A Unique Situation For 76ers + What Do Teams Who Missed Out On LeBron Do Now?

(upbeat music) - Hello, welcome to the collective podcast. We talk about the NBA. Joining us from Los Angeles, California, where he's there doing NBA today this week and wearing a Canadian tuxedo is Vince Goodwill. - Airplanes are a little cool for me, so I keep warm. What up, though, Wendy? What up, though, Mick? - What up, though, Vince? - Hey, I am a big believer in the hoodie all year round on the airplane, and I've got thin hoodies now that I hear all year round. And that guttural, you know very well coming from Dallas is Ben, McMahon. - Howdy, partners. I actually got a couple of new thin hoodies for my daughters for Father's Day. They are definitely the spring and summer airplane wear. No doubt about that, and hop on an airplane again tomorrow looking forward to wearing one of those. - All right. - We'll take free ones. That's what he's basically saying. Okay. So, that's several days to process LeBron James to Philly. And I'm gonna tell you, I feel like, you know, there were certain things when I was growing up and my father or I was reading about things that happened on the sports world and I just didn't understand them. I'd be like, wait a minute. Why did this player do this? Why did this coach do this? And I feel like down the line, people are gonna study the career of LeBron James and they're gonna say, what? Why did he go to Philly? And I think we have to acknowledge that this whole thing is a bit outrageous. Okay, so I've had a couple of days to process LeBron to the Sixers and I feel like it's something that people who look back in the future, maybe people who are too young to know what's going on or people aren't even born yet, they'll be like, what, how, how did that happen? And I think we have to embrace that this whole situation is a bit outrageous. You know, we're in it and we're analyzing it day by day or whatever and then it happens and you're supposed to react, but you take a step back, this is a pretty outrageous situation and it's because it's an, and a bit of an outrageous one off, right, you know, the idea that a player 24 years and it was career would have this situation and that he would be willing to play play for a low amount of money. It's, we've never seen anything like it. So everything that happens around it is a bit outside the normal way we would look at things. And so I'm just going to embrace that it's outrageous and I'm going to try to keep that going into the season then because I know you'll probably be and fill it quite a bit like, I don't know if it'll work 'cause I think everyone's like, you know, they're asking questions about legacy and how will that all work? Like, well, Jaylen Brown do this, well, Joel and B do this, what about DJ Edgecom? I call those are reasonable, but I think we have to understand that this is kind of ridiculous and we'll just see how this ridiculous ends up playing out. - It's unusual and as someone who was going to be playing rock, paper, scissors with some of the other ESPN writers in New York City, to what the honors of going on the Yisela train to get up and down the Philly or on particular days. I wouldn't have predicted this outcome. Like, even after watching the 76ers get waxed by the mix in a second, I think of all the changes that have happened with that franchise alone, like getting off of Paul George and getting Jaylen Brown. In most off seasons, that is the move of the off season, let alone getting a generational historic play. I think I've read something, which of course, this makes all the sense in a world where there's never been team that acquired two finals MVP's in the same off season. This is all ridiculous, but it is all fascinating. Like I do want to see this, I think Philly fan has a windy and McMahon taking a place of Nick Fan as being the object of an iron for me right now, because Philly fan thinks that, yeah, I know it's quite crazy, right? Philly fan went back to first take like two weeks ago, when I said that Philly doesn't seem like a great fit compared to the other options. Oh, you hate Philly, no, I just didn't think it was, it kind of felt ridiculous, all things consider, but not that we're here, I'm fascinated as anybody to watch how year 24, 25 plays out, the future of Joel and bead, how Jaylen Brown functions all this stuff, the Nick nurse of it all. Like this is one of the more fascinating stories we've come across in some time, and even if I didn't think LeBron was necessarily a great fit there, doesn't mean I'm not anxious to see how it all plays out. Yeah, and listen, I said multiple times, and maybe I'm getting hammered online, I'm just oblivious to it, which is fine by me. But I said multiple times, I didn't think Philly was a great fit for LeBron, not the other way around, 'cause look LeBron, if LeBron wants, LeBron can definitely shift into a facilitator, distributor, you know, initiator, table setter type of guy. But look, LeBron was not thrilled with being the third option in LA. I mean, he said it himself, but then in the season, he wanted a retire, and it kind of took some time to get past that. Do we believe that though? Well, I'll take the risk of taking him at his word there, but I do believe he was not thrilled being the third option, and I don't know that he's not the third or fourth option in Philly, so again, very curious to see how they figure that fit out, and it's gonna be a seasonal process to figure that out. I'm very curious to see how Jaylen Brown figures it out, 'cause he-- In my view, this is way more of a Jaylen Brown story than in LeBron's story. I mean, LeBron's had like 200 something teammates in his career. He has, you know, he's been on how many teams where they have totally redone the roster. Has that happened four or five times in his career? Every time he's changed teams for once. Sometimes like, remember in LA, like they did that roster the first year, they were like, nope, threw it out the window and redid it. Like, it's, I mean, he can handle that. Like, you know, obviously his skill level is a little bit diminished because of his age, but I'm not worried about LeBron fitting in and people are like, oh, what about LeBron is the third option for? How do we know he's gonna be the third or fourth option? I haven't seen him play yet. What if he's the first option? What if that happens? And I would say what's Tyrie's maxi doing? Well, fine. I would say how Jaylen Brown feel about that. I know how. How well and be doing? Well, I know how Tyrie's maxi is gonna play 'cause he's only one way he can play. I know how Joel and Beat is gonna play because generally Joel and Beat's gonna play how he can play. There's a whole range of ways that LeBron can play and there's a lot of different ways he can be fine with. There's also a whole range of ways that Jaylen Brown can play. Isn't it? I'm not sure how, of course there is. He plays multiple positions. He plays off the ball, he plays on the ball, you know, absolutely like the way he played this last season was completely different the way he played the year before. So my thing is, where is he at? He didn't choose this. LeBron chose this. Tyrie's maxi and then Beat were talking to LeBron on the phone, trying to talk him into it. Jaylen Brown didn't choose this. This was put onto Jaylen Brown. And so to me, this season, especially the early going, is very much a something I'm gonna be watching how Jaylen handles it. I'm gonna be paying attention to his interviews, even if that's not gonna be with him, but the overall consensus is gonna be. - That's an interesting point, Wendy. Because when I look at Philly, the person who I'm watching more than Jaylen Brown for whatever reason, I understand your answer. More than even LeBron James, I'm gonna be watching Joelle and Beat. Because he's the guy who has a regular season MVP to his record, but doesn't have a conference finals to his record. He's the guy that's played at what? A grand total of 58 games in the last two years. Like, he's the guy that has been there through all these different iterations of a Philadelphia 76er roster built around him. James Harden, Ben Simmons, Jimmy Butler, like all those players have been built to augment him. Where does this fit now? Like, how much pressure is on him to stay on the floor, to stay in shape, to be defensively? I think he can be defensively. I don't know if he can beat that anymore. I don't know if he can beat that vortex because his movement. If you saw that second round series against the Knicks, they ran everything at him and exploited him. How does that work now? And if things go wrong, you think LeBron's gonna care about getting blamed by Philly fans that he has no sweat equity in? Jaylen Brown, like you said, didn't choose the situation. He's got a championship. It's going to fall at the feet of Joelle and Beat. That's the player I'm watching to see how he handles all this. Yeah, I'm fascinated to see how he handles it. But Philly Delphi, it basically has to come up with a way to play that doesn't include Joelle and Beat because you cannot count on him being on the floor. And no, we talked about the other day, you've got four guys who excel at playing high tempo basketball. You've got four of the top 14 fast break scores in the NBA, including one and two in the start and lineup. And then you have Joelle and Beat, who is the epitome of kind of a, at this point in his career, a plotting slow down. I really think there's going to be a lot of possessions where a B doesn't cross half court. You know, I really think that they're going to play a style and then, you know, in the half court he'll be involved. But, you know, but to me, the thing that there's, all the egos are going to be very interesting because again, you've already dealt with the, the Mb maxi thing where they get along well, but it's in B's franchise, it's become maxi's team. Now you've got Jayden Brown, he made it clear, loves being one A and he, comes in with a bolder on his shoulder because of the way that, quite frankly, he just got dumped in his mind and I don't blame him, disrespected by the Celtics on the way out the door two years removed from winning a finals MVP and a championship there. You know, but if he comes in with the priority of like this revenge tour, how does that work with all these other, and we haven't even mentioned BJ Edge, come by the way. How, how many, I don't even know if I care about what NB does the first five months of the season. I mean, I obviously know that you have to get some reps with them, but I honestly like, I don't care. I don't care what NB looks like in November, December, January, February. I like, he's out. He's, he's, they need them for really important games in the playoffs. Like, we'll see it in, we'll see it in the spring. Like, seriously, like, I, obviously, that's not the way it's going to go. They, in B, will be excited to play. I mean, as far as I know, he's healthy. You know, they'll want it, you know, it just manage all of that and try to get some sort of rhythm. But that's the thing. I don't care how LeBron plays. I don't care how NB plays till we get to April. That's very Darryl Mory of you just thinking that you can kind of manage your way through the regular season and microwave chemistry when the playoffs roll around. That worked out great for a couple of years ago. Well, that's what I'm saying. I think this whole situation is outrageous. It's outrageous. It's unprecedented, but so is LeBron. Would you consider Tyree's Maxi and Alpha? Yeah. He's the best player on their team. He's Edgecomma is Edgecomma and Alpha. I mean, at heart, not the way he plays an emerging one. Yeah. Okay. And be sure as Hell is, Jalen Brown sure as hell is LeBron is one of the Supreme Alphas. The idea of having five Alphas is preposterous. And then you think about the idea. That's why Nick Nurse. Then you think about the idea of having four guys who thrive playing in transition. Like, I think Jalen, Edgecom, LeBron, and Maxi all right in the top 15 in transition scoring last year. I want to wear a bead rank. I'm at playing with the most plotting. One of the most plotting centers. It's outrageous. You know, I was looking at Dean Oliver, our colleague at ESPN. He tweeted out the usage rates of those five guys last season. I don't add them to 100. I know that I'm aware that they all were not together. But they're combined usage rates last year. We're 142 out of 100. And one of the things that the Celtics felt about Jalen Brown was his style of play was way too much. My turn his turn. So I'm saying this whole thing is out. I mean, like, I'm not saying this in like a critical way. I'm saying this in a fascinated way. You can't have my turn his turn. Well, now it's his turn. Been his, like, there's got to be again, again, that's a challenge for Nick Nurse. There's got to be chemistry developed. There's got to be a cohesive, you know, system style put in place. And again, I do think a lot of it is on Jalen Brown not to have them in touted that I have to be one A. A lot of it's on in B to understand that the style is not going to be built around him because he's the exception. I mean, he understands that he's a smart player. Okay. To embrace them. There's a difference between understanding and embracing. And then a lot of it's on LeBron to shift into first and foremost, the facilitator. And he's one of the best pastors and one of the best basketball brains. And this should lead to something that's not capable of doing. Well, it took LeBron, Luca, and Austin Reeves all calendar year. Would you say that's fair, McMahon? It took him a calendar year to figure it out. And they had one spectacular month. And that was the month when it became very clear, the role definition where LeBron was a distant third. And he was awesome in that role, like the efficiency was all the same time. You can't. It doesn't matter if in B's playing great in December. He's got to play. You've got to develop, especially on the team like this. And B can't be in and out of the lineup because he is such a big piece. But he's going to be. He's going to be. No, of course he's going to. I'm with you. I understand that. I'm not disagreeing with you. But when LeBron says I want to bring a championship to Philadelphia, okay, find the expectations are there. So you're saying against everything that we know about the recent NBA history is that you got to have some continuity. You can't have players be in and out of the lineup. And then expect to turn it on magically for April, May and June. It's it's not just outrageous. They're going. They're bucking history with the the audacity of the attempt here. Like that's what that's what is exciting to me about this is just to share audacity of Joel and bead is an availability issue. Where's Jalen Brown fitting in this? Tyrese Maxie is the guy actually don't worry about because I think he can play off the ball. He's one of the best off the ball scores in the league. I got no problem with that. And we can talk about these guys being scores and transition. Who's going to get stops? Who's going to sacrifice and say, you know what? I can get on in this break, but I need to get down here and get this rebound because of Joel and bead is out there. There's no guarantee that he's going to be able to cover all the space like from a basketball standpoint. This is all very fascinating to me. That's why I point at Nick Nurse. How is he going to handle this? You know, I do think of all the teams I've compared to. It's most comparable to the 2003 four Lakers where Kobe and Shaq were there. Devon George, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, that group. And they brought in Gary Payton, Karl Malone. By the way, do you know? I went back and looked. You could have taken enormous sums of money off of me. Do you know that Horace Grant was on that team? Wow. Horace Grant, Acid Green. They were, they were. Did you know Byron Russell was on that team? So like, I mean, you want to talk about, because you know, because now they're bringing in Kentavius called hope and who knows what else. And so I went, I went and looked. So Shaq had like a calf injury that year or something. And I think Kobe had like ankle issues, but Kobe played 65 games. Shaq played 67. Payton played all 82. Wow. You know, at age 35, Karl Malone played 42 at age 40. That he had a knee is knee really bad. They were 18 and one before he heard his knee. Like that thing, that's what people forget. That train was actually rolling. And then Karl heard his knee. Like you will never hear me vouch for Karl Malone in any way, shape or form for a bunch of reasons. But that team was rolling until he got hurt. And then when he got hurt, that's when everything started to pile up, you know, Kobe's court dates. I think Kobe was coming off of knee surgery that off season, which kind of started all of this other stuff. You know what I mean? So that's, you know, just to kind of close the loop. But yeah, a lot of injuries and what happened? They managed to get to the finals. And then they, I was gonna say they still went to the finals. They didn't have a good showing when they got there, but they got to the finals. Did you remember that Byron Russell played, I said, Byron is Brian Russell, right? I always get that wrong. Brian Russell. Yes. Would you believe, would you believe me if I told you he played 72 games for that team? I'm, I'm looking at it now. So I believe you, but I did not remember. Would you believe it if I said, if I said Stanislav Medvedenko started 38 games for that team? I do, I do remember that part. So anyway, I will just tell you, by the way, do you want to hear the story about how Derek Fisher almost sent me to the hospital? Yes. Uh, I guess this is so five. Get your money, right? More who've collected podcast after this. The calves. That was the bronze rookie season. My first year on the beat. The calves played the Lakers twice in the preseason. Once in LA on national television, major game, LeBron versus Kobe on national television, I think Kobe heard his ankle. And then they played them a few days later in Bakersfield, California on a Sunday night. And this was different times back then guys, the starters played in the preseason games. And in Bakersfield, California, and this is also a different time. The media sat on the, on the, on the, on the baseline, you know, on this, on the court. So my only time I've ever been in Bakersfield, there's a play in the first half. Derek Fisher, I guess trying to save a ball going out of bounds comes flying into press row and comes over the table and his shoe absolutely wallops me right in the eye, like bam, knocks my chair over and I go down. I don't remember if I hit my head on the floor, but I was literally woozy like for 10 minutes. Like I probably needed medical attention. I got knocked on the floor. Mike Brezhnehan, who's now on Spectrum Sports, he was there covering for the LA times. He helped me up, dusted me off, you know, and I was like, woozy like I, like the lights were going. I had no idea what was happening. I just remember that that was the night. It was like the second to last preseason game. And that was the night what Paul Silas said, screw it. We don't have any point cards. LeBron's going to play point cards. So it's kind of like a minor significant story that they just decide LeBron's going to be point card. And I, I just remember sitting there like the room was literally spinning. I was just dizzy from getting walloped in the head by Derek Fisher. And like you're in Bakersfield, California. Shack is there. Carl Malone is there. Gary Peyton, Kobe. I don't think Kobe played in that game because I think he turned his ankle. against the, against the Caz couple days prior, but you know, all these, you know, apparently Horace Grant was probably there. I have no recollection of it. Maybe that's what it was when the, I was, I got, as I used to say in the old days then, when you first said, did any players laugh? No, I don't remember. I mean, I was hanging on for dear life. I had no idea was, you got smacked in the face with a ball. The late, great Robert trail. That's what I thought. Yeah. You had some tough times in those baseline seeds. I, on the West Coast, like, you know, I, I shed, I shed blood in those, in those old barns in Seattle and Bakersfield. No, I didn't actually shed blood. Wendy, when you said, I got walloped by Derek Fisher. I'm glad the story ended up here, rather than where my mind took me to initially. Yes, you don't stretch me 30 minutes. I was all going to say, you don't, you don't strike me as one of those types. All right. All right. So our colleague, Marcus Thompson, the second from the athletic, did something very enterprising over the weekend. He went all the way out from his home in Oakland to North Little Rock, Arkansas, where Moses Moody was having a youth camp and Steph Curry was a part of it, which by the way, how cool is that? The Steph Curry went out to Arkansas. I don't know. Maybe it doesn't every year. I just don't remember, but I think it's pretty cool that Steph Curry would take some time out and go all the way to Arkansas to go to his teammates, youth camp. And how cool is it that you, if you're a kid in a, in a, in Little Rock, you could go to a camp and have, and have Steph Curry be there. That's pretty cool. He got a, he got an interview with Steph about LeBron's choice. Obviously the Warriors were one of the possible places. And I want to commend Steph Curry. I think Steph Curry is a quintessential superstar in every way. And I think his interview that he gave to Marcus Thompson was a really excellent, grounded, level headed viewpoint of the situation. And here's some of the quotes that he said, in regards to possibly the Bronx coming to the Warriors, he said, that's why you don't envision anything until it happens. There's lots of moving parts, which of course was true. And in talking about how this leaves the Warriors, the Warriors have not made many changes to their roster. Probably the biggest thing is they drafted Yexel Lennonborg, who was awesome in, in, in, summer league, was in the MVP of summer leagues. Like that's something to get excited about. But, you know, it's certainly not getting people who want the Warriors to like get back to the finals that much. And he just said that, you know, keeping this thing together, as in this, this Warriors team. And you know that Jimmy Butler got hurt and Moses Moody got hurt and the whole calculus of everything changes. How do you get through their absence and still say at a certain level? And then how does that go into this year? So I'm a realist on that, which is his way of saying, like, I know there's not a lot of excitement around this team. Nobody thinks that we're going to win. And that's just the reality. And then I think this is two more things I think from this I want to point out. He said, when he's talking about his hopes for the season, he said, you hope that both players Butler and Moody come back healthy, and that we can play at a level that keeps us relevant and competitive. This is where the Warriors are, which stuff's in there. They're in a fight to stay relevant. Forget about championship. Like, by the way, this is he's being real here. I'm not I'm I'm I'm applauding this. And then the one thing that he didn't say that I that I want to point out, you know, Marcus literally wrote the book on Steph Curry. I want to quote Marcus here, not Steph. I want to be very clear here. Marcus is not he is not without knowledge of the situation. Okay. He's one of the best NBA writers. We got going. He wants to win. He wants the best team. The Warriors can assemble around him. He wants a chance a real chance for a deep playoff run. The longer it takes for him to sign a contract extension, the more you can bet Curry's using potential free agency as a tool to keep the Warriors pushing towards that end. Now, that is interesting, McMahon, because Steph expressed at the end of the season that he was ready to say he was not ready to call it in. Now, he can't sign a contract extension until the end of August. It's not like this is something that you know that he's like delaying it today. And maybe he'll sign the contract extension on August 29th. But for Marcus to bring this up, I think it's something that we should pay attention to. Steph can be a free agent after this upcoming season. If he wants, he's 38 years old, but I just want to point that out. Yeah. And listen, do 62.6 million dollars this year that makes him one of the highest paid players in the league, you know, is an extension at or more than that number. If it is, it's a lifetime achievement award, because the Warriors aren't going to be winning with Steph Curry making 60 plus million dollars a year. That's, you know, he's still planning off the high level, but there's, you know, there's not going to be and quite frankly, the idea that the Warriors are going or even a move, even a big move away from being a contender, it's not an idea that's based in reality. The reality is they won a 910 playing game last year and celebrated like it was a monumental accomplishment. And that was a recognition by Steve Kerr, who strongly considered retired before coming back by Steph Curry, by Dremond Green, that they're not going to have more trips to the mountaintop. They've got to savor the accomplishments, you know, the moments that they do have, they celebrated a not even a clinch and a playoff worth a 910 win. The right, earning them the right to play another play in game in which they got beat and didn't make the playoffs, but they celebrated that win. It was a hell of a comeback. It was great theater. It was his entertaining as a 910 playing game could possibly be, but their celebration there told you everything you need to know about the state of the Warriors with Steph Curry at 38 years old, even though he's still. Yeah, we can argue, a top 15 player or so in the NBA. The question becomes, like, when they've been covering this, we've gone up and covered this week a long time. Team championship windows in today's NBA. Don't stay open this long. Like, if you started, if you even started at 2013, when they lost in the second round of San Antonio, and you could see that they were coming, right? Like, and you saw Dremond Green, you could see that Steph and Clay Thompson, and they were coming. Mark Jackson was still coaching the team. If you start there and you ended in 2013, 2023, when they lose in the second round to LeBron and Anthony Davison and those Lakers in that championship reign, that's a 10 year window. I need people to understand that never happens in today's NBA, like LeBron leaves after four years at a place, like the Kobe Bryant back end of the Lakers, went to the finals in 08 and by 2011, they were getting swept in the second round. Like, these things don't happen often. So the question I have for you guys is Joe Laker is going to be an easy target for this because he's, to me, he says dumb. Right? But how much of this dude of franchise does the franchise all step in Curry at this stage because he's playing at a top 10 top 15 level and he's making this amount of money? How much do they owe him to continue to try to put out something? Or is he at the dark and Kobe stage where, hey man, you just gonna sell the arena out and you just gonna have to ride with it? Like, are there conversations that need to be had? But again, owe him, like owe him what to find a magic wand because there's, I just don't think there's a realistic path for the Warriors to put together a team around him. This is going to have a chance to contend for championship. Well, we didn't think that there was a real estate path for Philly, either. I mean, you know, they have some assets and they're, you know, look, they tried for Yannis couldn't get him. They tried for Jaylen Brown couldn't get him. Tried for Anthony Davis couldn't get him. Tried for LeBron couldn't get him. But they got a stop. I think they would have, I mean, I think they had interest. The Warriors, the Wizard shut it down. All right. Well, Anthony Davis ain't making them a contender. LeBron James wasn't going to make them a contender. No, I, I'm just saying though, I don't think that they're not going to keep trying, you know, I mean, that's the implication here. If they don't keep trying, that stuff may just hold back on it. And what's, where's stuff going to go? And listen, if Steph wants to, for example, well, I mean, where was LeBron going to go? That's what we were saying a year ago. I know. But like, if if Steph wants to go, like Charlotte is obviously his hometown, his dance, I don't want to entertain this. I'm just saying because this will get aggregated. I'm not looking for that. I'm just, it's a hypothetical. But like, if you He wants to do something like that fine. I think there's, I think there is great honor. And one number one, like Steph's legacy secure, I don't care if he never wins another game in his life. Same with that. I do think there is great honor in a legend of Steph's caliber going from the starting blocks to the finish line with one thing. Yeah. Does anybody, I mean, I know some people do, but is anybody like criticize Kobe's last four years and the Lakers having no chance to win anything? No, people, people try to criticize that kind that's $50 million dollar contract, which now looks like, you know what I mean, like ridiculous, but we were saying back then. But I'm with you on this one, Timmy. There is great honor in that. But the problem is Joe Lake of knows that too. Like this whole two timeline garbage that they were trying to pull off. Like that's where all of this sort of stems from is we're trying to plan ahead of Steph and Curry as opposed to, hey, man, let's see if we can maximize and make the best of this. Steph is never really threatened to go anywhere and the warriors know that and that's what they've been able to do the things that they've been doing. If Steph kicked it a completely different way, then we will be having different conversations. I think this is the first salvo of a don't take me for granted here. Like just because, you know what I mean? I don't know, man. They've never, they've always had the gas down. They, you know, go get, they had to championship team. They went and got to ran. They go get Jimmy Butler. Like, you know, they tried to get LeBron three years ago. Like, you know, Camingo Moody Wiseman. You know, right. That's the problem with the two timeline is the guys that they drafted specifically wise minute two and then Camingo at seven, which whatever you want to say about Camingo, this might get Wendy's hands dancing. But Steve Kirscher's held in think that he was a star cab or player. So to have those, you know, to have a high lottery pick and a mid lottery pick and end up with two guys who didn't make it to their, I guess, coming in tech for me to do a second contract. You know what I'm saying? Two guys who didn't live up to their draft status. That was the problem with that and the labeling of the two timelines or the issues, not necessarily the plan. Let me ask you this. So Dre Mond as we know as a free agent, he opted out of the contract because this is going to be a brand new contract. Dre Mond can get a no trade clause. Okay. If you know, in last year, like, there was a moment where Dre Mond thought that there was a chance he could trade it. Do you remember that press conference right before the deadline where he like had like a quasi goodbye? He was checking out real estate in Milwaukee. Well, listen, if the warriors are not serious about, you know, improving the team and just want to like ride out to the end of the thing, they'll give them a no trade clause, right? Just okay, okay, Dre Mond, we're not going to trade you. Let's just ride it out, right? Just give it to him. But if there's a chance, they're going to trade him. Even if it's a 0.1% chance, they ain't given it to him. And by the way, I don't think they will give it to him. Nor should they probably, unless he's willing to take like some sort of pay cut, which why would he? You know, honestly, the warriors clearly can stomach a divorce with Dre Mond? They went through a pretty messy divorce with Clay Thompson. Steph is the one. I don't think they can stomach that. And so that's where, you know, even the threat of Steph just sniffing around. They can't stomach looking. They can't stomach look like that. And in the PR battle of warriors or Steph, Steph is not going to say the wrong thing publicly or intimate the wrong thing publicly. It's all going to be on the franchise to quote, unquote, do right by him. But what does doing right by Steph Curry mean at this stage? That is the question that we all kind of have at this point. Because like you said, Wendy, this is the last year of his contact. Free agency, as we know it, does not exist in the NBA. Free agency is dead. Unless you are a mid level player, a player of Steph Curry's caliber, who can command $60 million or whatever it is, is not going to hit free agency. So what happens to prevent said player from hitting free agency? It's one of two things. Player resigns or player gets moved. Listen, he may sign. I think he is indicated he wants to go for two years, play till 40. He can get he can get $136 million. That deal may happen on August 29th. I am not saying that it will not. I am just saying to you what Marcus Thompson put in there. Well, and the other thing is we just saw a guy who made $53 million last year signed for the minimum because he just want to go wherever he want to go and didn't want that 100% accurate. I mean, he didn't what's what's not what he didn't make 53 last year. He didn't sell the minimum. He he probably could have come to some terms of somewhere else. But he he was if he had made a priority to get more money. That's what I'm saying. And like LeBron, Steph has made more than a half billion dollars just in the NBA salary. And I don't know who knows how much off the floor. You know, just signed a deal. I forget I forgot what shoe company it was, but just I'm sure there's a lot of money in that one leaning. There you go, leaning. You know, what it could Steph reach a point where he decides, you know what? I want to just pick a destination too. I don't know. I would bet against it, but I'm just renting to Marcus Thompson who knows Steph better than anybody in the media. Yes, Steph's obviously got a lot deeper roots in the Bay than LeBron did in LA. That's true. More hoop collective podcast after this. Okay, I'm going to go over some of these teams that are now dealing with post LeBron chase life. Start with the calves. Caves sign Mario, his Zonia on Sunday. Zonia, 2015 lottery picks been playing for the last four years in Madrid. Got him for less than three million bucks, six, eight. Talked to some of scouts I know who live in Europe and they said definitely an NBA rotation player at this point definitely got better, but he doesn't have the way he was been playing for Madrid was not the way an NBA role player would play. You know, he stops the ball. So I'm sure he understands to change it. There was some sort of belief that just because the calves signed Kazonia that they wouldn't continue to try to get John to come in. I don't think that's true. I think they'll see his own as a friend rotation player. I think. Does Kaminga stop the ball once or twice? You guys are brutal. I asked a question. I'm not making it. I'm not making it personal. It's not about Kaminga the player. It's about the way the league, the way the fans react to Kaminga. That's what gets on my nerves. The calves have to deal with Harden and once they deal with Harden we'll see if they have much money they have under the aprons. They can make trades. They could trade Dennis Schroeder. There's trades that exist out there trade concepts where they could trade Schroeder and save some money open up their six million dollar taxpayer mid-level. They could trade Max Struse all the way off their team and maybe open up the full mid-level. I would just keep Max Struse. Right. I mean two-way wing. I realize he's not a hollow famer but he makes threes and he plays hard on defense. Always in the right spot. He's not a shutdown defender but who who is who are you getting to shut down defend it? So I think the calves so you know they're they're sniffing around seeing what they can do. I think they I think you know the Kaminga is going to be faced with a situation where he may have to decide about taking a one-year contract and exception contract versus waiting for a sign-in trade but whatever things change things happen. Well if he's in that situation I think there's another team that missed out on the brawn that might make more sense for him but so by saying a team that lost out on the brawn you're not talking about the lakers then. No the Timwolves have a glaring need of power for it. I don't know that they have any interest in Kaminga. I just know that they have to consider all potential solutions to fill their need of power for it and look they knew they knew they created this need with a maneuvering that they did to cut money and get Lamella Ball and somebody with the wolves told me you know aff that trade they're like yeah we went from 48 minutes foul-standing power forward blade and none you know and you can argue outstanding but they had the rotation of of nausea or of a Julius Randall and of nausea trade and now like I think if the season started tomorrow you've got Jane McDaniel's starting at the four and you're playing three guards with you know ask and go bear to probably lead the league and rebounds. All right well that's all well and good but they are four million dollars below the hard cap and already 15 million dollars over the luxury tax. It's going to have to be like they've got they've got the minimum to try to fill it with like let's just be clear. I mean the one thing they could do they you know if they were willing to trade Dante Deven-Chenzo they could probably get a power forward for that price number because he's going to miss the year or big punk almost the year with the Achilles, they don't want to trade him, but well, and they don't have, they don't have picks to trade. I shouldn't say picks. They don't have first round picks to trade. Let me see what Bobby says that they have to trade. They have, first off, they do have one roster spot, I guess. Yeah. They have no tradeable firsts, and they have, oh my god, I don't even know what they have, and he's, you know what, I think they've got, they have two tradeable seconds. That's it. You know, and, and look, I like Jaden McDaniel's a lot. A big part of his values that he's an elite on ball defender. So, you know, you don't want him playing power forward defensively. He also, in part because he's a lot of times guard the guy who's the primary perimeter weapon. He only averaged 4.2 rebounds per gain last year. You know, ants can have to rebound, the mellows can have to rebound, and again, go bear might have to lead the lead in rebounds. What about the Miami Heat Vince? They miss out on LeBron, and now they're sitting there with a couple of roster spots. Right now, they are $1.9 million below the luxury tax, which is, you know, something for them, but they're hardcapped at the first apron. So, while they're going to the tax, they've got $10.5 million to spend. They've got $9 million they can spend of their mid-level. They've got the $5.5 million dollar buy annual. That all sounds good. They've got a $5.5 million trade exception. That's actually good stuff to fill out your roster. But like I said, they only got $10.5 million because of the way they did the honest trade, they're hardcapped. So, they can go above the minimum, but not that much far above the minimum. It's about fit to me. And when you look at that team, the one thing we talked about with Miami is shooting. Like they need shooting around Yannis and Bam and Andrew Wiggins. Like, from an athletics standpoint, he can certainly fit. But we've all said it, not the strongest rebounder, not a great shooter, not someone who's going to tilt the axis of the floor on offense, I don't know if that's a great fit, but it gets to the point where he's going to have to just pick a spot and take a lower salary than clearly than he thought he was going to command in this market. That's always a danger when you go into your unrestricted year or you take the qualifying offer, which is why nobody does it. Like you wind up playing and became a musical chairs and there's no one there. As you said, they need more shooting. And then look, Tim Hardaway Jr. was a great addition for them. He's a volume shooter that I think fits well, bringing back Fontecchio, I thought was good. Bobby Portis does give them some shooting, but they also like, they're big as far as their fives are Portis and Bam and Bam's five-ish. Portis is five-ish. And then they're going anymore. You know, you have heard stuff about Clay Thompson from the, you know, he'd be. You're saying you don't think Clay is getting bought out. I don't say that. I just said to me like, you know, the maps aren't going to. I don't think they buy them out as a charitable endeavor, you know, like there's got to be something in it for them, you know. But then if that's a deal, I would think it's probably a minimum in Miami. Well, it depends. They have money to spend. I mean, Demarder Rosen's another guy because Pat Riley went on Dead and Levertard's show and said we need another playmaker. Of course, he thought it was going to be LeBron. Yeah. I do think the heat thought they had a great chance at him. I mean, Derosen's the opposite of spacing, though. Yeah. I know. You're right. I mean, when you go back and listen, again, everything's time and place, but Pat Riley thought he was getting LeBron. When he went on that Dead and Levertard show, I mean. But when he said they got to land the other plane. Yeah. He thought he was getting LeBron. And. I wonder what happened. I wonder what changed. What flipped? What changed? Well, I don't think he was told he was getting him. I just think he was very optimistic and look, Vince, you know, as time went on, I thought Miami was going to be the place. I got to the place, you know, where I thought it was something more than 50% was, you know, I thought it was going to be Miami. I was surprised when it was Philly. So, I mean, you know, Rich Paul has said he's on the record of saying I thought for a long time, he thought it was going to be Miami. I think Pat Riley for a long time thought it was going to be Miami too. So, Bradley Beale's out there. I saw some list of, you know, targets for them. You know, Beale's health is obviously always a concern, but Beale, I could see Beale being a guy who makes sense for them. He's wanted to play in Miami for a long time. There's a lot of people who want to play in Miami for a long time. He's definitely high on that list. I think Vince is on that list. I just like to spend May and June in nice weather areas. Now we're just going to have to be on your cell. It's the best time of Miami. It's November and December because it's before the snowbirds come and the weather is not as hot. The humidity leaves a little bit. That is the time to be in Miami. You know, you first see the Canadians. The folks from Montreal show up first. Once they show up, there's no stop on the snowbirds, but until that happens, that's the glory. That's the real time to be down there, Vince. That's when you want. You should try to angle for an early season and early season trip down there to do a story on the heat. There's never a bad time. There's never a bad time to go spend a few days in Miami windy. Okay, welcome back to the hoop collective. So Spencer Jones offer sheet with the Oklahoma City Thunder two years and 12 million was matched by the Denver Nuggets shortly after we recorded this segment. So let's just all pretend that we all know in this segment that it was matched, right? McMahon, we're fine with that, right? We can all do that together. We can agree to that as pod friends. Just change all the it would to it did. Okay, sounds good. Here you go. So the Nuggets are in a situation with Spencer Jones. By the time this podcast comes out, I think it'll probably have been established. But over the weekend, the Oklahoma City Thunder signed Spencer Jones to offer sheet $6 million a year. And Spencer Jones is a quality rotation wing. Nice pickup for Oklahoma City or Denver matches. That's fine. I think what this just highlights, the reason Oklahoma City did this offer sheet was was because of how tight of a spot Denver is in. And Denver has gone through this postseason. They didn't resign some of their free agents, including Tim Hardaway. But they are really in some tight spot here with their accounting. And it's for a couple of reasons. One, it's because the Aaron Gordon extension that they signed is kicking in. Two, it's that a couple of years ago when Jamal Murray got a contract extension. They gave him the max, you know, he was coming off some injuries in a little bit of a down season and they gave him the max, which was, you know, a little bit surprising. And they extended Christian Brown last year at 100 million. So even if they don't do it. And they extended, they extended Zeknaz. You remember that deal? That's true. And that's that's again, I'm sorry. That deals a killer. He's on a rotation player. Right. And so they're facing, they have only paid a total of $50 million in tax in the last 23 years, 50 million total. Wow. And right now, they're 21 million over the luxury tax. They are $14 million into the second apron. If Peyton Watson picks up his qualifying offer. And if they match on Jones, they're going to be even further into the second apron. And they're a peer luxury tax team. And Bobby, Bobby says their current tax penalty is 36.4 million. With Spencer Jones, if they pick that up, that's $6 million salary. It goes to 68.6 million. So basically, a $32 million tax hit. And this is, you know, their messaging has been because there was a lot of, kind of, I would say, the conventional wisdom around the league was, hey, if they're going to keep Peyton Watson, they're going to either dump Christian Brown, which I think that was going to be very difficult to do, or Cam Johnson, which would have been much easier. Cam being in the last year of his contract at a lower number. But then the messaging from the negis says, we don't, we don't do that. We're free to spend. Well, how free are you? That's what, that's kind of the bluff that Sam Presti pulled. You know, just to me, almost feels eerily similar in different mechanics, to the Milwaukee Bucks Post Championship. Like, you wind up rewarding your guys who were there. Their numbers keep going up. And it's not commiserate to the cap. Like, oh, it's one contract. It's because it's misery to the cap, but not five contracts are commiserate to the cap. Chris Millerton gets a max duality gets a max. Everybody gets extended off of the championship in trying to keep that team, the bones of that team together. And you keep putting good money after bad. And now, they're in a position where is this the first round team in the Western Conference, even if they keep, they keep everybody. It was last year. And so I'm saying, you have the best player in the world, or at least in the conversation of still being the best player in the world. And you are paying luxury tax money. And you don't have any designs on getting to the Oklahoma City San Antonio echelon of contention in the West. That feels like you're in no man's land. Well, this goes back to what you're talking about before Vince, the tough difficulty of managing a era of competition. And it's especially difficult when you manage it with a team that has in the past been adverse to paying the tax. Now they've been headed, I mean, they're paying the tax this year. And they've been headed towards this number for a while. They've known that this was going to be the year where it really bites. They knew what they, you know, they knew what they were getting into when they signed those contracts. But they didn't necessarily know that they were going to be coming off of a year where they were at a first round exit. And they didn't know that Nikola Yokich was going to head towards unrestricted free agency next year. Now he is said he's going to be a nugget. I'm not implying that he's not. But until he signs, he hasn't signed. Well, and why is he, why did he say he's waiting to sign his extension? Because he wants more money on the back end. And if you want to believe that, I guess you can. Well, but yeah, I let's again, let's take him to his word. Him wanting more money on the back end. I mean, I don't have the numbers of money, but he's going to be making into the 60s, the 70s, well into his 30s. And it's just going to be, I mean, extremely difficult. Well, you're going to pay him. You're going to, right. You're going to pay him. Just like stuff. You're going to pay if Steph's wants, you know, two years at 70 million or whatever it's going to be, you're going to give it to him. Right. And just like, okay, so he will pay Shay is as long as Shay's playing an MVP level. They'll they'll pay him without blanking when, you know, just like they did on the last extension, just like they'll do on the next extension. My point is though, when you have a guy making that kind of money, and especially the O.K.C. is an exception, because O.K.C. did it with a stock pile of picks in their possession, where's, and part of their stock pile of picks are dimper picks, by the way. Divers on the most teams in the situation are on the other side where they're down picks because of what they've tried to do to, you know, cash in on a window that haven't a player at that level. So if I want to go back to what Vince said against Vince talked earlier about the window with the Golden State Warriors and how you just can't have the window open forever. I think like if you look at the Milwaukee bucks, if you go back and look in 2018, 19, they won 60 games and made to the conference finals. If you go to take it through 2024, 25, you look at these 60 wins season, 56 wins season, 46 and 26, and one of the COVID shortened years, 51 wins, 58 wins, 49 wins, 48 wins, like they're competing every year while they're chewing up their resources, right? And eventually they ran out. Look at how big the nuggets window has been. You go back and look, 2018, 19, that was their first 50 wins season under Yokech year after year, 46, 47, 48, 53, 57, 50, 54, they're, they're holding on the window, they're, they're, they're trading their first round picks and, you know, pushing off contracts and robbing Peter to pay Paul, like it's, they're in the same zone. We don't know when the error is, oh, we don't know the errors open to us two years after the fact that you look at the team, you're like, wait, you, you guys haven't gotten out of the first round in two years, but you still look like the team that won a championship. The problem with the salary structure is, and not sending a Yokech or step isn't worth what they're going to get paid. But the way that the salary structure works in the NBA is you are underpaid at the absolute peak of your career. And then when you start getting the balloon payments on the back end, you're no longer that supersized version of yourself. That can be the best player obviously on the championship team or take up that much of the salary cap. So, you, so finding the balance, I don't know if there is a balance for franchises because the rules make it so you're going to make the most money in your career as you are starting to wind down, as you are no longer a sure-cut MVP type of guy. I don't know how teams do that anymore. Well, everything is like, yes, you need one of those guys to have a chance to win a championship. And Joker is still without question one of those guys. Like if we're talking about the best players in the league, there's no argument to put him any lower than third. And they're still an argument to put him at number one. So, but you also need depth. And it is extremely difficult to do both. Extremely difficult to be watched. And we love parity though, Adam Silver. We love parity. So a lot deeper than Spencer Jones, but he certainly was a tipping point. All right, well, man, the college tour is over. Where are we at? Broke. And I haven't even had to start making tuition payments for this. No, we've got a, there's the admissions process to play out, but we've got a, a put it in pencil final four. I guess like if you're filling your brackets, that we've got that final four is Duke in there. Duke is not in there. Thank God. Duke is not in their Carolina is. I respect it. The Carolina basketball museum was awesome. Danny Greens got some a, it's like Danny Greens got it. Danny Green has had amazing basketball life. Yes. When, when we were at the finals and shumps up there with his ring and perks up there with his ring. And did Vince, did you see the necklace or three of them? Thanks. The tops of the rings. I actually think they're replicas. I don't think they were the actual tops, but he had the replica tops of his three rings. Lakers ring, raptors ring, spurs ring. And he had them on a necklace. And it was just beautifully designed. And he was just wearing his three ring, the ring tops on his chest. It was so wheat. So we also, Danny told me that it's expensive as hell. I mean, Danny celebrates his titles. I don't blame them. He bought a replica. You can, but if you're a champion, you can buy a replica, Larry O'Brien trophy. And I don't mean one that's made out of plastic. I mean, the actual thing. And it's a, it ain't cheap. And he's got one. Hey, can you imagine coming over to someone? So I actually think he's actually got more than one, but I don't want to, you know, put him on blast. We respect Danny Green also want a championship of Carolina. Absolutely. We got Danny Green's alma mater, Chris Paul's alma mater. I'll say the Marcus Aldridge's alma mater and Anthony Edwards alma mater, not shrink. I just agree, but that's okay. I heard Vince that the McMahon family loved Georgia. Georgia, I honestly was pleasantly surprised by how cool the other town, Athens, Georgia is. I'll say, did you have low expectations? No, I just, it surprised me just the, the, the vibe in the, like the city, especially like the, the downtown area right there on campus. I thought it was, it didn't happen. I heard Athens is a good time, but especially, you know, you go on a couch football Saturday. I've heard some good things about, you know, you doing that sickam wolf wolf stuff. I, at least he's a Georgia, he's a Georgia dad already. Look at this. Oh goodness. Oh, you know what? Go hang out in Chapel Hill. If your boy and Michael Malone, I didn't hit Michael Malone up. I did it. Like I said, the Carolina basketball museum. I'm just telling you, if you're in Chapel Hill, it's free and it's awesome. Like they've got all kinds of, from like the 1920s on, all kinds of unbelievably cool Carolina historical memorabilia in there. This trip, man, he's, this is a Texan talking about the deep south. I guess North Carolina is out, North China is not the deep south. It's the, it's the south, but ain't the deep south. I would just say this is as long as there's no picture of a timeout in the Carolina basketball museum. We'll do just fine now. All right. All right. Shout out to C.Web. All right. Thank you very much for putting us together. All of our producers and Jackson leading the way. Thank you to Vince, thank you to McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching the hoop collective. We'll talk to you later this week. Obviously goes.