Abdul El-Sayed Wants to Pick Up Where Obama Left Off

Big news this weekend in Michigan's Senate race Barack Obama is coming to Detroit to campaign with Democratic candidate Abdul El-Sahed. I am Jonathan Cohn from the Bullwork. I have been following this Michigan Senate campaign. I can tell you things are close. The polls have El-Sahed slightly ahead of Republican Mike Rogers, but the margin is small. And everybody knows that El-Sahed still has work to do to shore up Democratic votes and especially in the black community. And that is one of the reasons that Obama is coming to Michigan. You know, El-Sahed has said he is grateful to have the former president or he's excited. He's actually never met the former president before. But hanging over all of this is a certain dissonance as well known that El-Sahed is from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, which has always looked on Obama and the Obama presidency with a little ambivalent sometimes his appointment, sometimes outright hostility. And El-Sahed himself has a record of writing that he has been disappointed with the Obama presidency, things it didn't accomplish, things it did. Now, ever since Obama's visit was announced, El-Sahed has said he is so excited to meet someone who's been such an inspiration for him. But I wanted to know, what does he really think about the former president or what the former president accomplished in office this past Sunday? I got a chance to ask him about that, while El-Sahed was on his campaign bus traveling between Flint and Detroit, here's what he had to say. I want to talk about Barack Obama, we'll get thoughts about it. So was I right when he called that was the first time you'd ever spoken to him? It was like a, it was like a, I mean, it's kind of crazy, I'm like this, this is the voice of the, of the president of my twenties, he's a very distinct cadence. He does. Yeah, it was, it was a lovely conversation, I was just really honored. I've been so honored for a sport really, like, you know what I tell you, I've read everything he's written. Twice. I've read everything he's written. Twice. Yeah. He is a, you know, he really, he created the, he created the political firm in it, in which I operate everyday, and I don't take it for granted. I get to do what I'm doing because he's, he did what he did, yeah, yeah. And I understand, you know, I get asked a lot about my style, and people don't ask the question, but implicitly they're like, you'll get to be brown and pugnacious. Like how come you think you're allowed to do that? I was like, 'cause president about me. You know what I'm saying? That's energy, because I mean, and people don't think of him as pugnacious. I know. But he, and he wasn't, yeah. But it was because he normalized people like him with names like ours, doing this. You know, I am by nature, like, I like to build, like, my, as a child, my favorite thing to do was like, I could sit for hours and hours and hours play like I was, or go play sports. Those are the two things that I knew could always be my engineers. Yeah. But like, I would build, and I like to build, but if you're coming to kick down what we're building, I'll fight you. Yeah. Like, I'm not afraid. Yeah. So I was also the kid in AP classes were getting suspended for fighting, like, I, you know, I, I don't believe in fighting for fighting sake, but I believe in a righteous fight. And the reason I'm allowed to be who I am is because he was who he is. Yeah. And, you know, so I'm grateful for that. I have so eternally grateful for that. So I was like, also, I'll just say this like before he ran, I did not believe, like I literally told Bill Clinton that I couldn't run for office because of my day. Yeah. And my whole career, people told me like, you're going to run for office today. I was like, oh, I'm not, I have an alum at Rhodes House. I remember sitting there with the warden of Rhodes House being like a duel. He literally told me he's like, he's an Australian guy. He's like, you know, you're the most American of the American Rhodes College. I was like, what? He's like, no, you're the most American one. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, your whole thing, like the whole personality, like this, just you are as American as I've ever seen. And what did he mean? Why? Meaning like, someday you're literally like, what do you want to do with your life? I was like, I want to be a scientist and a doctor. Yeah. He was like, why? I was like, because I love science. He had the idea of healing people. He's like, no. You're going to run for office today. I was like, no, I am not. Like you don't understand. There are open questions about whether or not people like me can do that. Right. And I remember him saying this to me. He was like, you know, all your classmates, you're the one, I think, America, until you, I was like, you know, and you know, like that was two thousand and not in his first year in office. So you have talked to him, you know, so I brought your book, your first book, I read it, I read it. And you said in the book what you said, and a number of times you, what you just said, I'm going to admire President Obama. As a leader, what does he, whether, are there skills he has that you want to emulate? I mean, you'd be a senator, not a president, but just you know. Here's the thing right, like, there are things about him, I saw admire him. Uh, clearly it's actually brilliant, always so hopeful, always seeks to find like the cradle of truth that somebody else has argument. Just that, and I'll again, it's about him, the way that he cared itself. You know, to get through all of the time he's been in public service with no public omissions says a lot about his character. Those are all things that I really admire in him. There are some things about him, it is personality, I, like, I, I, I see provables that hit me, and there are some things that were just different people, you know, like, so I'm, I'm going to be me, right? I know who I am. He, I've been me for nearly 42 years now, and there are ways that I want to learn from the way he led, and there are ways that I'm going to lead in my own way. Also, I'm not ready for president, right, it's a very different job, the U.S. Senator. This episode is sponsored by The New York Times, with the midterms just around the corner, there's a fascinating disconnect between what Donald Trump is saying and what Republicans are actually doing, not Trump wants voters to treat the election as a referendum on, you guessed it, Donald Trump. But a new New York Times analysis found that less than a dollar out of every $100 that Republicans have spent on House and Senate ads have gone to ads that mention Donald Trump. 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And so there are other people who I also think about and really want to be like to, right, if you think about people like Senator Saiders, right, he just, Jeremiah, people will say the truth, whatever the circumstance, there are people like Senator Warren, who is just like an intellectual sparkler, like just great ideas all the time, and we were just having a conversation when she was here. She's like, I have this idea, and that I didn't really go to write ideas, let's go nerd out about that. People like Senator Van Horn, right? So you know, one wants to learn from different groups of people below them, you know who we are. You know what I mean? I know who I am. Next you have this line, and you've said this recently too, you've said, you described the Obama presidency as inspiring intentions, but it not all of it, but unfulfilled or reversed. What's your critique? What do you think went wrong and why? I think you know my critique. My viewers don't know much about my critique, like I just, they're, obviously he was dealing at a different time. It was 2009 through 2016. He literally came into office inheriting the worst financial crisis in nearly a century. He decided that he wanted to do healthcare, which was like an incredibly bold decision in that time. Right? He could have just done the recovery, and people would've been like, yeah, no, he, he inherited that as well, but he decided to, that was bold. I would have loved us to get to more and better, but like built that start of all, right? And I think the challenge, of course, is just the degree to which, and maybe this is like because we watched him, I get this is a hard part, right? It's like, I can't put myself in the issue, because I know in hindsight what happened. And I think he was operating at a time where he, he, he believed that Republicans were coming with good faith. That's that hope in him. Like I just love that. And also, I think we've all learned now that there's not good faith there. So part of me says, okay, we're going to play Smash now. Here it is. And like, you're going to push this. I'm going to push this. I'm going to push it. Get everything we need. Right? We're going to push. And let's see where we finish up. If your offensive line is better than my defensive line, then here we are. But if not, then we're going to sack your quarterback and that's how it's going to be. But we are going to play at the line of scrimmage, and we are going to play the win. And I think that's because we learned from the fact that like they were not playing at the faith, whether it was Republicans or it was corporations, they were not playing at the same. And that's learning from him. You should know what I mean. Similarly, you know, there are things when it comes to immigration or that I think even he would like to have back, right? And he writes about it in a promised land. And so he's reading a promised land. I told you I read everything he's written twice. And so, you know, part of this is that, as someone who both admires his leadership and also has grown up in the world in which he led, they're going to be things you agree with that he did. JCPOA was a masterstroke, right? His work on Cuba was a masterstroke. The fact that he went after healthcare, in his first term, it decided to fight there, masterstroke. Didn't quite get where I would have wanted to go, but you know, you are prodigal to that fight, better than anybody, right? But also, you learn from where your predecessors leave off and you pick up the baton and try your best someday. Like, somebody who's watching, I hope, will have engaged with my leadership and be like, "Hey, this is where he fell short." All right, you go pick it up and you go do it. Right? Like, that's the gift. I've been around long enough now to obviously have had a lot of mentors and also have my own mentees. And one of the best things about that mentorship relationship is watching your mentors watch you grow up and also give you the space. And I remember, I mean, I've had this one mentor I've been in relationship with a very long time. And I thought I want to be just like him, right? I'm gonna be a professor just like him. And I remember him telling me, he's like, "You're not long for this world." I was like, "What do you mean?" I was like, "I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna go and do this." He's like, "No, you're not happy here." I was like, "What do you mean?" I was like, "I was literally an assistant professor." He's like, "You are unsatisfied and you need to go do what you are going to do." And that's kind of the moment where I was like, I maybe I need to look into public services when I left academia and jumped into the city in Georgia. And I'm really grateful, like for him seeing something different to me, right? And opening up that space and letting me grow up. As I've had my own mentees, I remember having a very different conversation with a mentee of mine, who was just like, "Well, I just grew up with what you're doing here and there and here and here and here." I'm like, "Cool, do it better." Here, I mean, like, great, like I'm grateful for that, right? First, it's helpful for me to understand how you're seeing it. But also, I'm grateful that you care enough to go pick up the thing. And one of my great gifts will have been to have been able to walk this path with you for this short time and hopefully have had an impact on you when you go and like, say, "Well, that's awesome," right? And it's also interesting because you come back and people are like, "Oh, I see what you're trying to do with that." Similarly, when I look at the Obama presidency, there are things that I was really critical of that now I'm in the same boat. So I'm like, "I understand more the playing field as you saw it." - Interesting, like, what, like once in a while? - Well, just, I mean, you think about, like, but frankly, healthcare, right? Like, I would have loved to get to single payer. I think the playing field in which he saw it was you're going to be able to get there, would have loved to get to public option. I think, you know, that's a thing I think he would have loved to get to, right? But the playing field's different now. Very different now. And so I'm operating in a different playing field with hindsight of having been able to review the tape there a lot of times. I wanna take that for granted, you know what I mean? And so, you know, you build off of the work that others do. They mentor you, they help you grow. And even if I've only had one conversation with the former president, I've read everything he's written, right? And thought a lot about it. And, you know, I hope that I can pick up where he left off. And again, I hope that some of my mentees someday, right, whether I know them or I don't, I'm gonna be like, ah, this is where he, like, fell short. I hope I don't, but like, you know, this is hard work. - The 2004 speech, he's talking about it in the memoir. You're watching your dishes, I think you said. - Was your grandparents' house then? 'Cause we didn't talk about it. - I was, I think I was home on a weekend. - Okay. - I have my parents' house. - Okay. - And I remember seeing, I remember actually, I remember being at their kitchen and I was doing dishes after having my guy, I got home late and I was eating on my own and like, I remember the TV being on and just being like, holy, wow, I've never seen that before. And the speech was just so good. It was the first time I was ever like, well, you're talking about me, you know what I mean? I was like, oh my God, like, and you're doing it from the floor of the DNC, that's insane. - It's such an optimistic speech, right? It's about, we're all one country, you people are saying, I know the speech, but also, do you think it's right? We're so divided now. - Yes, I do think so. We're not as divided as we think we are. We're divided now, I'll go to those. But I don't think we're as divided as we think we are. And I think if you like, if you snap your fingers, the whole internet went away, I think it'd be like three years until we were kind of back to a place where people kind of agreed on more general things. I think we are constantly swimming in waters that seeks to divide us more. But like, no matter who you are, you're spending more on gas. No matter who you are, you're spending more on groceries. No matter who you are, you worry about seeing a doctor. I think we're not as divided as we think we are. And I think good leadership is about trying to find the places of growth. But in terms of bully, the thing about bullies is they operate in part by scaring people who don't necessarily agree with the bully, but this is a go-along to get a long kind of thing. And there's a reason I stand up to him, so clearly, because you don't have to be afraid of the bull. You can have it different way. And in the end, more often than not, bullies don't operate because they're truly strong, they operate because they are fragile and weak. There was one more. There was an interview you gave with the Breakfast Club. Which I thought was one of the best interviews. I didn't ask any questions. And I thought I was going to ask any conversation. And you may have said this before that you want to be the bully on behalf of the bully. I have always been in that role. Like, when I was young, very young-- I was going to ask you some of the bullies you talked about. Yeah, I've moved a lot when I was a kid. So imagine having to reintroduce yourself as a kid. They'd be able to do whatever you'd like to go. Were you around the Michigan Detroit area? Yeah, I moved. And so Detroit area, I have to go right on. Yeah. But it's been some time in Missouri. It's been some time in Florida. And I learned pretty early that if you let a bully take a lunch, you're not going to eat a lunch. So I was just like, nope. And the question of what happens when the bully is stood up to is the important question. You don't stand up to a bully to be a bully. You stand up to a bully. So you prove to everybody else that you can stand up to them and that all of us can be in due and live in harmony. And Donald Trump has become a bully in our policy. I mean, and the thing about him is that he's just such a tool. You're like, 80 year old guy walking around. Part of me is like, if I ever get to be 80 years old, like I hope I'm not so vain as to pretend like my hair is not gray. And so vain as to pretend that I'm still some sort of like, you know, got any prowess at all. Like just be 80, bro. Like it's OK. You know, it's a dignified age. And he just takes somebody who can take that much dignity out of old age. I'm just like Mike, and he's just like, you are. Wow. Let me just, just the epitome of narcissism. And so there are so many ways to just poke at that, to force people to see that it's all just a facade. It's all just a facade. It's, you know, Wizard of Oz. Pay no attention to the map on the curtain.