Aaron Hadlow - Harlem Product Manager

the reason that I did originally move over to Harlem is to chase that potential, you know, and that's what I've seen in Brainchild and I'm seeing it come through now. Welcome back to Beneath the Surface, the official podcast for Harlem kite surfing with me, Lewis Krathearn. Today we're going to be joined by Aaron Hadlow, one of the pioneers of our sport, a multiple world champion and now key figure at Harlem kite surfing. We're going to talk about his role with Harlem, what drew him to the brand in the first place and how he sees the future of our sport. Aaron, how are you doing? I'm very good, thanks. Let's start with your official role because I see you doing so much of the brand. I can't even, I noticed your signature, actually, your Harlem kite surfing signature is blank because you have so many roles. It's hard to put it into one, but could you give me your official title? Yeah, I guess it's going to towards product manager, basically, or it is product product manager, but like I say, there's a lot of projects I'm involved with. And I think when I first joined, that was, it was basically as a rider, in some ways, with the potential to move across into into the position I am now over the years. It's a transition in my life at this time from staying very competitive and an entering event to a point now where it's definitely more clear that my competitive can come across into products instead. So yeah, officially definitely yeah, taking over the product side and making sure everything comes together with, yeah, timelines, working with factories. I'm pretty much designing the boards and then obviously still testing heavily with Ralph. So there's a lot of stuff that is under that umbrella, but I think as the first years were also a bit of a somewhat advisory role. I think just the experience that I've gained and working with FlexiFoyle for 10 years or more from an early age understanding, kite development, understanding the business, how it runs, how products are developed and marketed and as a bit of a one-man showback then trying to get that understand that side of things and then with duetone it was the other side where it was a huge company and I came in as a rider and tried to give my feedback in a certain way, but seeing how both ends of the spectrum ran, I think that gave me a really good insight to where, yeah, I could advise whether it's for how we manage the team or the riders or what products are doing well here or there or how to run a photo shoot. There was a huge amount of things that I jumped in on to see what I worked best at. You've listed four or five roles already there. So at the start you didn't know exactly the role you'd have. You just wanted to see where it would go and give everything you knew into the brand. Yeah, definitely. That's how I saw it. I think for sure with the ultimate plan that I would end up where I was but not knowing the time frame that that would take, it's actually come quicker than expected I would say, but I didn't know how that transition would be basically, but ultimately I think Alex and Ralph and the guys there at Harlem knew this was the direction I was going, but along the way I'm definitely able to help in other departments and give my thoughts of how we should do things, how we can be the most efficient and come across also in the best way to hit the market the way we are doing at the minute. So it's a big, it was a small team when I joined it's expanding. It's still relatively small with still relatively small company with high with a high impact and everybody is working, working super, super hard as well. So yeah, I'm happy just to help out in each place if I can, but definitely now the product management role is quite substantial once you fully dive into it and take full responsibility there. So yeah, I'm definitely prioritising that more and more as these months go on. Now the glimpse that I have into how much work you do behind the scenes because I'm obviously on calls with you now and part of the brand and it's amazing to see just how much goes on behind the scenes especially with the product development. We're going to talk a little bit about that in a moment, but I do have to ask you and I think our listeners will relate to this as well. When you get comfortable in life or you maybe you've had a job for a long period of time, let's not forget you were with Dua Tone for at least 10 years I believe it was. Was it something that you were nervous about the move, the change of the work that you had and the relationships you had? You had it kind of, wouldn't say easy with Dua Tone, but you knew what you were doing. Was that a period where you really had to think, is this really what I want to go into a new brand? Were you nervous? Yeah, definitely. I mean it's an interesting time, like you say. You know a brand well, you're very comfortable in the role you play, but I think personally I was not achieving my full potential as something that I could provide to a company and I think that's something that made the decision a bit easier. But of course going from the biggest brand in the industry to a relatively unknown brand that obviously had huge potential of us, I wouldn't have taken that leap. It has its risks in itself, right? Like regardless of what you want to do personally, but yeah, I think having that relationship to products working with Ralph for so long in the test inside of things, I really wanted to follow that product development direction where I saw some potential with the brainchild factory. I wanted to be able to give input to a company and not that it wasn't listened to before, but it's just the scale of a company when you join a smaller company and there's less roles filled and I think your voice is just heard a bit more and that is something that I'm I was really happy to be a part of. So yeah, it was definitely nervous times, but it was also something I was quite confident that we could make work. I don't think many people saw it coming, but I think there's a great message there is that sometimes you've got to take some risks to go where you want to go to in life and you definitely, I've certainly experienced this as well. There's sort of an inner voice which is telling you, especially for you, you had a similar thing where are you achieving your potential? Could something different maybe bring something out of you that's crying to get out? And I think it's clear to see certainly first hand what's come out of you to see just how productive and how that reflects in the products that Harlem are producing now and we'll talk a bit about that, but it's obvious as well that you have a close relationship with Ralph and I'm interested what does you know on a day-to-day life actually look for you. You know, you're out in Cape Town now. You've been very busy working with Ralph and testing kites. How does that look? Just give me a typical day in Aaron had those life product designer or tester. Have you want to phrase it with Harlem? Yeah, I mean day-to-day is different depending on the project project that's available or what we are working on at the time. I would say a classic day for me here in Cape Town recently is to wake up and have communication with factories. Let's say I'm working on a board or an accessory then there's a bit of back and forth to either deliver some files, to chase up some changes, some specification changes to organize those things to come out for testing. You know, so that's one side of things. And then you get the call from Ralph. You get the call from Ralph, right? And I let's pretend here. So hey, Aaron, what's up? It's Ralph here. Let's go and do some testing. 20 kites. Yeah, Achtung. Come on. Yeah, I see you with three. I see you with three. I'm there on time. I'm at the beach. It's seven now. Come on. Hello Achtung. But it's long hours. It's serious. It's long hours that you do with Ralph, right? Yeah, no, totally. But we generally just test for a certain amount of time, which will be, yeah, I would leave the house at midday one o'clock and meet up with him. And then it's a four. Yeah, like I would say, between four and six hours on the beach, depending on what we're doing, sometimes longer, sometimes less, depending on the conditions, but time flies when you're on the beach. And sometimes they're more intense. I might not, you know, we will chat most days every other day about something that we are working on, but it might not be that for one week, we have nothing to test. So we are not on the beach on a day-to-day basis, you know, but then the next week, a full set of approvals arrive. We have a prototype for the next model of this one, or we have a set of boards that just arrived and definitely happened even in the last, I would say, two, three weeks, which has been the most very intensive period for me, where we had to test. We had to approve two models, a couple of boards. We had to do the photo shoots for it. And juggle in all that simultaneously is just absolutely intense. So yeah, I've literally been all day, every day for quite a while now. From the outside, I reckon people think it's the dream life right. Caught in all day, testing car. I know a lot of friends who would be like, "Oh, you're so lucky you get to do that." But do you think maybe there's a naivety without with people looking in from the outside? It sounds like it's not as straightforward as just going quite surfing all day. Are there days where you don't enjoy it? Or is it fun always? No, not always, definitely not. In the end, it's. Yeah, some of it becomes a job like anything else, certain parts of it. Of course, super lucky to travel the world, super lucky to be involved in an industry that I'm love and I'm passionate about. So having that clear goal and a job and a product to release, it's just part of the game. And that fulfillment, once it's done, is always there. Shortly to answer, it's like the days are long, but the fulfillment is there. Yeah, and I think you've put some great points across there that it's not always in tropical waters, sunshine. I know, I've actually looked and looked to your location where you've been, spoke to you at the end of the day and you said, "I've been in Thessaloniki somewhere in Greece in the freezing winter on your own in 30, 40 knots offshore somewhere, testing because you had to get something tested and complete and communicated to Ralph." And that goes back to that very big word that RCEO Alex used in the last podcast, which is dedication. When a prototype feels good to you, what are you actually feeling? I mean, you're not just saying to Ralph, "Well, this is good." You know, how do you translate a feeling to Ralph, you know? Yeah, we have a bit of a language understanding or phrases that we use over time. I think we're lucky in the fact, or that we work so well together, that the fact that what we feel in a kite is practically identical, I would say it's really weird. Like, we really have this same level of understanding of how a kite feels and what it does. So to come back and use words that we both kind of understand what we're saying is the key. You know, like other people might have that bond, but explain it in a totally different way. But I think that long-term experience is really what makes it efficient for us to communicate and what a kite is doing. But basically, it all starts from having to clearly go of where that kite needs to be, you know? So it's like, "Listen into the market here in the feedback if we have a product that's already out." Or, "Looking at the market and say, 'We need to put a place of product here because we feel like that's the best place or that's how that kite should feel for that corner of the market for that product, let's say.'" Do you ever argue with him? You know, like, is there a been a moment where you said, "Row, look, Ralph, come on. What are you thinking? What are you doing? What are you thinking here? This is like the same work in a tool. Do we ever have those sort of conversations? With the kite's not so much like a disagreement is quite rare, but yeah, we do maybe not disagree on what the kite is doing, but maybe what we think it should be, let's say. Ultimately, he's the lead designer in the kites and he has the final decision and he has a feeling of where he really wants to position it. You know, it's his baby, he creates it. And in the end, we definitely always agree. I think a cool way to put it is that he likes to push the boundaries. I like to push the boundaries of the performance. So sometimes we go a little bit, we step a bit too far over the limit. So let's say we're working on a peak. We had some peaks that were quite intense and maybe harder to ride, but maybe potential to like in certain conditions at a certain point, you might be able to gain like a little bit from it. So for me riding it, I'm like, if I was to have that kite, I would pick it because I know at the right time, like, if it connects, it goes. But we usually step back a little bit from there to make the kite way more user friendly, easier to ride, easier to jump. So we see how far we can go, but then we generally pull it back to a point not that it's less performance, just more that it's more of a confidence booster for more people to extract the performance, let's say. So yeah, it's really an argument. It's more about what the kite really should do for the market in the end. We're making products for the consumers, not for a handful of riders, but we want to make a kite like with the peak that the top riders can extract a huge amount of potential from it and really get that confidence. And you see with Lorenzo and his brother and the guys on the team, they're able to put that kite so low, have a total confidence, it will catch them. But at the same time, the guy down our local beach, he's just learning to jump bigger and bigger, do their first kite. So he also have that confidence in the kite. That's really the balance we look for. That must be very difficult for you to stay objective like that. I can imagine you can get almost tunnel vision on thinking, wow, this for me, this for me could be amazing. It must be hard to step back sometimes, as you say, that you do with Ralph and be like, actually, the step back here, we could go all the way down that journey, but the bottom line is that this has got to work for everyone. Yeah, I think that's the difference between maybe some pro riders that are younger and the experience that I gain myself, right? So when I was younger at Flexi4, I only pushed that sea kite to do the best it could do for me to win the competition. Like there was nothing else. I just fully focused on myself. It was a different time in the sport that the sea kite, you know, was the only kite available. And people wanted to take some performance, but that thing, yeah, it was hard to relaunch, it was hard to ride. It was known for being very difficult, but I could use it to my full potential to win my world championships, right? So that's one side of the story. But nowadays, I understand the other side of like having to sell the kite and having to make that work in a different way. Whereas, you know, I know when you're young and competitive, you're really looking for ultimate performance for yourself deep down, you know, so that's the journey I've been on from a young age and the understanding that I get. So I think that's quite a cool, a cool way to look at things nowadays and I can put that experience into a kite for the market. Moving on, we're going to discuss what's next at Harlem. What is Harlem focusing on when developing kite specifically for big air performance, which is a hot topic right now? Yeah, definitely. We have a few options. We started off with the thrive. Then we moved on to the peak, which was the five-struck, more high performance big air kite. So yeah, we always look at the kites that we have so far in the ranges. Let's say the thrive as a high performance all round dedicated towards bigger. Let's say that's where the sport is and then we have the five-struck jump in machine, I would say, but we still needed to be able to make it to loop. So I think we have a really good balance in those two products already. Whereas the thrive is a bit tighter in the loop, a bit more forgiving, let's say a bit more easy to learn the tricks, a bit more safe and less pulling the loop a bit tighter, a bit easier to control. The peak, once you tune into it, it's something special. You can really pull some crazy. It's special, yeah. You can pull some amazing days on the water from this thing. Whether it's super windy, you just have more control when you're more overpowered. And then the loops are a little wider, so you get the kite a bit lower, but still has a lot of confidence to catch you. It's pretty sure to catch you in the at all times, especially in the smaller sizes. So I think what we look for and moving forward from the range we have now is our main focus. For me, it's. Yeah, being able to extract that performance from the kite, but like I mentioned a bit before, it's having that usability that gains you confidence. Because if you have a kite that. Yeah, you can push over the limit and crash and hurt yourself maybe. That always puts you back. It takes a long way to get back to that point again. But if you have a kite that is. Yeah, you're able to have that confidence, maybe the loop isn't as low or it's not as powerful, but you're able to give it a little bit more input that will save you in a tricky situation. That just means that the next time you go out, you can just put it a bit lower and a bit lower and kind of find the limit like that. Whereas if you have a kite that you just go out, you push it to its limit and it still nails you, you just lose confidence. And I think having that confidence is what gives you the level, gives you the chance to try new tricks and do new things. And then you're able to get to that point and then work on the essay, kite angle, power, height. And I mean, you can just look at how Lorenzo has progressed with the peak. Yeah, it's clear that that's the direction we go for. And from what you said about what's the future, I think at Brainchild there's been a lot of development on materials. across the industry now. We had a Lula, we have other companies making their own laminates, the canopy materials. Why don't we use a Lula? So we don't use a Lula because one, the price to value is something that we really consider to be a huge point for Harlem. We want to make the best products in the best price range possible. So, you know, there's always people that will buy the most expensive product to get the best kite, but we feel that we can come very close, if not better than some of the leading products out there with a much cheaper price point. So that's one thing, price to value. We always look at that primarily. If there's a chance to add a new material and make a big leap in performance, then definitely that's a consideration. But yeah, we just feel with the pro world, with the Dakar on that we use at the moment, that is a great combination for stiffness and durability and the feeling that you get. So no need to change on that. Why does the pro world give you a different feeling? How does the pro world give you this extra performance? Well, it links all the leading edge into one. So that's one side of things. It's welded to a point that it makes the frame stiffer, but we use a material that is softer. So it's kind of balances itself out, that this kind of softer material gives you a more damp feeling, like it's more like comfort. So it will ride through the gusts more, but then like the torsional stiffness is still there because it's like world is one piece. So that's the balance. You want the kite to keep it shaped, but then this feeling and of smoothness as well is something that gains you that confidence too. So that's where we see the big benefit in it. But yeah, we are looking into different things. And like I said, like brainchild is a very innovative factory canopy materials. You know, there's different stiffnesses of that. There's different strengths. Also the leading edge materials, there's potential to to improve there too. So like every company right now, we are looking into many different things. And yeah, the reason that I did originally move over to Harlem is to chase that potential, you know, and that's what I've seen in brainchild, and I'm seeing it come through now. Recently, you introduced a freestyle package, the descent and the headlobe pro. Why did you feel this was necessary? And are there plans to expand in other disciplines as well? Yeah, most definitely. For me, the the sea kite and the wake style stuff has always been my passion. Like it's my favorite discipline even now when I have the chance to do it in good conditions. There's no better feeling for me. I love it. I can't do it as much as I would love to. The time, the trips, the body just doesn't allow it like it used to, you know, but it's sad to see it's it's taken a bit of a backseat in some ways. And I felt now was a good time to introduce something, even though it's more of a passion project, of course, we're not selling huge numbers. But there's a lot of core freestyleers that are this will put a smile on their face. And the reason to introduce it is is more the fact the technology of kites in general has changed so much since the last, yeah, real new sea kite. Let's say it's been many years since a real new design came through. And with the new materials, with the new construction technologies, we felt that actually now if we make a sea kite with this, it is quite a leap from what has been made in the in the past. So that was the deciding factor. And then we were always at Harlem is making a full package. So the board and the bar came as one. We do that with, yeah, the peak and the ascent. We really feel that it's quite unique that we're able to now, we didn't have this in the past, me and Ralph, that we could develop a board in line with the kite. And we can feel a huge difference between having, let's say, a very slow board with a kite that really wants to drive, really wants to go through the window. And there's like a limit limit to what you can do because the board is just not in line. So we really developed like the ascent to be fast, really good grip, a lot of bite into the wind. So you can actually gain that potential out of the peak and they work as one together. It's almost sounds like a bit of a, you know, wine pairing or something like this one can really affect the other. And often it gets talked about even the bar being part of that conversation. And every touch point that you have, we hear this a lot in the internal meetings in the brand. And that's something I think that people don't know about so much with the products, even as much as each increment, each individual size kite. They're not just made and then duplicated in a bigger size like you apply this formula to every single different size kite, right? That must be absolutely time consuming and grueling. Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely. It's crazy. It's the attention to detail that we go into. We're talking like a millimetre half the time like half a centimeter here in a bridle tune. Like our ultimate goal is to make things simple for people to understand. So we really have, we have a pairing. Of course, you can ride a launch board with a peak if you're looking for something a bit softer, a bit more damped, it works. There's no doubt. But we have the ultimate pairings, let's say. So if we develop in the Hadlow Pro, that board is stiffer, a little bit bigger. It fits as the smaller fins, it has to go with the kite and be able to ride with boots, let's say. But then with the kites, like we also, we have one bar, which is one size in width. We have two different line lengths. But ultimately, we use one bar and we adjust the kites to all be in line from let's say five till 13 that you can use the one bar at 10 meter. We recommend to have longer lines at below 10. We recommend to have shorter lines. But other than that, yeah, we are, we are getting the final kites and we are spending a lot of time to make sure they all fill what that kite should be. So if you think of a thrive, it doesn't matter if you have a five or a 13, the DNA of that kite should be somewhat similar. You know, we try to really make them all progressively, yeah, we call it be in line, just like that everything is, is as one. So if you fly a nine meter and then you switch to your eight or your seven, you know what to expect automatically. Okay. The bar is another topic because we trim the kites to such perfection. We actually are adding extra pigtails so that at a certain point you're able to switch out the pigtails. So your lines are actually always within a tolerance of a few centimeters that would make the trim for the kite be perfectly flying the kite because the real lines actually shrink a little bit and if you leave it for too long, they may shrink up to four or five centimeters and we've designed the kite to work with maybe one to two. And then if your kite is over she did, it's not flying as well, it's not as intended. So we really try and give that message across that, yeah, this kite works best with this trim in these conditions with that board and then of course everybody is free to do what they want. But yeah, we have that available there. So I'm hearing that Harlem as a brand, we're really looking to fill in all those gaps for all the disciplines. Can you give me some insights as to what briefly what might be round the corner for the brand in terms of products? Yeah, definitely. I think it's fine to to mention this. We have a couple of products launches coming out. Are you sure? Do you want to check? Do you want to call someone quickly before we blur this out all over the web? Well, yeah, I think most enough people are seeing me doing what I'm doing out here. So the rumors are out, let's say, but yeah, we are working on a light wind package. I think that's fair to say, something that really works in conditions that have even surprised me. Definitely had some sessions in the conditions where I thought I could never have fun, always wanting to go out in the strongest wind possible and having Ralph call me, hey, it's five, six knots. Let's go today and I'm just like, oh, there's going to be a nightmare day. It's going to be long sat on the beach and actually getting on the water and having fun and I'm really pushing the boundaries on that side. So that's been really cool. And then another big project has actually been an all round kite more dedicated towards waves. I would put it like this, so a wave kite, which is a very easy to use intuitive forgiving kite. And I've been. Yeah, surfing and kite surfing at points during my career here and there, always had a hand in it, but never really jumped as deep as I have done recently into that to really get a good understanding of what that kite should do, what a surfboard should do. So that's another package that we are looking into now. So that kite also could be useful for people entry level as well, if you say it's quite easy handling and, you know, quite reactive. Would you say that would be one that could be good for entry level? Well, yeah, I would say that the characteristics of this kite, yeah, of a wave kite actually, or how we see a wave kite right now, is definitely translatable into that. The kite loop, for instance, is very forgiving. The power delivery is very easy. The bar pressure is easy. So they're all very. I mean, we've seen it with other. brands, right, that the wave kite is often a kite that can be used for, for beginning to intermediate. It's new for us. So let's see what happens. But it's always about, yeah, kind of finding a place for that kite in the market and then seeing what the market tells us basically and developing from there. So we've, yeah, we're really happy with how this turns out. It's really surprised me as an easy to use kite in all condition. I'm really keen to hear your thoughts about the direction of the sport. We've seen it go in so many ways over the years. How are you feeling at the moment, especially with regards to, you know, this topic about Big Air? It's really captured the imagination of the sport recently. Why do you think Big Air has become so dominant? Yeah, Big Air is just very spectacular. It's very easy to understand, at least in its initial stages. I would say now it still has that huge well factor, huge risk. But yeah, it's definitely getting very technical as well, right, with the board flips and the spins and the rotations and the amount of time you have on in the air to do certain moves now. So I think initially the freestyle thing is still for me the most technical aspect of kite stuff in like to do even a backside seven or something like that. The dedication and the time it takes to get to that level is quite quite a lot of time and effort, very conditioned, dependent. It's just, yeah, it's a rough journey to get to a high level in freestyle, I would say. But I mean, that's all it was back in the day, whereas I felt like Big Air was better for the sport overall from a outside perspective. People could understand going big. It was the potential of what a kite can give you in the sky. So this is definitely something that is attractive to new comers and for people to understand the sport. Everybody has a dream of flying, right? Every human being can relate to that inner drive to know what it's like to fly and you get pretty close with kite surfing with Big Air. Yeah, exactly. And it's that dream to fly and at times, you know, we've seen people jump up to, well, anywhere between 30 and 40 meters regularly now, which is when you stand on a 30 meter high building or if you jump 30 meters and actually have a look around, it's pretty, it is high, it's been impressive. So this is one thing. And yeah, I also feel that switch to Big Air also allowed a lot of young up and coming riders to reach a high level quickly. Yeah, as weird as it sounds, it is risky, it's, it is technical, but there was somewhat a difference in the time it would take to get to the top of freestyle, whereas and the time it would take to get to the top of Big Air, maybe because it was more in its infancy and nowadays that's starting to change. It's a little bit more technical and difficult. But yeah, I mean, for the future of the sport, it's really hard to see where it's going. Really, it can take one young kid who's super fired up to do something crazy and win an event and then just keep winning events because of, you know, one or two tricks. And that will change the sport. It's happened many times, you know, so what I've seen in the past of kite surfing is that the board off flips, spins, got to a point where there weren't enough time in the air to do any more spins or flips. And it's getting to a point now where the variations are very technical and hard to see. So it's officially becoming more technically difficult to understand. I can tell you that from a commentating perspective, that's definitely the case where you really have to pay attention what's going on now. But in some ways, you can argue that just the direction of where you look is what I find interesting that changes over the years. At one point, we were looking at the kite. Where's the kite? Is it related? And now our attention has turned to the rider. And just that small change can indicate where we are now. Like you said, about the technicality of it. It is unbelievable what the riders are able to do throwing the board around them with osmosis with however many rotations with their kite control. But you feel like there might be a limit to how far that can go. Well, I think the level just bunches up. I mean, you see it in other sport. Formula 1 over the years, the regulations come towards the end of the season. It gets very tight. And then there's a regulation change. I mean, that's not the case in kite boarding. But the level tends to bunch up, like the top riders get more and more. They get closer and closer together. You still have the leading guys who can put it down in a final and bring it together at the right time, like the Renzo's and Dre's, Jeremy, like all those guys are just able to stay at the high level and keep innovating. But that gets harder and harder. I've been there myself. I don't know what it is or what will happen. But yeah, there's potential, you know, that there's a change or a direction change or the judges look for something else or like I say, some kid does something crazy and he doesn't care to do that every time. But yeah, with Big S, there's also a risk of how far it goes, you know, and see that with FMX and, you know, the freestyle mode across and stuff, like it just gets heavier and heavier and the person who pushes the limits the most can win, but he can also, you know, really lose in terms of injuries. There's also the potential of maybe a new product coming out, which could just change the games. Remember, like you just said there, we don't exactly have someone going around measuring our kayaks to see if they are exactly eight meters printed on the, you know, or for the bar is this or that you can do what you want at the moment in in kite boarding. This is not like racing and that discipline, that's where that does happen. You all have to be using the same sort of stuff, but Big S is very free. What roles do you think events like King of the Air play in driving this sport forward? Well, it's huge to have these high level competitive, yeah, high risk, high reward events because it, you know, without competitiveness, you really, you don't put it on the line in the same way, like in training, like you have your days where you have like, yeah, your flow state or whatever, where everything just seems easy and you start progressing, that comes for all writers at a certain time or some more than others. But the times that I've really made a jump in my level is always been during events. So for the King of the Air, for instance, I've had heats where I'm eliminated or unless I land my last trick or I lose the final or unless I land my last trick and at that point, it's really a mindset of just like, I'll be tacking out like, okay, all enoughing, whatever happens happens, like I'm going for this trick no matter what, I have to land it. If you don't land it, it's high consequence, but if you land it, it's all the glory, you know, so that's the level that you push yourself. You really go to your limit and beyond because eyes are on you, it's your one chance to make a really big statement at a certain point, or so, for instance. So the competitiveness of things like the King of the Air or I mean most people have it in most events in general, but some matter more than others. So it's a huge part of progression of any sport, I would say. When you think back to the years you were competing on, let's say, the P.K.R.A. Tour, there were eight, nine events a year all around the world, there was a proper tour. If you look at things today, there's a lot more individual events, Red Bull Megaloop, Cold Hawaii, we've got King of the Air, there's, you know, being some of the big ones, we've obviously got the G.K.R.A. doing some events as well, where we might have Mikanos as a second event this year, but how do you feel about there not being so many legs of a official tour? Do you think that's important for kite boarding to have regular stops or do you like the way it is now? I'm a little bit torn, like I think having an overall championship is really rewards the overall rider across different conditions, so actually really is an overall over a year world champion. So I mean I had events where there was ten major world tour events, I mean at the peak when I was competing it was crazy, intense schedule, we were actually complaining like hey, like this is too much, like we're traveling way too much and yeah, well it's, that's unchanged later down the line when we weren't getting enough events and we're like wow how lucky were we to have that? Yeah, we're not traveling enough, we're not now the complaint is we're not traveling enough, I guess. So there's two sides of it, I mean I would like to see us a solid world tour and then yeah you have like maybe two or three standalone events like the Red Bull King of the Air, you know, like you have X games or you know you have these one off events in other sports that are big, big deals but you also have your world championship that is across let's say more than four or five events in a year at least to really yeah it really makes molds you as a rider and and test you across multiple conditions. So yeah I do like both it's just yeah we are missing missing a little bit of consistency in the events at the moment. Now it's time for community questions, which is a new section where questions come from our social channels prior to the interview. So we've got some interesting ones here, Fue Aaron. This one's from Thomas. He says, "Will you compete again in big air events in the future?" I'm not sure. Don't rule me out. Some reason I still look at some of the events and would be like, "Oh, that would be cool." But it's looking less likely than ever right now, but yeah, definitely don't rule me out. You never know what might pull me back in. Not officially retired, I like it. Okay, this one's from Victor. What should be the game-winning trick in big air these days? I think something needs to really differentiate yourself from other competitors. I've always believed in the kite loop or mega loop handle passes, so I will stick with that. But at a decent height with quite some risks, so yeah, the mega loop handle pass is still for me. Ben says, "What is the most common mistake you see average riders make in their take-offs?" I think the most common mistake is the timing. Having the thought to have to pull the kite as hard as possible to create that line tension, whereas actually the edge and the combination of where the kite sits is the biggest mistake. So finding that time and takes time, but once you unlock that, then it's exponential. Okay. Tom says, "What about the kite colors over time? Does storing wet affect them?" There's a great question. For all brands, we've had it over the years that if you pack up a kite wet after a session, it's unavoidable. You just can't help it if it's a stormy day in the UK, or you just crash your kite before finishing. Give it the best chance to cry, but if you pack it up and leave it in the car in the heat or packed up for a week until your next session, all kites will always do that. The best is for me, even if I've kited in the UK, I get home, unroll it enough that it's aired out in my garage or even in the back of my van. We definitely recommend with the digital printing to just take care of your kit, right? Like, "Why do you want to leave it all wet?" You spend so much money on it and want it in the best condition. Is there a wave kite coming from Mateo? I guess you don't need to answer that because we've done that earlier. Keith says, "Why the hell didn't. " Well, I can't read that. Who does these questions? I can't read that out. Iveana says, "Are you single?" No, I'm not far from single. Yoast says, "Who's going to win the Premier League? We'll ask when I win again." No, that won't ever happen. Victor again says, "Why do they call you "Azer?" I don't know. Maybe you have to answer that question. I think I could answer this question. I think we have a very famous football player in the United Kingdom from the past called Gaza. Paul Gascoin, very interesting character. I don't think you got known as Azer after his characteristics, if I'm honest. You may want to Google Paul Gascoin to see what he got up to, but certainly for his skill level being one of the best at what he did, maybe Azer came from Gaza. It's an English thing, isn't it? Wayne Rooney, known as Waza. Yeah, this is true. And there's other errands in football. I think it's a football thing. It's our football culture. It's time for rapid fire questions as well, where I've come up with a lot of these questions for you. So carry on with the same theme. What is the one trick you wish you had invented first? I think I would have liked to have been known for the slim chance, but that was way way back in the day. Like I was, don't think I was even kind of. What do you think the most overrated trick in kiteboarding is? Oh, overrated trick. Oh my God. I don't know what is overrated these days. You kind of have to head to light who do you want to upset here? It's like which people, which people do I want to upset here? Okay, I'll phrase it this way. Which kiteboarding trick do you think is extremely easy, which perhaps may look difficult? Well, I think all free soul. Nothing, everything's easy. You can say you can say everything's easy if you want to. It's okay. I've found most things. I don't know. Just the history. I'm like learning everything from a young age. I feel like, yeah, it's just everything's been so natural for me. I think the introduction of like the first kite loops, let's say, yeah, the kite, the first kite loop boardoffs were, were an evolution in the sport and led it to where it was. But at the time, I would have said it was overrated like a kite loop one foot or a kite loop board off at the time. Tell me the rider you would least like to face in perfect king of the air conditions. Yeah, Lorenzo, no doubt. He's just a machine and yeah, has amazing structure and technical abilities in his heaths. No doubt. If you could bring back one trick from old school kiteboarding, what would it be? How old school is that down to for me to determine? You can define it. I want one word. I'm going to stick with the kite loop handle pass. I think that's determined as old school now, but it needs needs to come back hooked in or unhooked. Yeah, the mega loop handle pass. Okay. All right. If there was no wind and no kite boarding, what sport would you be playing? I have a couple, but probably right now golf or mountain biking. Finally, we're on to your beneath the surface question. What is one thing Harlem is doing in product design that most people would never realize? I feel like the level of detail and the precision of measurements in bridles and. And yeah, and flex patterns in boards like really the details. I feel is something that we go very deep into. I don't know what other brands are doing to a certain point, but I feel like our technical mindsets and the way Ralph works is is very intense and deep. So I think yeah, just having that confidence like I say getting every kite to really feel in line. If a thrive has a feeling and a and something we're trying to create, then all the sizes feel like that. Also, the development rate is something that people maybe yeah, you do see a little bit from the outside, but maybe not know the amount of better and time that goes into a product to get it to a point for sale. So I think like yeah, the the rapid rise of our product line is quite unique at the moment. Well, thank you Aaron. That brings us to the end of your podcast. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks a lot. That was epic. Don't forget we will announce our next guest on the Harlem kite surfing channels where you will have the opportunity to give us your questions. Bye bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]