ADHD & The Power of Creative Expression (Part 2)

You're listening to ADHD Support Talk Radio. ADHD Support Talk is brought to you by ADDClasses.com. Visit www.ADDClasses.com to sign up for free webinars and online events today. Well, hello and welcome back to ADHD Support Talk Radio. I'm your co-host, Lynn Idris, and as a Productivity and ADHD coach, I help overwhelmed professionals reduce procrastination, improve time management, and get more done with less effort, so that they have more time, energy, and more bandwidth for what matters most to them. As you guys know, I'm a woman with ADHD myself, so I have been where so many of you are, and I've come out the other side, so to speak. I've gone from living in that constant state of chaos and overwhelming underperformance to live a life of more success and fulfillment that I once dreamed was possible. And I believe every single one of you can share the same success yourselves. You can learn more about me, what I do, and the programs and services I offer at www.coachingadvantages.com. And if you'd like to join my next online Productivity and Time Management workshop, you can simply text the keyword Productivity to the number 33777 to find out about the next free event. This is part two of my two part series with Danny Donovan on ADHD in the power of creative expression, where we talk about ADHD and the importance of self-awareness and self-acceptance, and Danny gets real about life with ADHD in our common experiences. For those of you who don't know Danny, Danny Donovan is an ADHD content creator, artist, and comedian who brings awareness and acceptance to those of us with ADHD through a variety of creative outlets, including insightful comics, infographics, videos, and other graphic expressions. You can learn more about Danny and what she does at www.adhd.com or support her work at patreon.com/dannydonovan, d-a-n-i-d-o-n-o-v-a-n. So welcome back, Danny. I hope this is an okay question to ask, but tell me what role this creative outlet has for you in making your ADHD symptoms either easier to manage or different to manage? I mean, in terms of ADHD impact on your life, having this outlet be something that's part of your life every single day, I can imagine that would have a pretty significant impact. It's awesome. I cannot emphasize how relieving it is to, if I'm having a bad day, that, I mean, that sucks, but I can write about my bad day and people go, "I have that same day today." Oh my god. And it's really, it confersus really is the word. I mean, I don't do it. I was saying with every, I don't, every single thing isn't always on the internet, but the hard experiences for me now, I am able to have the self-awareness to kind of analyze them for like what they are. I think to myself, is my ADHD in play here? Is this something that other people also go through? You know, can I relate this back to symptoms or can I relate this back to tendencies? What is it that's actually at play here? I would say like self-awareness has definitely increased because now I'm paying attention to what I do because I'm realizing more and more everything that I do in some way, you know, seems to be related to this. And so when I'm being really hard on myself, especially, like this is such an understanding community. So I really feel so much support and reassurance for going through what I'm going through, but it's not me just posting it so that I get that reassurance, it's posting it so that other people know, again, you're not alone in this experience, and I just love when other people share those types of stories because I feel like every day now, I just have a new thing that just clicks for me. And when you can understand yourself in certain terms and you're able to put together these pieces and connections that routinely like happen again and again and again, and that's really where the, what's it, the meat of my content comes from is when I notice myself going through the same cycles and I beat, I used to beat myself up and be like, oh, I always do this. And now I stop and I go, I always do this. And I think that even, I'm going to specifically kind of call out one of my comics, which is this rejection sensitivity one called, are they mad at me? And it's got these two targets and one of them says, you know, what my brain thinks, you know, and it's like, yes, they're mad and they're, you know, it's just kind of like a huge thing in the middle, a huge target in the middle that says, yes, and like all the arrows are sticking in there. And on the other side says like, no, they had a bad day or like mildly annoyed, right? And so every time I have co-workers kind of whispering and my brain would automatically go to this place of they're talking about me, what did I do wrong? Right. Thinking in my head, like, I remember that comic, I like see it in my head, I'm like, ooh, my brain's bored and it's making stuff up. I don't know what's going on, you know, I'm just assuming ill intent. And so I think it has a really powerful way of kind of grounding me in a lot of those experiences. And that's huge. It's so much of our ability to manage ADHD but affect self-awareness, right? Understanding your own patterns, understanding where you get yourself stuck, knowing ahead of time or knowing in the moment that, okay, this is I've been here before. And the thing I always tell my clients, yes, you've been here before and you have a 100% survival rate so far. So, I love it. Right? Like, if you do this a little bit. And let's look at it a little bit more objectively. My ADHD coach had actually the biggest thing that has kind of stuck in my mind and I have to remind myself of this all the time is I was beating myself up for so long for my lack of consistency. Right. And she goes, well, what if for you consistency looks like inconsistency? Right. What if inconsistency is the one thing that you can count on? What would it feel like to not feel bad about that? I just had this moment where, oh, so you mean if I start some productivity to do a list system and I stop using it within a week and I find something else that I don't have to beat myself up for not doing this anymore. And in fact, the reality is that like, I am just no longer expecting myself to stick with that kind of stuff. Just knowing that you're adding it to a toolbox and that when one thing stops working, you can either find a new thing or go back to something else that worked and it really keeps that novelty, which is ADHD brains really needs sometimes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Knowing what about that tool in particular was helpful for you and then you can go and place it. And that's big, right. That's a big part of the self acceptance and that letting go of doing it the right way. I'm using my 40 fingers. I can't see. Going into the right way, doing it perfectly, doing it the way you should. Right. It's okay. I changed what my to do list specifically look like. The system is the same, but what today's to do is look like, you know, can be different any week. The principles the same. The promises are the same, but sometimes I need to use bright pink paper. Sometimes I need to use an app. Sometimes I, you know, that'll give me just enough interest to stick with a little bit longer. And that's all okay, right. It's about acceptance and really understanding. So I love that. Like, inconsistency is not just okay, but to be expected, right. To expect that you're going to get bored with something and need to change. I mean, that's a big self awareness. That whole idea of my own internal expectations versus my internal reality or my, you know, external reality. That is what unhappiness is, right. Is when expectations are not being met. But I'm not someone that you can just say, like, lower your expectations. I'm like, Oh, okay, why didn't I do that earlier? No, it's not, you know, how it works for me. It's about, like, adjusting and being aware that I even have those expectations. I was a pre-evaluating, are those realistic, I don't always do this. Obviously, are those realistic expectations? I'm going to be okay if I don't meet those expectations, you know, like, because of like life will go on. But ultimately being less hard on yourself is so powerful, but it is truly a process that evolves over time as you have to like learn to forgive yourself and learn to like notice the good things and not just criticize all the stuff that we're doing wrong and understanding that like other people from the outside look like they have it all put together and even they don't have it all put together. And and kind of I actually have this one moment where I kind of, okay, everybody can't be everything, right? So if I spent like, yes, my house is not clean and yes, I don't spend as much time doing all this stuff that I feel like I'm using quotes to that I feel like I'm supposed to do, but at the same time, I make a lot of time for fun. Sometimes that fun comes with like a little guilt post it stuck to it, but I make time for fun. And I know people that spend lots of time cleaning who don't make time for fun. And so my brain I'm kind of thinking through like, would I rather be someone who has less time for fun, you know, like trying to balance, is this actually something I want or do I just want it all because nobody can have it. all there's only 24 hours in a day. Nobody is at all, right? And like thank goodness, we can't all be great filers. We can't all be like super organized, super detailed oriented, super healthy, or types, right? And also creative out of the box thinker. And I just very much had this again, that realization of like, well, I somehow, because I really love being unique and different than everybody. Like I take pride in being different than everybody. But I also want to be the same. And I want to fit in. So why am I not like everybody else, but also I still want to be different than everybody else. And noticing like those two things can't fully go together. So I realized, you know, if I was willing to trade the, was I willing to trade unique, even if I could, I don't think I could, but abilities and tendencies that I had and, you know, trade them for other things. It's like, okay, yes, I want to be more disciplined. But I also have tried so many things and found so much joy and hobbies. And my lack of inhibition led me to posting this thing on the internet that's now my career. And if it wasn't for, you know, that kind of activation energy that I get. And, you know, I know people who are more neurotypical, who would sit on it and, you know, maybe talk themselves out of it or wouldn't even, you know, start it at all. So that's why it blows my mind when people think people with ADHD don't try. I'm like, I try everything. I'm trying to many things. That's why I'm trying to. And we never stop trying. That's one of the things. No, it's important to remember too, right? We just resilience. Yes. That's one of the things I love about working with ADHD population is our, we are, we are incredibly resilient. And if you hadn't had that need for that creative outlet, that need for fun, that need for expressing yourself, then all of the people that you're reaching wouldn't have that common sort of experience that now helps them better understand, you know, who they are and, and why they do things the way they do. And even more importantly, that it's okay. It's this real power in that, in that vulnerability that everybody kind of thinks social media is this curated spot where you brag about your life and all the things you've accomplished. And I want to make everybody jealous. And certainly, in certain ways, right? There's certain people on their foot in their double cheek and their Facebook. I'm just saying. No, right? Yes. And there are other people that I was like, want to keep focus more on like now, keeping it real and showing that like, I like to be like the good, the bad and the ugly of having ADHD. And I, from very early on, did not want to just have only positive, like toxic positivity of ADHD and feel like I'm discrediting people's struggles or making them feel like, well, if you're not, if it's not a superpower, then you're not doing it right. You know, you're just not trying hard enough. You know, and we've heard that so many times and so you're wrong. Yes. I really wanted to make sure I'm representing and giving people this, you know, that validation that like, oh my gosh, this sucks a lot of the time. Like there are definitely pros to it. But I think that again, that validation of it's okay that you struggle with these things that feel basic to other people like laundry. And I'm not going to tell you how to do your laundry or I'm not going to give you strategies because you want to know what my life is a shit show. And that is one of my stuff is like relatable. And I'm not going to give advice because it would be every time I've posted a couple TikToks that I'm like, your worth is not measured in productivity. And it's true. And that day, I felt that way. But this last week, I did not feel that way and my brain goes, I'm a fraud. I can't in good conscience always be giving people advice that like I can't even follow. So I think my life up to that point had been like attempting to change myself and attempting to change my behavior feeling like I failed at that. And then being like, well, I read all these articles on how to fix it. I know what I'm supposed to do to fix it. I can't get myself to do those things. I'm even more of a failure. And so I think that telling people just to like, say sit in it as my therapist would say, but like sit with those bad feelings and like, look at them. And don't try to just immediately be like, what can I do to fix myself? What can I do to change myself? Like sitting there and looking at it. And like, I know for me, especially with how to ADHD her videos when I first started watching them, I was crying at so many of them. And they were sad. It was just hearing someone who was going through the same things that I was going through has this incredibly, like we said, kind of powerful effect. And so I think that the more people come out and are willing to show the realness and show the ugly and talk about their stories and their struggles and then feel the validation from people. It really sets off this whole ripple effect of, okay, well, I saw her do something. So I want to do something. And then this many people saw though, you know, and so before you know it, we're all having this collective conversation. And that is what kind of has stirred this extra, you know, community. It's hard, right? It's all, and that's, I think that's sort of the theme, right? This shit is real. Excuse my friends. It's really impactful. It is really painful sometimes, but it isn't something that you have to go through alone. It isn't something you have to deal with alone. And the fact that it isn't something that you have to hide, I think, is liberating isn't even like the word. Be okay with it. And people love you anyway. That's the biggest thing is that like I didn't love myself. And I thought that if I worked really harder, if I achieved a certain level of success, that I would love myself. And all of my self-worth was really dependent on what other people thought of me. And I, in that way, thought I had to be perfect or to look like I had my life together. And I think that there are people who like Renee Brooks and ADHD Alien and Jessica, like I mentioned, a lot of us who are very real about our, or at least on like Twitter, especially wanting to create conversations about certain topics. But then just going a whole rant about our life falling apart that week. And for people to see, like, oh, I look up to her. And she is having the same experiences I am having. And I think that all of us very much don't ever want to be put on any kind of pedestal of like, well, she's got her life together. So I need to have my life together. And it's like, no, I just want to make it abundantly clear that my struggles have just like shifted to like a different set of struggles. Because now I'm on my own boss. And that's extra hard. There's no accountability. Now accountability is like a whole different. I'm very good at deadlines. Now I don't have deadlines. So like all of my previous coping strategies are like thrown out the window. So I think that the man manifests itself in so many different ways. And when you get a hold of one of them, you're like, yeah, I did it. You know, and it's like a hydrohead. We're like another one just like pops off. So when you're like, oh man, he's whackable, right? Yes, you're never done. So I just down. There it is. Yeah. Or last for like a day. Right. I'll put it right back up. And you're absolutely spot on. I'm grinning ear to ear as you're like talking about that like the being real part. Anyone who knows anybody who works with me, I'm very honest and very open. But sometimes, you know, people on your newsletter list or whatever don't necessarily see that stuff. It's always the screw ups. It's always the, you know, I sent that too fast and I didn't realize the date was wrong or I got the wrong link or whatever. And then I, it's the retraction that I'm sorry I screwed up ADD moment, you know, shit happens. Here's the right link. Those are the things that I get responses from. Did you, I was going to say I did that for my Adobe talk where I said at the wrong time zones. And then I had to be like, oh, ADHD moment. And then people like, I just became a patron because of this. That was really, that was I don't have to do that. You know, yeah, that's what people connect with. And so, you know, it is, it is real. I'd love to say my house looks like an 80, like a HTTB, you know, yeah, the time. And maybe some days there are small pieces of it that like you can see behind me. Like that's, that's that stuff I use. It looks beautiful. I mean, right. On the one side, there's a bin full of eight pocketies. That gets you. Sometimes I forget to put it back when I have to do a video or whatever. But that's storage. Those are not books that are, I mean, you know, this side of my office and, you know, I know we're on a podcast or Danny can see my office. What I'm doing of a video, you're seeing, yes, it's my office. But my desk doesn't look like what's behind me, you know, what's in front of me. It's, it's functional organization. It's not, you know, I always joke, there's a reason my husband is like an engineer. He's like the least 80 HD person in the world. And his office, he also works from home. It's right inside the entrance to our home, inside glass, French doors. And he never leaves one of the one piece of paper on his desk. And when we first renovated this house, initially the plan was for mine to be on the other side of the entrance behind the same French doors. And I was like, yeah, no. You don't want my, my office. be in the first thing you know people see it's up stairs behind the salad door for a reason and that's okay it works for me and I'm okay with that and that's I think that self acceptance and that understanding that you're all alone and that understanding that you don't have to be perfect and that's okay because it's the not perfect parts of you that people love and can relate to yeah and celebrating it I think that celebrating imperfection whatever imperfection you know means to people I have a current I haven't posted it yet but I have this there's this this TikTok trends where people are like things in my minimalist home that just makes it so like things in my eco-friendly home that just makes it and then they have like this little tour of this stuff that they use and they're beautiful IKEA house or whatever and I'm making one that's like things in my 80 because my husband and I both have ADHD so it just like is yeah looks like a tornado came in you know thing and it's like things in our ADHD home that just don't make sense and it's just like me filming like I just did one on dishes right and if you go up the door bedroom and it's just like moldy coffee cups as far as the eye can see and like water bottles that we don't or like bottles we don't want to open because there might be coffees you know coffee is a big thing with us but having all these different you know dishes and it's like need to set this thing down just like move it out of the way it's a real time-saver you know where you can see very clearly I you know it's pretty much a tour of our home and the like incredible mess that it is but I know I'm like people are gonna see this and go oh my gosh my house is that messy yeah and she's not ashamed what I am but like she's not ashamed to post this incredibly messy house that my garrison criticism of people being like how can you live like that you know but knowing the majority of my audience will not judge me that's I think what the biggest thing is that like fear of judgment that fear of criticism that fear of shame induced by being around you know people are roommates or whatever it is that made you feel small that made you feel defective or what you assume other people think about you that's yes exactly in our heads more than it is really coming out anybody else's mouth and that's the worst part I think I was like pre-judgment assumed judgment judgment yeah absolutely we judge ourselves so much harder than a lot of people you know judges but it's this especially if you grew up for me like my parents are very clean and they never you know my mom and I kind of joke about this because she's bought me that you know clean my room and she's come in and I'd be sitting on the floor playing with this toy I found that I forgot I had you know like getting distracted while clean my room and then she's like oh I knew you just I just shove everything under my bed and she goes I knew you were shoving stuff on your bed but like your floor was clean I didn't care I wasn't gonna like force you to pull it out and you know deal with all of it because like why do I care so long as there's like rotting food under there you know right so I think that having this acceptance and I think too for parents of a ADHD stepson and ADHD stepmom and ADHD dad and so it's a very I mean it a little chaotic but for us to really have this understanding and empathy for each other of even when things bug you like I feel bad but like because I this is always the example I use because my husband doesn't have a lot of things that bug me that much but he leaves sometimes condom it's out on the kitchen counter and if I don't see them before I go to like they'll just I cannot tell you how many half full things of mayonnaise we've had to throw away because they got left out overnight because he opened it he said it back down and put a bucket and but I was conditioned when I was younger you know that like I'd be yelled at not yell that but like I'd get in trouble pretty much so that's not a habit that he formed and early on it was very easy for me to just be like can you just like just put it away like just like you're done using it just put it away right it seems so simple and as time went on and I realized I'm like your ADHD manifests in a different way than mine I'm not going to shame you about this anymore but this is this is the rule if we have to throw out something because it got left out like I'm not going to be mad but you're buying then like you buy a replacement on you and so that's a thing that has been reduced quite a little being a quite a bit but at the same time I am like how can I adjust my behavior and if if I can you know I'm walking through the kitchen or after we've eaten I'll just kind of go in and look and be like oh well this you know and just put it back myself because that takes two seconds he helps with so many other things and for instead of me thinking well you need to do this because you took it out you would put them in if you love me you would yes and meaning like well you literally always take the trash out so I guess I can put condom it's a way if I know just send me to help me. I remember we've been married for more than 32 years and as like naturally organized as my husband is and how he's so good at so many of the things just kind of naturally that I've always struggled with and I remember really early on him saying and I don't even remember what it was but like why can't you just put it in your calendar or why don't you just whatever and I remember a triggering phrase yeah just sort of crying and I said if it were that easy for me don't you think that I'm smart enough that I would have just done it that way and he was like I never really thought about it and I'm talking this is like probably year one year two of us being together and that was the end of that phrase like I I never heard that from him it would be you know how can you remember or how can I help you yes you know if that's that's a completely different like working relationship and that's what it makes it is obviously but it's a completely different dynamic it's a completely different it's really a level of acceptance but you've got to accept you first right yes you can't accept you then you can't expect other people to mean they should but the odds are good that you know that's a whole yeah that's a whole thing it's it's hard it's it's hard all the way around I think I think it's so important to have the conversations and I think that the the work that you're doing is bringing so much more awareness not just more awareness in terms of like two more people but a deeper awareness of a lot of the things that we don't talk about enough and I want to thank you anything anything you want to share with the listeners like you know last last then again tell people where they can learn more about you tell you know give out your website closing thoughts is really that I'd say power in you know obviously being yourself but that you know not fitting into the mold really it sounds so cliche but it's such a huge thing for us because I think in it if you think of innovators if you think of people who are top of their fields who are starting new things like they don't fit in a mold being different is a strength and learning to accept that makes it easier to stop comparing yourself to other people and it's really easy again I'm I'm asking this because I try to keep it as real as I can and I know that like being cliche and saying things and then truly believing them on a daily basis is different but learning to accept yourself is this journey of like one day at a time you know being forgiving yourself for one thing at a time and you maybe you're not perfect at it every day but if you make if you're making general steps in that direction over time you'll be able to kind of look back and see where you came from and maybe not even recognize those big you know difference because I've just we're impatient and we wanted to happen overnight and I want to jump from like I hate myself to I love myself you know in like a week and that unfortunately that's something that over time it's steps like finding your community finding pictures or words to express yourself finding resources that make it easier to accept yourself than sitting and trying to do it alone so I guess my closing thoughts are you're not alone and you don't have to do it alone and I look forward to seeing anybody who's listening to this in the comments or on the Nurettiver Squad hashtag on Twitter and let's start some conversations I love it I really am so you can find me at adhdd.com Danny.com also forwards to that and then patreon.com/dannydottedin Twitter everything if you just go to adhdd.com I've got links to all the all the things I really appreciate you having me on and love talking to you this is so much fun this is fun thank you so much and guys you found this helpful if you found it fun or enjoyable or whatever visit us on iTunes and leave us a review and some comments so that more people can find us as well it's this important work and you're doing a great job Danny thank you so much for being here I'm glad we could connect and I really enjoyed chatting with you thanks so much my pleasure and thank you all for listening as always I appreciate your attention and we'll catch you next time