Actor Danielle Brooks has blessings to count

This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. When Danielle Brooks started appearing in the Netflix series Orange is the New Black, as the character Tasty, she was astonished to find she was recognized wherever she went. Orange was about women in prison, and Brooks played one of those women. When the series premiered in 2013, Brooks was a recent graduate of Juilliard, and Netflix was relatively new to producing original content. Two years later, while still filming Orange, she learned she'd gotten a role in the Broadway revival of The Color Purple as Sophia, the character that Oprah Winfrey played in the 1985 film. Rather than giving up one of those roles, she continued to shoot Orange while also performing on Broadway. The Color Purple had special significance for Danielle Brooks. The original production of the musical was the first Broadway show she'd ever seen. It convinced her she wanted to act and that there might be a place for a black woman like her. She was nominated for a Tony for her performance in the revival, and was nominated for an Oscar when she played Sophia again in the 2023 movie adaptation of the Broadway musical. While preparing for this interview, I learned she played the beloved gospel singer Mahalia Jackson in a 2021 biopic for the Lifetime channel that's now streaming on several platforms. She gets to do a lot of singing in that, and as you'll hear later, it really shows off how emotionally and physically powerful her voice is. Brooks started singing and acting, in church. Her mother is a minister. Her father is a recently retired deacon. Brooks was also recently in a Minecraft movie and in the series Peacemaker. Now she's in a new indie film called If I Go, Will They Miss Me? It's about how one family's life is changed when the husband and father is released from prison and returns home, emotionally distant from his wife and two children. Brooks plays the wife and mother who has a steady job and is holding the family together with no hands. But I never Never, never, never, never, never, never thought I'd have to fight in my own house. I feel sorry for you to tell you the truth. You remind me of my mama under your husband's thumb. Now, you under your husband's foot, what he say, go away. Oh, man, I love that. You sound so good in that. One of the hardest things in a musical, I think, is to get from the dialogue into the song. And I'm wondering what that was like for you. Like how you try to make that transition. From dialogue to song. Well, I think, you know, we're taught when it's time to sing, it's the most heightened moment of the section. You know, whatever part. Right. It's too big to express just through spoken word. Exactly. And so I think that just helps, you know, you as an actor to know the movement of the piece. You know, and that was exciting to get to do that. And so because I'm. I'm not a theater girl like people, a musical theater girl, like people think, Terry. You know, that was I had done only one other musical before that. And that was Rent, you know, and I didn't grow up. Where were you in Rent? I was the soloist, the 525,600, the main soloist in Seasons of Love who hits the high note. Oh, was this on Broadway? No. I was in Ithaca, New York at a theater, a regional theater. Yeah. And I didn't grow up, you know, listening to all the musical theater. So I was a church girl. But you sang in church, right? Yes. I sang in church from four, three, four years old. I was singing in church and wasn't much of a soloist to say. I was definitely a part of the choir. And there's video of me singing. I was singing in church when I did have solos. And you can see I'm so shy. Like, I literally had the lyrics, like the words, you know, written on a piece of paper. And I'm looking at them because I'm so scared that I'm going to forget them. I'm super shy back then. How did you get from super shy to singing a song like Hell No? God, truly. Like, I feel like, you know what? This is what I'll say. For me. I am playing a character I get to escape. And that is my favorite place to be because I get to not be Danielle. When someone would ask me to sing as Danielle, it would terrify me. But ask me to sing as Sophia. Ask me to sing as Mahalia. I got you. Because it was my way of, like, hiding behind the character. Let's talk more about singing and church. So you grew up singing in church, mostly in the choir. But starting when you were, like, three or four, what were some of your favorite gospel songs? Ooh, that is such a good question. Oh, man. There was this song. It goes, I have some good days. I've had some hills to climb. I've had some weary days. And some sleepless. And some sleepless nights. But when I look around, and I think things over, all of my good days outweigh my bad days. And I won't, I won't complain. That was one of my favorite songs. What made it one of your favorites? Well. When I was six, that was, or six or seven, I don't remember. It was my first church solo. Now, what does a six, seven-year-old know about complaining and good days and bad days? I don't know. But that was my song. And then when I became an adult, I understood what that song meant. That's why I love that song so much. Because we do have good days and we have bad days. It's unescapable. Being a person, right? But it's also perspective at times. It's like, how are you choosing to see those days? And I choose to do as least amount of complaining as I can, you know? And that's what that song is really saying. It's like, how can you just see the good when you look around and think things over? And gratitude should always lead the way. We were talking earlier about being. And you got there with the help of $20,000 that your godmother left for you in her will. And I think she died not long before you got accepted to Juilliard. Who was your godmother who was so generous? Her name was Annie Edge. She was so spectacular to me. She was an older woman, probably in her 60s. And we just bonded. I asked her to be my. I met my godmother at five, and I met her at church. And so my mom said, yeah, and we were stuck at the hip. I mean, I would spend the night over at her house. You know, she taught me what an English muffin was. You know, I taught her to forget people that were behind her when she's driving, and they're asking her to drive faster by honking. I was like, don't worry about them, Miss Edge. Like, we were tight. And she unfortunately passed away from cancer. When I was 15. And that hit hard for me. That was one of my first losses. I hadn't experienced death in a personal way outside of losing my mother's mother. So this was a heavy one for me. I was tight with her. And I had no idea that she had left $20,000 in her will for my college education. And we needed that money, Terry. We. You know, I was the firstborn, and my parents were lower middle class at the time. And, you know, they worked really hard, but wasn't able at the time to save money for my college, you know. And had expectations at the time for me to, you know, not study it. They didn't know that their kid was going to want to go to Juilliard. You know, they were thinking maybe a state, in-state school. You know, where you can get funds from the state. You know, make it cheaper. But, yeah, their baby girl had big dreams. And, you know, luckily, Ms. Edge saw something in me and made that generous donation to my education. And I have something called the Annie Edge Scholarship, which the Annie Edge Scholarship I started over five years ago. And it's, you know, you have to. And it was only for my, you know, the kids at the church who were getting ready for college, you know. And so, yeah, I just am so thankful for Ms. Edge. And that's my way of honoring her. Did Ms. Edge have children? She did not. I was her child. No, she did not have any kids. Wasn't married. Yeah, it was just her. How did your mother feel about that? Do you think she was at all jealous? No, I think my mother knew that it takes a village. And I think she was so grateful that I had somebody like Ms. Edge. And I'm grateful that my mom, you know, functions like that. Because there are parents who do get jealous that their kid doesn't run to them first for whatever. But my mom took it as like, oh, thank God she has somebody that I can trust, that I know, that is instilling goodness. Good things in her that she can lean on. And I treat my daughter the same way. You know, I can't always be there because of the line of work that I do. I always make sure that my presence is known, that mommy is here. But I can't always physically be there. And so I, because of how my mother treated me with Ms. Edge, I do the same thing. And I am very encouraging of, you know, Freya connecting with other positive women. Yeah, Freya. Yeah. this is fresh air. This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Danielle Brooks. She co-stars on the new film If I Go, Will They Miss Me? In the Netflix series Orange is the New Black, she played Tasty. In the Broadway revival of the musical The Color Purple, and in the 2023 film adaptation of the musical, she played Sophia. She's also known for her roles in A Minecraft Movie and for the series Peacemaker, for which she won a Critics' Choice Award. She played gospel singer Mahalia Jackson in a biopic for the Lifetime channel that's now streaming on several platforms. Brooks's father is a retired deacon. Did you hear a lot of Mahalia Jackson when you were growing up? I did. I did. Yeah, she definitely was in our home, for sure. My mother's a singer as well, so. Oh, okay. So when you got the part as Mahalia Jackson, in a movie that's officially called Robin Roberts Presents Mahalia. And so what, your parents must have been so excited because your mother is a minister and your father was a deacon. Yes, the church was so excited. And, you know, the movie actually dropped during the pandemic. In 2021. Yeah. So what we did was we did a private screening for the church that I grew up in, in Simpsonville, South Carolina, Bethlehem Baptist Church. And everybody stayed in their cars. And we got a huge projector out in the parking lot. And everyone listened from a radio station and watched it like old school, you know, movies. They watched it in their cars. And that was so cool. You know, like this place that I, I really do think helped me to love the theater, believe it or not. Like the church, is where I think my love for theater came to be able to share something with them that I knew was going to be meaningful. So I want to play you as Mahalia Jackson from the soundtrack of the movie. And what I want to play is My God is Real. Oh, wow. You sound great on this. So, so let's hear it. This is my guest, Danielle Brooks. Oh, there are some things I may not know. There are some places, dear Lord, I cannot go. Oh, there are some places, dear Lord, I cannot go. I cannot go. I cannot go. Yeah, a lot of people, right? - Right? - Yeah, I think so. - Yeah. - What did they want you to do want to do? Oh, that's a deep question. Uh, well, one thing, you know, was there was a fear of me going to Juilliard. Um, my mother was really scared for me. And my dad said to me, he's like, I want you to follow your heart. And so, um, I did, you know, I went to Juilliard and, uh, she was just scared of like, you know, being in New York and her child leaving at 17. And then she was nervous about me doing Orange is the New Black. And then my father again was like, follow your heart. And, um, I did, and that changed my life, you know, but then there was that fear of like, what is she being exposed to? You know, there's a lot, the subject matter of lesbians and gays was all up in, in between Orange is the New Black. So that was a fear, you know, of what I was being taught. Foul language. Foul language. I mean, we had. Drugs. Come on, the list goes on and on. Yeah, I can keep going. Yeah. So yeah, mama was shooketh. Um, but she got over it. She, she really started to see the beauty of the show as time went on. Your first scene in Orange is the New Black where, you know, the, the person whose story we start with, um, is in prison and then every, everybody gets their stories, but, you know, it's based on the character whose memoir the series is based on. But anyway, so she gets in the shower, your character comes by and makes comments about her body and gets into the shower naked. And when you, I know when you read that, you thought, oh, I can't, I can't do naked. Terry, you already know. I was like, I can't do naked. Right. And you're probably thinking about what your parents would think, but, but you're not really naked. I mean, we don't see. That was my choice, though. We know that you're in the shower naked. So did you tell the director, I want the role. I can't be naked. You can't see my naked body. I waited until I got there and I was terrified because I knew it was in the, on this page, you know, it was like, she takes her clothes off and gets in the shower. And I think they, I think low key, if I would have done it, they would have kept it. Like if I would have said, all right, here's, you know, I'm doing it. They would have kept it. But I remember, our director's name was Michael. And I talked to him about it and we found a solution. And do you know how I felt like this weight lifted off of my shoulder when we came up with that solution where we did not have to be topless? I was like, wow. Like, because when you're coming into this industry, you hear all of these stories, you know, and, and all of these sacrifices people make to get the job done. And I was like, wow. And I was like, wow. And I was like, wow. And I was scared. I was like, I don't want to enter this. And this is the start for me. It's like my first scene. I'm just going to be known as the girl who takes the clothes off. Like I was saying, I'm an inmate. Like, what am I doing? But it was the best decision ever that I could have ever made for my career. If you're just joining us, my guest is Daniel Brooks. She co-stars in the new film, If I Go, Will They Miss Me? You may also know her from Orange is the New Black, The Color Purple, a Minecraft movie, and the series Peacemaker. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air. Let's get back to my interview with Daniel Brooks. She co-stars on the new film, If I Go, Will They Miss Me? She's known for playing Tasty in the Netflix series, Orange is the New Black, and Sophia in the Broadway revival of the musical, The Color Purple, and the 2023 film adaptation of the musical. Brooks grew up in the Baptist church. Her mother is a she sang in the church choir. In 2021, she portrayed gospel singer Mahalia Jackson in a biopic that is now streaming on several platforms. One of the things I love about gospel songs and hymns is that so many of them are about death, about the fear of death, about the release of death, being reunited with loved ones. Some of the songs are from the perspective of being frightened. Some of the songs are from the perspective of being frightened, and others are reassuring. I wonder if you have a favorite gospel song about death. I do. It's called Precious Lord, and it goes, Precious Lord, take my hand, lead me on, and let me stand. I am tired. I am weak. I am worn. Through the storm, through the night, lead me on to the light. So won't you take, take my hand, precious Lord, and lead me on. Yeah, that's one about death. And it is so beautiful. You sing that in the Mahalia Jackson movie. I do. And Mahalia Jackson sang it at Martin Luther King's. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Such tie-ins. And do you know that from church, from when you were growing up? I do. And it's definitely a song that I heard all the time in church. And we sang it, you know, when it was time to leave church, and we sang it at people's funerals. I even think I sang it at my grandmother's funeral, if I'm not mistaken. I believe I did. But yeah, that song I heard all the time. Back in, when you were 25, and you're about to be 37, so that was about a little more than 10 years ago, there was an article in Glamour magazine that had your byline, and it was headlined, How I Learned to Love My Body. And it's all about body image, being plus-sized, your hair. And you said, or you wrote, by the standard definition of beauty that I had absorbed, from the world around me, I had three strikes against me. I was too dark, too curly, and too fat. And you ask a question in that essay that I think is a really important one. You write, if art is supposed to reflect life, why don't the people on red carpets and in magazines reflect reality? It doesn't. It doesn't. I think about it all the time. I just remember being in rooms like Golden Globes, and I would say to myself, Terry, I would say, is there anybody in here I could change a dress with? And if you think about it, there are 67% of women that wear a size 14 or more. And that does not reflect what we see on television. Now it's starting to change and shift. You know, we're having amazing actresses out now that are reflective, you know, but in Hollywood, we're talking about A-listers, big dogs, the ones that are on Vogue, and Cosmopolitan, and Vanity Fair, they do not look like me. And I think that has been one of my main goals, is to be able to like bust open the box, break that thing down, and really allow this next generation to say, wow, man, if Danielle was able to do that, I can do that. What do you think the GLP-1s has done to the body positivity movement? Oh, now you're getting deep. I think, now this might be controversial, but I think it's helping because I don't think body positivity is just about like loving your body, you know, even if it's big, just love it. I think you should love your body at whatever size, you know, and for me, like, I've lost 80 pounds. People don't really notice. I don't understand why, because I'm very proud of it. Like, I've lost 80 pounds from when I had my daughter in 2019. And there was moments when I had gained that weight, and I wanted, I was hiding. I was hiding from the world when it came to social media. You know, if you go back and watch that first episode of Peacemaker, you're going to see those 80 pounds on the screen. And I think that's a good thing. But I worked really hard. I worked super hard on my own, you know, and to got down to maybe like 60 pounds, you know, less on my body. And then I started taking GLP-1s. And, and I'm not ashamed. At first I was, at first I was like, definitely, what am I doing? Like, is this healthy? Is this safe? And after being on them for months, I, am very happy that I made that choice. You know, I feel more confident, and I think the thing that I have always preached is love yourself wherever you are. I have never said that you got to stay there, so I'm here for it. Daniel Brooks co-stars in the new movie, If I Go, Will They Miss Me? It's currently in a limited release and will open in more theaters this Friday. This is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air. She co-stars in the film, If I Go, Will They Miss Me? She's known for her role in the Netflix series, Orange is the New Black, as Tasty, and for her role in the Broadway revival of the musical, The Color Purple, and in the 2023 film adaptation of the musical, as Sophia. Brooks was also in a Minecraft movie and recently won a Critics' Choice Award for her performance in the series, Peacemaker, adapted from a DC Comics superhero series. I want to play one more song, and this is a song from an EP of four songs that you recorded, and this is a song that you co-wrote, and John Batiste is featured on it. We hear his voice very, very briefly on it, but what role did he play on this? Did he produce it, arrange it? Is he at the piano? He's at the piano. He came at the end on the organ and spiced up the song for me and lended his voice, like you say, very lightly. And we kind of go back to that Juilliard feel that I had mentioned, that call and response at the very end of the song. And I think it's interesting, given all the discussion that we had about church and gospel music, that this is a secular song, but it's called Blessings, and it's about kind of, you know, being grateful for your blessings. Can you talk a little bit about what inspired the song? Hey, I guess I'm really just fond of, you know, staying positive, man. Like, I just know that life gets tough, and I guess this was my version of the gospel song, I Won't Complain. You know, it's that reminder to count your blessings. I'm on my feet, you know, four, five, six, no, I can't forget. At the end of the day, I got blessings to count. Like, I got so much to be grateful for, you know, and I think for me, I just, I need that reminder, you know, and I want people to be reminded. And the reason I want people to be reminded is because we affect each other so powerfully, you know, and how beautiful that is, if we could just find ways to uplift each other. Daniel Brooks, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Terry. Thank you for having me. Thank you for your poignant questions and, you know, allowing me to reflect on what life has been in my 37 years almost. You know, I really appreciate you. Thank you. And here you are singing Blessings. Blessings, blessings, blessings to count. Count one, two, three, I'm still on my feet. Count four, five, six, no, I can't forget. At the end of the day, while there's blood flowing through my veins, I've got blessings, blessings, blessings, blessings to count. When I feel unqualified, and it seems like I can't make it through, no matter how hard I try. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, has said, are like real estate deals. He's involved with both as a U.S. special envoy negotiating peace plans while working on private business deals with some of the same countries. We'll talk with the New Yorker's Dexter Filkins about his story, Jared Kushner's dollar diplomacy. I hope you'll join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger, our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Boldenado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakunde, Anna Bauman, and Nico Gonzalez-Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.