Adventures In Adaptability - Cultivating An Explorer's Mindset

[MUSIC] In times of rapid acceleration, high pressure, and general uncertainty, the reality is clear. Professionals are struggling. They have become more mentally and emotionally exhausted, less curious, more stressed, and less giving. Adding to this is the complexity around solutions, with the overabundance of protocols, supplements, and so-called performance hacks. The end result is leaders are more distracted, and have less mental agility, poorer performance, and struggle to be the belief builder and energy multiplier for their teams. We don't want to accept that. Our passion is to help professionals be more. These conversations help illuminate your thinking into sustainable human performance, learning real solutions to improve your energy, focus, and ultimately increase your impact. This is the TIGNUM Thought Cast. [MUSIC] Today's episode, Adventures in Adaptability, cultivating an explorer's mindset with special guest, Lucy Sheppard. Lucy is a professional explorer who stands at the forefront of modern exploration, and has traveled to some of the most remote parts of our world to quote, "Open people's eyes to the beautiful fragility of our planet." We hope you enjoy it. [MUSIC] Hello, everyone, and welcome. I'm Scott Pelton, one of the co-founders of TIGNUM, and to me, when I'm in a kitchen preparing a meal, there's nothing more exciting than when you have a fascinating guest. Today we have that with Lucy Sheppard. For those of you that haven't looked her up already, at 30 years old, Lucy is at the forefront of modern exploration and redefining what it means to be an explorer. From mountain ranges and tropical rainforests to the Arctic tundra for over a decade already, a decade, she's only 30. She has plotted a thrilling, inimitable path for herself, and for so many of us to go on her journey with her. I said that like these were small feats, but if you think about it in 2021, Lucy led an expedition through 253 miles of dense and unchartered Amazon juggle in the Kanuku Mountains in Guiana in just 50 days. She was surrounded by deadly snakes, she was stung by wajas, she was stalked by jaguars, and she went for weeks without seeing the sun because of the tree canopy above her. It was so dense. We're talking about some serious stuff here. I mean, and this is coming from a firefighter, so I'm just blown away. And during most of this expedition, she had weeks of being able of, she was weeks away from being able to be rescued. So just imagine the mindset and the resilience she has developed. So we're going to dig into this and learn so many things from Lucy today. Welcome Lucy. Thank you so much for having me and thank you for the introduction. Yeah, so I think a great place to start Lucy, as always, is just to get your version of you sharing your story, how you became an explorer, what inspires you to just take on one adventure after another. Let us get just an insight into you. Yeah, of course. I mean, like anyone, I didn't grow up thinking that being an explorer was a real job. I mean, even now, if it's out of context, and I'm in some sort of social environment, where I don't know people, and then that question that comes up, where, you know, what do you do? It's always seems we always identify ourselves what we do. And I say explorer, and I'm so aware of how, how, sort of, possibly out of date it might sound. And so even now, after doing it for so long, I still feel the need to defend myself and defend my position. So, yeah, it wasn't like I grew up knowing that that was a real thing. It was something where I was always an adventurous child, I suppose. I was no any child, I grew up in the countryside, and I had a lot of, I think I had a lot of boredom, which is something that's quite rare now in a way for kids, especially in teenagers growing up, because we have, of course, we have the phones and we have the social media. And so it's quite a shame, because without boredom, you're not lost in your thoughts. And I was always lost in my thoughts trying to figure out what I wanted to do. So, playing a lot outside, and I just felt very much, myself, when I was outside, and it was a funny thing, we all, we were all kids' climb trees when they're younger. And I was definitely one of those kids who climb trees. And when I go to school and ask teenagers if they still climb trees, most of them won't part of the hand anymore. So, it's something we do when we're younger, but then this thing that we used to love doing, whatever, it might not be trees, it might be something else, might be some game or something else that made you feel really alive when you were young. You stop doing it for when you get to that critical sort of 12, 13 years old. And I think it's a real shame, because a lot of these things, it is because of peer pressure, I don't know, things like that, society pressures, schooling, or caring what people think, it's not cool anymore. And often it's that thing that makes you really who you are. And I noticed this adventurous side of me going away, and it was always something that I felt like I've used that adventurous word as quite my identity, I think, when I was growing up. Quite, I wasn't particularly very good at school, I was very average, just not for low average, for a lot of things, until I really realised that if you actually worked harder things, you could achieve it. But adventurous was something I was always labelled by adults around me and so on. And just when I noticed it going away, I discovered this word expedition. And just like this term explorer, I didn't know when I was growing up, the expedition still existed. I found out that they did, and I fell in love with this idea, that that could be something that I could do. And I got very lucky, I saw an advert at the paper when I was about 16, asking for volunteers to take part in a scientific art exhibition that was going ahead in two years time. So they wanted 10, 10 people 18 to 25 year old to take part, and for 10 whole weeks up in the Arctic Circle, but being a bit like Guinea pigs really, it was sort of an experiment thing that the Royal Geographical Society did. And I thought, you know, I applied and I went through the interview process, the training, and to learn how to let's fundraise a little, which is always the interesting bit of any of this side of things. And I got in, so 18, I headed off, I headed off to the Arctic, for 10 whole weeks, found this version of myself that I remembered, I was used to be like this essence of that sort of little girl clining the trees and found this leader that I didn't know existed, really. And then I got back, and it's always, it's often always your loved ones, isn't it, that say, wow, you know, one amazing once in a lifetime adventure. And all I could think of is, that's once in a lifetime, then surely it's all downhill from here. And it wasn't until I realised that, if this is something I really want, then I'm going to have to have to work at it. It's so incredible because often in our coaching, you know, you try to help people identify their unique super strengths, the things that are really good at, and then you try to find where you could apply that. So I'm listening to your super strengths, you know, I do really good with boredom. I'm a great tree climber. I'm adventurous. It sounds like you're a little bit of fearless. And I'm not afraid to go try things that other people may not try. So what would I be good at? Oh, how about an explorer? And that's like just mind boggling to me how you did that. But I also love the way you reframe your mindset there. And you said, why do the greatest achievements of our life have to be once in a lifetime? Why can't it be my life? And it sounds like that's what you did. So what led you then to the next expedition and the next expedition? Absolutely. I obviously realized just leading on to what you were saying is most people don't even ask the question or dare to even try. And I was the thing, I learned that at a very, very early age, that you know, most people don't even put themselves in the ring. And so I learned that earlier, I realized, well, if I can be a little bit bold with my decisions or career path that might not seem very normal, then maybe that's the sort of way I can sort of get where I want to be. And how did I make it continue? Well, I knew I didn't, the problem with what I knew I wanted to do this professionally, but I also had a quite a specific, I suppose, way I wanted to do it, because I didn't want to, the sort of traditional route path, if you think of what I'm doing now is, now I've got a series coming out in 2004 and you know, exactly where I've always wanted to be in all of that. And 10 years ago, if I was looking at, or 12 years ago, whenever it was, it was looking at how to become this, it would be very simple. You have to join the military because everyone who was professional at school, has been the military one way or another. And if you didn't want to do it in that sort of prestigious way, then maybe you just, you become an outdoor guide and you stay an outdoor guide for the rest of your life, so then you've got the outdoors all the time. But my problem was I didn't want to do either of those things. And I also wanted to live like a, I live in London, for example, I like the opposite, so I like the extremes. And I really realised that I'm not like it. And nothing's like on white, basically, is you don't, you have to, everyone sort of thought that if you're a lover in the exploration, then you have to want to be outside all the time. You know, why are you cold? You shouldn't be cold because you spend all the time in the Arctic, or you should, you know, all of those, you should want to sleep in the tent at that festival. It's like, "Oh no, that's the, no, nothing's like that." I like both luxuries. So I thought, well, I'm going to have to make my own niche here. So I gained a lot of different experience because there was no way I was completely qualified at 18 years old to do it. And so I learnt from people that better than me, I started hanging around the Royal Geographical Society. I overheard that to run off finds, the greatest living explorer of our time would ruin those corridors and they were absolutely right. He would sort of get advice from him. I just made a bit of a pest of myself when I was 18, 19 years old. And eventually I got invited on another exhibition when I was 19 to join five special forces men who were going to do another exhibition across the Hardanga Theatre in Norway. And it was after that because of all but one, the one person who invited me really backed me and sort of said to the others that I was doing it, he took a risk on me and then of course it all went well and I got the respect from all these other guys. And then after that I remember being like, okay, this is something that I think I can do and might be onto something here. So I just, I almost came up with a strategy that took about 10 years to materialise. And I was the one thing I wanted to do is I never wanted to specialise as often as you find, especially women in the industry. And I don't know why it is, they specialise in either just mounts nearing or very, very good climbers or very, very good polar travellers or whatever it is. But the thing about me is I do it for, I'm probably, what's the saying, I'm a master of none. I love them all but I've got a passion for it. But I just love this planet. That's what drives me. I love, I've just got so much, I feel like we don't have enough time on this planet. I just want to see it all with these wild places inspired me so much and I just want to see it. Ready? So any skills I have to learn to get those, I'll do it. Yeah. Well there's one skill that you just mentioned kind of casually but I think it's huge and most of us are terrible at it. And that is that you found kind of a mentor or someone that you looked up to and you asked them for advice. How did you figure that out? Because I can imagine, you know, a young girl like you, an explorer, a person who is doing really bold, difficult things. You could also be like, I'm going to prove to everybody that I can do this on my own but somehow you said, no, no, no, no, no, I'm going to ask somebody for their advice and I'm going to learn along the way. What made you realize that? Yeah. I think one of my faults in a way going up was the fact that I maybe asked and listened to too much advice because I've never, so I always think I don't have the right answer until we, you know, I've realized that actually you can listen to other things advice. You don't actually have to take it on board or you can make your own decision. But yeah, going into it, I felt like, because you know, I don't come from an explorer background and don't come from a military background or anything like that. I'm coming in from a very loving and supportive family, sure, but a very in a way boring and average family, mum was a doctor and as a teacher. So very stable and secure jobs in a way. I very much compare what I do now is, you know, it's being an entrepreneur. It's uncertainty. It's having to figure out. It's having to hustle when I'm not in the out in the expeditions. So yeah, I was looking for advice anywhere I could and also I, I, mentors, of course, they come in this person who I'm talking about who was expression forces. He was really gave me his time and things like that. But then I also realized that I could, you mean, mentorship can come in all different forms, can it can also come in terms of your environment. I would always look to be inspired. I love the feeling of being inspired, but it could also come from, I like to think of your past self. And so because I was lucky enough to have done that early exhibition, when I was 18, I realized that you could actually rely on yourself and you could back yourself. So when I would have hard times later on, so thinking back to what I'd done then and realizing that you can actually be quite proud of yourself and that can be in a way you can learn from your past self, I think is a good way of thinking of it. How you figured that out at such a young age is fascinating to me because it's this amazing balance and you've hit it in a couple different ways. One is this idea that you're out in the wild and it's hard and you have to be tough. But then you're living in London and you're like, well, I don't have to make life tough. I want to embrace the luxury and the comfort. And we had another guest you were talking about, Special Forces, one of our family members Rob Lively, who was the command sergeant major of the most elite Special Operations team in the US. And he turned his house into the lively resort and spa because he said, when I come home, why don't I should have a robe on and my house should smell beautiful and I should just enjoy it. And then you've kind of figured that out yourself. And then this other thing, this balance that you discovered of both being inspired by other people, by nature, by the experience. And then making it such a life journey to inspire others because I know you do a lot of talks to other younger people and try to inspire them to arouse or wake up that adventure in them. And then at the same time, understanding that while the advice of others is important, when you pause and you reflect and you ask yourself, there's such wisdom in you and being able to tap into your past experiences. So how do you deal with self-doubt? Because you must encounter a lot of self-doubt like all of us. Yeah, of course. I get through ways of self-doubt and I have to try to remind myself that I've been here before and that it's a familiar feeling. Because whenever I have, it's almost like a little process I have to go through. If I, the industry, I'm in not just the expeditions because obviously I have to get funding for the expeditions, but also the TV industry and maybe talks that you're trying to get or whatever it might be. Day to day, I go through quite a lot of a month or a week to week, a month or a week whenever it is, however good the month is. I go through quite a lot of rejection. And if it's a big rejection that you've been counting on, it can really put you back on the back foot. And sometimes if it's really big, you know, you will question us. I sort of have a couple of hours. I say a couple of hours of feeling like, really, really bad and a bit emotional, but sort of a bit angry as well. And thinking that you know, you have that self-doubt and imposter syndrome, maybe this is too big and maybe it's all going to, you know, it's all not going to work out. And then I don't know what it is whether it's after a sleep or whether another run or whatever. I come back and then it drives the fire underneath me and I might have been here before. We'll use this. So self-doubt is a, yeah, it's, I think you have to almost look in the mirror and face your doubts straight off. I think the worst thing happens when you're trying to put it off. So you've got that feeling of doubt lingering. You put it off and off and off and then it just, it just fests and invests you and it's like a virus isn't it? So with any doubt, I try and just rip it off like a bandaid and try and figure out why I'm feeling like that. It's so funny though because at TIGNUM, we're always studying how to build systems to help people do things that you just described. Like, recognize and embrace self-doubt, stare it in the face, tap back into previous successes, continuously build your self-belief bank, shift your mindset from this emotionally driven and you figured it all out. So you're like, you're like if I was searching in the, in the forest and I found this creature that was born TIGNUM and I'm like, how did this person already have all this? Like this is incredible. So I wanted just to ask you a question because you go on these amazing expeditions. You're gone for 200 plus days. You're out on your own. You're unrescutable. More or less. How do you prepare? What does your preparation look like? Yeah, I mean the preparation is a lot and I also really enjoy the preparation. It's what I think makes my, what I do quite different sometimes is I get such a kick out of at the start. It will be an idea and that could be an idea. It could just be a name of a place that gets my imagination going that I want to figure it out. It could be the fact that there's so little research done about it and I want to be the one to figure it out and make the impossible possible. And you start from that feeling of just being inspired and being excited about something and work backwards. So I mean there's the usual, there's the usual preparation that you can imagine, which is like planning as much as you can, a route and maths and if you need resupplies, safety things, then there's the training or physically, whatever that might be, the long endurance stuff, going without food, water on moments so that you're ready for anything like that. And then of course courses, medical courses, whatever skills, courses that you need further. But the big one I think is because you are often, you know, on every exhibition there is a life and death threat, some more than others. You have to accept that and it's a part that you come too close to for comfort and that my mum and dad, my mum especially definitely doesn't like to hear about. And then you have the moments of thinking why and earth you hear, but you have to prepare for it. for it mentally. And so I mean the months, the months ahead, 'cause you're so immersed in what's gonna happen. You start to build up this whole image and this whole vision in your head, I suppose, about what the days will be like, what the struggles you're gonna face. And I really do go through a bit of a visualization technique and okay, if this happens, how am I gonna feel? And I do, it's almost like I try and make it a muscle memory way in mentally, with that makes sense. And then, okay, if someone in my team, if a snake bites, what am I gonna have to do, not just in terms of what I do, I have to think about, well, I'll be sort of daydreaming about my muscle memory of, right, I've got to get my ruckset off, I've got to get, this bit is gonna be in the top of my bag, so I've gotta do that first, then I've gotta be telling someone else to chop a tree down to get a sat phone and all this sort of thing, so that you can just prepare mentally for any scenario. And then when you're out there, you try not to think because you've mitigated as many risks as you possibly can. There's absolutely no point thinking about what could go wrong once you're there, unless it's unexpected problems that come your way. And so I really try and bring in optimism all the time, and perhaps soon optimism, because as soon as you start to think that you can't do it, or this is too much, that's too late at that point. And if you start to think that is a slippery slope, so tools on that, I mean, we'll talk about it in a bit, but the explorers of my concepts really, really comes in and they're trying actually use that playbook myself in day to day life and on expeditions. - Yeah, it's incredible. You're giving us some insights into how you have, how you have such maturity and such calmness in these situations. And the tool that you talked about using visualization, we often use it to build experiences, knowing that when you encounter something, if your brain doesn't have an experience, you're kind of in that unknown zone where panic can set in. But what you've done is create all the what-ifs. You've actually visualized it. It sounds like you've even visualized what you described it perfectly, what you feel, but it might even be, I feel myself losing my shit a little bit, then I see myself get calm again, and then I start directing people, okay, chop the street down, we're gonna need to do this. And now, when if that situation were to occur, your brain just immediately goes, "Ben here before, drop that plan in, I'm ready." And so you start your expedition in a prepared state, no one, I think I'm ready for everything. But you still must come up on stuff you never thought of. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. - No, no, of course. And I think the lead actor, you almost have to become a bit of a pessimist. You have to think, "Oh, like you said, the what-ifs, you have to think of everything that could possibly go wrong." So that once it does happen, it doesn't only on the trip, or you're ready for it. But yeah, things happen. Things happen that you might not prepare for it. What do you do in that scenario? Well, you also, I guess you also practice for that scenario to come up. So, okay, well, I mean, it's just like any, you might, you know, more than ever with being a five-foot firefighter, right, you've got to, first thing, you've got to do with anything, whether it's a medical situation or a root problem or a environmental problem. Yeah, you've just got to stop. You've just got to stop and take a step back first because you can't do anything when it's you and you're in, in that panic mode and you've got to take into everything else. And oh, your surroundings and have discussions, the team, people, everything, as we all know, people, everything, and even more so when it's your life, you're trusting your lives with each other. And when I'm a leader as well, I'm not, I feel like just as not the stereotypical explorer, not the stereotypical leader, but everyone has their own leader strengths within them. And I use my leader strengths and I sort of really nurture those, especially on the long expeditions, so that when, or if something terrible happens, we are all very well prepared and they know that they can trust me, but I can get their real and honest opinions. And the beautiful thing about doing these expeditions and adventures in the wild is, there's no hiding. There's no, you get the raw, raw relationships with people. And it's like a catalyst to really get to know the true person who you really are. So I've mentioned that eight-year-old self. Who were you when you were eight years old? Because often when you go to these environments where you're out of your comfort zone or you're at least in the natural world and very connected with the wild, people go back to the person who is at their place, who is at their core, and who I think is always that eight-year-old self. And I know I'm going off on a tangent a little bit, but we're often when I speak to people who are very, very successful in their businesses, whatever it might be, but if they're successful and passionate in their businesses, there's always some little nugget which can relate them to their childhood loves whatever it might be. And I think it's quite an interesting thing to think about. But that was a tangent, so I thought it was a spot. But I do have to ask you, and I'm sure you get asked this question because since most of us will never go into the uncharted Amazon jungle, can you give us, and you're so humble, so I know that you don't want to often probably share some of these experiences in real life. But give us an example of one of the things you encountered where you drew upon this, you know, practiced optimism and you managed it and it could have been life or death. It could have gone in a different direction. Would you mind sharing an example of that? - Yeah, and of course, I guess the one that springs to mind towards the end of the 50 day exhibition you mentioned, it was probably day 47, something like that. And we heard, I was more surprised than anyone that we were actually, I'd actually got that far by the day to day we were coming very close to things going wrong and out there, one twist of the ankle, that's the exhibition over with let alone a broken leg, and that's a real problem. Because obviously then they have to try and figure out how to evacuate someone in the jungle that's very, very difficult. So I was so surprised that we'd even got that. And I was treading very, very carefully. Walking on eggshells to make sure the last few days, the last few kilometres would get it be safe. And we're going through the mountains, the jungle mountains, that on that day, we hadn't seen sunlight in absolutely weeks at this point our bodies had been wet for, you know, almost two months and rotting and starting to eat ourselves. And just getting very, very fatigued and running low in energy. And we were going off down these mountains. And the jungle in this area, you have to, 3pm, you have to start looking for a spot to put your hammock up and make camp. And that sort of takes some time because you have to prepare this sort of small area to make camp. And 3pm, the wildlife come out. And by that I mean jaguars and big cats and bushmaster snakes, which are very venomous, deadly snake, the biggest, the one thing that my team most afraid of. And they're 12 foot long, but they're invisible. And we'd had some very close encounters with these. And they also whistle. So these are whistling deadly snakes. And they travel in pairs and they are known to chase you. There's all these things. And they'd been sort of taunting us this whole time, whistling at us through the mountains. And we'd always been quite good by 3pm, getting off the ground or around them and having a safe space. And the maps that we were using. So this area, very, very unexplored, 50 years old. And these were taken by a pilot 50 years ago who took some pictures 50 years ago and drew what he could see. So they were very inaccurate. And they kind of be so thick that Google Maps wasn't what I called GPS stuff. So it's all down to us to sort of move through, very, very slowly through this vegetation and then figure out if we can get across. And it was getting close to 3pm. And we were going, coming back to come down this mountain when there's a huge ravine. So it's impossible. So that, for a morale perspective, means you have to go back on yourself, which is a really horrible thing to do. When you're so tired after climbing up the mountain, so we had to go back on ourselves, which meant timing was time the clock was ticking. And then a torrential or hawk wasp, which is this huge, huge wasp, when one of the sting is on as bad as a bullet ant. It doesn't usually sting usually. It's usually quite a dose cell, but on this occasion, it's stung me right in the eye. And it was agony, but you have no choice, which continue, we had to get down the mountain another way before the snakes come out. And before it gets dark, and you need some way to sleep. You can't just, you can't just like, there's no good enough tree, no tree is good enough to swing a hammock on the side of a mountain. We had to get down. And then the busmaster snake whistle started to come as it's getting really dark. And it was all getting very tense. And everyone's very scared. And eventually, we find a sort of small waterfall at the end of the bottom of this mountain that we just climbed up, quickly put the hammocks up. And it was the first time I sort of took myself off from the team and had just a bit of an emotional release, because it was just for almost 50 days feeling so, so having to be like your senses are so heightened in the jungle, you're having to look not just in front of you, but you're having to be aware of what Put your hands on, put your stand on, what's above you, what's the noises, everything. And on top of that, because they're responsible for the lives of these four men, so I was with four Indigenous men. They were my team, all explorers as well. I'm a stag, but yeah, it was just getting a lot. And so on that occasion, I actually allowed myself to sort of have that release. And then that's sometimes just what you need, you know, the Sanchez, what you need. And then I just did it privately, so the team can see, went back and then cracked on. I think it's, yeah, that it can get, it can get sort of just like yourself skating and sometimes on these adventures, you feel like you have a year's worth of emotion in just one day. But it also makes me feel so alive as well. So I don't know, I like that feeling of, you get a lot for your, for your every minute of the day, you get a lot, get to go through a lot. - Yeah, that was a lot. In fact, I'm laughing because I'm thinking, I always thought Indiana Jones, I'm like, oh, come on, this is so stupid, that could never happen. You just made Indiana Jones look like a joke, which is in itself kind of funny. But also, you know, you talk about these wells of emotions. And like you said, you know, you have, you have unbelievable amount of fatigue. This idea of having to turn around and go backwards, just what that does to the mindset. You know, all of us that have worked on bold projects have also had to backtrack and then you think, God, I feel like we've already been here. What are we doing? Not quite to the intensity of what you just described. And then, you know, sometimes we need that emotional release. You know, you can call it a pity part or you can call it whatever. But you know, that's where, I don't know about you, but my eight year old Scott would be like, I quit, this is it, I can't go on. And yet your eight year old self says, now get your stuff together, get the crew together. Let's figure this out and let's move forward. It's just thank you for sharing that. That's an incredible story. I might have nightmares about whistling snakes. So I'm going to tell you that. No, I still do. I still hear them. But you, you sort of touched on the sort of that one mental battle of like, when you go back on yourself, it really isn't, sometimes it's really not a big deal, but something, there's this mental barrier about it. It's just like, have you, have you heard of the term, leaders legs? No, I never have. Okay, so leaders legs or losers legs. I'm sure a lot of people in this call have experienced it. So whether it's your cycling or your cycling in a group or your walk, you're going to hike, let's say, you're going on a hike and you are at the front and you're at the front and you don't really want to look back. You suddenly look back and you realise, oh, I'm quite, quite far ahead. And then you feel even stronger. You just keep going and you suddenly get these leaders legs where everything's great and you feel great and it's awesome. You can be that exact same person, but realise you're at the back and you suddenly you feel like, oh, I just, I just feel really awful and you're starting getting, you'll start going slower even. And so it's always easier to be at the front, even if it happens back to you and then that will make you continue. But when you're at the back, it's much harder to push yourself through. But it is just a mental barrier. So that always happens, I think. It's always horrible to be at the back of anything. So you have to remind yourself that it's just a weird barrier that seems to happen. Yeah, but what's cool about it is the way that you've learned that's a mindset. So you've almost learned that this is what I feel physically but this is actually what's happening in my mind. And this is a mental battle to win, not a physical fatigue thing to overcome. And like I said, I mean, I'm just blown away by how you've learned this, by experience and you've learned this at such a young age, it's just incredible. And I know we have a ton of questions coming in. So I'm going to ask Ange to get our members involved in this discussion because I think the questions are just flying right now. So Ange, any great questions coming? Yeah, we certainly have. We've got a lot. I'm going to sort of link up a couple of questions because some people have sort of asked similar things. So this one's a combination from Laura and Tina. And it's about teams. So how have you managed a difficult person within the team during an expedition? There's clearly no way to escape. And how do you choose and prepare that team for what's coming up? Yeah, so difficult people. When it's my, if it's sort of expeditions that arrive my own, I guess, baby, so to speak, that I'm very carefully picking that group and the team. I go with very small groups of people who I trust very well. But if there's a problem person then, I have to figure out what that problem is. Often it's because they're struggling for something. Are they struggling because they need some extra role and extra purpose? Because what I often find is, so even let's go back to the Amazon, for example, yeah, and with four indigenous guys who, three of them, I knew from previous adventures, named by them along. And another one I was sort of recommended who wanted to come. And I thought, you know, you obviously think that they're going to take in their stride because they don't spend loads and loads of times on long expeditions in the jungle, but their skills in the jungle are second to none and things like that. They'll be fine. But within, you know, within a week, they were really, really struggling. All of them, but one realized that this is much harder than they expected. And they started to want to, want to leave. But one of them was quite difficult and sort of making others sort of side with him. And I had this sudden threat that I never actually visualized when doing that to the visualization. But I realized that four of them might, as soon as we got to the first major river, which is still in the middle of nowhere, but there was potential for them to build a raft and leave. Go downstream and completely leave the exhibition. So suddenly I was put in front of, oh my gosh, everyone might just leave. And so there was a case about getting, I think it's a case about getting everyone on your same vision, getting everyone realising they're all part of this journey and getting them to be excited by the end. And that it isn't just your goal, everyone's goal reminding them of that. And eventually managed to get it and getting people to really learn and have some sort of role each day by day. So there wasn't the opportunity to let their mind maybe wander and be extra focused. And how do I choose groups of people? I like to give people who I've seen in that tested personly and I feel like I'm quite a good judge of characters. So I try to go with people who are on the same wavelength and who are quite calm in situations as well. And have that passion for wanting to do it. Hungry for it. And this one's from Ross and he says, you know, I'm sure you hit moments where you're thinking, oh, I just don't want to keep going or, you know, I'm exhausted. How do you overcome that? Have you reached them and how do you overcome them? What do you do? Yeah, I've definitely reached it. But at the time, I've always made sure that I didn't actually even say those words in my mind. I almost, I think, have learned to be able to block out the exact language like, oh, I can't do it when I'm there. Just because I know it, if I start thinking like that, then it's, you mind wonders and your mind goes into quite a dark place. And yeah, I just train, I always just train, I had this block and this filter to try and put it a positive spin on it when I'm out there, which is, yeah, I guess takes, takes practice in the way. And that leads into this question from Yamara, what strategies do you use to maintain that focus and resilience? How do you, how do you keep your mind focused on what you want it to be on? Yeah, and the three ingredients that I sort of talk about a lot when I go to schools or it's talked to companies and things like that is the explorers mindset. What makes the explorers mindset the first one is embracing the unknown. And how do you enrich the unknown? Well, I think I like to turn everything on its head a bit like what I just said is how boring would life be if it was just, you know, you knew exactly what was going to happen all of the time. So we're now on expedition here, would I rather be here with some uncertainty and danger on an adventure or would I be, rather be in a safe space knowing exactly what tomorrow is going to look like? And of course, you know, the answer straight away. And yeah, try and make it exciting. And then the resilience side of things, I think resilience, we're all born with it, all of us are born with, like, with being resilient. We all have that ability to be resilient. We wouldn't be here if we weren't. But the trick is, and of course, it's a buzz word now resilience, but for good reason. I think with the resilience we have to constantly top it up, maybe not each day, but each week. That's just a small act, because I think of actively putting ourselves in uncomfortable situations. And that can be as small as taking the stairs rather than left. You hear a lot about these trends of people. It's more than a trend now because of the benefits of it. But for example, that cold water plunging or showers, why is that got so popular? Not just because of the health benefits, but because you're not really wanting to do something at that moment, but you're forcing yourself, your mind is becoming stronger at forcing yourself to do it. And little, little moments like that, I think, on a regular basis, build that resilience in us. So I think it's just a process. I think it's just a process. And it's the same with the whole optimism thing. Optimism isn't about being happy all the time. It's about really persevering and not giving up until you can find a solution, really. Because you'll always find a solution eventually. And so just practicing that on a regular basis, and what's the opposite of being optimistic is being a pessimist. No one wants to be that. And that doesn't even help us, even if it's true, to think on the negative side. You should always try and put spins on it. How has being an explorer, how has it changed you? And how has it transformed your perspective on life and humanity's place in the natural world? Yeah, no, good question. I mean, you hear, I'm very, I'm very optimistic about the beautiful world. And you can get very scared about the future. But I also really, I think because of the places I've been to, it can either go one way or the other. Because I often go to the place on the front line of the climate crisis, for example. And you could very easily feel quite helpless in a way here, you're at these places. I've seen, especially the Arctic, being going back to the Arctic for 12 years now, multiple times a year. And the changes I've seen, it's, you know, you can't question it, but it has changed each year. And I'll be speaking to people out there and they'll say it with tears in their eyes, it's just a desperation of this change. And, you know, five years ago, it used to be just there that you would see it and feel it so much. But now it's everywhere, isn't it? And a lot of people with hell, well, wouldn't, don't you feel like we're just at the end of the world? And well, actually, these places that you get, they're so inspiring. You know, we live on this paradise of a planet, that's what inspires me. And I'm so excited about this generation, my generation and the one that's beneath the loathing, because I really feel this, this, this, like, desperate desire to make a better future. And I know, and I know what keeps, what makes me excited about humanity is that we have the tools, and yes, it can feel like we're going backwards a lot of the time. But I feel like this is a blip and I feel like we're going to get that because you, yeah, it's got to happen. So it will, we can drive it that way. And this is a lovely one from JD. What is the scariest moment you've had in the wild? I mean, does it get any scarier than the, the hissing snakes? But also, what is the most beautiful moment you've had? Good, good one. And scariest moment, climbing some 7,000 meter peaks in Tajikistan, I went there with a good, good boyfriend partner and climbing partner back a few years ago. And we went there, and the mountain was just falling apart again, because of the climate crisis, it was just, it was so unstable. And I'm talking, you know, I'm talking rock falls and avalanches constantly, and having really sketchy moments there. And we were on the mountain for a month. Just just a sort of a few dozen climbers, different climbers doing this peak. And we're dropped off by a Russian helicopter. They do two drop-offs by this one helicopter, and then they come back about later. And the entire, the entire expedition, the entire month, I just had this awful feeling that something bad was going to happen. And we had some close, close things with rock falls. And yeah, it was a very, very scary time. And eventually it comes to the point where the helicopters come to collect us. And we were always due on the, on the second helicopter ride. And I just had this almost, like, amplifying, like, this loud voice in my head saying, you've got to get off this mountain as quickly as possible. So I, it took quite some doing, and I forced us on. I really had to fight to get us on the first helicopter and get us on, because there were two seats available, but they weren't going to let us on. And we managed to do it. And we got on, and it was a very scary helicopter ride. Very, very old. Like, it was a too high, too much, like, way too high altitude for it to be flying. It was, it flew so close to the glacier, but we, you know, we were holding hands looking at each other, get us off this mountain, and we got off and we'd safe. And then the next day, the helicopter, we were due to be on, crashed and killed, killed five people on board. And it was just that feeling. Got, got wrenching, but also just feeling so, you know, like grateful to be alive. And it was the first expedition where it just felt like, oh, we're, are we playing with fire here? Like, I should we be doing this? And we, we got back, we just went into this flat London, we sat on top of Alexander Palace Hill, a hill that looks over over London, but just so grateful to be alive. So that was very the scariest, definitely the scariest moment. And it was one of those reminders to listen to that gut instinct, because I didn't know what was very gone there, but it was, it was telling me. And then the most beautiful moment, it was probably, probably a moment. The one that reached out is doing ski mountaineering after that. I just didn't know how to see her as in California, with, again, with Tim and one of our best friends. And we'd been out, it was only a 10 day little adventure, but it, it turned into so much more than that. And we, you go through so many highs in those on these little adventures, but because I was just with two people, absolutely loved sharing this experience with one day that we got up to this, over this mountain, we thought we were going to, you know, wasn't going to be possible that day. It was early morning and just looking over and just feeling like this is the, so grateful to be able to have skills and have the friends to be able to do this and be in such a beautiful, physical place that's just very tail. So that's probably one of the most beautiful. How, how do you balance this, this one's from Rebecca, how do you balance your passion for exploration and an adventure with, with the practical considerations? So the, you know, the financial side of it, the personal responsibilities, like how your family feel about you doing this. Yeah, I mean, the financial side, I think I have always just accepted that's part of it. So I have to use that as part of the journey, really. It's part of the journey. If I want to do the next edition, I've got to find a way to do it. And it's part of the challenge in the way and finding people, people, companies who align with the values that I have, what I can give them. I find, I enjoy it and it gets me, gives me satisfaction as well. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a challenge. So it's, it's fun in that respect. The other, the price of care is this is my family. I mean, I remember very specifically, I just done a first high altitude, you know, I was learning how to do high altitude mountaineering. And it was when GoPro just came out and had this amazing GoPro footage and I was showing, I was standing in the kitchen on the laptop showing my dad's, this is some years, many a few. And I was, he was looking at it, sort of thinking, oh my goodness, what, what, what she'd done with the, what was she doing now? And he made a, made a little throwaway comment, like, oh, you can't do this forever. Remember that almost like he was trying to protect me. And it really just drove me, drove me on to be like, I like, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can do it, I can. And ever since, you know, even though my mom and dad have faced really horrible moments of me phoning up just before I lost complete signal for three weeks, I feel the Arctic saying, I can't breathe because I was suddenly having cold cold asthma attack. I never had it and never had it before and never had it again. And asking advice from Dr. Martin and just losing signal for three weeks, moments like that, that worried them. But then because my other love is filmmaking and that's what I've sort of joined the two. So now I'm running the two, which is like a dream, dream country really. So I've always filmed my adventures ever since the first one. I've been filming since, I've been filming since I've turned his home. And just because I really want to, again, it goes back to that feeling of you, we're not on this planet very long. I really like to capture moments. And I feel like that is when they see these moments of me with this smile on my face, they realise they can't. That's this smile that I don't do in normal day life. I think we'll actually go just on a little bit of a tangent. One of the things I absolutely love about these adventures is it's like going back in time in terms of it is like a time capsule. As soon as I'm out on these adventures, I feel like time has not passed. And you are the, you're sort of this, this age that never, this, this, feeling of ageing, never-aiding because you go back to this feeling so youthful and curious about the world and it's such a beautiful feeling. So it's one of the reasons I love it, I think. I love that. Have there been, this one is from Yamara again, what have been the unexpected challenges or setbacks early in your career and what have you done to overcome them? Yeah, I mean I didn't realise just how much I would have to defend myself and just how much because I think it is, I really do, sadly, think it's because I'm a woman. People doubt you a lot and think that it can't be true what you've said or maybe you didn't do it as extreme as you said or something like that and there's constant having to defend what you've done your actions and then I realise there's a point where you don't have to, you don't, it doesn't matter if people don't know like the right people do and that's okay. So that was quite, that was quite hurtful I guess sometimes just happens a battle with that, just people putting you down and you know people say she can't do, she's not going to be able to do that or you'll be talking to someone in country trying to get this ambitious route or make logistics and they think that you're, you know, they can't even visualise what you're talking about because you surely can't do that and so having to really like have, I've got so much experience from dealing with that it's ridiculous. So now what I do is I just have to, I just have to almost expect it and not, not let it bother me but sometimes it does, it always does. I can imagine and you know you've done and seen so much, this this one's from Tina but is there one adventure, is there one place that's still on your bucket list that you haven't yet tackled, maybe something that's cooling for you, waiting for the right moment. Yeah and the beautiful thing is that the world's such a big place, there's so many places and I've got a site's little black book of things that I want to do, one of the big ones that just seems like quite far away from my reach at the moment is big exhibition up in the mountains and the remote part of Antarctica just surely because of you know cost, it's cost a lot to go to those places but then there's big exhibitions across Papua New Guinea that I want to do, yeah so much but yeah I play this remote area in Antarctica that I found out that has this very interesting research potential that could really affect the whole world that I would have tried that I would love to do, yeah that's something that I would love to be involved with and tell that story but yeah we'll see. Yeah and let me just wrap it up here and Lucy I have a question for you because you talk so much about some of the struggles but what can you just describe to us the feeling at the moment that you finish an expedition, you've gotten out of this you know bush or whatever you are, the dangerous situations, what does that feel like at that moment? Oh it's euphoric it's you just feel so happy and so lucky to be not just alive but have the life that you lead and just grateful you just feel you're feeling on top of the world but it's also this huge relief as well you can you can relax and you just everything just is exciting how amazing is it that we can be in our houses feel safe don't have to worry when you know we get out there's the loo we can switch from a kettle like it's amazing the life that we can lead now and not forgetting that as well you know we have an abundance of like so many things and life is yeah life is amazing and so I think sometimes you have to suffer a little bit in order to provide ourselves with that. Yeah you take nothing for granted so your documentary is going to come out for those of us in the States will we be able to see it and and what we will see on that documentary? Yeah so the States we are we I don't know what channel yet but it is we have a district so we have BBC Studios as a distributor selling to the States so I'm not sure what one it will be but it will be two part series this first one and it will be all about that whole expedition I mean talking about a lot of the at the Amazon so you're definitely here the whistles of that snake that that forms a forms a thread throughout. I can't wait and I love on your website you know you have the statement it's just going to be emboldened in my brain life is the expedition and that an expedition is a journey undertaken by a group of people with a particular purpose especially that of exploration or research we have so many of our founding members that are trying to cure cancer do amazing things in the world and it's just like that is such a great description of not just the people that we have but also the type of people that you're touching and inspiring in and I found today to be so inspirational so I want to just thank you for the conversation your insights are incredible thank you to the members for your great questions and thank you again Lucy you're incredible no thank you so much for having me and really appreciate it thank you for listening to the TIGNUM thoughtcast if you've enjoyed this or any of our other thoughtcast episodes please subscribe so you don't miss out on future releases if you'd like to get in touch with TIGNUM please email us at [email protected] until next time be bold be more and keep ruling your impact