Acing the Interview: Warner Bros. Discovery’s Recruiting Executives on Landing the Job

There's certain things that are critical to the work force at large right now that interviewers are going to be looking for. So your skill set those hard skills, but soft skills are now becoming those hard skills. Are you resilient? Can you adapt? Are you a good communicator, right? And that's being assessed in how you're navigating the interview. What's your follow up? Like what's your follow through like? Can you walk me through a process? Hi everyone, welcome to our first video episode of The Empowered Women's Podcast. I'm Danielle Gardner, VP of Talent here at Warner Brothers Discovery and your host for The Empowered Women's Podcast. What a great way to kick off. We have a returning guest back by popular demand, Antoinette Miller, our Director of Diversity Outrage. And today's topic is one, our listeners have been asking for for quite a while. It's the art of effective interviewing. And in our roles, we have done thousands of interviews across all levels. And so today we're going to have a really in-depth chat about all the things we need to be thinking about. How are you preparing for an interview? The questions you need to ask, how you structure your answers? How you structure your experience and your roles for those of us who have an interviewed for a really long time. So you're going to get all the tea here. But before we dive in, Antoinette, can you give us a little bit of background on your experience and why you are such a great person to be helping this conversation with? Well, thanks for having me, Janille. It's exciting to have this conversation again. But as Janille mentioned, I'm Antoinette. I'm the Director of Diversity Outreach here at WVD. I've been here for about a year now, back here. And I've spent about 15 years in the industry. My career has been quite a bit of a hybrid of career development, DE and I, and recruiting. And so I've spent some time being a recruiter at HBO for many, many years and then moved to NBC Universal to be in a corporate diversity capacity and then moved into a non-profit called the Emma Bowen Foundation, which helps prepare students for careers in the media. So I've had a little bit of in-house experience and also on the non-profit side. And then we still go back. All right. Prepping for the interview. So everyone will tell you, prep for the interview, but what does that really look like? We know a couple of things are table stakes. You know, read the job description, check out their LinkedIn, go to the company website. All of those things are just obvious. But what are some of the things that a candidate can do that really makes them stand out in an interview and you can tell as an interviewer, let's start from early careers. What are some of those things? Yeah. And you know, it's a little tricky when you're starting out in your career, right? You kind of want to sell yourself, but you might not really be sure about where you want your career to go or what your interests are, right? Internships and that first job helps you navigate and understand what that looks like. But I think just exercising natural curiosity in the conversation is always amazing. I think having some sort of excitement and optimism about the industry where it's going, how you think you can contribute. Just having that intel around how the operations of the industry works really comes across to me as an interviewer. So again, you don't have to have it all figured out, but definitely those who have a point of view and a perspective, a positive perspective, which we'll talk about later on, is really key to selling yourself as an early career individual. Of course, like you said, we can do LinkedIn research. And I think that's really helpful for this upcoming generation is that I think when we were coming up, we might not have had all of those resources at our fingertips. So having those resources now, you really can't say that you didn't do your research before our prepping for an interview. And you want to make it more than surface level because you can tell. And so can we talk about some of those resources that you have at your disposal that you might not be thinking about? One that comes to mind for me is the earnings call. So probably, when you're more junior in your career, you probably don't have as much context, but as you're more experienced, and I should add for the audience, I let our exact search function for six years prior to being in this role. And that's one of the things you could really tell. I think your experience is one thing, but then the context within which that experience is applied is something that's really critical. And so I think anything you can do in your preparation to understand the context of the environment that you're moving into is going to be phenomenal. So listen to the earnings call for publicly traded companies if you're applying to publicly traded company, understand what are the priorities of the C suite because that will impact your leaders priorities. Absolutely. And that will tell folks that you understand the business and you can really add value. So definitely leverage that. Use that to help you prepare for the interview. And then leverage the recruiter and we're going to talk about that a little bit. The difference between what you ask the recruiter that you're working with. If you have that opportunity versus what you ask your actual hiring manager when you're interviewing. So what are some of those additional resources that they might want to tap into? Yeah. So I would say definitely the earnings call. I would say do your research. Obviously, the career's website is important. We talked about LinkedIn a little bit. I think YouTube is always instrumental as well, but also looking at specific individuals. We're in an industry where a lot of our business information is public facing. So it's really easy to kind of do that research. And I'll give an example, which might seem funny to the audience, but when I was interviewing Janiel interviewed me for the job that I have now. And one of the first things I did was listen to this podcast and I wanted to get a perspective of what the culture is like. What do employees have to say about the organization? How do they feel? How are they embraced? And I think this helped me to also figure out if this is a place that I want to work at, right? You're always on the opposite end as the interviewer, but you are also an interviewer in some aspect as well, right? You want to do your research. You want to find out under the layers what's happening in the company. And I would say, you know, research a lot of things. A lot of the things that we do as an organization are public facing. So you can't really say that it's hard to find out information. And I think leveraging that information in a positive way is important. I think everything is contextualized in some sort of a way. And so you have to pull out those nuggets that really align with what you're interviewing for and bring that to the discussion when you're on that interview. And let's talk about how you leverage people in the process as a resource. You might be working with a recruiter. You might know someone that works there. You might interact with a coordinator. How do you leverage different individuals as a resource? What are you asking? I'm ahead of the interview to help you interview more effectively versus what you ask the hiring manager when you're meeting with them. Yes. And there's sometimes going to be a few layer of individuals that you meet with first before you even get to that proper interview with the hiring manager. We have individuals called sorcerers who are helpful in pre-wedding candidates for recruiters. And so those are the individuals, the sorcerers, the recruiters. They help you uncover the things that you might not feel comfortable asking in the interview. And they're there to prepare you. They're there to vet and screen you. But they're also there to give you nuggets on how you should present yourself. What's the climate of the team? Why is the job available? And so you want to ask those questions, if they're not already presented to you, to those individuals. So that you feel ready and prepared when you're having the conversation with the hiring manager. The recruiter is there to help set you up in a successful way. They want you to get the job, right? And so you want to be able to ask all of the things that maybe you weren't able to research or maybe if you did find out some information that was online or elsewhere, they can help again contextualize that for you. They can elaborate. They can give you more insight to what that means and how that fits into the role that you're interviewing for. Yeah. And they can help you figure out as well what's important to the hiring manager. Because they would have had a thorough briefing call with the hiring manager. They might have been looking for someone for a while, depending on where you are in the process, whether you're the first candidate or they've spoken to others. They have a lot of information that they can give to you. And so that's something that I think candidates should be thinking about, how are you leveraging the recruiter? And then understanding as well, what might success look like in the first couple of months? You talked a little bit about why is this role available, go as deep as you can. They might say, hey, this is a new position, is that new because you're growing? Is this a replacement? Why are we replacing this role? There's a lot of contexts within that that might be a little bit, you might not have time during the interview and you might feel uncomfortable asking the hiring manager, but you can ask the recruiter. And sometimes that can be sensitive. So let's talk a little bit about the framing. So you want to build a relationship with the recruiter so you can have more candid conversations. Can you talk a little bit about that? And there's a fine line with that too, right? We talked about this in that, you want to build a rapport with the recruiter, but they're not your friend, right? They are assessing you, they are figuring out, based on the conversation that they've had with the hiring team, are you the right person to push forward into the process? And so you have to keep that in mind, but yes, they can give you those intangibles, talk to you about the team dynamic, talk to you about the priorities of the role of the organization, where the organization is at the time, maybe the company just went through a merger, maybe they're hiring a lot of folks because there's growth in the business. So they can give you that information ahead of time and also that information that they're giving you is a part of that research. It's a part of those resources, so they might give you until that later on, you can dig deeper into, again, prepare yourself for that hiring manager interview. And they are also interviewing you. Yes. So I think keep that in mind as well, like they are not formally interviewing you, but their interactions with you are forming part of the larger assessment of the company. So also keep that in mind as you're interacting with them. Yeah, particularly if you're a passive candidate, right? So a lot of times when we're thinking about the interview process, we're thinking about us as the candidate actively applying and then getting a response or reaction from the organization. Sometimes you're not even in the market and a recruiter reaches out to you and says, "Hey, we'd like to have that conversation." And even if it's not a job that you intend to pursue or you want to be hired for, maybe along the way you realize actually I do want to pursue this position. And so you want to make sure that you are showing up as someone who is interested in the company engaged in the role throughout the entire process, whether an active candidate or passive. And be thoughtful about how you respond to the recruiter. Even if you don't want the job, having been in this industry for a really long time, it is all swings and roundabouts. Oh, yes. You might be in an up market where you have 15, 20 recruiters reaching out to you. And you might not necessarily be interested, but give a polite response because you're brand building, because things change. And then a down mark, particularly if it's a recruiter from a company, make sure it's a thoughtful response that is indicative of the kind of brand you want to be perceived as. And if you do decide you want to engage and you change your mind throughout, also be thoughtful about how you navigate that process as well. Just be very considerate of people's time, be very direct with your responses, and don't ghost your recruiter. If you change your mind, don't ghost the recruiter because it's a very small industry. I don't know. You just never know. You never know. And I think that has reigned true for me and my career as well in so many ways. And you know, people find it just so interesting and fascinating. But almost every job that I've interviewed for, I didn't get that initial job for so many factors. And we could talk about all the things that are happening behind the scenes that candidates aren't privy to that they may think, wow, this process is taking really long or they might get anxious or just upset or, you know, just bothered by taking so long. But most of the jobs that I have interviewed for, I interviewed for one job and they followed up with me and said, you know what, you didn't get this job, but we'd like to keep you in the process. Here's another position that we might want to consider you for. And I think if I didn't have positive interactions with the recruiter or the interview or the hiring team on that initial conversation, then they wouldn't consider me for something else. It's been great even this role. Even this role. Right. Right. Yeah. I left legacy war in her media in 2019 and made my way back and so because I had good relationships because I left on a high note, I think it was just that more seamless for me to be considered for the role. Yeah. And especially in industries like this, your name is going to reach a room before you do. And so when we talk about this all the time, so if you listen to previous episodes, you probably wouldn't have heard this, but you're always representing your brand. Think about yourself as a brand, small interactions matter. Yes. You interacted with someone that was doing a similar job before you left. And so had you not had those positive interactions, he would not have preferred you. And so this is, these things are important. So prepping for the interview. I want to talk about some of the things that you do in preparation. So there are some folks that know they're resume back to front, but I think it's important for you to think about your role, think about the impact you're driving. So can we talk about some of the things you do as you're sitting down at home preparing, some of the things you want to be thoughtful about? Yeah. Definitely think about using numbers and storytelling to illustrate for the interviewer what it is that you do and what you're going to be able to contribute to in this current job. I think people don't think about that enough. And I think also researching different types of questions. You should know that they're going to ask you behavioral questions, situational questions. Maybe there might be a problem solving, brain teaser in there, not in the way of a trivia question, but more so to make you think critically or demonstrate your critical thinking skills, which are important. And I think depending on your level, as you get more senior in your career, those types of questions are going to come up. What's your managerial style? How do you lead? How do you influence? How do you communicate? Yeah. And you're going to be able to articulate that in a way that's clear, that's concise, that's succinct, and really, again, paint a picture for the interviewer of how you're going to be able to demonstrate those skillsets when you're on the job. Yeah. And I find sometimes candidates will talk around a subject instead of going into it. And so that comes from potentially them thinking, oh, I remember this happened, but not sitting down and reflecting on what exactly happened in that situation. And so I encourage you to think about it using the star methodology. As you're thinking about what you've done in your role, think about the impact you've driven, how the situation came about, what action you took, what the result was, think about areas of achievement, think about what impact it drove for the business. That will help you give quite a rich answer, but still in a succinct way. Think about your areas of growth that comes up often. What are the areas that you want to focus on? I think people get nervous about that because they're not quite sure how to frame it. So can we talk a little bit about that? Yeah. The framing is important. And I think again, if you think of it in the context of storytelling, beginning, middle and end, you'll be able to fine tune and frame what your answer is. And again, I'm sure in everyone's career, they can think of a plethora of achievements or things that they think they've done great. But again, when you're thinking about that, think about it in the context of the role. Think about what is going to be that selling point. Again, you're selling yourself in this interview. So what's that selling point that's really going to resonate with the interviewer versus a random achievement or a random accomplishment and get to the end. I think the circle part of it sometimes comes across when you're nervous or you haven't practiced it, right? And so sometimes you don't know when to end. Maybe you're not getting those cues from the interviewer on, did that point that you made land? So you feel like you have to say more, but just get to the end of it, focus on, again, those must-air points and just flow with it. It should be a conversation, but again, don't select random things. If you've practiced and you've prepped, you know exactly which examples to go to. Yeah. And I think that's the thing. When you're practicing, think about it, but also say it out loud. Yes. It feels silly. I've had folks say, hey, I talked to myself in the mirror, I respond because sometimes when you're saying things that sounds naturally, it sounds natural or unnatural and so you get a sense of that. And then there's a fine balance when we talk about how you actually land the answer of not feeling scripted. But just think about that in terms of what is the context. And we've that into the things that we talked about at the start where you were thinking about the context of the environment. For example, we are in an industry now going through a lot of change. We recently merged as an organization. Think about your responses in the context of the environment of the company. And that shows the interviewer that you've done your homework, that you really do want this job and that you're going to be competent. Absolutely. And I think even in that example, right, you're pursuing a job where the company is going through change. There's a merger, there are things happening. Think about what is it that's going to resonate with the interviewer that tells them, okay, this person can hit the ground running. They understand the context of business and why mergers happen or why changes are happening in the industry. And this is what they're going to be able to contribute. And so giving an answer around that is going to be helpful for you to kind of stand out as a good candidate. And have a point of view. Yeah. Like, one thing I've noticed is a candidate might mention, oh, I saw this in the news. What do you, they want to make reference to the fact that they've done some homework, but it's not a smooth landing. Yes. They don't have a point of view. And sometimes I'll ask, what's your point of view about that? How would you have a point of view and be authentic? Yes. Sometimes the candidate will want to give the answer. They think the manager wants them to give. And so I think especially as you become more senior in your career, you aren't necessarily recruiting for someone as a hiring manager that is going to just take direction from you. You want someone that's a thought leader. I mean, one of the things that's important in our, any industry you're in right now, skills are important. Yes. But the skills shift happens so quickly that it really is about how you approach problem-solving. I want to see how you think about things, do you want to see how you critically think about things. I want to see what your approach is going to be. So those things that previously were categorized as softer skills, actually, those are the things that are really, really critical now. Like, how do you approach problem-solving? How do you collaborate with others? How do you manage change? How do you deal with ambiguity? How do you bring others along? And so all of those things I'm assessing during the interview, I'm assessing your ability to tell a coherent story. And so think about all of those things, have a conversation, have a mate that you work with that understands your industry that you can have a little huddle with and they can give you feedback on. So great. I also want to talk about now that we've prepped, we feel good, we have our answers. Yeah, you get to the interview, nerve set in, how do you ensure that you're structuring your answers and it's coming out the way you intend for it to come out? Yeah, and sometimes that's hard, right? We're all human. And even you can prep all day, all night, sometimes, at exhaustion. And then when it's time to go live, you forget everything that you plan to say. And I think, you know, that again is in the prep. You have to know yourself. You have to know how do you manage those types of scenarios, because it will show. But again, I think some of that practice, you just have to sit with confidence, right? I think the reason why the recruiter called you back or called you or initiated a call is because they see, they like what they see, right? They've looked at your background, whether they have your resume or looked at you on LinkedIn or maybe you were a referral, there's something about you that peaks their interest. And so they want to know more, so be confident in that, if you are looking to take a step up in your career, make a lateral move, whatever it is, change industries, there's something about the capabilities and expertise that you bring to the table that's unique about you. And so sit with that, sit in that confidence, bring that to the conversation. And it's okay to be nervous. It's okay to have some of those jitters. You're meeting someone for the first time. You want to make a good impression. And so I think all of those things are going to come up. But again, if you talk yourself through, listen, I know I'm a good candidate for this job. And running with that is going to help you be a little bit more at ease. And like we said, it's a conversation. This is not your 30 year ago interview kind of dynamic, right? People want to know, do you have a personality in there? Who are you going to be when you show up? Are you a team player? Like you said, there's certain things that are critical to the workforce at large right now. That interviewer is going to be looking for. So your skill set, those hard skills, but soft skills are not becoming those hard skills. Are you resilient? Can you adapt? What's your follow up, like, what's your follow through, like, can you walk me through a process from beginning to end, right, inception to execution? So those things, if you know you're really good at that, speak about those in a very confident and a short way. And I think it'll go over well in the conversation. Yeah. And I want to talk about like the how you do that. Because sometimes you get a question and you weren't expecting it, it's tough. And it kind of throws you. And sometimes the tendency is to review the script you have in your head. The first thing I will say, and we talked about this at the start, listen to the question. Listen to the question in its entirety. Don't interrupt the hiring manager because you want to make sure you have a full grasp of what they want to get from you. You also want to make sure that you're being thoughtful. It's okay to say, "Huh. That's a good question. I hadn't thought about that." Or give me a second or, you know, you can frame things that give you time to collect your thoughts. And we talked about the star methodology. So think about what you want this interviewer to know about you in the particular situation. They have just referenced. And so think about exactly what was happening. What did I do? What was the action that I took and what was the outcome? What's the impact of that I'm trying to drive? So can we talk about that a little bit? Yeah, I love that you talk about taking a moment to pause before you rush your answer. I think sometimes that happens, right? Sometimes the interviewer, you've studied all the questions that you think are going to come up, but they ask you something that you didn't really plan for. But again, going to your toolbox of, again, what is it that you're going to say that is going to convey the best answer to the interviewer so that they can visualize you in the job? And so taking that pause to just think or say, I think the interviewer will appreciate that more. They say, "Oh, there's a human in there." And that this isn't so skirted and so buttoned up. And so being able to take that moment, review the kind of things that you want to say in your head, and then starting to answer the question, it will come out much better. And again, the interviewer will respect you more because they know that you've actually given it some thought. They too might even know that they've thrown you off, right? They can tell. Maybe that question was intentionally to throw you off, not in a negative way. And I think always think that the interviewer has the best intentions for you. Again, they're trying to fill a role. So they are really just truly trying to get underneath. Are you qualified for the job? Will you fit into the culture? Can you manage this role? And so think, if you're thinking with that in mind, you'll be able to pause a little bit more and be comfortable with whatever your answer is. I'm just okay to ask clarifying questions. It is. What do you mean by that? Can you repeat that in what way, you know, I think those again help. Because maybe the interviewer didn't ask the question in the way that they should, right? Or in the way that they might think it resonates well with you. And so it is okay to stop them to kind of say, hey, from what point of view would you like me to start from? Or I can give a number of examples, which one would you, you know, I have a few things that I can talk about. Let me see. Okay. Well, I have one example of X, Y, and Z, and then that might give them an opportunity to do a little bit deeper or say, oh, wow, that's great. Let's talk more. So I think, again, it's that conversational piece that you need to lean into. 100%. I could do that, I could think about that in a couple of ways. Did I answer your question? That's an important one. Sometimes you'll say, actually, I want to know a little bit more about this or a little bit more about that. Yes. And then you can ask, how would that work here? Yes. Like, you know, like, that's how we've handled it in the past. How do you guys handle that? And so that gives them an opportunity. Sometimes you'll see that we'll take the interview a little bit, but we're surprised. And then that will, like, that also relaxes the room. One of the other things you're especially, as you become more senior, you are being assessed on your gravitas. And gravitas is one of those intangible things that we talk about. That is like, how do you hold a room? Oh, yeah. How do you, how poised are you under pressure? How are you with thinking on your feet? Can you lead multiple personalities to get to one goal? Yeah. And really, you see that in an interview. You see, like, if someone is getting flustered pretty easily, that's something that is being assessed. They're like, okay, is this person appropriate for the level? I don't think they're, they're someone that I could put in front of ex-client or white lion, or you might be assessing. I have someone in my team who is close, who's applied for this role, who is close to this level. And they're comparing you to that person, and they're comparing you to how would you be able to lead this person? They're going to be asking, why this person are not me? And so you really need to be able to hold your own, not arrogant, but just like you said, you're great at your job. You've been considered for a reason, kind of sit in that confidence, you know, show a little bit of your personality, have a little bit of a laugh. You don't have to wait. We talked about this before. You don't have to wait to the end to ask your questions, yeah, ask questions throughout. There is a difference, though, and I don't know if you've experienced this, I've had this, I've had two things. I've had the monologue where I'm trying to find the space to interject, and it's like a sales page. That is a little bit of putting, and also where it doesn't feel like a conversation, so find opportunities to ask questions throughout, and that will just relax you as well. Absolutely, and read the room, the virtual room, the in-person room, check for facial expressions from the interviewer. I think just to go a few steps back with the prepping, even in the interview, even if you have to pause and think about a question, I've had candidates say, do you mind if I take a few notes? Yes. Or can I take a sip of water? I have my water here, or you know, set up the scene so that the interviewer is not thrown off by some of those things, but also if you're taking notes, don't just take notes and keep your head down. I've had that where I'm like, okay, I'm still here. Okay, make eye contact. Don't try to take notes about everything that I say, but if you want to get some information and just make sure you jot down on paper, do that, but don't kind of stick to that so much. Have just like very organic, authentic eye contact. That back and forth banter is really nice and pleasant for an interviewer, and I'm sure it will put you at ease if you have some nerves. And she's like, oh, this interviewer is a person too, and so you can just have that free flowing conversation without being too stressed out, but yes, I've had a few scenarios. And a little tip that I give candidates, both when you're interviewing and public speaking, if you got a question that throws you, take a sip of your water. Always have a water bottle, because you, I don't know if you've seen it on like, you know, a presentation at TED Talk, whatever, certain evening interviews you see all the time. And ask the question and they just take a sip of water and they're still calm, they're collecting their thoughts. Oh, yes. So in that moment, take a sip of water, collect your thoughts and don't apologize for it, either. Just be comfortable. That also puts the interviewer at ease, because they're mirroring, like if you're feeling anxious, energy transfers, they can feel your nervous energy, you know, if you're calm, they're calm. And so take a sip of water, think about that, you know, answer the question, ask some clarifying questions and just be at ease. Yeah. Absolutely. All right, let's talk about questions for the interviewer. We talked about this in prep. The questions for the interviewer should be re thoughtful, shouldn't be surface level, shouldn't be things you could find out yourself, they shouldn't be time-fellows. I feel like sometimes a candidate can come to an interview and they're asking questions that you really should know. This is, these are questions that are going to help you make good decisions about the role, help you understand how you're going to be effective, questions that you don't necessarily understand. And there are questions you can ask, the interviewer and questions you can ask your recruiter. And so let's talk about that. So what are some of the things that you want to be asking the interviewer? Yeah, I think first the questions should really come from the conversation that you're having, right? So those questions are organic. I think ahead of time, right, you should have questions prep that dig a little bit deeper into the job description, aspects of the organization, things that you might want to know that are going to help you become prepared and successful for the role. When it comes to your recruiter, I think questions about the process are going to be important. High level questions about, again, culture, the organization are going to be important. What are the personalities of the team members? What's the personality of the hiring manager that you're going to meet with? Who are you meeting with next, right? Getting that name so that you can do some additional research. But really, again, your question should not feel scripted and always have questions. I get candidates all the time that will tell me, you've done a great job of explaining the role. Well, yes, that's my job. And your job is to still ask me questions, probe, dig a bit deeper in what is it that's going to make me successful for this role? What do the first 30, 60, 90 days look like? What are the first 30, 60, 90 day priorities? What's the next five to 10 years road map for the organization? What's the road map for the team? What is everyone's role on the team, and how do they contribute, and how will I fit in? How do you measure success? That's a good one. How do you measure success, and what does that look like in the first few months of the role? Yes, yes. That gives you, one, the answer you're looking for, but that gives you an idea of the culture of the organization and the pace of the organization, pace. Yeah. We should talk about that. Like, some people will say, well, in the first three months, I'd like to see this achieved, and so you know that, actually, this is somewhere where I have to hit the ground running, and some hurry manager will say, you know, in the first three months, I really want you to get to know the organization. I want you to get to know the people, the culture. I think take your cues from that. This is where you can get little nuggets about the culture of the organization. I think sometimes candidates will ask, tell me about the culture. That's very blanket statement. I will follow that up where there's so many places I could go to with that question. What do you want to know about the culture? What aspect of the culture is important to you? So go into, again, during your preparation sessions with yourself, think about what parts of the culture are important to you. Yes. And I think I asked you in our interview, what's your leadership style like? And that's important to me, right? I think the questions that you come up with, what's important to you? And to me, that was important because I wanted to understand what is the dynamic of the organization of the role? What type of pace are we working with, right? The company just merged. Where are we starting at? And on my first day, how am I going to fit into this broader objective that the organization has? And so understanding your leadership style helps me figure out, do I want to work with this person every day? What is that going to look like? I'm going to feel like, what is it going to feel like? And again, there's a difference between that translating into real life, right? From the interview. But I think the interview will still give you some context to what to expect. They're probably going to be really transparent about that. And those are two questions that you can ask the recruiter and also the hiring manager. But asking the hiring manager directly, if they're going to be your direct leader, is really, really key. What's your leadership style? What's the dynamic of the team? Yes. I'm aware that a merger just happened. How does that affect the organization? What are some of the priorities that are coming with that? Is the organization pivoting in a different direction from what I know the industry is sitting with? How does AI fit into everything? What does the technology look like? What are the resources that I can tap into? What does learning and development look like? What does career coaching look like? progression? Not in the way of a promotion, but just overall, what am I going to, what is my experience going to look like as an employee? So those are the questions that you want to ask that definitely should be already in your list of notes to come across to the interviewer. Yeah. And I think also thinking about all the folks you're meeting. Some people might be the hiring manager, but most companies will have an interviewing loop. So what is the role and the relationship of all the folks you're working with? That will also give you an idea of priorities. Because often when you're interviewing, you're interviewing with stakeholders, so you want to understand, what is one thing that I think, especially if you're taking on a leadership role, you're going to be inheriting a team. Sometimes candidates will all tell me about the size of the team. That's great. I want to know, tell me about the capabilities within the team. Tell me about the level of performance within the team. Are you happy with the current team? Are there any skills that we need to be building? Where are the gaps within the team right now? So you go in with an idea of, hey, here are some skills I need to be looking for. If they say no, our talent is really good, I don't need you to do anything. That also gives you an indication of where you are as well, and then understanding the relationship. I think if you're interviewing with a panel and these are your pairs, how do you currently work with my team? Yes. Like, how is that relationship? Where do you think there are opportunities for us to partner better? Where are we partnering really well? That gives you a really good sense. You can also ask the recruiter, and you may want to ask the hiring manager, but I think this is a tough one. What is the reputation of the team right now? What is the brand that the team has? And you can, they may or may not answer, you can sometimes help take cues from their body language as well as to, if they tense up, then you're like, hmm, there might be something there to unpack. Like, if they're really like, no, we have great relationships, our brands are really great, and they tend to want to kind of dive into specifics, we're known for this, this, and this. You can even ask if you feel uncomfortable with that, you can even ask, what's the team known for? Yes. And they will, like, you can take cues from all of that, and we'll talk a little bit later about red flags, but I think as you're asking your questions, body language, turn, all of these things are cues that you can start to think, you know, is this somewhere where I want to work? Okay, that might be an area I need to prove, prove into you, you can take it away, Oscar recruiter, awesome one that works there, all of these things, you know, this is data gathering for you. Absolutely. You to make your decision. And what's nice to about LinkedIn outside of looking at each individual's profile, I would say, look at the content that the company is pushing out on their LinkedIn, right? You can kind of tell from their employer branding team or individuals within the organization, what are they sharing? What are they writing about? What's the commentary? I think you can kind of tell, even if you look at our page on LinkedIn, you'll see, like, we have our very collaborative, people support each other. We're very much in the know about what's happening in the organization. We're posting, we're sharing, we're liking, we're very collaborative in that way. And so that can help you set up in your head, okay, this is the dynamic. And maybe if I have questions about that, I can ask more in the interview. Yeah. And you want to demonstrate your strategic thinking. Yes. So I really like when candidates, I think we talked a little bit about the earnings call. I think listening to that, watching that, whatever format that's in, or any equivalent that you have if the company is not publicly traded, but understanding from that, what are I saw that the company's priorities are x, y and z. How does that fit into your priorities? Where do we fit into that? How do we set our priorities as an organization? And that will give you an indication of the dynamics. It will also give you an indication of, like, your boss, and where their thinking is. Because if they aren't plugged into the priorities, that's something that you want to explore a little bit more. Because I think your boss and your leadership team is going to inform your ability to be successful. And so if you don't have a leader that is working in line with your company's priorities, then, you know, where are you going to fit in within that? So you can take a lot of your cues from those types of questions. Absolutely. Totally agree. Perfect. All right. Uncomfortable question. (laughs) The salary negotiations. Yeah. So who do you talk to about that and how do you approach it? So love to get your thoughts on that. I have thoughts on that. Let me know what your thoughts are. I think that's a conversation for the recruiter. And you have to definitely be careful about how you frame that, right? Obviously, we're all working. We all are working because we care about the job. We have skill sets. We have expertise. We want to contribute. We want to be successful. But we also want to earn an income, right? And support our lives and our families, etc. So that's important. It's not going to throw a recruiter off if you have questions about that. But I would say be careful about how you frame that up. You don't want to always make it seem like that's all you want to know about. You want our invested in the position and what you're working on. But there is definitely a way in which you can ask that question. And typically, a good recruiter will frame that up for you already. I'll give you a sense of where the job sits within kind of their range of salary offerings. And so you want to be keen about that. I would say also when they give you that range, really sit with that. Is that a range that you can work with? Because what you don't want to have, and I've had this many times in the recruitment process, is folks that say, yep, I'm on board. And then as they're going through the process, maybe they don't actually think they're going to get the job or the offer. And then they do, and then that salary point that they are extended in the offer doesn't actually work for them. And now we're dancing with a number that is way outside of the scope of what we've already set forth. And so I think that's going to be critical to really sit with, does this actually work for me? And also consider all of the things that are coming with that salary package. Do you get a bonus? What are some of the other benefits that might be important to you comprehensively that help you make that decision? Sometimes it's not just about that one number. Also what does growth look like in the role and also that salary band, right? If you expect to be in a role for some time, then think about what the next layer is going to look like for you and how that accurately fits into what your salary and compensation will look like comprehensively. Yeah. And don't feel obligated to answer that question right away. Right away. Absolutely. It's okay to say, you know, let me think about that. Think about that. There are several components that make up my current package. Let me go away and think about that. I do want to ask you what is your range? Right. And then they will probably, likely give you an indication. I think what's great now is across a number of states, there's legislation that requires you to kind of talk about your ranges. But those ranges are quite broad and it doesn't require them to include everything. And so you want to get a good indication of that. I will say as well, you're in a stronger position when you do your research. Yes. If you have someone that works in the industry, someone that works in HR, someone that works in recruiting, an executive search firm, a recruitment firm that you work with, because they have a broad spread. Every company has their own range. But if you get data from multiple sources, that is also helpful, helpful for you to kind of understand what your expectations are. Not necessarily for you to share that with the company. Sometimes I'll push you and certainly as you progress more and more in the process, they'll want to know, but I would encourage you to ask them, like, what is your range? What are the components that make up your salary and understand what's on the table? And then also, you know, I would recommend saying one of the things that's important to me is I want to feel where I am right now. I'm, you know, well compensated. I am a high reformer, I'm recognized for that. And so I want to make sure I'm coming in in an equitable place, right? And so think about that, what that means within the context of your organization, because you want to make sure that, you know, they are being thoughtful about it and they're, you're not coming in at the bottom end of the range. A lot of companies, though, won't, depends on where you, what industry you're in and where you are and if they reach out to you versus you reach out to them, there are all of those things to be considered, but be thoughtful about that and have an idea of kind of what your expectations are, honestly, with yourself and you're non-negotiable. They might throw out a number, I don't know if you guys have a poker face, I don't have a very good poker face, but try to. They throw out a number, do not commit on the spot, right? Happy with that. If I go away, do some research and you're happy with that and to your point, you come back and it's a problem. Just, you know, listen and say, you know, let me go away, run some numbers, talk to my family, and circle back. That's a big deal. Yeah, and I think within that research, you know, industries and titles vary, right? You might be working at an agency and now going in-house or you might be in-house and going to an agency and so you have to put that into perspective. And so within your research, those things are going to vary. Those are going to vary. I know folks who have the title as manager, but they're not managing people. And so that people management piece does add a different layer of value to your compensation. You definitely have to know yourself, know your worth and know your value and what you bring to the table. And I think be true to yourself about that because I think sometimes folks get over zealous with, well, I do this and I've done that and I've contributed that. But in the context of the job that you're interviewing for, does that make sense? Are you moving from state to state? Are you relocating, you know, the economy in one state might be different from the other, right? Is the industry or the job that you're interviewing for? Is it a lucrative business? In the next five to ten years, is this business going to be growing or is it going to stay status quo? And so those are the things that you have to add to your inventory of what is it that I should be compensated for in this job. Is it a global job? Are you going to be traveling? Do you have to interact with clients and different stakeholders at different levels? Are you externally facing? Are you back and facing? Does it have a commission component? You know, those are the things that I think are helpful. And also one of the things that you need to ask your recruiter to is what is the trajectory in this job look like, right? Some roles are very specific, you know, in five years or based on these markers or based on these accomplishments, we know that you'll be set up for X, Y, and Z promotion or this is the next level in the job. So get that clarity because again, that'll help you figure out how much you're supposed to be compensated and if you want to pursue the position. Yeah. And also try to understand maybe from the recruiter not from the hiring manager, higher promotion cycles or salary increase cycles, is that something that they do? What are merit increases? Right. Is that something they do? Are there other performance components? That are guaranteed components and what are performance based components. Those are all the things that you want to be thinking about. Also consider what's happening in the global economy, right? I think that is a huge piece of it. You don't want to push the envelope too much with compensation when industries are falling apart or things are happening, you know what I mean. And so I think sometimes, because that's also going to come across as the interviewer that you're talking about. Yeah, you're not clear on what's going on, you're just not present. And so I think that's important. And depending on what level you're at or what level you're pursuing, that's going to be critical to how you show up in that interview. Absolutely. There's so many things that you really have to factor into that decision, but you know, you can always go away and think about that and come back, you don't have to answer that on the spot. Unless it's completely out of range, right? If it's like, if you're just like a number and it's not even like, I don't waste the recruiter stuff. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, if it's so far off, then, yeah, and I think with the transparency, also you see, you have to publish that in most states now. Yes. So have a look. And if the range is out of scope, I think something else that we didn't talk about, that probably we should look at as well, is levels mean different things in different organizations. If you're coming from a 100 person organization where you were vice president of X function, and you're moving to an organization that is 40,000 people and you are, you know, vice president of X across five functions, 20 countries, all the level of complexities. There are new skills you're going to have to learn that you don't necessarily have right now. And vice versa. So when you're thinking about the role, think about it in its entirety and not just on the title because titles are different or yeah, absolutely. And also think about that in consideration when you're looking at the job, right? Sometimes it's not just a title. It's the actual scope of the role. The scope of the role. Before I came to this role, I was vice president at the Emma Bowen Foundation, right? But that's a non-profit, smaller shop versus coming over as director, and I have a team of seven, a global team. And so the work that I'm doing is different, right? I'm focusing on mid to senior level talent. It's more public facing. There's a lot more at stake, more visibility, dealing with multiple stakeholders. I was dealing with a lot of stakeholders in my previous role as well, but it's a difference. Multilayered. Multilayered. And so I think that helped me to consider title, but also job scope, compensation, et cetera, right? The things that are different. Yeah. And also you bring up a really good point. Why do you want the job? Yeah. Think about that question as well. Be honest with yourself as well. Sometimes we speak to candidates and they are in a situation where they're unhappy. And sometimes we're reaching out to the candidates and they're, you know, they are being convinced throughout the process. But I think that is a conversation you should have with yourself. Why do I actually want this role? There are the growth opportunities within this role. What am I excited about? Because if you're only desperate to have a job and get out of a situation, that shows. Oh, yeah. And also you put yourself in a compromising position. So be thoughtful about the opportunity and be clear on what you want. And so that feeds into also when you ask the question about what are your errors of development? Where do you see the opportunity for yourself? Be clear to speak to, I'm excited about this role because in my role, I've done X, Y and Z. This role offers me an opportunity to apply that in a different way and gain XYZ scale, making sure that you have an answer or you're including in the scope of your answer why you're still qualified for the job and why you're going to be competent. But think about that. I think, you know, we've halved on that or I have halved on a lot about preparation. But a lot of it really is in the preparation and reflecting and sitting with yourself and absolutely. Thinking the right questions and understanding your role and understanding the value that you add and understanding what gives you energy. Oh, yes. Like what parts of the culture are important to you? Because the role itself is great, but the things that you feel every day are the culture. What is it like to work there? What are my colleagues like? How are decisions made? Am I empowered or am I going to be micromanaged? Is there a sense of autonomy in the energy? To get that from all the folks that you interview with, I think one thing you can do is when you ask the culture question, ask everyone that you interview with. Absolutely. What are the elements of the culture that you enjoy? What keeps you here? Why, if they're newer? Why did you accept this job? I saw you worked at XYZ. What's different about this organization and also that forms a connection with the interviewer as well. Say, you know, get a perspective from them and if it's consistent, then you know, green flag, if it's inconsistent, you know, you might want to investigate it out of it more. Yeah, dig a little bit deeper. Yeah. What are some other red flags? Hmm. I mean, they're a ton from the interviewer side. From the candidate side and from the interviewer side as well. So as a candidate, you've been interviewed, you're going through the process. You've met four or five people. You're figuring out whether you want this job. What are some of the red flags you might want to think about as you're going through the process that you might want to dig a little bit deeper into? Yeah, I think we talked about candidates ghosting, but the organization might ghost you as well, right? You might not hear from them. You might not know where you sit in the process. And I think where we mentioned earlier to that point is really talking to the recruiter building that relationship with the recruiter where you can check in with them to say, I know we talked about the process maybe running for two weeks. Maybe we interviewed before the holiday season and so more time is going to be embedded in this. However, it's been over that time, right? And I think if you all agree on this is going to take up this amount of time and now we're outside of that window, it's okay to follow up, but if the company completely ghosts you and you don't know where you sit, I would say reconsider that organization and it might not be from an intentional standpoint. There just might be a lot going on there that I don't think maybe you want to be a part of, right? So I think that's definitely important. If the interviewer recruiter, hiring manager, key stakeholders, anyone you talk to cannot explain what they do, right? And can't have a point of view or perspective or clearly convey what their role is and how they fit into the organization, that's a huge red flag for me. Like I want to know that you have some understanding of what you do because if you don't, then who else doesn't know what they do around here? And also, if you have a direct impact on my success in the organization, I need for you to know what you're actually doing. Yeah. And then also what is the impact the function is having on the organization? Because especially in this economy, things are changing with companies all the time. You want to know that the role you're moving into is high value for the company. Are you moving into a function where your role is going to be adding value, how is your function being perceived, like get little nuggets of that? And if you are getting insights throughout the interview that, you know, one, there's not clarity on that. The interviewers don't necessarily know there is a little bit of uncertainty that's something that you should probably think a little bit more deeply about. If they have no clarity on what their priorities are, where they give you a very vague generic high level answer on what are the priorities of the organization? What are their priorities as a leader over the next couple of months? You know, if you ask why has this role come about and they give you a very service answer, it's a newly role that we've created and they can't give you any more insight into. We've created this role because we're seeing growth in X area of the business or, you know, you want depth, I think. Yes. Lack of depth is a red flag. It is a huge, huge red flag. I think also, and this probably seems very simple, but if the person you're interviewing are the people you've interviewed with aren't pleasant. If you can't feel that they're pleasant people, then that's a huge red flag for me. I have a lot of energy. I'm extroverted. And so I want to know that, yes, we have a business at hand. We have goals and we're getting to something, but is this culture palatable for me? And are these people pleasant or is everybody overwhelmed and running around and stressed out? I don't want to be a part of that stress. You know what I mean? I think just being pleasant, also people who have an investment in the recruitment process and the candidate experience is huge. So if from the onset you feel anything off about your interactions with the scheduling coordinator, if you're in person and as you enter the door, the energy in the building doesn't feel right, I think that is a huge red flag. If the interviewer is not conscious of your time as well, right, they're super black, yes. And they're rushing through the questions or they're not paying attention. They're not paying attention or they're just giving you fast answers, then that's a red flag for me. And again, if you're desperate to get out of your own situation, the grass is not always greener. So these are things that you should be taking into account, because trust me, they will show up again when you're on the job. And also for me, a huge red flag is not having a diverse interviewing panellist. If a diverse in terms of what the panellists look like, but they're worth thinking, they're worth operating their professional background style, all of those things are really important. And if everyone kind of thinks in the same way, shows up in the same way, that gives me questions around innovation. Yeah. Is everyone kind of cookie cutter in the organization? That makes me think, how does your product, what's the output that you're putting out? How open are you going to be to a different perspective? And so those are things that are, you know, huge red flags for me. Totally. And I think to even emphasize on that, and because this is the work that I do, right? I think diversity is so important, representation is so important. And even to our listeners who are on the interviewing side, be thoughtful about that, right? Be thoughtful about who you're including in the process, be thoughtful about the candidate that you're interviewing. And as a candidate, take that into consideration, right? What does the organization look like? And can I feel comfortable being in this environment? And maybe certain things that you might witness or observe are deal breakers for you. And I think you have to assess that within yourself. Like, what are those things that are important to you? What are your deal breakers? And so for me, that is a big red flag. If there is no diversity of perspective, but also representation, I'm out. Yeah. 100%. It is very, very telling because also how will you thrive in that organization? You know, you don't want to be. And sometimes organizations are at different paths on their diversity journey. And it's fine to be at the start of your journey, building diversity. But I think also transparency about that is important. I would like an interviewer that saying, you know, we are trying to work on a level of inclusion here. And so we've implemented this or changed that process or we're hiring. I think a good indication is the leadership team. Yes. If you have a diverse leadership team, that gives you a good indication that folks within the organization are going to be able to thrive because belonging is such a big deal. You don't want to be the only person that's being hired, you know, and it feels a little bit too canistic. Absolutely. And so those are things that you want to investigate and ask them. I would ask, but what is your perspective, I'm, you know, it's going to be no surprise to then interviewer. You can see what I look like. I do want to understand, like, you know, what does inclusion look like? How do you guys think about that? What is the path for success here and sometimes if you get a diverse interviewer, ask them the question. Yeah. Yeah. I get that question all the time. Me too. Diversity candidates always ask me, what's your experience? Yeah. Exactly. You know, and they want to know. They want to authentically know, why have you been in the industry for so long? What is it about it? You know, when you're in meetings, are the only one or do you feel like you have a network or community of individuals that are like minded and also look like you that you can look towards? And I've been really lucky in my career to have those representatives, not only that look like me, but think like me as well and that I kind of build some camaraderie with along the way because you want to be able to be in an environment that you enjoy in an industry that you enjoy in a role that you enjoy and so that is critical. You know, and a part of that research and the questions, ask if they have BRGs or ERGs. Look at the company and see what organizations are they affiliated with, what conferences are they sponsoring that might be niche diversity related organizations that can help you get a perspective on like you said that they might not be where exactly they want to be on the diversity spectrum, but they're getting to it and there's a concerted effort around it. All right. Key takeaways. Yes. We talked about a lot today. What are kind of the three things that you want our audience to leave thinking about? Preparation is key. Know your audience and have situational awareness when it comes to the interview, doing your research and figuring out what questions you're going to ask the interviewer. Be positive, be confident and be pleasant about the whole experience. It's a lot, you know, preparing for an interview, having an interview, searching for a job can be daunting, it can be stressful, it can be disappointing at times, but I think if you try your best to be optimistic about the process and where you are, you'll have a good experience overall. Yeah. Absolutely. And be comfortable? Yes. Be yourself. Be authentically yourself. You know, know that like you said, they selected you for a reason. You have the skills and experience. You are worthy of the opportunity, so go in there with that underlying confidence and wear something that you're comfortable in, wear something that makes you feel good. Listen to some great music before you go in or whatever you do when you're preparing for an interview. You know, put yourself in the right head space and like you said, prepare, prepare, prepare. And spend some time doing a lot of reflection and you feel good. Yeah. Yeah, because I think once you feel good, you feel confident, you'll perform really well. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Well, this has been wonderful. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us again. I've thoroughly enjoyed this. Same for our audience have. Same, same, same. I'll drag you back soon. Okay, okay. Thanks guys. Take the invitation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.