesota's front Seattle actually now passes Minnesota after that San Francisco game and past Russia win rate it's a it's a it's a number that Minnesota's been tops in so whatever just jumped up ahead this week I imagine both aren't exactly a ton of fun for an offensive line but but anything in particular about those matchups I would much rather go against Minnesota I'll tell you why I struggled in one-on-one obvious passing down one-on-one protection okay so like for me when I was over when it was one-on-one I had LaRoy Glover or Bryant Young or Richard Seymour I was like oh gosh because I just knew they were more talented than me and like Seymour to me was the best defensive line but I ever played against I thought he was unbelievable if you played another scheme forget the numbers he would have put up but New England's New England back in the day I was much better Ryan with like Blitz pickup seeing seeing the twist seeing the linebacker come like the mental part that was like my best part right like okay this safety rotated these guys are coming this guy's pinching like I please do that please blitz me all day when I'm at center or guard blitz me all day I'll be there I'll pick up the guy it was like going against Leonard Williams or Byron Murphy or going against like legit dudes where I'd be like is there anybody that can help me out there can I get up can I get a B gap insert from the running back and I get some help we play him one time you'll remember this guy Tommy Harris okay from Oklahoma for the Bears like he was hell on wheels dude because he was small too that's the crazy thing about him yeah and I was playing center for the Brown it was a preseason game back when we played in the preseason and I cozy Coleman on the right and Drew's on the left we made a pack that game that no matter what the protection was supposed to be we were gonna help whoever had Tommy we were not gonna let that guy be one-on-one on Tommy because you just knew he had this like hesitation club like this wiggle and so yeah I'd much rather go against Minnesota and try to pick up floor as it blitzes then just have Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy hand me my ass all day I love Byron Murphy I just I just love that like there's a guy you like in college and you go I think he's nasty and then that positions you know just not enough of priority for maybe him to be on the radar as much but that's why I was just so impressed with San Francisco like you'd mentioned hey if you know I forget which game it was oh you were like if Philadelphia were to get that one against Jacksonville maybe that's the most impressive win in the entire season and then I kind of was like without that one being an option Tyson I were talking about it I was like I think at San Francisco through all that adversity on both sides to go up to Seattle have Purdy who has you know there's a real it's not a tendency it's a real thing he is the less of a version of himself against that Seattle team but both teams are making so many mistakes that either team could have pulled that game off but watching like the smooth Shanahan pockets and you know week one against the Rams even though they weren't fully formed with a hurt here and Donald's not playing yet and we're thinking about this new Rams defense and it's like Shanahan must have prepped all week being like well whatever they're going to do they're not going to disrupt us with the pass rush and that's going to make sure like let's just eliminate that and you're watching the Shanahan games week to week and I'm like God he's you know he's just he's so good at this and then somebody like him in that Seattle game and it's like you have whatever plan you want but like Seattle's gonna mess it up and it's also look credit to San Francisco in their pass rush which I think from a personnel standpoint we don't look at the same as some of these other groups and they were fantastic against Seattle in that game and that's without a Bosa and I don't even know William snap count stuff is out of Georgia but like you're kind of waiting for him to get a longer runway of a few weeks of a plan to get back into this yeah three quick thoughts on that number one Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy being the two detackles that are like these immovable objects what I find fascinating about that Byron Murphy is like six foot Leonard Williams like six six so it's like two totally different body types taking on these double teams Byron Murphy gets so low it looks like his knees are gonna touch the ground he's just like that flexible and then Leonard Williams is like Gumby I love watching those guys the Niners pass rush that is the that's probably the single most undervalued resource in the NFL is great position coaches and Chris Couturek the D line coach for the Niners I don't know what they pay him I bet you to a couple million bucks because the value that he creates for that franchise getting these rookies like Halton or getting key on wife to play better than he ever has it's immeasurable you know Stowell and for the Eagles was making a ton of money back in the day they're worth it especially a good old line or D line coach they're worth it and then the Niners they cut every time I watch the Niners this year it reminds me of like my senior year of high school where like all summer whether it was lifting waste for football or open gym or summer league for hoops you're like anytime somebody wasn't all in I bet guys it's senior year like this is our last yet it's senior year I feel like the Niners Mike Evans and Trent Williams and McCaffrey I think like deep down debos Samuel I think they know like this is probably like our last like this is our last to rod this is senior year guys like we're all in and they're playing like it and it's awesome and if they're all healthy you know for January football I think they're the best team and maybe the best team buy a little bit of a margin now if really they have all their guys Bosa and everybody 100% for the playoffs certainly that would be who I would think I have them I've had a number one in the Ross Tucker podcast power rankings for like a month now what fan of what they're doing all right let's end that who's not with the team that's not number one as you mentioned you're close to Philly you've got Philly Carolina this week I loved Carolina's game plan against Detroit in that Sunday night game because I thought it was very clear they go what we're going to do here is we're going to get the ball out like team's can talk about it we're going to get the ball out quick that was as determined to get the ball out quick I think as I've seen for like an entire three hours
You know, there's like we're not going to let Hutchinson beat up on our guy, Bryce Chung, even though it felt like Hutchinson was winning all these reps. And it's like, okay, it doesn't matter. Like the ball's out already. So the Eagles D line, even with their pieces, you know, it's kind of like the three guys that we know, they're missing one of their big edge guys in that in that Jags game there. But none of that is really the story as you know. So is this thing fixable this season for Philadelphia? Well, it depends on how far you want them to go. Do I think they have a chance to win the division? Yeah, I think they're probably still the favorite to win the division. I think right or wrong based on their success over the last five years, playoffs every year, three division championships, two Super Bowls, they won one of them. Their standards really high. Their standards like Super Bowl. I think that's probably unlikely when you think about just the NFC West teams, just Seattle, San Francisco, LA. I think it would take a lot for the Eagles to get back to that point with Lane retiring and trading jergons or all of that stuff. I do think that there's too many good players. You know, I mean, like you're watching a game and even the defense, I'm watching Jalen Carter and then Zach Bond and then Quinnian Mitchell and Cooper DeGene. They just have too many good players. I am fascinated by this matchup for what you just said. I couldn't believe how well Bryce Young is playing when I was watching the tape this week. He is a small guy. He is getting rid of the ball quickly. He's just nifty. He just, and I'm really curious, by the way, I've met him one time, but Brad Idzick, this new play caller for the Panthers, I really want to ask him, they ran a ton of RPOs against the Lions. The plan was to throw it middle of the field to McMillan. It worked. However, the Lions corners are not good. If I'm big fan, and that's back up safeties, too, on top of their corners, a thousand percent. If I'm big fan, you know, I'm putting Quinnian Mitchell on Teterola McMillan and Quinnian Mitchell is an awesome player. And even if he goes in the slot, maybe you'll leave him there. Maybe you put Cooper on him. Let's put this way. I would be very surprised knowing Vic Fangio. If he lets Teterola McMillan beat them, it's good. I don't know the health status of the other guys, Coker, whatever. They're going to have to, it's not going to be like 20 targets for Teterola McMillan for 200 yards. The Eagles are not going to let that happen. So Bryce Young, with the Panthers to win this game, they're going to have to find a different way to win. I have enjoyed you so much this season on the call, and that's saying something with Ian Eagles, ego casting a shadow on the entire stadium. So not easy. Not easy to be in the booth with that guy. I think he's amazing. What do you mean? I've done a really long time. I was like, what are you talking about? I think I don't think it's hyperbole. I think Ion is one of the best to ever do it. And I'm so good. He's awesome. He's awesome. No, he's unbelievable. He never messes up. I mean, knock on wood. It's just, and it's really cool because we've done like over 20 Westwood games together, which I'm sure is a big reason why you know, they gave me this opportunity. So Ion, the Ion part is awesome. The look on your face was worth it because I thought you were just kind of laugh because Ion gives everybody shit all the time. Like there's a sneaky. There's a sneaky part of him that's like really, really funny that you don't always notice, you know, because it's so dry or whatever. I was trying. Yeah. I was trying to do it. He didn't work, but that's even better. My my concern is he he's really good with like the pop culture reality TV references. And maybe it's because my daughters are still young. I don't watch reality TV. I feel like I'm out of the loop. So like my biggest concern right is he like references some like temptation island, which tells you how old my references are. And I don't get it. So we'll see. Ross Tucker CBS Ross Tucker football podcasts. Please check it out. Thanks man. Of course. It's a great title. It's a killer story because it is a killer story to learn about. It has been out now for about a month on HBO. It just came out. I worked through it in a week and the star of the show is Joe Sexton. And then I realized, well, he's also a producer. So that would make sense. I'm like, man, the producers are lucky. They got this guy. And Joe Sexton joins us now. He's a former senior editor at the New York Times 25 years there and also pro publica as well and has a book out and has been working on this stuff. Joe, I loved the the work that you all did on this one. So thanks for joining us today. It's a pleasure. The joy for me, you know, one more improbable development and an improbable career. So I hope your audience is ready for it. But it was rather odd experience, right? The star of a double homicide story. Oh, well, great. That's what they always dreamed of. Yeah. No, I was thinking about that when I was writing out like how I want to introduce you. I'm like rarely is the star. The person that has nothing to do with the actual case. No, I mean, it's possible I committed the murders in 2002. You know, I was, you know, I had the, you know, motive means an opportunity, I suppose. Well, if we look at this to help the audience, because I've watched it and you produced it in your part of it, let's let's go through the timeline of events, just kind of start there to what turns this into this interesting of a true crime story. All right. I'll give it a good shot. So anyway, in your introduction, I spent a quarter century at the New York Times and then got the fuck out of that asylum. I'm still in therapy working through it. And then I joined up with ProPublica, which is this nonprofit news investigative news outfit based in New York. And if you ever spend any time in a, in a newsroom, right, there are a lot of bad things that can happen to you. One, you can get sent out on a shitty story. Two, you can not get sent out on a really great story, but among the worst things that can happen to you in a newsroom is to find in your inbox and email forwarded from the boss. Hey, Joe, this is probably bullshit, but could you give away the next 12 hours of your life? No, actually establishing that this is a waste of our time. I'm like, oh, Christ. So I was like in 2017, I got one of those forwarded emails and it was from a woman in a tiny town called Omnick Kansas, which is about 35 miles west of Topeka, which is about, you know, I actually spent a little time working on the Union Pacific Railroad when I was a faceless teenager. We rolled it to one town and went into the only bar in town and there's Warmseller, 30 miles the other side of elsewhere. Well, all right, fucking Omnick Kansas, 30 miles the other side of elsewhere. Anyway, she wanted to, you know, fucking tell me about this woman who had been wrongly convicted of a double homicide 15 years before. A guy and his girlfriend have been found shot naked in their bed in Topeka, Kansas. And the case for many years had been called. There was no DNA at the scene, no fingerprints, no evidence of any kind. But the relatives of the two people who got popped were like, you know, we know who fucking did it. It's this guy's ex-wife. Jesus psycho, you know, she could never get over the divorce. He got custody of their two kids. She, you know, engaged in stalking and all this sort of thing. Anyway, but for many years, the local district attorney was like, yeah, that's a nice theory of a case, but it's not actually fucking prosecutable. So it's called for seven years. And then the great revered August American, you know, weekend entertainment CBS is 48 hours to size. It's going to come to Topeka and fucking solve the cold case, which is about as dangerous a proposition as you can do. Like, oh yeah, we're going to have a fucking true crime show come out and figure out this cold case murder. Anyway, they do a show basically regurgitating all the, you know, local police's version of the events, which is that the ex did it. They named her as a suspect for the first time. There's a new DA in office now. He's young and he's handsome and he's politically ambitious. And he's now got a show saying, hey, can somebody arrest this fucking woman? So, you know, of course, he goes out and does. And they, you know, prosecutor, they convict her. She sent away for a hundred years for the two homicides. But this, you know, lady in Alma and she admits by her own, you know, account that she's spent most of her day, you know, in her pajamas watching true crime. And, you know, as I say in the series, like, you know, a whiff of the fucking nut bag. And, but she's like dead, certain this woman's innocent. Why don't I look into it or whatever. And like I said, you know, I'm. So she's emailing you. This is Isleen. Isleen is emailing you incessantly about data. Yeah, I'm really fucking busy here, saving democracy. You know, I don't have time for your silly little double homicide in Kansas, whatever. And I was back, you know, yours in Christ, Joe, good luck with your pursuit of Joe. Anyway, I'm sorry to be laughing about a series topic, but I just did. She's like, either she didn't get the fucking message. She sends me over the next two years.
by conservative estimate by 3,000 emails. Like, you know, 10 to 10, 25 in a week, but she's got good shit. She's sending me forensics reports and, you know, ballistics analysis and, you know, credit card receipts. So I'm like, oh, you know, I don't know whether a fucking reporter to the cops or hire is one of my reporters. Anyway, I finally get off my ass two years later when the convictions are overturned. And this woman is now going to get retrial on the question of whether she really killed these two people in Topeka in 2002. And I'm like, hey, you know, that, you know, overturning state murder conviction doesn't happen every day. You know, let me go out and see what the fuck's up. And when you look into the particulars of the case, I mean, you know, it's a pretty lunatic theory of how it got done, right? So the theory is this acts would by now move from Topeka to Denver, Colorado, where she had an anonymous job as an inconsequential fucking accountant at some firm in Denver, whatever. Decides on a Saturday afternoon, she's going to jump in her Mitsubishi, drive 540 miles to Topeka, somehow gain entry to the home of the girlfriend of her ex-husband, get in there, 512 bullets, hit 'em all, you know, with all 12s, whatever. Get out of there, get back in her fucking Mitsubishi, drive 540 miles back to Denver, all in a 26-hour window, without leaving a fucking trace of evidence anywhere. And nothing, there was zero evidence. No. You know, no video, no eyewitness accounts, no one knew, you know, who saw her in the state of Kansas, much less in this bedroom in Topeka. But when they put her on trial, they just, you know, portrayed her as this, you know, hag, bag, you know, alcoholic ex, who was, you know, committed, you know, to the idea of vengeance against her ex-husband. Anyway, convictions are overturned. Now they're going to retry another time. So let me jump in here, then, because it was overturned based on prosecution. Rose prosecutorial misconduct. You know, you know, I've now spent, you know, close to 45 years in the news racket, right? And a fair amount of it covered in America's, you know, fucked up criminal justice system. So I've read a lot of, you know, opinions, overturning, wrongful convictions, whatever. But this one was quite special. It was unanimous ruling by the Kansas Supreme Court that said, this prosecutor who had sent this woman away, had made up evidence, had lied to the jury, you know, all sorts of shit. And, you know, so they overturned her based on that misconduct. And they, you know, and then, you know, new DA, now the third DA out in Topeka, besides, well, I'm obligated to go ahead and retry her. And they do. But it turns out that I lean, down in her pajamas, woman I come to call penpal, 'cause she can't stop fucking writing me. The, she's married to an ex-trash man from Alma. I don't know what the, the trash route in Alma is. It's like about 14 houses or whatever. But anyway, this guy needs a piece of work himself, right? Trash man, back in the day, also used to be a kind of self-styled, local fucking Bob Woodward and wrote his own notes. Yeah. This paper, Colin, taking on the county commissioners and all this shit, they canceled this contract to show him the fuck up. He takes his case, I swear to God, all the way to the US Supreme Court. And in a 7-2 decision with Sandra Dayle Connor writing the majority opinion, they say, you know what? Trash man have rights too. You know, it's a first amendment violation. They restore him. He takes his winnings, he goes back, finishes college, comes a lawyer, and turns out, one of the people he used to go after when he was, you know, Bob Woodward of the Midwest, was a local district attorney who turns out, who have not only been a kind of sort of a scumbag district attorney and not the world nicest person, but also married to the daughter of the woman who was killed in Topeka. So pen pal and trash man, they not only think this woman is innocent of the crimes, they think they know who's a much likelier suspect, and it's this guy from their past. - Right, and so, again, Dana Chandler is the one who was originally charged and then convicted, and then pen pal, Eileen and Keene Umber are working new, saying, hey, look, here's all the problems with the conviction, and then part of them feels empowered because the state court rules against the actual decision, but Dana Chandler's not released because they're like, look, there's still evidence and circumstantial evidence that at least puts her, that we're not letting her out, we're gonna retry this thing, and then pen pal and her husband are like, hey, here's your real murder suspect, who's Jeff Sutton, who sits down with you. What was the mood like? 'Cause it's very clear, I can't believe he agreed to do it, except that he was so confident that he was gonna be clear of this, but there had to be some tension there, 'cause it seemed like he wasn't thrilled to be dealing with you guys at all during the time. - Oh yeah, no, I mean, you know, and I've broken my arm over the years, patting myself on the back, whatever, but I am gonna give myself credit for fucking convincing this guy, who's, you know, he's never been looked at by law enforcement in any serious way of, you know, now being accused of having killed his wife's mother and her boyfriend, but, you know, I've had a knack over the years, some of it probably goes back to being a sports rider, you know, you learn how to just whatever bullshit makes small talk, you know, establish your credentials, and I think this guy came to believe that I was a, you know, I could be a straight shooter. He's had, you know, this couple publishing shit about how he's the fucking killer for more than a decade, so maybe he felt like, hey, I get a chance to have my say. But the shit was, as you quite rightly appreciate, it was a fraught environment, he's not happy to be there, and he's gonna be described in the thing as a fucking gun nut, like, one of the reasons Penpal and Trashman think he's the more likely murderer, is he's a, you know, he's a gun nut who, you know, put post pictures on Facebook with like 38 fucking weapons, strap to him or whatever, so, you know, he wants to get his side out. Anyway, he comes to the interview with his fucking side on, on his hip, sits down, and, you know, so that's kind of sets the mood for an interview. Yeah, I'm gonna ask him whether, you know, he actually killed his mother-in-law and his boyfriend, and he's got a fucking, you know, sizable pistol on his hip. Anyway, but I thought the interview came off great, and I think in the end, he's grateful that he did it. 'Cause. Yeah, he's totally clear. They force him to do a DNA sample, and they're like, look, it's not him, which then you go back to like, Eileen and Keen, this is what I don't like about them, okay? Penpal and her husband. Is that it reminds me of my friend who has a couple beers that tells me he'd be a better baseball general manager than whoever's running the Red Sox, okay? And I go, it's probably a little bit more complicated. I know you love baseball, I know you like, you know, you play it in junior high and everything, but it's probably a little bit more complicated than you're giving a credit. And I feel like people, I never forget, I use this example before. In the first serial podcast in the Adnan Syed case, which is an incredible podcast, right? They speak with somebody who works who's an advocate for they believe wrongly convicted prisoners. Like that's the entire business. And so they bring all the evidence to that person, and that person's whose life is devoted to finding cracks in a conviction says on the podcast, oh, there's problems with this case all over the place. And like I'm in the car going, well, of course, because that's all you've done. Your entire life is you can find the problems. I think we can find problems in cases that are pretty clear cut that you're like, well, that's a little weird, but I'm still okay with this decision. And so for her to admit, hey, I'm just sitting around, I just love True Crime. No law enforcement background whatsoever. I love True Crime. I love watching these shows that they collectively seem to be more convinced with no evidence and no motive of the Jeff Sutton outcome than the Dana Chandler one where despite no witnesses and no evidence and the DNA things and unbelievable set of circumstances. 'Cause it's almost like it was professional hitman that went in and did this that they were far more loose with like their determination of a suspect that has far less reason to be the killer. And like that's the kind of thing as I would watch their story throughout with you. I go, because they think they're onto something they're now blind to any hole in their own approach. No, absolutely, it's spot on. And, you know, and I call them out on it in the series, right? Yes. They're beefed with law enforcement at the time when they, you know, went after Dana Chandler was that they heard early on from family members and other that was probably the X-Wife and that they had developed this tunnel vision that they, you know, to the exclusion.
of looking at any other perspective, you know suspects. And now they have their theory of the case, right, which is that it's actually the Sun and Law or whatever, this guy they know from their past, whatever. And they develop almost exactly the same tunnel vision, right? They're convinced he did it. They pulled together a bunch of material about what a bad guy is and how he might have had a fucking kid who was mother-in-law's, you know, condo or whatever. But, you know, there's no evidence and then I say to them like, "Kane, Eileen, Pentau, Trashman, a collection of facts is not evidence, right? It's a collection of facts." And, you know, and there's much about the Jeff Sutton theory that doesn't make any sense either, right? I mean, so if he's a gun nut and he's in possession of all sorts of exotic weapons or whatever, why wouldn't he choose to take an oozy to go shoot the, if he didn't want to be found out, right? The very weapon that he'd been accused by Trashman of having fucking stolen from the local sheriff a decade earlier, like go get a fucking 22, the most common gun in the world or whatever, use that, get the job done. And you'll, you know, in terms of likely suspects, well, I don't know, 300 million people in America probably got a fucking 22. So, yeah, I mean, you know, and then, you know, the one little piece of evidence that they'd hung their hopes on, which was that there had been a hair found burned into one of the shell casings at the murder scene, you know, that comes back excluding, you know, the son-in-law as well. Well, they don't want to hear that. They got their guy, they think. And, you know, that's sort of how I conclude the series, right, which is the, you know, the dangers and, and, and perils of like personal certainty, right? Like, what, what do you believe you got the answer? And you're certain that you're right, you know, many, many, many bad things can happen from that. And everybody was chasing their own, you know, individual certainty, whether it was the cops in Topeka or Penpile of Trashman or, you know, Joe Shitthead, X Reporter from, no, from ProPublica, who's going to come out and thinks he'll crack the case himself too, which, you know, well, being a foolish idea. Well, I'm obviously going to ask you, but I want to just get to these, this other part of like, they have a retrial in 22. There's a new witness who's a disaster for the prosecution. That falls apart. So it leaves another hunter jury. And then, you remember there was a great movie, I think it was presumed innocent by Harrison Ford. Do you remember that? Sure, yeah. And Raul Julia is his defense lawyer, right? And it's this district attorney who's accused of killing his colleague, whatever, and he's on trial. And they put the pathologists on the stand. And Raul Julia does this merciless fucking cross-examination or whatever. And, you know, the guy's exposed, the evidence is made up, whatever. He comes back to the defense table and Harrison Ford turns up to, he goes, get what his name is Rudy or something, he goes like, you know, you're never going to get another cross-examination like that again in your life. Well, when we got this eyewitness to sit down for an interview. And she, you know, I don't mean to make fun of it. She just seemed struck me clearly an unwell woman, whatever. And, you know, whether she had fabricated her account of hearing the gunshots that night and seeing Dana Chandler and the bushes or whatever, the prosecution knew that it couldn't possibly be true. It didn't line up on the timeline. There was no evidence of she said she called 911. You know, they broke their fucking backs for five days trying to find that 911 we call they couldn't. Anyway, when she sat down for an interview with us, you know, I had the kind of reverse pleasure of kind of walking her through her lunatic account and how it couldn't be true. And by the end, she was almost crying. She was like, well, if I knew all this shit, I wouldn't have testified, you know, I was like, hey, honey, what an idiot. Is it true or not? You know, and she said, anyway, it was both at once cruel and quite a delight. Well, that leads us to, you know, I could talk about, I don't want to just do all timeline because I have a couple of questions, but like the last timeline piece. And this part is, this part is sad. She decides to represent herself in the third trial. And I think you are great in that spot, because a part of you is like, hey, this is going great. Like, who knows her story better than her, although it was heartbreaking to watch her after cross-examine her own daughter. And like that part, I'm like, you know, this is just such a shattered family, no matter what we may have thought was happening here. And then when she is on the stand, I mean, the whole thing, it's just really hard, like, okay, no one ever saw her. But her story changed so many times about her timeline of the day in question that it was, you just, just knew it was kind of like falling apart. Like whatever lead she had, she blew the lead as soon as she couldn't get her story straight, a story that she's been telling for like 20 years. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, look, the, you know, when she decides to represent herself, how did that happen, by the way? That must have been crazy of you guys having cameras around. She, you know, she, across her many years of appeals and various other things, you know, she was locked up for a decade. And, you know, after the second trial, she's actually granted her release on bond. Well, so it's first time she's been out in fresh air and, you know, 12 years or so. But across all of her appeals, she had kind of worked her way through a bunch of lawyers. She, you know, I'm just to be frank, right? There's some questions about her mental stability as well. And being locked up for a fucking decade for murders, you might not have committed. Well, that'll scramble your brain a bit. But the, anyway, so the idea that she might like cut her lawyer, you know, she always had sort of a tense relationship with the lawyers, no matter how effective they were. And the lawyers who had won a hung jury in the second trial for her were in place to, you know, go round three. And I have no doubt in my mind they would hang another jury. I don't think they'd ever get an acquittal. But it was clear to me they would hang another jury. And then it was hard to believe that they would try her a fourth time. So she's within, you know, spit distance of full-time freedom. But she decides literally on the morning, the third trial is to begin in 2025. Yeah. That she's going to, you know, represent herself. She fires the lawyers. I think in some ways there was a gross act of negligence for the judge to let her go ahead and do that. But, you know, as I say in the series, it's like, okay, well, bad for her, good for the series, right? Because, you know, the idea of, you know, a murder suspect representing themselves a trial with no legal training for whatever. Like I said, if she was in acquittal, she's going in the fucking true crime hall of fame, right? And for a while, like you said, you know, she had sat through two trials in which the only testimony about who Dana Chandler was had come from family members who thought she was the worst person on the world, on the planet, right? Now she decides to put herself on the stand and at least like come alive as a human being a little bit like where you grew up, where you went to school and, you know, how happy you were to have two young children at one moment and the pain of your divorce and the heartbreak of losing your kids to your husband in a custody battle. Like, okay, like a little bit of humanizing, right? The jury might have something to work with. But, you know, she was poorly trained. She couldn't get evidence in, you know, and then ultimately when she's cross-examined, you know, it's catastrophic. But to your very good point, right? People ask me incessantly and understandably, Joe, do you think she did it? And I'm like, well, look, she had 10 years behind bars. She had a couple of trials. All she has to do, her life is on the line. All you have to do is tell one straight alibi story. This is where I was. This is what I did. I might have told different accounts over the years because whatever. I was scared. I was confused. Whatever. I'm sorry for that. And I've paid for that for the decade behind bars. But this is the one story. This is what really happened. I'm sticking with it. You're hearing it from me. But of course, it wasn't the one story. And, you know, in whatever, human spectacle, both kind of exquisitely suspenseful and, you know, heartbreakingly sad, you know, she comes undone. I had a hard time getting over the gas can.
purchases. Oh, well, don't give me started. But go ahead, tell me how you reacted to it. Well, she lied about it and who buys two gas cans, like just randomly before they potentially may want to drive that many miles round trip and not use a credit card, not have to stop and be seen at a gas station. It was a very, that's a strange set of circumstances. All right, so let me come at you this way, right? Because the theory of her as the killer, right, is that she's all but a fucking criminal mastermind, right? Because she's able to carry out the perfect execution of two people without leaving any evidence, right? So that's how that's how they portray her. So calculating, so thoughtful. Well, if you're going to carry out the perfect fucking murder, why would you buy two fucking gas cans with your credit card with a receipt? But I think you misunderstood one thing. She didn't lie about it when she was questioned by the police about what she bought at the auto zone on the day before the murders. She doesn't mention that she bought the gas cans, but she's given the detectives the receipts that say gas fucking cans. So it's not like she was hiding it at all and last of all, the mileage just didn't work. You know, you can't go 1100 miles in the Mitsubishi that gets 28.6 miles to the gallon with a full tank and two five-gallon cans can't be done. So what was the point of them if that was her, you know, right? Because then it's like if that the mileage doesn't work, then she paid cash and there's no transactions, no witness, then it's like that the cash cans are irrelevant then. Right. And at the very first trial, they put on evidence that somehow she had stopped for gas and was seen by an attendant at the gas station on I-70, whatever. Once again, the theory of the case, okay, if the theory is she bought the gas cans so she wouldn't have to stop and why the fuck is she stopping on her way to Topeka? So much about the prosecution doesn't make any sense. And it's kind of understandable because they don't have any evidence beyond the fact that she's a bad person, right? Have you spent a lot of time with Dana? There's a lot of audio there. Is there any communication anymore? Have you spent this much time with someone? It's a great question. You're the first person to ask it. You know, there were a time where I, you know, take a call from her every couple of weeks or whatever. But I have not heard from her. And, you know, I thought I might, I'm my assumption is she should be pretty angry about it. She's angry at a lot. And she's capable of tracking me down. So I'm a little surprised not to have heard from her. But, you know, she's busy, you know, riding away her, you know, her latest set of, you know, appeal submissions. So we'll see. I don't know. I mean, I guess I wouldn't rule out the possibility that she that she might prevail on appeal. You know, there's something about, you know, you can make an appeal based on sufficiency of evidence. And there really isn't much. So we'll see. But, you know, judges even, you know, Supreme Court judges in Kansas are not the bravest soul. So, you know, history, you know, would suggest the convictions will stay in place. Do you like this more than covering sports? Well, you know, if somebody said, people asked me like, how'd you get into true crime when I was like, dude, I covered the fucking meds of the early 90s. It's talking about true crimes. I mean, you couldn't count the amount of fucking felonies committed there. So, I, you know, I think being a sports writer provides really great training. I think it teaches you to write fast and teaches right accurately. It teaches you to have some sense of story structure and heroes and goats and whatever. But in it, you know, long term, I think it's a fucking soul crushing profession. More so than crime. Oh, yeah, because, you know, as I say, when I went for being a sports reporter to a city, you know, reported covering politics and crime and education and health care was like, oh, now I'm in a world where people actually do want to talk to you, right? Unlike fucking ball players, you know, and two, they actually have something to say, unlike ball players. So, you know, I, you know, it happened as a matter of personal tragedy that I had to leave sports and move over to the city. I became a single dad of two little girls at the time. I couldn't travel you know, and be a met's beat writer. So, but out of that tragedy is the best thing that ever happened in my career. I do wonder, you know, in your, your Brooklyn, your New York city, you know what I mean? So, covering the crime, politics, police, beat, is it possibly for you to believe in anything being good or just anymore? Ah, it's a great question. You're a good interviewer. Well, you know, I wrote a book a couple years ago called The Law Sands of Omaha, and it was about a racial killing out in Omaha, Nebraska in the days after George Floyd. And in many ways, it's a story of a kind of parable of a broken America, right? Because it has all sorts of, you know, mistrust in the criminal justice system, mistrust among the races in America, you know, the weaponized internet, harm done to the soldiers we asked to go fight our wars forever. And so it's a pretty, you know, real picture of a broken America. But, you know, even in those circumstances, I have always found that even in those instances, you will find people of grace, of forgiveness, of, you know, so I'm, you know, I'm a believer in my fellow human beings. And so now, and when I used to, you know, sign the books or whatever, I would put the following down as sort of advice for how function in the world. I would say question, period, believe, period, do both at once. And by that, I mean, we should always be suspicious. We should always challenge, you know, orthodoxy. We should, you know, believe, I mean, we should be smart enough to know that really bad shit can happen. And, you know, people can do evil things. At the same time, there is, there are believable truths in the world. And, you know, that is both a comfort and, you know, and in some way, a thrill. So, yes, go ahead and question everything. But don't give up on the idea that there actually is an art trustworthy answers in the world. So, that's sort of how I shake out. Yeah, I think about it a lot myself, but I think your perspective would either skew you to a degree that it would be incapable for you. But I thought that was a great answer. That's the right, that's the answer I hope that I got from you, but I didn't know if I get it. I'm glad I delivered. A killer story. It's an awesome like couples watch, you know what I mean? Like everybody who would sit down and believe me, like when you're talking to television networks and pitching stuff and that kind of thing, it's like, hey, what would what would me and my wife both like to watch? And the twists and the turns and the characters. And then of course, Joe front and center, he just comes onto the screen like a tornado. And it is awesome. And I think you probably get a sense of that for those listening to this. So, again, Joe sexton producer and star of a killer story. And let me take one second to take for sure. So thank you. I mean, really, you've given me an incredible half hour here of platform. You know, some really thoughtful questions. It's been a pleasure. And you know, I can't thank you enough. Yeah, we'll all thank Frank Isola collectively here for making this happen. That's a good far. Thanks, Joe. All right, take care. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every tour you can possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Live advice.
Live advice,
[email protected], Saruti, Kyle, Inomics. Alright, first one, out of the shoot, golf is not a verb. Can you fellas use your platform to help rid folks of using golf as a verb? I know it's socially accepted, but I don't hear people saying they're going basketballing. There are a lot of worst things to be annoyed about, but this one is cringe worthy to me when I hear it. Note it. Yeah, I had an old roommate who would correct people on that. It's like it's not golfing or playing golf. Is it fishing them? Fishing is a verb? I don't care. You're going to finish. You want it if you don't care. I don't care. Yeah. I'm not going to die. Yeah, I remember being in the hot tub once with a bunch of people. I said anyways, and this girl was like, you know, any ways is not a word. It's like, well, we're not. How do you draw the line though? Remember intensive purposes? Remember people didn't know like what that was, and then it became a big thing to correct people on it. No, it's intensive purposes, you know. I do love them. I see somebody spelling in an email though, and you're like, man, keep it in the cloud. I mean, you don't understand what I'm trying to do with these emails on the fly sometimes as I'm reading them, but all right. Let's get to this one. Turned in a shoplifter. Am I a bitch? Hmm. Kyle's not going to like this guy. 33, 510, 210 pounds or five or two, no impressive gym stats, but playing the best golf of my life recently. Hell yeah. Golfing really well. Good for you. This guy's golfing the hell out of it. Don't take it for granted. All right. The best golf of his life happened after he got a standing desk at work, which I now use almost 100% of the time each day would recommend. So anybody's struggling with their handicap dude, I have one and I sit, stop sitting at my standing desk right now. I'm like such a loser. One of our friends, he was the first guy to buy a standing desk. You're going to, now you're going to stand and do nothing, is it supposed to sit and do nothing? Put a tiny little treadmill under there. I just really go for, go for broke there. I've done it. I've done it. You did it. I did the whole thing. Yeah, my parents, when they moved out of the house, they had one of those like really flat lay down. Fred Mills and I was like, I'll do it, did it for like two months and then it's been in the closet ever since. So good times. Sitting is the worst. You're going to unlock the hips. It's going to unlock the hips. Total game changer. I returned a mattress like 15 years ago because I was like, yeah, there's something wrong with this back and it was like, no, you don't stretch and you're left sorry to that mattress company. But thanks for the replacement. All right. I live in the Midwest. Not sure if it matters, but I'll throw it in. I was perusing Facebook a couple days ago when a post from a local crime stop or page popped up as a help identifying three suspects in a shoplifting case at the Walmart in town. I saw the pictures and immediately recognized one of the women. Let's call her Jade. By the way, incredible fake name for somebody who might shoplift. No, that's all the Jade's listening. Jade and I went to the same church youth group growing up. She had a somewhat breaking point in her senior year ran away from home and unfortunately got into the wrong crowd. It's been arrested multiple times for gun and drug charges since then gun. That's awesome. I hadn't thought about Jade in at least a few years, but immediately snooped on her own Facebook page to see if my hunch was right that she was the alleged thief in question and obvious chest tattoo all but confirmed that she was a match and I immediately called with non-emergency lines, please department. I spoke to an officer, gave him her name, the phone number. I still had for her in my contacts and emailed him screenshots from her page to help match the tattoo to this is rough. I felt alive and full of energy during my sleuthing, but immediately after hanging up the phone with the officer, I felt like such a bitch in a rat. Part of me wanted to feel like I was helping solve a case, which hindsight for all I know she or crew just lifted a parachute. I looked she and her crew, this guy's awesome, this guy's watching fucking, oh my God, this guy's hilarious. All right. So they might have just lifted a pair of shoes or something from a multi-billion dollar corporation that doesn't give a f part of me also wanted to turn her in as some attempt to wake her up. It's not going down this path that she's on with a rest track record. This will likely fail at doing so. I don't know for sure. I don't know if she was arrested yet, but the Facebook post was updated saying the suspects were identified. What say you? Did I do my civic duty of trying to help our officers of the law or am I a narc who should have minded my business? Thanks. Love the pot. No, I thought when I heard the subject line in this email, I was like, you know what? I also hate that I got to go get the one employee in CVS to get a fucking deodorant or some detergent. I also hate that it's locked up. And if you like, if that all boiled over and you were in the heat of the moment, and you're like, hey, you can't steal that. I wouldn't kind of understand that, but I'm still a mind your own business guy. This is, I mean, hopefully this is just a dark day in your life that you're like, never want to slip down that path again. I hope that's where you end up with this because now it almost sounds like you're rationalizing. Like, pardon me, wants to like wake her up. It sounds like maybe she used to bully you a little bit, your love set. I don't know, man. I don't, I don't think you can convince yourself that you're doing this for her own good. I think it was a perfect storm of crime stoppers popped up on your page and you're like, I know her. And you know what? Intrusive thoughts won. You followed through. It's crazy what you can be capable of, but yeah, I would, I'd go back to mind your business after this. I wouldn't make this happen. Yeah. We've had a couple of these. I feel like recently on the pod where it's like, you should probably not tell anybody that you're doing this. It's just not, I don't know who's going to be like, dude, awesome. Hell yeah. To like, hey, I want to wake her up thing, like if the gun charts didn't wake her up. Like we think simple shoplifting a Walmart's going to like, I just don't, there's just levels to this dude. So I don't know. Like, yeah, if it was something serious, like, yeah, obviously, like, you know, fill the police in. Like, be that guy. But this just seems like, who knows? Man, you don't know what she's necessarily doing. She was stealing from friends, dad's hardware store, maybe. But come on. Yeah. Why'd she run away from home? I might be on Jade's side. Yeah. I'd keep this to myself. I wouldn't tell anybody. Let's do it. Let's not read any of the inevitable follow-ups we get. I think let's do this guy favor. Hey, this is Jade and I wasn't even there for shoes and that was Steve, Steve, whatever. But I know what this guy went through. Like he went through, like we all like to feel like we're a part of something, okay? This is a very true thing of our species is that when you feel like you have something or you're like, oh, I can help or I can do this. And I don't mean like helping in a good Samaritan way, it's just this guy had this rush when he was on the Crime Stoppers page and he saw the potential thief and he was like, I can solve this. That was a rush for the Caprio meme where he's just pointing at the TV. Right. So I understand why he did it because he's thinking like, oh, but like nobody else can crack the code. Like I did it. It's not like you felt more important that day or filled some void in your life or anything, but I totally understand. I remember one time I was like in the car once and the guys were tights before I was even on the air and I was listening to like local sports radio and I knew I was like, that's not what happened. And then I was like, I should call in my dad being like, you're going to call in and stay on hold to tell these guys why something's wrong. What do you think? I'm going to pay you for that hour. Like give me a fucking break. What are you looser? And I was like, okay, thank you. But there's this. I think it's a very common thing, but I think it's really kind of nailed it with the whole point of like, you might not want to tell anybody this fair, yeah, okay. Yoga, yodelur terrorist, no gym stats, player comp, also a Guadarro explosive off the dribble, no jumper, no jumper, yeah, we live directly across the street from a beautiful park in the Midwest. Our front window overlooks a field and baseball diamond and my kids and I play baseball there every weekend. Here's the dilemma. A new woman has moved to the neighborhood and has taken to doing yoga outdoors in this area of the park every day. I have no issue with this, but she also for some ungodly reason sings quite loudly while she does it. I'm talking opera level loud whaling that goes on for the entire duration of her workout. She does this during the day and sometimes at night, it's like someone put a yoga ex-yodeling playlist on max volume right outside of our front office, our front window. What's the best way to confront her? Get her to stop this behavior. One, go out politely, ask her if she could work on her flexibility without singing. Two, Blarissa music back at her from the front porch. Three, have my six year old yell shut up until she moves to a different spot in the park. Yes. The fans, ears, thank you for your guidance in this matter. I love them. I love them. Three, huh? I think that you put your kid in the middle of that. You got it. You just got to do it, you know? This feels like a fire with fire situation because I think someone like this probably feels like she's tapped into some higher frequency by doing this and everyone else's idiots for not understanding this. Yeah. There's something that's going on there. Yeah. I think you being like, hey, could you tone it down? You know, I think she's like, this is a public space. I think she probably has her spiel all set. I mean, you could. You could be like, you know, would you mind? But I would totally be expecting a here's one of our first time. Yeah. She knows the defense. I would totally be expecting a here's why I can't do that. I mean, the fact that you live next to a park, sometimes that's just what happens though is like, my dad lives next to a park. You used to have it like the pickle ball people have kind of run the tennis people. A lot of town, you know, they have to like make their own clubs elsewhere. And pickle balls are just a lot louder than tennis and they can turn one tennis court
to like three pickle ball courts. So where you hear basically one group playing tennis, now there's three groups playing pickle ball, but he lives next to a park. There's nothing you can do about that. He just grumbles about. He can't believe pickle ball is taken over the country and it's come to his small town. That's the shit that you get when you live next to a park. There's a nice parts of living by a park and then sometimes anyone can go there. That's the point of it. So I'd find the way to do that. Did you know that it's not paddle? It's padel. Yeah, I don't know if that's true. Oh, it's true. I just found out the other night. Yeah. Somebody was like, oh, I'm gonna go play padel with, I was like, what the fuck did you just call it? And then I needed them to explain it. And I was like, it's not paddle. I'm like, no, it's actually by the people to do it. It's called padel. Like, that's fucking you. Nope, this person wouldn't do it. He wouldn't do it. No chance, I'll climb and sink, all right. Nope, okay. Sure. But to put a bow on it, you look at it probably. Yeah. How are you even looking it up? You're gonna look up a pronunciation? Yeah. Yeah, look it up, sir. But keep going, Kyle. No, I think I should. Did you ever get yelled at in a park when you were a kid, Kyle? Yeah, totally. Light shit on fire, you know? Just doing stuff like it. It's not forever easier to say. Because you want to be able to go up to this woman and go, you know, just the universal. Hey, really? Come on. You're gonna do this. I think the fire with fire thing is right on. I think the kid being involved, although you got to worry about like parenting, you know, is six still too impressionable that in your six year old things, say this is hilarious. We just get to yell at anyone. Now you're sending them off to kindergarten, you know? Yeah, that I don't like. Hope it all works out. Might not want to do that. You're still looking up paddle, Padelle? Dude, AI is crazy. I got two different answers, both with the opposite thing. One says it's pronounced like the English word paddle or puddle and saddle combined. And the other one says it's Padelle, yeah. Padelle, which I don't, I don't know. I'm more confused now. Okay, good. All right, another quick one here. I do have a quick follow up though. It would be kind of funny. Like, I think you need to do this like a coordinated effort for the neighborhood. Like, can't I just be you if you're gonna do a music blast and thing? I do like the idea of that. Because it would be so funny if you just are like blasting like limb biscuit break stuff while she's trying to do her yodeling thing. Or like just playing around and pool. It feels like you're lying across there. You can't be the only one of the neighborhood just doing that, but it would be funny if you can kind of get like a group of you guys to like take turns whenever this kind of happens. So you're just hitting there from all angles. So that I just think that would be funny and you'd probably be entertaining, but it depends on who your neighbors are. All right, friends, give me a hard time for being successful gym stats. 225, two reps, basketball comp, bench comp is unnecessary. We don't need that. Sean Livingston against anyone who isn't the Cavaliers. Great back to the basketball player. Good size for guard. Nice, midi, shaky three ball. All right, Ryan and gang. I've recently been getting a hard time for some of my friends about my career success. I'm not sure if I'm being too sensitive about it for some backstory. I'm 24, have a decent job. But I honestly don't make that much money. I certainly wouldn't consider myself rich, but I'm from a small town in the South where making 60K a year is viewed is pretty good. I made the mistake of telling my two hometown buddies who are also going to be groomsman in the wedding. How much I make, rookie mistake. I was proud of myself and wanted to share because they asked. They had both been working since I started my undergraduate degree in one year grad school. So they were curious why it's been so much time and money on college. Now, though, they constantly make jokes about how I can pick up the tab or how I can. Look, I just get to interject here. That you went to school graduated and got a nice little gig here for 60K a year and they're acting like you're a Vanderbilt. It's kind of funny to me. So it might have way more to do with like the area. Their aspirations, yeah, area. Their passion for a path that leads to any kind of education. So I just kind of had to throw that one in there. Now, though, they constantly make jokes about it. I know they're probably just giving me shit like friends do, but it started genuinely annoying me. I worked hard to pay for my own college. I don't come from a wealthy family. I work hard in my jobs. So sometimes it feels like I'm getting shit from making choices that I worked hard to earn. Recently, I finally snapped. They were both giving me a hard time about it again. I told them, quote, no one feels sorry for you. Take your pity party somewhere else. Okay. I'm alright with that. Just if they were like, hey, Richie Rich over here can pick up the tab. That seems to be an express lane to another level of confrontation. All right. Our guy says I obviously regret saying it, but I was frustrated about hearing the same jokes over and over. I know they're my buddies and probably aren't actually trying to put me down, but at the same time, I feel like I've earned what I have. They had many of the same opportunities I did. I paid for college completely in my own. So am I being too sensitive? How much of this should I just laugh off because that's what friends do? More importantly, how do you handle talking about your career and financial success with close friends and family without creating resentment? At what point do you decide that someone's constant jokes are actually assigned that they aren't happy for you and maybe aren't worth keeping in your life? Thanks in advance, love the show. All right. You guys got anything quick on this? I mean, obviously, this comes from just insecurity from your boys, which sucks. I mean, it's like, hey, cool, I was trying to better my life and I did these things and I'm just supposed to be the asshole here because I'm, you know, I worked hard to get here. But like-- - So like say like, it's not my fault, I want nothing. - Yeah. But I don't think you could say that. Like, I don't think you could say that. Because then you're just gonna be, it's like digging a deeper hole for yourself. So, I don't know, man, how mean are the jokes? Like, are you still, are you guys still like enjoying going out with each other? Or is it feel hurt? - None of these seem mean. - You go out twice a week though and they joke that you could pick up this tab every single time. Like if you're, that's, it does compound after a minute, I think, which is where I, that's where the view I was taking. It's like, he's got these three guys. This is the group of them three and they go out all the time and this is now just a normal part of it. Which if that's the case, that's the case. I got guys that still call me Hollywood. I'm living, you know, in Pekipsi again. They call me Hollywood. I don't know what to do. - But that makes sense because if you're a crew in Pekipsi, like, they're looking at you going, you know, whatever, like this guy's 24. And if he's right out of the shoot, like a grown up job, 60K and these other guys just haven't figured it out, which is totally normal, they're not figured out. Like 60K to them is like six million. They're not even thinking about it. They don't, so I wouldn't, what you should do is just chalk it up to like, you're ahead of the game, your timelines going better and that should be the win, not any kind of retort. But talking to your friends about money, there's always so many in the group that doesn't like it. Like there can be a bunch of friends that are super happy for you and then there's going to be one guy that sidles up to another guy that's like, oh, I'm talking so and so. You know, like I kind of, I was a loser for so long that everybody was totally fine with me being a loser. And then when I wasn't necessarily a loser, they were like, this is sort of weird. I mean, even the golf trip, and I don't care 'cause we've known each other for 30 years, but I had one, I don't know, like four or five hands of guts in a row where it's a poker game where you play with two cards and you stay and stay out and the pot just goes from like nothing to bananas. And I had won a bunch and guys were cheering and chanting and then I leaned over. I was like, and I don't even need this. I'm like, I'm like crazy now. - Yeah, I know. Right, right. So you're gonna keep it to yourself, do you? - Yeah. And I'm telling you, don't do that. I know that I could do it. And then the funny thing is we're golfing the next day and I was talking to one of my closest friends of the group. He's like, you know one person hated you saying that. And I go, absolutely. I go, absolutely somebody hated. But you know what? Do you have many times I hated what I heard from any particular person in the group of 30 years of knowing each other? We'll come around in that way, right? There we go. So it's my time, motherfucker. It's also like poker money that nobody was really freaking out about or anything. It was late. - It was budget. - Yeah. - The line was like a perfect time to deliver it. The line did really well. And then somebody reminded me the next day, you're like, you know somebody didn't like that. I was like, of course. Like there's no way everybody thought that was cool. I said that. Along those lines just to be done from from my end. It's like I think maybe definitely don't say you had the same opportunities I had. But I think you could give it a little bit back with friends here. And when they drop that, you'd be like, yeah, you know, Mr. Big, you know, Mr. Big shot over here. You'd be like, yeah, let me know if you need any help navigating those 401k's Ross. And then they could be a little tricky. - Yeah, lean into it. - You know what I mean? There you go. That's it. And then just then move on. Don't say like it's, it's not my fault. I did poorly. You guys not going to go to high school. Like no, no, it's 24. We're not going to deliver that's also you're never going to deliver that well. - I think in a comfortable friend group, like this is I think my friend group, Ron, you were just describing it. Like there needs to be a little bit of like a friendly uncomfortability. Like, you know what I mean? Like they're nice. It's good. There's like a little bit of tension. You know, like I think it pushes people. And like it just makes for a more interesting friend group than everybody just sitting by all the time. But there is a level to it where it takes it too far than people actually just start not liking you and not want to hang out with you. So it is a fine line. But yeah, I think lean into it. And I don't know, I'll try to take it too seriously. Like you're winning here. So try not to take it too seriously. - That'll do for the show. Thanks Tom, thanks Kevin, thanks to Rudy, thanks to Kyle. Ryan, we're still the show. All episodes on Netflix are still sports. - See you. (upbeat music)
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