Aaron Donald's Return, Josh Jacobs's Status, and Making Sense of the Trade Market

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Kapati. Lots of news around the NFL this week. Aaron Donald is back with the Los Angeles Rams. Josh Jacobs is out for the Green Bay Packers indefinitely and a bunch of other stuff happening, a bunch of trades around the NFL over the weekend as teams set their 53 man roster. We're going to talk about all of it. We've got Tom Pellicero here. We've got Billy Gill here. Let's take a break. We come back. We get caught up on all the news around the NFL. This episode of the Ringer NFL show is presented by Orgain or Gain Creatine helps improve muscle size, strength and power when combined with a regular exercise and weight training routine. Plus, it's certified with informed choice, which means it's tested for prohibited substances in sports. Upgrade your performance with Orgain Creatine, available at Amazon, Costco, Walmart and Whole Foods. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. All right. Let's welcome Tom Pellicero and Billy Gill, a weekend filled with news. The big story guys, Aaron Donald returning to the Los Angeles Rams. Billy, I assume to celebrate you got out the 180 pound dumbbells and we're doing a little chest press this morning. Is that right? Yeah, you know, I mean, I'm still in off season shape. So I need to get into it. I think I have like, I have like those dumbbells that you can change the weight on them. You know, I'm talking about sure. Yeah, the adjustable ones only because I don't have that much space. Yeah. I mean, I'm like mid-tier right now in the dumbbells if you want to can reach over and grab them for you. Okay, let me go to 180 to pressure mine top out of like 52, yeah, 52. Wow, that's right. Mine, I think top out maybe at 25. These are very, very cheap. They're like Nordic track or something. They were on sale. Dicks one Thanksgiving one black Friday and said, let me get two of those bad boys. So I'm wondering when everything was marked up and I paid like triple the price because there was no way I was going to be able to work out otherwise for like the next 18 months. Okay, I'm glad you brought that up and people will hate this immediately because they hate me anyways. But here's a thing that I realized during COVID certain things are just not going to go back, right? Like we jacked up the prices on certain things dumbbells before you could get a deal. Now if you could find a dumbbell for a dollar a pound, that's like an incredible deal. But there's things that are just not going to go back and it's not because of scarcity. It's just because people realize we can just charge more for this, right? And people will pay it. That's right. Once you bump up the price and people will pay it, it's supply and demand. Billy, no, I don't want to go back to my economic stays in college. But I do remember a little something about that art. So no 180 pound dumbbells. We do have the, the adjustables. But Tom, this was something that was rumored for a while that way. We think Aaron Donald's going to come back. Sean McVeigh wasn't exactly playing coy when he was asked about it. How did this come together? And what do we expect from 35 year old Aaron Donald joining the Los Angeles Rams? Well, it's wild to think about was this was not even on the radar for anyone until the Miles Garrett trade, which is June 1st. It's less than three months ago. And it almost started out like an internet joke. Like people, people being like, wow, they get Aaron Donald to come back. Wouldn't that be something? And he like winked in the comments on a Instagram post or something. It became a real thing out of seemingly thin air. And so you knew when Aaron Donald was coming in, you know, a number of different times, multiple times officially on, quote, unquote, visits or tryouts or whatever they called them, that this was something that he was taking very seriously. But it's also a guy who's been out of the league for a couple of years. I think I've said it before. There's only one modern day Hall of Famer, one player since World War II, who's set out multiple seasons and come back. And that was Dion Sanders. He was a part-time player. He was still a pretty good player. But he wasn't 1995 Dion Sanders at this point. And so they're going to have a good plan in place. I don't anticipate it's going to involve Aaron Donald coming out and playing 70 snaps on September 10th in Australia. But I do believe that they feel like they can get him in a place where he's still able to impact the game in part because of what else they have up front. I mean, if you use him on passing downs in two minutes, those high leverage types of situations, you're basically saying, all right, as an offense, you've got to figure out how we're going to protect against Miles Garrett, Aaron Donald, Kobe Turner, Byron Young, all at once. I mean, you can't go max protect on every single snap, especially when you're trying to come back late in the game. It has the potential to create some mismatch problems. But step one in this, besides obviously getting him signed is, all right, what does this look like in the coming days? Weeks, is he ready to play week one? Is that on a extremely part time basis? A lot of different questions beginning to virtually unprecedented in NFL history, but it's one more wild storyline in a Rams off season. Full of time. I saw you reported that he was granted a two game roster exemption. So is that kind of like we're operating under the assumption he may not play the first two weeks? It's pretty common. I saw like every other NFC West fan complaining about like why the Rams get special rules for them. It's actually pretty common with regard to situations where a player is coming out of retirement right at the end. If they're coming off from a suspension, there's usually a window there where you don't count against the roster. However, the moment that they decide he's going to play, you lose the roster exemption. In other words, be plays in that first game. That's it. What you have is, all right, let's say a player gets a two game roster exemption. He doesn't play the first week. Yes, you get a 54th player on your roster. That's what the Rams have right now until they activate Aaron Donald, but the moment they put him on the field, that ends. It's not a unique thing. They didn't make it up on the spot to help out the Rams here. It's something that they actually do on a relatively common basis, even though Aaron Donald, Future Hall of Famer, coming out of retirement on August 30th, there's anything coming. Last played in 2023. Eight sacks, 23/4 back hits. He was a first team all pro at the age of 32. I was doing a little internet deep dive here to figure out our guys were 35 years old defensive tackles who have been who have had the most productive seasons. The two guys, Cam Hayward, still playing for the Steelers and Kaleiis Campbell. Those are the guys who doesn't matter where they are in their 30s. They've still been pretty productive. But I think Billy Tom nailed it where I think this is like a high leverage thing where it's all right. We don't need to week four. He does not need to be playing 40 snaps in that football game. You can kind of ease them in. You can wait till later in the season. This is about the playoffs. This is about high leverage situations. But Billy, you know how coaches operate. Sometimes they say stuff like this. Then it is week four. They're like, "I really want to win this game." Aaron, go get out there. It's third down. How do you think they're going to manage this? Especially Donald. He's a competitive guy. He's coming back. He's going to want to play. Do you feel like they're going to be able to stick to this script of not going too far with him right away? It feels like coaches and Tom, you could tell me if I'm overstepping here. It feels like coaches in general just liars, right? They're just going to tell you whatever it is that they're going to say and they're not going to stick to any of that in just gamesmanship. But they don't need to use Aaron Donald right away to what you're saying. She goes, "This is more for like the playoffs. This is more to get them over the hump against the Seahawks. This is more to win the Super Bowl right now, right?" I had been reading, I think that they said that maybe the strategy is like 20, 25 snaps on defense per game. I guess then you start building it up. You get to the playoffs. You get to the Super Bowl and then you use this as kind of like they couldn't get past Seahawks last year. This is the final piece that will hopefully get them over and they don't play the Seahawks until I think two out of the three last weeks of the season. So they don't even really need to worry about the Seahawks if they're in good shape. But I don't think he's lying necessarily. Sean seems like someone who will stick to his plan and they don't need him, need him. They're so good defensively already. The biggest question that I've heard talking to people, and obviously this has been going on for months. I've had a lot of these conversations, but even yesterday once it come back was, you know, all right, the Rams biggest question I was better be able to stop the run. Yes, you've got some amazing pass rushers up front here. But if teams just kind of run it down your throat when Aaron Donald's not on the field, obviously you're not going to have those same level of pass rush opportunities. And so that's going to be on, you know, Chris Shula and that defensive staff to figure out exactly how are we going to utilize all these different parts? Yeah. If you get into pass rush situations, you know, if I'm an offense, say about this in your head, and I'm not an offensive coordinate, I wouldn't profess to know the ins and outs of the X's nose here. But as wild as it sounds, don't you kind of dare Aaron Donald in the early going like, we're going to single hand. We have to double miles Garrett. We'd probably got to worry about the other guys, Byron Young and Kobe Turner. Like, let's single Aaron Donald and see what he does. He hasn't played a game in a couple of years here. The first time that he takes the quarterback down, you're probably going to adjust that. But, you know, even Aaron Donald in 2023, you still a really good player, but he wasn't peak Aaron Donald at that point. So now two years later, hasn't gone through a training camp. Hasn't had that wear and tear in his body. And so long, I'm not saying Aaron Donald's not going to come back and be a player who can help the Rams. But, you know, this idea that he wouldn't come back. If he's a hundred percent, he wouldn't come back if he weren't Aaron Donald again. He already wasn't peak Aaron Donald in 2023. Let's see not just the management aspect, but how teams approach it here because I know this. If I've got a choice, I can only double one of those guys. I'm doubling miles Garrett and seeing what Aaron Donald has. Yeah, they're in totally different parts of their career. I'm with you, even if you look at 2023, like he was top 10 in most metrics for defensive tackles, quarterback hits, sax, all of that, but it wasn't like this is far and away. The best defensive tackle in the NFL. I am picturing that poor left guard who like the coaches, you know, going up to him on a Wednesday. Hey, we're just going to see if, you know, Aaron's got it or not. So we're just going to leave you one-on-one against him, Billy. And you know, I don't worry if he beats you and kills the quarterback, Willa Justin, Aaron Donald has just been like this, you know, caged beast for the last two years, not being able to play football. And that first snap is just frothing at the mouth. Billy, these guys are built differently than us. I would not want to be that guard. I saw a fun stat that says since 2017, number one and number two pass rush wins. Miles Garrett and Aaron Donald, including the years that Aaron Donald did not play. So I mean, it's a good problem to have if you're the Rams, right, to figure out. Also, if you're in Donald and someone's like, hey, you haven't planned years, what $20 million and maybe $30 million, it's kind of hard to say no to that, right? And the contract's unique too, because he gets $10 million in a bonus. So that's the base. If Aaron Donald got for bid were to get hurt right out of the gate, everything else is tied to availability. There's $10 million in per game roster bonuses, and then there's $10 million in tiered playoff performance and incentive base with low playtime types of mechanisms here, which also allows the Rams from a cap perspective to carry a lower number than the otherwise would for Aaron Donald. So we know that they've been creative. I mean, they put everything else they did in the course of this also, including flipping their secondary, trading a first for Trent McDuffy, signing Jalen Watson to a big deal here. They put a lot into the past defense, which again brings me back to week one, Christian McCaffer in the 49ers on an unfamiliar terrain in Australia. I'm sure Kyle is going to have a plan. Kyle's as good as anyone in the NFL, like getting people open in the past game. But surely he's thinking we're going in here, and we're going to run the football and try to keep us out of situations where those guys can all get after the pass. You mentioned the other moves. I want to zoom out here for a second, because they have been just the team of the offseason. I mean, the Miles garage, even before the Miles garage trade, it's like, oh, they gave up, go look at what they did with Trent McDuffy with Jalen Watson. They built up their secondary, which was the weakness on the team last year. Then they had Miles care. Now it's Aaron Donald. And if you look at the Fandall, they are now plus 500 to win the Super Bowl. Their odds are twice as good as any other team in the NFL, including the defending champ, Seattle Seahawks, including any team in the AFC. And I saw this note from Ben Fox of Yahoo, he said, there have been 20 teams with Super Bowl odds of plus 500 in the last 30 years. None of them have won the Super Bowl. And if you look at the list, it's like, all right, the Brady Bellichek Patriots, the Mahomes in his prime chief, the Legion of Boom Seahawks, the Rams, great to show on turf. Those are the teams we're talking about that had this kind of hype going into the season. Billy, are you, like, I don't know how am I supposed to feel about them, because I try to do the analytical thing. And I'm like, I don't know. They check every box. I think they're going to have a top five offense and a top five defense. Yes, injuries can happen. They have a great coach. They have a veteran quarterback. I think this is going to work out for them. But is it not that simple when you're this hyped and expectations are so high and it's super bowl or bust and you have a lot of guys on the last year of their contract? Are there more ways this can go wrong that maybe the public is acknowledging? This is not analytical. This is not even good analysis and I'll grant you that on the front end. But I feel like the only way that this can't work out is because things don't always work the way they're supposed to work, right? The way they have this set up, it's like this seems like a no brainer. This seems like they've solved their problems. But then there's an injury or then, you know, Aaron Donald maybe is a little bit slower. Maybe he is a little bit off. Maybe they do try to test him. They don't double him. They go right at him and he has lost a step and it just does work on paper and to your point, analytically, it seems like this should work and they should be the favorites. But it just doesn't always work out that way and I don't even know a better way to explain it than maybe it won't happen just because it won't happen. You know, you can make a comparison to the Dodgers and the way that everybody's just saying well, they've basically bought another world series. It's going to lead to a lockout. It's totally unfair. But football is less predictable than baseball. Not just because baseball inherently a one-on-one game and you can run the percentages. It's the foundation of moneyball, which is like on average, like there's a mean that every player is going to be and over the course of time, the larger sample size like guys kind of are what they are. The NFL is different because of the schematic elements because of the matchup elements and also the fact that one or two injuries can completely derail what your plan was. Sure, if Otani goes down tomorrow and tears as UCL, then we're in a different place talking about the Dodgers, but they still have a really strong team. The same thing were to happen to Matthew Stafford. That immediately would change everything that we know about the Rams. It's a long season. It's a tradition. It's 17 games plus three or four in the playoffs to be able to win the Super Bowl. I do think that they're a really talented team. I do think that on paper, they are as good as anybody in the NFL. They're also relying on a lot of older players, whether that is Stafford or that's Devonte Adams, whether that's Miles Garrett at this point, so the other side of age 30, obviously Aaron Donald coming back is an older player. Again, if you're just looking at this over the course of time, players that age, whether it is a dip in performance or whether it's injuries, those are things that can creep up. But, sir, I'm certainly not wishing any of that to happen on the Rams. It's worth taking it into account as part of the reason you don't see teams go all in on older players very often. A perfect example last year is the commanders. They were in the NFC championship game. Yes, you could say they overachieved in 2024, but they're right there at the end. What do they do? They doubled and tripled down on older players, veteran players, bringing Vaughn Miller, bringing Austin Eccler, bring back Sackers, and a bunch of guys got hurt, paid Terry McClure. And you can go down the list and guys kind of got banged up and all of a sudden they went from being right there at the end to be one of the worst teams in the NFL. Again, somewhere between is probably what they really are. The Rams lore is a lot higher than what the commanders lore was a year ago, but the things can change. I can say this. I don't remember many teams with a target on them quite like the Rams. There are very few teams that we're talking about before we've even played a game. And you mentioned the odds plus 500 at this point. It doesn't happen very often, word, it's just the absolute clear favorite across the league. We'll see the entire country about 25 million people are going to be watching that first game in Melbourne on September 10th, there's September 11th. No, September 10th here, September 11th there. I'm going to be there and I still haven't figured out what day it is. I have no chance of getting that right. Yeah, between now. I'm just going to let you in. It's a first thing I gave in America where I assume most of our audiences. There you go. All right. But shout out, of course, to our Australian audience as well. You know, we don't want Tom's coming to visit you. And that's actually what I wanted to get to next here because we got week one. And in Melbourne, and that's how we say, right, and Melbourne, you're a mark, Melbourne, you know what you're talking about. Is that right? Melbourne. Melbourne. There we go. Okay. Melbourne, Australia, 49ers, Rams. And Tom, I've seen some various reporting here about kind of the different travel plans for these two teams. Now, I don't know that the Rams have said officially what they're doing. It just sounds like basically the gist of it is they're going to get there a lot later and be like, we don't need to spend a lot of time here. We're going to get off the plane. Maybe go to our hotel, play the game and come back where the Niners are like, we're going a week early. We want to get adjusted to the time zone so that when we're ready to play, we're going to be well adjusted to the time there. What can you tell us about this? This is actually a sneaky sort of interesting, very interesting week one story in my opinion. Well, there's no precedent that has never been a regular season game in Australia. So everyone is consulting their sports science people on what's the correct way. And Kyle and Sean, of course, have a long history and they're, you know, have been close through the course of time. They came up with completely different plans. The 49ers who are technically the road team in this game, they're leaving I believe tomorrow. So they are going to spend the entire week. You're crossing. And again, I've learned a lot about this since I'll be over there for Netflix. They're crossing the international date line. So if they leave on Tuesday, they're getting there somewhere in late Wednesday or early Thursday somewhere in there because the distance of the flight and then they'll have the entire week to adjust for the Rams. It sounds like in essence, they're trying to get there the day before and the way that they're thinking of it from from what I've understood is this game. So if you're talking about on Pacific time, it's a 530 Pacific time kickoff 830. It's like a normal night game. So the Rams wouldn't leave a week early if they were going to go play a night game. It's say in New York, right? You might leave 24 hours extra in advance, but you're not going to leave super early. So even though the game is being played at 10 30 AM local time, their thought is we will travel exactly like we were playing a prime time game. So a ride in the city the day before, don't adjust anything, keep everybody's clocks on. And we'll see if that includes any naps or anything else. And so it'll be pitch black when you'd normally be awake. But then they're just going to roll right in like it's a prime time game, play the game, get back on the plane, where we'll really see it is not just in this game, but also after the game. Because remember the 49ers are going to come back. They're going to get back on probably Saturday, Santa Clara time and then have to readjust to the normal time before they end up playing in week two. It is interesting because all the stuff that we've And there's a lot of data on first, it's going to Europe. Whether you're going to London or now Madrid and Paris and Germany, you kind of feel all right. The time changes are similar. This is completely different. And you got two teams that are approaching totally different ways. - Hold on, I have a follow up here. So the Rams, is it just like stay on Pacific time? Like don't change your computers. - Wow, Billy, that's wild. What do you think? Let's take sports science. Let's take all the analytics out of it. You're just in that, in one of those rooms. And like, Billy, you are our champion of common sense. What do you think we should do? We're going to Australia to play a football game. Do you think we should just stay on Pacific time? Go the day before, not change anything. Or do you think we should go a week early? What are you telling Sean McVeigh or Kyle Shanahan? - At first, I thought that the McVeigh plan was a ridiculous plan, but Tom has talked me into it as time was kind of explaining it. I was like, this is absurd. This seems like a really bad strategy. I feel like we're starting the Rams Super Bowl run here, oh and one with getting there the day before, 'cause I mean, I guess they're flying private they have their own plan. They're not going to deal with the regular inconveniences the modern man faces. But you still have a 15 hour plus flight. So you're going to have to get used to that in that one day that you have. But never changing time zones internally in your head. Seems like a great strategy to me. I think that they've said that when you cross time zones, it takes you like that many days for your body to get reaclimated to the difference in time. Like that could just be an old wives tale where it's, you know, if you're crossing three time zones, east coast to west coast, it'll take you three days to get acclimated. But if you never change your internal clock, then I guess there's no reason for them to be there that much earlier. So maybe McVeigh, look, McVeigh is known as a genius, right? So it's Kyle Shanahan, I guess. But McVeigh is like the one that we're like, wow, this guy thinks out of the box. Maybe he actually is a genius in this set. We're not gonna know until the game happens, right Tom? How long does it take you when you've traveled to get used to that time difference? - Yeah. I've never done anything like this. - Really? - You guys will find out firsthand when I am on this show. I believe it's Wednesday morning, Australia time, Tuesday night, U.S. time. Well, we'll see what kind of shape I'm in 'cause it's something like 22 hours of total travel time and then going across whatever is 13 time zones. It's gonna be fascinating for everyone. All I know is there's gonna be about 105,000 fired up and perhaps an e-breated Aussies cheering that thing on. It's gonna be an electric environment. And by the way, a division game, like we could be at the end of the year and going, man, they're separate just by a tie breaker. Where'd that tell ya? Melbourne, in week one, that when we were talking about the travel plans, that could literally turn the division. It's a high stakes type of a game. I know Kyle's made clear, he wasn't a big fan of it. He still is not a big fan of it. But they're gonna try to take advantage of getting over there and maybe even get a few people on their side by being the team that shows up early, even though on paper on game day, they're the rope team. - Do you have a strategy for this 22 hour flight that you're gonna be on? - None, none. I'm thinking through it, put it that way. I think that it's gonna be, I'm gonna try to time. I guess there's like an app you can get that tells you, like now's the time to go to sleep on these really long flights. So probably download the app. I'm just gonna try to reset and sleep at the time that I would want to be sleeping in Australia, even if it's 5 p.m. my time. But no, do I have a plan? No, it's gonna be total seat of the pants, and I'll probably figure it out at the airport on Sunday. - Wait, so does Netflix treat you right? You're gonna have like a nice, like, laying down type seating situation? - I better. - Oh, I have a point. - I have a point. - No, I don't mean that as a shot. I'm pretty sure I will. I just say if I show up on that plane, and I've got like the upright 10 degree decline seats, it's not gonna be, it is not gonna go well for me on that plane. - I mean, for show content purposes, that might be best case scenario for us, right? Where you come on the next day, and you're like in a really crabby mood, 'cause you're like, "What did I do?" This Netflix in this ringer, they didn't give me anything that I wanted. - We're gonna be on live on Netflix at 8.30 a.m. local time. On game day. So, as always, my Friday, over there, Thursday here, I'm up and running. That's what's important. - I can't wait to hear about it. We're gonna have to do a Tom's travel segment next week, 'cause I'm very intrigued. Is he going McVeigh? Is he not changing his class from central time? Is he going Shanahan on their early, let me live? Like the locals live here? That's gonna be very interesting. And I'll just say a fandal put up odds for whether we will be all able to sign on at the same time for that podcast next week, and get out of our time zone screen. I mean, plus 800 or something. I'm expecting when one of us is gonna sign on, two aren't gonna be there, something like that. But you know what? Now that I put that out there, maybe we'll work on it, we'll make sure we figure it out. Very interesting in this travel situation for the Rams and the Niners. All right, let's take a move. - Do you do shows? Like, 'cause you would you watch what, like three or four back to back, like three out of two? - It's so much time to be, you know? That's not gonna kill a lot of show guys, really? - I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to work, get things done, and then tire myself out. And knock myself out. That's my, that's my baseline. And then also, I'll find out that, you know, snakes on a plane is showing or something, and then I'll probably, totally. - You got a wrecked for them, Billy? You sounded like you wanted to, you know, give them a little, hey, why don't you watch knockout season three attires or something like that? I don't know. - I've actually found that. Like, so we had, you know, a couple instances where they sent us internationally, we had a Spotify thing that half the company, you know, went to Sweden, and that was like a long travel journey with connecting flights. And I've found that, like, the streaming of, like, one-hour episodes is, makes it easier than the back-to-back, like, multiple movies, 'cause I don't know why it is mentally, I guess. It's the same thing when you're at home, right? On a weekend where you're trying to get through it, where you can say, like, oh, you know, the Irishman or whatever that movie is called as far as long. I'm not gonna sit down to watch a four-hour movie, but you could binge six or seven episodes back-to-back without even blinking an eye. - I'm convinced that's a parent thing. When you're a parent and you're, it's just easier to, I can't commit to this whole movie, but hey, I can watch this one-hour episode, and then you know what, if I still have time after that, I can watch another one-hour episode. So, yes, that has happened to me. I think that's happened to a lot of parents. I was gonna recommend the show I knocked out a lot of this summer was industry, but Tom, I would say that would not be appropriate for playing viewing. You're probably gonna get looks. You're a new Netflix employee. I would just say, yeah, let's not do that one. I'll try to come up with another one for you. People who have watched industry know what I'm talking about there. All right, let's take a break. We come back. We got more to get to around the NFL. This episode is brought to you by Orgain. Go harder and push farther with Orgain Creatine. It helps improve muscle size, strength and power when combined with a regular exercise and weight training routine. Orgain Creatine is certified with informed choice, which means it's tested for prohibited substances in sports. Upgrade your performance with Orgain Creatine available at Amazon, Costco, Walmart and Whole Foods. This product does not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. All right, we are back here on the ringer NFL show. All right, not a fun story, but a big story in the NFL. Josh, Jacob, Tom, placed on the commissioner, exemplist, running back for the Green Bay Packers. Fill us in, what are you hearing, what does this mean? And what does kind of the 2026 season potentially hold for Josh Jacobs? Well, this was always a possibility, shield with Josh Jacobs, because the way that the personal conduct policy reads, it's if you are charged with the felony, charged with the crime of violence, or if the league based on what it knows has come to the conclusion that you may have committed one of those acts that you may have something that takes place down the line. And that's where Josh Jacobs was, even though initially he was booked on five charges, including felony strangulation. In the end, the local district attorney in Brown County, Wisconsin came back to only charge him with two misdemeanors, misdemeanor battery and misdemeanor destruction of property, the fact that it involved alleged acts that were in the vicinity of something that the NFL eventually could charge him for under the personal conduct policy. The league aired on the side of taking him off the field. The Packers did not know which way this was going to go. Certainly they had an inclination. This was possible, Brian Goodakood's referenced it recently. They made a trade yesterday for Caleb Johnson to get another running back in the room along with Marshawn Lloyd and Chris Brooks, which is not the way I'm sure that the Packers would have wanted their running back room to line up, going into the season. The thing with the commissioner's exemplarist, and of course, the first time this list existed for a long time. But it only was applied to players who were facing personal conduct and investigations in 2014, 2015 with the likes of Adrian Peterson and Greg Hardy, where it became a mechanism to take the player off the field. And once you go on that list, you've now really lost control of the timeline. Any suspension that eventually ends up coming is likely offset by the time that you spend on the exemplarist. But for Josh Jacobs, who was hearing is not until the middle of November, the league could choose not to act until then. We could see whether or not there's something that takes place on the legal front, perhaps a plea deal that allows the NFL to act sooner. We'll see if perhaps they could negotiate a suspension. But if it's a significant enough concern for the league that they're taking Jacobs off the field on the commissioner's exemplarist, just the same as Jonathan Cooper and Denver, we'll also land it on that list. Terry Arnold, the new Seahawks corner, back as the third player. No other players are ending up on the exemplest. But in all those cases, there's a lot of different moving parts. The league historically has waited until criminal proceedings are complete. In part, because there's information that they don't have access to from the police from local authorities until after the legal proceedings are complete. The exemplest is the placeholder that you can place a player on. Again, they could end up negotiating a settlement and a specific number of games for a suspension. It's possible that if there's a plea deal or something else that moves things up, you agree to pretrial diversion. The charges are dropped whenever it might be that this could accelerate. But the packers have to be ready now to not have Josh Jacobs for the foreseeable future. And we'll see when or perhaps even if Josh Jacobs is in a packer's uniform again. Paid suspension, like Tom said, court date set for November 17th, although, as you said, things could change between now and then according to the police report, Jacob's girlfriend, for those who don't know, kind of the details here. Jacob's girlfriend said that he grabbed her and threw her to the ground during an argument. And then the police report said video surveillance corroborated the altercation that the woman described that is per the athletic. So yeah, it's kind of wait and see with Josh Jacobs. I think one important notice to reinforce there from time is that if he's missing games while on this list and then it's suspended, Tom, that's just most of the time it's offset, right? Like, let's say Mrs six games while he's on this list. And then they give him a six game suspension. They would consider that those six games have already been served. But is that like definite all the time? Or that's just kind of how usually this has played out? These things are usually subject now. A lot of the suspensions that have happened recently for personal conduct matters, not the standard, you know, d lies, three games, for instance. But a lot of these negotiated types of suspensions. They are the product of a settlement. That was the case. You know, with Dishon Watson, there were a lot of different things that took place in there. Justin Tucker was negotiating 11 game suspension where he signed on board to that to try to get himself back into the league. That is not yet happened. You just don't know exactly how things are going to play out. It is paid leave in the interim. If in fact, let's say Josh Jacobs were miss eight games and the NFL says, well, the suspension would have been eight. You can come back. You would still have to give up the money for those eight games in all likelihood. But again, there is between the NFL, the NFL players association. And of course, Josh Jacobs is representatives. There's a lot of different things that can be discussed and figured out. Again, the bottom line here is commissioner's exempt is indefinite. And you remember, this came out of the Ray Rice case and not just the the corollary here of the potential existence of video that would show an altercation between Josh Jacobs and this woman, but also that the NFL initially gave a short suspension to Ray Rice. I can remember if it was two games, if I remember correctly. And then when the video came out, all of a sudden they suspended him indefinitely. Well, the federal court judge eventually ruled or forward federal court judge ruled that you can't suspend a player twice. So the NFL's answer to that was we will now just use commissioner's exempt to put the player on the sideline. That part of it is indefinite because it's not a suspension. It is paid leave. Depending how long that lasts. Again, there's probably a negotiation that takes place. But let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Josh Jacobs is facing serious allegations, though reduced charges from what he was initially booked with. This is not a felony case. These are two misdemeanors. It's always possible. Again, that a plea deal could be reached or something could be worked out well in advance of that hearing. In mid-November, at least in part because that may be Josh Jacobs best path to serving a suspension and getting himself back onto the field. But there's still a lot that we don't know about this case. What we do know is barring a major change. The packers can be walking into US Bank, state in Minnesota in week one without one of the most important players on field yesterday. When the news of the exempless came out, I think part of the story was also who wasn't on that list. So Rashad Baitman of the Ravens didn't end up on that list. He had a domestic dispute pack in June and his face in criminal charges. Pukinakua, that's more of a civil case, right? Is that possibly why it is that he wasn't on that list? And then also just because they weren't placed on it yesterday, doesn't mean they still can't be placed on it down the road, correct? It's unlikely that the exempless will be used barring new information, Billy, because the NFL usually does those things at the cut down because of the implications for the roster. The player doesn't count against the roster. It allows you to do it. They don't usually use commissioners exempt, for instance, in the spring, though they would have used it with Terry Arnold had he not, you know, had the sea ox not waited until they did eventually actually sign him formally on Saturday. But in terms of the exempless, usually that's not something to use later, unless there's a material change in circumstances. There's new evidence. There's video players hit with additional charges. They haven't in another instant. Usually it is something that would take place at the cut down. The only one besides the three that happened that I thought was possible was for shot Bateman, because he is facing, I believe, one felony charge and additional charges. Allerick Jackson, I believe that case is resolved. That's a suspension that still could come down. And then actually this in future, he's already served one personal conduct suspension. Certainly that's possibility. With Puka, that's a more layered thing. The NFL has in the past suspended players without criminal allegations. It's one thing that I think a lot of people miss with the NFL in that, you know, I constantly see people and even the comments like the commissioners' exemplest of like, how can the NFL let this happen while they throw these guys out of the league? The NFL in case after case after case, have taken more action against players under the personal conduct policy than the criminal justice system. Ray Rice centered pre-trial diversion and ended up with a two game suspension that became an indefinite suspension and ended his career. You know, Adrian Peterson was something where his his banishment was far more significant than the actual discipline that he would have faced through the criminal justice system. Time after time, Josh Brown was another case. Justin Tucker never had any criminal cases brought against him and served an 11 game suspension that pending if he gets another opportunity this year could be the end of his career. And that's not to, you know, absolve the league. They've certainly made mistakes in the past. They've, you know, obviously admitted that in the case of like a Ray Rice, but time and again, they have taken greater action against players. And the fact that they're pulling Josh Jacobs and Terry Arnold and Jonathan Cooper off the field at a time that they have not been convicted of anything. It's time they are still facing charges. It is one more or three more examples of really how the NFL has approached this, which is we're not going, A, we're not going to wait necessarily for final, you know, jurisprudence here. And two, we are willing, even if a player gets, you know, no jail time or gets, you know, there's, it does not end up being charged or charges are dropped. They'll still take action if they're on own investigation that they do internally reveals conduct that they feel like violated the personal contact policy. Just from a football perspective, the Josh Jacobs thing Tom mentioned probably not going to be there week one, it is interesting to look at this Packers offense. And obviously this is a big pivot. These are serious allocations. Tom outlined it there very well. But from an on field perspective, this is a team that ran the football at the third highest rate last year. I mean, they were really run first team. And they weren't a great rushing team. If you look at really any of the advanced stats, they were quite mediocre. And so that's just one thing to keep an eye on with the Packers now with a very uncertain, running back situation is this the time where Matt LaFleur says we're going to pivot and we're going to allow Jordan love to do more and we're going to throw the football more on early downs. And does that benefit the team or does kind of a, you know, more of that hurt a little bit because obviously he was playing last way the last year, the way he was for a reason. So that's something that's just caught an interesting little side effect here from a football perspective to keep an eye on. And Josh being banged up at the end of the year, too, with injuries was, you know, one of the complications that they had to keep the thing rolling. The biggest factor in my mind of why the Packers were not quite as efficient down the stretch offensively. And they went through a pretty significant dip for a couple games mid season was the lost Tucker craft. Yeah, I mean, after Jordan love, he might be the most important player on that team. To me, he is young Travis Kelsey. He is that good. He is that physical. He's that athletic. He's that fast. He's a mismatched weapon all over the field. And it certainly sounds like he's going to be able to go in week one. We'll see how much he's able to go in the early going. But the fact that he is back, Christian Watson, who they paid me off season, who's a really good player. He's everything the Packers are about. He's just had a lot of injuries in his career. He's back. You know, they made some other changes. If you think about what they did at the receiver position, Robio doves moving on to New England. They traded Don Tadeon Wicks. I know that, you know, the kind of running joke or at times complaint from certain people is, you know, why does no Packer receiver, especially fantasy players? Why does no Packer receiver ever have a thousand plus yards? Why is it always it's because that's how the offense runs. It's designed to get the ball into the open players hands. All of a sudden now, do we Tucker craft Watson, Jaden Reed and probably Matthew Golden? Those are the guys that it would seem the offense. The passing game is going to revolve around. Matt's always going to want to run the football. But if you look in the backfield right now, you have Caleb Johnson, who was a third round pick a couple of years ago, who was available for a late rounder because the, he was probably going to get cut by the Steelers if they didn't trade him. You have Martian Lloyd, who has been hurt literally his entire career so far in the NFL. It's looked good in camp, but you don't really have You know evidence these can be doing the regular season and then Chris Brooks who was like a I mean I can't remember if the Dolphins big cut them or they traded them for a late-round pick But as he was another guy was like a bottom of the roster player That's your backfield Going into the season again. We'll see if Josh Jacobs comes back at some point There's a lot of other factors nothing to do with football then we'll play into that But that is absolutely something that the floor and company are gonna have to take into account as they set the tone For this team going into 2026 with certainly also the hopes that the defense is going to be able to step up to the Challenge early in the season when their best player Micah Parsons is also not available for at least four games Yeah, I like the crowd. I thought craft before he got injured I thought it was the best side in the NFL last year. I'm like this is incredible incredible this guy So yeah, that is a reason for some optimism with the passing game to your point those two backs Lloyd and Johnson and combined 34 career carries. I mean that is You rarely see an NFL backfield go into his season. Obviously these are extenuating circumstances with so little experience At the running back position. So we'll see what happens there Just closing the book there Jonathan Cooper was the other guy you mentioned also placed on that list In court for a rainman on domestic violence charges arrested twice in a seven-day span in June faces felony charge of Second degree assault by strangulation and three misdemeanors including violation of a protective Protection order. So we'll see what happens there as well and again just from an on field perspective in my opinion That's as big of a you know deal as Josh Jacobs is I mean the Broncos team is built on that pass rush. They lose John Franklin Myers in free agency Jonathan Cooper eight sacks 50 pressures last year if you're losing both those guys for a big chunk of this season I do think there's a domino effect with that Broncos defense So that's another situation to keep an eye on all right. Let's take one more break. We'll come back We'll pivot to some more stuff around the NFL J.J. McCarthy O'Dell Beckham, Jr. And some of the trades we saw over the weekend All right, we are back here on the ringer NFL show and I feel like Philly We've probably this offseason talked about J.J. McCarthy maybe more so than any other player. Does that feel accurate to you? He's definitely I think in the top five of players that we've talked about a lot. Yeah high usage rate for the ringer NFL Yeah, J.J. McCarthy, but Tom he stays on the Vikings roster over the weekend What's your understanding of the situation here where their calls was he close to being moved? Is it just a situation where they're not really motivated to just release him or give him up for nothing? Do they actually believe he might still have a future in Minnesota? How do you square this J.J. McCarthy still with the Vikings here? First of all, the Vikings were never going to cut J.J. McCarthy no matter what rumors or what you read on social media That was never in play. They were never going to release the player He's still a young quarterback who has shown flashes. I know all the memes I know all the jokes, but he has shown flashes of at least being able to function But he's not been able to sustain it in large part because of all the injuries that he's had in variety of circumstances That he's been through over the past two and a half years as much as anything The money is an issue with a J.J. McCarthy trade He's due close to five million dollars all of it fully guaranteed over the next couple of years And if you're a team bringing in McCarthy again based on that history You're probably talking about bringing him in as the three Even as the two you're taking a risk because not number one he's got to learn everything He's got to learn his teammates and the scheme and get the rhythm and timing and tempo Like that's a lot You are thinking all right if we're going to bring him in This is a stash him as the number three quarterback and develop him You know Sean Payton did that a couple of years ago with Sack Wilson And it didn't end up working out there He was the number three for the year he went to New Orleans And now depending how they end up shaking that thing out He might be the number two quarterback in New Orleans He just made their 53 man roster It could very well, you know J.J. could be the latest player in the list of them that comes back And not everybody's going to have a Sam Dardle type resurgence and go and win a Super Bowl But your tree lance is like what 70 years in the league at this point And he's developed into a pretty solid back I mean, it wasn't great in the preseason this year It's the number two With the chargers there's no reason the J.J. McCarthy can't be that and potentially more But taking on close to five million dollars guaranteed for a number three quarterback is just not something the teams generally Have an appetite for doing and so the Vikings are committed to that money Releasing them would have relieve them of at most the minimum salary Maybe even less if he was a practice squad guy So they're just going to hang on to them. They also went on to Max Brozmer That was one of the themes coming out of the weekend We'll see how things evolved before we get to week one But we had depending on you look at a four different teams that kept in the initial 53 Four quarterbacks the Browns put Dylan Gabriel and I are so it's really three On the 53 with Taylor and Greene joining Shadour and to Sean Watson But the Eagles kept four if I had to guess I would say that's a temporary Situation they like the rookie Colpate and you can do a lot of different stuff Andy Dalton's there Tanner McKee might be the two Behind Jalen Hertz. We'll see exactly how that evolves You have the Steelers who would their plan if they you know if they didn't find a trade formation Rudolph was to keep them Because Will Aller and as you me drew Aller and Will Howard Our guys who very well could be in the mix six year to start in Pittsburgh depending on the development goals And Mike McCarthy wants both those guys there so they kept four and then the Vikings um, you know with Kyler Murray Carson Wentz who if I'm guessing right now I'd say he's probably the two and JJ is the emergency three Going into week one and then Max Brozmer is essentially a red shirt player Which is what he was supposed to be last year until he got forced into action in a couple of games and beat the Lions with like 50 yards Passing on Christmas and one of the weirder games that we saw the entire year I think that it speaks to The value that those guys have I mean look at two of the teams that traded their quarterbacks did anybody have Quinn yours and Kyle McCord Both getting traded to be number two's and fetching a sixth round pick that was not on my bingo card Going into the weekend, but it's just if you don't have those guys You're always looking not just for who's gonna be the two, but who could we develop? Um, and so teams like the Packers for decades have developed those guys and then traded away and gotten something Miami John Eric Sullivan Jeff Hathley came from Green Bay same thing with Quinn yours If you can get something for him train him away as you see her deep sigh from Billy who might have been on the Quinn yours train They're in Miami Quarterback from this weekend like what at the dolphins frustrating me. I'm sorry I don't mean to cut you off but like you were saying like this is the theme of the weekend You know a lot of teams kept all their quarterbacks like not in Miami. They got rid of everyone They just to say you know what this room not for us. We're gonna trade away our number two We're gonna bring in Kyle McCord and I don't know how you feel about this Tom and I'm wondering I don't like this situation with the dolphins and the Packers where the dolphins hire their GM from the Packers They hire their head coach from the Packers now their backup quarterback is from the Packers one of these things starting Quarterback from the Packers. Yeah starting quarterback from the Packers This is one of those situations where I feel like maybe the dolphins have gotten bamboozled by the Packers where it's like Why are all of these Capable pieces from the Packers just being made available to the dolphins Or is it the dolphins have just been Voiced at all of these pieces that the Packers had we can do without those and like you know what like this guy's available I worked with him. Let's bring this guy down here. Let's bring that guy down here And all of a sudden you have all of the Packers the Packers didn't want Well with the GM and the head coach you can hire whoever you want. Nobody can block you in those roles I think in every Head Coach in GM out there if you look on their rosters in their first year They probably got one or two or three guys who they had before another one of the traders are the weekend Gervin Dexter from the Bears go into Atlanta Reunited with Ian Cunningham who's a first year GM Over there. It's something that's pretty common. You have people who you don't fit your scheme Fitcher culture. Sometimes it's about just getting the right guys in the locker room to kind of be that voice who can carry forward Hey, you remember how we did things in Green Bay. Let's continue to do it I mean if I'm guessing and I haven't talked to to silly about this but I would imagine Kyle McCord might have kind of been his guy in the draft process He might have liked him a lot and so you trade Quinn viewers away for a 20 28 6th which I didn't think they were going to be able to get that For Quinn viewers then you take that pick and you flip it for Kyle McCord to come in. It's just you know It's a weird time just in quarterback development in general in part because so many of the guys over the past several years Have gone back to college and now you're getting guys who have been at two or three or four schools and they're there forever And there's not the depth that you normally have in the drafts and in Kyle McCord one some games at Ohio State And then you know broke records at Syracuse. I mean he does have talent. He looks really good in the preseason finale I got that trade the yours one was a little bit more surprising But Jacksonville also just was not happy with their room. They called on everybody And I mean every person you can think of as a backup quarterback essentially they called they ended up Bringing it a guy in yours who also had a ton of success At the college level and now gets an opportunity to beat a backup to her larts Where does someone like Will Leavis or Sam Hartman? Where would they end up? Wow, you're going deep Sam Sam Hartman the only person in the NFL is better here than me. I anticipate with clear waivers Go back on the commanders practice squad Will Leavis is interesting because There were teams that had interest in and the Titans could have treated them They couldn't have gotten much but they could have treated them back in the spring They wanted to play it out because you never know injuries can happen Maybe you need Will Leavis they get to the end and didn't have um that opportunity I wouldn't be shocked if somebody claims so frankly I wouldn't be as far as the Packers claim them. They've got Tyra Taylor backing up, Jordan Love. I could see Will Love is being a fit in Green Bay. We'll know that maybe even before this podcast posts, but that would make a lot of sense. Will Love is like, listen, he's got a big arm. His like kind of tight, super muscle body is not going to be for everyone. He's obviously a high, strong type of individual, but like go back and you watch his tape, yes. He had some of the wildest turnovers you'll ever see when he was starting for 10 and see. But he also had moments where like, oh, this guy's got ability. I mean, go back to his Kentucky tape, not the last year, but the year before like, he was really, really good. You know, he played, he played for Liam Cohen at Kentucky. Could he also have be added to the Jacksonville world? There's a lot of different possibilities. I do think Will Love is so, you know, quite possible to get claimed if not, but we signed pretty quickly. - Last QBI had a question about Anthony Richardson. Tom, this is what was similar category to JJ McCarthy. I keep trying to get Anthony Richardson to another team. And you know, what you just said about Will Love is, I'm like, if you throw on Anthony Richardson's 25 best plays, I'm like, there's absolutely, absolutely a player here. I love, I like the rushing ability. It might never happen, but he's in the last year of his contract. I can't imagine the price would be that much to acquire him, but he right now stays with Indianapolis. Do you expect that to be the case all season? - I anticipate it being the case, you know, until told otherwise. It really seemed to turn like, yes. Anthony Richardson was hoping to get a first start back in the spring. That just wasn't a lot of trade interest in him. I mean, think about it. He was coming off of an eye injury. The three thing were resistance bands snapped and smacked him in the eye. It's like my worst fear every time I work out that something like that's going to happen. It happened to him and it was a bad injury. It basically took him out for the entire year. So for Richardson, he came back and he played pretty well. And, you know, we'll see how they end up structuring the two and the three with him and Riley Leonard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Anthony Richardson was the two because that also would at least give you the optionality where you're also trying to preserve Daniel Jones, especially in the early going, coming off the Achilles. If there's opportunities, Daniel's a really good athlete. But like, if you want to run something quarterback, run style down by the goal line, you probably want Anthony Richardson doing it, not Daniel Jones. You can only do that if he's the two. But he really kind of brought himself along. He had a really good camp there. And so by the time it got down to cut down, that wasn't even really on my radar. I did not believe that he was going to get traded. We'll see where it all leads. Again, he's, what is he? 24 years old. He's 65 to 40 something, he's a rare, rare physical specimen. And he just hasn't played that much football. Going all the way back and he started grand total of 13 games at Florida, there's still something there. If we've learned one thing from all the quarterback movement in recent years, including Donald, including Baker Mayfield, you don't want to give up too soon on somebody who has the physical ability to do it. Maybe Anthony Richardson's time comes because Daniel Jones has been banged up essentially every year of his career. He might, may well get a start. And we've also seen where, if you come in and it's a spot start for one or two or three weeks, all of a sudden your Mac Jones and everyone's going, why in the world is this guy not a starter? What a curveball, that would be your right. Yeah, Daniel Jones coming off that Achilles and Richardson comes back in and resurrects his career. That would be a fun 2026 storyline. Maybe if we're making some bold predictions here, all right, a couple more topics. Billy, your level of interest in Odell Beckham, Jr. being a part of the New York Times. Are you like, oh, this is incredible, it comes full circle. Are you like, why did you even put this on the rundown? Like, who could possibly care about this? Where, where on that range of interest do you come down here? I'd say out of 10, like five and a half, six. I think it's a nice story, but beyond a nice story in a good, like full circle moment, I think that's probably it, you know? Maybe he goes, he makes like one or two spectacular plays throughout the season. So he can put it next to his all-time catch. I was like, wow, this is great. Imagine if you did that again, but aside from that, I don't know. It's okay. - Okay. Tom, he's not on the base. - I'm amazed. - What about you? - I'm amazed by how Odell is moving. Like, if you just watch him, I mean, yeah. If you had a side by side of him in 2014 and now, I'm sure you could see the differences, but like, for a guy who has barely played football over the last like five years, it's pretty impressive. 2021, you remember Odell with the Rams in that Super Bowl. He's the best player on the field until the knee, which he had had partially torn ACL for like half the year, fully tears, doesn't play for a whole year. Comes back to Ravens, give him a one-year contract, up to 18 million, comes back, isn't much of a factor there, then goes to Miami. That doesn't go very well and is up getting himself released, doesn't play again. I mean, there's no like corollary here with the guy who's had a player who was first three years in the NFL might be the greatest three years we've ever seen from a wide receipt. Look at the statistics. 2014 through 2016, even if you take out the one handed catch and certain highlights, like just the production he had was off the charts. And then obviously he goes to Cleveland and that goes sideways and he goes to the Rams where he's great and then hurts the knee. There were so many different things that took place with Odell, the fact that he's here and he seems to be in a good place right now. Like I'm just, I'm impressed. Honestly, Odell seems like he's grown up some. You know, over the course of time, there's a lot of emotional stuff with him as a young player with the Giants. He seems to be getting past that. He's gonna have his old numbered sounds like back because they cut Jalen Highlett. So we'll be back in number 13. Giants fans can bring their jersey out. I mean, Giants can only kept five receivers. They also kept Darius Slate and there were rumors about that. Link neighbors coming off of his injury. We'll see what he can do. But it's not just that Odell is on the initial 53 man roster. It's that he's doing at this stage of his career after all the time he's missed. And by the way, he might be playing significant snaps right out of the gate. If he starts making plays, even if it's a couple, I mean, I think it's one of the great comeback stories that we've seen just knowing everything that he's been through physically and otherwise over the past five or six years. - I clicked on the athletic story on Odell Beckham, Jr. and it does show a little video clip of him being interviewed in the locker room. I didn't recognize it him at first. He looks so different than he did in his early years. - He's face routine, man. - Yeah, he's got some lotions or something. - I need to know what the skin care is, Billy. - On Odell Beckham, Jr. I was like, is it the facial hairs? It is hair is a different color, but he was looking great there. So maybe we can get to the bottom of that. But Tom's right, I was gonna say this 'cause I think we're really growing our young audience. I don't see any other metrics, but it just feels that way. (laughing) - Feel the same way. - Why not? - We'll say it sounds good. - They're like TikTok, Reels or the Ring or NFL show. Those are usually what the content comes down to. Go watch YouTube clips of Odell Beckham, Jr. 2014 to 2016, I would put up those three years against any three-year start for a wide receiver I've seen in my football field in life. Like, he was incredible. I'm just like, this is a surefire haul of Famer. This might be the best wide receiver I've ever seen in my life. And then obviously Tom outlined. It didn't all go according to plan after that, but he was truly incredible to watch when he flipped over. - Let's say you know, like our conscious football watching time, which I think for all of us is like, over under 30 to 35 years, right? - Somewhere in there, like you actually remember football. - Yeah. - Greatest starts by a wide receiver to an NFL career. Randy Moss is absolutely up there. I think Justin Jefferson is up there, just, I mean, he's broken every record in terms of what he did, three-year-one, three-year-two, three-year-three and all those things. And Odell's in that category too. I mean, he was that good. And again, there were a lot of those things, you know, fighting the kicking net and then proposing to the kicking net, various meltdowns that he had and, you know, getting in little, you know, tussles on the field, getting into players, get some self-traded Cleveland tears his knee there, comes back, then he gets himself cut, gives up money, goes to the Rams, tears his knee again. Like, there's so many parts of the Odell story. Here he is in, you know, what, 12 years after he got drafted and he's back with the Giants. I just think it's, it's an unbelievably cool story. He might end up being a footnote to what is going to be a, you know, listen, a challenging season for a young Giants core. And maybe Odell, as wild as it is to say, might be coming back as the guy who's kind of seen it all. And he knows how this story goes. And maybe we can be a little bit of a grounding force to some of those young and personal teammates. Like, like, I'm Link neighbors, so I'm sure at times when he's not getting the footballs felt the same way that Odell wants to. Yeah, I thought it was just a little cute little, you know, training camp story, but here he is. He made the team. He's on the team there with the Giants building. I feel like there's a chance we get an Odell Beckham Junior game this year though, right? Like, he has one more boy with the chamber. That'll be fun. Yeah, we, like, look back at the season. Like, oh, the Giants, you know, they brought in Harbaugh. It didn't live up to what we thought of the man. We had that Odell Beckham Junior game. And that was fun. Also for one Odell catch. Also for one like crazy Odell catch. Okay. And that alone would impress me. Yeah. I didn't touch down or something like that would be, that would be a pretty cool deal. All right. The only trade I think we haven't touched on here. Broderick Jones offensive tackle. Former first round pick. Steelers send Jones and a fourth to the Cowboys for a third and a sixth. Jones started 38 games in three seasons for Pittsburgh. Obviously did not work out. Had a neck injury time. What do you make of that move? Cowboys acquiring Broderick Jones. Well, first of all, that was part of the theme of the weekend, which was there were 15 trades. Okay. They were on the wire for cut down day. Eight of them were offensive line. Everybody was trying to find an offensive line. And so if you had an able bodied, whether it was a tackle, a guard, there were a bunch of centers. If you had somebody, you were gonna cut like you were able to move them to another team. Broderick Jones was the biggest one. Not just 'cause he was a first-round pick, but because the compensation, I get it for Dallas. Tarant steel. I know that just based on the public comments from Shotty and others is not had the best camp You've got some other moving parts and Jones is a talented player who does upgrade your depth at that position Whether he's the swing tackle whether he eventually ends up starting some games for you on talent It does make sense for Dallas for Pittsburgh. I mean remember he had a pretty serious injury last year It was a neck injury and you just don't know when guys come back from those whether it's physically whether it's mentally Is he going to be all the way that same player again? And so for the Steelers they essentially they get another top 100 pick out of it plus a sixth round You guys they give up the fourth be get a third and you get a sixth out of the deal I thought that it was it was really good value They also got a pick for Caleb Johnson who again he was gonna get cut so for the Steelers a team that I think everybody looks at Is like this transition year and how good are they actually going to be they cut down days show and they they've got some depth on That roster and also the new coach and my McCarthy coming in he's gonna turn this thing get a looking a little bit more Like what Mike wants it to look like it's really not a bad roster. You look at it at Pittsburgh where I'm not sure You know obviously not sure about the quarterback situation, but I look at other areas of the roster like I like the old line I like the pass rush quite a bit. I think the wide receivers. I can't so much hell for saying on Bill's podcast in my ringer debut a couple of weeks ago But I thought the Steelers could be a top 10 offense and like I was getting messages a week about that. I don't Think it's crazy like McCarthy and you can cross check me a fact check me on this shield But I believe 18 seasons as a head coach. He's had a top 10 offense either 12 or 13 times So perpetually he has a really good offense now year one at times is bumpier before they get that thing rolling here But he's got a guy in Aaron Rogers. He doesn't need to learn the scheme. He's got back one of his favorite running backs in Rico Doudal to combine now with Jalen Warren the receiver group is better with you know DK Michael Pittman junior coming in They're hoping Roman Wilson takes the step forward. I don't think that it's outland is to say this could be and you know Darnell Washington the unique threat that he is Mike McCarthy's like been one of the ones he was like trying to bring back You know the tight ends and fullbacks in Green Bay these to keep like five or six or seven tight ends and fullbacks on the roster because he'd Use all these different personal groups. I think they're going to be better than everyone thinks It's not going to be the Aaron Rogers throwing off balance 50 yards down the field But he more like that part of it is not going to be a significant factor if at all But in terms of the ability just to get the ball out to these playmakers hands that they're faster They're more athletic they got the guys are a better scheme fit like the Steelers offense will be better than everyone thinks even if They're not top 10 in McCarthy's first year Billy up Billy when I heard that I'm like well Tom just come in and he's gonna be firing off takes Yeah, left and right here. Now I didn't message you Tom and say you're a dummy. Why are you doing that? I thought it was your burner shoe. No, that wasn't me But I was like the thing with Mike McCarthy's offense is I feel like his quarterback situation has been very good Most of those seasons whether it was Brett Farber Aaron Rodger in his prime or Dak Prescott And I just look at this quarterback situation. I can't get there with the offense I like you going out on a win maybe you'll be really rubbing in our face when we get to December told you guys top 10 Offends everyone made fun of me. I actually like the other side of the ball quite a bit where I've got him as a top five defense I think they're gonna really exceed expectations there. Now that's not as hot as of a take Billy You know, so I am coming in a little cool here like I think you think the Steelers defense is gonna be pretty good But that's what I think there the chance to be a little bit like Tom did come on. What are you scared of? Well, no, I'm not picking them to make the playoffs the all my face season prognostications are my hottest Preseason take is that I don't think the Patriots are gonna make the playoffs But we got time you get to work. That's just gonna be a little tease. Are you guys doing on not But are you guys doing postseason picks on the preview episode later this week? I was thinking that maybe we could do that when the cat was away You know what I mean? Like maybe the day that you're flying out or something we sneak in some like postseason predictions or something You know, or maybe we can make them and Tom can make fun of us. Let's see. We got we got some planning to do Yeah, like that. Let's finish this episode Billy. Do you see this Tom tweeted out his fantasy draft and this guy is old school I mean they got the board they got the stickers you walk up I don't know if you've ever done a draft like this I have you pick off the sticker from the sheet of paper you put it up To your team and he must have been feeling kind of good about it because he put out all the results So we see him we see all the other teams and he said who you got so I thought we know where his Podcast co-host we should be able to critique this. How do we think Tom actually did With his team do you want me to read the team off real quickly here? Let me set it all right, I have been posting that every year because Always had that we go to it's bunch of my high school buddies go to our friend Ryan's cabin He has us for the weekend and you make it and then over dinner all post The board and then we just read the tweets out loud of the people like making their picks this team sucks This team is good and it's fun So this is a keeper league where you can keep two keepers in their prior round draft slot But anybody you took for round four later counts as a round four pick and it is a non-ppr leak So when you're looking at the picks is not like I passed over certain people like no They might have been a fourth round keeper and I didn't have access to that player But you can read read read you can read my team. Okay, and then you can read if you whatever team you like You can read that team. Okay. How many times can you keep a player? You give a player twice the first time it's the prior year round The second time they have to be your first round keeper if you're gonna keep them all right Billy So here's the team I don't know why I'm getting specifics and taking notes on this But I don't know. I like it. It's important. It's important context like you have to know all this works All right, so Tom kept Christian McCaffrey that was in the first round. That was a keeper Did you get him second round last year? This is your second year of him This was my I traded for him at the tail end of the season two years ago I was out of it tonight made I think he was yeah, he was hurt that year So I acquired him when he was on injured reserve in exchange for I think it was Derek Henry Literally as a unplanned for next year thing as a keeper. He was your fourth rounder And then this year he becomes your first round. No, he was the first because he'd been a first the previous year So you can't as my first round pick two years in a row. All right, so McCaffrey then he goes Brock Bowers Bonte Smith then he keeps where she writes in the fourth round and then the remainder of the picks jadairian price Christian Watson Carnell Tate Michael Wilson Chuba Hubbard Matthew Stafford Aaron Jones McCuy Lemmon Zach Charbonne We're still doing kickers here. Wow Jason Myers. We're still doing defense is too old school Pittsburgh Steelers who I just talked up our times defense All right, we're aligned. So let me quickly take you through the strategy And then I want to hear the grades of the team strategy here. I wanted Stafford to be the quarterback He was the number one point score based on our point scoring system last year And I knew he wasn't going to go ahead of the Lamar's of the world So I could probably get him what I get him like the 11th round or something. I got him very late and round 10th round So I got him very late in the draft. So that was that was I thought good strategy My less good strategy was all right So I had the McCaffer into snake draft. So I had a late late first pick. So I was keeping McCaffer so I ended up with an early second I took Bower's there because it was either Bower's or Drake London My theory was that my theory was this I thought if I took Bower's In the second it would trigger a run on tight ends that then you would have the Tremac Brides, Colston Lovelins, the world come off a bunch of tight ends before it came back around to me Pushing down the running backs receivers. I want it No tight ends were taken again until the fourth so that part of the strategy feel I still almost had Drake London come back to me in the third By the way you went one pick ahead. I ticked up on taste smith still had Rishi who if you look at his career Just based on a pure like when he's actually on the field basis is still one of the highest per capita scores out there So I felt good about that as a fourth round keeper all right Give me a grade and then I want to hear what team you think or how you would rank these teams What do you think Billy? Well my big note was the Brock Bower's thing But you just explained that situation. I was gonna say you could have waited a little bit on him You still almost got Drake London, so it's still almost worked out for you It was one pick away You also were talking up Tucker craft a little while ago and I looked to see where he went and he went like seventh round So you could have settled for him later on If I'm not just I think the Matthew Stafford getting him in the tenth round after Jackson Dart After you know some of these other quarterbacks were taken. He's the defending MVP is is a steal I don't know how it is that they allowed him to fall to you in the tenth round. So like that's great. I'm kind of looking around Is this John the second pick in the draft here G G I A and the G John yeah, John Marco Yeah, John taking Drake May as the second quarterback off the board in the fifth round here before Lamar before Joe burrow That's that seems questionable to me does John have any ties to New England? What what was he thinking there? He does not but I remember standing up to go back and look at the board because I by the way This happened on Saturday. It's been set that Saturday for years This is the first time cut down was on Sunday. So half the draft. I'm on the phone trying to break actual NFL news What is it like this weekend? By the way, because this is very inconsiderate. I'm interested in this too. Yeah It was it was nonstop I almost didn't go to the draft. They're from Pat didn't show up last year and then he caught 65 days of hell for not showing up. He got to show us participating in the moment list is not ideal So I left at 5 a.m. on Saturday to get there worked the entire day was bounce back and forward did the draft and then left at 5 a.m. to go back on Sunday morning to make sure like that was the least likely time that I was going to miss news. So I did, I was strategic about it, yes, I was also surprised that Drake may win ahead of Lamar Jackson because I was, I had half of my, when Lamar was still sitting there in the fourth to take him, but again, I stuck, I stuck to my guns on, um, letting staff hurt fall to me like I thought he would. Can I ask you one more question about this weekend and how things play out for you? Cause I was wondering this and I've always wondered this about insiders and news breakers. So you broke a number of stories yesterday, you put out a number of trades, number of releases, Aaron Donald coming back, et cetera, right? But for some of them, you put it out with the graphic. So you have here's a thing and it says breaking news, Tom Policero says the ringer Netflix is on there, right? I've always thought as a casual who's not in the industry, it seems like we're adding a step here that's slowing down and could let you get scooped here for throwing in a picture here. I mean, presumably you know that this is going to happen, you're waiting for it to happen. So you have all of these pictures just lined up, waiting to put it out, but still just that adding it. I feel like we're adding a millisecond there where you could get scooped by someone. I have all of the tweets of the things that I know or think are coming in my drafts. So the photos already there is the tweet is typed out. Sometimes you got to fill in the team, but post it and it goes. So there's not a lot of delay there. There are times like the broader Jones trade where that one I was not, I was not prepared. Thank you. I was not prepared for that going into the weekend. So I hadn't requested a graphic. I knew that a couple of teams had called. I didn't think that it was going to happen. And then I asked for a graphical, yeah, no one's no one's working at six o'clock on Saturday in late August. So it's like, okay. There's no graphic on this one, but no, it's actually it's a pretty, it's a pretty clean process. The only thing that's a problem is the previous week, what I broke the case on booty trade, which was on the flight to the Netflix bootcamp to get ready for this season. And so I get the text that the that the trade is done. And here's the terms. I try to open my drafts and they won't open on the crappy claim why fine. So now I have to retype the whole tweet and find the graphic again and put it in. Just like the whatever 60 to 90 seconds that either a I could have gotten beat or B I could have like put the wrong team in which has happened on a couple of occasions. The most notorious one was the linebacker, Kiko Alonzo, who was traded like three times. I'm pretty sure this was the time not graphics or if we're going to be treated from it. There was no graphic on this was pre graphics graphics was a relatively recent development. Yeah, that's new. There was Kiko was being traded from the dolphins to the saints. The day after the dolphins had traded Laramie console to the Texans. So I get the text Kiko has been traded to the saints and somewhere like in the deep recesses of my subconscious, I'm thinking about the Laramie console trade and I type trade Kiko Alonzo to the Texans. The moment I hit send and I see a pop up on tweet deck, I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. So I copy you real quick, copy the text, you know, control C. I delete it, paste, control V, send it again, but I cut off the first letter. So now it just says raid Kiko Alonzo to the saints. So I copy it again, delete again, get it right, put it out, trade, I get it, like everyone is screenshotting the previous two attempts. What team is it? Like those are once in a while, that was probably, I don't know, seven years ago or something, but like you just don't forget the absolute epic failures. I have nightmares about not like my fingers not working trying to type it or I mess something up and I can't delete. I will literally wake up at 3 a.m. having a nightmare about putting a putting news on social media. In your nightmares where your fingers stop working are the other insiders like pointing and laughing at you or you're getting bullied, like what's going on? No, very realistic. I'm like in my basement and just like fat thumbs and I'm just tired to get absolute gibberish. You're like in your dreams, you're not supposed to be able to read either, but somehow I know in my head that what I'm looking at doesn't make sense. That's usually what it is. And in case I have one where I'll wake up and I'm like, did I actually get a text last night that that happened? I'll like check my text and be like, no, that was just a very, very vivid dream. So yeah, it's a totally normal life. Good, good question. Billy, I feel like there's so there's a segment here inside your corner or something, you know? Yeah. Who is your winner? I like your team time. And listen, if I thought your team sucked, I would tell you that would make for better content here. But my daughter just had her fantasy draft yesterday and we targeted some of the same. We took hours early. I have no issue with you taking hours there. He could set the record for most receiving yards by a tight end. He's got Clint Kubiak. Look at what he did with JSN last year. Of course, it's so clearly the number one target there and they could get mediocre quarterback play. I like that one. I like Devonte Smith. I think he's going to have a big year. And then if I had one piece of fantasy advice for the audience that you can take it or leave it. I'm not a fantasy guy. You can listen to the ringer fantasy show. Jodarian price. I mean, I want this guy on all my teams. I don't understand why he's not going higher. So you got Jodarian price. So I like your team quite a bit, but I will say this. I don't think it's the best team. Yeah. I think it's the second best team. Cousin vs. My guy, Holland. Holland. Wow. My thought. Holland had a good team. Josh Allen, Kenneth Walker, Deandre Swift, Bucky Irving. It's like those teams that are key NFL teams that are keeping the four quarterbacks. It's like, if you don't have the great running back, just take a bunch. Two of them are probably going to pan out. He got JSN. He got Devonte Adams. He got Jade and Reid Billy. You pointed out. He waited till the seventh and got Tucker Kraft. He got the Rams defense for team just talked about. He's taken flyers on the guys who could explode, Matthew Golden, a nice flyer there. I would never take a kicker before the last round, but he got Brandon Arbery. So now I'm looking at the roster like, all right, that guy's going to make 60 yard kicks. So yeah, you might have to maybe get some people in your league to try to trade with Holland, weaken his team, maybe get personal, do whatever you need to do. I think that's your number one competition. Holland is also the guy who brings the orders, the draft kit with the name stickers every year. He's also almost always the last person to arrive. So essentially the draft is held up until Holland walks in the front door and they're like, okay, now we can do this. All right, there you go. I guess I'm team Holland, Billy. That's where we are. I think JL had a nice little draft for being the last pick also. You know, Jamar Chase, Austin Dentekam, Jalen Waddle, Tet Macmillan, Joe Ferrell. Scottabos is a stay away for me. My daughter's like, sure, we shouldn't take him. He's the best available. I'm like, no. I don't think he's going to play. I don't know how much football Scottabos can be able to play, but you know what? I lose all the time. Anyway, so there you go. Check out Tom's draft. You can check it out. It's on his Twitter account, but he's got a lot of news on there as he just sort of outlined. So you might have to scroll down a little bit. That's okay. Look at the draft. I never won that league, by the way. Just to be clear. You're in here. Twenty two, I believe, of the league. I've been the runner up several times. And they really expect you to win it because you are the NFL insider, right? There's 10 people in the league, only two people have never won it. I'm one of them. Part of my weakness and you see it in that draft is I'm always like thinking, so here's stuff about like the rookies. I'm always drafting guys one year ahead. So I'm hoping this is the year, Carnot Tate, Kyle Lemon, Jadairian Price. Somebody make me look smart. I'm trying to get that fourth year keeper value and somebody's a rocket in year one. That's the plan anyway. You know too much is probably the problem and you owe them some picks. Yeah. We're going to have to try a fantasy league since Sean Alexander running over everybody in like 2003. Sean Alexander pre-stulms one of the two. Yeah. Those are good years. A big trophy that you guys carry around, pass along from person to person or anything or now. There's not a trophy in that league. There's a trophy in my other league, the the dynasty leagueer. Real keeper league, salary cap league. It's like a whole, it's like the Heisman trophy. It's huge. Also never won that one. I'm not good at fantasy. This might be a different skill set. This might be your time. I could feel it. It's a year of change. It could be a year of change for Tom's fantasy team. Sorry. Everyone, good luck with your fantasy drafts. In the next week here, I know a lot of them are happening this weekend. Thank you to Tom Pellicero. Thank you to Billy Gill, Christopher Sutton for producing Stefano Sanchez on video and additional production supervision by Connor Nevin's and Arjuna. Tom Gopal, we will be back later this week on the ringer NFL show 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and present in DC Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem called 1 800 gambler or 1 800 my reset call 1 888 7 8 9 7 7 7 7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit md gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. 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