Account Management Team Charter: Why Your Framework Keeps Failing and How to Fix It | EP91

[MUSIC] If you're an account manager, you already know the truth. You're the one keeping the business running. You own the client relationships, drive the revenue, and solve tough problems. But you also know that most companies don't give account managers the playbook or the recognition they deserve. That's what you'll learn here on account management secrets. The strategies, insights, and edge you need to win. I'm Alex Raymond, and after working with thousands of account managers, I know it separates the best from the rest. This podcast is where we talk about all the stuff no one teaches you. How to handle tough client conversations, drive renewals and upsells, and prove your value every single day. No fluff, no outdated sales tactics, just practical strategies you can use right now to grow your accounts and accelerate your career. Let's get started. Hey everybody, welcome back to account management secrets. I'm here with Jennifer Pinter, say hi Jen. >> Hi everyone. >> The purpose of today is I wanted to take a moment and recap with Jennifer, talk about the brand new program that we just finished inside of the Amplify community. That program was building the growth department. Building the growth department was a three session program that we did. There was something like what 25, 30 people who joined the program. It was all about how to get into the very specifics of bringing a growth department to life. If you're trying to get more predictability, you're trying to get more consistency. You're trying to iron out some of the wrinkles in how you're working. This was the way to do it. Super fun program to be running with everybody. And since Jen, you were my co-host for it, I wanted to check in with you and get your feedback and reactions and see what you learned and see if you had any surprises from the session. So what do you think? >> Yeah, it was fun. I really enjoyed the session. And I think one of the things that I guess one of the things that really surprised me about it was even though we had such a diverse group of account management leaders across industry verticals and company sizes and even experience levels, they're all struggling with the same things. >> That they are. >> And the things that they're struggling with. I think we're not surprising in some ways, but there were a few surprises. >> Well, so, so, let me know about the group. So this was a program for the Amplify community. And if I think back to who joined us, we had a very diverse and interesting group. Everything from a senior account manager at a public company that does about $300 million in revenue. We had a VP level person at an educational software company. We had both the CRO and the VP of customer success from a GovTech company that were there. We had folks from marketing agencies, insurance companies, all sorts of stuff. So very, very different backgrounds. And I think this is one of the cool things about Amplify what we've been doing is, you know, the challenges are roughly the same, no matter what industry you're in and what size of company you're in. And so there's a common language here. The common language is how do we do right by our customers? How do we help our companies to be really successful? Was it take to put all that stuff in place? And we're trying to help people along the way. So what were the surprises for you? >> Well, a lot of people have, this shouldn't surprise me, but a lot of people have documentation around what the role should look like. What the engagement cadence should look like. Some people call it a "racie matrix," some people call it, you know, like an operating guide. We were calling it, obviously, very different than a "racie matrix" is a charter, right? And some of our cohort members were saying, yeah, we have some documentation. We spend a lot of time building it and then it just nobody, we kind of ignore it. It's not operationalized. And that was kind of surprising to hear that that is so prolific and maybe I shouldn't be surprised. >> Well, yeah, we did hear. So especially during session one, which was on clarity. And in session one, you know, the first part of that was, do we all understand where we're going, what the goal is, who does what, how we measure success? That's what goes into clarity. And the artifact that we created and walked everybody through was this essentially a team charter or a function charter for your account management or customer's success team. And it sounds very basic. It sounds like this should be fundamental homework and already done. And you know, what I took away from that was a lot of people have some of this stuff in place. They've done some. Several people, as you said, were talking about "racies." So I don't even remember what RACI, right? Responsible, something something informed. >> Responsible, accountable, consulted, informed. >> There you go. And so the idea is, you know, who does what and do we have a general understanding of that? So some people have done that, which is great. It's a good first step. But, and this is a big but, the things that people had done were old. They were gathering dust. And so they were like, yeah, we did a RACI, like, you know, in 2022 or whatever. And we barely updated it or looked at it since. And that, I think, is a big issue for people because businesses are dynamic. They're changing. And so if you're not looking at this stuff at least every year, for example, or on a charter, then you're not getting any value out of it at all. >> Yes, 100%. [LAUGH] >> It's like account plans when you build them at the beginning of the year and then just leave them to die in a PowerPoint. You know, they're not, they're not helpful then. >> Yeah, no, indeed, indeed. And, you know, so the first part here was, you know, simply do we all understand, you know, who does what? And a couple of interesting things. So we basically said when we did clarity, we had some number of questions that we were asking people. But the main idea is, do we all know what our job is? Do we all know what the role of the account management team is? And of course, everyone's got their own definitions and they're going off on tangents. And so we're trying to keep people coming back, really? What's our job? Our job is to help our company grow, help our company increase in value, right? Increase the value of the company overall. And a lot of people can like see the dominoes start to drop when we talk in that way. And what I noticed then happening, and this is kind of an issue for us in general, a big thing that we've been working on, is then they say, yeah, I see how my job is to help the company grow and succeed. Nobody else in my company understands that that's what I do. And part of the work of creating this charter is to crystallize your thoughts yourself. So you've got it, you understand it, you know how something you can take around to other parts of the company and share. And evangelize your role and talk about all the stuff that you're doing and hopefully build some shared understanding of what it is that you're doing and accomplishing. So I thought that dichotomy was pretty interesting. What did you think about that? Yeah, I mean, I think that that's the whole reason this program was so important and valuable, right? I mean, we're really building on the gap between the books that you wrote, building the growth department, right? And how do you actually run and operationalize this inside a real company? Because I think, you know, all of these people are obviously very smart leaders in their space. And they're looking to improve and help grow their company and help grow their teams. And having the information and actually acting on it and implementing it within your organization is where a lot of people fall through the cracks. And I can't blame them, right? They have a day job. And a lot of times there are things coming up that are distractions. And we talk about this a lot in Amplify, right? It's like, how do you prioritize focusing on the business and not being in step in the weeds of the business of the fires every day? And that's where that clarity commitment cadence is super important. And that's what we built out through these three, three programs. So it's not surprising that people get part of the way there. And then not quite all the way there. One thing that I noticed and I know this is going to be something that's definitely alive for you, Jen, based on the work that you've done in the past. You know, when we started to get into the idea of when we started to talk about clarity and what the roles are, several people in, you know, mainly I'm thinking about folks in the services industries who are with us and Amplify, but several of them started saying, you know, we've got this issue where we are straddling account management and project management. So we had that come. up a couple of times where people are basically like, yeah, we're, you know, maybe my job title says account management, but I'm also wrangling the ins and outs of running projects. And, you know, we know that this has been an issue because if you combine them together, then maybe you're losing focus or you're, you know, you're not putting all the energy into one of these roles. It also doesn't really help in terms of how the executive team sees you and understands what it is that you do. What do you think is a way for us to get around that? Like, what's your reaction to this situation? Yeah, I think it's really important to have intense focus. I think sometimes people fall into the trap of being helpful, right? And we're just trying to do it all. And then things start falling through the cracks. And what I know from working with leaders in the space over the last, you know, six years is that if you're not measuring your activities and speaking to your executive leadership team about what your team is doing and elevating the focus on the revenue portion, you're never going to get the resources that you need. And when that came up a lot in this three session series, it's like, how do you, how do you actually commit to the work that needs to be done for your team? And then how do you get that visibility so that you can get the resources? So what I see is people being really helpful in there trying to make sure everything's getting done. But then they're actually taking on work that doesn't belong in their role instead of like mapping out, hey, this is what this should look like. And if we do it this way, here's the numbers to prove it, right? Here's how this impacts the PNL. This is how it impacts our retention and our growth numbers, our NRR. And when you have those financial metrics to back what you're saying and where you're going, then you get the resources that you need and you stop doing multiple roles, hopefully. Well, I mean, I know for a fact a lot of people who listen to this podcast are finding themselves doing lots of different stuff. And you know, what we want to encourage you to do is focus do the account management work, right? That's the priority. That's really where your where your bread gets buttered. And you know, the PM stuff needs to be in a professional service organization or you know, other people who are really good at this stuff. And the more that you can separate that out and focus more on what you're really good at, then you're going to get better results. Your customers going to get better results. Everybody's going to be, everyone's going to be happier because of that. So session one on the on the clarity commitment or cadence piece. So session one was was clarity. And I like that one, even though, you know, it feels like, you know, something we should already have been doing, like writing this charter. The point of writing it down is you now have something you can refer back to. You can onboard people with this document. You can share it internally. You can stick it up on the wall. You can make it something that people reference and understand. And it allows you to shape the narrative. It allows you to scope like people's vocabulary, you know, and talk about, keep growing those surprises, for example, which is a core ten in of it. And here's how we help our company win and really making everyone understand how they fit into the bigger picture. So I like that. People people started working on these, you know, right away we gave a template for that. And so I was glad to see that to see that part come to life. Then when we got to session two session two was about commitments. And I used the words as I talked about in the in our previous episode, the preview before we before we did the sessions. You know, I used commitment as a way of saying, these are the things that we agree to do as a team. So that's what I mean when I say commitment. And what you and I did was we talked through three at the end of the day. I think there's only three of these that really make a difference that really matter. You can come up with different ones if you want to. But I think it's these three. I think it's segmentation, account plans for the critical accounts, not for everybody. And then getting really good at at risk management. And so we walked we walked through those. We, you know, we spent more time on on risk register than on the other ones. But, you know, the idea was still like to build an idea of what is it that we're working on together? What did you think about about that approach to commitments? And what did you think about what we learned from from the participants? Yeah, I think if if there's any three that you're going to focus on, those three are the top most important, right? In order to avoid surprises and keep and grow your customers, you need to have account plans, you need to have a risk register and segmenting so that you know that you're focusing on the right accounts and you're paying attention to the right accounts is really important. And I think having a process around that and a, and a rhythm of when you're doing it is critical. One of the things I noticed there was, was that two people on the beginning of this, of this call when we started with with the commitments part told us stories about customers that there's churning in recent, you know, in in the recent periods. So like not that long ago in the short term. And so we use that as a kickoff to talk in more detail about the risk register because if you have a customer that churns, it sucks, right? It's like a dagger in the heart. It's never good. Like it never feels good. Even if it's a small customer, always feel terrible. So customer churn and we had several people talk about what what had gone on there. And you know, essentially was we didn't have the right reads, we didn't have the right information. You know, in either case was it, we didn't have a good relationship because they had relationships there, but the relationships weren't necessarily driving value and they weren't doing the discovery, the relentless curiosity type of type of work. So I thought that was really interesting. I mean, not because people lose customers, these things happen. But rather because, you know, our members is they're putting up their hands saying, here's what's been going on for me, right? So we can all understand and empathize and and try to figure out how to not make this happen in the future and then say, you know, what can we do to prevent this? What are the bigger picture items that we can that we can work on? And so I like that as a launch point for getting into the getting into the risk registry, which, you know, I can say that so I blew in the face. I think this is this one of the most important things that you got to be doing as an account manager is keeping a very, very close eye on that. Yeah, I one of our members had, as we started getting into that risk register exercise, Alex, you might remember he was the one that said about losing those those customers and they don't have a risk register in in place at their organization and they went back and did a retrospective, okay, what happened? Why do we lose this customer? What what were the signs that we missed? And sure enough, there were leading indicators of lack of engagement and commitment and product usage usage was dropping. There were several factors that they missed that we we always recommend people track in their risk register. And so as we were going through that exercise, he said, oh, if I had had this in place, we would have caught those morning signs, right? It doesn't mean you're always going to save the customer, but if you know something's going on and you can course correct early enough or at least notify executive leadership of like, hey, we noticed there's a problem. This is what we're doing to solve it. That's going to help CYA for you as a leader of the account management team, right? Because what we want to do is avoid that ugly surprise on a Friday of a client churning and we had no idea it was coming. I think definitely the most useful part of this session on risk management was when we categorized types of risk. And the reason is it's hard to it's hard just to go in and be like, where do I start? If someone tells you develop a risk management process or start a risk register, it's like, okay, you know, how? What do I do? And so what you and I did was we broke out 10 different types of risks, value realization, relationships, product, pricing, commercial, like all this stuff, external factors, lots of different ones. And the helpful part about doing that is now I can start to categorize in my brain. Like, okay, I can see what's what. And you know, you also made a very good point on the call, which was, don't do open fields for this, right? This is a pick list. This is not, you don't get to, you don't get to editorialize or improvise your way through this. You've got to choose, you know, what's going on. And the reason that that matters is because now you're, you're focusing on exactly what's happening. So you're having to choose, right? If I have this list, which one is the thing, the thing. And then secondly, you can then report on it a lot easier. And I like that because if you think about this at a corporate level, you know, if you have a lot of issues in the same area, like, you know, pricing, for example, or customer value or something, you want to be able to bubble all that up and say, look, we've got major issues because of this. Let's now go form a task force to solve it or to try to address it, you know, kind of thing. So I like, I really like that approach. What else goes into your risk management model? there. We created a whole template for people. Give us a little preview for the people who are going to join. Yeah, I mean, you obviously need an owner who's in charge internally, who's owning it on the client side, who's your contact or stakeholder there. You know, when was this first identified and what's the mitigation plan? So kind of trying to add a time-bound commitment to resolution in there. Revenue at risk is really helpful, especially if it's a really large client and you have multiple business lines and contracts with them identifying which ones at risk. And like, like you said, Alex, my biggest advice when it comes to this is making sure that it's not the wild west with filling out the data. Like, we really want to be able to identify trends across the portfolio. At the end of the year, can we say, hey, we lost the most business due to this risk type? And then as an organization, make better business decisions. So, yeah, you know, category, don't make it overly complicated. Is it hot, high, medium, low? What's the severity, right? Like, don't, don't try to add all these different fields. Make it easy to understand and make it easy to update. We know that everybody has a million things going on and CRM hygiene is not the best, so don't over-complicate it. Yeah, and the point is to bring this to everyone else's awareness. And so, you know, we didn't just make this up either. You know, in the program itself, we drew on some of the examples from, from actually guests on this podcast. People like Josh Abdullah from Asana, who does this at extraordinary scale. He's got like 170,000 customers or something like that, 8,000 of which are enterprise. So, he's got to do this with lots, lots of companies. And we talked about what he's been doing. We talked about what we've learned from Michael Rapp at Intel appear with the Get to Green Meas. And they've got a couple thousand customers in their base as well. We talked about what Lisa Hanaker has been doing at Actable and how she approaches that. We talked a little bit about Jim Richmond at SmartLing and the things we've learned from him as well. So, you know, I think the point here is if serious people like the four I just mentioned are doing this and have a lot of, and have a lot at stake and are really committed to a risk management process, you should be too. Like, you know, there's no reason not to do it. If it works for them, chance are it's gonna work for you. So, I really like the risk management piece. It also, I think that if you're a post-sale leader, account management, customer success, and you're thinking, you know, you're putting on this hat, it's a risk management hat. People perceive you differently because you're asking different questions, you're showing up with other types of ideas. You're very clearly in the keep-grow no surprises world. Inso doing, you are showing yourself to be a more serious leader and someone who's deeply connected to the revenue of the company. And I think that matters. I think that matters now more than ever because, you know, it's weird out there and there's a lot of things changing, a lot of questions being asked. So, that's why I really want to encourage everyone to be focusing on this. What about the account planning piece, which was one of the other one, another one of the commitments and the account segmentation, that was another one of the commitments. What did you think about those? What are your tips and memories from those parts? The mistake that we see a lot and it came up in this series that we did is that leaders go, we want account plans for every account instead of focusing on the top 20. And I mean, that's a sure way to like just overload everybody and make sure nothing great gets done because if you are not doing a account plans and it's not a practice that you have today, going and saying let's do a account plan for 120 accounts is not going to be effective. So, you know, focusing, don't mandate everybody having done by a specific deadline. You know, make sure that they do them for the top 20% is our guideline and then build on that, right? So, if you have a portfolio of five or 10 accounts, focus on the first couple most important accounts, right? And then build on that. I think that that kind of stood out because we heard a couple horror stories of people trying to like mandate account plans across the board. And then the other thing that really stuck with me is something that we preach a lot, Alex is like the account plan does not just live in a document. It is a conversation. It is a strategic guide to how we're growing the account. And this is where I see a lot of people fall short in executing account planning strategies. It's like go create this, you know, spreadsheet or this account plan in your CRM. And then there's no discussion with the executive team internally or with the client to validate that account plan. And so the focus on communicating that strategy internally and externally was really important. And we got into that into cadence. But those stuck out to me. Yeah, no, for sure, for sure, you've got to have a feedback loop associated with these account plans. Otherwise, everyone's like, why am I doing this? Why bother? Why am I spending all this time on this stuff? I think you're exactly right on the account planning. The thing I'll say on the third part, segmentation is it's a big lift. It's a big exercise. And almost universally, everyone on the call agreed that segmenting by revenue is not the right way. Like just revenue. You've got to have a much more nuanced view of the customer. You've got to look at their potential for growth. Are they a good fit? Do they have a partnership mindset? And Joanna Hagleberger, for example, who's been on this show before and is a major inspiration for my book, The Growth Department, she was talking about just revenue is not the right way to be doing it. You've got to be thinking about how to grow where the segments are that are going to grow the most. And she told this story about having two different insurance company customers, both were equally large, like very big, significant companies. One had a growth mentality and had a partnership mindset and wound up expanding 200x with them. The other one just kind of ticked along because they had a different mindset. And so I thought it was really, really cool to learn from the members who were there how they do it and how they think about it. And for me, I'll say it's reframed how I think about segmentation. I used to think of it as a kind of more of a ticked the box exercise, just something you did. And now I've really started to appreciate how important and integral it is to your overall strategy because when you do the segmentation process is at the end of the day, it's a resource allocation thing. So you're saying, what level of service should these customers be receiving, who's a bronze silver gold or whatever, and how am I going to segment the portfolio is that the team has and who's going to do what. So it's really winds up being fundamental to your overall strategy. So that's why it's one of the commitments in that commitment. So I really enjoyed that conversation because I got to learn more about how people are thinking about that, which is fun. Yeah, for sure. And I think it was Christy from Tailwind that was talking about implementing the account plans. I think last year after going through the Amplify account management or yeah, account planning boot camp and how much that transformed her team and how they're focusing or refocusing on growing those accounts. And so it was really fun to hear from people who have already been through some of that programming and started implementing the account planning and segmentation internally. And long behold, it works. These things work. It does work. And then the third. So the third session we did was then one on on cadence. And cadence is interesting for me because it's the glue that holds everything together. And it's kind of like the engine that everything runs on. It runs all the stuff that we're talking about. And it turns out it's where a lot of people get stuck because cadence at the end of the day is a set of meetings. That's what it is. It's a bunch of meetings. In this case, it's seven meetings. And we broke down the ones that happened weekly, monthly, quarterly, and annually. But it's basically it's a bunch of meetings. And so people naturally have this instinct that's like, oh, I don't want to have to do another meeting. I don't want to put another recurring meeting on the schedule. So there's a little bit of hesitation around this. But guess what? If you're doing the three commitments and you want to make a big impact for your company and you want to make progress, then you're in the change management business. And if you're in the change management business, you got to keep it on people's minds. And there's no better way to do that than through meetings and continuing to talk about this stuff. And so I started to appreciate how these meetings and the rhythm or cadence of these meetings winds up being a real force behind this change and this transformation. So I like that. I like doing it. It was fun to work with you and come up with the seven meetings and decide what they are. So, you know, it's everything from like, you know, weekly one on ones, okay, fine, great, wonderful to portfolio reviews, to executive briefings, and then segmentations, all about just stuff in there. Which ones, which one or ones did you think are most impactful? Well, I think the one that most people skip or don't do well or maybe are scared to do is the executive briefing. And I think that is the one that is the most impactful for you as a leader of the team, managing an account management team to do. Because when you do that and you do it well and you're reporting what your team is working on and you're reporting your metrics and you're keeping the surprises at bay, good spices or bad surprises, then you're getting visibility. And the people that we've worked with over the years that have done that really well, we've seen them get promoted, we've seen them move up through the ranks of leadership. And you cannot get resources and get that level of attention if you're not doing those executive briefings. Yeah, totally, that was one that you know, it had a lot of people in the meeting like trying to hide under their desks because they were admitting essentially admitting that they don't do these or they don't do them as well as they could be. And you know, fair enough, like we're all busy, everyone's got a million things going on and at the same time, making sure that you're taking the time to brief your executive team on all the great work that your team is doing. It's a part of the job like you've got to do this and as you do it, you are going to learn more about how the executive team thinks and talks. You're going to have more access to resources. You're going to be viewed as someone who's more strategic. So I agree with you. I think that one. It's the non obvious one. Like people don't necessarily remember, I got to do this. We put it, we put it quarterly. So every 90 days get 60 to 90 minutes on your executive teams calendar and go in there and share your one pages. Because you know, don't I don't share too much information. That's not the point. Just get stick with the basics, but show people the worth. You know, like make it visible, make people aware of what you're doing. That is a that's a really, really great thing to do. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And I think the reason that this session got such a high response or like it was so impactful for the team is because it really is like the framework, if you will, that are. It's what makes the frameworks you're putting into place actually happen. Because without them, you know, we've I've I've talked to account managers before they're like, yeah, my boss says, you know, we they want to count plans on all these accounts, but then they don't care to look at them. And then we never talk about them and we never review them as a team. And it feels like it's just this box ticking exercise when the leadership team doesn't care about the account plans, then no one's going to do them. So these meetings, Cal plan reviews, executive briefings, they're what help keep these frameworks alive and going and working because when we don't talk about them, we don't review them. They just die. Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, this is this is the thing that keeps all they keep still going. And so the advice here is, you know, don't resist. Like don't freeze up and think I don't want any more meetings out of your existing ones and see what you can go or what you can combine here, but do this. And you know, if you do these and you do them well and you stay consistent, you're going to have better results because you're going to build the habits. You're going to have shared vocabulary, the expectations are going to be very clear for who's doing what and and you're going to get the right attendance at these meetings as well, which is also critical. So, you know, it's funny. I thought that this was also the most engaged. I could definitely the one that got everybody talking and thinking, you know, what am I doing today and not doing and where is the opportunities. And so I thought that was, I thought that was what it was surprising, you know, for me, because I thought, I thought, you know, all of my, all of my smart, all of my smart account management stuff is going into the commitments. And that's going to be the really important one. Yeah, that's great was the feedback. Everyone's like, yeah, that's okay. But we really want to see how to bring this to life, which is what we did here in the in the cadence part. I was just thinking about how, you know, people get started on projects like this and they're like, oh, we're going to transform how we're doing account management. We're going to do this new process and they get going. They get steam. And then this comes up and they let it fall through the cracks. So what I loved about cadence about this session, Alex is that we gave people a guideline of when it has to happen, no excuses, who has to be there. What should be included in the meeting because, you know, a lot of people aren't sure like what do we, what should we be talking about. It's like a operating system for your meeting to make it the most efficient and effective. And there's, there's no questions about what we should be doing. Well, that's a good point. And so I think it's worth sharing with everyone here like what the leave behinds were. So, so yes, you and I did these three 90 minute sessions and people showed up and we talked and we presented some slides. But then the leave behinds are really, really powerful. So the one for the one from cadence is a is a 10 page document that lays out seven meetings and each meeting has got the cadence, the purpose, the length, the invitation list, how to prep for it and what the agenda is. And so this is literally your whole meeting strategy boom in a box like there you go. And so that's part of what everybody got from that program when we did commitments, we gave everyone a risk management template. So they and they you know they were using it right away. They told us they told us the following week, you know they're in there, they're making copies of it. It's just a simple Google sheet, but it had all the information pre populated and they were able to take that and get it up and running super, super fast. So again, tremendous value in the lead behind and the one from week one was the template for the charter. And again, something immediately useful right away. And I think that's that's important and just to share with the people who are listening is like, you know, this is not just training for training, sake, where everyone's sitting there and they're putting their feet up and they're listening to us talk about some topic. You know, we're giving you the background or giving you the information and then you get the tools so you can go out there and bring it to life inside your company so that you can now take control of your career and what you're trying to do. And hopefully not have as much chaos going forward. So I think those documents that we put together are really powerful. Yeah, I agree. It takes out a lot of the guesswork and gives people a framework for how how to transform this account management practice and their and their business right and apply it. So. So what's your advice to people who weren't at this? How can they get ahead? Well, obviously you have the book. If you're like me, you can read a book and then go, okay, well, that was great. Now how do I go and do this in real life? I think the cohort obviously was great because you can hear from other people that are going through the same things, even though there are different industries. People were sharing ideas, what worked well on their team. You know, we had CROs and executives in there that were sharing about what they were doing at their companies. Obviously a lot of people get great ideas from this podcast. I couldn't believe how many people in our cohort had mentioned. Oh, I learned about this on the podcast. You know, and this is what we're trying to do in our and so everyone had been through some amplify content in some way already before joining the cohort and the cohort really helped them to solidify that and and take the next step. So if if people are curious, I would say join amplify we all of our all of our sessions are recorded in there, I believe, right? So they can go back and watch them. We have certification program for count plans, QBRs, all the necessary account management practice templates and AI training. I mean, you could probably spend a year in there just going through all the content and learning from people. Well, we're getting we're getting to the point where there's there's more content in them than you can use on a in a short in a short time, which is fine. I mean, you got to go find the specific problem that you want to solve or the issue that you have today. And one of the reasons that amplify exists is because there's no such thing as an MBA for account management. Like it doesn't exist. There's no school. There's no there's no account management school. And so amplify is essentially, you know, doing that for people. And you know, so I think it's it's I think it's great that people hear the podcast and they they get the surface level information and kind of you know get a survey of the land. What we're doing with these flagship programs at amplify is going a lot deeper and changing how we think and how we talk about the role. And that's where the game is going to be one or lost and that's what we were doing here. So this was actually a very, very executive level discussion about stuff and executive level. We don't have 50 slides. We're not covering 50 topics. We're doing three topics and we're going deep and we're talking about them and exchanging ideas and experiences and building on it together. And that's really what we've been doing with all of the amplify flagship programs and now we're continuing. And as you mentioned, Jan, we already have them on. We have QBR mastery. We have a count planning boot camp, negotiating renewals and upsells like a boss. Now we have building the growth department. We have the NRR growth mastermind. So this is all part of the canon that we're building. And so I'm excited about continuing to both bring in new ideas when appropriate, but also go deeper on the things that we know matter to people and that's where we're going to continue doing. And so my invitation to folks is go check out amplifyam.com, see what's on there, see how what we're doing resonates with the challenges and opportunities that are on your plate today. And this is a place for leaders. So whether your title says you're a leader or not up here in your brain, you're a leader, right? You're act like a leader. You are projecting yourself as a leader. And this is going to help you to take control of your career and move forward. So lots of new stuff coming. And I would say go check out amplifyam.com, the amplify website for all the new stuff that is popping up. So fun to do it with you. Thanks for your help on the program. And thanks also for coming and doing this podcast recap. Great job. Thanks, Alex. Thanks for having me. And one question for you. Are you doing amplify flagship programs quarterly? Live quarterly? Thank you. Thank you for asking. Yes, these are quarterly. So the next one's going to be over the summer. And so a couple left in 2026. Quarterly is the right rhythm because we all have a lot going on. We all have day jobs. And I just want to give everyone time and space to go deep on a certain topic every 90 days. And these are pretty well telegraphed in advance so you can plan around them. And personally, I like the format of 390 minute sessions over three weeks. That seemed to work well. Yeah, I love the format that we're doing right now, Alex. You're really good at engaging people and having them actually work in the session. And so it's not like, let's just hear Alex and Jennifer talk. It's actually they're applying what they're learning real live in the session. And so it's way better than attending a webinar. Awesome. Thank you. So if you're listening and that caught your attention, check out what we're doing. And we look forward to seeing you in the next program. Jennifer, thanks for being here. Thanks, Alex. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Account Management Secrets. If you're ready to boost your career and sharpen your skills, come check out Amplify. Explore our elite community of top performing account managers, packed with courses, tools, and a vibrant network at amplifyam.com. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next week. [BLANK_AUDIO]