A Web Of Deceit, Sex & Murder - Keeling, Virginia

This week, in Keeling, Virginia, a bloodbath with two butchered people and some ominous last words lead to one of the craziest murder conspiracies ever, with an unlikely pair of planners and their recruited team of losers and screwballs. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another crazy, crazy episode of Small Town Murder. We have another just really wild, twisted onions and layers and all sorts of things coming apart here, so it's going to be wild stuff. Before we get to that, though, absolutely head over to Shut Up and Give. Give me murder.com. Get your tickets for live shows, everybody, the live shows. Yeah, they're coming up this weekend, if you're listening to this when it's coming out. September the 18th, Milwaukee at the Pabst. Not sure if any tickets are left for that. We released the rest of ours. We don't know. September 19th, though, the next night, State Theater. We know there's tickets left for that, so get your tickets and be there. Come and see us. Yeah, get in there. And then Dallas on October 3rd. Tickets available there. San Jose, October 16th. October 17th, Sacramento. November 13th, Tarrytown. Just about sold out, everybody. So last minute if you want to get the last few of those tickets. And then the next night, November 14th, outside of Boston in Medford, get your tickets for that as well. So do that right now. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also, check out our other shows, Crime and Sports, which we promise you you don't have to like sports. We swear you just have to like funny stories about people who screwed everything up and didn't really have to. Just unnecessary, unforced errors, which is fun. Yeah. Just super stupid opinions. Oh, my God. We love. Want to hear people complain about Glacier National Park? Go ahead. How could you? Yeah. Not enough bears. Too much bears. That's how we get it. It's crazy stuff. It's so much fun. And then get yourself Patreon as well. That's huge. Patreon.com slash crime in sports, just like the name of that show you should listen to there. And that, anybody $5 a month or above, you get everything we put out. Everything. Everything we put out. Yeah. As soon as you subscribe, you're going to get almost 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before. Boom. Right away. And then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports and one small town murder. And you get them all, everybody. Every last damn drop of them. This week is no different. What you're going to get this week for crime and sports, we're going to talk about Lawn Chair Larry. What a guy. Sounds like a failed UFC fighter. It's a nickname. Lawn Chair Larry Brooks or something. But no, it's a guy in the 30s and 40s. Tried to make an aerial device from a lawn chair. And it's, you can imagine how that worked out. It's pretty crazy. Then for small town murder, Donner Party Part 2. It's getting cold and they're getting hungry, everybody. It's about to happen. Sharpen up your knives and forks and bring all the salt and pepper you can muster. Because it's going to be wild stuff there. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all that and more. And that more is, in addition to all that, you also get all the shows we put out. Crime in sports. You're still watching. Stupid Opinion. Small Town Murder. All ad free with your Patreon. Ad free. Ad free. And in addition to that, you also get a shout out at the end of the show. Where, don't you worry, Jimmy, I'll mess your name all up for you. It's everything you can get for five bucks. Come on. What more do you want? It's a cup of coffee, everybody. So do that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. That said, disclaimer time. It's a comedy show, everybody. This is a comedy show. That means nothing as far as the realness of the story goes. This is 1,000% real. Yeah. We wish we were making this stuff up. I would be Stephen King if I could make up 735 of these stories. That's insane. So trust me. Every last drop of it is real and well-researched. But it's also funny. And you go, how does that work? That sounds kind of creepy. Well, it's not. All you have to do, we figured it out. There's a formula. All you have to do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims' families. That's it. You know why that is? Why is that, James? Because we're assholes. But. But we're not scumbags. That's pretty simple, I think, right there. There's plenty of other stuff to make fun of. We make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Who cares? It's just fun. It's all in good fun. Some bumbling police force doesn't do their job and wants to murder or wander free and kill more people. That's deserving of mockery. Certainly. We make fun of murderers because fuck them. What do we have to do? We don't know what we're doing. We can't go take the ramen away from them. It's the only recourse we have, though. But, you know, so if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a wild story. Pull up a lawn chair, Larry. Let's go. Let's go, Larry. If you think that true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, then maybe we're not for you. Or maybe we are. Give it a chance. Either way, no complaining later. That's what we want to say here. That said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back. What do you say? Clear the lungs here. One of those. And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. All right. Let's go on. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. We're doing it. We're going to Virginia this week. All right. My goodness. Keeling, Virginia. K-E-E-L-I-N-G. Keeling, Virginia. It's in southern Virginia. Way southern Virginia. Right in the central part. So it's right in the meat of Virginia. This is kind of the middle of nowhere here. There's not really close to anything. It's about an hour and 45 minutes to Raleigh, North Carolina. Seems to be about the closest big place. About three and a half hours to Norfolk, Virginia. and four and a half hours to our last Virginia episode in Pound, Virginia, episode 688, A Mystery of Stupidity. Old Pound Town. Going to Pound Town. Yeah, we made a lot of those jokes. Sure. This is in Pitzelvania County. Pitzelvania. Pitzelvania. Pennsylvania, but Pitt, P-I-T-T. It's like Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. It seems like that's the name that – all the people in Pittsburgh were like, damn it, so close. We could have done that. That would have been, fuck, we blew it. That's so much easier. So much easier. Area code 434. A little bit of history. Keeling was named for James C. Keeling, who owned a store in the location of the town and was also the first postmaster. A lot of towns named after railroad executives and the first postmaster. And just a dude that worked for the railroad. Yeah. The postmaster really seemed to be like a big deal back then, I guess, because that's the only way communication happened in the early 1800s. There's no telegrams. It's like Kevin Costner made a movie about it. That's the whole thing, yeah. Going back to day one there. So it became, I guess that's a big deal. He's the center of the town. He knows everybody. He was the son of Thomas and Margaret Keeling, who were born in Ireland. And these people were prominent in this area and all that kind of thing. And Danville, the family, ended up being big, which is Danville is about 20 minutes away from here. But here's some history of the town. And we're going to talk about this on a Patreon for Crime and Sports one of these days. On August 28th, 2019, three people were found shot to death in a house on Keeling Drive. Fuck. Yeah. They found basically this guy shot his mother, his sister, and his nephew, who was a year old. Okay. What? Yes. Now, the suspect, 18-year-old Matthew Bernard, was arrested after a chase during which he was running around buck naked during the chase. He's running through the streets naked after slaughtering three people. Now, the 25-year-old woman killed was married at the time to a Tampa Bay Rays pitcher in their system, a minor league pitcher named Blake Bivens, who was the father of the deceased child and this lady's husband. Yeah, that's tough. Now, here's some reviews. There's no reviews for the town, but this is for Pittsburgh. Pennsylvania County, which I assume it's probably pretty steady across the county here, has 3.2 stars on niche out of 69 reviews. That is not good. It's doing great. That's not good. Let's do a positive. Here's five stars. It's a calm and peaceful area to live. Very family-friendly area to raise your kids. Yeah. That's it. Okay. Peaceful. Here's three. There's nothing in this town. It's all just land. The only thing you can really do is go bowling and go to the movies, and the people here are all nosy and racist. All of them. Jesus. Nosy and racist. What is that? What do you got in there, black guy? What's going on? Who you having? Mexicans over for dinner? I'm nosy and racist. Do I smell enchiladas? Get them out of here. What's going on in there? Yeah. All right. Here's three stars. I personally was born and raised here. Personally. Good. If you said I was born and raised here, I'd go, personally born and raised here? Oh, man. I familiar with every corner or hangout spot. I love this area and wish to bring success back to this area. He's going to bring it back all on his own. The future for the area does not look very good. People always say to get out while you can. Oh, that's. It's one of those towns where people go get out while you can. They tell that to like 16 year olds or like, you know, ominously and shit well they sit on the hood of a firebird drinking some fucking malt liquor get out while you can boy you don't want to be like me boy just welding scars all over him going don't run from this town boy black soot that doesn't wash off let's see but i would prefer to come back and make it an even better area than it already is to me so he's gonna personally he's gonna come back and prove improve the area yeah here's two stars crimes are getting worse here in danville virginia that's very close by this area was one of the first areas discovered in the new world many years ago no no it wasn't danville virginia is not one of the first no how far down the list of new places is there's plymouth rock and danville there's just those two one and then two um let's see uh this town has a lot of history behind it we just gave it to you it's a guy with a post office and a devil raised pictures it's there's not a ton but instead of blooming crimes seem to be getting worse shootings keep happening drug busts slash cells and robberies i guess sales is what they were going for and then finally two stars and this is relevant to our story that's why i put it in here when my son had an accident it took the ambulance 45 minutes to get to the scene because they were lost and didn't know how to get here what are your fire department it's very rural and i think that's part of it is if there's some areas where they're like where the hell is that i don't know they have to get out you can't put mile marker into google it's just yeah to a dirt holler that goes up somewhere so anyway people in this town uh population and this is for the zip code of two four five six six so this is more than just the town proper twelve hundred people in that zip code um now it's the by the way they say this is from spurling's best places which is a website that has stats and all that kind of thing they give like a little breakdown of the town just in terms of you know it's this it's that they said located in pittslevania county virginia it offers visitors and locals alike plenty to do the county is home to several local businesses including davis's store davis's store lee's hardware and miller's pharmacy and then they go on to some that's what there is to do go to davis's store head on over to miller's pharmacy do that and the stats are weird here the men women breakdown it is fifty nine percent women here fifty nine that's are they killing all the men what's happening how is that possible i don't get it that's that is that's a lot that's like world war two there were stats like that because all the men were overseas this makes no sense um zero never happened on this show before that high never never especially for twelve hundred people it makes no sense median age here forty eight point one it's about ten years older than the national average everybody here is married i don't know how because every apparently every man here must be married because it's about fifty nine percent married people here okay so they must all be married um there's about average single with children um race in this town it is seventy one percent white twenty nine percent black that's it that's it that's it the chinese food must be terrible in this town i bet just wow a god damn terrible that is that's never happened either i'm telling you this place is a anachronism or whatever the hell here uh. okay uh. thirty six point nine percent of the people here are religious uh. alright uh. and that is we're going to take a guess of what that is you think it's baptist twenty two and a half twenty two and a half percent baptist and no one else crack six percent that's it she's just just baptists here uh. it is zero point zero percent catholic zero point zero percent lutheran and all that it's it's pretty there right what a weird town it's a weird town unemployment here a little bit low a little bit under the national average median household income of this place not terrible sixty five thousand nine fifty six which is in the ballpark of the national average within five grand of it uh. now cost cost of living one hundred is regular average here it's seventy nine pretty affordable and the housing is the super low thing median home cost here one hundred thirty five thousand dollars it's great is not bad if you can pull in sixty five grand a year in your homes hundred thirty five grand you're doing pretty well uh. i mean with the amount of women here that's about right that's about the uh. the pay scale gap and that seems like it so if we've convinced you damn it you must see what's what's going on in keeling davis's store whatever it is we have for you the killing virginia real estate report average two-bedroom rental here goes for this is we haven't heard these numbers in a while seven hundred ninety dollars Oh, what a dream. It's almost 1,500 in the rest of the country. So that is, it's almost half. Why own when you can rent for that? That's what I mean. Well, here is a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,404-square-foot house. That's your starter. That's your starter. It's on 5.23 acres, and it is currently going up for auction and under foreclosure. Wow. The estimated auction price for this is $150,200. It'll be lower than that. The problem is, it says, this property is being sold as is, and the occupancy status is assumed to be occupied. Buyer takes all responsibility. So you've got to then roust these people from their home. You've got to get a hold of a constable after you win this auction. And then good luck, because it's like the middle of nowhere Virginia. They're probably going to set up. Oh, they've got rifles. There's going to be. There's going to be shit coming from the trees in this. This is like, no one's coming to get my land. They nicked the census, man. Yeah, we got him last year. Here's a damn Tennessee Valley Authority ain't going to give me electricity. Here's a three-bedroom, one-bath, 960-square-foot. It's all redone on the inside. It's on.76 acres, but very small. $189,000. I don't think that's going to sell for that. No, that's going to drop. And then here you go. Four bedrooms. Three baths. 3,665 square feet. It's a big brick house. Looks new. It has like a triple carport, which I don't think I've seen before. Like all brick and stuff. It's interesting. No doors? No doors. It's all open with a roof and some pillars. But brick. 78.45 acres. This is $2 million. Shit, look. $800,000 with a $50,000 price cut that just happened. Holy. Please come take half of Virginia. It's free, basically. Not free. $800,000 is a lot of money. But 78 acres is crazy for $800,000. And then with a big house on it. That's wild. Yeah. Things to do here. Yarnival 6. Yarnival. What the fuck is that? Well, they are celebrating music and yarn and arts. Oh, yeah. Don't fucking besmirch the yarn, James. No. Not at all. They're celebrating. Oh, yeah. Jimmy got some shit for saying. He's just wading those waters. Making a joke about yarn. The yarn ladies, tell you what, while you're knitting, you got a lot of time to type, too. And strong thumbs. Yeah, and strong thumbs to type with. No, I really feel like that's the problem. I feel like when people would complain back in the day, and this is not the yarn people, anybody, they'd have to get paper out. Yeah. And, like, address something. And it would cost them money. They'd have to put a stamp on it. Halfway through that, you're like, this isn't worth it. Who cares? Whereas now, it's like, I heard something. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Even if you don't think it five minutes later. To make the phone call, you'd have to go find the phone number somehow. Oh, get it. Find it, then wait on hold. Who's doing that? So, Yarnival says, We will continue to feature whatever kind of music we feel like alongside our feature of alternative forms of entertainment, i.e., magic carnival acts, circus performers, etc. You won't be seeing any super, quote, big names at our festival, but you will be seeing talent that's, I'm sure. Equal to, or even greater than, said big names. I don't believe you. Come on. Most likely, some will even go on to become big names. The difference between a band that draws 100 people every night and 10,000 people every night is a tiny speck of dust. No, it really isn't. It's a big chasm. That felt aggressive, the words that they just used. They're angry at people. We offered money to the big names, but they won't play here, so we're not good enough for you. It feels like we're going to have to do it again. It feels like these people have heard that there's a small podcast that makes fun of small festivals. Albeit magic dust, but just a little dust, nonetheless. By the way, the bands that we've talked about have the best sense of humor of anybody. Best. And some of the best merch. And they all, to a T, we've never gotten an angry message from a band. They're always like, thank you for mentioning our name. That's great. They send us shit, even though we were making fun of them. They're great people. Music here. Yarn x 3 will be here. Okay. North Mississippi All Stars. Danger Muffin will be in town. That sounds hot. That sounds awesome. Sneezy. Just Sneezy, without the rest of the dwarfs. No Doc or anybody. None of that shit. Dale and. He went out of his mind. he's all on his own sneezy broke out solo you know tired of dopey's shit sneezy's like stevie nicks he's like listen i got my got hits in me i don't need i got the talent i don't need lindsey buckingham for this shit okay uh dale and the z-dubs pressing strings the hailey jane band scott tornet big daddy love oh my god uh james justin and company fancy gap uh then there's gonna be a bunch of fancy gap and danger that's what i mean a muffin at least it wasn't danger muffin gap that would have been awesome uh nightly campfire jams uh there's a contortionist there's all sorts of mystics and acrobats and shit like that so get in there but what we're interested in crime rate in this town property crime exactly average like exactly average really exactly violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is about one-third above the average what yes i don't know how danger muffin danger muffins in town they stay got to raise the crime rate i don't know what's going especially with the town of 59 women violent what's happening makes no sense i don't know these are some bad bitches james either that or this 41 is like it was a prison camp and they just dumped all the men into here i don't know how this works uh that said let's talk about some murder here here we go all right let's go back in time just a bit quite a bit actually about 24 years we're gonna go back to october 30th 2002 so think about that everybody's got a landline um yeah you have a you probably have a cell phone but it doesn't do shit i mean no it does nothing but call people and if you're really cutting edge right now if you if you shelled out for the new lg maybe take a very pixelated terrible picture that's about the only things this phone is doing do you remember the the t-mobile phones that had t-zones internet it was terrible fucking war yeah i can remember even as late as like 2005 or six like if you wanted to check your email on your phone it was you better settle in for a while it's gonna be a minute good luck it'll be a while for it to populate oh yeah it is gonna take a while then you get it on then you want to click on one that's another 20 minutes good enjoy that um so this is october 30th 2002 at 4 18 a.m. so yeah late night early morning early times pittsylvania county sheriff's deputies are called to and walk into a trailer on five acres off loop road and keeling it's actually on loop road it's not off loop road um now the woman who meets them at the front door tells them my husband is on the floor in the master bedroom and my stepson is in the other bedroom and they're both dead oh so go collect them basically um less men less yeah so her husband is julian clifton lewis jr he was born january 1st 1951 um he is currently before he's in the condition he's in now an electrician at the dan river mill so he works at a mill um so the deputy here goes into the master bedroom and finds julian not dead but alive actually oh so he is alive he's been shot repeatedly with a shotgun i mean he is in pieces this guy somehow staying alive a bunch of shots a bunch of shots um he was making what they've described as slow moans he was just moaning wailing he's in pain it's the end yeah and he kept saying one word over and over and over and over again which dying people do seem to do sometimes here he just kept saying baby baby baby baby baby over and over again that's the only word he would utter so the deputy leans down and asks him his name and he gives it he says julian yeah so they asked him do you know who shot him do you know who should or do you know who shot you do you know who who did this to you who did this and all he'll get out this is and then he'll literally die minutes later the only thing he can get out is he says my wife knows who done this to me oh boy so ask her basically i can't get word she knows just talk talk to her yeah i got a proxy yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna go ahead and die now so um i've seen danger muffin muffin i've done it all it's time for me to go so this poor guy he dies without ever saying anything else that's the last thing his last words were my wife knows who done this to me okay which is pretty that's setting the scene here so the deputies are trying to help him and deputy webb hears this wife on the phone in another room and he writes down what he hears her say on the phone she says i told cj about leaving that back door unlocked that's what she says now cj is the step son he's 25 years old and they do find him dead in the next room shot five times with a shotgun as well both shot a lot yes both shot a lot i mean this is someone she's left alone making sure and she's there so now there's other interesting things about this scene number one the family has a pit bull oh which are pretty protective dogs if you want to you know yeah i mean generally protective they've got a reputation for being yeah a good watchdog even if they're not an aggressive dog because my mother-in-law's pit bulls are wonderful i love them they're sweet as shit but if someone tries to break in they're gonna bite the fuck out of that person that's the kind of dog pretty good there's a reason people have them on yeah junkyard properties pawn shops shit like that yeah they'll they're tough um but this the dog is found locked in the middle bedroom so the dog had no chance to intervene here apparently yeah dog's locked in i wonder if it's like my cat that goes in the bathroom and then accidentally closes the door and then can't get out yeah my my drive has taken to doing that in the laundry room it's i guess you call it your mud room it's this yeah yeah between the garage and the house he goes he follows me out there when i leave and then locks himself in and then he's fucked for however long we've looked for benny who's 140 pound connie corso we've looked for him all over the house and found him just sitting in a sitting behind a bathroom door just thirsty and tired been in here a while yeah i've just been in there we're like where were you he's quiet anyway so why'd you why'd you do this to yourself he's so quiet so if he's missing for a minute you don't notice yeah um so anyway in the fridge there is a bagged lunch okay brown paper bag with lunch inside ready to go um and it says on it i love you i hope you have a good day and also on the bag is a smiley face drawn um and inside the smiley face it says i miss you when you're gone wow all right um i'm so jealous of that yeah that's nice well yeah now i never even got that from my mom no god no no i'm gonna throw a dollar at me and be like yeah dollar 15 they got pizza rolls don't they get 15 out of the can yeah we had a can of change that's it now julian the medical examiner determines that julian died of extensive blood loss but not it took him over an hour to die they figured out 45 minutes to an hour to die so he has been there a while okay a while shot shot been there a while so like he might have been able to be saved if he had been gotten medical attention an hour earlier so let's find out about this family a little bit here by the way the son cj is charles james lewis uh he is born april 16th 1977 25 years old at this point goes by cj he was born at fort campbell kentucky um yeah yeah so anyway now the wife is the person who was at the received the police officer's office and she was the one who was the one who was the one who said where they were this is theresa michelle wilson bean lewis oh boy they're all in it born michelle wilson first husband is bean and then there's lewis here so those are all her names she's born in danville virginia um born to two textile workers textile mill workers her parents very poor family growing up this is just stuck you know what i mean you can never this is paycheck is we're in real trouble right and we don't have enough money to do anything else or go anywhere or get out of here just enough money to survive to the next paycheck so it's it's tough that is really brutal when like you get your you're sewing your buttons on a shirt job at 16 yeah and then you just do that for 40 years or do that for 20 years and then the mill closes and then you got nothing nothing you have a lot of button sewing experience and nothing else and there's nothing nowhere to work now so that's it's brutal man it's brutal so um her father was melvin wilson senior and her mother's name was dolores uh dolores became something happened to her and she they said she became an invalid she couldn't move she couldn't do things and so theresa took care of her um theresa sang in the church as a girl um she is uh everybody says she has a very good voice very good singing voice yeah she also as this will come out later has an iq of about 72 oh that's exactly forrest gump i think he was exactly 72 so he did great he did fantastic and we all know most people of his intelligence thrive and become multimillionaires, world famous multimillionaires who are very good at running businesses, also excellent business people. So at 16, everybody says, and this is we'll talk about this later, but that she dropped out of school at 16 and married a young man named Billy Bean, not Billy Bean, the Moneyball character. Yeah, exactly. Billy Wayne Bean Jr. Seems like they had a son and they had a daughter. So they have a son and a daughter. Christy Lynn Bean is the daughter. She'll come up. The son doesn't really, he's not really around. Now she's going to end up getting a divorce from Billy Bean, Billy Wayne, and basically from then on kind of gets into painkillers and booze, Teresa does, after the divorce. Not great. Now her mother-in-law from that marriage was Marie Bean. She described Teresa Lewis about as succinctly as a human being can sum somebody up. So what do you think of Teresa? She said, quote, not right. Two words. You know exactly what she's talking about. It's so, it's so succinct. That's amazing. She ain't right. Not right. All right. Well, I think you know what that means. No further explanation necessary. Wrong? It's wrong. For everyone. Yeah. For everybody and everything. Now, Teresa's own dad said that her daughter had run off to get married when she was 16, but then later abandoned her children to run off with her sister's husband. This is before the Lewis, she was married to Julian Lewis and all that. She abandoned both her little kids to run off with her sister's husband. You know what I would say, how I would describe that? Not right. Not right. That ain't right. No, that ain't right. Where did, did she leave those kids with Billy Wayne or did she? It seems like with the parents, it seems like. Seems like she's. With the grandparents. Yeah, her parents just dumped them off, which the 16 year olds, a lot of times they're like, well, my parents take care of everything else I do here. We'll dump them off. So between the divorce in the mid nineties and the year 2000, Teresa worked every low paying job in the county. Basically, if there's a job that's needs no experience in his minimum wage entry, she's done it for a while here. She could never hold a job really. And she would kind of drift around a bit here. But she always had a job. She was always getting another job and always doing something. So that's better than just doing nothing. In 2000, she began working at the Dan River Textile Mill. Oh yeah. Where she met a guy named Julian Lewis. Julian is a recent widower and has three children. Oh, Julian. Poor Julian. So Julian Lewis Jr., who we know about from his dying last words of his master bedroom floor there. He's born in Danville. His parents were Julian Clifton Lewis Sr. and Jeanette Wood is his mom. And he has a sister named Helen. He served in the U.S. Army in Vietnam during that era and then came home to Danville and stayed there. Just in this area. Now, he's an electrician at the Dan River Mill. So he's got a skill in a trade, which is great. This apparently is a huge textile operation that at its height employed more than 10,000 people in this town. Dang. Which is a lot. Yeah. It's a big play. And this was in the area that it was in. There was about 50,000 people there. It employed over 10,000 of them. So I mean, that's- It's 20% of the fucking company. Yeah, that's a lot. 20% of the fucking company. Yeah, that's a lot. So does the town. That's when you see all Main Street closed down and boarded up shit. And that's when things go downhill. Where was it that we were just at where that factory did that? Oh, God. Where the fuck was that? Oh, Buffalo. Buffalo. Buffalo. Yeah. Buffalo. A giant fucking factory. It was huge. As far as you can see, just rusted and shit equipment. Miles and miles. And that's where everyone was employed. The big steel mills up there. And the guy, our Uber driver, was explaining to us that basically that's where everybody worked. And see it now? As we drove past it for 10 minutes. That's why it's taken Buffalo 40 years since then to try to come out of it. You know what I mean? And they're turning it around now. But he's also active at the Faith Church Ministries and even sang on the Praise and Worship team. Sure. I hope they have jackets with their names and like praise on the back. And worship on the tramp stamp. Yeah. Praise, worship. Down each arm. Now, his first marriage, I think about 1969, 1970. Don't have an exact date. But this was to a woman named Paula Jo. Paula Jo. PJ, they called her. So that ended in divorce pretty quickly within the first couple of years. Yeah. They were both like 18, 19. It's about right. No kids from that marriage. Right. 1972, he married Joyce Dale Evans in North Carolina. And that's the woman he's going to be with. What more tells you that you're aging than outliving your spouse? Men, women, that is. Don't do that. If they're wearing it, that means you're too old to wear it. That's what that means. Because you know how you know that? Your kids are wearing it. That's why. Doesn't matter. So basically here, she is described, Teresa, as an on-again, off-again mother who, and this is by someone who knows them well, who could either fill her daughter with joy or send her into bouts of depression. Oh, boy. This is, here's a quote from Brenda Bean. This is Christy's stepfather, Billy's wife after him and Teresa got divorced. Oh, okay. So Christy's stepmother said, sometimes she was happy, sometimes she was depressed. She'd go in her room and she didn't want to talk to us, basically, when they'd try to ask her what she'd do at her mom's house or whatever. Brenda said Teresa and her daughter acted like friends rather than a parent and a child. She said she always treated Christy like a girlfriend. She was never a mother to her. Ew. Not good. Now, Kathy sees this happening, Kathy, Julian's daughter, and she's very protective of her father, obviously, because she's been trying to nurse him back to health and the fact that her mother just died and all that. So she is a little protective and this woman just shows up and the father's like, this is my new girlfriend. There we go. Now, at the time. That he introduced Teresa to Kathy. Kathy had just had a surgery that left her temporarily unable to speak. So she couldn't even say anything. She was just. Yeah, tongue or throat, something like that. No idea. No, I have no clue. She said that Julian brought Teresa into the house and delivered the news all at once. This is my girlfriend, which you didn't know I had. And not only that, she's moving in. She lives here now. Yeah. Yeah. You know how your old room, that's going to be her craft room now. Enjoy. That's what goes on. In fact, Kathy couldn't physically respond. She couldn't talk at the time. So, yeah. Then Teresa says to Kathy, and this is great. They just met. Yeah. They can't talk. Not only that, they're not very far apart in age. Yeah, right. They're within, you know, five years of each other, six years of each other. So it's not like it's, you know, there's some chick that you could have went to high school with, essentially shows up at your dad's house. And he's like, this is my girl. This is my girlfriend. She's moving in. Yeah. You can't say anything. And Teresa says to her, quote, you can just call me mom. Her mom just died six months ago. Call me mom. Yeah. Okay. I know you don't have one. I'm being kind to you. Wow. That's disturbing, isn't it? My closet, Sue Casa. How about that? Yeah, totally. Yeah. So Kathy basically said she did everything she could to distance herself from the world. From Teresa and Christy. She wanted nothing to do with them. She said, I have no interest in these people. And she didn't approve of her father being with her, basically. She thought that Teresa was, quote, overbearing. And she said, I would do my best that I could to ignore them, is what she said. So now CJ took it much differently. And CJ is older than Kathy. Kathy's the youngest. CJ and her are like, what, five years apart at this point in age? Very close. Five years in age, yeah. Very close. And CJ just took it as, okay, that's my stepmom now. Wow. She said he referred to her as a parent. You know, this is my dad and my stepmom, basically. Like, that was that. He just took it as, for whatever it was, at face value. He was pretty easygoing about the whole thing. Yeah. Guys generally do that, right? No, not with their mom. Not with their moms. CJ, though, he's like in the Army Reserves and he does stuff. I don't think he gives a shit, basically. CJ, I think. CJ's got his own shit going on and he looks at it and he goes, well, dad seems happier than he was before. Yeah. He didn't move off his chair for five months and now he's smiling and laughing and, you know, whatever. We watched mom die for eight years. Yeah, fuck it. I mean, I think he took it as that. Like, good, dad's happier. Who cares? Sure. If it makes everybody happy, if I say she's my stepmom, then she's my stepmom. What do I give a shit? Easy enough. Now, Julian's oldest son, Jason, called Kathy within months of Teresa moving into the house. So tell her that, hey, sis, he calls up and he goes, you know, dad's new girlfriend there, the one that he's engaged to now and that lives in the house? I was over there and she made a pass at me. She made sexual advances toward me. Now, they're almost, they're about the same age, too, these two. Right. So, yeah. And he said, I turned her down, obviously. I didn't bang my stepmom. It wasn't, it wasn't. No, no, no. It wasn't innuendo or a little comment. It was, hey, we could fuck. Yeah, it was, hey, those fingers look like they could use a place to rest. Oh, boy. I got a spot for them. Yeah. Yeah, so. Want to check my danger muffin? Who wants to check my oil? Anybody? It's right up there in my danger muffin. He didn't tell his dad, he said, because he didn't want to. Basically, he said, I don't want to hurt. He said, I don't want to hurt your dad, because he seems happy, and he's been so miserable. I can't, what would happen if this, if he found this out now? It would crush him, and then he'd be ten times more depressed than he was before, even. So, he told his sister, and then just sat on it and didn't say anything. All right. Now, they get married, Teresa and Julian. Teresa quits her job at the mill as soon as they get married, by the way, too. Oh. Which, I don't know. She's now a stay-at-home. Now, she's a stay-at-home, which I think was the goal here, anyway. That's a plan, yeah. So. In December of 2001, Jason, the one who she made a pass at, is killed in a car accident. Dead. Dead. What? Fucking. He's just gone now. He's gone. So, that story dies with him, basically. Holy. I mean, Kathy knows about it, but he's dead. So, this guy has now lost his oldest son and his wife within a year. Brutal. The World Trade Center is smoldering right now. Yeah. It's been a rough couple, year and a half. No kidding. This poor bastard. Yeah. So, that's why he's holding onto this Teresa with both hands. It's a life raft at this point. His 50s are fucked up. It's tough. It's real tough. So, they died. It was 23 months apart. The son and the mom died. Then, they got a phone call. Yeah. An unexpected phone call. Apparently, Julian had life insurance. Or, not Julian. Jason had life insurance. Jason did. Yeah. And they called him up. They called Julian and say, we got a $200,000. We got a $200,000 check for you. Which, in the middle of nowhere, Virginia, when you work at a textile mill, 200 grand is anywhere in the world. But, I mean, especially this situation. And, in 2002. That's a bad man's shit. Yeah. Yeah. You might as well have got a guy at your door with a giant cardboard check who had balloons and shit. Like, it's crazy. So, then he took the proceeds in an account with Prudential Securities. And, the proceeds of the account were accessible by only using the money. So, Julian's the only person who can take this money out of the Prudential Securities. In February 2002, they used this money to purchase a home in Keeling. The Loop Road home there. It's five acres of land. With a trailer. They put a trailer on it. Yeah. It was just five acres of land. They stick a trailer on it. Okay. So, the address is Loop Road in Keeling. So, he moves to Reese. Teresa, CJ, Kathy's there for a minute, but she takes off, and Teresa's daughter, Christy. So, it's Julian, Teresa, CJ, when he's around, because he's in the army, too, and does other shit, and then 16-year-old Christy. That's what's going on in the house. There's three bedrooms, two baths on five acres. It's a big trailer. It's a good one. Yeah. CJ, at this point, is a security guard at Unique Packaging, some factory or something. He's also a musician, super into music, and he's in the army reserves, and he has a young daughter named Catherine, as well, I believe, named after a sister. So, he's got a daughter. He served two years of active army duty, and then 18 months in the National Guard Reserve up to this point. So, that's what he's been doing. He better hope he gets out quick. Yeah. I would say so. Now, he's going to be, apparently, they're talking about him. Being deployed, because this is August 2002. If you're in the reserves, you're going somewhere. This is dangerous times. Yeah. So, he goes out and gets an insurance policy, as a lot, most people do when they're going to go overseas, if they're smart anyway. He gets a $250,000 insurance policy on himself, naming Julian as his beneficiary, with Teresa as the secondary beneficiary. So, he's treating her like his stepmother, like a mother. Yeah. So, she's the secondary beneficiary. In August of 2002, he was called up, and he was ordered to report for active duty and deployment to Iraq to follow. That's what's going on. Yeah. So, that's when he bought the insurance and everything like that. His commanding officer later said that C.J. made estate arrangements, executed a will, obtained an insurance policy, all that kind of thing. And he was proud of it, C.J. was. Yeah. Yeah. is responsible. - Yeah, yeah. - When you're in your early to mid-20s as a dude, like anything you do responsible you feel like you have to be like look i'm responsible look i didn't wrap my car around a telephone pole after drinking tequila for four hours isn't that impressive that's all it is um so he wanted them to know that if something happened to him they're gonna get something so sure he sat down sits them both down theresa and julian and says listen i have this quarter of a million dollar policy so you know you guys are covered there and he even handed theresa a document that said basically you know if i die dad gets it but if i die and then dad dies then you get it because you're the secondary if dad dies before i die and then i die then you get it whatever but you're the secondary gives him like gives her the breakdown there then october 30th two things that was august 2002 october 30th is the night in that we started with now the 9-1-1 call came in at 8 55 a.m so a uh pittsylvania pittsylvania county 9-1-1 operator gets a call from theresa come on out to loop road um she said that her husband and his adult son were shot and she says they're both dead right she said that she was in bed with her husband when somebody broke in her house armed with a pistol came into the bedroom and told her to get up he said she said her son julian told her to go in the bathroom and said you go in the bathroom and then he started asking the whoever this intruder was what's going on why are you here so she said she was hit in the bathroom as her husband told her to do and heard all of these shots going off a lot of them 10 in total basically um so she said she reported the shooting occurred sometime between 3 15 and 3 30 yeah and then she stayed in the bathroom she said scared huddled in there and then she finally got enough courage to look around and see if the person was still there and come out and that's when she called 9-1-1 at 3 55 i mean that's two shotguns or one that was reloaded that's a lot of rounds that's a lot of rounds yeah it's it's the guys are loaded with fucking shotguns so um yeah so she reports that and then at 4 18 is when the cops show up so someone broke in my house shot my husband and son took 23 minutes for the police to get there 23 fucking minutes is a long time long time especially when you're shot yeah that's what i mean i don't know if that's that's why i read that review of they didn't know how to get here i think maybe it was one of those things i don't think i lost or if everything's just so far and rural that they it takes a while to get there is loop road an actual loop that goes all the way around the town and addresses loops up to kentucky comes back down we went the wrong way around the loop yeah so deputies harris silverman and cory webb arrive at 4 18 theresa's at the front door tells him where the bodies are like we said husband's there stepson's in there um that's when you hear baby baby baby and um my wife knows who done this to me yeah now he had been shot julian had been shot by shotgun fire in the upper left arm the shoulder the abdomen of the woman and she was shot in the upper left arm and she was shot in the upper left abdomen the pelvis the penis the thighs the legs the arms and the chest that's where he had body everything he's got basically is injured um large areas of tissue in his upper arm shoulder and upper chest had been destroyed or just taken off completely um several of his ribs were fractured plastic wadding from a shotgun shell was lodged in his left lung tissue that's a close shot very close i mean it is a trailer everything's close but still yeah yeah it's close the wadding usually comes out last and slow yeah slower than you know the round but yeah a projectile yeah so that's when he said my wife knows who done this to me but he's laid there like that for almost an hour yeah think about that in that kind of excruciating horror um then he died um that's when they hear i told cj about leaving that back door unlocked theresa on the phone and they're like that's interesting now cj's room he was dead when they arrived he's dead dead um the autopsy shows a total of eight wounds from an undetermined number of shotgun discharges uh he was struck in the back the abdomen the chest the neck the upper left arm the shoulder the elbow the left shot thigh the face and the forearm yeah this one they determined he died pretty quick from these wounds this did not take long this was a a done deal um and like i said the family pit bull locked in the middle room which they were like that's curious it's odd who would break in what pit bull would let an intruder take them to a room and lock them in there and again that's not normal and even more so no pit bulls letting 10 rounds be fired at their owners yeah and then be put in a room no i would think that'd be the first thing you'd do and then the bagged lunch in the fridge um for julian's day uh it's his bagged lunch i love you i hope you have a good day smiley face inside of that i miss you when you're gone when you're gone okay now um julian's death medical examiner determined that julian died of extensive blood loss approximately 45 minutes to an hour after being shot good god they said it was most the most consequential sentence here in this report because that's a big deal think about that how huge that is he was shot and then bled for almost an hour on the floor by the way the house there's a working telephone in the house it's not like the line was cut or anything like that um and theresa was you know conscious but she said she was hiding in the bathroom which also makes sense uh they determined he died from blood loss though that was the death blood loss so it might have been able to put him back together if they if they did that now the scene any clues here the an investigator with the county sheriff's office arrives at about 7 a.m and this is investigator keith isom is working the case here with this jt barrett guy so the commonwealth of virginia attorney so the state's attorney david grimes comes out to see the scene personally in the hours after the killings that's how not this doesn't happen often here day of day of the goddamn da comes out to take a peek around and see what's going on in this case okay this is not routine and not normal uh they said several things the we're wrong at the scene that were odd yeah um there's no force right no forced entry okay the door isn't damaged the lock hasn't been picked nothing's been pried no windows nothing like that um so that's that's a thing uh they're like well probably should your home was probably locked in the middle of the night and there's no how'd they get in basically are they ghosts are they santa claus what happened yeah 3 a.m they're able just to get in the house yeah without disabling or picking or prying or and also they said nothing is ransacked at all nothing nothing nothing's disturbed they nothing there's no nothing taken there's uh they said then the other problem they came up with is the shell casing problem they look around and they collect they recovered five or six spent shotgun shells where uh julian was shot okay which makes sense that's about how much he was shot but then in the room where c j was shot there's no shells anywhere nothing nothing so like why is there less shells than shots and who would pick up some of the shells but not the other room's shells it doesn't make any sense there are no revolver shotguns no that's the only thing so this they said definitely two different weapons and probably two different people with different levels of how to do this yeah somebody in one room doing shooting cleaned up all their shells the other person didn't think to do that that's what they're thinking so that's why they think it's two people um is it just doesn't make sense that one person would go from room to room doing that and not pick up all the shells also while they're shooting someone in one room wouldn't the other person here shitload of shotgun shells and be at least calling 911 at the least if not grabbing a rifle so or running away or running away or a numerous whatever the thing is something going to help their father whatever the fuck it is so especially some military guy he might have ran in there tried to tackle the guy who knows so you don't know uh it's all inconsistent with a single intruder which is what teresa told 911 and told the cops is that there's one guy broke in but i mean she was in bed and if that one guy was in their bedroom and sent her to the bathroom maybe she didn't see the other guy too they're she might only thought there was one guy um so that morning though the morning of the killings yeah we don't even know what's going on but we don't know what's going on but we don't know what's going on we don't even know if the bodies are out of the house yet like or if they've just been taken out of the house i mean there's still gun smoke in the house it's that morning teresa calls mike campbell who is julian's boss at down at the mill and she tells him that julian won't be in today because he's been murdered on account of he's dead yeah and uh when can i get his last paycheck and that i'd like his last paycheck so this guy says well i mean you can pick it up anytime after four we'll get it we'll cut the check and get it ready and can you cancel his health insurance and not take that out that please hey don't do that yeah doesn't need the blue cross blue shield anymore not gonna need the 401k match if you can just skip the dental too i realize it's inconsistent insignificant but just don't do it let's not do that so that afternoon a lieutenant michael booker uh who is cj's commanding officer in the army army reserves calls the home to offer condolences he's been they've been notified of it so they offered he offers to call and gives condolences theresa said quote i'm still in shock the police had me in chatham all day today all up in my face there is no way i would have killed my husband and stepson they guessed that because i didn't get shot that maybe i have done it my husband told me to go in the bathroom so i did and this guy's like i just wanted to say sorry for your loss and hang up the phone this is a lot um that's a that's a weird thing to say yeah she then tells booker who again has no interest in this i'm sure that she is the secondary beneficiary of cj's military life insurance policy and that she has been told that she will be contacted within 24 hours of his death with information about when she gets his money when she gets that money right and this guy's like well uh so sorry for your loss i hope he rests in peace yeah so it's the way it breaks down theresa's the secondary julian's the primary so if cj died alone julian gets the money if julian died alone theresa would inherit julian's estate including the prudential account that holds the balance of jason's two hundred thousand dollars but get nothing from cj but if if both of them are dead she gets the prudential account and two hundred and fifty thousand dollars of cj's insurance money right okay um so that's that's how it had to work um so october 31st two thousand two the next day theresa lewis calls uh julian's boss at the mill again okay she says she's really sorry she didn't get out there to pick up the check the day before i had a lot going on you know how it is my husband died yesterday you know crime scene and all it just gets messy around they're up in my face all up in my face she said when can i get the check so they arranged that theresa calls kathy by the way the night this is the the night of the 30th uh theresa called kathy and tells her that she's already gone over the arrangements with the funeral home so don't worry about it i've already taken care of the funeral kathy's like i would have liked to have had some say but i guess she's the wife so you know she tells kathy all she needs are the names of some of julius or julian's family members um she tells kathy that kathy does not need to come to the funeral home the following day you know kathy comes anyway though right um yeah um while she is describing the or talking to the funeral director trying to figure out caskets and do we do this and headstones she says she's telling him that i'm the sole beneficiary of everything so money is no object let's do it right let's bury these guys right and they're they share they share a headstone i believe here um so a few days after the murders julian's boss mike campbell calls kathy and tells her that she's the only beneficiary of everything so money is no object comes to the house to pay his respects which is very folksy and nice um theresa tells him that julian had bought her a red sports car before he was killed but that she's going to trade it in along with one of his vehicles so she can get something bigger i'm gonna trade two cars yeah two two for one she also tells him plans she has plans to sell the land and the mobile home as well don't want any of this show getting out of here my new car downsize get a little condo in the city you know how it goes here uh so that's what she's saying to him uh november 4th 2002 theresa calls uh lieutenant booker again the commanding officer they have no other reason to speak forever at this point he's dead what are we talking about it's over well she wanted cj's personal effects and that anything he may have left in a barrack or anything like that and a he had provided for the memorial service that the military had for him they had a little memorial service amongst the group that he was in um so she said give me that picture back and send me a shit basically she tells uh he tells her that he'll return the photographs but his personal effects won't go to her they'll go to kathy his next of kin his sister yeah so booker said that really why do you want this kid's belt and extra pair of sneakers what do you care yeah call his sister about the toothpaste that's what i mean what the fuck are we talking about so when she said that no that's bullshit i you're gonna bring them to me as soon as possible i would like you to bring them to me and he said no no i won't it's not goes to the next akin you're not the next akin so then she's a bottle of la looks lady what do you want it's a bottle of gel we're good jesus uh she here but his fidel sassoon moose will be dispersed throughout the platoon okay so she again then asks about the life insurance money yeah and reminds him that you know i'm the second beneficiary and they're both dead and he said well sounds like you're entitled to the insurance money uh you know i'm not an insurance agent again i'm officer of this guy um and she said well that's fine kathy can have all of his effects as long as i get the money okay fine then theresa walks into a bank with a check drawn on julian lewis's prudential securities account purportedly signed by him payable to her for the amount of fifty thousand dollars wow that's a lot that's a lot of money um yeah a bank employee refuses to pay him up to a hundred thousand dollars because the signature doesn't match the signature that they have on file for julian because she forged it after he died obviously so this is uh interesting um so obviously he's his signature is the only one that'll work now on the day of the funerals theresa calls kathy before the service to tell her that she's just come from the hairdresser she just got her nails done and she has bought a beautiful funeral suit to wear so oh great i'm set quaffed polished and fucking dressed here looking looking sharp yeah uh she offers at that point to sell kathy the land in the mobile home would you like to buy it she so they're having this conversation kathy's like i don't know i'm what this is the funerals today like it's all there's other shit on my mind there's a lot going on yeah then out of nowhere she says quote this is theresa quote you don't think i had anything to do with this do you why would you even ask that so that's weird then at the memorial service even weirder shit here okay um kathy uh said that christy bean the 16 year old that the daughter there came up to her and hugged her which she found kathy found quote very very strange which listen kathy okay i'm up i'm pretty yeah that's what normal people do yeah of course for a funeral yeah you should see an italian funeral holy shit you get kissed 700 times yeah so she said that was quote very very strange that someone hugged the daughter of a dead person at a funeral yeah that's weird she also said that when theresa realized that no one wanted to speak with her at the memorial service she became irate and started quote running her mouth talking shit to people at the funeral she said her daughter christy told her be quiet mama shut up like you're embarrassing us this is getting loud yeah that's i know better and she said christy told her mother during the service that she waited too long to phone authorities to report the shootings that's why people are mad at hers because she waited too long and she said well i was in the bathroom scared what do you want i'm come out and get shot they told me to wait in there and she said well i was in the bathroom scared what do you want so i waited well ever everybody here's talking about it mama yep now the police interviewed theresa several times here twice basically once right away the day of where they were all in her face yeah and then kind of around this part here um the uh isom and barrett do this in the early conversation she said intruder came in you know made me go in the bathroom husband told me to go in there whatever um then out of nowhere a couple days later she adds a new wrinkle to it out of nowhere she says yeah that's what happened that night and a couple days before he died julian beat me up he physically assaulted me which why say that i don't know she's never said that before never said it to anybody never had a bruise a mark no one's ever seen that heard of that she's never told anybody that the smirching a dead man for no reason yeah she said i didn't kill him though and they said well we don't think maybe you had him killed and she said i didn't have him killed that's great i don't know who killed him someone broke him up and killed him and she said well we don't think he maybe you had him killed my house made me go in the bathroom what do you want from me so they said okay let's calm let's just go step reset reset what did you and your husband do before bed that night yeah simple okay uh she told him that well we talked and then we prayed together and then she told him that she said she was going to go pack his lunch and uh she told him she prepared a lunch and put it in the fridge for him and uh the lunch bag was in there the one with the note i love you hope you have a good day i miss you when you're gone okay that's what she tells them uh the investigators learned also that teresa and a friend had visited an attorney shortly after the murders to make sure that kathy would not be inheriting cj's money or or julian's money to make sure there was no fancy work with wills or anything like that yeah i get all the looks but there will be no money there will be no money so the police had a couple problems with teresa's story um number one the fact that why would cj unlock the back door that doesn't make a lot of sense uh the second was cj was lying dead in the next room so how the fuck did she know on the phone with 9-1-1 that he was dead because according to her she came out of the room went into the bedroom called the police came out of the bathroom yeah nothing to do with cj but yet she knew he was dead in the other room maybe she heard the the yeah shotgun shells from way over there and just assume that's that's that's what she's but she did say he was a hundred percent dead she said they're both dead yeah which she knew he was dead somehow even though she shouldn't have and then her husband was actually still alive he's he's alive so that's the other thing she didn't say bring the ambulance she said they're both dead if she said hey my husband's barely hanging on to life i assume the ambulance would have came sooner and that would have been a probably yeah not not a detective you know that's a different thing and the da yeah so that's that's very interesting and the third thing here is that she she reported an armed intruder and not an unlocked door to 9-1-1 so they said how basically she was already saying how the person got in before anybody even asked how they got in right she said must have come in through the unlocked door how do you know the door is unlocked how do you know that's what happened how do you know any of that so they're like well that's she could be just trying to figure it out people like to put puzzles together speculation sure yeah um and also they said that when they informed her that both her husband and her stepson were dead she did not appear that upset to the officers more annoyed by the whole procedure so julian's boss is the guy that's going to blow this whole thing up why really yes weirdly oddly enough yeah the supervisor down there at the dan river mill they went and talked to to him and somehow it came up about the lunch that he had a lunch in the fridge and blah blah blah and he said paper bag he said i've worked with julian for years he does not ever bring his lunch to work in a paper bag matter of fact every single day he brings it in the exact same blue and white cooler he's got a lunch pail he's got a lunch cooler he never brings a paper bag so why the years and the whole time theresa's been with them there never brought a paper bag in before why would he bring a paper bag in when he's got a cooler that keeps his shit right so that's when they were like huh that's odd yeah nice things written on it and all that never did that before interesting uh then a guy named bobby demont who had known julian and theresa for a long time known julian longer but also knows theresa heard theresa say a couple months before the killings that jul if julian died she would get the money and if cj was killed and julian was dead she would get that money too why she was talking like that don't know she was telling everybody the how the insurance breaks down and how what she gets so november 7th 2002 detectives talked to theresa again let's have another chat why don't we here now they confront her with all of this they're like listen a b c d what the none of this adds up theresa if igloo made a dry erase we wouldn't have got to the bottom of this not at all and so they confront her with all that she's staring at him and she says okay i hired people to kill him oh they're like no really that worked we didn't expect that to work it worked and she's admitted to it yeah we were prepared to be frustrated we were going to be very frustrated and we got arrested anyway on the mounting evidence but you just made this way easier cool what happened she starts to confess yeah they they said listen we don't believe you here's all the evidence against you and she was like well i don't know and if and i'm going to say 72 iq that's like confronting a you know a 10 year old with all sorts of facts and they'll go oh shit i'm going to admit to it yeah when you get when you have a bunch of evidence about what you're doing and you know what you're doing and they're real close to being right yeah that feeling in your stomach sucks it does yeah your head gets real hot when you're 10 and there's a broken window and someone in a baseball sitting in the living room with glass all around it and someone looks out the window and you're standing there with a baseball glove on yeah you kind of got to admit it at that point you're kind of fucked you kind of go oh yeah fuck yeah all right i did it yeah shit shit some kid just ran up and threw a baseball through the window i tried to catch it with my glove but i couldn't do it he was he said let's play and then he threw it at the house it was crazy man he was nuts that's basically her story yeah there's someone some kid ran by and broke the window and i'm standing there with a glove and that's it so with a dry dry throat yeah so then she tells him a story that's kind of true she'll refine it later okay she said i hired a guy named matthew hamburger to kill julian oh she said they go how do you know him she said met him at the walmart really yep met him at the walmart on the checkout line that's how they met does he work there no oh my god the guy bought she put the divider up and goes he said kill people baby i don't mind if our products touch and she was smitten what and gushing ensued i don't mind if our best foods best value whatever the fuck it is great value shit touches your mustard my mayo yeah oh let's get after it your peanut butter please touch my jelly i want your skippy on my smuckers right now baby come on now my god go ahead and put your skippy on my smuckers would you so it didn't go it didn't go to do you kill people by chance it was oh no we should fuck that's how it started okay wow she said now that we know that's true she said matthew's from new york originally we know that's true yeah she said i let him into the home on the night of the murders i unlocked the door for him so they could get in that's why there's no forced entry she said that matthew shot julian and cj and took julian's money from his wallet which she didn't report before the money was missing and then he left okay so they're like well how the fuck did he shoot both people without the other person they shoot one run over shoot the other and then do shot by shot or how would you shoot a guy five times without somebody else being aware of this here right and she said well i don't know um yeah she said she said that you know that's what happened she said she had uh yeah watched this stuff go on and everything like that um yeah and then she told them that matthew had expected to half the insurance proceeds but that she had changed her mind and decided to keep all the money i'm not giving him shit why should i give him anything um also we find out this is not true because um there's another guy involved in this and apparently the other guy we'll find out later the other guy shot cj three times then twice more um so she said that cj or this guy had cj wouldn't die okay now she was not asked about the division of the money but she volunteered that she had decided to cut this guy out of the payment and not pay him even though she had promised to here so then they said well if this is true do you know where this guy lives this schallenberger fella and she says i do and they said well hop on in the car and take me on out there so on out to the residence she drives him out to the up to out to his trailer and uh points it out that's right that's him that's a shitbox and here we are so then november 8 2002 she has some more to say she is at the danville city jail and she asked to speak to investigator isom again i don't know if she's bored in there or what but she then says hey all the stuff i told you yesterday i wasn't being completely truthful about that not true no there's a lot of stuff i told you yesterday there's another guy involved like we know that which guy was he we were on his tail she said a guy named rodney fuller he's also involved in this this um she also told the cop that um my daughter christy also helped plan it christy was involved too christy was involved why are you telling the cops on your 16 year old daughter wouldn't you keep that one and i won't i'll i'll cut her out of this fucking thing and not get my 16 year old involved considering it's probably me that dragged her into it if i snitched on schallenberger and the other and rodney uh one of them's gonna tell on me so i may as well just throw the daughter in too that's wild to just throw your 16 year old you'd think you would protect your 16 year old at all costs you know i don't know she's dangerous she well you have a 16 year old daughter would you tell the cops on her if you did something together and they had you busted but didn't know about her no no i'm afraid of her i'm afraid she would break out of her prison break into my prison and kill me oh no she wouldn't she's a nice kid you she's pretty badass i'm scared of her she's a nice kid though she's getting uh not so nice anymore she's just a 16 year old you know what i mean that's just a 16 year old they're all like that horrible horrible people we were all we were all terrible people when we were 16 holy grumpy angry i don't know what the hell's going on confused that gave a shit that wanted to hang out with me i don't think i'd be mean to them i don't know maybe not i'm not sure if you want if you don't want to hang out with them then they want to hang out with you if you don't want to hang out with them then they want to hang out with you if you don't want to hang out with them they don't want to hang out with you sometimes i don't know if it's just 16 year old contrary if yours dad gave you a koozie and was like that's yours come hang with me by 16 i didn't i would have been like uh is there weed in that koozie peace i'm going down here and i'm gonna do i had a lot of shit going on i told you to smoke weed no i had a bunch of when we when we get where we're going there's a miller light involved i don't hang out with them i had like drugs to sell and stuff by 16 i was far gone in terms of you couldn't reach me by then i was done at 10 you could have started with that 16 i was already i was like the kids in the wire where it's like well they're too far to have gone to reach let's go down lower to the to the 12 year olds duke he's on a shopping cart with a crackhead it's over yeah it's all once he's on the shopping cart with the crackhead it's all over with yeah so she then said after the shooting the two men left the house and then she waited approximately 30 to 40 minutes before calling 911 yeah she said that um she told uh kathy clifton it was 45 and she told the cops it was 30 so the we don't know exactly where it was but the medical evidence supports the longer one yeah so this is how this all went down they said how do you know these you met a guy how do you go from being online at walmart with a guy to him murdering your husband how does that happen please walk us through this so here's your 16 year old hiring them for you well she was just sort of wait till you hear the this is horrible dude this is this theresa oh my god early october 2002 this is you know the month of the murders but like the first week of the month at the walmart they met okay on the checkout line she meets both shallenberger and rodney fuller at the walmart in early october now matthew shallenberger's 21 years old matthew jesse shallenberger mj he's 21 he's from new york and he's living in a trailer with rodney fuller his roommate from the city or from not sure you know yeah we don't know um all right he wants to be a hit man okay which he's not from the city the funny part of maybe he is the funny part is is he's in new york and he goes i want to be a hit man i'll move to rural virginia that's where all the work is and hits that's where everyone's killing paying the murders go on it's a real tough market in the city it's hard it's a lot of competition yeah billboards for everybody else it's difficult so he wanted to build a resume this was his goal here this is wild this is like a comic who lives in new york and they're like i don't know how i'm gonna crack this scene i'll go to a smaller market first get myself go and make a name for myself then crack into new york or la that's basically passed at the stand i can get past at the loony bin that's the problem yeah fuck i don't okay there's nothing i can't even get an open mic in this city at first you know you got to go go to south jersey and fucking do some stuff first so that was his plan is he came here like a minor leagues he said he wanted to build a resume of contract killings because you keep a track of everything oh i killed this guy i killed him he was excellent you have pictures that you give people and he wanted to see my linkedin you should see it's amazing he should he has like a like a plastic surgeon like a book here's before he looks pretty happy with his family here's after with two bullets in his forehead didn't i do a good job so he said that he wanted to build up this reputation that would then travel north and the people in new york would hear about his incredible murder techniques and then recruit him into organized crime in new york he does not know how any of this works i don't think none of who has the 70 iq that's what i mean that no that's real this guy 115 iq by the way 113 sorry that guy's smarter than me that guy's a lot smarter than you yes well technically not smart i would if if you're saying you're going in on something would you rather go in on it with this guy or jimmy i'm taking you a thousand out of a thousand you're smarter than this guy does he not know that the point of murder is to not get credited with it try to be as anonymous as possible he wants word to and where's word gonna spread who's teresa gonna then gonna then tell the head of the lucchese crime family who's gonna go hey there's a guy down in uh this shallenberger guy down in virginia he sounds good we don't have anybody that can murder but he can do it um so yes now he also wanted some seed money to start a drug distribution operation he doesn't start out slow like he's gonna get you know sell an eight ball and break it down into fucking quarter grams or he wants to get a whole big drug distribution started by like kilos at the same time he doesn't know that the people that hire hitmen don't want that guy they don't want that guy no no that guy brings too much heat in the first place you're gonna do that and murder yeah he's gonna get caught for drugs be facing a hundred years and telling everybody what are you doing so um and he had a brother who'd offered to to supply him with cheap product cheap meth to get started so as long as you can get some some cash here um that's wild so he's the part one of the operation by the way his roommate rodney fuller who's 19 years old is even dumber than theresa according to the courts here right um he would later be described as having an iq quote much lower than theresa's much much lower i don't know how much lower you can go and still be able to tie your fucking shoes though that's the thing yeah have it be fun to stand online at walmart yeah to have you understand that that's where the line you hand them money and they get and you're next yeah it's like a 40 that's yeah because like explaining next to a to a 60 iq yeah well i mean a smart dog is 50 in that region so i mean yeah you're starting to get into a dog territory at some point in terms of cognitive ability and processing abilities here um so not that there are dogs because they're stupid that wasn't what i was trying to say so um someone will take it wrong and be like you said stupid people are dogs no that's not what i said but they'll say it and then a bunch of people be like james said stupid what an asshole like they don't know it's a shit they're gonna listen to the three hours to hear if they're wrong or not no that's what i mean they just assume it's true and then i'm an asshole such a dick dude i'm picking on the low cognitive uh you know processing people and calling them fucking uh dogs that's functional morons they're german shepherds that's it that's it man so theresa gets close to the pair essentially um so basically she's got the schallenberger guy and the other guy with the iq of a floor lamp and here we are uh so theresa gets closer to them they talk and theresa and matthew schallenberger exchange phone numbers oh boy and they begin to communicate quite frequently very frequently as a matter of fact here by the way she's 33 he's 21 that's fine um fuller uh said that theresa when he was with schallenberger at walmart and later met her at a kmart just walmart's and kmarts all the marts all the fine fine establishments for shopping of mart yeah we're going to smart and final later it's got the word mart in it so we're going it's in there yeah it's in there uh where they then drove around to the back of the store of the back of the kmart where they talked and then had sex that's where i take all my ladies though is the back of the kmart it shows if they're gamers or not you know what are they doing back there james fucking no talking and fucking yes oh boy they're fucking and this is that she's already fucked schallenberger by the way because they were originally this is where she's fucking rodney this is rodney behind the kmart oh my god the dude the young guy who she met in the walmart line whose trailer she goes to to she's already fucked schallenberger behind the kmart at the same time she's dim and he's dimmer and imagine accidentally producing something dimmer. Oh, no. That's going to be ugly, man. Oh, no. That's going to be bad stuff. On at least one, at least one occasion, more than one occasion. Yeah. Oh, my God. She invited both the men over to her home. Yeah. You know, because no one's there now. Oh, boy. And performed what she and them called a, quote, lingerie show for both the men. Okay, a striptease. Where she would do all of this. Yeah, and then she would have sex with both of them. At the same time, probably. Yeah, they'd Eiffel Tower her. Yeah, that's what's going on here. Yikes. That's not the creepiest sex story in the story, though. It gets creepier. Okay, everybody. Hope you haven't eaten recently, because this is going to make you. Okay. Teresa takes Christy. She's 16 years old to meet Schallenberger and Fuller in a parking lot in Danville. Christy had never met Rodney Fuller before. Never once. Okay. Her mother introduced them. Then Christy said, hey, I'm going to fuck Matthew in this car. You fuck Rodney in the car next to us. And that's what happened. Boy. And that's what they did. Mom fucked a man and looked out the passenger. Yeah, it was like. And his daughter fucking another. Another man. Look at you. Never been prouder in my life. This poor Christy, man. That's not good. She's 16 years old. I mean, he's only 19. So, I mean, technically, most states, it's within three years, even if you're under 18. So, technically. I think it's two. Like, I know California's three. I know most states. Is it? A lot of states are three. I don't know if they've changed it, but that was always the thing that they used to say back in the day. I don't know. So, that's at least in the ballpark of normal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If your daughter's a junior in high school and she's going out with a guy who graduated last year, you don't love it, but it's not. That's early junior year. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not great, but it's also at least not like, at least he's not 35 or something, but you don't say, go fuck this guy. You don't arrange sex dates for your 16-year-old. That's disgusting. I'm saying if she found him on her own, whatever, but this is totally different here. Upon first meeting. Upon first. This is Rodney. Go fuck him in this car while I bang somebody up. Yeah. When you're 16. The last thing you should want to see or know about is your motherfucking, number one. You don't want to know about that. Right. And then you're going to do it next to her in a car, this poor girl. And then. Go catch cock in the Celica. When it was all over, they all went and got drinks. What kind of drinks? Booze, yeah. Booze. You know, because they're best friends. I mean, she's adult enough to fuck. Why not drink? In a parking lot. Yeah. They're best friends. Teresa also was involved with another man from her church who she was banging during this period as well. Okay. She would claim she was at church and that, by the way, that's, Julian started suspecting her of cheating. This was going on before Julian died. Yeah. Along with the other two. This was, all that shit was going on before Julian was even dead. The lingerie shows and all that kind of shit. That was while Julian was at work. Like. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's, that's how you seduce somebody to do things for you. Yeah. He's not dead yet. That's fucked up. That's crazy. That's crazy. And, um, but she would say she was at. Church at odd hours all the time. And Julian started suspecting her of cheating because she was, she was also cheating with somebody from church. Um, then the phone logs at the police fine between Teresa and Matthew during the, since they met the planning period is what they call it about a week after they met to the time of the murder. There was 170 phone calls between them. Goddamn. Teresa initiated 160 of them. That's a lot of phone calls, man. My, he is not calling her very often. She is courting as fuck. Yup. October 23rd, 2002 here. This is when it all kind of starts happening. Teresa withdraws $1,200 in cash and hands it to Matthew and Rodney to get guns with this is gun money, a piece, 600 a piece. Uh, but they, they are thinking they're smart. They're like, ah, what we'll do is we'll separate ourselves from the purchase of the gun. So it's not going to be a good idea. It's not connected. You know, we're real smart guys here. So they give the money to Antoine Bennett. He makes the purchase for them, uh, ammunition too, and all that, but they didn't know. He didn't know what he was even, he didn't know about a murder plot or, and he wasn't involved in any of that. They just said, we just get guns for us. Bought some fellas, some pistols. That's it. Um, some 12 gauge Mossberg shotguns as a matter of fact, is what they got here. They went into the store, purchased a nine millimeter rifle and two 12 gauge Mossberg shotguns. Okay. That's what they said. Um, so that same day, Teresa tells Matt and Rodney the route that Julian drives home from work because this is the original plan is not to kill everybody in the house. It's because CJ was not around at this point. Yeah. So they were thinking, okay, in order to get this money, CJ and Julian have to die. Right. So the plan was kill Julian, have him be dead. Then when, when CJ comes home for the funeral, we kill CJ too. Okay. Okay. That's a bad plan too. Which is like a, a plan, like a, like organized crime figures would have in a movie. And then when the funeral comes, it's like the last action hero. Remember it was like a, it was a cheesy, an intentionally cheesy plot of a cheesy movie. That's what it's supposed to be. Kidnap the son to bait him to come to the top of the roof. Exactly. Same shit. So the plan was to, um, for the men to quote, follow and stop Julian on the highway and kill him and to make the murder look like a robbery. This is all while Teresa is waiting home, you know, like the good wife waiting for her husband to come home from work. And she's so shocked when she hears about it. So that evening is the first attempt at this. Another vehicle though, stayed too close to Julian's truck for the entire length of the drive and they never got the opportunity. Foiled by traffic. And that's the funny thing. They literally said traffic was our problem there. They said traffic was moving too slowly for the group to reach them. There is a third man involved in this. Apparently that I was reading about. They only mentioned briefly in a newspaper article about him getting sentenced later. That's a guy named, uh, a min a M I N Goggins like Walton, uh, who was 29 years old, apparently. Um, but yeah, the point is CJ, he'll get leave from the national guard to come home for the funeral and boom, we'll kill him there. Okay. So, um, apparently during an attempt to kill during this attempt, Teresa was on the phone with her daughter so that the, she, they both have an alibi. They're on the phone with each other at home. So neither of them are out on the road doing anything. So that's literally what they did. Um, but that didn't work out as we, as we heard here. Now, Julian ended up driving home, unaware that he was somehow miraculously being hunted, came out with his life. And, uh, his wife was very surprised when he walked in the door. Yeah. Oh, what's for dinner. I hadn't been making anything. I didn't expect a shit. So that's probably the first day that she had like a celebration when he came home. Like, uh, like he felt loved, you know what I mean? Yeah. Cause she, he comes in the door and she's like, wow. Wow. Well, she's probably like, fuck, what the fuck are you doing here? But he probably didn't say it like that. No, yay. I'm so happy you're here. So they regroup new plan. Okay. New plan. Kill, kill Julian. CJ will still come home for the funeral, but we'll kill Julian at the house. Cause we can control the environment in the house. We don't know what's going on out, out in the outside world. That was crazy. Um, so then he. He comes home. We kill CJ second policy pays out. Everybody's happy. Okay. Um, so, uh, an investigator said that Teresa said at one point she started to, she started to wonder if it was all worth it and started to falter in her effort. And she just said, ah, maybe we should just forget this whole thing. And just getting smarter, just ride it out. And I think she's lazy at this point. And she told the police that it was her daughter, Christie, who urged. Her on and told her to go ahead and do it. Come on, mom. You can do it. Oh my God. She told the cops that why would you tell the car? She's trying to get blame off of herself onto a kid, which is fucked up. I wanted to stop, but my child really, she's bloodthirsty. Yeah. So they're going to do it like that night, but then Teresa learns, holy shit, CJ is going to be home for a night. Oh. So we might not have to wait for him. We might be able to do this all at once. He's coming home the night of October 29th, 30th and stay in there. So they were like. Two birds in the bush or something like that. Well, there's one in the hand and one in the bush, whatever the fuck. So he said that they were like, this is the night, October 29th into the 30th. So that night, the night of the 29th, they do some preparation here. She said she talked with her husband, prayed with him, arranged for her daughter to speak with him so that she wouldn't. He wouldn't think anything was wrong. Everybody's being all nice in the house. Even her daughter's being nice to him. She told him she was going to go to the kitchen. lunch. She packed the lunch, put it in the refrigerator, wrote the shit on the bag. Then around 3 a.m., Schallenberger and Fuller drive past the home about three times without stopping because lights are on inside. So they keep circling. I'm sorry, that was a little bit earlier. Then at 3.15 a.m., they see the lights are off. So they enter through the rear door that Teresa left unlocked. Each carries a shotgun. They go to the master bedroom where Teresa's asleep beside her husband. This fucking idiot fell asleep. Okay. Is it idiot or was that part of the plan? That she's just like. I would be awake for this. Maybe I'll wake up when. They'll surprise me. There's an alarm clock coming. Yeah. Remember Widow's Bay when. Yeah. What's her name? Gilpin there was getting the people. to come kill Richard Warren because she was fucking awake. Yeah. And she's lucky she was awake because they were about to kill her. And she was like, hey, wrong person over there. They were like, oh shit, my bad. And they went over there. So apparently Matthew said, hey, Teresa, get up. Woke her up. She got out of the bed and walked to the kitchen. At that point, 3.15 to 3.20, Matthew shoots Julian several times while he's in bed. Teresa's in the kitchen. Here's the shots. This is at the same time Fuller goes into the other bedroom and shoots CJ three times. Yeah. Teresa walks back to the master bedroom and sees Julian on the floor bleeding alive and conscious enough to speak. She doesn't speak to him though. This is why he says my wife knows who did this because she came in and saw him and they were all in the room. This bitch wasn't in the bathroom at all. She gets his pants and takes his wallet. Out and goes to the kitchen. That's what she does. Wow. Okay. Then Rodney Fuller comes into the kitchen and sees Teresa and Matthew pulling money out of a wallet. So they were dividing the money that Julian had in his wallet. And Rodney said, man, he wouldn't die. So Rodney takes Matt's shotgun because I guess his was empty and he goes down the hall and shoots CJ twice more and make sure he's dead. And picks up those shells too. He, Rodney, the one with the fucking end table IQ is the one who thought to pick the fucking shells up. The wet wipe. Wow. He decided maybe I should pick these up or as Schallenberger thought, maybe he thought, cause he's banging Teresa. Maybe he thought like, she'll pick it up for me. She'll grab those. I don't know what it is, but it's wild. So they were, they, they miss fucking all the ones. One's in the other room. Um, they divide $300 in cash from Julian's wallet while he's still alive. I needed all three of them to do the math. Yeah. They had to put their heads together here to divide that up. $300 among three people. Hold on a minute. Shit. That's going to be, that's going to bother me all night. So afterwards Schallenberger, Matthew tells Teresa that he's sorry that she had to go through something like this and then hugged her and kissed her. And then the men left. Wow. So she remains in the mobile home until three 55 before she finally makes the calls, the call to nine one one. While in the meantime, she made at least two other phone calls. What? Before she called. Well, she called the first is to her former mother-in-law. Don't know why she'd call her four o'clock in the morning. Marie beans. Not right. That one who said not right. Uh, the second is Debbie Yates, who is described as her best friend. So she called her ex mother-in-law and her best friend in the middle of the night. Did she think that they wouldn't know she did? Did she didn't know that they would be looking, huh? I don't know, man. I honestly don't know what she knows about forensics. When things happen today and like, there's like three phone calls before the police, how do they not know they're going to look at that? That's I don't get it. All I can say is that she's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person. In 2002, if you haven't really been watching much TV for the last 10 years, you might not know what the cops are doing and what they're capable of pretty new at that point. It doesn't have a huge audience yet. Even law and order. If you haven't seen a lot of law and orders or something, you don't know, like they check phone records, they do that kind of shit. So I can see told us this shit in 96, babe. Yeah. So back to November 7th, 2002, that's when Teresa just pointed out Matthew to the cops. And that's where we were. And then we just described Matthew. Rodney. So the police go in and search Rodney and Matthew's trailer. You would think they'd at least be smart enough to get rid of evidence, right? Yeah. Okay. We would hope so here. Well, apparently they recovered two shotguns. Yep. They got the guns, the actual shotguns, two pairs of rubber household gloves from a closet in Matthew's bedroom, the dish gloves, primer residue from the discharge of a firearm present on the gloves. They wore fucking yellow dishwashing gloves to do this. This those are called disposable. And then they did not dispose of them. They kept it. Well, I might have to watch some dishes soon. I'll wear them when I wash my car all on my truck. That's what I mean. Then the coup de gras here, they found the shells recovered from the fucking bedroom. They saved them. How do you keep the gloves and the shell? And then they matched those shells up. They're the same shells that are in the rest of the house because they're the same shotguns and the same ammo. And they go, Hey, look at this. We got matches all over the place here. Wow. Now they think that Teresa had to have been the center of this. They're like, there's no way it was any other way because number one, Matthew and Rodney never met Julian or CJ. So they didn't know them. Um, they didn't know where they lived, what they drove, where they worked, or even that they were human beings on this planet ever. So Teresa could schedule the employer, the route home from work, everything, second life insurance. It's all her. She's the only one. She's the straw that stirs the drink here. Um, she told them where each man would be sleeping. She's unlocked the door. She put the pit bull in the middle bedroom. She did it. Well, yeah, they didn't do it. They would have bit him. So that's how it works. Um, so obviously Teresa is charged with this clearly. Um, she is charged with the capital murder for hire of Charles capital murder of higher for hire of Julian conspiracy to commit capital murder, robbery of Julian took the wallet out, took his money. Um, use it was her daughter, not home at the time, not in the house. Um, use of a firearm in the murder of Julian Clifton, use of a firearm in the murder of Charles and use of a firearm in the robbery of Julian. So the robbery charge is there for a reason. That's an aggravator. That's robbery. That's robbery. Robbery in the commission of a, of a murder, which is not great. Um, no, put that together with murder for hire as well. You got some ugly aggravators in a burlap sack and throw you off a bridge. I believe that's what they do. They, well, they just, they first, they like beat you with big sticks. Then they throw you off a bridge. Um, her daughter's arrested too. They go ahead and arrest Christie. She knew about the plot and she didn't report it. So they, she's a conspiracy to commit murder as her charges. She's got more later too. Now Rodney and the first guy there, um, I'm in Amman guy. Yeah. They are going to plead. Okay. They are going to plead, uh, here. They know they're shocked. Rodney had the fucking balls. I think a lawyer, he sat down with a public defender and they said, they have every bit of evidence against you. If you don't want to go to the death penalty, if you don't want to go get a lethal injection, you plead guilty because otherwise, they're going to kill your ass. You know that, right? They have, they have you dead to rights on murder for hire, dude. You're fucked. And he was like, okay, you're going to eat like shit. And then one day you'll have a nice meal and that's it. That's going to be the last one. So Rodney is going to plead guilty under a cooperation agreement to testify against everybody else. Okay. So, um, Rodney said that Matthew told him that Teresa wanted Matthew to do something about her husband. So now we get corroboration. Of what she said and what Matthew said, he said that Lewis had gotten $1,200 just like she said. Um, she had instructed them to come to her trailer late in the day to pick up the money to purchase the guns. They did. They got the Mossberg shotguns. He said, Matthew told me how to hold the guns. They test fired them the day of the 23rd. He didn't know how to shoot a shotgun, Rodney. So he said, they went to a field in Ringgold, which is nearby and shot off the shotguns. And he said, Rodney or Matthew told me how to hold the guns. I shot all of them. Yeah. So the rifle and the shotgun, my shoulder, an alley house. I was sore. No, he's 19. So he's feeling great no matter what. Yeah. Fuller then Rodney testified later that Matthew told him they were to attempt to ambush him on Mal Mason, Mal Mason road that night. He said he needed to do it that night or Teresa would be angry if they didn't get it done on the 23rd, but the plan didn't work. He said they were to attempt to ambush him on Mal Mason, Mal Mason road that night. He said they with him it was a mess um six days later matthew picked rodney up from work and they proceeded to the home around 11 p.m yeah he said that matthew told him to wear dark clothing and use something to cover his head since quote forensics were forensics was high tech now they can pick up your hair so matthew's at least been watching tv that's the the extra 50 iq points come in handy for that at least in this particular up your hair they pick up your hair more than that so he said he's rodney admits firing the shotgun at cj three times going to the the kitchen to complain he wouldn't die then going back with matthew's gun and shooting him twice more yeah rodney said that he uh matthew and theresa were planning to leave town after the murders that was the plan he said he and matthew were hoping to move to new york city where they would make a living by selling drugs because there's nobody else selling drugs in new york city you can walk right in and pick up a big part of the market share don't worry about it easy pickings that market oh yeah no one and then no one will be mad at you either it's you'll you can waltz right in there no one will care they all welcome it yeah so fuller receives from this you sir may fuck off life sentences time seven seven life sentences seven life sentences because he got all those charges theresa got pled guilty to all of them all of them life without parole okay and 53 years for two counts of conspiracy to commit capital murder and 13 years for three counts of use of a firearm in the commission of a murder so seven life with outs 53 and 13 add another 66 to seven life with outs i get that i understand why but yeah two dead people created all of that there are so many there's one dead person and people get like eight years and it's like incredibly fucked up yeah this is like i mean this is obviously because the aggravators and everything oh god yeah there's a ton of it we've seen way dirtier crimes get 30 years and they're out 15 sometimes yeah so amin uh amin goggins by the way he is also going to plead guilty and will serve 17 years of a 28-year sentence with the rest suspended he pleads guilty as well he was just in the car on the 23rd during we're looking for him when they were during the attempted thing so he's in there for attempted you know conspiracy to commit attempted murder or whatever the fuck so he said i want everyone to know that i did not shoot anyone but my actions contributed to the crime that's what he wrote to the judge and he said i'm uh he wrote to uh julian's daughter so he to kathy he wrote i'm truly sorry for my actions and my role in the crime i'm just truly sorry so he's a young man yeah uh 29 he has goggins actually oh he's way too old to be talking like that yeah absolutely no he's 29 i'm just he should be begging for something mercy because that's a crazy thing just i didn't shoot anybody but broski yeah well i mean you couldn't stop this but actions contributed to the crime honestly whether he was in the car or not they would have went looking for him and then they would have shot him later which he wasn't involved in so really he was stopped this he couldn't stop it they would have just dropped him off hey guys don't do this my point is my point is they he went shopping with him and no no this is not the guy who went shopping this is the guy who's in the car i mean he went shopping he was in the car shopping for a murder victim perfect yeah yeah totally they didn't find they went they didn't find anything so he just went home he could yeah something's fucked up just happened today true true at the same time he went for a ride i mean yeah you know that's one of those things but i think that's fine he got 10 years with some kids i shouldn't have been around anyway because plenty of times plenty of times yeah i could think of a couple things i don't know if the statute of limitations are over yet that i'm gonna talk about like that are i could have went to prison for a long time for you know what i mean i'm just saying he went on a ride with boys that he shouldn't have based on the age difference that's the that's the other problem yeah he shouldn't be hanging out with a 19 year old and a 21 year old you're probably not probably not um she shouldn't be fucking them either no so he's sentenced to 10 years for attempted murder three years for use of a firearm in an attempted murder five years with three suspended for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon oh fuck him 10 years with eight suspended for conspiracy to commit murder he was oh he's a piece of shit yeah he's done other bad this is he had a record and everything yeah he's hanging out with these dipshits obviously he's a scumbag um so he was set to go on trial and pled to avoid it and to avoid serving the other 11 years of his sentence he was ordered to be on good behavior for 10 years following his release and write an apology for the crimes which was filed and we told you about i'm sorry for what i did there so the is there going to be a plea for theresa here um yeah the trial judge appointed two experienced defendants for her um david furrow who's been going on for 26 years and another guy with 23 years experience in a ton of capital cases so try to get her good lawyers here because this is a capital case and their death penalty on the table here for anyone who doesn't plea um so they've worked together these two lawyers on a bunch of these cases as well they also consulted a national death penalty expert um canvas local defense attorneys who regularly practiced in front of the assigned judge to see what this judge is all about um first they tried this a plea how about a plea in exchange for the commonwealth taking the death penalty off the table we'll play because that's what they did for rodney and for this one the prosecutor said not happening we're not taking it not taking it off you want to plead guilty go ahead but we're not taking the death penalty off the table um so they went shit they said she's the worst part of this whole thing she's the planner she got the money yeah she's the one who none of this would happen without her so they said we're adamant about seeking the death penalty against her um so basically uh the the defense attorneys talked to her and said look in virginia if a defendant pleads guilty in a felony case uh the court hears it and the case is determined without a jury so therefore the judge will sentence you not a jury so if you plead guilty you let a judge sentence you not the jury plead not guilty and you get 12 rural pissed off people who've seen crime scene photographs of people blown to fucking pieces and they're gonna hear about how you had your 16 year old fuck a man in a celica and did lingerie shows and got eiffel towered by two morons you met at walmart you got spit roasted by a dimwit do you want these 12 rural folks to fucking judge you for all this shit basically you don't want to smoke nope they wrote a 10 page letter to the court and they're going to hear about it and they're going to hear about it and they're going to hear about it and they're going to hear about it and laying out exactly what they were facing took her a month and a half to read it probably she's still reading she's still like wait a second he told her the photographs of julian and cj were among the worst he's ever seen in all of his time he said this is not good the ammunition they used is vicious shit and it tore them apart he told her that he fully expects this is what's going to happen if we go to court the prosecutor's gonna get one of those mossbergs and he's gonna pump that shotgun in front of the judge and he's gonna get one of those mossbergs and he's gonna pump that so they can hear that clack while displaying the photographs on giant fucking poster boards that's what they're gonna because i would yeah who wouldn't that's that's what prosecutors do um he said i have watched this guy do this in other cases and it works it makes the people horrified he then said your 16 year old daughter's then going to take the stand and describe having sex with an adult man in a car beside you after you just introduced them and told her to do that he said think about and he said this county think about these people these are not sexually liberated this is a baptist these are some baptists they're gonna be more pissed off at that than the murder yeah honestly i get fire and brimstone but sex is a whole different thing now um so that's not great um also he said the the case it's it's it's on strong case they got everything against you they got everything against you they got everything against you they said the other thing you have in your favor for pleading guilty is this judge charles j strauss has never imposed a death sentence on a capital defendant in his entire career ever this is the worst i've ever seen but the judge has never done it he's never done it so he's like you got a good chance here and they said especially because the judge already sentenced rodney fuller who's an actual trigger man who butchered one of these people to life so he's not gonna give the guy life who did the shooting and then give you the death penalty who sat in the other room that would not make sense so they said in only two cases in the history of the commonwealth of virginia have produced a death sentence for the hirer of the murder for hire it's usually the killers themselves and also no woman has been sentenced to death in virginia um that they can remember and the last woman executed in virginia was in 1912 got a hundred years ago and the last woman executed in virginia was in 1912 got a hundred years ago and the last woman executed in virginia was in 1912 got a hundred years ago and the last woman executed in virginia As a single nonviolent conviction for prescription forgery a few years back. But that doesn't count toward a violent crime here. She also confessed and led the police to both shooters. Yeah, was that her? Yeah. It wouldn't have happened and the bust wouldn't have happened either. So they're like, you have done a lot to show that you don't deserve the death penalty. He said that her best chance of life without parole was to plead guilty, roll the fucking dice with the judge. Wow. So she signed the letter in her own hand stating she wished to plead guilty and get sentenced by the judge. Sounds like a good idea. I'll go with that option. Okay. Now, the other thing they have to figure out is, is she competent to do this? Is she bright enough and competent enough to do this? So a Dr. Barbara Haskins, who's a forensic psychiatrist, conducted an interview and arranged a cognitive testing thing by another doctor. They said, quote, cognitive testing showed a full scale. IQ of 72 verbal IQ was 70 and performance IQ was 79. This place is the defendant in the borderline range of mental retardation. Not good for to prosecute. I'm saying so. Now, they did find her competent, though. They said she understands she's aware of her charges and the possible penalties. She knows who her attorneys are, understands their roles, understands her role, feels comfortable working with them and is able to provide them with information. And ask questions, which is that's competent in this world. All we need. You have to be able to assist with your own defense. That's what the law says. Not that you're in great shape or whatever. So they said that before she could. They also said that she could recount her basic defense strategy and explain the reasoning behind it. Understanding the role of the jury, the judge and knew the advantages and disadvantages of each. So she understood all that, which means she gets to try. She gets things. They also she records. Now, this psychiatrist says that Lewis graduated from high school and completed one year of college. That's what's in the report, which is completely the opposite of what's in all the newspaper reports. And what Teresa said was she dropped out at 16 and had a baby. So then that's like a discrepancy that just kind of hangs in court. We never get it resolved. So either way, they said she obtained attended school for a substantial period, had been an average student. There's the graduated thing. There's nobody reconciles that that we don't know what's going on there here. So basically, there's two versions of her version. A is a functionally impaired pill addicted woman who's afraid of her boyfriend and has the reasoning capacity of an 11 year old. Essentially, version B is she's a high school graduate, went to college for a year, held down jobs, raised a kid, open bank accounts and organized a double homicide. Yeah. That's competent and got caught. Yeah. To me, she's talking about checks and this and that. She's doing more shit than I know how to do. I don't know. Maybe I'm in more on it. I wouldn't know how to. I wouldn't know who to call about life insurance. She makes it starts picking phones up. Then the defense position here. They have Duke psychologist, Dr. Philip Costanzo and an addiction psychiatrist, Dr. Eleanor McCants, McCants, cats. And they said. That she functions at a 12 to 13 year old level and, um, you know, she's not really responsible for much shit here. Okay. Um, but the Commonwealth again, argues that forensic pathologist that they have say she understands everything. So may 2003, they find her competent and they allow her to plead guilty to all seven counts. Okay. She pleaded guilty in addition to Myrtle murder, the firearms, the robbery, all that shit that we talked about here. So now the circuit court questioned her directly, determined the pleas were voluntary, intelligent, and knowing the judge confirmed she was waiving her right to a jury and that she would be sentenced to either life imprisonment without parole or death by him personally. Is that okay with you? She said, yes, please accept it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Sentencing comes up again. Death penalty fully on the table. Yeah. So the prosecution says, um, that the evidence that, um, basically the evidence that ends the whole intellectual disability feel bad for me argument is this, that Demont, her friend's testimony that establishes that she understood the beneficiary structure of the estate and the, and a separate insurance policy. Yeah. She knew if this happens, he gets the money, but if I get it, if they die first and all, she knew all that shit. Um, and understood the conditional sequencing. She knew everything required to collect on the second one, which was sort of, if you told that to an eight year old, it would take a few times before they'd get it. She explained the mechanism of the crime correctly to a family acquaintance before committing it. The funeral plan also here, they said they were waiting to murder a soldier at his own father's funeral. Do you understand how depraved that is and how awful of a person you have to be, especially in 2002, a soldier, you know? At that time, there were flags everywhere. Oh, Maran, Jesus Christ. Specifically because that was when he was reachable. It's just a plan gross act. It requires multi-step contingency in mind across an indefinite time horizon. They said, these are all things you need some reasoning ability for. Um, so they also said the bag lunch, the, the, the judges keeps returning to this because they said that that found depravity of mind. Yeah, it's fucked up. It's fucked up. It was created just to be found by police to show what a loving wife she was. That's the only reason it was there because she wasn't going to use it. Yeah. Um, so, but they, they found out that he carries his, his lunch in a cooler and it was all over one igloo. Fuck the whole thing. One dry erase. One that you could leave some messages on. That's it. So in arguing for the death penalty, the prosecution argued that she had no regard for the feelings of the victim's family. And friends and was concerned with only the insurance money she hoped to collect. They sought the death penalty on two statutory aggravators, vileness on the depravity of mind and aggravated battery to the victims and future dangerousness. Yeah, that's what they're going for. Um, the defense attorney argued that she should be sentenced to life. Obviously they said that she, that Rodney Fuller, the actual trigger man's he's getting life without parole. What the fuck? He said, Rodney Fuller is just as culpable as Teresa Lewis. And saying there's no qualitative qualitative difference between Lewis and Fuller and my art client, Teresa, her cooperation is the reason you even found Matthew and Fuller. It's the only reason you even know about this shit. Uh, you didn't know about him and also said the death penalty should be reserved for quote, the Timothy McVeigh's and the people who fly planes into the sides of buildings, killing thousands of people should be for terrorists. Invoke the United. We stand shit. He's literally saying that's who should. You should get the death penalty. These colors don't run. That's right. Giving Lewis the death penalty. Won't bring CJ back and it won't bring Julian back. Okay. The defense mitigation case was built on this. Basically the witness summaries from other people that said that she's got either was cooperative or has problems. Uh, Teresa Lewis is probation officer for the forged prescription thing said that she had complied with every term of her probation on. The prescription forgery conviction and had never demonstrated any type of violence. The pre-sentence report probation officer said that Lewis had seemed remorseful in his interview with her, um, a long time family friend and schoolmate of Lewis's engaged to be married to her sister testified that he had never observed her behaving in a violent manner. That's not the one she fucked different one, uh, an official at the Roanoke city jail provided a statement that there had been no incidents of violence. Involving Lewis or even minor infractions during her pretrial incarceration. So she's in there. She cooperates. Um, Melvin C. Wilson, her father, um, and her brother and sister were present in the, in the courtroom and the court word, uh, court was advised that all three would testify that they loved her and did not want her to receive the death penalty. All right. So she's got a family. She's got all the mitigating factors. Teresa in a statement before the court said that she was very. Very sorry for what happened and all the people that I hurt quote, if I could take things back, I would in a minute. And she said she wanted to spend her life in prison to try to forgive herself for what she did. All right. The judge rejects the future dangerous aggravator right away. Says there's never been any other. She's never been violent any other time in her life. So it's not, this isn't a pattern of behavior. Um, the absence of any criminal history or violent behavior. Or even non-criminal violent behavior that people have just anecdotally seen, I saw her, you know, beat up a girl in a bar one time or so there's none of that shit either. Um, now on the vileness, that's the other aggravating factor. Uh, they said the death penalty requires a finding of either future dangerousness or that the conduct was outrageously or wantonly vile, horrible, or inhumane that involved torture, depravity of mind, or an aggravated battery to the victim. That's quote unquote. The Virginia Supreme court has been pretty explicit here. Proof of any one of the three components torture. Torture, depravity of mind, or aggravated battery supports a finding of vileness. Depravity of mind is defined as a degree of moral turpitude and psychical debasement surpassing that inherent in ordinary legal malice and premeditation. So you're extra shitty. That's all. Put some extra stank on it is what that is. The judge found both the depravity of mind and aggravated battery. He also talked about what the other people do here, what the other two killers did. The Virginia judge also acknowledged openly that the case was made harder by the fact that Lewis had led police to these two who have pleaded, already pled guilty. So he said, and the fact that one of the trigger men already got a life sentence. So he said, that's making this whole thing hard. Then he said he found this was a cold-blooded, pitiless slaying. Of two men, horrible, inhumane, and committed for profit. He noted the cold lack of emotion she displayed. He found there was no motivation for the killings except greed and no thought on her part beyond the two murders and what she would receive once both men were dead. He found that she lured two men and her juvenile daughter into a web of deceit, sex, greed, and murder. This episode will absolutely be called deceit, sex, greed, and murder without a fucking question. A web of it. A web, sorry, a web of deceit, sex, greed, and murder. And then within an incredibly short period from meeting them, she had recruited them, planned and completed two murders, and staged one failed attempt on her husband's life within a week before the actual murders. Unbelievable. He noted that while her husband lay dying in the bedroom, she was in the kitchen apparently writing a love note to put in the refrigerator, splitting up the money from his wallet and waiting for him to die. He said, He stated he was convinced she waited until she thought Julian was dead before calling police and that she allowed him to suffer without any feelings at all with absolute coldness, called her, quote, the head of this serpent. Okay. And imposing the sentence, he said, you lured two other men and her juvenile daughter into this web. You, ma'am, may fuck off 20 years on the conspiracy count. Yeah. Life on the robbery count. Sure. 13 years on the firearms count. And for the murders, death penalty. Oh, fuck. They gave her the death penalty. Her lawyer's like- Bad gamble. I'm sorry. I really thought it was a good- You're the only one that's positive. The good news is you're the very first. There's a lot of whispering going on there. What do you mean? The last person we killed was a witch. That was like a fucking 110 years ago. She was the first woman sentenced to death in Virginia since 1912. Wow. 1912. It is 2004 at this point, or three. 98 years? Whatever. 80. Yeah, that's crazy. That's 90 years. That's a lot. So she is assigned to the Virginia Department of Corrections, inmate number 321-094, and enters the system. Now, because death row in Virginia only houses men, because there's no fucking women on death row. Teresa. Teresa was sent to the Fluvana, which sounds like a name of a stadium named after a drug that helps you with allergies. Fluvana Stadium. That has a commercial. Yeah. With a little song like Sky Rizzy. Nothing is ever- Yeah, one of those. It's definitely got a commercial. For sure. It's how you buy vaccines from a vending machine. Fluvana for neck swelling, or some weird thing that you didn't know was a medical condition. Fluvana for bulging eye veins. That's the one. I was just going to say that. That's the one I saw. I'm like, that's a disease. I didn't even know that. Yeah. That was a disease. Bulging eye disease. It's crazy, but- Okay. I guess you need that. There's so many things. I wouldn't want my eyes to bulge, I guess. Everybody's got an ailment, I guess. I suppose. So this is the Fluvana Correctional Facility for Women, sponsored by Fluvana Corp. In Troy, Virginia, and held in the segregation wing, which is usually used for disciplinary infractions, for seven years she's held there. Oh, my. Then where'd she go? That's death row, basically. They made up a death row. They made up a death row for her, because they didn't have one. It's a six by eight foot cell. It's the fucking, it's the hole. They just gave her the shoe. Yeah. She had a five inch black and white television. So one of those little handheld jobbers there. Yeah, that's- One of those. Five. Wow. A large print, new international version Bible, given to her by the prison chaplain, and that's it. That's what she had in there. A shitty TV and a fucking Bible. Oh, my. That's it. So, June 4th, 2003, the judge denies a motion in the Matthew Schallenberger case, okay? There was a thing here. He was accused, obviously, of the shooting. Schallenberger's attorney asked a Pennsylvania County court judge here to strike evidence of future dangerousness in the Commonwealth's pursuit of the death penalty, because Schallenberger had no previous convictions. So, the judge ruled here denies the motion, though. So. That's that. I will look at that. And he said, I read the law to be broader than what you say, he said, adding that the lawyer could be absolutely right about his interpretation, but he's like, I read it a different way, and I'm the judge, so I'm going to go with my reading. I'm judging it this way. So, Schallenberger says, fuck it, go into trial, then. Let's do it. Why would you go to trial here? They all are going to testify against you. Yeah, not a chance. There's a ton of evidence. During jury selection, he makes a deal. Yeah. So, he's going to testify against you. Sometimes this is just for posturing. You have no idea how much money is wasted on, we're going to select the jury, and we're going to do all this shit, and then right before it starts, they plea. It's just a game of chicken. How far will you go? How far will I go? Neither of us want to go to trial, but we're ready to do it. It's one of those. So, he makes a deal. During sentencing, his father, Brian, testified that he was not a good role model for his son. Apparently, Schallenberger had a shitty life. I'm sure he was. Shitty child life. End up in a fucking trailer with this other idiot with a goal of becoming a hitman. Yeah. Right. At 21? Come on. At 21. Yeah. He said, I wish I had done some things differently. Well, let's see what we find out, because he seems to be, him and Teresa are the main two for me. Well, it's the same judge, too, by the way. Judge Strauss. You, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison. No parole. He really fucking hates what she did. He hates that she made her daughter fuck a guy in a park. Yeah, it has to be that, because otherwise, yeah, it makes it so much more callous. Yeah. They said he gave his reason. He said he agreed with the Commonwealth that all three conspirators deserve death, but felt unable in good conscience to sentence Schallenberger to death when the Commonwealth already offered Rodney life. Yeah. So I can't give one shooter more than the other shooter. Yeah. That's what he said. So he receives multiple life terms. It's a ton. When this lady is, she knows she's got a 16 year old. She's old enough to know better. Fuck. Yeah, I would say. So August 22nd, 2003, Schallenberger writes letters from prison, not to Teresa, by the way, to other people here on the subject. This is to a friend on the subject of why he he said he's telling her he never slept with Teresa, which we know is horseshit. He said to get her to fall in love with him or why he had ever. I'm sorry. Why did you ever sleep with her? He said it was for her to fall in love with him. So she would give him the insurance money. He's called the entire relationship work. It was all work. I was putting in some time because I'm a I'm a hit man. That's what I do. And he said part of the job was fucking her. That was what I had to do to get that money in a separate letter to an ex-girlfriend. He said that. Why go to New York for $20,000 a hit when he could do one job and make $150,000 off of it? Okay. He thinks, well, yeah, no one's paying you $20,000. There's a hit in one place and no one paid you. He said $350,000. No one's giving you that either. So he exaggerated his importance to his girlfriend. Yeah. And also, he said in the same letter that Teresa was, quote, exactly what he was looking for. A moron with money who he could manipulate. Yes. Someone who's into his whole vibe. What did he think he was going to do? She's going to get the money. Yeah. What do you think? He's going to get all of it. All of it himself? Okay. He thought she was so stupid that she'd just give it to him or whatever. And she ended up being like, fuck that guy. I'll keep it all myself. I'm not paying him at all. She double-crossed him, which is hilarious. I love that. November 2003, Christy's going to trial. Really? She's going to trial. It's got no choice. They have taped interviews of Christy with the sheriff investigator. In those tapes, she said that she learned the plot through communication. When they asked her why she consented to providing a false alibi to her mother the night the murder was supposed to happen, she said, quote, because she's my mom. That's my mom. Which is very reasonable. Rodney Fuller testifies. I'm 16. She told me to. That's why. That's why. Yeah. Rodney Fuller testifies that during his two encounters with Christy, she mentioned neither CJ nor Julian. So, like, she wasn't saying, oh, I'm blowing you. so you'll kill my stepdad or something. So a sheriff's investigator said that in his interviews with Teresa following the shootings yielded no mention of her daughter either. So Christy wasn't really in it that much. She was as peripheral a person as you could be. She wasn't involved in the planning. She wasn't the money. She wasn't getting anything. She was just kind of extra danger muffin. Yeah. She's just like mom's murder cheerleader on the side. Like, yeah, I'm in it with you. I'll help you whatever I can. And in the closings, the prosecutor here compared Christy's role in the shootings to that of a person who gave a group of terrorists $5 for gas money, knowing they were on their way to bomb a federal building. Everything was compared to terrorists in 2002. Everything. Everything. You could steal a pack of juicy fruit from the store and they'd be like, this is like a terrorist walking into a military complex and stealing missiles to blow up a building. Everything was terrorism. What if everything. Everybody took a little juicy fruit. It's like it's it's a it's a one stone. Yeah. Then they ain't going to call Wrigley Field Wrigley no more because they ain't going to have no juicy fruit money. That works. It's like if everybody threw a stone, then dead people die. That's how it works. So what if we all went five miles an hour over speed limit? Then what? So he also said that Bean was an accessory because she agreed. She agreed to supply her mother a false alibi to throw off investigators. And she talked with Julian Lewis on the telephone just hours before he was killed to assure him that nothing bad was going to happen to him. She didn't say that, but it was just like, hey, look how we all friendly we all are tonight. They also recalled statements that Christie made to investigators between the day of the shootings and late November, during which the girl admitted to knowing about the failed to October 23rd, 2002 attempt on Julian's life. And that the murders that occurred a week later. So she could have stopped had it stopped. Just like you were saying the other guy did. He said she knew everything was going to happen before it happened. Right. Now, the defense said in closing statements that she's been manipulated by her mother. That's true. She said, I submit to you that she was, in fact, another tool used by her mother, a disposable tool. And she said that that his client was also a tool for the Commonwealth. Since her statements to investigators. Led them to identify and arrest Fuller because her mom and only talk about Schallenberger. I submit, Your Honor, that she is a tool that she is a tool, a double tool. The only time that being a tool is a positive. So tell him I'm a tool. Go ahead. Keep telling them that the defense attorney also said that when Teresa told her daughter that killing Julian and CJ would solve a lot of problems. This is what Teresa told police that. And Christy said, you solve a lot of problems, but it may it may do that, but it would still be wrong. Yeah. Okay. So some form of morals. So it's a 10 man, two woman jury here deliberated for an hour before convicting her of conspiracy and two counts of first degree murder as an accessory before the fact. So not good. As the verdicts were read, the defense attorneys asked that the two. Accessory verdicts be set aside by the judge. He said they are contrary to the law and the evidence, saying that Bean's father and stepmother each were crying by them, also crying there. So she was the only defendant to actually go through the whole trial phase. Everybody else bled, as we'll talk about here now during sentencing. So since she's a minor, she's only 17 at this point. The sentencing will be, I guess. I guess it'll be decided by a judge who could sentence her as a juvenile or an adult or a combination of both. Okay. In sentencing, the prosecutor said that she should be sentenced as an adult because her role was small but significant. They recalled her statements to investigators in which she talked on the phone with Lewis hours before he was killed in order to reassure him. They said she was the last chance that CJ and Julian had. We can point to a number of things that she could have done. The defense. They put Billy Bean up there. And he said he's been visiting his daughter every Saturday since her conviction. He said, I have watched my daughter break down and cry. She is very sorry. Which certainly sounds like you're sticking up for a teenager when you say that. Billy's attempted to bolster. He attempted to bolster the argument that Bean was a victim of manipulation. He said Teresa Lewis had tried to maintain contact with her daughter through letters in prison, in jail. She said, I know how manipulative Teresa was to me. And she manipulated Christie. Okay. Okay. Christie, when asked if she wants to make a statement, she said, I'm sorry. In a shaky voice. That's it. Bean's attorney asked that the judge sentence his client as a juvenile or that she served some time in a juvenile and the remainder of an adult or, you know, let's do this. Yeah. Fine. He said a sentence is needed to rehabilitate her. I don't think there's much rehabilitating to be done. Um, there's that much. Now, he said he wasn't seeking to reduce his client's culpability, but also saying that Bean wasn't going to get anything out of the murder plot and her expressions of remorse, lack of any criminal record status as an honor student at school. The fact that our mother made her do this, the fact that she could still lead a productive life. They said this is really the only life that Teresa Lewis has touched that can be salvaged. Right. Give her a break. Um, they argued that. She was under the influence of her mother. Several defense witnesses testified that the girl desperately wanted to maintain a relationship with her mother from whom she had been estranged earlier in her life and didn't want her to go away again. Judge says, you young lady here. Um, I'll read this. Christy Bean's father, Billy Bean, appeared on the verge of tears Monday when Judge Strauss ruled that she would be sentenced as an adult. Oh, fixed her punishment at 20 years for both murder convictions. And 10 years for the conspiracy charge. Yeah. Cause you, you, yeah, ma, you can do it. That's not good. But seconds later, Billy Bean and his family breathes sighs of relief when Strauss suspended the sentence for the murder convictions and half of the conspiracy sentence. She gets five. Strauss, Strauss mandated Bean be on probation for five years, refrain from possession of drugs or alcohol, receive substance abuse and mental health care. Reimbursed court costs and remain on good behavior for 20 years. Oh, this girl's in prison, right? Uh, she could have spent the rest of her life in prison. So she didn't get shit. She got suspended. Yeah. Cause what is it? She's on probation for 25 years, 20 years for the murders, 10 years for conspiracy. So she did five. I think she got five years and then probation and refrain and then 20 years of probation afterwards. Okay. Wow. Um, so she was sentenced. Five years in prison basically is what she got out of this. So she's still on probation today. Yeah. She would still be well, 20 years. This was 2004. So she would have just gotten off. Oh, 20 years after her five. So no, she was. Yes. You're right. You're absolutely right. Um, prosecutor said she had knowledge and that's what it's all about. Um, the prosecutor said that the prosecution could be concluded because they said, anybody else you're going to put, this is like five people so far. Um, and he said that no one else is currently charged and convicted. But he said, Hey, you never know if anybody else pops up, he said, there may be someone who had a peripheral role and we're going to get them in here. We'll get them. So March 5th, 2004 is a direct appeal. Um, she raises for Teresa. These are all appeals for Teresa. She raises the disparity argument that no Virginia court has ever approved death for a mere hire on the vileness predicate alone. And that her sentence was disproportionate given that both trigger men received life. I think it's a pretty decent argument. Um, and she raises the disparity argument that no Virginia court has ever approved death for a mere hire on the vileness predicate alone and that her sentence was disproportionate given that both trigger men received life. Um, she raises the disparity argument that no Virginia court has ever approved death for a mere hire on the vileness predicate alone and that both trigger men received life. Personally, for me, um, the court risk rejected it on established doctrine that Virginia repeatedly refused to let capital defendants compare their sentences to those received by Confederates, not people in the Confederacy, their Confederates, anybody confederated with Virginia. You can, it can go either way. You never know. Um, comparative review looks at whether sentences in Virginia generally approve our sentencers generally approve the Supreme penalty for similar cases, not what a code. Defendant got. So it's to the aggregate of all the cases, not just your case. They also argued her gender should factor into proportionality. She's arguing you shouldn't kill me because I have a vagina, which is generally how we operate in this country for more or less. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's just, I don't know. It's fine. That's just how we all feel. If you look at statistically same crime, women get sentenced much less than men do because we look at them as less dangerous. Yeah. So about that dollar an hour. Yeah. So the court. Yeah. Right. That's, that's fucking, that's, that's a funny thing. So he said the court, the court declined firmly stating that all criminal statutes in the Commonwealth must be applied without regard to gender and refusing what it characterized as an invitation to apply capital murder statutes in a discriminatory fashion. What you're saying is you shouldn't kill women, only men, which we can't really apply the law. Yeah. Evidence of depravity of mind overwhelming and recited the reasons she married her husband because she wanted his money. Planned the murders to acquire his assets and her stepson's policy. Failed first attempt. Involved her 16-year-old. Encouraged her to have sexual relations with a murderer. Paid for the shotguns and the ammo. Took her husband's wallet while laying bleeding and split the cash up to the killers. Waited 45 minutes in a house with him while he suffered. Didn't give a shit. Showed no remorse or emotion. Initially denied involvement. And on the night of the murders, she prayed with her husband and arranged for her daughter to speak with him. They affirm this. Yeah. Okay. November of 2004, a private investigator working for Lewis's post-conviction team travels to Wallens Ridge State Prison in Big Stone Gap, Virginia, which is right next to Danger Muffin. Big Stone Gap is right next to. What was the other gap? There was somebody else gap too. Bald Gap or some shit like that. He goes up to interview Matthew Schallenberger. According to the investigator's sworn account, Schallenberger said that from the moment he met Teresa Lewis, he knew she was someone who could be easily manipulated. Really? And that from that moment he met her, he had a plan for how to use her to get money. Yeah. He was like, fucking get this. He's a scumbag. So they make an affidavit. He signs it. And then basically, this is wild. He tells the whole story. They have it printed up in an affidavit. He signs the affidavit, looks at it. Then he tears off the portions of the paper that had his signature on it, put them in his mouth and swallowed them. Why? I don't know. Who the fuck knows? Just to decide I'm eating this paper. What is the show of that? That he changed his mind? Never mind. I didn't sign this. Fuck it. I don't want to help her. I decided. Okay. On the way. On the way out, Schallenberger said to him, what will happen will happen. They're going to kill her. I don't give a fuck. A signed affidavit is evidence. A partially transcribed one whose signature has been eaten is not exactly as good of a legal document, apparently, here. So 2006 now, Wallens Ridge State Prison. Matthew, he kills himself. Dead. What? Done. Offs himself. What will happen will happen. He's like 25, 26, dead. So early into the sentence. Didn't want to do another fucking 60 years. Four years of that will probably make you want to do it. That's plenty. That's plenty, probably. It's enough to really consider it. Good enough for me. Yeah. So back to post-conviction appeals for Teresa. Yeah. She argued ineffective assistance of counsel, that the trial counsel had successfully refuted future dangerousness, but had failed to do so. Failed to investigate and present evidence that would have refuted depravity of mind, specifically evidence that she was incapable of masterminding anything. This whole thing, yeah. She said, mastermind and me should not be in the same sentence ever. Just not the same. The hearing was conducted by Judge Strauss himself. The defense assembles a panel. Dr. Philip Costanzo, Ph.D. from Duke University, a psychologist, evaluated her post-conviction, concluded she had a dependent personality disorder. Described her as having trouble making ordinary decisions without the advice of others. Difficulty in initiating activities on her own. And a need for other people to assume responsibility for most major aspects of her life. He estimated her functional mental age at roughly 12 or 13. He argued she lacked the verbal intelligence and independent initiative to frame and lead the plot. His formulation was this. A woman functionally impaired, intellectually passively dependent. And habitually submissive to men is a poor bet as the mastermind of a brutal murder plot. And also, yes. And also he said the IQ score, they make an arbitrary 70 is your cutoff here. She's got a 72, so she's fine. Whereas if she had a 69, then we could say she was. So he's like, there's really very little difference between a 72 and a 69 is what this guy's saying. And if she took it on a different day, it might have been 69. Yeah. Yeah. So another Dr. Katz here, not the cartoon who's on the 90s on Comedy Central. That's a good one too. An addiction. I loved it. That, the critic, I love that shit. Who is Dr. Katz? Jonathan Katz. Who is the voice? Jonathan Katz. He's a comedian. Oh, it was, wasn't it? Yeah. He's an addiction psychiatrist. And also he found, gave H. John Benjamin his first voiceover work. I don't know shit. He's a fucking, the guy's awesome. So this lady, an addiction psychiatrist, testifies that, Lewis had a severe addiction to prescription narcotics and that the quantity she was taking around the time of the murders would have impaired her cognition and flattened the affect she displayed to others, which would explain the coldness observed. She's pilled up. Now, Dr. Barbara Haskins, the original court-appointed psychiatrist, expanded her findings and concluded that Teresa suffered from a dependent personality disorder and a dependence on narcotics. Another doctor, her treating gynecologist, I don't know why that's relevant. Let me tell you about her pussy. Now, I get that her brain and she's doing all, her pussy, though, is in top shape. You don't know what a yeast infection will do to a woman. No idea. No, it's in, it's top shape. She, you put a speculum in there, she snaps it off with that thing. It's, it's, it's impressive. It's, I wonder why. So, and Deborah Gray, a social worker and substance abuse counselor who conducted a full mitigation investigation, also concluded she was addicted to prescription drugs. I can feel it in her pussy. She's addicted. She's addicted. It's warm. It's warm down there. A 2004 Virginia Commonwealth University psychiatrist evaluation reached a parallel conclusion. Borderline intellectual dysfunction, passive dependent personality features, and drug dependence made it highly unlikely she initiated and planned the crime. Yeah. Yeah, I think that Schallenberger got out of her that there was some insurance involved, and I think he, I think he was. Manipulated the dum-dum. Yeah. Into wanting it, yeah. The state put up Dr. Lee Hagan, a forensic and clinical psychologist, and he said that there was insufficient evidence to support the claim that she was actually addicted to prescription meds, or that her use of them caused extreme mental or emotional disturbance. She did not meet the diagnostic criteria for dependent personality disorder. What she exhibited instead in his framing was a passive-aggressive or aggressive dependency, characteristics involving the use of other people to achieve one's, to achieve one's own objectives. Yeah. He said that's a genuinely different diagnosis. It's not she was used, it's using people is her method. Fascinating, yeah. And he said she had the capacity to plan and carry out a murder plot. And they also said that the Commonwealth had two concessions from the defense witnesses. Dr. Katz acknowledged that Lewis's behavior around the time of the murders was purposeful and goal-directed, and admitted that her ability to carry out the murder plans was not affected by her prescription drug use, if she was so high. Lewis herself had admitted she was not under the influence of any drugs at the time of the murders, and there was no evidence that she experienced withdrawal or adverse effects after her arrest and incarceration. So she wasn't that hooked, is what they're saying. Right, she's not an addict. Yes. They said, now her trial counsel said that they didn't develop that mitigation because they knew about the low IQ, the alleged prescription drug difficulty, and possible dependent personality traits. They made a strategic decision not to pursue them, and their reasoning was specific. The low IQ was already going in front of the judge in the competency report, free of charge with no downside. That's just whatever. The other two were double-edged swords. Presenting a drug addiction and dependent personality would open her up to potentially damaging evaluation by an expert, which is exactly what happened when they did this in post here. They said, Worse, both were excuses that would have supported the future dangerousness aggravator. They said, We were trying not to make excuses. We were trying to say she's sorry, she's remorseful, whatever. They said, A woman with an untreated addiction and personality disorder that makes her latch on to dominant men is a woman who may do it again. Yeah, she finds another man that's dangerous, yeah. All they have to do is give her some drugs and would have undercut their entire strategy of portraying a nonviolent defendant who had accepted responsibility and helped arrest her co-conspirators. So this wasn't them forgetting about it or not. This is a strategy. This is their strategy, and it's a sound one, I think, honestly. I mean, it didn't work, but the strategy defeated future dangerousness, and the judge threw that aggravator out, and the defense won that fight. So it was smart for that. The judge found that counsel had made reasonable and proper choices and that Lewis had failed to show either deficient performance or prejudice, and the Virginia Supreme Court rejected the claims on prejudice grounds alone, holding that any psychological, cognitive, and physical difficulties Lewis may have had could not explain or even mitigate the carefully calculated conduct she exhibited in carrying this out. Affirmed. Okay, so how's Teresa doing in jail here? It's not good. Is she dead? Well, let's find out. Lynn Litchfield, the former chaplain in Virginia where she was being held, described her in a Newsweek article and said, seemed meek, almost pliant. When I hugged her, the only humiliation hug we ever shared she was so grateful she didn't look like a remorseless killer a mastermind who plotted murders as the judge put it her original lawyers did little to dispute this image she goes on to say which they they did plenty to dispute that in one of our sessions she collapsed into great soul-shattering body heaving sobs and cried into my wrist the only part of me i could get through the slot in the door put through the slot in the door and she cried touching her okay she is scheduled for execution in 2010 here holy shit june 2010 three months before the execution to the fourth circuit court we go the opinion is the most complete basically they they go to them with the she couldn't have planned an argument and they eviscerate it and say yes she goddamn could have she was the wife of the victim she alone stood to profit we've gone over all this she withdrew everything she gave them the money they got the shotgun she's making calls she's setting up she's she's doing a lot of them with her kid too like that yeah wow blaming cj for the unlocked door in front of the cops i mean these are all things dumb people really dumb people couldn't do she began pursuing the paycheck while the victims were still in the mobile home yeah still not even taken out yet forged a check for 50 grand made plans to trade in cars offered to sell the land did all this shit affirmed she's not too stupid there's a big fight about the iq the number oh that's the thing the number they said one significantly basically it left states to define the condition using the clinical criteria requiring three things not one the supreme court did this basically they didn't say here's the number if they're under this they're fine if they're over this whatever um they held that executing people with quote mental retardation violates the eighth amendment but that's all they said yeah but they didn't really say what that was and didn't define how to do it they said they didn't say what that was and didn't define how to do it they said they didn't say what that was and didn't define how to do it they said they didn't say what that was and didn't define how to do it define how you define that essentially so they said that um it requires all three of these things significantly sub-average intellectual functional functioning classically about two standard deviations below the mean often operationalized around iq of 70 significant limitations and adaptive behavior across conceptual social and practical domains um onset before the age of 18 so okay um they so okay um they passed virginia passed emergency legislation passed virginia passed emergency legislation passed virginia passed emergency legislation um to track this structure it's um to track this structure it's um to track this structure it's interesting though the score alone was interesting though the score alone was interesting though the score alone was not going to be enough 72 not going to be enough 72 not going to be enough 72 was not a good number the court was not a good number the court was not a good number the court that's enough points that's enough points that's enough points yeah that's yeah that's what they're yeah that's yeah that's what they're yeah that's yeah that's what they're saying so yeah then a later test by a saying so yeah then a later test by a saying so yeah then a later test by a commonwealth psychologist in the fall of commonwealth psychologist in the fall of commonwealth psychologist in the fall of 2005 produced a 70. 2005 produced a 70. 2005 produced a 70. so somewhere between 70 and 72 or just so somewhere between 70 and 72 or just so somewhere between 70 and 72 or just bad day could have not slept well that bad day could have not slept well that bad day could have not slept well that day or something or somebody told her day or something or somebody told her day or something or somebody told her try real hard to get in the 60s try real hard to get in the 60s try real hard to get in the 60s i don't think she'd have to try real i don't think she'd have to try real i don't think she'd have to try real hard hard hard seems like um so the measurement error seems like um so the measurement error seems like um so the measurement error argument is real and the strongest thing argument is real and the strongest thing her lawyers had the iq instruments carry her lawyers had the iq instruments carry her lawyers had the iq instruments carry a standard of error measurement a standard of error measurement a standard of error measurement typically around plus or five minus five typically around plus or five minus five typically around plus or five minus five points which is why clinicians treat 70 points which is why clinicians treat 70 points which is why clinicians treat 70 to 75 as a gray zone rather than a to 75 as a gray zone rather than a to 75 as a gray zone rather than a boundary and a 72 is not cleanly boundary and a 72 is not cleanly boundary and a 72 is not cleanly separable from a 69 that could be a 67 separable from a 69 that could be a 67 separable from a 69 that could be a 67 yes so anyway there's that now august yes so anyway there's that now august yes so anyway there's that now august 12 2010 rodney fuller makes an affidavit 12 2010 rodney fuller makes an affidavit 12 2010 rodney fuller makes an affidavit he stated that everyone knew theresa he stated that everyone knew theresa he stated that everyone knew theresa wasn't smart and that matthew was the wasn't smart and that matthew was the wasn't smart and that matthew was the dominant one in the relationship dominant one in the relationship dominant one in the relationship he said between um theresa and matthew he said between um theresa and matthew he said between um theresa and matthew matthew was definitely the one in charge matthew was definitely the one in charge matthew was definitely the one in charge yeah the affidavit though um obviously yeah the affidavit though um obviously yeah the affidavit though um obviously runs in the opposite direction of runs in the opposite direction of runs in the opposite direction of matthews um fuller already had his deal matthews um fuller already had his deal matthews um fuller already had his deal so he had nothing to lose here uh john so he had nothing to lose here uh john so he had nothing to lose here uh john grisham quoted that line in the grisham quoted that line in the grisham quoted that line in the washington post on september 12 2010 in washington post on september 12 2010 in washington post on september 12 2010 in an op-ed arguing that lewis's death an op-ed arguing that lewis's death an op-ed arguing that lewis's death sentence was an example of the sentence was an example of the sentence was an example of the unfairness of the system and making the unfairness of the system and making the unfairness of the system and making the point that had point that had point that had this uh what could make a killer more this uh what could make a killer more this uh what could make a killer more culpable than repeatedly shooting a culpable than repeatedly shooting a culpable than repeatedly shooting a sleeping victim yeah why are you doing sleeping victim yeah why are you doing sleeping victim yeah why are you doing these um he writes that the iq just these um he writes that the iq just these um he writes that the iq just above 70 borderline retarded quote above 70 borderline retarded quote above 70 borderline retarded quote unquote as such lacks the basic skills unquote as such lacks the basic skills unquote as such lacks the basic skills necessary to organize and lead a necessary to organize and lead a necessary to organize and lead a conspiracy to commit a murder for hire conspiracy to commit a murder for hire conspiracy to commit a murder for hire he goes on with this whole thing here he goes on with this whole thing here he goes on with this whole thing here um about a lot about iq tests and about um about a lot about iq tests and about um about a lot about iq tests and about um um um lewis was also a prolific writer in prison lewis was also a prolific writer in prison lewis was also a prolific writer in prison frequently sending letters to various frequently sending letters to various frequently sending letters to various pen pals and trial counsel lewis even pen pals and trial counsel lewis even pen pals and trial counsel lewis even planned to and appeared for cosmetic planned to and appeared for cosmetic planned to and appeared for cosmetic appointments while incarcerated in appointments while incarcerated in preparation for her court appearances preparation for her court appearances preparation for her court appearances based on those operations he opined that based on those operations he opined that based on those operations he opined that lewis had the capacity to act lewis had the capacity to act lewis had the capacity to act intentionally now grisham writes that intentionally now grisham writes that intentionally now grisham writes that lewis had a dependent personality lewis had a dependent personality lewis had a dependent personality disorder and all that and just disorder and all that and just disorder and all that and just basically makes a big stink in the basically makes a big stink in the basically makes a big stink in the washington post washington post washington post women here not executed very often women here not executed very often women here not executed very often like we said like we said the state has not executed a woman the state has not executed a woman the state has not executed a woman since virginia christian was put to death since virginia christian was put to death since virginia christian was put to death in 1912 she was convicted of murder in 1912 she was convicted of murder in 1912 she was convicted of murder in elizabeth city county which isn't even in elizabeth city county which isn't even in elizabeth city county which isn't even a county anymore a county anymore a county anymore state law was changed in 1908 requiring state law was changed in 1908 requiring state law was changed in 1908 requiring all executions to be performed by the all executions to be performed by the all executions to be performed by the electric chair electric chair electric chair uh and in richmond before that they uh and in richmond before that they uh and in richmond before that they uh something like that 2010 there were 52 uh something like that 2010 there were 52 uh something like that 2010 there were 52 women on death row across the country women on death row across the country women on death row across the country or 1.41 percent of the total death row or 1.41 percent of the total death row or 1.41 percent of the total death row population of 3692. we do not like population of 3692. we do not like sentencing women to death you guys are sentencing women to death you guys are sentencing women to death you guys are doing great doing great doing great period yeah that is a if you're a woman period yeah that is a if you're a woman period yeah that is a if you're a woman you get sentenced to death you you get sentenced to death you you get sentenced to death you did some and it had some stank on it did some and it had some stank on it did some and it had some stank on it yeah um in the past 100 years more than yeah um in the past 100 years more than yeah um in the past 100 years more than 40 women have been executed in the 40 women have been executed in the 40 women have been executed in the united states 10 of them since 1976 the united states 10 of them since 1976 the united states 10 of them since 1976 the last woman executed eileen warnos in last woman executed eileen warnos in last woman executed eileen warnos in 2002. yeah yeah 2002. yeah yeah 2002. yeah yeah according to a study a professor of a according to a study a professor of a according to a study a professor of a professor here professor here professor here he said as of january 9 2003 California and North Carolina have sentenced the most women to death with 16 each, followed by Florida with 15 and Texas with 13. Half of those in California were the Manson girls, though. That was the difference. Oh, sentenced to death. Given death is a different story. Sentenced to death, yeah, exactly. California has 14 women on death row, twice as many as any other state, but they're never going to execute them. And twice the population, too. Also, more than that, yeah. Three women were, yeah, per capita, it's whatever. Three women were executed in 2001, all in Oklahoma. Jesus, Oklahoma, what the fuck are you guys doing over there? The most executions nationally of women in any other year since 1953. Wow. Wow. 13 women who killed their husbands are currently on death row, five of whom have been sentenced to death in the past four years. 11 women who killed their children are currently on death row, six of whom have been sentenced in the last four years. August 25th, 2010, clemency petition to the governor, Robert F. McDonald. John Grisham was writing to the governor doing all this. A former Fluvana chaplain is campaigning publicly. This became a huge, I don't know if you remember this, but this was a big, this was a big fucking deal at the time. There was a lot of people that did not want her to get executed. Really? A lot, yeah. Saying that, well, number one, she's a woman, and number two, she's mentally challenged. Yeah. And she's mentally challenged. Yeah, that's what it is. So, yeah, they want a commutation. Teresa makes a statement to the governor, quote, I just want the governor to know that I am so sorry deeply from my heart, and if I could take it back, I would, in a minute. I just wish I could take it back, and I'm sorry for all the people that I've hurt in the process. I thought she didn't pull a trigger. No. I would have put that in there. Having carefully reviewed the petition for clemency, the judicial opinions in this case, and other relevant materials, I find no compelling reason to set aside the sentence that was imposed. Holy shit. She sends a request to reconsider on September 20th, denied like within an hour. This shit's going to expire. We got to go. Supreme Court. Yeah. They deny a stay. Seven to two vote there. September 18th, she's moved from Fluvana to Greensville Correctional Center, where the death, the house is. Yeah. She spent her last hours praying and singing hymns. Her attorney said she was peaceful and she accepted what was coming a long time before. She wrote a message to her fellow inmates at Fluvana, which was read aloud at prison service. Man wants me to die, but I'm not worrying over this. I'm trusting Jesus. He will forgive you of all your sins and he'll bring you into his loving arms. That's what I'm told. September 23rd, 2010, Execution Day. In an interview, she said, I wish I could give Kathy the world and take away her hurt. Oh, the daughter. Last meal. What did she ask for? Peach cobbler. Two fried chicken breasts, sweet peas with butter, a Dr. Pepper, and apple pie. Apple pie. Yeah. Not that bad. Solid moves. I always pick a nice dessert. Got to have dessert. Yeah. I usually don't, but today, why not? Yeah. They run the strawberry ice cream a lot. Apple pie and some cobbler. Those are the comments. They bring her in. They have the phone there connected to the warden's office right next to the whole thing. It never rings. She comes in wearing a light blue shirt, dark blue pants, and flip flops, and they put her down. they put her down like a fucking wow that's that she said at the end i just want the last words or i just want kathy to know that i love you and i'm very sorry yeah yeah you're a german shepherd today climb on the bed 9 13 p.m um wow two four or 2014 the supreme court decided in hall versus florida and held that the states cannot apply a rigid iq 70 cutoff while ignoring the standard error error of measurement meaning five on each side yeah theresa lewis's lawyers were making that argument in 2010 but it became law in 2014 that would have helped her um they said even a clean 70 doesn't produce an exemption without significant developmentally originating adaptive deficits and that was the weakest developed part of her case and the part the commonwealth leaned on the hardest yeah um they said is 70 a hard floor or must the court treat 70 to 75 as a range required so that's the whole thing march 2021 virginia abolishes capital punishment oh fuck yeah she just missed it man she is the last yeah that's not bad though normally these could have kept it alive kept it going the last woman executed in the commonwealth of virginia she is theresa first one since 1912 12 or whatever and the last one to have it done under the law uh none of the three conspirators in the case could be said sentenced to death and the last one in the united states today right i think we've killed a woman since then have we 2010 pretty sure oh yeah that was just virginia we definitely did because there was a there was a grandma yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly we've done i think cases where we've done that um now the boys there's the men i should say cj and julian here were buried at the school field cemetery in danville virginia yeah fuller rodney fuller still in prison um he by the way got in trouble a couple of times in may of 2012 one for assault on a law enforcement officer um and one same day possession of a cell phone and uh he got an extra five years for each of those he's currently uh id number 1144992 in lawrenceville correctional center he's 43 nearly out he's only 43 he's fucking up god damn it rodney only far he got like he's multiple life without paroles oh right right right right he's toast anyway he doesn't almond got 20 years or whatever the fuck yes by the way the murder house um is currently worth 118 500 it still exists three bedroom two bath 1080 square foot on a 5.01 acre lot built in 2002 that is our house oh my god put it on there brand new place and they ruined it it's fucking murdered up so there you go everybody that is virginia my christ virginia you guys that is some wild stuff keeling virginia yeah yeah that's just crazy i don't know i'm i feel like if you give the shooters life you give her life that's crazy you can't that's you can't give her worse than the people who actually think about rodney shot a guy three times then went back on another gun went in shot him twice more that's so different than yeah i'd like insurance money it's just that's if you if that guy doesn't go to the death penalty you can't give her the judge really does not like her uh paying for murder in her child's pussy currency nope and that's i think that's a lot of what it was that's a problem stank on it i'll even manipulate my daughter right you can't be the person being manipulated if you're also manipulating other people i think that's how they probably looked at it so anyway there you go you're sucking and fucking at the same time too that's not good each other that's crazy weird and gross and creepy um imagine if your dad was like mount up beside me son you'd be like oh fuck away from me but it's like she it's like she outsourced one of the dicks because she was tired of taking both that's like he'll get one that's fine wow so anyway there you go if you enjoyed that story or any of the stories we've told please get on whatever app you're listening on give us five stars or however they measure shit give us the most you can give us it really helps double thumbs up on netflix fucking appreciate it and i'll see you next time on the appreciated guys thank you for doing that thank you head over to shut up and give me murder.com get all the merchandise for any of the shows and also get tickets for live shows everybody come out and see us at a live show the fall is live show season yeah we will be in a couple days this friday yeah september the 18th 2026 at the papst in milwaukee i don't know if there's any tickets left for that but check there might be um minneapolis the next night on september 19th state theater get your damn tickets right now october third dallas jesus we're coming to texas come on help us out here october 16th san jose 17th sacramento california come out and see us in northern california uh terrytown on november 13th which is just about sold out might be gone and then on november the 14th in boston or just outside in medford medford shut up and give me murder what is that the chevalier that one the nice yeah the chevalier yeah a fucking great theater so come out and see us there uh shut up and give me murder.com murder.com is where you get all of that good stuff you should also get yourself patreon trust us patreon p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com slash crime in sports just like the name of our other show there that is where you get all the bonus material and that is gold anybody five dollars a month or above you get everything we put out i'm talking you're going to subscribe as soon as you subscribe you have access to almost 400 back bonus episodes you can binge on there's a lot of good stuff there too and then uh you get new ones every other week one crime in sports one small town murder and you get all of it this week for crime in sports and you don't have to like sports at all in the third 1930s and 40s there was a guy named lawn chair larry can't wait to hear about him who decided he wanted to make an aerial device out of his lawn chair and crazy man we'll decide how that went and then uh for small town murder hey everybody donner party part two yeah the snow has fallen yeah the stomachs are growling we're going let's get to eating bad things are going to happen so let's get into this uh patreon.com slash crime in sports and you also get everything we put out all of our shows crime and sports your stupid opinions all the small town murders all ad free with your patreon as well and you get a shout out which happens right now jimmy do me a big favor here hit me with the names of the best goddamn people going people who who would never have forced their daughters to have sex with us and cars and then murder us you know the people jimmy hit me with them right fucking now there's an executive producer peyton meadows gary howards in akron oh my oh jesus close to happy hours in midland texas that's a wash oh yeah aaron webb happy birthday aaron happy birthday uh scouts favorite pibbling what's a pibbling james beats the balls off of me i don't know john and alicia grant thank you both very much thank you uh delaney levercy are celebrating their fourth anniversary wow they've been married for four years we met them when they weren't even married yet that's crazy congratulations now they have babies they're yeah one baby anyway nice people though we love you guys thank you hey there he is what's up rj van dam as well thank you you guys are the best other producers this week janice hill a falsetto child janice a falsetto child that's a overboard reference yeah a falsetto child sorry did she say that she's a falsetto child she's a falsetto child she's a it matter of fact or was it a question she the the kid went and she and he said she just said a falsetto child like yeah sorry lord shitter i don't know what that means michelle mcgibony wow denae castro shirley would know last name danny would know last name amy would know last name gina would know last name or gina i don't know matthew magnum derrick agostino uh carla mccaleb jennifer champlin stan and laura nunya would know last name jenna would know last name jenna would know last name nate valentine brianna giddens hendo would know last name christian shea dr z tara oh is this tanned tanned jay that's gotta be oh boy i may have written a that may be tara what's tanned is that somebody's real jill mcgranahan uh crystal townsend stacy levin make mackie hemp hill christa would know last name mitch kutch terry would know last name kayla elivera eliver elver rude phil horribin uh doug emerson brandy boots a butts butsy jennifer horley warley warley he wants somebody to be hor tonight she's really horley horley are you are you horley doc you doing horley doc christa pennington uh sealy sealy ritzua saili stacy lauren mary gad kathy joe mcmahon mcmahon that's mcmahon jackson would know last name gaylord dubois jr michael jones kindrick pleasant barbara would know last name cheryl fury jackie stillson jennifer r jennifer's jennifer rockhold i think that's the same person she has two probably jennifer rockhold rockhold that's like cuckold with all right louise mendiola transmission money kylie hooth with no oh that is her last name nancy anderson groovy juvie uh lawrence niece naise violet shattuck yep emily dane dane ann nan matthew parton uh esther brocca brockama brockima bronchima mariah piatt sakowit oh fuck trudy with no last name megan jay uh nathan phillips aaron long ryan fine bros nicky boudet uh diana seeley benjamin hallo hallo or shansi or sianci sianci pam would know last name cody sims erica anderson jen would know last name joshua maness brian allen cassandra swaggerty uh cara bergner miriam phelps jamie would know last name amy adkins emily adkins alex johnston praetorian praetorian stephanie brenn brandon bear what is this aileen dickinson corky corky cluff clue no loves britney santos you I don't know who either of them are ben tardif tardif uh rita g trisha mcfee angie from oz exul exoloma exoloma r y v x x what is that rivix uh azana reed kathy looper andrew would know last name hunter pogue chris peeler kimmy nguyen uh nicky would know last name uh anushka acharya acharya kevin would know last name brian wilkin brenda coach cock coke i don't know uh jenny reinwand rachel finston shikari s drew when wyone abby would know last name tracy shannon matthew kramer angie j brian bennett don would know last name cory seiler trucey tracy tracy q day philip would know last name who man sharifi l the letter l uh jennifer samir samir uh dan d'angelo casey michaela rust janet would know last name paul tate julie at three nope at bits 3d krista bauman uh alex graces j futch brandy h nicky r chay butter joyce uh kreiger brian would know last name jason sabine sean johnson hey todd i'm gonna marry steve take that todd charles would know last name brad brad gobin chloe lee andrea homequist nina c david burns marissa miller becca from nebraska xandra p and all of our patrons you're the best thank you so much everybody god damn it you're wonderful fantastic beautiful bastards shit we love you and uh we just can't tell you how appreciative we are of everything you do for us thank you thank you thank you thank you um thank you thank you tell your friends do all that good stuff keep doing it and i'll see you next time bye coming back and seeing us if you uh want to follow us on social media or anything like that shut up and give me murder.com has links to every damn thing you could possibly want so keep coming back and seeing us and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure bye Thank you.