Addressing the Future of Cybersecurity: The Hacking Games and Sophos CTO Chet Wisniewski

Hey sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network in service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN and limited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up then start streaming in the ESPN app. So all of ESPN all in one place, sign up or activate now. This is the best of unsportsmen like with Evan Cantium-Ashelle on ESPN radio. For the third time in the last four years, the UConn Huskies are going back to the final four. We fought, we clawed, put ourselves in position to take advantage of a mistake that they made. And UConn got to steal. Carabin. For Mullins. One, three. When I saw him release, I was like, that really might go in and you know, I went in and the Indianicus and the Indianapolis. You just got to let March Madness take over. March Magic. That call courtesy of Westwood 1 NCAA radio network. It is unsportsman like here on ESPN radio. I'm Michelle Smallman alongside Chris Canty. And correct, that is one of the most unbelievable shots and unbelievable finishes you will see in the NCAA tournament. UConn defeating Duke 73-72. On a 35-foot shot from Braille and Mullins, the Huskies advanced CC. Good morning. Good morning, Sportsperson Ball, before we even get to Duke UConn. Round of applause for you and your Illinois. Fighting a line, let's go! Final four. Final four. Going to 82. Good morning, UConn. Congratulations. A team that's been to the final four, three thousand last four years. That's what you got on deck. Dan Hurley, who has a modern day dynasty with the Huskies. That's what you got to look forward to. Braille and Mullins, Indian kid, sending his team to Indianapolis on a last minute three pointer. Didn't realize that his team was only down by two and that three was for the win. Thought he was going to tie it up, was ice cold looking for Alex Carabin or somebody else to take the shot just because he didn't think he was going to make it. But then he wanted to put one up to make sure they got a shot up in bang. Punch their ticket to the final four. That was awesome. Smalls, I'm watching that in real time. Yep, me too. While my mom is holding my son while he's sleeping. And I woke up my son and the whole damn household because it was just so unbelievable. It really was so unbelievable. Do had a 19 point lead, Yukon mounting the comeback. And like I said to open CC, that's one of those moments that's not only in the one shining moment video for this season, but that we are going to remember forever. When you're talking about big time tournament moments, big time tournament tournament shots, that one is right up there. Braille and Mullins, the Yukon freshman. As you said, the Indiana kid with the shot at the end to send the Huskies to Indianapolis for the final four. And yes, they're going to face my Illinois fighting. And we're going to get into Illinois and their big victory over Iowa and more about that game. It's cute. Coming up. It was cute. It was cute. It was cute. It's cute. I mean, when you compare it to what we saw yesterday afternoon, you have to call it cute. I mean, that was that was an all-time or game. And that's what we see from these two teams, right? Yes. Because this is the fourth game between Duke and Yukon that was decided by three points in the NCAA tournament. And all of those games had national championship implications at stake. Yep. And the winner of those games went on to play in the national championship game. Didn't necessarily win it, but they went on to play it if it wasn't the national championship game itself. So you know when those two teams tangled that it's going to be some smoke. And we suspected when the brackets came out that this was going to be the eventual matchup in the Elite 8. Dan Hurley's program with Alec Carabin and all of that experience coming in and playing against the star-studded Duke squad under John Shire. And credit to John Shire because he's done a phenomenal job too at Duke. This is his third Elite 8 and due to any 40 years old. So tip of the cap to him. But when you look at the Yukon program, I'm not sure that there's any coach in college basketball, maybe all of college sports that gets more out of his talent than Dan Hurley. Now, I'm not saying that he's got non-descript guys. He's got five stars. He's got NBA talent just like everybody else. But it's their poise and their composure in the critical moments. Their overall execution and how they wear people down at the end, how they walk people down at the end that makes you realize that there is something special in how he gets his teams to play this time of year. But at this point, we have to acknowledge that it's academic for Dan Hurley to go through the NCAA tournament and get his team to the championship rounds because he does it damn near every season. Well, I can't wait that it's my team that he's got on deck. I'm sorry, small. I got it. We're going to get into that, C.C. Okay, much more on Hurley and how he is perhaps the big game coach of the moment right now. We're going to talk about Duke blowing the double digit lead. Let's isolate the shot, C.C. because that braille and mullen shot truly is one of the greatest shots and the greatest finishes that you're going to see in this tournament. But obviously the shot was received differently from the Yukon side and from the Duke side. So we are going to isolate the shot and listen to the hometown call from Yukon and from Duke. So first up, let's hear it from the Yukon side. This is my Chris Pino with Lairfield. Now I head to Caden Boozor. I'm going to steal. Mullens gets it. It's caravan to Mullens long range three. Oh, we're winning. Mullens delivers. Bedlam. Bedlam here. They're going to go to the monitor to review it. Absolute. Bedlam is Mullens through a 45 footer. So you hear the joy in the voice there. What about on the Duke side? David Schumate from Lairfield. This is the Duke call. Followed it back for Sean needs to get rid of it does for Caden. Seven seconds. Try to throw it ahead. Deflected stolen by Connecticut. Two seconds. It's Mullens up top for the win. Oh, yeah. With three tenths of a second ago. Valek, I spit right off the bench. That should be a technical. But with three tenths of a second ago, Connecticut has the lead 73 to 72. This Connecticut got the three from Mullens after the turnover from Caden Booser. More defeat, obviously, in that second call. And you can understand why because Duke is the first one CCC and the NCAA tournament to blow a 15 point half time lead. If you look at their peak in game win probability for their last four losses, it's jarring. 2025 final four versus Houston. They had a 97.5% win percentage in that game. They were up 59.45 with 8.17 left. Then we go to December 2025 versus Texas Tech. They had a 97.8% chance to win that one. They ended up losing. They were up 60.46 with 15.09 left. We go to February of 2026 versus UNC 95.1% chance to win up 49.38 with 15.59 left. And then obviously the loss yesterday versus Yukon, they had a 98.7% chance to win that game per our stats and empty SPN. They were up 50.33 with 17.21 left. So I ask you the age old question. Did Yukon mount the comeback or did Duke fall apart? The answer is yes. And Duke has proven that nobody can do less with more. Since they won a chip last in 2015, the Blue Devils have signed 36 five star players. 36. That's incredible. We give Coach Carroll a lot of guff for not being able to come through in a big spot when you got NBA talent all over the place and you consider the year over year acquisitions of your program. And Duke is in that same boat rowing with him. They just don't come up with the big plays, the big shots when they need them the most. And yesterday's game just hold on to the ball. If you're a Kaden Boozler in that spot, why try to make the pass? Hold on to the ball. Time is on your side. Make them value it. You're forced to issue and all of a sudden you leave the door a jar for Dan Hurley and the Yukon Huskies and the boys know what to do with it. They've proven it year over year. So that's the part where I look at Duke and I say, man, you did it to yourself. It was deja-blu. The same thing happened last year in the final four. You're up six points with a minute 14 to go against Houston and you wilted under the pressure. You wilted under the press. You made the inexplicable turnovers that are uncharacteristic of your team the entire year. And it cost you a game. Yesterday in the second half, Duke had eight turnovers and Yukon made them pay every single time. Those are the mistakes that you can't make if you're in the championship rounds. I mean, listen, they got out to an amazing start in yesterday's game. The Boozler twins damn near had 30 points in the first 20 minutes of the game. They did a great job of moving the ball. They found the open man off the double teams. It was all rolling in Duke's favor. And then all of a sudden, you see it unravel and you hate to attribute this to such a storied program. But there's a little bit of a choke factor when it comes to Duke basketball. And it spans the end of Coach K's tenure there and it's let over into John Shire. So for as good as he's done at following up a legendary coach, it still hasn't eclipsed the bar to clear when it comes to the standard of Duke basketball and what has been established. previous four decades. And the mistakes in and falling apart in these big games are even more glaring when you're going up against Dan Hurley and the Yukon Huskies. Because you know going up against a Hurley coach team, your margin for error is so slim. As you said, any time that there was a mistake from Duke, Yukon was there to pounce on it and make them pay. So you know going into it that this is a probability. And it's just, yes, you can recruit all the talent, yes, you're Duke, yes, you're a number one seed, but we're watching time and time again, them mount these big leads and big games. And we see that erosion. And I give all the credit in the world to Yukon for the poise that they showed and mounting that double digit come back the poise from Braille and Mullins at the end of the game to take that shot and credible. And I had to say, Cici, I felt bad for Kate and Boozler at the end of the game when he was getting interviewed and he said, I let my team down. Because his turn over obviously set up the Mullins game winner. And he said, it was my fault, I let my team down and you don't want the young man to carry all that. Here's John Shire. Oh, go ahead, Cici. Here's John Shire, Duke's head coach on the turnover possession and who's to blame for Duke's loss yesterday. We just have to secure it, right? I mean, we got it. They had to fall. I was ready for a time out. And we just got to hold on. And it's easy to look at that play. I look at every play that happened, especially in that second half. This is not about one play. It's about every play to put it in that position. And that's what you don't want to do. Where one play something can happen. And so for me, look, it's going to be tough. But it's not going to be on one play. Yeah, I mean, that's the classy way to handle it if you're John Shire. You don't want to pin it all on one kid. And these guys come in with huge expectations, especially the boozer twins. And those dudes have lived up to it. You just hate to see the critical moments in the game go against them in that fashion. Because that's not representative of how they've played all year long. But unfortunately, it is representative of what this Duke program has become since their last run to a national title. I mean, since 2015, they have not played in the national championship game. The freshman class at Duke was in second grade the last time the Blue Devils were playing for it all. And that's not what we know them to be. Carolina just fired their coach, Uber Davis. They've played for a national championship more recently than Duke has, which is incredible to think. They've won a national championship more recently than Duke has. So how far the mighty have fallen, but then also on the other side of that coin, you see the greatness of Dan Hurley. Somebody that hasn't lost a game in the sweet 16 or later in the NCAA tournament. This dude is undefeated in the sweet 16 or later in the NCAA tournament. That's not hard to do, consider how much they get to this round of the NCAA tournament, this weekend of the NCAA tournament. So, typical cap to Dan Hurley and everybody that is affiliated with his program, it is a true mark of greatness to see them come through in that spot. You don't know how they're gonna do it, but you know that they're going to find a way. And that is an awesome trait to have, especially when you get to this time of year. - From 30 for 30 podcasts. (dramatic music) (screaming) - Hey, you, you think I'm not gonna die? - Brian Pada, senior defensive lineman from Miami, gunned down. - The key to this case, it's Brian. - Boy, it's a wrap man. - A hour before he died, he was on a phone arguing what's about, this might be a hit. - You want the truth, they just want a conviction. - Press your ass. - We had a killer mockstus. - Murder at the U, listen now. This is the unsportsman-like podcast on a SBN radio. - The fighting and line-eye have pushed their ticket to Indianapolis as they are headed to the final floor. - In the year of the freshman here, we are talking about Keaton Wogler again, 25 points, eight of 17 shooting. - Wogler curling into the paint up with a leader rolls and off the glass and he. - This is what his dream of, I know I dreamed that this one all was growing up, playing in the final four competing for a national championship. - This is a group that has all the capabilities of winning the national championship. - It is unsportsman-like here on ESPN Radio and sportsman-like is presented by progressive insurance. Protect your home and auto, save when you bundle. Get a quote at progressive.com. The sweet, sweet sounds of Illinois beating Iowa. Number nine, Iowa to punch their ticket to Indianapolis as they see my align eye going to the final four. First time in 21 years. - How you feeling? - I put the driver hat off, 'cause I know you're playing point guard on the show. How are you feeling? What are your emotions like? Knowing that your team is going to Indy with a chance to play for it all and that sure two wins away from being able to cut down the nets. - So there's a lot going on inside my head in my heart. Let's unpack it a little bit. First of all, joy. I am so happy not only for myself because we've been through the ringer as Illinois basketball fan. So to be here again after two decades is just a thrill because even though we've had so much talent come through champagne and we've had so many opportunities in the tournament. Big 10 champions, number one seeds. We have not gotten this far in a long time, C.C. And I am so thrilled for this team because I love this team. And most importantly, I am so thrilled for Brad Underwood, Josh Whitman and the powers that be at Illinois. Brad Underwood is an incredible coach. He talks a lot about how Illinois is dream job. He waited a long time to be a head coach at the D1 level and he has been grinding at Illinois for a long time. And unfortunately, unless you get to the final four national championship, you're cutting nets down. A lot of times you don't get the shine that you deserve in this game and in this business. So I am thrilled that the spotlight is on the excellence of Brad Underwood not only as a recruiter but as a tactician. - So are you fully over the scar tissue of losing the natty in 2005? - Because I mean, that was the last time that Illinois was in the final four. - Correct. - So are you fully over that and can you go into this final four with all of the optimism as a fan should for their team being in this position? - Great question. So that's the other side of the coin. You feel joy and pride that your school has gotten to this point and that the world is seeing how special they are. But there's that scar tissue. I'm a little calcified. I'm not gonna lie. Not only from 2005, which was the worst sports loss that I've ever endured as a fan. North Carolina defeating the most special team that I've probably ever covered. - So is that worse than the Rams leaving in the cloak of darkness from St. Louis and going to LA? It's different? - Because that is straight up lying in betrayal from someone who's from Missouri. - Okay. - And that's things that are outside of the game. - Okay. - Whereas this is just basketball. - Okay, so this is just a illusion of just purely losing a game. - Yes, which is almost worse in some ways because you know that in the world sometimes bad things happen and that fan bases get screwed, frankly, but like when you're a fan and you have all that hope that your team is gonna do it and then just from a basketball perspective it's taken from you, that's really hard to swallow. But not only do I have the Calis from 2005 CC and two, the last time Illinois was in the Elite 8, they played Yukon, a Dan Hurley Yukon coach team. I was there in Boston. At half time, right before half, Illinois started to make a little bit of a run in that game. I go to get a water at half time, obviously long lines. By the time I get back to my seat, Yukon was in the midst of what would be a 30 to nothing run. 30 to nothing to pull away and defeat Illinois in Boston. It was so bad that I was surrounded by Yukon fans who were from Boston and let's just say those people generally aren't kind and friendly. - Yeah, they're not. They were chirping me to death and the first half. I mean, they were wearing me out like you can't believe. At the end of that run, they were like, listen, don't let this run your trip. Go to the North end, have a beautiful meal. Boston's a good place, you can still salvage the night. Like they felt badly for me. They were pitting me, Boston sports fans. That's how bad it was. And on the heels of watching Yukon mount this unbelievable comeback with the exclamation point from the Mollenshot to defeat number one overall Duke. Yeah, I'm nervous, I'm worried. I'm scared and concerned and I have PTSD. - But you're the favorite. Going into this matchup, or outside of it, Yukon is the underdog against your fighting a lot of. I mean, you got Keaton Wagler, you got the bitches. Like you got a squad. - We've got the size. Their offense is one of the most efficient offenses in Kenpom history. And I think the beauty of this run for Illinois is it's not even necessarily their offense that has gotten here. It's the defense, which down the stretch and into the Big Ten tournament was a concern. And they have turned on the defensive jets in a way that I haven't seen from them. All season long in this tournament. And that's what makes them a really scary team. - I think that's what makes this matchup fascinating because of the industriousness of Brad Underwood squad and the way that they play going up against the grid of Yukon and Dan Hurley. It really is, like looking in a mirror when it comes to the personalities, the character of these two teams. Now of course, when it comes to the overall talent, there are some differences, but I think when you think about the DNA of what Coach Underwood wants the Illinois program to be, it mirrors what we're seeing Dan Hurley do over the last half decade with the Yukon Huskies. And here's the other thing, Smalls, that she should feel good about. This is the third time a team that's on a three line, three seed has made it to the final four since seeding has begun. The previous two teams, 2023 Yukon, won the Nadi, 1981, Indiana, won the Nadi. I'm just I'm I'm not trying to put too much on it. But I mean, that if you want to look at history, that could be in your favor, that's a little bit of history. There's something to this Illinois team. And based on what the committee and people in the college basketball world thought coming into this, this tournament, what they would be, they have proven everybody wrong. And so this is another opportunity for them to prove the world wrong for them to do what everybody other than Vegas thinks that they can't do, which is upset Dan Hurley's machine, which is Yukon basketball. So here's what makes me nervous is when we sit down, CC and Umean, have are trying to predict things or look into the future and say, okay, well, these are the factors that we're going to lean on to determine a winner when it comes to big games, championship rounds, championship games. A lot of times we defer to the best player on the floor or on the field or the coach. And I don't know if there is a better big game coach across sports right now than Dan Hurley. Oh, no. And that's what makes me nervous is that it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, what the opposition is, what the challenges, what the deficit is that mounts throughout the game. Dan Hurley coach teams find a way to get it done. And that's what scares me. Well, it's just scary. There's a good reason to have some fear, but we'll see what ends up happening in this game this weekend. I would just say that your team has all of the makings, all of the raw materials that they need to pull off the upset. But as we've seen with Yukon opponents, the pressure that that program, those players put on you eventually wears them down. And I'm curious to see whether or not Yukon can do it once again against your squad. Because that's what it's ultimately going to come down to. Who makes the critical error? Who makes the mistake at the end of the game? It's very reminiscent of the Bill Balochette coach Patriots when they were in the midst of their dynasty, right? It wasn't about them. You know, beating you with just straight talent. It was about them being able to execute and them forcing you into mistakes and then fully take advantage of them. It's what we saw last night with Yukon against Duke. And they're going to try to do it again in the final four. So it's going to be interesting to see which team makes the mistakes and that those mistakes ultimately determine the outcome. 9-1-1, where is the emergency? It's the middle of the night in a small town on the Jersey Shore. Someone reports an abandoned car on a bridge. A search gets underway for the missing driver. 19-year-old Sarah Stern. Is it a missing person? Is it a suicide? At this point, nobody knows. Old friendships, buried cash and a sinister plot that was once pitched as a movie plays out in real life. I'm Ju-Ju Chang from 2020 and ABC audio. Listen now to Bridge of Lies, wherever you get your podcasts. This is the unsportsman like podcast on ESPN radio. Alongside Chris Canty, I'm Michelle Smallman. It is unsportsman like presented by progressive insurance and the Yukon men and women's basketball teams get this week's performance of the week brought to you by Marriott Bomboy. Traveling for Game Day, Marriott Bomboy is your home base for pregame moments and post game stories. Marriott Bomboy, where your game day checks in. C.C. Let's welcome in our ESPN basketball analyst Seth Greenberg, because what a weekend of college basketball we have. And let's have Seth break it all down for us. Good morning Seth. Thanks so much for the time. First your reaction to what we saw from Duke and Yukon yesterday. Did Duke lose the game or did Yukon win the game? It takes two to tango. It's a little bit of both. I mean, you think about the first half. Duke dominated the paint, dominated the glass, dominated turnover game and dominated basically the flow of the game. In the second half, you can't just flip the switch. I mean, think about this. You come in the second half. 16 points off turnovers. Those live both turnovers absolutely were the difference in the game. How many points to Duke score our turnovers in the second half? You and I scored as many points off turnovers as they did in the second half. And absolute don't it. Second chance points. First half, 14 points for Duke. They dominated the glass. Second half, they lost the rebound battle. Eight to two terms of second chance points. So it was a slow burden in a lot of ways. And a lot of things had to happen. And everyone's going to point to the last play. And I'm going to point to the turnovers of which basically created easy scoring opportunities. I'm going to turn to Alex Carabin having the poise to make the pass. I'm going to turn to and I think you said this about Dan Hurley. The way they come back in a game is the way they practice every day. I go over there about once a week. All right. That's who they are every single day. The accountability, the intensity, the attention to detail, the physicality, the standard. They're held to that every single second of every practice of every day. Coach, I don't want to be too hyperbolic because we do have to acknowledge that Duke had a hell of a comeback win from being down double digits against St. John's on Friday. But it make a nasty habit of getting to the second weekend of the tournament or the final four and blowing huge leads. We saw it last year in the semifinal against Houston where they were up by six with the minute 15 left and lost that game. Their last four tournament losses, they had a 95% win probability. And they found a way to lose those games. So coach, what is it about Duke basketball where we've seen them fall into this awful pattern of losing tight games? Yeah. I would say that by the way, didn't they get to the championship game last year and had to beat a lot of good people and find a way to finish out games and get to the championship game? I think that's what happened last year. I'm a stake in. Well, yeah, look, the other guy, the point of gets really good teams. And yeah, you know, they're going to look back and say that last play the game. Catch face, look up the floor. That's what you thought. But hold on to the damn ball. You got a problem because you can get fouled. And yeah, I mean, John Charter is a terrific coach. His game time adjustments are terrific. I'm not making excuses because I'm a fellow coach, protecting a coach. But the exit is in those of James and Joseph. Sometimes guys unfortunately make bad decisions. And sometimes they're playing with a pretty young team. So down the stretch, maybe the moment was bigger than some of the plays they made. I'd like to go on the other side of it and say, hey, Houston made plays defensively. They got stops yesterday defensively. You know, you can't get in pass lanes and look, you can't, I mean, Duke helped them. They made some soft passes that created easy scoring opportunities. But Duke, but you can't also want four for five from the three point line down the stretch. Before prior to that, I think they missed like 12 straights. So yeah, I mean, look, it's easy to create a narrative any which way I can create my narrative saying. You know, stuff happens and someone else could say in the narrative that, you know, I don't like to use the word choked. I think it's kind of a cheap way out. Okay. They didn't make enough plays or make the right plan. That's just me. That's just me as like, I don't think a guy to be choked. I think he doesn't make good plays. And like, you know, Cam Booser, I mean, sorry, Caden Booser, you know, he's taught his Zillion Times. I guarantee you they drilled that lake in situation. Zillion Times catch, face, look up the floor. If not, be strong with the ball and fight the pressure. And, you know, he made a mistake. I mean, think about the games these guys have won this season. Think about the manner in which they dealt without Caleb Foster for a period of time and then him coming back and winning that game. So if we want to say that they choked in at the end of this game or used it, then we have to give him credit to say, well, why didn't they choke at the end of the same chance? John's game. Why did they make those plays? So that comes down to these kids or human man. And the other teams trying to win too. And they have the teams desperate too. And the other team all of a sudden makes shots. And that's coming from a coach's perspective. Let me ask you, did you ever choke in a game? Yeah, I'm a choke in a game. I don't remember that. I mean, I have one title. I don't know if you qualify it as choking in the game. But if you lost the game, have you lost the close game that, you know, all of a sudden, like you thought you guys had it? Oh, yeah, certainly. There's certainly been games that, yeah, there's absolutely been games that we've close games that we've lost. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, so it's a hard situation. I mean, it really is. I mean, I hear people, you know, it's a very difficult situation. I tend to go on the side of the game has tells a story. And the first half of the story was Duke dominated on second chance points off turnovers in the paint. And then in the second half of that story was that Yukon had to resolve the keep on grinding. Create turnovers get out transition. Do could make them feel them so that they were a bar comfortable offense without stretch. Again, that's just me. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying that's the prison I look at things. We're speaking with Seth Greenberg, our ESPN college basketball analyst here and on sportsman like presented by progressive insurance. And Seth, I am a proud graduate of the University of Illinois. Illinois punches their ticket to the final four. You're feeling good today. Well, I am, Seth. I'm feeling great, but I'm also really nervous because Illinois has to face this. you con team and the last time that Illinois was far in the tournament, Yukon ripped off a 30 to nothing run against Illinois in the lead-A to a couple years ago. I was there to witness it. So I'm equal parts thrilled and also scared to death. What chances do you give my fighting line against Yukon? Oh, you guys have a legit shot. You got a lot of bitches on your team. I mean, some believe this bitch is everywhere. But look, Illinois may improve defense, please significantly the second half of the season when Kyle and came back, they really just, they took their defensive intensity and focus. Even in the game the other night against Iowa, think about in a second half, they got up and under the ball, pressuring the basketball disrupted the rhythm of their offense. So I think they got a lot of ways to beat you. I mean, I thought a V-sitch on the block, they got those two backed-up post-ups, Keaton Wagler just, I mean, he's, he's just fun to watch. Toyakovich doesn't settle. He drives it and gets to the rim. They got a lot of different ways to beat you. Hundreds of cows can come off and knock down shots. So I think it'll be a big time game. When you play Yukon, it really comes down to you. This one to defend what they're doing off-ass. But you got good matchups all over the floor. I think this is going to be a possession game. I think that maybe the depth of the front court for Illinois is a little bit better. And then how was Yukon going to match up when they put the ball in the ball in the middle of the floor? He's such a good decision maker. This is a much better Illinois team, more complete, deeper, more different guys that can make plays. So I think it's going to be a heck of a game. Coach, there's a number one seed in the tournament that has scored 90 or more in all four of their games and beat their elite opponent by 33 points. Why is nobody talking about them? Coach, we had the storyline, you know, Duke and Yukon. And they made it look so similar. I said during the beginning of the season, Michigan treated like the first 15 games in their season like a bunch of guaranteed games. And then you look at who they played and they look at playing the best teams in the country. Look, they've got size, length, let us as in skill. I mean, it's absolutely incredible. Even losing LJK's in that they, you know, Kenny is stepped in and he's been more aggressive the last three games. Yaxl is a absolute matchup nightmare, but Mara is a nightmare because of his passing and his scoring and his room protection. Mara's Johnson's score comes out space. They're old and young, you know, they're not relying on the only line on one freshman. I mean, it's incredible. The pace they play out fast, low. They are, they're, they're fun to watch. Happen on selling selfish. They are. And then Elliott Kiddout, what he's done a year ago, people wouldn't even guard him from the three. He's knocking out three is a making plays. So they're really good, really well coached. We're speaking with Seth Greenberg or ESPN College basketball analyst here on unsports. I'm like, all right, Seth, Arizona, Michigan, Yukon and Illinois. It's not always the best team that wins, but in your opinion, out of these four, who is the most, the best and the most complete team left. It's between Arizona and Michigan. I mean, that that can include the national championship game. I need to tell you that I just ruined your morning. I apologize. I had nothing personal. Those two guys have turned the course of the season, been the most two most consistent teams in the country. They're both kind of mirror each other in a lot of ways. Arizona is the one team that can match up in the front court or Clark Chenkov can guard Leninburg at both or six eight and and Clark Chenkov's terrific defender. They've got Colpete out of Waka, which is important. I also have Kreeva. So it was another big body to play against that that the front court of Michigan. So I think it's going to be the winner of that game. Just eyeballing it and not digging deep deep deep into it yet in terms of really what they can give and what they can take away. I'm going to say Michigan has a slight edge to win it all. I mean, because when they are good, they are ridiculously good where Arizona at times can get a little bit stuck offensively coach. Every time we get to this time of year, we always talk about legacy defining moments, which one of these coaches adds most to their legacy by being able to cut down the nets. Wow. That's an interesting one. I mean, you got Brad Underward who's in his dream school who, you know, would put him in a unique category. Dusty May would be the same. Dan and he'll be getting his third national championship, which is exactly absolutely incredible. I would say, so Danny's in the Hall of Fame already. You wouldn't match the championship. You have success catching to the Hall of Fame. So I mean, it's one of the guys that hasn't has a one in the national championship. And you know, I would, it's funny to say all had different journeys. I'm thinking about time to look like being an assistant at Gonzaga all those years. And then the success of you, I think about Brad, you know, battling his way through junior college. Dusty May, you know, assistant to the coach White and then, you know, what he did at FAU now taking the second team to the final fours. I'm going to, I'll tell you what, I'm going to say it's going to be brought under would be costs of his journey. He missed no steps. He is coached at every level. And maybe I'm a sentimentalist, but seeing him share that moment with his son, you know, that that's that's that's Cinderella stuff right there. I mean, that's that that that that doesn't move you. When you sing and I saw Dan do it with his son, Andrew keep on when he played for him as, you know, kind of a walk on who finished out games, but seeing those moments, you know, as God, it did it for 33 years. The human side of it kind of moves me a little bit because I know what my wife and my kids went through during of course, my coaching career and to be able to kind of culminate that with a championship. That's the win that's bigger that that would be bigger than anyone just just to me because of seeing a family share it together. I know that's not legacy. That's just that's just family, man. It's the sacrifice just people get paid a lot of money now. One bright other with started coaching. He's probably making $7,000 sweeping floor and doing the laundry. Yep. Because we're rooting for Brad Underwood on this show. He's a friend of the show. Yeah. And sportsmen like his all in on the orange and blue. Michelle's mom and his beloved because we winch on that one. Like we which but you say Brad Underwood that that that music to our ears, sir. So we are rooting for Brad Underwood in the final four two. He's a good interview. I could tell you that short on words. Yeah. So as I said to the to Kanti early in the show, I said, I'm really thrilled for Illinois, but I'm thrilled that the spotlight is on what a good coach bread Underwood is because he's been this way for a long time. And a lot of times in this sport, you don't get the validation unless you're on the biggest stage on thrilled that coach is getting the recognition he deserves. Well, thank you so much so much for the analysis, Seth. We appreciate the time. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you guys. It is time for all the small things here on unsports. We like presented by progressive insurance. No, Evan Cohen today, but we've got a resident Super Bowl champion, Chris Kanti here. I'm Michelle Smallman and of course all the guys in Vegas East and guys I had an amazing weekend in sports. So let's run through it with all the small things. I got to go home for like 20 hours. Go home to St. Louis for those of you who don't know from St. Louis. I got to showcase St. Louis's love for the UFL team, the battle hawks. They put the DC defenders who wore the defending champs in the UFL. And those guys were talking cash money on the sidelines before and during the game when you're the champs, you can do that. But guess what? They lost the game. The battle hawks won the game 16 to 10. Is that our call sounder? It sounds more like a Raven or a crow, but whatever. So call is still the law? Call is in fact the law. Okay. Yes. Call is still the law. So shout out to the battle hawks for winning their home opener against the defending champs 16 to 10. That was very exciting to see. Plus a four point field goal. We know some of the rule changes in the UFL electric in person. And one of the cool things that I got to do there was catch up with a lot of the players and coaches from the battle hawks side, including Austin Pearl. He is the battle hawks receivers coach. He's probably going to be a coach at the NFL level someday. But for now, he gets to coach with his dad, Ricky Pearl is the head coach of the St. Louis battle hawks. And of course, Ricky Pearl played for the greatest show on terms. Awesome receiver killer receiver. Some of the biggest moments in St. Louis Rams history were from Ricky Pearl. So he was a champion in that city. Now he's back coaching football in St. Louis with his son on the staff. How sick is that? That is awesome. Smalls. I love the fact that he gets to do it. The father and son tandem at the UFL level. Yeah. And for one of the franchises that has been the most successful in the UFL, the battle hawks. So it's pretty cool to see to have that moment with your pops coaching pro football. Yeah. That's that's pretty awesome. And Ricky Pearl is one of the best to ever do it. Yeah. Like I know it's not a household name, but like he is a folk hero. He is a legend. He is a favorite amongst former players. So Ricky Pearl, I'm glad to see that he's getting his flowers now doing it a little bit different than what we know and for coaching rather than playing. It was a great day in St. Louis sports. Cardinals were in town, blues in town, battle hawks, Illinois wins. And speaking of family down the block when the blues were playing Joe Buck, native St. Louis, and obviously the Buck family has been the voice of St. Louis sports in so many ways for generations. You could just say the voice of sports, the voice of sports, but with St. Louis ties, we take great pride in that. One of the cool things to that happened over the weekend. Joe Buck has two sons and they played at the Blues game in the inner intermission and Joe Buck got to interview them at the ice level. It was awesome. Nice. And if you haven't seen it, check that out on social media. So a lot of cool father, son, connectivity in St. Louis over the weekend. All right. Next one. So family affair in St. Louis is a week. You know what? It's always a family affair in St. Louis. So as you know, Cici, because you just said it, call is the law. Yeah. Cause. In fact, the law. This is crazy. This bird cry. But walking around pregame at fan fast at the various tailgates and of course, in the stadium, Cacao might be one of the best battle cries in all sports. Cacao. It is so fun to yell it. It is so fun to hear it. Just yelling. Cacao is amazing. You have it over the PA. You have people dressed as birds in the stand. A lot of people with bird heads on people dressed as judges in the stand because CAH is law. I'm just telling you, people are sleeping on how fun Cacao is. What would be what would the nominees be for the best? I guess fan chance cries in all the sports. I mean, roll damn tide. Roll damn tide. Okay. Right. It's a little different. Yeah. It's not called. It's not Cacao. It's not yelling. Cacao. The same way that the battle hawks fans, I don't know guys. Do you have any nominees for that battle cries in sports? Go birds. Cacao is way better than Go birds. Cacao is better than Go birds. For actually, just go with the Eagles chant itself, but the full spell. That's pretty good. That's good. That's it. I thought it's like I was going to accept for the mayor. The mayor can't spell that. LGSES Eagles. Okay. You're spelling out the so to the JTS. Yeah. That's better than Cacao. No, it's not spelling out the name of the team is not better than yelling like a bird. Go birds is like synonymous with hello and Philly though. I mean, outside of the stadium, all pale in comparison to friend of the show Ed Ojoran saying go to Agas. Go to Agas. Go to Agas. But that's coach specific. That's coach. Go to Agas. We got to get coach Ogan on some just brings joy to us to talk to coach. All right. Next one. I had the privilege of catching up with St. Louis legend. Nelly before the game. Nelly and the St. Louis takes back together. They performed at half time. I was standing there. They were all there. We're thinking we want to lead. They're all there. Right. So I am not just saying this because I'm from St. Louis. I was standing there front row as Nelly performed at half time of the battle Hawks game. Every song they played banger after banger after banger, country grammar, AI, grills, hot and here. I mean Midwest. It could go on and on and on. I know that Nelly did the versus with ludicrous. I walked away from that being like I will put Nelly's catalog hit for hit up against any rapper of his generation. I don't know about any rapper that's generation, but I'll say this against ludicrous when it comes to the songs that we were listed to the club in the early 2000s. I would say a lot more from what Nelly than they were ludicrous. What's ludicrous is big a set. Well, here's the thing. Are you going to include the collabs that ludicrous on because he's on a lot of big time collabs. No, I don't know my face. No, you got to be lead artist on the joint. You got to be the lead artist new though. Okay, so let's go fantasy. What's your fantasy country? That's probably that's probably ludicrous biggest hit though, right? And and Nelly's is country grammar. I'm assuming both their first song. So let's say that one's a push. Is it a push though? Country grammar is better. Country grammar says St. Louis on five. So like like like like like I was just like if the that was like the Lewis all greatest greatest show all turf. Like that was home run chase. That was that was peak St. Louis. We had the blues, the Cardinals and the Rams all rolling rolling Nelly and the lunatics 99 we peak there. But what would you say ludicrous is second biggest hit is because I promise you it's not better than E.I. It's not better than hot and here. It's not better than that's not better than any of the songs. Air Force one. That's a great question. I don't know what ludicrous is second biggest hit is. Now Luda's got a deep catalog. You got of course watch a bunch of bangers. But I just I'm just sitting there thinking about like the top five Nelly songs like like hot and here and grills and tip drill like like this is a lot of a lot of bangers. Like with Luda like you know number one spot. What's your fantasy? Okay. We said fantasies off the board. Get back is good. It's not better than any of the songs we just mentioned from Nelly. We'll we'll circle back. I don't know if that's true. This is a great song. E.I. is better. Grills is better. Hot and here is better. Yeah. I'm just I get back to the great songs. It's very catchy. Nobody is listening to get back in the club. No. Nobody guess what they're listening to too. No. Nobody. Nobody. Well, yeah. No move. People would play that in the club. But it usually a fight would happen after. I don't know if everybody was looking forward to that. Okay. We got a couple more here. Shout out to Nelly and the lunatics. They killed it. 31,000 over 31,000 fans in the house for the battle hogs. Great football city. St. Louis. Also guys, they learned about a new drinking game as I was walking around fan fest in the various tailgates. It's called hammer slugging or stump. What have you guys heard of this? Has anyone? Okay. Pack. You want to explain it then because I can Google the rules. I had never heard of this. But basically it's a big stump that has nails sticking out of it. And there's one big nail in the center for social and different nails around that correspond to a person. You take a hammer, you flip it around, you catch it and you have to hit a nail. So if I hit your nail, you have to drink. If I hit the middle nail, it's a social for everybody. And it's basically if we decide to all get up on you and hit your nail until it goes down in the stump, then you're out. Right, Pat? Did I describe that correctly? Pretty much sums it up. But throwing up the hammer and catching it and then hitting the nail way harder than you say. Whatever happened to flip cup like you give it to that. Why was that? Why are we? Why do we have to? Why do we have to have been new games? We got the ones that we used before were perfectly fine. You say that, can't you until you flip that hammer and hit that nail for the first time? Then you'd be all in. I promise. I just feel like hammers and nails and drinking can lead to terrible outcome. Well, yeah, that's the point. They had me. No, that's not the point. The point is not to hurt yourself with a hammer or nail. Now, or you heard other people with the hammer of the nail? Oh, by hammer in their nail. No, I'm, but what I'm saying is you can hurt yourself with the hammer and the nail. Look, what's drinking with that a little violence? No, no. Do you think it's wise for someone like me who's so notorious, like clumsy? No, I think it's a terrible idea. Just like people that want to get together and have beers and throw axes. I think it's a terrible idea. Yeah, that's an extra. And without called does not sound like it's a smart idea. Yeah, I'm out on the action. But the hammer is the cousin hammer with nails is, it's related to an extra with beers. It is absolutely in the same family. It's insane. It's an extra. I've seen those things like bounce back. I'd take an accident beforehand. But that's like a sanctioned activity. This hammer game is just like something people do like at a tailgate in the woods. Like at least axe throwing is like an actual event and like a company, right? Yeah, there's still a bad idea. I don't think the hammer thing. I don't think there's a place for that. I'm sure there is in like Louisiana or something, but I've never been to one. By the way, a hammer. I just think of a Southern state. I know for buyouts hammer drinking games. Okay. You know what? I've been tracks. I've been all of you. I've been to all of you a couple times. It was one of the best sporting environments that I will ever go to in my entire life. But it was a highly part of the joy of it and the the gleam of it was that these people were waiting all week to get after it and drink. That the only people that was sober were the police officers that were providing security for the event. Anyway, that's all the small things. You sure? You're on unsportsman like. He survived a terrible, terrible moment in our history. But most unsportsman like moment of the day. That was terrible. It was not a great look. It is time for our unsportsman like moments of the day. Usually our driver Evan Cohen captains this segment. But with Ev Al Vegas East is going to take the reins here. So we'll throw it to Nuno in the gang. Nuno, what do you got for us? All right, let's just start because this is I think the best call, the best moment of the sports weekend. This is from Dave Showmeat, Lerfield. The due call of their loss to Yukon yesterday. Bobbled it back for Sean. He's to get rid of it. Dose for Kaden. Seven seconds. Try to throw it ahead, deflected, stolen by Connecticut. Two seconds. It's Mullins up top for the win. Oh, he had it with three tenths of a second ago. Valek, I spent right off the bench. But with three tenths of a second ago, Connecticut has a lead 73 to 72. As Connecticut got the three from Mullins after the turnover from Kaden Booser. So here's the, the tube with the funny part, right? One, it's the, the spare in his voice when Mullins hits that. For the win, oh, in it. Two where he's like, oh, Malachi, it should be a technical because Malachi spins on the court. Malachi Smith was legally in the game. He had to check in ten seconds. And that's where the other sportsman like moment is. He had checked in ten seconds beforehand, like during the free throws. So like he literally, so he's like, oh, wait, no, there should be a ten there. Like, oh, no, like just, - Just grasp it at straws, man. - Yeah, like the, just the emotion of that call, you know, like, I think the thing is like, our announcers, we want them to hit the moment or meet the moment and he did that. Dave, great job. - Check the scoreboard home. - This is what the fourth time that we've played that call on this show. - Correct. - Is it any coincidence that Nuno is a huge UNC fan? - No, no, no. - Quarring out that audio. - Zero coincidence. - It's a beautiful time. - He is reveling in it. Like, his team wasn't playing yesterday, but he got a win. - That's right. - That's because Duke lost in miserable heartbreaking fashion to you, Kyle. - I get it. If you, sometimes the team you hate, Luke having a bad loss is better than the team you love winning. Does that make sense? - No. - Because if you, like, no offense, Nuno, but with the injuries that UNC had sustained, it's gonna tough. - So they couldn't, they couldn't, they couldn't, they couldn't reach out for that. - Okay, I got it. - So the next best thing if you can't win is to have your rival, - Commiserate in misery with you. - Big time. - Yeah, especially a team like that. - Yep. - Yeah, 'cause it's more miserable that Duke is not in the final four than UNC, 'cause UNC was hurt. - We are expected that. - There's a built-in excuse. There was no excuse for Duke. - No, at all. - You blew it. - An end dramatic fashion. - The only other downs are like, they could have been an upside, is if Duke had won that game, and then Michelle's line, I beat Duke in the final four, and she would have made Carolina fans happy. - Very tough for me. This would have been really tough for her, and speaking of the line, excuse me, your coach, Brad Underwood, was on game night on Saturday night after their win. - Shout out to him. - Matt Fontana and Andy Gresh, and he was asked a question about one Michelle Smallman. - Oh. - Coach, really appreciate your time. We'll get you out of here on this one. On Sportsman Like is our morning show here on ESPN, and the co-host of that show is Michelle Smallman. She is a Belleville Illinois native, and was wondering if you might have any extra tickets for the final four for her. - I think you guys can tell him, you know a guy who can maybe hook that up. - Okay, all right, well let Michelle know. She's very excited about it. We maybe got somebody for you. - And I think that there's a hook up there. - Okay, that's good. - I do. I think there's a great chance that that will happen. - A great chance. - A great chance. - That's coach that that-- - The way he said that, it sounds like you're gonna have some great seats when you go to Indy. - I hope so. I'm nervous about this, you guys. But first of all, shout out to our coach. Shout out to Brad Underwood, who comes on on Sportsman Like all the time. - Swindler to show. - Always comes on the show. Always supports us. - That's a problem. We got two friends of the show matching up against each other in the final four. - It's really not because one has been on a lot more than the other. - Okay. - Dan Hurley's been here, what, one time? Brad Underwood has been on over the course of the three years we've done that. - We only had a coach now. - One time? - Yes. - Has Brad Underwood been in studio? - I mean, we had multiple segments with Dan Hurley and we actually did an overtime segment with Dan Hurley too though. I don't give you rest about it, to be honest. But he was all for like an hour. - My question is, if you're rips about that, he is busy at practice, he's busy recruiting. - I mean, I'm just saying total time. - I'm just saying total time. - Total time on on Sportsman Like is about to say. - Oh, I disagree with that. - Total runtime on on Sportsman Like is about to say. - What happened to this orange and blue were cousins? - I'm rooting for you. I want y'all to win and to fall. Listen, I picked Michigan State to beat Yukon on Friday. I was wrong. So I mean, it's not like I have an issue picking against Yukon and Dan Hurley. I just know that picking against them at this stage and the tournament is usually a bad bet 'cause they win all the time. - All right, next one. - Next one. - As we all know, Evan Cohen is not here today and Kanti has reveled in his absence. However, it's also caused some problems for Kanti because Kanti has to do his true green reads a great partner of ours. So let's take a look back and listen back how the first one went when Kanti is trying to do an ad read for true green. - They do all the hard work to give you a lawn worthy of the PGA tour. Pro golfers like Jason Day, Ben Griffin, and Pat Kuzary. (buzzer) - So that's pro golfer Pat and Kazair. But fear not, fear not. True green is such a great partner. We got to do it again. So Kanti had a second chance to write the ship. Let's see how it went. - They do all the hard work to give you a lawn worthy of PGA tour. (buzzer) - No for two. - Kuzary. - Maybe tomorrow Kanti with the crew green. - It's called a man of Kuzary. - Kuzary. - Kuzary. - Kuzary. - What are you Christopher Maddog, Ruzo? I bought Kuzary out here. - And Pat Kuzary. (laughing) - That is all the shame worthy. That was great. The fact that I had two chances at it and you still couldn't land a plane, that's awful. - I have to bring you behind the sandals. - You did a phone of friend with Michelle. You're like, yeah. Smalls, I need your help. - That was the only way to go on that one. Now I know how to pronounce that name. Pat and Kazair. It's desirable with a cut instead of a deep. - Desire with a cut. - And Pat Kuzary. Pat and Kazair. - Pat and Kazer. - To bring people behind the sandals. - I just wanna know the fans. - This is normal reads. - I just wanna know the fan whose favorite golfer is Pat and Kazair. I just wanna know who's fan. - Wait, wanna hear from him. - Ars. - I wanna hear him. - Okay, but. - Kaiser. - We really don't know. (laughing) - Normally we have our own reads and this was not CCC's normal reads. So he's reading it for the first time, live. And CCC and I both tend to just run burgundy things sometimes. - But here's the problem, no smalls. There's the phonetic spelling of the name on the paper. - Oh it is, I was trying to have your back here CCC. - No, I couldn't even rhyme burgundy this thing. Like it's my first time doing this read. You'd have to seriously question whether or not I could read when you get the read. - And Pat Kuzary. - Kuzary. - Pat Pazary. - Kazair. - Oh, forget it. - And Pat Kuzary. - Thanks for listening to the unsportsman like podcast on ESPN Radio. You can listen to unsportsmen like live weekdays from 6 to 10 AM Eastern on ESPN Radio. The ESPN app and on CCC's M1080. You can also watch on ESPN2 and on ESPNU. Unsportsman like with Evan Cantian-Mashell.