ADHD Productivity That Actually Works

This is Rebel Mama Pog where we talk about what's not in the brochure about ADHD, midlife, burnout, and more. This is your host Sarah Castaneda. I've been interviewing experts and patients on this topic for more than seven years. Today we have with us Danny Donovan. Danny is an award-winning ADHD creator whose viral comics and TikTok videos helped build an online community of validation and solidarity from narrative-version adults. Welcome to the show Danny. Hello, thanks so much for having me. It's so great to have you here. Before we jump in, do you want to tell the listeners a little bit about your background? I'm sure they've seen your cartoons all over your comics. That's cartoon's not the right word. Oh, those are cartoons. Yeah, some of them are, so it's really funny because I've got the most like ADHD collection of random ways in which I've expressed my lived experience through ADHD at this point. I've been making about two years and then I'm like, "I'm bored. What's the new, what's the new thing?" For sure. I was a graphic designer for a really long time. I was a graphic designer at Gallup and I went to Art Therapy like a couple times and really enjoyed it. I ended up making a, how I tell stories, like a flowchart of like my complete disaster of a train of thought. I ended up seeing this huge response to it right away and so then after that went viral immediately, I started making more comics. I've got ADHD comics and infographics and I switched over and I started procrastinating making those comics by making ADHD TikToks. Then those started getting big and I started making ADHD jokes on tweets and short form content. So being able to sort of do the digestible insights, I always kind of say like a spoonful of meme humor helps the painful insights go down. So kind of getting into that like meme therapy, I guess. And then switching over into creating my activity book for procrastinators, the YouTube letter. Wonderful. So yeah, let's talk about this a bit. Let me talk about the toolbox approach, having 100 systems instead of searching for the one perfect method, which I love by the way it's so spot on. How do you actually put that in a practice when your brain wants to optimize all the things? Oh my gosh. That is the story of my life and I think that it comes down to making the decision that like I have like an operating system. And I just as much as I can try and finagle it and change things, there are certain tendencies that I have that are just going to be there. And one of those tendencies is to quit things is to be inconsistent. And so if my measurement of me doing a good job is going to be if I stay consistent at something forever, I'm going to always be disappointed in myself. I'm going to always feel bad and and so sort of changing that mindset over to be like, how can I set myself up for success by making sure that I'm. Picking a goal or picking a system that is naturally in line with how I'm acting anyway. And so for me and the anti planer ended up being like, it's this collection of over 100 different strategies activities and games on how to get stuff done. We don't feel like it, but I have really discovered that the toolbox approach, you know, people say like, oh, build a toolbox. And we don't really get into the weeds about what that kind of means. And now now I was going to say was that the mindset shift from figuring out what is the resistance that I'm facing. Why am I procrastinating? Why am I putting things off? If I can get to that. Why then I can figure out what tool I need because you know the type of resistance you'll get from a screw is different than something that you'll get from a nail. You know, you could get a screw into the wall with a hammer, but you're not going to have a good time. But if you are able to then find what the resistances and a tool that is specifically tailored to fix that problem. You're going to have a higher chance of success. And so I think that like. Scoping it into how do I set myself up for success by both leaning into my existing tendencies and understanding that the approach that I take being tailored to the problem having makes a huge difference. Totally. I love that so much. And you just talked about that how you're using one type of medium to procrastinate with and you're working on this. And I just love that. The second question, a lot of ADHD productivity advice still carry shame. Just try harder. You're lazy, et cetera. How did you design the anti planner to validate instead of criticize? So the reason why I self published the book was truly like started from this place of being afraid that a publishing house was going to like water it down or someone without ADHD was going to make me take stuff out. And I like really, really did not want to have that because it was so important to me that like this message gets across crystal clear. So much of it is I know this is a book about productivity. This is a book about having you know how to get more stuff done. But the point is because like you're because you want to because you're excited to get stuff done that because you're like afraid you have to get stuff done so many of us with ADHD have built our entire like coping strategy, you know, manual up to this point. And based on shame motivation people being mad at me is a very big motivator for me to get me to get me to get together worrying about disappointing others disappointing myself and but they're really or like last minute panic. So we're tapping into that like a migdala based emotions motivation and so being able to say all right, if that's what we're already doing, how can we understand it a bit more so that we can maybe take some of those. The reasons why they work so like I've got a section in the book on like lacking accountability, how difficult it is to get stuff done we don't have external deadlines or people won't know or care if you do it or not like no one's going to like give you crap for not going to the gym, you know, and how do we put stuff in place though that can kind of like emulate those in like a fun approach instead of something that's going to consistently caution because you're absolutely right that like so many of us received just so many messages about not you know not trying hard enough being lazy and that steep kind of into our self esteem. So that back part of the book the discourage section is hopeless and like insecure and there's a lot of stuff that has to do with rewriting these storylines that we've gotten from all this baggage about like quote unquote failed attempts at productivity in the past. Yeah for sure and what does emotional where design mean to you how do you build for how ADHD brains actually work rather than how we're told they should work. I actually stumbled into the navigation for this I call it a book it's like part activity book that part like game is a guide you don't have to read the whole thing you don't have to like write in it like it's a very interesting kind of. System but the main thing that I wanted to get across was like how do I help people navigate this how do I help them identify what the tool is that they need and so like I talked about earlier the resistance. Identifying how we're feeling is so difficult like I've been therapy for a decade and it's still not easy for me and so what I kind of did is figuring out all right if people need to find the tool based on the resistance that we need to you know. Have the resistance is easy to identify and there I found like 16 different sub emotions after I was brainstorming like what are all the different reasons I don't want to get stuff done and that kind of found them in these categories and then realize all right well 16 is too many to pick between still like I don't want to have someone go okay I want to get something done and then go well now I have paralysis over not knowing I'm just going to throw my hands up I'm overwhelmed I'm done like I because I have been there that's me. So I'm like I understand you so if it would overwhelm me it's going to overwhelm someone else and I got it you know back it up and so I ended up finding the sort of like umbrella emotions in the same way that like with the emotions wheel where you've got you know happy and angry and sad. We'll have you have the wheel of the wheels and you've got but you've got different types of happy right you've got the surprise versus being content you know those are different kind of feelings but in the same way though overwhelm is like a big big feeling but there are more specific types of overwhelm are you intimidated are you over committed are you burnt out and so the way that the book is sort of set up and how I found it most helpful to navigate those emotions is I've got those kind of five main sections which are like stuck on motivate. Or stuck overwhelmed unmotivated disorganized and discouraged and then once you can identify all right what am I trying to get done what is which of these five feels like it's making you know getting in the way and then flipping to that section and going okay now there are different how are you feeling sub emotions into reading these I statements and if I can read the statements that say I have so much to do this is going to take forever you know blah blah and go oh that sounds like me that's the same thing. I'm like me that's the section need to be in and then they can you know go to that section to find those tailored tools and I really this emotional framework was not like part of the plan it actually became this thing that grew out of me needing to figure out how are people going to not get a book of 100 you know over 100 ways to get stuff done and go I'm overwhelmed looking at this you know right so it's I stumbled into on accident it's one of the things I think I'm most proud of because it really maps exactly what I'm going to do is I'm going to do that. maps, executive dysfunction, the way that I feel like people really hadn't. before because it's a lived experience based unless like medically, you know, based. Your hormones are raging, your brain is betraying, the world may be ending. Now what? Unfortunately, most of us don't have the luxury of opting out of our daily responsibilities. Yeah, when you're an ADHD or experiencing mid-life or just being alive in these crazy times, that could be tricky. This is where Rebel Reset comes in. Rueded in first-hand experience, neuroscience and user data from women like you. This is a 30-day program to get you unstuck. Because as much as you wish you were a robot, because you'd have better career prospects, you aren't a robot and being a woman is complicated right now. To get started, visit Rebel Mama Pod on Instagram and DM me the word reset. Yeah, I'm really glad you're talking about this and it's like after after we're done, I'm going to go pull this book back out and look at it refresh eyes because the emotional component I'm learning is so huge and it's a while you were talking, it kind of reminds me of Atlas of the Heart, like you're giving us from that to our emotional resistance and that's such a gift. That's cool. It's difficult to find your way if you don't know where you are. Yeah, I didn't know there were so many brands of overwhelm. I thought it was just overwhelm. Yeah, so there's different, there's like intimidated, I am in the intimidated section all the time and then in the stuck section, I live in perfectionistic. People think of perfectionism, particularly I talk to a lot of women with ADHD and it has become the coping skill that if I make this perfect, if no one can criticize me, then I could be proud of myself and I could be done. I could be done when this is beyond, you know, reproach because so many of us are so afraid of criticism. Yeah, that tracks dude, that's incredible to hear it externalized like that. So what are you up to these days? You have the book, where can we find your book, where can we keep up with what you're creating right now? So the book is at antiplanar.com and I've got right now we got in shipment of clean editions that were supposed to be original editions. So we've got, we're figuring out how to navigate that and I'm currently kind of working actually on right now before we hop down here stuff for new activities for potentially doing a, I have not spoken a word of this out loud before. So now it is real. I've been working on antiplanar two activities and so potentially having the beta tests for those come out because that's actually what I did with the book that a lot of people they go, oh, this is so easy to use or I enjoy it a lot. Stuff that I was curious about if people, if it would resonate or if it would work for people or not. I did do like beta testing and so I, yeah, I had different ones that you could go download and I do have like digital download PDFs for people who are wondering, but I've got, I had it to where you could try them out and then give me feedback on if it worked for you, if it didn't. And honestly, I had it say even if you don't use any of these, I would still love to hear from you on why you didn't use them. Was it because they were intimidating? Was it because nothing that you needed to get done matched these, you know, these activities? Was it because they, you know, just didn't sound good and to let people know already, again, that like, how do we design around people who are used to feeling ashamed? I know. If I downloaded something from a small creator who said they wanted to beta test and I didn't do anything and I didn't give her feedback, I might feel bad. And giving people that permission that's like, it's still really useful information to hear from you, even if you didn't use any of the stuff. And so being able to kind of, I think, take that approach towards product design of understanding that shame-based component of like, how are people expecting themselves to fail? Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful. Well, I've really enjoyed this conversation, Danny. Is there anything else you want to add or throw in before we sign on? I get asked a lot like what, one of my favorite, you know, ways to get stuff done when you don't feel like it like is from the book. And I've got a ton of stuff in the book that I like that I developed myself, little games and and we're like, there's a lot of weird ways, like just weird enough to work kind of things. Yeah. But from like a prep, I do like to leave people like a practical thing that I do that they could do like right now that costs like pennies as far as if you struggle to remember what you're working on, you know, what you need to do or what the status is and a lot of people without getting overwhelmed. A lot of people have heard of like combine boards, right? Where you've got in progress or to do in progress, on hold and done. Right. And I, I used to do it on, you know, on the walls or on digitally. And what I always end up coming back to is along my computer monitor, I will put to do's on post notes and they go at the bottom, the to do's are at the bottom. And then once I go to do it like in progress, move, I move it over to the right side of the monitor. If I'm waiting to hear back from somebody about something, I put it on the left and then when I'm done, I can flip it up on the top of the top. Everything slipped upside down and is done. And it does a few different things in that it forces me to limit the number of things on my to do list because there's only so much room down there. I can't have like an endless, you know, digital to do list that just gets so overwhelming. And then it also has this beautiful side effect of not being ignorable because if I've got a comma board and it's off to the side, you know, I it could be there, but it just blends into the background. Having them in front of your face makes it really difficult to to forget about them. So that's I do love to kind of give people one one little strategy that they can implement right away. And if you've got post notes and a computer monitor, that's my faith. Awesome. I'll throw one in two. I love the one what what you throw the dice and you assign each number to a test. Yes. Yes. Or or or having like a range of set of ranges. And what I've found is so you know, if it's like one through five, I'm going to check my emails six through 10. I'm going to do dishes 11 through 19. I'm going to work on new anti-planar activities and 20 is like I am, you know, get to play video games and then you get to roll a D 20. And for some people, they're like, I don't play D and D. I'm excited to have a reason to get a cool D 20. Yeah. So the for a lot of people that they wanted to get that. But the thing there is that like, okay, well, working on the anti-planar two activities is most important. So I made that range the widest. So it's a higher likelihood that I will get that activity. But the 20 being a non productive activity, people love because it's like the universe gave you permission to procrastinate more. And if you choose to do something anyway, you feel like such a rock star because you technically didn't have to, you know, and so you get this extra boost of I was already planning on doing something. But now I'm doing that thing and knowing that I did it because I wanted to. And other other times, you know, you need you get a 20 and it's super exciting. And you just needed the break and you needed someone to give you permission to take a break. And so I think that's another one my favorites too. Well, yeah. I got to get back into that book because man, these are some, these are some golden nuggets you're talking. If people are interested in my ADHD comics, you can go to ADHDDD.com. I've got my comics there as well as embedded videos of my TikToks. There's a lot of people were like, Oh, I want to watch them. I don't have TikTok. I'm like, you don't have to have TikTok to watch them on my website. So if people are interested in my ADHD content, that's where you can check those out. Well, Danny, thanks again. And I will talk to you soon. Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. Hi, marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Lib Synads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Lib Synads. Go to Lib Synads.com. That's L-I-B-S-Y-N. Ads.com today.