Ad Omen on the Rebellion and Compassion of the Left Hand Path

[Music] Hello and welcome to the space between where things are absolutely not what they seem and magic abounds. My name is Brian Gathe and this is "Limino Currents". On today's show I had the pleasure of speaking with Ad Olman. Ad is a successful graphic artist, an educator, and magician. Everyone should definitely check out his sub-stack series of essays and art, etc. He goes under the name "Rad Olman". So similar to "Ad Olman" but thrown are in the beginning. Anyhow, I started up a friendship with Ad over social media because I was really digging some of the post. He was putting out their very thoughtful, very sincere, very searching, very questioning and highly intelligent writing about the left-hand path. So yes, all the above's write up my alley and though would be hold, he also has a background as a musician in the underground hardcore scene. So it was a no brainer to get ad on the show. Without further ado, I don't think we need to go any further in the muck, in the muck, in the mystery. Let's just get right to this conversation because there's some real gold and light in this wild romp of a conversation. Please enjoy my talk with Ad Olman. * that's the danger* *like she is on the boat* *music* *music* *music* *music* *music* *music* *music* me and down the path of just a spiritual search. When I was maybe nine or ten years old, my brother and I, we had a very intense encounter with, I don't know if it was a ghost, a demon, an entity like when we were young, we were playing and we were in my grandparents' attic and a disembodied boy started talking to us and it literally scared the crap out of us. And that was the moment in my life, maybe nine or ten years old, that I realized there's more, there's more than just this material world that we live in. There's got to be more. Just stay on that first experience for a second. So this was something that you and your brother both experienced, both heard this, this disincarnate voice. Yeah, this disembodied voice not only spoke to us, but mimicked what we were saying in a very scary horror movie kind of way. Scared living hell out of us. Yeah, we ran downstairs, looked around, nobody was home, nobody was around. I think to this day he and I still say, do you remember when that happened? If I'd experienced that by myself, maybe I would have felt like, oh, maybe I made that up, maybe that's not real. Well, I had a witness there too that experienced the exact same thing. That was the beginning of realizing that there was more than just the material world. Right. And then through my teenage years, I had different kind of interesting ghost experiences, nothing too crazy, but every once in a while, some haunting type things would happen and I would kind of just chalk it up too. Well, there's more. Then he said, I in this material world, there's got to be some spiritual thing. Extra physical out there. And then after, I got my 20s and three times before, I played in a lot of punk rock bands and I didn't want to chore, and travel a lot. And when I decided to quit that and just do art full time, I moved to Northern California. And I was really fortunate. And this is the one thing I started to get interesting. I was really fortunate. I got a job working as a personal assistant for clairvoyant psychic. Oh, wow. Interesting. Yeah. It was wild. I was like five years. And this person became my mentor. On night, the boy psychic it all. My wife is, I'm not. But it really opened up all these possibilities. I learned so many things. At first, it was really hard to believe some of these things. This person was telling me. And then I had some different experiences with this person and some synchronicities happens. You know, talked a lot about angels and demons and entities, parasitic entities, healing entities, ghosts, energetic frequency is on and on and on. I just was so fascinated. It just really blew up on the doors for me. Was this person you were assisting where they mourned the new age camp of that kind of spirituality or? Yeah. I think so. I think that they wouldn't describe themselves that way. But they had their own specific process. It seemed a little more new age, but they wouldn't say they were new age, but it was a lot more light, light kind of stuff. Okay. Yeah. Which is valid and there's a place for that. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I took that path. I went hard down. You know, I even, I think I've got a photo somewhere of me and my ex-girlfriend with the ancient aliens guy. I went all down the rabbit hole of every kind of kooky new age and what have you theory you could go on and was all about the light until I wasn't, until I wanted to actually get results and wanted to be as tuned into reality and feed on the ground and real life change and soul level experience that wasn't just theorizing and wasn't just wishful thinking that I saw so many other people have and reaching for. So sorry. That's, that's a little part of my life. Maybe not the ancient aliens part, but I can relate to that search. When I moved to Los Angeles in my 30s, I started to pursue much more of an Eastern philosophy and Eastern esotericism kind of path. I studied and practiced TM for many years, chancidolmitation, you know, red, yoga, nanda. There's a lot of that kind of energy here in Los Angeles. So it was, it was really accessible. I could see that. Yeah. Yeah. Self-realization fellowship kind of stuff. The different practices yoga, things like that. I got really into that path and trying to kind of use that as a way to discover the self to find out who I am, to find some kind of, to have some kind of notice, I guess, if you want to call that. So when did you sign your soul away and go down the dark evil path you're on now? There's a thing though. To me, it doesn't feel like a dark evil path. I know. I know. It's funny, but it's kind of going back to the essay too. We'll circle back to that. You're sure. And it was something of the Eastern path that I did get some things out of it. Sure. It only took me so far as I started to feel like I didn't really resonate with that. And it didn't even feel in some ways culturally appropriate for me. And I started to look more towards Western esotericism. I think that's when I started reading some Damian Eccles books and was like kind of got fascinated with ceremonial magic. This must have been, oh gosh, probably more than 10 years ago, a little longer. So Damian Eccles was your kind of gateway into Western esotericism? Yeah, just open the door. You just cracked the door a little bit. There was a podcast he was on or there. There was something I read. He talked about how he studied Zen Buddhism or some Eastern Buddhism for a long time. And that some ways it didn't resonate and then what's he found this more Western? Funny about the Western iconography made a lot more sense to his Western mind. And I thought, oh wow, that's kind of interesting. I wonder what he's talking about. And so that kind of opened the door to sort of explore, you know, this is like early path. Oh, what's the goal not about? What's ceremonial magic about? What's the lesser banishing ritual about? One of those things about what do these things mean? But I'd already had this foundation of like a decade of meditation. Yeah, that's super helpful. So I came to a pretty even keel and not expecting any easy answers or any miracles to come from this stuff. And it was super fascinating, interesting to me. So I started reading more and more on ceremonial magic, grammar, magic, PG-M magic, chaos magic, just I just got super fascinated with that. I kind of left some of the Eastern stuff behind, kept the meditation part, but they left some of that, and I feel like it caused the cosmology or theology, wasn't really working for me. Boy, I'm giving you my life story, Brian. You know, there was something here though, in LA, something in Los Angeles that resonate. There's like, I don't know how to describe it, and I'm sure people would think I'm nuts, but this is one of the idea of working with Luciferian, light kind of energy or that spirit started to somehow pop into my brain. It wasn't from any books that I was reading. It wasn't a fascination with the dark side. I'm not really God. I like some God. You don't have that, I can't remember. My wife is God. That's not so much. Yeah, talk about that. You know, you had read the Satanic Bible way back when, and what made you come back around towards that, you know, the adversarial light bringing paths after so many byways. I mean, I think that that adversarial, iconic classic against a grain approach has always been a part of me. I mean, I grew up as a punk rock kid. And like, that sort of punk rock, you know, punk all attitude. It's just ingrained in me, and I see it as I get older. Like when I teach and stuff, it comes out a little bit, or with people I work with, and I'm like, whoa, I sort of have this contrarian, but I literally can't help it. And so it makes so much sense that that's not what a state with me. I can draw a straight line from punk rock hardcore anti-authority to a practice that is anti-authority. The spiritual practice is anti-authority. And in fact, that's what really appealed to me about this practice, as many as like the different strands and threads it goes in different directions, there's all these different areas of this practice. But the thing that resonates for me is that our lines on self, that I mean, I'm also going to say like DIY kind of experimental DIY spirituality. like this kind of path allows space for you. for them. I'm not going to gen you've left. Period. Just not like if honor been the need to honor a practice, whatever yes, but I'm not going to give my my power or my agency over to anyone, much less a deity. That's what made so much sense to me about this kind of path. I 100% agree and it's I think it's funny that it took me half a lifetime to come around to to realize how much it made sense that it lined up so perfectly with everything I had grown up with in punk rock and anti-authoritarianism outside of punk rock and just that questioning attitude. I guess because too, like you said, there's the whole goth element that tends to kind of glom around and be part of the visuals of Satanism which kind of turned me off aesthetically at first and then also the very scary right wing also element that gets so attracted to it which totally is the opposite of what we're talking about. 100% opposite. In fact, it has no in my point, there's no place in this at all. This is a this is a legion with a non hierarchical adversarial current, if you want to call it that. What's right wing and authoritarian about that? I don't get it. Except for maybe the costume that people associate with this practice and you're saying that that turns you off, but it turns people on too. So it can turn some people on like that dark side. Yeah, I mean, it's the same with I'm sure some people with punk rock, you know, they see the cartoon elements and the Mohawks and spikes and from back in the day and like, I'll fuck that. Just like same thing with dead heads with the grateful dead, etc. Or the cure, you know, they're missing out on this great stuff because they're and I'm including myself in that by judging too much on the surface. So yeah, yeah, I mean, it's this time in a place. I mean, there's a place from that look and I totally appreciate that. It's just not my thing. It's just not just not me. What's interesting for the listeners is ads got dyed black, spiked the hair upside down pentagram tattooed as forehead and a choker of. You know, when part of me writing about this stuff too and having myself as being on this path, if you want to call it that is to kind of bring a different flavor right to this pack. I think it does too. And I totally respect people that are, you know, I haven't blacked with a jacket. I'm into it. I were black. I also, you know, I wear lots of clothes. I'm, you know, I contain multitudes or whatever. I can do a lot of different things and I appreciate that. But there's so much more to it than that. And I don't want to get distracted by the varnish. I don't want to get distracted by the icing. I want to go right into the cake and what's really in there. So I'm trying to dispel some of the, some of the myths about this path by being super clear about it as clear as I possibly can. You know, and I come from an academic background so I'm trying to write these things like, okay, this is exactly what I mean. I'm not letting about and trying to be super esoteric. What I'm saying is this is why I think it is. This is what I believe. Take it away. And it's very, yeah, you write very clear and articulately, which already separates you from many left hand path writers and deliberately unpoetic, but still touching on mystic currents and subjects. So I appreciate that. Thank you. It's a hard thing to write about. Yeah. Writing about the inevitable and writing about spiritual, thinking about match practice. Writing about something that needs to be experienced and putting it trying to convey something that only can be experienced by the individual is a hard thing. Yeah. What comes to mind as well is interesting that the concept and the idea which started in the east, obviously, of the left hand path. It's interesting. I find myself more and more drawn to those concepts and practices in the sense of wanting to get as much punch and get as much direct both results, but also clear out the cobwebs and the illusions that I've been carrying with me in my perception, not in a, I've no alert to the darkness as you mentioned with yourself, either. But I feel like the potentially even calling and aligning yourself so much, saying just the wording left hand, that's only one of your hands. We've got two hands. And, you know, as there's a place to deal with demons and as there's a place to deal with the demons in the world and in yourself, there's also a place to deal with love and community and, and, and affirmation. And they can, it's not mutually exclusive, but, you know, I guess it just had me think in. Agreed. I mean, I think the left hand path as, as a definition, and I know that there's a reason that we, we use that term. It's also that it's rooted in Eastern mysticism. But I think you're onto something, Brian, that's if you're ignoring one hand over the other, if you're in trouble, you're already off, you're already off the path in my opinion. I am trying to, I'm trying to bring together in my mind and my practice, kind of all sides. And so I'll use the word compassion and a lot with st. Nism. And I don't really see that out anywhere. A flight is more compassionate approach to, to the self and the compassionate approach to others, especially the crazy political climate we live in. This courage to be compassionate for yourself and others. And this is where I kind of depart from the bay and, you know, smash the smash your enemy on the cheek or whatever. Yeah, the social Darwinist and Randian. Yeah, but different really. No, I mean, I don't want to get off topic, but, you know, that was, at the time of the place in that context, it was radical. To me, it doesn't resonate now so much. I think we go back to, you know, the essay and your kind of, you're quoting me about basically kind of a do no harm, you know, a do no harm or an ethics in general and st. Nism. And how you basically have to hold yourself to a much higher standard. And then where do those ethics come from? It's a great question. Where do you ethics come from? As with any, any spirituality, it has to resonate internally as an experiential path. You have to find and define those. I think. And as you said, very importantly, hold yourself to a higher standard and not in beating yourself up way and not in a self-flagulating way, but in a way that strength is going to show as compassion in many ways. And that includes your own compassion towards yourself. So, yeah, I mean, that makes sense. And I think a part of, you know, what I see in a lot of satanic writing are circles is there's that celebration of your own Godhood, which I appreciate, but there's also, you know, a total horse blinders to everyone else's Godhead. If you're a guy, show us everyone else, you know, why not? And why not recognize them as such? Oh, I love that insight. That's a great insight. I agree. I agree. And they might not know it. Yeah. Sure. So you be compassionate to them. They're not knowing. Absolutely. I think part of that shadow compassion too is embracing that shadow side of yourself and being very compassionate to that shadow side. I think I also say in that essay about, you know, there's a lot of psychological work that goes into this. Not only before I, you know, start on this path that I had, or even ceremonial magic, and we needed to magic is set back to this, that I already had almost a decade of meditation, but I'd had a decade of psychological therapy too. You know, I think I'm going on, I don't know, 12 to 15 years of therapy with a couple different therapists, but for different reasons, there's a commitment to this path too to, it might be, it might be. Right. To being the best version of yourself that you can be. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, you are no better than the, oh, what was that? You know, the manifesting early 2000s talk about new age, the secret. Yeah, the people that are, you know, just in it for the cars and pussy and name it. In their defense, in their defense. I do think that there is something to the level got gotter and like, saying and positive mind like affirmation, there is power in that. And I do think that that works. Sure, especially, especially the level gotter side of things, but man, the people that are making hundreds of thousands of dollars off of it. of teaching that and most of the personalities in that fucking film and stuff. I don't know that much. Oh yeah. You know what? I should be this at that, just to. It could be entertaining anyway. A lot of people are going to be entertained or to learn something from it. Yeah, that's interesting. That is sort of the new age gone, so capitalists like. And there's a class element to it too, underlying it. Yeah. A class and race thing for that matter. Yeah. Othering. It's important to call that stuff out when you see it. Right, right. And that's, you know, again, that's my punk rock energy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so, and you kind of touched on earlier, maybe, or gave a hint of, but, you know, within Satanism there tends to be at least, you know, multiple sides, but the two, two easiest sides that most people speak of in definition of themselves is either the atheist or the theist, Satanist. And where do you land in that? Oh, I'm a, I'm a theist, 100%. 100%. What does that mean or look like for you? Wow. I think that's, it's, once again, trying to describe something that's ineffable in a way. It doesn't look like for me. It looks like devotion, but without, it's devotion while maintaining agency. It's tribute and reverence while maintaining autonomy. It's feeling and seeing these entities, deities, Satan and Lucifer, I believe them to be different, but also kind of two sides of the same point and a way to give them reverence to respect them as actual entities and deities. And that's what I believe. I don't approach this in the atheistic way, in a man way, that's never appealed to me. So I'm a hard core theist in that way, but how do you, how do you be theist, but at the same time not give your power? You know, how do you worship yet? Stay independent of that current current? No, that's, yeah, and those are great questions because especially within this kind of current, if you are theist, it's something that you want to honor, power and energy, maybe on your feet instead of on your knees. And it's the shown of respect and of humility in the sense of, I think of, you know, when you talk to a physicist and you're not a physicist, you're not going to cut them off and be like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, what I think is, you know, if you're a person of any intelligence, you're going to be like, "Hey, tell me about this, break it down, I want to learn it." And it's approaching this times that by a multidimensional entity and, you know, it seems like that's how I would think that you could do it in a way that I think that you're not saying you're this hopeless ape that's never going to see enlightenment until it dies and then maybe God or in this case Satan will give you your wings or your horns. And that's following the same theology as Christianity as I will give you this, you give me that. And that does happen in, you know, magical practice. I mean, you are, you're like, "I will give you this and you'll give me that." And there is a quid pro quo there. It may not happen the way you want to happen. We go back to that paradox, Brian. I think Jack Grill said this. Maybe not, so forgive me. I can't remember who said this, but the quote is, "Paradox is the hallmark of divinity." And that always stuck with me. So you may think, "Oh, well, Lucifer Satan is like this and they're this kind of God and I must worship them in this way and I must do it this way." Well, maybe I feel like this path, this path in particular, I think really calls for an individual way forward. Like you really have to find it on your own. I do not have the answers here. So anyone who's listening to this and they're helping that I have some answers for them, maybe I can only tell you my expenses. Like I can't tell you what to do. Yeah. And that wouldn't be, that wouldn't align with this kind of work anyway. Of course, no, no, all you can do is give the keys to this temple and be okay. The light switch is on the left, the candles are over there, the matches in this drawer and don't burn the place down. So I think we're getting close to talking about the idea of praxis since that's come up. What does that look like to you and how is it developed and how is it changed and yeah, what is your daily or your general and you feel, because I feel like anyone's path is always going to be shifting and changing if you're doing it as you mentioned for yourself as a seeker and as someone that's doing it from a deep place. Otherwise you're just following a cookbook instructions, grammar instructions. What does that journey been like as a practitioner and where you at now? Well, good question. Let me start by saying, and this is something I've said for years and didn't even relate to this, but I'm going to say it always reserves the fact that I could change my mind about anything at any time I feel like it. And so what something might work for a year or six months or three months might not work anymore, I might need to change that practice. So I will go into all my daily individual practices because for me it's going to be different for everybody. You can look up some of the common things you're going to be burning and since you're going to be lighting candles, you're going to maybe have an image of this daily or current that you're working with. That's all pretty common stuff. How do you approach that devotion? How do you approach that reverence? It's going to be different for everybody. Sometimes I'll say prayer sometimes I'll just let it can only acknowledge and give thanks and say, "Hey, you're writing shotgun with me, right? Cool. It can be that simple. I personally think it's more important to show up every day." Regularly, sure. Even for 30 seconds, dude. It doesn't matter. You don't have to put on the black robe and swing the incense around the room. That's cool. Don't get me wrong. That's cool. But you don't have to do that stuff all the time. You can literally just like, "I come to work." My altar and my temple is in the same room where my office is in a different section. I come to work in the morning. I like my candles. I say a little prayer to whoever I'm having to be working with. I might ask to help this day go well. Can you to be my friend and mentor and walk with me on this path? I might just say something really simple like that. I think the fact of just showing up is meditation too. You just have to show up. I was going to say, just do it. Five minutes, 30-5% of the class over here. Yeah. No, yeah. I was going to say it if you didn't. That's one thing I learned from meditation. 20, 30 minutes an hour is great. But even if you can just sit down for two minutes, as long as you hit that day, that's the important thing is that consistency and that discipline and that. Checking in, but also that it's kind of an alignment, much less of feeding. If you don't feed your body every day, what's going to happen? Yeah. Also, if you do practice magic or sorcery, then you definitely want to be aligning yourself with some kind of higher other power. Making that dedication every day and just say, hey, you're walking with me. You're writing shotgun. You got my back. Cool. Now I'm going to go and do this work with the Grimari and Verum or something. I'm going to call in. All right. I got my back because I'm about to call in some shit and it's going to give wacky. I hope that you're here to get me. But if you're not establishing that, and now we're getting into magical practice, but if you're not establishing that relationship. Yeah. Who's going to be, who's got your back when you go into these other situations or magical scenarios or whatever? Almost like an interpreter/bodyguard/personals. Not a personal assistant. That's kind of demeaning. You know, I think you'll probably talk to my wife, Mandy, Mandy Wilde. She hasn't told me. She's like a content, my priestess. And she's worked with a content for like, I don't know, all life. She's like, she describes, I want to talk about her stuff. But she works with the goddess in a different way and the goddess literally works with her as kind of like a gatekeeper in some ways. And you know, they can show up and help you in different ways. I personally, when I've done magical spell sorcery, whatever, sometimes I can feel the spirit there. Not spirit I'm calling, but maybe the who I'm aligned with. Sometimes I can't. But I know that if I've worked and established that relationship that they are there, whether I have given them or not, and then I just feel like it's some security. Yeah, that makes it so much sense. Yeah, some people might align with you know like Jesus and Yahweh and something like that Hey cool, right? Oh, it doesn't work for me, but that's great for you You know, I can see why that is that works You know calling me a mighty out of nine or whatever that makes sense You know, it's like so much power there you also can call in and mighty goddess Akate and Or a Rissigal and then might be like get the fuck out of here like you don't want to mess with that goddess It's tight, so yeah, it's tight and yeah So that also brings up like I'm always curious like I find more and more I work a little more and more with seasonal stuff, although I'm still not great at Keeping totally in touch with every single moon shift or every single seasonal demarcation, but does that play into your practice at all? Oh Astrological climbing yeah, yeah, oh definitely definitely does Mandy also is and this is like a professional astrologer So she really and this you know, I can talk about having a magical partner to the life. It's like we Not only have a romantic partnership. We also have a magical partnership as well Not that we do everything together. We don't do all of our practice together, but you know, I can ask I mean like hey Blood moods coming up on the Monday. I think that's a good time to do this spell from you know the Compton propa propa re like calling in like the satanic, you know Divine like yeah, that's a great time or no. It's I don't know. It's whatever. I'm not missing this kind of this kind of whether yeah I would you could do it You know Saturn's and retrograde so maybe you might want to just be careful how you ask for those things So yeah, astrological timing definitely I've been taking I don't know Matt Hadfield from a He's been teaching a Grimmar Vroom class which I've worked with for a couple of years But I've been taking his class that involves a lot of astro Astrology into the magical practice and I've learned a ton from him ton, yeah, I yeah, I mean it totally makes sense and The lazy side of me like some of the chaos or the there's a couple other authors that even in the left hand path It's like you don't need a circle. You don't need to worry about it's a you know, they're it calendar this and that you know Just love you know these other entities. Do you think they really are you know just I think it's just like hedging your bets It's like you sure like I agree You know, you're just more study. You just have a little bit more luck on your side and you know, there's so many different aspects of that No, I'm getting excited. I'm excited to talk about this. It's fun stuff talking about I Think it's helpful if you want to practice magic that doesn't have a ton of like rules like that. I mean PGM 100% right and I've done a lot of PGM work over the last couple of years And there's a couple at Astro you know, there's a couple of rules here and there, you know, sure if I yourself were a couple of days like, you know Don't have sexual relations. Don't need some things like that But typically is not a lot of rules. Yeah So and I've had that magic work maybe better than a lot of the grammar stuff I've done I've had good some luck with grammar stuff, but so it's kind of like yes and no like I know I get that and I get I get both sides because I also you know intuitively it makes sense if you're aligned with If it's the timing of a certain planetary thing or or star star thing much less You know the moon There's proof in women every once every month, you know, they are more than but you know, so you know There's no denying that there is some influence I guess it's what I'm saying So I so it's kind of like two different so the two Main practices that I do with Swarthory and magic is grammar and for them Checked out for a few years so that done and now a lot of that is making tools and national logical timing and And it's it's hard and it's kind of supposed to be hard It can take you a whole year to kind of get everything together and I did it And then the other the other Tributarian by practices a lot of PG-M magic and I've studied with Jack Gray up for a couple of years Take about those classes and I'm honored to call him my friend, you know, and it's just pretty masterful Yeah, he's amazing. He's amazing. I always try to keep him the shout out. He's incredible And I've been lucky enough to design so his books for him and do some other work for him as well But talk about two kind of disparate paths there one is like a very regimented though actually that I will take I will say that the Verum is is less I'll say rigorous less involved and say like some of the psalmonic stuff It's it's kind of in that tradition of psalmonic magic, but it's it's got its own thing and you're really working with The unholy treadeding which is Lucifer, Astral, and Beels above so which fits in nicely with my practice anyway So in fact, that's when I made my first pact with Lucifer's through that practice a couple years ago And I tell you what when I did that it scared the living shit out of me I'm not gonna lie I mean that's it scared me because it is like kind of shit. I mean it's scary Yeah, and intense if it's not intense then either you're not invested or you're not doing something Yeah, yeah, it's But I I have a big smell in my face like after I did it though. I did feel this sort of things change Things sort of change this path kind of opened up even more I started to to kind of feel things differently, you know my magical practice change. It was this is pretty cool Reckholt's That's really a fascinating and I know you We've talked about that that you've been doing bit of work with Saturn type of Magic. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, Saturn Saturn work. You're really not supposed to talk about Yeah And I'm not trying to be Elusive like seriously. That's one of the major first things you learn is like that practice is like You don't Yeah, I've had a couple of Nobody talked about fight club or whatever Stapid reference, but you know what I mean, that's funny. Yeah, first roll of Saturn is you don't talk about Saturn You know, that has been I can tell you about a magical working. I did With Saturn not That's more grim war I can work astrological. I did it working in Matt's class, which I you know point his class You can find it on substack The astrological weather was like I can't remember when it was I have to look at my calendar But it was absolutely perfect astrological weather for doing a Talisman a Saturnal like talisman especially with Saturn has been a retrograde for like a long time Doesn't come out until November so I wanted to create a talisman that would protect me During this eternal retrograde, right? So this is so I did this whole practice and great spell and used candle magic in different modalities up to to create great an iron ring which is a metal and associated with Saturn Which I'm warned every single day for like months and months until we get out of retrograde, which is I think it's Thanksgiving And I can tell it's it's help, but that's not the central practice. That's kind of yes. It's just This is more like a Jason. Yeah, it's a Jason. It's like a planetary working using Saturn Right, it's not That's all I make a distinction because yeah, yeah, I'm talking about that too much One's interesting that I was just reading and the book I just mentioned to you. I'm gonna have that author on again of the She of the night about Lila There's so much is so dense like oh the thousand pages of all these different cultures and different praxis, but also historical There's so much to do with different woods different Well, it's et cetera, but so iron and a lot of especially I can't remember if it was lead, but a lot of Scandinavian and eastern countries like was the thing that people would carry to ward off elven and other type of entities of the woods But anyhow, so you kind of talked about having your partner Is a magical partner as well, and that's as you said teaser we're gonna have her on the show barely shortly too one, I'm jealous And I've never had a much better interview than I She's a very practice Very good I guess yeah, that's great. I'm really looking forward to that one too because yeah, I can talk for days about Hukate or I want to hear for days about Hukate too But what is that uh you've talked about that you both have some parts of your practice that are individual on some parts together What does the together part look like? Well, it depends on this kind of spell work we're we're wanting to do My idea is towards like spell work and magic in general is if you can just I'm sure people say this but if you can just do it without if you can get the thing or anything happen without using magic do that right right so often it's much easier and if you're trying to you know push you know push the pendulum a little bit then it's a nice influence so it depends on the spell like I think of an example of what something you've done together there's a spell in the PGM not the first spell we have did together but we wanted to there's a spell where you basically invoke I think you're calling in I might be getting strong but you're calling in spirit of type and set and and putting the spirit you asking type and set to bring you a spirit to keep your home safe and tidy and so I can't remember what's called I have a list of them but I forgot to put that one on there so we did that together where you're basically calling in a spirit into a donkey skull and you're asking the spirit to look over your house and keep it safe and keep it you know keep so what I was having we're having a lot of problems at in our apartment a lot of noise a lot of cravings so I was like the time was coming or some new neighbors moving in as we have to do the spell together and so we worked on it together and we we did it and we did this day we keep the keep the skull in our home and that's an example of like okay we came together to create something for us together yeah as a thing that affects both of you and is a part of both your lives and in that case I'm sure you didn't have a pet donkey that passed away like no we we're able to source like a ethic resource like skull and get it from a person and second wow for this to happen but you know a really good example actually we did this a couple of months ago it was perfect astro timing so and a very kind of left hand pat adversarial kind of spell I did the the invocation for type and set and you basically I think it's PGM I haven't written down here PGM4 151 54 to 285 you're basically asking to align yourself with this adversarial energy to help that you can call on at any moment when you're the need help when you're doing magical practice and it's it's something that if you're kind of aligning yourself with a satanic elusive area and that darker side it's you know I don't know much about typhonic or typhine the god very fucking scary destruction chaos like insane and I wanted to do this for years but I was on I'm beyond I was afraid to do I was just like I can't I just too scary and then I just one day I just said I'm doing this and so you have to go up into the roof of your home and we live in this like okay story I know exactly which one you want to talk about yeah yeah the invocation of typhine you have to go to the roof so we have we live in a big apartment building so we went up to the roof and it overlooks all of Hollywood and yet the sun has to be in the sky and there's like a lot of things and then you have to do this really really long invocation the barbarous you know names and all kinds of stuff and so and you're supposed to be on your back wrapped in a burial shroud eyes covered with ivy and blood shroud of your eyes I even had some some volcanic ash I put on my eyes the different gave to me and so you can't read it you have to like either memorize six pages or in the spell it says to have a young I think a young servant or servant boy or something like that with you to to look up and see the sign when typhine comes and so so we did the spell together she didn't want to light herself with this but she was she helped me and I basically did the whole spell and she just whispered it to in my ear and I repeated it and she whispered to me or just did the whole spell and not gonna last pretty freaky yeah yeah yeah and then they say what you got some confirmation well the confirmation is funny because we're like right and I'm trying to like out like where we live and stuff but you know we live like right in Los Angeles so in in the spell when it's accepted or when typhine we're really aligning yourself with helium I think but using typhine so it's like one of those like solar catholic that a sea Falcon comes down right I mean that's like a habit right yeah but but birds you know and so right when we finish the spell and I took this as a confirmation of it working a LAPD helicopter came right over like right over us well on the route and we're like you're like that was it bird of prey right there there you go and so that's an example of something we can do together I've also had her scribe for me when I've done uh right bear them stuff because she's a medium and that's perfect and she's like spirits are already here you don't even have to like yeah she's like I can't she's like they're right there like like oh shit so with something like that and then she has her own practice that is really really deep she works with mostly goddesses and I won't talk for her but yeah she she does a lot of stuff and then I assist her sometimes but it's more like I need her help than she needs my help that's great oh yeah so as a artist in many senses both in literal graphic art and music yeah how is it open or too nice how is both your work your magical work affected your other work and vice versa well I think another another reason that I felt attracted to online with the satanic path Luciferian path is I mean it's all about I think you know creating is kind of an active rebellion in a way I mean you could even go back to talk about the romantic satanist like Byron and Shelley and and there is something in that current that inspires me maybe not directly in the work itself though sometimes it does I've done some some work that's really super esoteric but I like to align myself with that creative rebellious you know enlightening Luciferian current when I'm creating I mean making art is like an active rebellious creation it's like yeah it's bringing some it's bringing something that wasn't in the world into bringing something into form literally bringing something you know creating something so I think it's a pretty direct regional connection. Alright thanks once again at Omen it's the part of the show where it reminds folks to like subscribe leave a review etc if you feel so inclined and enjoy these conversations and have a couple extra dollars become a patron I share an extra 15 to 30 minutes of interview that is not featured in the shows over on Patreon and yeah it's just a nice way to help make sure this thing actually gets done and gets out there also kind of tradition and outro has been me talking about something that's inspired me of late and today I'll mention once again some music so I moved to the Bay area in the mid 90s and one of the perks of being here at that time was a very vibrant music scene and one of the of said underground music scene was a band the crossed many boundaries they were somewhat neopagin they were definitely metal damaged they came from the punk scene originally and they fused lots of percussion and symphonic elements as well as visuals screens and lights etc they were a force to be reckoned with they've had some trouble in recent years they broke up for a minute a founding member self canceled himself and so the rest of the band so goodbye to him but all this to say that the other day they dropped a surprise brand new release with the amazing title of an undying love for a burning world this takes their music into the 2020s it's really really surprisingly vital something sounding, and as the title hints at an undying love for a burning world, it's still neurosis with their post-apocalyptic vibe and dirge symphonic psychedelic mesh of a sound, but there's also some hope in there. There's some resistance and just a fighting spirit. I love the sound, there's a bit more keyboards than there used to be, which add nice layers and some color to what could be monochromatic with such dark, slow, heavy, heavy music. In addition to replace their fallen member, they've recruited the help of Aaron Turner, who fronts an amazing post-metal, spare metal metal. I don't even know what to call it. Ban called Sumac, who are also one of my favorites. So there's so much for me to love in this, and hopefully you, if you enjoy heavy music. The last song, "Last Light" is a 17-minute epic from front to back. It's an intense and invigorating lesson. So that's neurosis with an undying love for a burning world. All right, so be attuned to those spaces between breaths, those spaces between consciousness and sleep, those spaces between consensual reality and the mystic, because that's where it all happens. [Music] [Music]