Adam Neuhaus

I'll push back a little bit on that. I think Film Festival's are tracking projects for many years with filmmakers that they love and filmmakers that have previously. So there are a certain number of slots of projects that they're very eager. They know a filmmaker is working on a project and they know that it'll fall within the time period so they're staying very close to it. I have worked as a screener for a film festival. I worked for the Hampton Film Festival for almost 10 years in the bottom level screening committee. And I can tell you that every film that gets submitted to festivals gets seen by more than one person. I think what is really hard to do is you're right. There's probably not a ton of slots because they've been identifying projects and tracking projects for a lot period of time. And if you look at festival, they might only have 50 or 60 spots. And so it might only be 10 for that egalitarian approach. But the truth is every film gets seen and that there's a lot of great films out there. The King of the Pushback, it's a great tale to have. Today's podcast I talk with filmmaker Adam Newhouse who helped put together possibly the best brand of documentary, ESPN's 30 for 30, and then bet on himself, finding new house ideas and then the nonfiction hot list. The latter project has continued to grow. March 6, 2026 is a deadline for the Yahoo and the nonfiction hot list partnership which helps give a home to short docs. Check that out. He has also involved numerous nonprofits that help people get started in filmmaking, a sorely needed boost when people need it the most. That's a through line of Adam's career, helping others and much to his credit, pushing back on podcast host. That's my favorite type of guest. I'm Benjamin Ducic and this is First Time Go. Today filmmaker Adam Newhouse, most recently of nonfiction hot list but of so many different things, Adam, how are you today? I'm good, thanks for having me. I am so happy that you're here. You just have such an interesting background and I can't wait to talk with you about the four or five different things you're going on that you have going on simultaneously. But I want to ask you first, that seemed like the through line for me when I looked at all the things that you've done, whether it's being involved in nonprofits or nonfiction hot list, it was extending a ladder to people to help other people up. And in the world where documentary filmmakers are struggling, why is that type of thing important to you? I think in comedy they say it's like sending the elevator down unfortunately, it's on the ladder. So it's like a bit of a life wrap. But I think just in general, as I'm going through my life, it's not a strategy necessarily. It's just something that has always been meaningful to me to be a part of the communities that I'm a part of, to share resources, not to carry a scarcity mindset, but really a kind of all-ships-rise type thing. For me, it's just always been a natural thing to what are ways that I can give back. And for me, it's always been in my community with the knowledge that I have, with the experience that I've gathered along the way. And I've been giving back or being a part of those types of communities for a long time. And so I had less to give back in my late 20s, but I was dealing with-- - Right. - Of course. - Right. - Right up against the industry. So I had a lot to give that. And if I just continue, and I find different ways to do it. And so I've worked with places like the ghetto film school. I ran my own networking group called headsets and high balls for many years. Unlock her potential is a wonderful organization helping women of color in mentorship capacity. And certainly the non-fish less carries much of the same ethos as a lot of those. - Exactly. - But it's more complicated than that because most people aren't like that. It's that that's not-- I understand what you're saying. And I think people that have your mindset feel the same way. Like it almost just comes naturally to them. But it's more than that because that's not common. So without asking you to psychoanalyze other people, is there like any sort of thing that you think is like a reason why people-- they just maybe haven't seen a model. They haven't seen somebody be able to work. Find success like you have with that mindset. So they see people just holding on to everything. And that's the only way that I can be successful like Greg over there or something like that. - Yeah. I think certainly it's a very competitive field. So people think we're already-- everyone is stretched to our limits, their own projects, our own families, our own-- - Exactly. - And I'll be honest, it's a lot of work. And it's a lot of work. I don't do necessarily as a transactional type of thing. I'm just a regular, and even in a carmic sense, it doesn't work linearly as well. I have given up lots and lots of time, people, and to projects, and not seeking anything returned in a kind of short-term way. And it's also, I think, a bit of a safeguard for my whole career, which is that it's made me incredibly well-networked. It's put me in good vibe with lots of people who have helped out with years. And the hope is that those things can come back around in ways that I couldn't even imagine. - Yeah, I love that. I always find when I'm having a shitty day, you know what, maybe I'll just hold the door open for somebody, or maybe I'll just do some little thing. And it's okay, I'm still having this horrible day, but I've at least made someone else's day a little better. - Other than, like, when number one push-clips should, if you're feeling bad for yourself, give to somebody else. Be of support for somebody else. I think that is just good life advice. - And then, practically, how do you make it work? So the other thing is, like, you must meet documentary filmmakers and you can talk to ones nominated for Oscars, still having some day job. Like, it's not some sort of, even with the top awards, it's not like you're given, like, some golden ticket to, like, automatic success. People are still doing day jobs, still doing stuff that they may not necessarily want to do. So, practically, how have you made this work? Is it just, like, great scheduling? Are there any tips that you have for somebody out there overwhelmed? - Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I, and that's what I think of, like, making it work. I am trying to find that kind of elusive career sustainability. I decided to leave a kind of corporate job that I worked the SPN for many years. - Okay. - Give this a shot in order to, in owner and the things that I was doing in order to carve out something that maybe had a higher upside, financially, creatively, and clearly staying within a certain structure where you might get some of that stability, but you also might be capped in some of the impacts you could have creatively, and certainly in the amount of money you could make as well. So, in a lot of ways, it's a bet, I self, but I would say, I know you need, you need to find something that works between projects. You need to find a skill set, you need to find a way to find whether it's a skill you have, whether it's an editing or shooting or marketing or deck designing or those types of skills, or it's something completely separate. But I think we need to start telling filmmakers and creators to do this much earlier in their career. - I love your recording, social media, and I do believe a massing audience is also a pathway to creating some sustainability in money, but you can't, it's not that you can't be a full-time artist. It's that you must also find ways to fund yourself in time. You'll end up choosing something that you don't want to do. And that's something that happens all the time to people, but no, there's no major picks for practical things. I think everybody's trying to find things out. I am very interested in circular economies and people in this space looking to their friends, you know, and they do have something that pays to find ways to bring people that they know in their life into those budget lines and then doing the same back forth as opposed to where I was just looking to a corporate giant to pay us in some certain way, like finding that we can share is very important. And I'm sure it's just a lot of no sleep at all. - Yeah, listen, I'm more of a development producer, and so my club is a lot of coming up with ideas, finding the right ideas, packaging the right ideas, putting stuff into motion. And so some of those things don't necessarily require the day-to-day of being in production. So there's a certain flow of the projects that I'm working on. And additionally, for a lot of the projects that are a bit more heavy on the day-to-day, I have found partners to share the responsibility and burden. But yeah, you gotta work hard. It doesn't, that's the whole thing. You have to be willing to put into the time in whatever way that happens. And for me, it's less about scheduling, although I think that's part of it. I do believe creative people might have a harder time creating systems for themselves. And I think consistency is the only thing that truly works. And so finding a system that allows you to do work even on the days you don't want to do work is the key to moving things forward. You have to be able to every day make progress, even if it seems like it's sideways to stay in motion and stuff. And so I think we're all dealing with that. We're all addicted to our phones. We're all addicted to the scroll. And how do we find more durable systems for ourselves so that we stay accountable to ourselves, to the work we're doing? And for that, I would say form accountability groups. Form groups with hands like people do it for working out, do it for working, do it for writing, do it for editing, do it whatever you're doing. But really the only thing that I've ever seen really work in that way is consistency. Yeah. So, Adam, take me back to the beginning. So, did you go to film school? And then I think you did like the agency route, and then you got connected with the SPN. So, how did you get started? - I didn't go to film school. I was a philosophy major. My dad was always a big scentifier, so I was always very interested in media and film. And yeah, I came to New York. I worked internships. I then worked in the mail room. I was William Morris. We're back at the hotel. - Wow. - Where was it? - I spent time spent a couple years as an assistant to an agent, realized I didn't want to be an agent, made a jump to the production company side. But I spent three and a half years as an assistant in this business as well. And then made a move into development. Because at the time, I was very interested in independent film. But those projects took so long to come together. But the time when reality TV was really popping off. And so, there was just a lot more opportunity to jump in on more quicker and turn things around. And I'm doing a lot of reality stuff. And then moving from reality to documentary, to digital, to branded, working at different production companies. And then worked for myself and tried to get a bunch of projects going for a stretch after production companies. And then the opportunity came to work at ESPN for ESPN films. And in their development department. And so I jumped at that and worked there for seven years. Feeling as well, we needed to have the experience of working on the network side in order to end this industry from all angles. And then that was three years ago. I left to start my own again. OK. New house ideas, which is my own company. I still do series and documentaries. But in a lot of ways, I'm moving away from one-offs. Or thinking more broadly about the ideas of how do you build community long-term? So one of my core projects is I produce a podcast called Hello Puzzlers, which is a puzzle podcast. The real podcast is just part of building a puzzle media company. And so we are doing things like creating physical products, creating videos, doing the podcast, making live events. So thinking in this kind of creator mindset, and building an audience that we can hold on to long term. You make a film and say even in the best case scenario, you sell it to an HBO or you sell it to a big distributor. And then-- And it's done. Then it's called-- Wow, one, you get paid once. But two, you have no idea who watched it. All your work-- Yeah. --those people emailing you saying they saw an ad for it, or maybe they watched it. We have no information about the viewers. And it just seems like this next genre, this next chapter for people, is about knowing your audience, having a relationship with them, and being able to-- Right. --to them over and over again, to monetize, to get more ideas, to utilize them in a variety of ways. So the puzzle thing is we're building a puzzle community. We're trying to build a large community. And then we don't need corporate dollars. We're then could be able to sustain ourselves as an independent company. So I'm doing that. And then certainly non-smart lists, which has been the beginning of building a really amazing non-fiction community. That's so smart. And I feel like it goes back to what you said earlier, bet on yourself consistently betting on yourself. It feels like a lot of people just want to find a lane, a comfortable lane. And of course, you've got no knock against it necessarily. You've got people have families to pay for all that. And jumping on your own has to be the scariest part of it. But it seems like you've consistently over your career just went off and just tried to expand your horizons, rather than just find that one nice lane, comfortable lane, and just try to stay as long as you can. Everyone has their responsibilities and where they are in the world and what they need. Everybody has got a different stuff. But yeah, I am certainly entrepreneurial-minded. It is very difficult for me. I'm still trying to figure it out and fucking time doing it. The first time was OK. And now I'm trying new stuff. And I believe in what I'm talking about is certainly not easy being an entrepreneur is not easy. I really believe that the best thing you can also do is find good partners wherever you can. And I have partners on some of my projects, but finding good partners to work with is just necessary. Because it's very hard for a single person but to build out a well-sustainable company. Exactly. So 30 for 30 is created, best brand and documentary. So what-- and I would say most of them are sports documentaries, although not all. So what makes a great sports documentary in your mind? And then what is maybe not a great topic for sports documentary? I think great sports documentary is something that it goes beyond who won and lost the game. I think it needs to say something like a regular doc. A regular doc that happens to be about sports, but that it says something about a larger issue. It says something about a personal journey. It reveals something very human through the prism of sports. And 30 for 30 and sports is such a great forum for storytelling because sports has got life. We have the beef and winning and the challenges. And so it's a wonderful place to find those types of things. And 30 for 30 has made those for a long period of time. It continues to make great films. And now other people are making great sports docs as well. I think the projects that I'm less interested in are just the pure follow doc type stuff. We have certainly moved to an access space world right now. And that can be useful. I find that stuff can be a bit more like candy that it is like a meal that I'll remember forever. But yeah, great story is a great story. It just happens to take place in sports. And sports is still a category that I'm very interested in. I do more than sports. But certainly sports is one of those lanes that I have seen a lot of stuff. I have seen a lot of pitches. I'm a big sports fan. So I'm able to identify what really what makes a really great story. Yeah. Let's you outline what my question was. Future question was on that is that you look at a lot of sports docs and of course it requires access. If you were going to make a documentary about me, I wasn't going to let you do that. If you know, it's not going to turn out good. And I imagine that was one of the challenges of especially working with the SPN 30 for 30. You got all these huge corporate cultures. You got all the sporting leagues who don't want to have a documentary come out with just like making me look bad. So when you get pitches for sports documentaries and necessarily it's based on access because you don't have a documentary if you don't have access to whatever topic. Can you talk a little bit more about how you think we should handle that? Or is it just something when you see this corporate documentary, you almost as a viewer should just be like, okay, look, I know how the sausage is made. Let's just be realistic about what this documentary actually is. Yeah, listen, I am not for a purity test in documentaries. So I completely think that everything has its lane. I think writ large, going directly to their audiences and telling the stories unfiltered. There might be a little bit too much of an athlete documentary produced by the athlete. There might be certainly we have maybe a little too much of that. But I think overall, that's a really good trend for athletes not to have to go through somebody else to tell their stories, but can tell stories to completely the people that they want. And they can tell multiple different stories about their lives in different angles on it. I think it just adds a lane. I don't think it's something that takes away from anything else. And I do believe there could be real magic when you find a story and you find someone who's willing to trust a storyteller, a filmmaker. That trust between participant and storyteller is really what brings a great story together. And so a lot of the job at ESPN and the job that I do now is about finding the right story and the right storyteller for that story. So every relationship that's a lot of the documentaries, I watch a lot of documentaries. I'm always looking at the style and the storytelling techniques of different people. So that when an idea comes to me, I can say, who would really do well on this? This direction will perfect fit for this. Or, hey, this athlete, I know who would get along with this athlete and bring it up. That's smart. That relationship then maybe the participant by giving up some trust, by being in trust with their storyteller can create something that they would not have been able to create if they tried to micromanage the whole thing. And again, that's what happens in sports, too. You have coaches. You have like friends or people who are trying to pull out the best in you. And I feel like the same. And people are worried about their image. And I think the dollars are forced in these days. So I don't bim own anybody who has to do that. And for the right athlete with the right story at the right time, there is a greater opportunity for a storyteller. I love that answer because you can go down the road of this purity test and just talk about all this pie in the sky stuff, but it's not actually how the world works. So I want to get closer to understanding how the actual world works rather than what world that we might all wish it was, but doesn't actually exist. You went from 30 for 32 new house ideas, which you mentioned a little bit before. You meant talked about the puzzles, but you can talk about what your company does. You've got the puzzles, but what it does generally. Yeah, I call it an ideas company because primarily I'm not necessarily looking to run production services for my company, which is a little bit different than most places. I feel I have a thesis of mine where you're either a full on production company where you own your equipment and you're renting it back to the production and you're really trying to earn your way through the percentages in the budget. Or you're doing something more about what I'm doing. is more of a development focus spot. A bit more focus on IP, a bit more focus on creating formats or being tied into the top line producer line in order to make money and then find the right partners to make stuff. I do produce the Hello Puzzlers podcast and so I'm not against doing production where it makes sense but I think because I'm a very small company it's important for me to focus a bit more on creating IP and so again that could be formats that could be just developing an idea and packaging it up. It could be getting the rights to a book or an article or a game and then finding the right person and bringing those together and it's just about how I negotiate myself into those deals for a long term play. The challenge of a development company versus a production company is that development only gets paid when the project really comes to fruition in production companies a lot of times. They step in when the money's already arrived and then you're moving up. So there's a real challenge to make sure I can find enough projects that pay right now when continuing to push on things that I own a piece of long term but it's my goal to create something and again this is why I am approaching documentaries with a bit more reserve these days. I am choosing very carefully for the projects I've involved with because for most documentaries you take somewhere between three and seven years to make it and you get paid. You get paid right. That's the best case scenario if you're selling it to a distributor. Well it's a challenge in that way and then you don't get any back end or there's no like future earnings on it. So instead I'm trying to find things that have legs to be recurring things that could be done in multiple countries and create IP in that scenario and if I can do that then I can keep the lane open for just docs that move me in a way and I can approach them with a desire to be involved artistically and less is number one financially. That's amazing and that led you to founding the nonfiction hot list in 2025 and now in 2026 you've partnered with Yahoo to promote and distribute 20 short documentaries and submissions are due on March 6th. I'll hammer that home hopefully you can get a few more submissions from this podcast. So what do you want people to know about the initiative? The nonfiction hot list was born out of my own experience. I had taken a lot of projects out post ESPN, a lot of big high profile sports projects stuff with big intellectual property, big executive producers talent when I really wasn't finding I wasn't finding real wins out there and I just felt as if my slate was really excellent the market had gotten really tight and so I figured if I'm a producer who has ideas that I think are really strong there must be a bunch out there so I wrote a post on LinkedIn just saying hey I've gone through this experience and what we really need and I've been a long time admirer of the black list is that we need a black list for nonfiction projects and so that post went many viral on LinkedIn. That's so cool. A lot of people in the comments just said great what are you going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? Instead of worrying about figuring out how to raise money to do it or taking a whole bunch of time to try to find partners I just took whoever raised their hand in the comment and we got on zooms and we talked about what it would take for one time only run a submission process and so we put up a submission process people didn't know what we were or what we were doing but we said trust us and we had lots of zooms with lots of people and in six weeks we got 640 submissions we ran a film file review process and we ended up selecting 23 films and we did all of this in a hundred and one day and again the day was when we make the way that we're going about doing this part of the ethos of the nonfiction hot list when did we all start believing that everything has to take forever in this business. That's not true you can actually put your own stamp on something and move a bit quicker in that way when did we stop when did we all start ghosting each other professionally people not getting back to you and so we the projects that weren't submitted we got back to them and told them and communicated with people transparently and so during this process we also said why don't we just champion these projects and just say these projects are just great we're not gatekeeping them we're not attached to them we're not taking a part of them we're really doing this in service to the community and just saying these are great projects now we chose 23 we also had all those projects come together there's a live link on the website you can view the list and we had each of the projects put what they need yes they all needed right I saw that I'm ding but also they needed specific things a composer post-production support pack producing and the hope was that there might be people in the community who might have room for one in-kind contribution and so now if you find a post house it says oh we just love this topic we have room for one project that we can give back a little bit now maybe instead of needing 150K to finish your project you need a hundred K and that gives you more leverage so this idea of instead of looking up to the corporate overlords to fund your check fund fund your project with one single check look to your community see what you can do and what you can trade and what you can partner with people so we really try to bring that ethos to it and along the way we developed a pretty sticky community of people coming to the Instagram of people signing up for the newsletter and us who kept showing up for these projects so continuously we chose projects that were works in progress so it can be anything from a rough cut to the development and so we chose those projects and now those curations are finally landing if that films get into tell your ride south by south west we had a short film by Texas Monthly the one podcast we selected was cooked up by slate so we're seeing these projects continue to find their way into the world and we're continuing to show up for those projects but along the way as we finish that project of 101 days getting the process and the list out there that's not all flow decided what else can we do for this community so what we also did was we sent an email to everyone who submitted who did not make the list and we said we'd love to offer you a free strategy and feedback session when was the last time you apply for something didn't get it and then we're offered something in return and so wow 2020 projects signed up and a whole crew of volunteers over the last several months have been producing and doing these projects do these meetings with projects and we're calling this thing fresh eyes and along the way we just asked those projects who had meetings with us can you create an energetic exchange with us we will do this meeting for you and we will give you advice or thoughts on distribution marketing production audience building and in return can you tell a few friends about the nonfiction hot list or can you make a post on social about this fresh eyes conversation that were having and so again we continue to bring back to the community and along the way we discovered so many incredible projects we helped so many projects get unstuck provide some feedback and it's really almost been as enjoyable as the selection of the projects themselves on the back of all of that momentum i had a conversation with you and yahoo said they'd love to partner with us to curate finished short memories what's exciting about this is that yahoo is going to pay or doing 20 films they're each going to get a five thousand dollar license fee for a two year exclusive and a two year non-exclusive we're looking for films that any short docs that are finished from the last three years which is also really cool we're not just looking for the newest hottest docs that are out right that played festivals previously we're probably looking for that they're doing 20 films so that's really exciting they're going to get 20 films paid we're going to get their stuff out there we're going to help promote them and we're also excited because yahoo has not been in this space and so we are bringing new partners and new pathways and new funding into the space and nonfiction and i think sometimes the documentary world gets a bit insular and now we need to be looking for yahoo partners other people outside of traditional film who can bring money and promotion and partnership and reach into the mix so we are looking for 20 films we really want people to submit their films as you said submissions open through mark six and then the films will roll out over the summer and so in the process of the yahoo deal we've turned our volunteer initiative into a company which is really exciting and we're also amazing you hot list version two sometime in the middle of the year that's incredible so there's so much there do you feel like or you surprised that people accepted feedback because one thing i've heard from festivals is that people don't necessarily react well to the feedback of why they weren't selected or things like that was that not your experience did you find people actually open to listening i think there's a couple things that were different i think we first of all it was projects that weren't done necessarily so it's projects that are in motion i think that's part of it and then it was an opt-in scenario so not everyone wanted to do it and so people who didn't want to do it but we found the complete opposite people were the amount of relief and the amount of joy and to be honest the amount of tears that we saw from people just saying this has been so impactful for me it's been so hard to get an honest real take from people who are in the mix with lots of projects beyond my first friends. And so we have found just a tremendous, people say that I can't believe you guys are doing this and I can't believe the value of this. And by the way, we're not the only ones who do this. I want to call out organizations like Field of Vision, which has a wonderful office hours program, but there are lots of people. And that's really what it's going to take on our industry is lots of organizations doing stuff coming together and partnering up. But no, the feedback was actually really emotional and very inspirational. That's amazing. So the other, there's so many cool things about this, but another one that you mentioned is that it's within three years. So it's not necessarily just like you said, the latest film. And that's something that strikes me as so strange is our process with, especially short films. I think the hot list had like up to 40 minutes. Is that correct? That you're the films 10 to 40 for the Yahoo. We're doing documentary shorts that are completed. So the Academy completed the Academy definition is 40 minutes. So it's 40 minutes for nonfiction hot list. It was every version of nonfiction. So it could be a podcast, could be a feature walk, could be a series, could be a short. We are open to everything. Yeah, that's fantastic. Where I was going with that is it. You look at a lot of the top festivals, certainly Sundance, but other ones slamdance has a ton of documentary shorts. And this may be true more on narrative, but I imagine also on documentaries. Is it so many of these films make these top festivals and then never are seen anywhere like maybe short of the week or Vimeo staff pick for the top ones. Do you feel like a lot of people are being a little bit too tweey with their like film like it's their baby. I get that. But if nobody ever sees it, you know, what real good is it doing for you? Yeah, I think one, the documentary shorts category is under resourced. So there are certainly streaming players in the space who are trying to win the Oscar or a couple every year Netflix buys couple every year HBO. New Yorker. Yeah. Yeah. So there are certainly the awards play. I'm more interested in everything else because like you said, okay, there are so many films on the short side that play 20, 30 festivals. And then there is no distribution. So I'm very interested in those because those films are excellent. And there's so many of them that exist. Right. So I do believe it's about bringing more attention to them. And as a kind of separate thing, not necessarily tied to the shorts, but I do think filmmakers are having a bit of a wake up call overall about their projects. I think one of the prevailing bits of advice that we have been giving to filmmakers as part of fresh eyes and for filmmakers overall is you can no longer work on your film in the cave and then just emerge with a finished role in a trailer and expect it to work. Film festivals are amazing, but film festivals are all trying to keep their own lights on and keep their own sponsor. So they are trying to make their own money. And the thing about a film festival, it's every film showing up to the same place at the same time and screaming at the top of their lungs at the same time. Yeah, it's very hard to break through in that atmosphere. And additionally, the people who go to film festivals are just general storytelling people. But what we've been really telling people is you need to take a page out of the creator handbook. You need to start marketing your film while you are making your film or at the very least like at the beginning of your edit. You need to be sharing clips. You need to be creating your own email list. You need to be creating your own communities because now there's so many options around direct distribution. You don't just need an HBO or Netflix to put out your film. If you have a strong enough list yourself, you can directly take it to them and you can directly monetize it. And by the way, yeah, yeah, money, you can also just have a lot of screenings that you control. And then you get feedback. But we are telling filmmakers, you can no longer just work on it in the lab and then just emerge. You must share much earlier on with your project and it's for its own good by creating that community. And so if you're making a doc about a very specialized niche, there are a bit of advice that we're saying is make sure that every potential audience member of that niche, if it is about stamps, you need to make sure that every stamp loving person, name, market, nose, film, you guys you go to a film festival and it's just general storytelling fans who are there for a couple days. We're watching a thing. Those viewers are not going to be that worthwhile to you. But if you had 1000 stamp loving fans for the documentary, those people are going to be your megaphone. Those people are going to talk about it. Those people are going to reach out about it. Those people, those individual viewers are worth more than a single individual. They are worth more than one viewer by having somebody in that niche. So we're just telling people, it's not just about, Hey, I started Instagram and I'm marketing my film. What is your film about and find all the people, fish your barrel before you start looking for generalized storytelling fans? That's so cool, Adam. So that it's just incredible what you're doing. So I noticed that there was not a sports documentary in the first 23. Was there a reason for that or just didn't catch one that really caught your eye? Incorrect. There are several sports. Okay. We have a film about competitive Hula called making the line. We have a skateboarding dock called Good Kids. We have competition series about rocketry. There are there's another dance one called aunties. There's another dance movement. So I think it's just all opening up your definition of what a sports film is. Right. The thing that I have reached for a long time in the sports documentary space. Don't just think about sports. Think about words like athleticism, competition, adventure, fandom. These are all things that I think orbit the world of sports. So there are lots of stuff that I would say count as sports films. I appreciate that answer because I think I was probably just like what you are used to hearing from people is I was looking for some profile of the 2004 Red Sox or the 2001 Yankees or something like that of okay, like what is traditionally a sports film and what you're saying is that's not necessarily the way to think like of course that's a sports film, but open the aperture to other different topics and grow your definition of sports. Exactly. Fantastic. So 2026 open to March 6. So one other thing, the dirty little secret of festivals. And I found this out like from doing the podcast like I went into this at I'm thinking people just apply on film freeway and then they decide whether or not you get into the film. And what actually happens is that people talk to their friends and they say hey can you see this film. And that actually when I told somebody that I was talking to you tomorrow, they said oh I've got this sizzle real. Can you talk to Adam about it? And so that happens all the time. And that's just the reality of film festivals and how things get seen. So when someone calls you and hadn't submitted maybe and just says Adam, I've got this great film for nonfiction hot list. Like how do you feel about that's like human to human relation of how film festivals actually work versus this idea of this egalitarian like applying type of thing? What are your thoughts on that overall structure? Yeah, I'll push back a little bit on that. I think film festivals are tracking projects for many years with filmmakers that they love and filmmakers that have previously. They know a filmmaker is working on a project and they know that it will fall within the time period. So they're staying very close to it. And to really jump forward your films truly got to be extraordinary. For ours, we're running a film festival type review as well. It doesn't matter if somebody tells me about a project like it's just going through the through the review process. The review process though is not based purely on how great a film is. We will we will rate the films and move things round to round and have conversations. We've assembled a reviewer team that is like an incredible diverse mix of backgrounds and experiences and ages and different things on the industry. And so there'll be a combination of reviewing it in a analytical grading it in every project will be seen by a certain number of people and then a conversation. That conversation is about maybe the timing of this is really good because of what's happening in the world. Or you know, this I know that this filmmaker is like one of the like really up and coming and would be amazing to highlight and champion their work. So there's a lot of things that will go into the conversation, but I push back because I hear that from filmmakers all the time. And I think it's a bit of victimhood overall. And I think like everything gets seen at these high end festivals they all get watched. It is just a very challenging thing to get into festivals. And what I'm also trying to tell people is a festival does not answer all your problems. Even getting into slumb-down because that's really getting into the future. Well, that's why I think the amount of effort people put in to getting into festivals only, not saying you should go quite a festivals. I love film festivals. I'm going to film festivals all the time. And I love, have a lot of great partners who work on them. But I would also say to vote some of that energy to your own community and audience building. And that's what people don't do. They just put all their effort into getting into film festivals. And what's the best one to premiere at? And then how to do? And like you get wrapped up into a game that is a little bit stacked against you because there's just not a lot of distribution opportunities coming. And I get it because we all have the lottery ticket dream of premiering at a festival. And then there's a bidding war on your project. And then that's what's hanging you a three-picture deal. Life is good. Right. It's a lottery ticket dream because it's happened. So I understand why people want to do it. But I would say to filmmakers as well, build your own audience. The other thing that filmmakers don't do is they don't bring their audience picture to picture. You make one picture. They finish it. And that's over. And then they start on another project. They don't bring that audience with them. So you need to bring your audience. You need to develop your own email list. So whether it's from the film or to your own personal account, you need to bring people. We're talking about career sustainability. You need to bring that audience with you along your whole career and build it up. You can't just start from zero for every single film you create and then expect great things to happen. Again, it's a long-winded answer to it. But there's no project that comes to me. And because they're a friend, they're the top of the line. It's going to be okay. Where really is the project amazing? And does it fit within the kind of lineup that we're trying to create for Yahoo? Or the nonfiction hot list? I appreciate that answer. Wouldn't a more precise way to say what I'm trying to say is that like somebody's asking you it's like, it's getting your attention and your attention. You can move the needle for a project more than say, maybe some of the screeners. Like when you did screen for other festivals, whoever was in chart programming the festival obviously had more power than the screeners did. So maybe a more precise way of saying is I want that person's attention for five. Yeah, look what that means. It scales down. You have the head programmer, the artistic director. And they're only really going to be dealing with the projects that are out with huge name. People because they're trying to convince those exactly come to their festival. Come there. If you're a filmmaker, make a relationship with the bottom tier programmers. They might not be able to like make the call at the end of the day, but they can add for you in the room. But you're right. Like the artistic director is going to be a challenging slap. But I can tell you this bad films are not making it in necessarily. Right. If they are, they have a lot of other things. Maybe they have huge stars attached. That's going to bring more sponsors to the festival, which will again, keeps the longevity of the festival. So you can't just think about these films purely as a meritocracy. They're also businesses, but they're also ecosystems. And they're important ones for the film community. So instead of getting mad that a project gets in, you might not understand the underlying three dimensional chess that happens on certain projects. But I will say if your film is amazing, it gets programmed. If it's only pretty good, yeah, you're going to have a really hard time. Yeah, you got to fight to get it in. That happens all the time. And there's, I think that can cover a lot of different topics. Right. It's like this idea of victimhood because I'm sure it's occurring. And it'll get to my one of the questions I really want to talk with you about is that you've done a lot of work on diversity on trying to bring in new voices into filmmaking through your work with nonprofits. And I think the other end of the coin of that is that people are probably saying, oh, this must mean that I'm getting taken away. Projects are being taken away for me. And when I think about that, I think exactly what you said, like the great project, it doesn't matter, you know, who your name or anything. Like the great project is going to make it no matter what. So just on the diversity piece, you do hear a lot of that victimhood. Why is that part of just like your volunteer time and then nonprofits, you work with like, why is that part of it important to you as well? It is no great surprise that systemically this industry is so hard at the very beginning. It's almost impossible to support yourselves in the beginning of careers. Yeah, in entertainment. And thus you end up with people who have support that is financial or family support. And so what that does is it eliminates a lot of people from the process. And so it's very important that we create pathways early on in people's careers so they can find a toehold in to the career so that then they can make their way in. So that is, that has always been a problem and is still an issue that goes on. But certainly there are lots of great organizations that have come up and answered the bell. I'm involved with an organization called Brown Girls, Doc Mafia, which is one of the best organizations in documentary film. I have been for many years associated and work with the ghetto film school, which is that an incredible job about training people early career overall. There are lots of people like Issa Rae who's got an amazing organization does that. So there are lots of ways to get in. There are lots of programs to get in. And as you move through, it has become more and more meritocracy. I think it is, it is hard at the beginning. And so that does self select. And we do need to make sure there's more diversity at all points. Then I think if you are excellent, excellence will arrive and what 100%. But it's a challenge for everybody. It's not, it's not easy for anybody to get something made. And I think now we have done as an industry some good soul searching. And it's not perfect. And it's not again, a purity test. But it is, I think a lot better now. There are more resources is more general people being aware of it and being aware of projects and making sure that the things that we're showcasing have a variety of perspectives. And again, that's not just race. That is a lot of other categories as well. I love that so much. Adam. So when submissions are due March six for this year of the nonfiction hot list. Are there any other projects? Sorry. I'll correct you because I think it's a lot of confusing. March six is for the Yahoo nonfiction hot list initiative. Okay. Good. Short docs completed short docs. And then we will open submissions to the hot list version two, which will be more works in progress sometime this summer of 2026. Okay, good. Okay, awesome. So the Yahoo completed docs, do March six and then follow on the website for the submission for the nonfiction hot list version two, later this summer. I'll also call out our Instagram hot list is like a community board. Lots of opportunities 100% posted there. It's a really wonderful follow. And then certainly the newsletter you can sign up for on the website as well. Are there any other projects that you're working on either individually or with the company that you'd be able to share? I shared briefly about the podcast that I produce called Hello Puzzlers. I think that is the most exciting project that I'm working on because again, I love the world of puzzles. To me, it was a bit of a bolt of lightning and author named AJ Jacobs, who I'm a huge fan of, wrote a book called The Puzzler where he looked into all the subgenres of puzzles and the beautiful thing about the word puzzles is that it means jigsaws and it means crosswords and it means escape rooms. It means mazes, it means Rubik's cubes. It really encompasses quite a lot. And when I looked at that space beyond maybe the New York Times and their world and crossword, I didn't see a big general brand in the space. And so we made a real push to be that brand. And I will say it has been two and a half years and we really haven't made any money yet. But we are on the slow climb of building community and learning as well. We've made 600 episodes of the podcast and two and a half years. We have our first physical game coming out later this year, 2026 based on a piece of IP we created. So very excited just about finding a channel like that and then being able to look at storytelling through product, look at storytelling, indigital, look at storytelling through audio and continue to look for storytelling in the documentary and scripted lanes as well. So in a lot more what I'm looking for in my life right now is certain categories of project or it's something that I'll always and I have a couple sports projects always I'll be looking for those puzzles. So anything in the puzzle space if anybody has any. Okay. Feel free to hit me up on that. And then now certainly like the nonfiction hot list as well, but a lot of the things that I end up doing is making choices on the projects that I'm really looking for and looking at projects that are not just, hey, I can make a doc in this that comes out in 18 months, but the project are longer. Hello puzzle layers is really a 25 year project. And so how do I look at that type of timeline and how do I build the audience? How do I monetize? How do I find things and be well known in that space? And so that has been a bit of a change for me, post the SPN and thinking about the new media landscape. So brilliant at them. So any film podcast, love supporting other people's projects. That's all you do is help other people. So with the caveat of the 2025 hot list, which is on your website, those are some fantastic projects. Is there a film out there or filmmaker? It can be narrative. It can be documentary. Just something that you love that you feel like you wish more people knew about. That's a great question. I'll call a cop out answer, but I would say, okay, yeah, look at the nonfiction hot list. What's cool is that all the projects are on there. They're 20 projects. You'll also see their development materials. I think that's really instructional for the community to kind of look to see what drew us to a project or how people are sharing their stories. But the other cool thing about the hot list is that it's not just early career people. It is like some very well pedigried producers, directors, editors. There's a real full spectrum of talent on there. And so you'll see somebody like Diane Kwan as a producer on two of the projects as a producer. And she's won an Oscar previously. You'll see somebody like Kyle Thrasch, who's a filmmaker, I think is really special, who had his last film called The Seat was on Netflix, but has made some wonderful shorts along the way. You're just seeing amazing filmmakers emerge from that. Daniel Lambroso, who has a film called Manhood, which premieres at South by Southwest, upcoming. There's a filmmaker, his first film, Nico Lopez, Alagria, who has a film called Earth to Michael, which I think is one of the most exciting projects on the hot list. We helped identify this project. It got into Telluride, which barely any docs get into. And so there's a lot of talent there and not just the director line, the producer line, the editorial line. So what I like to say is if you look at the hot list, you will find a project that speaks to you. It might not be all of them, but there will be something for it. And I would encourage anybody who goes on the list, but reach out. The contact information of those projects is on each of the pages. Those filmmakers are part of the ethos of the nonfiction hot list. I feel like that's a fair cop out because the vast majority of filmmakers I talk to don't have something like the nonfiction hot list. Like they don't have an actual non-profit that's been created to support other filmmakers. So fair cop out. The other thing I'd really loved about this conversation at I'm just that your ability to push back. I know sometimes you talk with people and they just want to go along and it's that's not the point of the podcast. The point is for me to hear different views and be like, hey, this is the way I think about it. Maybe you should broaden your horizon about the way that you're thinking about that. So I just really appreciate that kind of insight and your just knowledge on this and then just generally just your willingness to give back to other people. It's so needed. And if more people were like you Adam, there would be a lot less issues in the documentary film space. Well, Adam Newham. In a final pushback then, I will say that yeah, nonfiction hot list started as a volunteer initiative where we all worked for almost a year for free, but it's actually a for profit company. Okay, you have now moved it in that area in a smart and this is a bit of my pushback to the industry as well is that we only think about non-profits and non-profits are part of a really insular community of grants and like you're always raising money and fundraising. When instead, can we be a company that makes money that has ethics? Can we be a company that makes money and then pays people good wages to work for us and with us? And so it was a very concerted choice to not be a non-profit, but to give it a shot to be a for profit company. That is so amazing. One of the things that actually bothers me about was exactly what you said like in film theaters, right? So many film theaters now are non-profits and it's your competing against for profit companies and then why should we expect to have other people fund film theaters out on the generosity of their heart? Like it actually works as a business model if you create something a space that people want to go to. So it's so funny you mentioned that because I think about that all the time of like this creation of non-profits that require other people's generosity when it actually will work better for everyone involved if it is for profit. And I love that it's just like this final pushback and I'm new house. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. This has been incredible and I'm cheering for your success with the second year of non-fiction hot lists and all the great work that you're doing. Thanks man. Appreciate it. Really fun. Thanks for listening to the first-time go podcast. The goal is to make life a little easier for independent creators. So if you're with me for that please give the pot a five star rating and review wherever you download your podcast. It's free and helps expand the reach for the creators on the show. Membership is available through Directors Club, subscribe to your Apple podcast. You get access to the first two seasons, early episodes one available and other subscription benefits. Check out the podcast YouTube channel for a select number of episodes and the indie film highlight posted every Sunday. Thanks again for listening and helping creators get their first time go.