A Woman's Guide To Attracting Women - Kezia Noble - #206

There's three main sticking points that guys come to us with. The first is approach anxiety, that feeling of being not good enough, burning with that negative mindset. She's going to say no, she's busy, I'm not going to be her type. You know, a million excuses. So they're starting off already on the wrong foot, and that affects their energy, their vibe, their body language, everything. The second one is conversation skills, just being able to express themselves with confidence and authentically. The third one is getting stuck in the comfort zone we call it, which is just not escalating in any way at all, not showing some tent, not flirting, because the most common one out of those three, and where all kind of lies is that conversation skills, essentially that transition, on opening line, getting her full attention emotionally and mentally. I mean, that transition, it's very, very difficult to achieve. I'm joined by Kessie and Noble. Kessie, welcome to the show. Hello. Hello. How are you? I'm fine, thank you. How are you? Very good. Thank you. What do you do for a job? Describe your job for me. I'm a dating and attraction expert, men. Dating and attraction expert for men. So not for women. That would be the blind leading the blind. All right. Okay. Okay. I get that. I've noticed this online, upon doing a little bit of research for this. It appears there's a lot of women teaching men to date. Why is that the case? Why is it that women are teaching men to date and not men teaching men today? Okay. So my research, there's a complete opposite. Is that there's more men teaching guys to attract in date. I do think that there are some women who are now, you know, doing their thing. I think it's quite recent. But I actually know a lot more guys that do this than women. I think maybe, I think the guys get a lot of bad press, unfortunately. The media seems to want to crucify pick-up artists, pick-up, anything related to pick-up. And if you're a woman, you, you, they're more, haven't a bit sympathetic to you teaching this, which is, just totally unfair. I mean, it's good for me, but I'll say it is unfair because a lot of these guys, I think, are providing a service. Isn't it interesting that the end result is the same thing? The end result is getting men to be better, date is more effective at being attractive, but because a girl's delivering it, it's somehow less CD, less what? Yeah. Less CD. It's like an easy target, is it? Like, okay, if a guy's teaching another guy, the media, the general public believe, you know, always untrustworthy, that word, like, seduction, it sounds very, very contrived. He must be using tricks and he must be lying to her, some level ways. If a woman is teaching it and she's not actually going out and applying and demonstrating it, that's okay because it's in the abstract almost. It's more kind of like, well, it's theory, rather than she's going out and doing it. It's interesting, I find it fascinating that there's a branding problem for men teaching men to pick up women and you've managed to get this competitive advantage. So, fair play to you, fair play to you, well done for being born that gender and-- Yeah, it's great, huh? Yeah, for sure. So, first things first, where do you see men going wrong the most when dating and trying to attract women? Well, let's look at the most common sticking points that guys come to us with and what I see in general when guys are approaching me or my friends. And the first is approach anxiety, that feeling of being not good enough, going in with that negative mindset. She's going to say, no, she's busy. I'm not going to be her type. She's probably like, black guys. She probably likes white guys. So, they're starting off already on the wrong foot and that affects their energy, their vibe, their body language, everything. That's the first one. Guys will often talk to a woman with a nice guy filter on, I call it, it's a filter. So, they're sort of playing not to lose rather than playing to win. They just go in there and be very safe. The conversation will be very safe. They'll say the same kind of generic stuff that everyone else says. And then at the end of it, they kind of feel like, well, that was me. It was that was a poor representation of who I am. In fact, that wasn't me at all. That was a very watered down version of me. And like if we put a filter on anything, it gives a kind of nice effect, but it's not impactful. And as I said, it's an authentic. So, I think a massive part of it is just guys, many other things to say, not saying anything impactful, not making a connection. And the goal is interest very, very quickly. She makes her decision. It's kind of like when he does actually say something quite interesting, mentally she's already sort of checked out. And it's very difficult to make impact later on. The third one is getting stuck in the comfort zone we call it, which is just not escalating in any way at all, not showing his intent, not flirting. It kind of comes the second point, which is a nice guy filter, which waters down your character, your boldness, your charm, just waters everything down. And it goes back to the idea of playing up to lose, not taking any risk at all. And then having a very tonic conversation with the girl so the girl's kind of thinking, well, does he like me? Does he not? And if he does like me, he's not showing much intent. So I don't really know where this is going. So I'd say that most of the sticking points that we have will fall under one of those three categories. But the most common one out of those three, and where it all lies is that conversation skills that essentially are transition from opening line to getting her full attention emotionally and mentally. I mean, that transition is very, very difficult to achieve. That's so interesting. I can see both in my own experiences and in the ones of my friends. You might not know. I'm a nightclub promoter. So I've watched about a million drunk people going in and out of their news. Obviously, one of the main reasons that people go out is that they're perhaps single, perhaps looking for a partner, just whether that be serious or casual. Enough to the girls that are listening, right? You might be thinking, no, I'm not going to listen a lot of the dating tips for guys for. But I want to hear throughout this conversation as Kezi is bringing up these sorts of things. I want to hear if you've noticed this. So just leave it in the comments below or give me a DM. About whether or not you're noticing this, whether or not you have these guys that come up to you and just have this real vanilla personality, like whether or not you think that all guys or the vast majority of guys have nothing to say, whereas it might actually just be the case that they are selecting for a particular type of guy who is nervous around you because you're a pretty girl and you've got pretty friends with you and you're doled up and you've got your hair done. And that blocs really, we go out as a group, but like before we were going out, we probably had our jeans on backwards. You know, we probably didn't really think too much about what we were going to wear and then you're there, you know, fully done up. So yeah, I'd love to hear what girls' experiences of being on the receiving end of the sort of things that we're going to go through today. I like. So first things first, how do guys get over approach anxiety? If you don't go and speak to the girl, you don't even get the opportunity to say something that's totally shit to it. - So it's a two-pronged assault that we use on this approach anxiety. The first is actually getting numb to the sensation of fear. I'm a big believer in numbing out rejection. Overcoming it, I think, overcoming a fear of rejection. It's difficult. I did a video about this in fact, and I wuffled on and it's so much because it's very, very complex. How to really overcome rejection. I don't believe that you truly can overcome. Not so much the fear, but I don't want to walk along here. So I'm just raining in a little bit. It's becoming numb to that feeling of fear. So the more you do something, you get rejected a few times, hurts, and then basically you numb to it. You become desensitized to it. And that's when I say the kind of fog lifts a little bit. And you start taking better risks and you start becoming a lot more, partner, but it level-headed about the whole approach. So if you are going into an interaction and you're like, fuck it, I'm just going to do it. I'm not going to think about it. And then she rejects you. That can still hurt you. But after a while, it numbs. And you have clarity. That's what I'm looking for. You have clarity. OK, so I don't feel the pain anymore. What do I need to do next? You start asking the right questions. If you're coming from a place of anger, like, fuck her, she, you know, am I allowed to swear on you? So I swear away. Fire away is much of your own. I should have asked that for apologies. It's all the fun. So if you're going into attitude, which is, oh, I hope she likes me. I don't want to be hurt. OK, that's a fog in your head. If you're going in with a kind of like fuck you, don't care if you like you or not, you're going in with anger that's a fog you can't get clarity, you can't work out what to do next. When you are numb to something, you start asking the right questions, okay, what do I need to do to improve? What maybe it's that? Maybe I need to adjust this slightly. Can't do that when you're caught up in that fog of anxiety and fear and hate and feeling inadequate, but just this fog. So we do that, get them to go up, talk to girls, actually get over the physical reaction of the anxiety. But then we go sort of backwards. So a big fear that guys have when I speak to them is not even the rejection, it's actually the fear of running out something to say that awkward moment. There's sort of not even at that point of thinking about rejection right now. They're sometimes thinking, "But I've got nothing to say to her, but what if she says this and I don't know how to respond?" If you know, if you become a master conversationist and you know, "Look, it doesn't matter what she throws at me, it doesn't matter what, she can come to fuck off and I'll make it work." She can tell me that she's from a country I've never heard of and I will say something that will absolutely capture her imagination and it will make her want to invest in me. I can trigger her curiosity with whatever she gives me. If you have that level of skill, the approach to anxiety decreases because you already know, no matter what, I'm going to have an interesting conversation with this person. So that's what we do like this is my seven day mastery program. We used to just kind of start off with helping them overcome approach to anxiety as I said just going out there getting numb to it. Then I realize, "No, we should be doing conversation skills simultaneously because they're going to get to this point where they overcome the approach anxiety. You're going to talk to a woman and then we're going to be like, "Oh shit, I've got nothing to say." And then guess what? Approach anxiety. That seems back into the approach anxiety. It's actually, yes. Absolutely. So honestly, the best thing that you can do is become a master conversationist. It's come brilliant. You say, "Whatever she throws at me, have it all lined up?" She says, "This to me, she says that to me, I got it. I got this. I'm going to capitalize on whatever she says and I know how to do it." A lot of students come to me, a guy to freestyle and be authentic. I'm like, "Good luck with that. Sometimes you do need those kind of go-to lines and that go-to sequence almost." At the earner's stage is just to get you through that horrible transition point where everything's very awkward. So, canned openers are a big sort of artifact of the old Pick-a-Partist-Reworld. That was one of the things I think to have the first you go to go in, then neg the beater, then do this. And it just harks massively back to the magic days of history. It just harks back to that. And I think that's, again, as I'm hearing this kind of, whatever it is, third wave relationship dating advice for men now or whatever it is. As I'm hearing this come out, I'm starting to see the development of that. So, it used to be having these canned openers and getting over-approach anxiety, avoiding getting KB'd and knocked back and all this sort of stuff. But you've identified here that in order to kind of get your foot in the door, you need to have something that assists you in overcoming that approach anxiety. I love that. So, perfect example. This will be episode 200 and something of this podcast, right? I've done 300, 400 hours of this podcast. I still get nervous before every single one because I don't want to say a stupid thing at the very, very start. I'll speak to some professor from Princeton. I'm never going to speak to again unless we become best friends, which happens a lot. But I'll speak to some guy, but I still don't want to look like a fool to him and inevitably the people that are listening, which could be the girls' friends that are sat around her. So, the way that. I've got a tip fee. Oh, so you've got to tip yourself. Go and give it. I just prep the first question. The only question which is fully scripted on this show is the first question because I just want to get, I'm like, right, okay, if I nail that first, very first question, I'm over it. We're into the conversation and then it's just a game of spontaneity. What I find interesting is that you've said relying too much on spontaneous wit is actually potentially going to be a little bit of a downfall when you're dating. I just. yes, you're right, but there's just one caveat to that. Now, are people who are naturally witty? They're fine. They're good to go. I'm talking about people who find conversation very awkward and most people do. Most people just are not. they're interesting people. They've got character. They've got a lot going for them, but they're just not engaging when it comes to conversation. They don't know how. They just hung around the same people all the time. They haven't developed those skills, okay? It's like a beautiful woman. Most beautiful women that I personally know don't have much banter because they've had to rely on their beauty. So, you know, that's what they've had to do. The girls that are not so attractive have to rely on their sex appeal. They're wit, they're banter, which is why, by the way, when you've got a strip pub, the girl that is cleaning up the most is the least attractive one. She's using her head. She's using her banter and wit. That's the fact. Every single strip pub you go to, you'll see that the least attractive, or like one of the less attractive, physically attractive women are doing much better than the really stunning girl who just rely on purely on her looks. I digress. Back to the point that I was saying, okay, so if you're a witty person, then it's fine, but most people are not. They're not used to, you know, being in those situations where they have like, literally three or four minutes to really make impact and market their attributes. Keep her interested, connect with her, all this stuff that they're trying to remember. So, I have these kind of things like conversational clickbait, things like that. Little things I throw in there. I never told them to lie, by the way. I never ever told them to lie. And so I give them conversational clickbait and I said, look, if you use this, it will be a great way for you to express your attributes, your setting points essentially, but it also really spark curiosity and interest and get her to invest in you. I'm a good conversationist, but I still rely on going to lie sometimes. If I think, look, I need to, you know, I need to seriously make a bit of impact on this person. I will have my go-to lines, even now. So I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I've only seen it help. That's all I've seen. It's helped people. And then when you get really good, and you become confident, because it's like a positive feedback loop, you start getting better responses. You start going, oh, okay, I don't need that anymore. I can use my own thing. Good, good, use your own thing. Please get rid of my stuff as soon as possible and use your own stuff. That's what I want you to do, but it's those early stages. It's a bit like, what kids, they have those bicycles, the stabilizers behind, eventually you get rid of them. But they do need those stabilizers to build up the confidence to get on a bike first, right? Yes. I wonder how many of the girls are having a visceral reaction that makes them feel uncomfortable at the potential for the opening line that a guy gives them to be something which wasn't actually designed for them. Because. Oh, I don't give opening lines, sorry. Let me just make that really, really clear. What I'm talking about here is the transition from opening lines. So some guys make me watch, like I say, say, say anything to her. You know, ask for what time it is or tell her how she's got her tan from. I don't know, tell her she looks good. But what you do with the data that she gives you, that is what I care about. Okay, so the magic is in scaling that from it just being, hi, I'm here, look at me, I'm a person, to this is now a conversation in a dialogue. Yes, that's really important. A lot of guys come to me, but I just need that magic opening line. I've got great opening lines, don't get me wrong. It's going to make it go, oh, that's interesting. And you're going to gain her attention. But what you do with the data that she exchanges, because, you know, conversation is an exchange of data. And a lot of guys forget that. They just start going into tarotation mode. And the reason is, of course, they're trying, because they're trying to find the answer that they want. And going to happen. She's not into the same stuff as you, commonality, for both teams, your support. And even so, let's say, how much can you guys, when she supports Arsenal? So you're going to, there's going to be attraction. I've never heard of a girl, so I slept with him because he supports the football team. Yeah, you never know. You never know. I love, listen, I did do something now. I love dogs. I love dogs. I'm a, you know, dog, but I don't like that. Like dog. I'm telling you know, not a single guy, who said, I love dogs too. I've set with him based on that. It's never happened. But a lot of guys think, oh, as long as I find out one thing, I'm just, all of these are just open loops, Kessie. So all that we're doing is opening loops. And I want to know from the thousands of people that are listening, have you ever slept with someone because you both like the same animal? Because someone will have done someone, oh my god, you're a parakeet person. I'm a parakeet person too. And then that's it. That's the beginning of a flourish. Oh, the beginning. No, no, no, it can be the beginning like, okay, that's something we have in common. Then what do we do with it next? And it goes on and it starts going into different conversations and it becomes a very sort of multi-dimensional kind of interaction, very dynamic interaction. Yes, but I don't think anyone's going to say, well, because, you know, we both, the same, you know, fittings in our sandwich. Use the same washing detergent. That's that could be the basis for great. To be exact. They'd whisk me away. Where's the Uber? Okay, so that's how someone can get over approach anxiety. And I guess it's interesting that that leads into both the second and third aspects, right? The run out of something to say and then the what did you call it up scaling or the advancing the conversation to like, sure, escalating. Escalating. That's it. Yes. Upscaling. Fucking hell. Marketing. Too much marketing. It's all about. No, no, no, no, you don't give me one. Ooh, IT is essentially marketing. I say to them, you're the product. Go sell yourself. And they first will say to me, "Suse, I don't know what my qualities are." Well, that's a bad start. How can you sell yourself? You don't know what your qualities are. I sell a product without an offering, man. You've got to have the offering. Look, it's all about it's either traffic or it's conversions that all that I'm bothered about. That's what we've been saying for years. Traffic and conversions. Okay, so we've got that. We've got past the first bit. We understand that we can get past our approach anxiety with some chosen exposure, right, with deliberate practice, so that the fear of rejection. And again, like, to the guys that are listening, you know the feeling. I don't know why it's so terrifying. I don't know if girls can appreciate this. They probably can, but it is, it's the same feeling as standing on the edge of a very, very big drop. Sometimes before you go up and speak to a girl, like it's like a mortal danger. It feels like you're in, you're potentially going to die. Like you're about to get ready for a fight. Why don't you think that is? I think that for guys, rejection comments massively on who we are. It's wired into us evolutionarily. We don't want to be rejected either by a woman or by the tribe generally. One of men's biggest fears is rejection, right? You don't want to feel silly. I know I'm asking you. I'm just getting inside your head. That's all because it's a big one. We had a student who was a bond disposal expert. He could do that job, but he couldn't approach women. That is so good. Yeah, police. We have firemen. Shit, I couldn't do. I'm a run-to-fire. I see a fire run the other way. Bond disposal expert. Yeah, he was. He's actually on, we've got a video of him saying that as well. That is intense. But that's a perfect example. And again, girls, you might think, "Oh, I go on a night out. I make all of this effort. I do this and the other." And guys don't ever come up and talk to me. It might just be that you keep going to places where guys are shit scared of you. Because that's probably the most likely reason that guys might not be coming up and talking to you. I think it's gotten worse, though. I think it's gotten worse. Why? Well, there's a few reasons. There's a few reasons. Men, and I remember, I've been, I was going to night clubs at 13, 14. And I was 40, I was a bit too young being in those night clubs. But I would watch. I would watch. And I saw men approaching a lot. This isn't the '90s. Okay. I see men approaching women. I'm not. I see women getting hit on all the time and back. And then, you know, as I got older, it's like happy to me and my friends. But the more I went to clubs, the more I found that, I don't even say men are becoming pussy. That would be, that would be, no, I would never say that. It's to do with massive part of it, it's to do with apps. Luddy dating apps. But that's a big problem with it. That people are getting very used to using dating apps. I don't mean men are pussy, but I think society is trying to crucify men. I mean, a perfect example of this is the fact that it's challenging for a man to teach another man to date without it somehow being labeled as being CD. But the hustle. Yeah, I mean, the media is totally society, media is, you know, there's a mad witch hunt going on. And going on since even before me too, it's been a kind of thing. Like, it's a strange thing. I think I personally, I don't want to get too crazy with this tin, you know, tin hat foil. Tin foil hat. Tin foil hat on you. But I think the media is made up social media. A lot of these people in the tech, I think a lot of them are men who are no good with women. They're like uber geeks. Uber uber geeks we're talking about. Always been shit with women. Don't want to see other guys doing well with women. I think there's a person, I think, that's like a big conspiracy theory, which is trying to make men into kind of very, um, feminine, but, uh, they'd be pacified them. There's wrong for wanting women. You're wrong for objectifying women. Hello, I don't mind being objectified. I have no problem with it. I think the dynamic between the sexes definitely appears to be very different, you know, as someone who's 32, so I've been able to see their clubbing from 2005 until 2020. So I got a pretty good sample. Okay, okay. You do. I've got even more ahead of you. I mean, I've started clubbing the 90s and I'm heading it even to be honest in 2005. I'm a more approaching women still, but you see now they're looking at phones and looking at the apps. Um, it's kind of like an easy way to meet women. But every season's a shortcut. It's not actually a shortcut because I don't use dating apps. I'm single right now. I'm divorced and I'm a single mom, so I should do those dating apps more than anyone. I refuse to go to the dating apps. You know why? Because I see all my friends go, "Oh, I've recently seen much Chinese dating apps." I was like, "Oh, no, this has been to be a shortcut." They're like, "No, I'll go on a day off the date." I'm like, "Oh, I've never had that problem." Because every guy that I've gone on a date with, I've already met because he, he came and approached me or however I had introduced to me. So I met him already and I got a sense. And that's very important, the sense of who someone is. It's a fill, it's the body language that it bit off. What's that eye contact like? What's that manner? You know you sense people. And when you've gone to date with them, it can be a letdown, of course, it had all her bad date experiences. But on the whole, it's, you, you don't, it's not such a big leap as meeting someone that you've only seen a photograph of. So actually, these people will say it's a shortcut. I'm hearing more and more that they're wasting time and dates and drinks on people that as soon as they meet, they're like, "Oh, this is not the person that was in that photograph." I don't mean physically, I'm not talking, physically is another thing. No one looks like their photographs anymore, not me, not you, not anyone. We're all filtered and people just go up like that when they see us. But I'm talking about the sense of confidence because people are very, very, you know, gun, hoe, witty with those text messages, you know. They're very funny, very confident. And then you meet them, think, "It's the same person because it's easy to write, easy to write something and we edit and think about it." And when you actually meet someone one-on-one for a day, it's pretty different. I think that's a big part of that. I do think it's that the big part. I think there's a media kind of, is it not moated what's the word, a media, something like agenda, agenda, against men, women or also, I think, make it difficult for men. How? I have a lot of students and this is more happening, I found in places like San Francisco where there's a big kind of woke movement going on. And a lot of feminists are telling me, "Well, this is what they're telling me. I mean, I'm just giving you second-hand information here. That's, you know, if you just open up a door for a woman and they're getting shouted at. Shouted at that. For hoping a door for a woman is out and do that myself." And then I think that's very toxic to do that, to have those kind of reactions to people. You could just be being polite, not even interested in you. And I think that's kind of spreading a little bit. Most women are okay, most women if you go speak to them, they'll be fine, you know. But there is something I think that's been changing for quite a while now. Why do you think I'm very curious to know, why do you think men are approaching women less than the 1970s or '80s? I can't speak for that long ago, but I think apps and the proliferation of people spending time online generally more of our social time is now spent. That's big what? It's just generally, you know, like, people, guys talking to guys, girls talking to girls, it happens less because more of our communication is done through our phones, which inevitably is going to skew people toward being better online and worse offline. So that's part of it. That's the big one. I am free. That's the big one. Because it's just a skill at the end of the day. Having a conversation with someone is just a skill. But if you don't converse all that much, you know, you can have people who I've gone weeks. I'm sure that you might have done as well. If you've just been head down in the funnel hole or in your marketing hole, do you need bits and pieces? If you're not careful, you can actually go long periods of days without saying a word to anyone, except for like, thank you to the checkout server at Astoramic. Yeah, you get rusty, don't you? You get socially very rusty. But what do you think about the whole media movement? You know, that kind of making guys into the enemy, that whole me too thing? I don't want to get too much into that vibe. I thought a lot about this over the last year, the last couple of years. I think that it's challenging to hold in reality at the same time that the MeToo movement has been born out of a very toxic system that was obviously happening in Hollywood and women who quite rightly need to be heard. And at the same time that typical masculine traits and the fact that men are the protagonists in the dating market for a reason, because that is every male species on the planet, bar like a penguin and a fucking parakeet or something, men are the protagonists sexually. That is what happens. Men go up to women. And as girls and the MeToo movement perhaps sometimes push that domain of what is fair, outside of, you know, someone tries to open the door for somebody and whatever it is now seventh wave feminism, whatever up to, perhaps pushes this rhetoric a little bit too hard. Men quite rightly only have one response which is to go right, well fuck it. If that's the way that you want to be, I'm just going to leave it. I had Douglas Murray on the show and he was talking about a friend, a phenomenal guy. You'd love the episode. Had him on the show and he was talking about his friend's son. And his friend's son is like 18 or something, 17, 18. So you'd be thinking like just about to hit the straps with women like really, really like hitting the ground running. And he asked his friend and he said, so is he, is your son dating? And he was like, oh no, he wants nothing to do with women. And he's like, because Douglas is gay. So he can say this. And he's like, oh my god, he's, he's not fucking gay, is he? He's not gay. He's not got that. He's not got that as his future as he. And he was like, no, no, no, he just thinks that their far more trouble than worth. Doesn't want anything to do with him. Just thinks that their far more trouble than the worth and leaves them be. And like that is for everyone, for both sides of the aisle, that's a terrible situation for us. It's shit, it's pretty, really shit. For me, what really did it was that Gillette adverb. I mean, that was a troche of such a little adverb. You remember the one? I had Saga and a card on here talking precisely. Ah well, I won't be an echo, but it was just that the one scene that got me, all the whole experience got me and I'm, I have a son. So I'm pinning you now, boys like to fight. It's not society, boys choose to fight. Okay, even if you have the most peace loving hippie family, boys fight. Okay, that's a bit of what they're like. One will write, I don't know, but it's a natural instinct in boys. Girls don't do it so much. Anyway, it was a bit when a woman was walking by and the man went up to a pro-cher and the other guy stood in front of him like, no, don't approach her. But you don't know what that guy is going to say. You could have, they could have got married as a result. Who is that man to come along and say, no, you can't approach her? I bet you that man and I know, I know it's just an adverb and I'm looking into this. But I bet you that was when you're like, that man's married. It's got his life sorted out. The other guy's single, tough shit, tough shit. And that really got me really, really angry. I feel like almost living in a harvest kind of society. It's like men and women can't talk to each other. I think the fuck out of them got a Saudi Arabia. Really going live there where women are on one side of the, you know, of a wall and the men are on the other and go, you do you. It's a very narrow world view that believes that the most important situations that we have going on in gender and equality right now are occurring in the UK and in the USA. Like you just need to look to the Middle East and countries which have a lot of work to do to realize that that's not the case. And I appreciate that the world, the sphere that everybody lives in is relative and absolute, right? And just your problem compared with the people in your immediate vicinity. So quite rightly so like everything is done in relative terms. But yeah, I agree. I think that there's a lot of challenges at the moment just in the dating market generally. And I want to get on to actually what girls can do to kind of help men in a second. But just finishing off those last two stages of what we were talking about. So many have overcome approach anxiety. What can they do moving on to make sure that they have good conversation, any stuff for body language and eye contact and then how can they escalate, not upscale? How can they escalate? Okay, so it's called sexual escalation. And this is a lot of guys what they think is they go right into approach girl, go up comfort before, go interested and then I need to sexual escalate. Yes, but you should be sexual escalating from the very beginning. Now that doesn't mean trying to physically turn her on at the very beginning. That's where men and women are quite different. Men are, it's much more physical. So I can be talking to a guy and it's quite tonic. And not every guy, I'm not saying that, but you know, just like an average guy. If I suddenly say, let's go back to my house and it's everything's very photonic. I'm like, I'm just like switch down the light. I'm going a bit of music. Give them a mass salvage. And I can turn them on. Okay. And I'm like, I'm an average guy because it's a physical thing. Like, oh, okay, I'm simulating that woman and I like that. Women does a turn like now, change the mood, give her a massage and she's going to get horny. It's much more psychological. So I say to men, look, you can't just suddenly go, right, I'm going to flip the switch. I'm going to start being, I'm going to escalate now and just get her, you know, aroused. Women can do that to men much more easily than men can do it to women. The man has to be doing what I say escalating is he has to be sort of lacing the whole interaction with little attraction triggers. Okay. It's a more slow process. So he's going to, for instance, demonstrate high value. Okay. Is this a man who has high value? Is this a man of, there's other options? Is this a man who's needy? Is this a man that can get women if he wants? She's trying to assess all these things on some level. Where's a man isn't with a woman? He's not. He's thinking, no, it's shut for it. He's talking to the whole thing, it's shut for it. It's a boyfriend. It's much more black and white, but with a girl, she's trying to ascertain a lot of things. Is he aware, though? Do I have a women find him attractive? Is he confident in bed? Is he? You know, it's all these things and you've got to sort of drip feed sort of clues to this throughout. And then you'll find that the transition to actually escalating and getting her aroused is a lot easier. That makes sense, what I say. Absolutely. Yeah. What are some of the ways that you can drip feeds that? Is it touching her on the knee when you say something? That's a pinnacle, because I'm talking about what to say to her kind of thing. So maybe if you, okay, so physical and fit to stop, you know, halfway and then sort of take a look at her and say something like, you know, now I know I'm a child. I'm attracted to you. Now I know what it is. But anyway, you could do something like that. So it's kind of very playful on those early stages. Playful, bloody. Is he really flirting with me? I'm not sure. It's a bit of a chase, you know, a bit of intrigue, giving her a compliment and then backing off like nothing's happened. That's push-pull. You can do things like that. But what I'm trying to say is him. Lots of different things you can do. Yes, a touching thing, as you mentioned. I personally, I'm someone that doesn't really like to be touched that much. I'm just not a warm person. But a guy can really arouse me with his words, okay, and his attitude. So it does depend on the woman, slightly, okay? But yes, flirting, compliments, the way that you compliment, you know, just share that you have other options. You really need to know that women don't want to be with a guy or see with a guy that kind of know of a girl maybe once or that maybe the other thing is if the guy is showing to a desperation or neediness, there's everything that can get in the way when it comes to sexual escalation, placing too much value, giving her way too much value, saying something like, I bet you get this all the time. You know, something like that, just that's a kill. Demonstrating low value. Yeah, yeah. If a woman doesn't have a man, a man can always overlook it. I've known it's that. When we get away so much more because the man is kind of like, I did see his more program like, he's shot for it. He's also not playing that status value game, right? He's not playing the game that like if you're attracted to a girl, it doesn't really matter if there's other guys that are also attracted to it. Oh, no, no, no, no, he just wants to get his leg out. Oh, I know. It's very clear to say. We can be as cross if you want on this program. But he just wants to, you know, he wants to, he wants to pop her and it's like, oh, I have a guy's interest in her. Who gives a shit? I want to pop her. You know, does she have status? I don't care. I want to pop her, you know, because she's nice looking. She's quite hot and she's got a nice little personality on her. It's not the, you know, what they're expecting. And I don't, I'm not trying to be a little man anyway, but I think most guys, people are going to be honestly all agree. Yes, that is the case. When it's women, it's much more, they need proof and validation of their certainty that the guy's like this, that he's like that. And then they're trying to ascertain a lot more. That's what I'm trying to say women. I know that's with me. I can be a good looking guy and if he's just good looking, I won't just sleep with a guy because he's good looking. I won't. But as a man, a lot of men, not all, but a lot of men, just sleep with a woman because she's hot. Anything that's there. I think that's, I think that's what you've been at. She's a baby. - That's a truth. - That's a truth that everybody's forgotten. And it's an asymmetry in the way that we work as well. And again, this highlights, I think, as we move towards a world where some people are trying to make it much more egalitarian, like almost completely homogenous between the genders, you're going to end up with challenges because as you've identified there, like what a man looks for in attraction with a woman is not the same as what a woman looks for in a man. And what you identified that I thought was really interesting was that you have men speaking to a woman in the way that they might find attractive as a man. So they're almost dating other men. They're like putting their own dating brain inside of the girl and saying, "Right, I'm going to attack me. I'm going to proposition me as her." It's like, no, mate, like you're playing chess, she's playing fucking, so how? - Exactly. And I've learned that with like how I secuse men, but I was young, I didn't have a clue on men, you know, anything. But now I know that men like to chase. I know they like to chase. And I think most men don't want to be seduced. So what I do with guys is I'll just, I'll say something that will get in their head. And it will just be something, an image that will stay in their head and then I pull back and then that's how I do it because I know that they are operating on a different way to women. That's a point that you said that a lot of people are trying to, you know, say men and women are saying, let me give you an example, all my male friends are taking away and love dearly. I have seen them at the end of the night, but these are good friends of mine. And it's that game at the end of the club and there's a right scrubber. I'm like, come, really? And then I just need to fuck with the sofa. I'm like, really? She looks like we need the poo, come on. And then she's like, she's out for it. And these are good looking guys. These are guys that, you know, they fuck beautiful women, stunners, but they will fuck a winner the poo because it's there. A woman, you will never see her at the end of the night, I'll just take anything. Him, him over there, that drunk guy, he'll do, you know, if he can get it up, I'm good. - Women go think like that. - No, but the man's like, there's a hole, there's a pulse. - He's in that hole. I'm doing it. - I had Rob Henderson, evolutionary psychologist on the podcast talking about dating and evolution and how it all ties together. And he used this analogy, which I think is absolutely perfect. He said that men look for a reason why they wouldn't sleep with a woman. Women look for a reason why they would sleep with a man. And there's stats, anyone that went back and listened to that episode, men swipe right eight out of 10 times and women swipe right two out of 10 times. That's the stats on Tinder. The top 80% of women are competing for the top 20% of men. And the bottom 80% of men are competing for the bottom 20% of women. This is stats from Tinder. Now you can dislike this as much as you want as a guy or a girl, but facts don't care about your feelings. These are the stats out of the back end of Tinder. What does that tell us? It tells us that hypergamy, women dating up and across is challenging for both women and for men. There's more women competing for a smaller pool of men. There's also this problem with women becoming increasingly educated, increasingly rich because women often don't want to date a guy who is better educated and or richer than them. And if you increase the level at which women are becoming educated, this isn't me saying like, "Ah, I agree." You're telling them that they shouldn't be educated. No, Bollocks, that's not what I'm saying. Obviously, what I'm saying is that because of the natural attraction dynamic where women tend to date up and across. They like higher social value. They like a man that can demonstrate that value. If you have tons and tons of value, it's like being the really tall girl. Like if you're six foot as a girl without heels, you're looking at pro basketball players and stuff. Like you don't want to be able to not wear heels at your wedding. You don't want to not to be dating a guy that's shorter than you. That just happens to be, and if you take that rule and apply it to earnings and education, it's kind of the same. The higher that you move up, the hierarchy is a female, the smaller and smaller and smaller your dating pool gets. Whereas as a guy, a guy will have a much broader dating pool. OK, but there's one exception to the rule. And I'm in a really, really good position here. So I, you know, I'm gonna say, yeah, I have a lot of money and I'm successful. And you know, I've got the big car and everything. And I know it's, yeah, it's I'm going. You're absolutely right. Most guys want someone a woman that's successful in them. I agree. But apart from younger men, they get a massive kick out of it. -Tell boys. -And I'm like younger men. -You don't get tell boys, Kati, yeah, come on. -Oh, very legal. I don't give a shit anyway. So apologize. My friends just take a piss out of me. They say, I don't care anymore. I don't care. I do younger men. So they love it. They love it. You know, they love the car being picked up in the car. And, you know, this, you know, college. Up from college. Cool. Please come on. Let's be. Let's be careful here. Let's be careful here, shall I? I'm joking. Let's talk about 18 and over. 18 and over is fine. Let's talk about the, those artifacts, that pick apart history, artifacts that we spoke about earlier on. Anyone who hasn't read Neil Strauss is the game or kind of the, I guess the period from what, about 2000 to 2010, where kind of pick apart history, and maybe a little bit like a maybe like '03 to kind of '13, where pick apart history and. -Oh, age. -Real social dynamics, RSD, max, and all of these sorts of guys like were smashing YouTube and putting this sorts of comment down. If you don't know who I'm talking about, just like go back in time by a decade and you'll see exactly what I mean. But being frank, like even I as a 21-year-old, 22-year-old hot-blooded male looked at that stuff and I felt icky. Like watching YouTube compilations of guys going up and practicing day game, which is just going up and like kissing girls in a fucking park somewhere. Whilst some other guy YouTube, like videos it, I'm like, this is something kind of weird going on here. And with that having happened and perhaps set the foundation for what is now your industry, I can see why there is work to be done in the teaching men to become attractive and to date well game, to perhaps undo some of the kind of unsavory stuff that happened a while ago. What's your thoughts there? I agree you should never film someone about the commission. I've never done that. I've had one of my trainers, they said, look, can I put something on your YouTube channel? We approach your woman, that's absolutely not. You do, you do what you have to do, but that's not going off on my channel because I would hate something like that to happen to me. But I do kind of get why they did it because people want to see evidence because there's these guys, they come out and know where, and they're like, well, can you actually do it? And you just say, yeah, yeah, I can. People just go like, well, anyone can say that. I need to see some evidence. So I can see it from a marketing point of view why they want to do it. You know, that, God, it's so funny. I have watched it really, really change the pickup industry that has gone much more into self-help. Essentially, you're still teaching guys, not a chat women, you're just using different terminology now. The people that were teaching it then, they were people who almost were self-taught and had gone from literally zero to doing okay. But it's changed now. Most of the guys that can't walk through our door, are guys that are okay with women, they're a son that have never not a clue quite a lot. But there's a lot of people who are just like, they're doing okay, but they just want to do better. And I actually asked them, have you read the game and they never heard of it? So we're getting this new generation coming through. People that just want to get better at stuff. And I think we're living down a culture where people believe in self-improvement, they're much more open and honest about it. So I think that's how it's changed a lot. - There's no problem in the press with someone saying, I read James Clears' atomic habits though. But there is a problem with someone saying, I take dating advice or I'm taking a course to help to pick up women. I still think there's a fair bit of stigma attached to that. Why is it. - It's changing, it is changing a little bit. But yeah, it's still there, but for women to learn how to date men is perfectly acceptable. Have you seen all these people popping up, teaching women how to date men? And I'm like, well, why is that acceptable? Why is that acceptable when this isn't? - I don't, so I've thought about that question a lot. I don't really know. I think, I want to know, like. - But you're not trying to get them to bed. We're going to try to do something much, much more sophisticated that's trying to get a relationship. Well, I'm sorry, that's much more manipulative than getting someone into bed. Get someone to want to be in a relationship with you by any means necessary. Like, I would do anything to get that man to put a wedding ring on my finger. I would be like, God, that's like some hardcore manipulation there that you have to do. You'd be like a completely different person. Get someone into bed. I think it's. I just don't think it's so manipulative, personally. - So you're saying that the impact of a short-term interaction by a guy being more effective is less than the impact of a long-term interaction where a woman might take these tips and then use them to have a five-year marriage with someone? - How many times have I heard my male friends say, "As soon as I married her, she changed." She lost a sheep on weight, that's not one thing, got really fat, and actually a drinking problem. You know, I've heard it all. I think men are the same. A lot of women marry men ago, something's changed, but I think I've heard a lot of women have completely changed that they've got the prize, that the ultimate prize for women that they've married. I've done the whole marriage thing. I know what to do it again, but most women, they get the marriage like, "I'm good now. "I'm good, I want someone to look after me, "take care of me, have children, have a nice life." You'll love me and I'm like, "What, you're going to divorce me now?" Men really would do anything to avoid a divorce. I was a whole year, I don't know why men even marry anymore. I mean, that's crazy. - How much should men think about their physical appearance? So we've talked a lot, men. How much should men think about their physical appearance? - Yeah, I'm physical appearance, sorry, I'm a bit weird. It is important, but you can't become obsessed with it. You've got to do the best you can with yourself, it's all about a good impression. It does make a difference, okay? However, saying that, I'm a very looks oriented person compared to the average woman. I'm like a handsome guy and I'll forgive a lot. I'll forgive a lot if he has a nice face and a nice body, but even I will be like, okay, there's a limit with that. - It's so boring that that face can allow you to be. - And as equally I've been with men who are really not attractive, not young, not my type, physically really quite gross and I've been attracted to them. So I always say to guys that game will, game, good game is much better than being a type. Much better, it's much more powerful. So yes, make the best of yourself, but remember, if you make the best of yourself, you're not gonna be every girls type. You're just gonna say, well, this is made a net, but it looks half decent if you're not her type. Welcome the game. - It's much more scalable, I suppose as well. The fact that if you're able to make people laugh, I mean, fucking hell, like if you're able to make people laugh, it's a superpower. Doesn't matter whether you're in a business meeting, whether you're on a night out, whether you're trying to date a girl, whether you're trying to de-escalate a fight outside of a night club, like if you can make people laugh, perfect example of this. I was on the love island, I was on the first season of love island. - What are you? - Yeah, I was first person through the doors. - The first season, when was the first season of love island? - Five years ago. - That's been going that long, has it? - Yeah, hasn't it? Although, I guess we haven't had a season this year, so. Yeah, but yeah, and John Clark, who's now on Tauy, Jonathan Clark was on my season. And he's like a big, big lad, like not huge, but like a bigger fat, and there was like everyone on there was like the classic sort of reality TV physique look. - No. - And John got the Playboy model, the Scouse Playboy model, Hannah, he got her because he's just got bottomless charisma. Like the guy is, the guy is just, he's from Essex, got that like classic sort of wide boy mentality, and he just goes and got, he's got so many stories, really funny center of attention, despite the fact that physically, you know, there was guys on there that were ex bodybuilders, and professional, ex professional athletes, and all this sort of stuff. But again, with that, John was demonstrating his value through being able to make people laugh, through being personable and easy to relate to, and funny, you know? - You're the question for you. When you are on Love Island, and I appreciate that the girls, a person I don't like to look, this Instagram kind of weird face that girls have, but you know, maybe that sort of thing. When you were there and you saw these beautiful girls, the one that you almost attracted to, was she the prettiest one, or was she the one with more gay? - So my season, I make the joke that our season was kind of like a dress rehearsal for the rest of them, but I wasn't attracted to any of the girls on my season, which was the challenge that I came up against, and I couldn't fake it, like I'm like. - No, they're pretty. - I didn't find them attractive. - Oh, okay, physically, okay, fine. - I didn't find them physically attractive. I found some of them interesting, but I didn't find them physically attractive, and that was a huge challenge, like going on a dating show and not finding girls attractive is it, but then the showrunners kept coming in and saying, "cause the guys weren't being that forthcoming, they had real challenges." Like a couple made it to the final of season one of Love Island as friends. Like you can't imagine that happening now, and the reason I suggest that that happened was that there was a mismatch between what the producers were putting in for the girls and what the producers were putting in for the guys. And that must work in both directions to a degree, but they kept on coming in and they were saying, so what sort of girls are you attracted to? Why are you not, like how come you're not to sort of fuss about this then, you know, and a lot of the guys said, "Well, I tend to sort of prefer quite petite girls, "maybe girls who go to the gym and this then, you know, "I shit you not." Season one of Love Island had Amazon women, like every girl in heels was as tall, if not taller than almost all of the guys that were in there. And it's like, you know, it's not like the girls are great, but they're just not massively my type. And there's only so far that you can kind of push that. - People don't need a poos. - No, it wasn't. It wasn't. - Oh, I'm joking, I'm kidding. - I know you are. - But yeah, I mean, it's a good example, what you're saying. My ex, my ex-husband was very handsome, but my ex- boyfriend before him was really ugly. He wasn't a hideous, he wasn't a quasi-modo, but he was quite an ugly guy, got any woman. But anyone. Absolutely fearless, plain to win all the time, use jealousy plotlines and women, understood that jealousy makes women more attracted to guys. He was a force of nature himself, but he also was, he was funny, he was quite funny, not that funny, but he had so much banter, so much banter, and he was always escalating, and he always had one foot out the door, which means I'm not depending on you, I'm not needed. And women love it, really, really love that. They don't want a guy to need them, they want a guy to want them. - How does jealousy turn women on? - Because if a woman gets jealous, she's, okay, it's not that, sorry. It's not so much that jealousy turns on women, it frustrates them, but once the woman is feeding jealous, it increases her attraction. It's like, it's kind of like, it's linked to the fact that she thinks, she wants your attention and you're giving it to another girl. That's the whole point, if she doesn't care about you, you're giving attention, don't give a shit. But, you know, if you can see, right, okay, this is working a little bit, she's, you can't overkill it, it's fine balance also, because there's some guys that other way, they're just too much, you know, and it's like, it's all stick and no carrot. There's got to be a little bit, she's just got to feel, in order to appreciate you, she's got to feel that she can't second guess you, it's really important, and you guys were seeing after, never let women second guess you. - What's that mean? - Got a bit, like she's saying, okay, so I texted him, so he'll text me in five minutes, like he always does. You know, everything is just predictable, over here he's gonna do is predictable, he's a safe bear. They don't wanna, he can't go, like I said, don't go too far the other way, I'm saying calm the bad boy or anything, but you know that old saying, like treat them mean to keep them keen, it actually, it doesn't really mean be a bastard to them, it means just keep them second guess you little bit, don't be too predictable, never ever get needy, always show that you have other options if she doesn't want you, but that's really what it means. And let's, alterations make a big difference. - I understand, I'd be again interested to hear any girls that are listening, if they've been with a guy, dating a guy that they've found to be attractive, but then there was a, some switch turned on where he went into needy, predictable, boring mode, and if that ended the attraction for you. I wonder how many guys and girls are sufficiently reflective about what wasn't successful, about a dating experience? It's quite easy for us to just, oh well, she wasn't that this or he wasn't that that, and you know, just that kind of throw reasons around, whereas if you actually were to look at what happened, I'm gonna guess that a lot of people would come upon some of the realizations that you've identified. - Yes, and I think people need to be honest, so when I talk to girls and, or girls, when I talk one on one with girls, so we say yes, yes. Sometimes when it's on social media, it's like, oh no, no, no, I only want a nice guy, so I'm like, you know, look at the stats, you know, those are nice guys running around, and what is a nice guy? What they're saying is they want a good guy. Okay, that's not a nice guy. Having a good man in your life, I'm telling you, he's got an element to him. - What's it different from seeing a good guy in a nice guy? - Okay, so the good guy, I'm gonna say, simplify it, okay? The good guy shows elements of the bad guy. The bad guy shows elements of the good guy and those are the men who are successful, okay? And then you've got the people who are too good and they end up nice category and then you've got the bad guys who are too bad and they become one dimensional. So it's doing a lot of things. So if you say, look, I'm one of those people, I like to treat women well, I like to hold a door, get the bill for them, I like that. I respect women, that's who I am, good, let's work with that, okay? But make sure that you're not so good that you're not section escalating, that you're being really safe with what you're saying and not voicing your opinions. A little tip for the guys who are really like, I really respect women, is to counterbalance that with being a bit of a bad boy in bed. This is very interesting, it's that contrast that's very attractive. So I went on a date and I'm going to be quite personal here, I had a boyfriend and he was, you know, the good guy, very polite, everything. And it was getting a bit kind of like, ooh, need a bit of spice here. And he let over during our dinner. And I was kind of like in that mode of saying, you know what, this is not really working out. And he said, I can't wait to fuck you later, really hard. And I was like, oh, right, okay, that's what I was looking for, okay? But if it's been a bad guy, like kind of, you know, a bit of a bad guy feel, which I don't know what I can do both. And he said, say, let's be like, please, please. - So you're the same. - It's overkill. So the bad guy, what is interesting is women will go for a bad guy because you'll show that the sensitive side in bed or the vulnerable side. And it's that contrast. So flipping it around, when I speak to men, a lot of guys say, like, I like the out of the dominant woman. I said, yes, but I bet you like it to be quite submissive and bed. And you like her to be like, quite vulnerable when no one's looking in that. Yes, because it's a contrast. They're going to go for a very dominant out the woman and she's dominant and alpha in bed. There's no other side. And it becomes boring. I had to learn to do that because I'm quite like tariff and direct. And I noticed that the guys that really like me are the guys who've seen my vulnerable side. When I hide that vulnerable side from guys, they're like, you know, let's call it a day love. That's my tip for guys that they want to be the good guy. Go for it. That's your thing. And I encouraged that. I don't try to change people like that. But my God, you need to show different element to keep her on her toes. I love that. So finishing up what dating and attraction advice do you have for women? We've given a lot for men this evening. What are the what are the things that women can do to either help men be better data's or to be better data's themselves? To help men become better data. Obviously, as we've said this evening, like as a high level thing that I've noticed is if a guy comes over, if you're single and a guy comes over, and you're with your group of girlfriends, don't keep your back turned to him when someone comes up because it's the same girls that I know because I've seen I've had 2000, 3000 people work for me over the last 10 years and they'll all be between the ages of 18 and 21. And during that time, you have more relationships and you do lectures. And the girls that complain about being single, about not being able to find a good guy are the ones who when they're on a night out with their girlfriends, and a guy comes up and tries to talk to them will give him this sort of weird sneering like. It's that yeah that over the show that over the shoulder thing and it's like what fucking hell darling like do you want do you want to have a do you want to give a guy a chance or do you want to look cool in front of your fucking mate? You've no chance. This is my advice for ladies out there. So I have a really interesting question. Oh, great question. Something really good that gives him that open goal that opportunity and if he fucks up his loss what like I'd say something like. God I'm generally very nice to guys that speak to me. I'm really quite a nice person. I guess it's a dating as a dating coach. You're never going to be a prick to guys that are trying to do the thing that people. But even when I was young I was never I don't know one of those people that just you know I could be ruthless when the time was up I'd be like okay done but I was never like something to I never went like that I never I just see a horrible thing to do to another human being. It's wild people do that horrible. Why do that. I would ask something like I said say listen what's your favorite film. I really would I would just say very corny and something dorky like that because if they're gonna fucking bait me. Sure shame intention or that other bloody film that men love what's it called. Well, we're going to capture and it's just terrible film that every man loves. What's that? Inception or something. I'm done. I'll just say no I'm sorry I'm done. I gave you the chance. Okay, I just said something different. Ah you could say something like you know what would you do and why you love it. Give an opportunity. So you can really give them a chance right what are you going to say in these things like funny, witty or they're just gonna look I'm going to carry on playing really nice and say but then you can think okay just like you don't be all on do because that's nice for you. I have to go now something but at least you know the guys like had that chance at least. That's cool. I think one thing that I hope girls take away from this. I know we've given a lot of advice. I promise you I'm trying to find a guy or a girl that can come on and can do the same thing for girls. I think there's an awful lot that both genders have to learn from hearing dating advice for the other side. I know that girls have just had sit through an hour of like learning like this is how guys can pick up other girls. But there's a lot of insights that you can glean from that as well right to reflect on yourself. Maybe that's the way that I am. Maybe it's this. The main thing that I'd love girls to take away from this. I can take you something. For girls. Then are very vulnerable. Don't believe all that kind of. They come to me. They're very vulnerable and most of them really are looking for love and that's not me being corny and trying to finish on a high note. Yeah, they want to screw around. They want to fuck and they all fuck us rubber. No, no question. But deep down they really are looking at six and a half of the world. I'm looking for the one. I think that every you know there's it's easy to tarman with one brush right to say the way that men act between the age of 17 and 25 is just you can extrapolate that for the rest of time. Obviously not evidently that. The video goes down and stuff you know looking at the video is a big part of it. I mean 39 year old man is not got the libido of an 18 year old just does not so that means okay like sex but it's not that everything is about getting a quick shag you know it's it's not that anymore it's about something else about yes good sex but with a loving relationship. And that changes the requirements or what a man is looking for so yeah I think using using that model like that whatever you have experienced as a girl as a young dating in the dating world between the ages of whatever 18 25 and maybe 18 30 or something like that. And then extrapolating that forward just running that same script and thinking that this is the way that it's going to be for the rest of time like you have to appreciate that that's not going to be the case. But the main thing that I want girls and guys to take away from this is that it's fucking terrifying for most guys to go up and talk to a girl like it really really is a big deal. And I know that that's so lame and it's like such a wet thing to say that oh my god you went up and spoke to a girl like but we've just identified there's bond disposal experts firing and policeman out there who are scared of saying hi my name's John. Can I buy you a drink like you know the fact that you've got that says absolutely everything and hopefully today we're going to have taught guys look here are some ways that you can overcome approach anxiety you need to have. Expand that domain of competence to progressive overload make yourself become less sensitive to it you need to escalate you need to have things to say and girls on the flip side of that it's like be receptive to it you know if a guy comes up to unless you're in a relationship or even that can be done with a bit of class and grace right like you don't need to give the guy who you're not going to be in a relationship with anyway the like that sure I can't do the shoulder thing you know the shoulder thing I mean yeah yeah I can't do it girls every girl is innately born with the do you know what I'm saying. Every girl is innately born with the do the dirty look over the shoulder skill but got you guys guys guys that have it but like don't give them that like that guy might have plucked up a fucking ton of courage to come and speak to you and the fact that you're in a relationship right now should mean that you should hope like help that person to get to what a relationship as opposed to this thing that people in fucking relationships doing guys do it as well. But girls do it a lot where because they're in a relationship they use it as a yardstick to beat single guys with it's almost like a guy can come up and they don't need to engage and they can almost be really really vicious with the way that they respond because they're like what I've got a boyfriend and it's like yeah you fucking wouldn't have acted this way six months ago. Yeah, so smoke so just be more fucking gracious man and this doesn't mean what's one of the main things that we've said today you need to have this polarity you need to have this masculine and feminine energy going on you need to not just be the one thing across the board this homogenous playing I love that thing what was it not playing to win what is that. don't play it, the case where most people are playing not to lose, he'd play to to where this game theory is gambling. - I love that. So I think that, you know, a lot of people that's terrified. And again, like if a guy's done that, it's probably because he's plucked up a fucking ton of courage to come over and speak to you, would your group of girlfriends or wearing pretty little thing dresses, like, you know, you read bottoms on, like, be gracious about it. - Yeah, you know the backstory, absolutely. You just don't, you could be a ditch or, but he also could be someone suffering from really bad anxiety in you're the first person he's ever spoken to, you know, in his whole life. You don't know the backstory. I just never been horrible to a guy that's approached me. I mean, I've been kind of like, you know, I've got to go thank you, but I've never been, I've never done that look. I've never done it. It's really, it's funny. Even some of my friends, just I don't hang on them, those kind of people much. I'm not, I would say to you. - I think maybe, - You know, I think this person's not for me. I just know it's not. I'm always kind of like, you know, thank you, but no, thank you. But, - Maybe if there's, - Nice to meet you. - In a situation, how do you think, what can guys do to help other guys date and what can girls do to help other girls date? Is there anything that you think that they can do? Like how can you gas your friends up so that they go over and speak to someone? 'Cause it's not often, like, have you ever, here's a good one for you, the number of girls have come over to me and said, "Hey, my friend over there thinks that you're really whatever whatever this is." It's like, all right, fucking hell. Like that's, that is such a, 'cause what do you do? 'Cause the girls still sat with all of her friends. Do you go over and just like appear within the group of friends that have all been talking about you? - I would just say, well, tell her to come over here. I was just so, that. - Great point. Show of value. - Tell her what you've gotta show value. If you go there, maybe you're going to a line's then. It's on her turf. It's like, that's her, her territory. Which she, you know, just say to you, she's gorgeous. Give her that, that bit of encouragement. - Yeah, she's gorgeous, your friend. Tell her to come over. Just that, that's what all I would say. Because you, if you just say, I'll tell her to come over. The girl might be a bit nervous also. Like, oh, what if, you know, what if he doesn't like me? But if you've said, oh, she's gorgeous. Okay, fine, she's going to have that confidence to come over to you. 'Cause what if, wouldn't it be a bit nervous to you? Women are a bit all this, or so, trust me. - That's why you're professional. What can you guys do? Anything that guys can do to help their mates? - Oh, not really. It's awful for a guy to come over and say, my friend likes you. It's not even cute. It's okay. - That's just how it is. - If you say, it's fine. But the best thing to do is, it's the thing one of the best things that we do because it's experiment, but we went out with one of our students and I put him with one of my wing guys. And I said, just trust me. And so just trust me of what I'm going to tell him to say about you. So there was some girls at the table. When he went, he could feel that there was no interest being built when the student went, that I got this, don't worry. So this is my friend. He's like, he's such a player. So it's best that you're kind of avoiding him, just a total player. But anyway, and then when he got back, the girl was really interested and because she'd already heard this and was like, he's like, you said that and he's like, yeah, it's working, don't worry about it. But the other thing to guys, please enter girls, if you have a male friend, please please, if you have a male friend, you want to set him up someone, never ever introduce me as a really nice guy. (laughing) So you know what? He's a good guy. Be careful of him. Be careful. You could do that sort of wink. And you'll find that the girl's much more interested. That only's a nice guy. That means, oh God, set him up with everybody. He's been single for a while. It's just big red flashing lights, right? Yeah, little things like that. I see so many people, women and men do it and they just, it's a really nice guy. I might just stop. Yeah, if there was ever a way to stop, ruin your friends dating chances. But again, like that comes from firstly a place of good intentions, but secondly, a complete misunderstanding of how dating dynamics work. So today, you've taught people some things that are hopefully going to stop them from being quite so shit, both guys and girls. If people want to find out more, guys want to take it to the next level, where should they go? OK, again, my website, kezi-noble.com. I'm also on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube. Yeah, subscribe to my YouTube channel. That's where most information's coming from. 75 million views in accounting. Oh, wow. That means it's demand out there. 75 million views. There's a lot. 75 million guys think he's a fuck sake. Well, maybe it's just one guy watching it 75 million times. Oh, and that's what I think it is. Just this one very, very single. It's just me watching my own video again. On the street. That's exactly the same thing that I do. Look, everything that we've spoken about will be linked in the show notes below, including kezi's website. What have you got? You got a seven day challenge. What stuff have you got if you want to do them? I have the, if you don't want to come over to London and we've got the home training, acceleration home training program. And if you do want to get your hands dirty, you want to check out the seven day mastery program, which we had to stop during the lockdown. But now we've reopened. And we're already really busy. Actually, it's such a good time to meet women. I've noticed it. Like everyone's talking to each other. Because they're like, I'm free. I'm out. Finally, I've got some fucking social contact again. These are real, like, these programs that I'm running, we don't just create, like, kind of like supplemental shifts. I mean, these are mental breakthroughs. These are huge. We've got so many video testimonials. That's why I always say to people, look, you know, it's not me just saying that. I've got hundreds of video testimonials. Go to my website, look at the video testimonials. Then guys from every walk of life, you're really honest. But in their faces out there, and saying, this has completely changed my life. So I hope to do the same for you. (laughs) - Fine. - Not you, but anyone, isn't it? - Hey, no, Kessie, I'm single as fuck as well. So I need all the help that you can get. Look, thank you so much for coming on. It's been awesome. I've really, really enjoyed it. Hopefully everyone's taken something away. I want to know what you think. Like, is the dating world fucked at the moment? Is it completely terrible? And do we need Kessie's help desperately? Also, if anyone's got any suggestions for who I can get on as a dating coach for women, like leave it below. I'll try and get in touch with them, and I'll try and get them on as well. And then we can learn the equivalent red pills for girls that we've just learned for guys. (dramatic music)