A working-class midterm mandate

Republicans have had a bad week, like historically so. Blue wave crashing through Republican strongholds. The blue wave is still growing. This is an earthquake. It was a Watergate-level repudiation. The results made clear that just about everyone is over Donald Trump's administration. But does that mean everyone is now necessarily Team Blue? Right now, people like the Democratic Party more than the GOP, but there's not necessarily an agreement on what Democrats stand for and what they should prioritize. Tackling affordability, holding Trump accountable, regulating AI. If all Democrats had a good night, what are the lessons that we should take from this year's midterms? This week on America Actually, what should the Democrats stand for now? Let's dig in. Support for the show comes from Americans United. Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an organization that defends freedom without favor and equality without exception. 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Earlier this year, we did a midterm study guide episode that laid out a number of issues that we thought could matter most come election day based on our reporting. Lowering costs, immigration, AI and data centers, the U.S. support for Israel. So today, I wanted to take a look back at those issues now that we have a clear idea on how the electorate voted. Joining me for that is the governor of Maryland, Wes Moore. Moore cruised to a 30-point victory on Tuesday, and he's rumored to be thinking about launching a 2028 presidential bid in the coming months, which I definitely wanted to ask him about. Here's my conversation with Governor Moore. Governor Westmore of Maryland, thank you for joining America Actually. I appreciate your time. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Last time we talked was back in 2024. You were on my podcast, The Run-Up. We talked about black men and kind of the party's possible struggles that materialized a little bit in that election. Then we're talking now under a much different context. It's a great week to be a Democrat. I've been asking people, what's their favorite term for this? Blue wave, blue nami. Do you have any puns for us? Nah, because I'm not sure if any of them apply. Okay. I'm interested in that. Well, then how would you describe where Democrats are after what were a slew of victories on Tuesday? Well, so I think Democrats had a really good night. And I think, you know, we need to give credit where credit's due for that. And I think if you look at what happened when it came to, for example, the black vote, and particularly in the post-Calais world, particularly at a time when we were watching voting rights being yanked back, generational voting rights being yanked back. If you're watching what happened with Latino, Latino voters and the shift with Latino voters, that in many ways it was a black and brown wave. You saw, you know, black and brown communities that really took control of our own destinies in a really powerful way. Is there any result that surprised you the most or you would point to as the one that kind of led you to that takeaway? You know, it's funny because, you know, I remember a week before I was talking to my wife because I was campaigning hard for a lot of these candidates, both for ourselves. And I'm very grateful. Um, that we, we won by, by, by 30 points, 30 points in our race. Uh, but what we did a lot of campaign for Keisha Lance bottoms of Georgia. We were up in, in Wisconsin for David Crowley. We're in, in Nevada for, for Aaron Ford. You know, we supported, uh, Gina Hinojosa down in Texas. And I remember talking to my wife the week before the election where I was like, I don't want to say it out loud. Cause I don't want to be disappointing or disappointed, but I, I think this could actually be much bigger than people even think. We came within two points of Angie Nixon for sure. Being a Senator from Florida, right? We came within a point and a half of David Jolly being the governor of Florida. Like we came close in a lot of races that, um, that I think also it just helps to show that the conventional wisdom that people had about where do we go? Who do we talk to? You know, where do we put our resources? I think one of the big things was all that. Go ahead. Blow that up because there's a whole new day in the way we need to think about, uh, you know, our work going forward. I mean, I was going to ask this later, but since you brought it up, I mean, the Angie Nixon result was super interesting to me. We had her on the show and she was someone who was pretty open that she felt like she had not received a kind of backing from establishment party, uh, that she wanted, that she wanted to DSCC spending more money there. Was that a missed opportunity for the party to not, uh, kind of prioritize Angie Nixon or David Jolly down in Florida? Yes, absolutely. But, but, uh, the thing is, it wasn't even just about like a cycle. This has been generational. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned, uh, some of the victories for Keisha Lance Bottoms in Georgia, uh, Aaron Ford in Nevada. There's not five black governors. You were the only serving black governor. There's a couple more. You have Byron Donalds in Florida, David Crawley in Wisconsin. I mean, y'all got enough to start a group chat now. Like, uh, is that, tell me about the, the significance of those victories and, and are you going to start it? You already, you already know. And listen, um, I, I'm going to tell you, I, I had a conversation. Um, one of, one of my, you know, one of my mentors is, is, uh, is Deval Patrick. And Deval came to my inauguration. Former governor of Massachusetts. And, and so before me, there was, there was Doug Wilder in Virginia, the OG, right? First black governor elected in this country. You had Deval Patrick in Massachusetts was number two. And then he can, and then Deval came down, from my inauguration to be number three. So in 250 years, we've had three African-Americans ever elected governance in this, in this history of this country. And so I remember the night before my inauguration, I'm talking with Deval. And he said to me, he said, um, do you know one of my only regrets is that I was number two. I didn't start thinking about number three until after I left office. And I always made a pledge. I was like, I will never let that happen. And we worked hard to make sure that I'm the nation's only black governor right now. And I don't only want to give away that title. I never want anyone to ever have that title again. Yeah. Ever. And we are going to go from having three black governors elected over 250 year history of this country to come January 10% of our nation's governors will be black. This is also going to help to fundamentally change. The way this country thinks about how your leadership should actually be reflective and representative of what your population actually looks like. I mean, I also want to get to the issues when we looked at the landscape for issues really stuck out throughout the year affordability, AI and data centers, immigration, and I would say Iran war and kind of our connection to Israel as part of that. We actually did a study guide episode discussing those issues leading up to the election and we saw so many of them play out in the results. So I'm going to go through some questions. Let's start with the affordability because I did seem to be the issue of the midterms lower and cost is the top priority for voters and frankly where they penalize Trump the most when we think about the Democratic Party, though, what's the single biggest thing Democrats could do to address folks cost of living concerns? I mean, actually move fast to fix the things that do something, you know, saying like no more studies, no more 10 year, no research reports, you know, saying like, like move fast. So there, for example, in Maryland, we've done permanent reform to be able to speed up affordable housing, right? And I did not need a 10 year research paper to tell me that we have an issue with affordable housing inside of this state. So we did, we did, and I've done both executive orders and, and legal changes around saying, get more housing, get more housing around transit, do more transit oriented development. You know, if it's state owned land, don't tell me why we can't do something. It is state owned land. You know what I mean? Like things like childcare, the reason we made the largest investments in childcare in our state's history is because it is insane when you're watching the fact that people are spending 30 and 40% of their paychecks on childcare and knowing how much that's actually going to impact, you know, impact your, your economy and, you know, being able to be the first state in the country that banned surveillance pricing in supermarkets. So there are things that we can do right now to be able to address it. But I also don't think that there are things that we can do. that we need Washington to be able able to do and actually check this president on as well. Because, you know, for example, gas prices, there's no governor that can impact gas prices. We just need to stop fighting stupid wars. You know, there's no governor that is impacting, you know, national energy policy or national grocery prices. What we need to do is stop allowing illegal tariff policy to happen. So I do think that there's things that Washington folks and Washington Democrats have got to do, and they need to move fast on. But I also think that we don't need to wait for them to be able to put things in place that we know that actually work. I mean, how's what you mentioned? Health care seems a big part of the affordability discussion. Every Democrat seems to be for universal health care of some sort right now. But it's not really clear what that means in 2026. I remember back in the last Democratic primary, a lot of folks were signing up to that Bernie Sanders single payer health care bill. I wonder what universal health care means to you. And does that government provide insurance? So I think that if you look at what we've done here in Maryland, I mean, you know, we've been doing a lot of things. We've been doing a lot of things. We're actually working with our hospitals. Our hospitals have a universal budget. And then our hospitals are then able to make sure that people are getting the care that they need that is based on results and needs and not based on what type of procedure that they are getting. And so I think there's a really important model that we need to be able to take on with that. And I do think that, you know, that for me, this issue of health care is not a negotiable. Health care is something that this is a fundamental and a basic human right. And government does have to have, you know, does to have a role in what that can look like and how it's administered and how we're working with our hospitals and our medical centers and facilities. But I don't think that there should be a choice between do people have health care or not. That should not be a choice. Got it. I mean, I want to just keep going on affordability. The left tells a kind of clear story on the economy. Corporate capital and driving up cost of living. They're the clear villain. And so taxing them is their policy engine. I sometimes feel a less clear story from those who might be a little more to the center. I mean, if you could describe who the villain is in the Westmore story of why costs are so unaffordable for Americans, who is that? Who should I blame? I think there's a lot of folks you can blame for this. Why is my McChicken six dollars? You know, like, who should I blame? I think there's a lot. There's a lot of blame and there's a lot of blame to go around on this. You know, one is I think you are watching this ridiculous amount of grifting that has taken place within Washington, D.C. and a ridiculous amount of grifting that's taken place within this administration. I mean, I think it is absolutely it is absolutely criminal that we are watching a federal administration that is willing to now personally pocket two billion plus dollars while people are getting kicked off of health care. Like, I just I don't understand how there is not an absolute outreach and uproar. About what is going on there. But I don't think they're the only ones to take the blame. I do think we still also have an issue with these with the with with with corporations that are willing to bleed profits out of people who barely are who are living paycheck to paycheck. So I think in that case, there's a collection of villains that we need to make sure that we are holding accountable in that process. You know, last one. I mean, it seems like a lot of the Democrats affordability message came out of Mom Donnie's win in twenty twenty five really reached the sort of, I think, showed the party that focus on cost of living might be a good electoral message. But he also has been pretty clear about some other stuff, you know, supports a millionaire tax. I remember him telling me the one thing he would never budge on is the belief that billionaires shouldn't exist. I want to pose that question to you. Do you think billionaires should exist? Yeah, I don't have I lose no sleep over the amount of billionaires in our society. Some people do. I know. But I do lose sleep over the amount of children that are growing up in poverty. Got it. And I think that that that those who have have a responsibility to support and uplift and create pathways for those who do not. Fair. And I and I think about, you know, for example, you know, here in our state where we actually cut taxes for the middle class, we cut taxes for military veterans. And I did ask wealthy Marylanders that I raise their taxes. And I said, you need to invest more to make sure that we're doing things like we're doing, which is having the fastest, you know, public safety turnaround story in the United States of America, having math and reading scores in our public schools now at five year highs. And I did ask wealthy Marylanders to be able to invest a little bit more to make sure we can get those kind of results. 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Because when families save on the things that they need, they can spend more money on the things that they care about, like pizza nights, birthday parties, or new basketball shoes for a reward for good grades. Because when Walmart says, save money, live better, they actually mean it. I wanted to move on to Iran. You served in Afghanistan and are a veteran. You know what war costs personally. We heard from voters all year that really felt that the Iran war was Trump's war. I know Democrats have called it a war of choice. When we think about this incoming Democratic Congress, should they continue funding a war that Americans, mostly found, is not in their interest? No. And they shouldn't have funded it in the first place. I mean, I've heard the argument that that leaves soldiers behind. No. No, because we're talking about a president who unilaterally went to war without even asking Congress for authority. The president does not have the authority to just wage war by himself. That is something that the Constitution lays out, that Congress actually is the only one that has the authority for that. And truthfully, this Congress has been so caught up in the war, in the aura of the president of the United States, that they have not been leaders. They have been cheerleaders. Yeah, fair. And so part of the issue is this Congress needs to be held to account. And that's exactly what I think happened on Tuesday. But I think about my experiences, right? Where I served in Afghanistan. I led soldiers with the 82nd Airborne Division. And we went over there with a, you know, what we believe was an understanding of what was at stake, and what needed to happen, right? That this was about the Taliban. And the Taliban could not be in charge of Afghanistan after 9-11. 20 years later, trillions of dollars spent, thousands of American service members dead. And do you know who's in charge of Afghanistan right now? Yeah, same folks. The Taliban. Yeah. It's the same folks. And so we are dragging ourselves again into another forever war. And the problem is, is that we have a Congress who is not actually asserting its authority, both funding and otherwise, to be able to check this administration. And so no, I think that Congress needs to get this done, again, not in the first 100 days, in the first 100 hours. Congress needs to assert its authority and say to the presidents of the United States, this needs to end. Part of the American opposition to the war, as I mentioned, is they don't feel it's in their interest. I was interested in this post from Vice President J.D. Vance, who, uh, explained away the midterm results in a kind of unique fashion, trying to distance himself from of the actions of the president, but he mentioned a poster that said that Republicans were struggling around four issues specifically. End the war, focus on cost of living, put America first, and change our relationship to Israel. I imagine you probably agree with him on the first three or the need for the first three, but I wanted to ask about the last one. Do you think America needs to change its relationship to Israel? I think Americans need to acknowledge the fact that Israel is a democratic ally. But I also think that I don't believe in unconditional aid to anybody. And while I understand the basic fact that Israel is our democratic ally, and I do understand the challenges, and I have very real challenges with Hamas. I mean, again, as someone who has served overseas, I know who Hamas is, and I know who Hamas is not. And Hamas is not a liberal. I know who Hamas is, and I know who Hamas is not. I know who Hamas is not a legitimate negotiating partner. But I also know that as we're thinking about this work going forward, we have to be able to be honest about the challenges we find ourselves in, the role that these decisions by Bibi Netanyahu and some of these folks have caused us. And I think it is time that we are being very clear that our aid supports is not an unconditional frame to any country around the world. Last one on this, you called Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal. I wanted to ask, do you think he oversaw a genocide in Gaza? Well, I know what I know, and I know what I was trained on, right? And I know we were trained very clearly on what war crimes are, because we were trained not to do them, and that there would be accountability if these things happened. And I do think that under the leadership and direction from Bibi Netanyahu, I think there have been war crimes. And I think you're looking at whether it is the West Bank. I think there have been some incredibly troubling lines that have been crossed. In terms of genocide, I frankly think that's a legal term and something that I think also has policy implications. So I speak to what I know. I know what war crimes look like, and I do think those lines have been crossed. Okay. Seventy percent or more, depending on the poll of Democrats, believe that Israel committed a genocide in Gaza. I have also framed it as a moral question. I hear you making a distinction between that and saying, focusing on the legal framework. Yeah. Well, I can tell you, my morality continues to remind me that when you're doing things like pulling back food for families and children, there is a moral line that has been crossed. And I know that not just from my training, but from my morality. When I'm looking at things like aid and supports that are supposed to be going to those who are defenseless, that that is not just a legal, but those are moral lines that have also been crossed. I want to ask about our last two issues that we frequently heard about, AI and data centers and immigration. First on data centers, they had a horrible night overall, but I still hear a lot of Democrats say that AI has a place in the economy of tomorrow. I wanted to know what you think. Is there a place for kind of pro-AI Democrats in this big tent? Should there be? Well, you know, I think that there are, I am, I'm very concerned about what we see from AI. And I know a lot of, a lot of Americans are. And I say that because, and I say that also knowing that I am, I'm hopeful for what I think the promise of what AI can bring to things like healthcare and what I think AI can bring to things like education. But I also know that there needs to be guardrails. And what we have seen from Donald Trump and these folks is that there are no guardrails. Hands off. It's just like, let, let, let it do what it does. Yeah. And I don't think that's the right answer. And I think that's remarkably dangerous. And I don't believe that. I know other governors believe that because I serve as the chair of the National Government Association. I know the tech executives themselves don't believe that. And I don't think that the answer is telling them, police yourself, guys, because that's going to get us to the right answer. And that's why in Maryland, we've actually put together guidelines as to how AI, AI, how we're going to be protected from AI. And that includes things like protecting our workforce. That includes things like protecting our pocketbooks. That includes things like protecting our children, right? Yeah. So there have to be guardrails that are laid out. And we have been able to lay them out both in Maryland and also have announced a task force with the net with the governors to be able to do it because we're not getting anything from Washington, D.C. Yeah, I was reading the executive order you put out on data centers earlier this year. And it read in part data centers and corporations are the ones writing the rules. And today that ends. But Maryland already has about 37 active data centers, according to some numbers. And I think part of the reason why people are upset and the folks we've talked to is they feel like those rules weren't in place pro actively to protect them. I guess that was my question. Like, why are we seeing these sort of regulations and calls for transparency now, considering for a lot of folks that data center reality is already here? Well, actually, those are very fair questions, because those data centers that you're talking about, most of those data centers are data centers that were online before I even became the governor. Okay. And when I became the governor, there's a couple things that I noticed as we were coming on board. One is the size and the scale of the data center. And I think that's one of the things that I noticed as we were coming on board. One is the size and the scale of the data centers continue to grow. The second thing that happened was we had a federal administration that basically took away all the guardrails and told the data centers, y'all get to do what you need to do. And a state cannot stop you from doing it. And that's when I said, well, not in Maryland. Like, no, they don't get to write the rules in Maryland. So you've seen those. So you're saying that, like, the issue itself changed on the ground as the realities grew exponentially in terms of the effects on Maryland. Oh, yeah. That's why we put together some of the rules. in Maryland that have either a ban or a pause on them. And I've said the state will never override you ever. If you have a ban or a pause that that that is done because control goes to the locals on our last issue, which is immigration. I wanted to pose a couple. This has certainly been split up into kind of a bucket that includes, I think, two big pieces, border security and kind of interior enforcement, things like deportations, Trump, Trump's Latino support, as you mentioned earlier, collapsed in the midterms. And our reporting says that some of that has been driven to a backlash to kind of Stephen Miller's indiscriminate deportation policy. I know that Democrats are pretty universally against the scenes that we saw in places like Minnesota, Chicago, L.A. that we saw this year. But I kind of wanted to know what, like, their own vision of interior enforcement is. There was a lot of there was a lot of backlash when Barack Obama was deporting folks back in those years. What should be done about folks who are here illegally? One thing I'll say is that I think the pullback that we've seen that he's seen from Latino voters is not just because of immigration for sure. You know, it's because, you know, they're getting fired as federal workers. We heard about a lot of we had a lot of a lot of portions. I promise you, we did not flatten them to just immigration. So it's not just that. However, however, the immigration piece is actually a really important issue. But it's not just an important issue to the Latino community. You know, it's also a really important issue to to the business community. Yes, as well. Right. So there's a lot of there's a lot of cross currents that have driven this. Now, I believe in something. And I you know, it's not just me. Ironically, you know, as chair of the National Governors Association, this is actually an issue that we have gotten a bipartisan, both Democratic and Republican governors have got a sense to agreement on was one. We believe in secure borders and we believe that the borders have to be secure to. We do believe that violent criminals and violent offenders that they have to be removed and there needs to be accountability for them. Number number three. Number three, that there needs to be a measure of state control when it comes to work permits and that kind of thing. Because, you know, the the permits that I need in Maryland for like the chicken farmers and for the crab pickers is different than what, you know, my friend Kevin Stitt in Oklahoma needs where it's more cattle. Right. So the states need to have a greater sense of control. But the fourth piece that you pointed out is important to that we all fundamentally agree that if a person has been here for years, and in some cases, decades, like you need to create a path. For citizenship for them, that it is it is it is it is untenable that you can have people who have been here, built lives here, built families here and and and and have been contributing citizens here, contributing members of society here and still have no real fundamental pathway to be able to come out of the shadows. That's something that both Democratic and Republican governors agree on as well. Seventy seven percent of Democrats say they want to abolish ICE. I don't hear that in those four. Is that something that you would support? No, I think we need to we need to reform, you know, this this this lawless agency that we have for for Trump and J.D. Vance. I understand the need for for immigration and customs. I understand the need that we have agencies that can focus on immigration. That's the reason, like, for example, in my state, we banned our for ICE being able to deputize our local law enforcement agencies. to be able to do something that in many cases is not even lawful in our state, that we have banned people wearing masks inside of our state because I don't care who you are or what agency you represent. There is no reason, unless you are working undercover or unless it's for religious purposes, why are you wearing a mask? This is not Halloween. And so, no, I think what this thing had, what they have created with this thing, these untrained, these unaccountable agents inside of neighborhoods, that cannot continue. My last ones are, of course, about your future and whether you're thinking about running for president. I mean, part of the reason I wanted to talk with you is that I read that memo after the midterms and it sounded to me like someone thinking about national office. I saw you did not commit to serving a full term as governor during your reelection. Is that supposed to mean that the presidential announcement is imminent? You have the floor if you want to do it right now. No. That's not what it means. And honestly, I think what we laid out was just simply the facts, right? What we laid out were the facts that I'm really proud and I'm thankful that we ended up winning with the largest margin of any governor in Maryland for their reelection in over 50 years. The facts that we ended up not just winning by 30 points, but also the facts that I'm the first African-American governor in the South to win reelection ever, right? The facts that we were able to not just turn about 11 seats in our state from red to blue, but also the facts that we were also able to work to make sure that we got question three, our redistricting amendment passed, and also being able to recruit other governors to include collections of historic governors now around the country. So we're proud of the facts that we've been able to win. We've been able to deliver. I also know that we still have more, we have work to do here in Maryland. And that's why I ran for reelection, because I know we have more work to do. And also though, the facts that Maryland will be part of this conversation, because I think our results prove why we should be part of the conversation going forward about what is the future of this country. Today, I was looking up who was the last bald president ahead of our chat. Dwight D. Eisenhower is the answer. And so I was a military man, a military man with no hair. Let me like this. My final question, though. What's one non-negotiable that you think it should be true for the next Democratic nominee? What is something that you think should be an expectation for whoever comes out of that process? They need to be able to have a serious plan to address child poverty. Child poverty. Yep. I think that if you're if you do not have a serious plan to address child poverty, you are not a serious contestant. To be able to lead this country going forward, because this continues to be one of the greatest stains on our society. The fact that we allow so many children to be able to have their destiny determined before they even have a shot. And so if you're not serious about being able to do things like making sure that you can have more child care options for people, if you're not serious about being able to explore ways of ensuring that every child can start school earlier, if you're not serious about making sure we're doing more to invest in, trade and apprenticeship programs for our young people, if you're not serious about things like the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit, if you're not serious about coming up with a community-based, targeted way of addressing the pockets of our society, urban, rural, and suburban, where child poverty has been allowed to not just exist, but where it's been allowed to grow over these past three, four, five, not just decades, but three, four, five generations, then I don't find you to be a serious person who's prepared to actually lead inside this moment. Governor Westmore of Maryland, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Appreciate your time. I appreciate yours, man. Thank you. America Actually will be in your feeds every Saturday with an interesting interview in culture or politics. You can also watch these episodes on the Vox YouTube channel. Just go to youtube.com slash Vox or click the link in the show notes. And great news. We just launched a Vox mobile app that brings together all of our work, our podcasts, our videos, our written stories into one experience. The app is now free to download in the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store. So go check it out. This show was edited by Kasia Brasalian, fact-checked by Esther Gimm, and mixed by Shannon Mahoney. Christopher Snyder is our video editor, and Kun Uy is our senior art director. Our executive producer is Christina Vallis, and our theme music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Additional support from Miranda Kennedy, David Tadashore, and Nisha Chita. I'm Ested Herndon, and this is America Actually. 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