A Time to Dream ... And a Time to Wait

Episode 22, Carrie Shales with Debs Kephid, a time to dream and a time to wait. I remember when I was a teenager probably. I said to her, "I will go to any of you or do anything for you, but don't let my life be boring. I don't want to just get up and go to work every day. I want to do something for you that I can see that you're in. And also let me always know that you're with me. And I feel like in this time, like God stripped me of those conditions and gave me the opportunity to be like all out. As he has me, the book I felt like my life went into slow motion and I felt in my spirit this is it. And I knew in that moment if I took that book it was going to change my life. I couldn't read these stories and not weep and just be like, "I want to do something like that. I want God, I want you to use me like that." But at the same time, all those fears I had before, like, "What if I'm not good enough? Like, what if I don't have the right skills? What if they don't want me? Am I brave enough?" Yeah, so I went on the application page a few times and then I picked over it because I was like, "Well, I don't think I can do this." Well, hello, welcome back to Cari Shares. My name is Catherine Grimes. I'm your host and it is always an amazing pleasure to be with you and to have you listening in and sharing with us here as we talk together about beautiful, inspiring stories of faith from women all across the world. And I'm really thrilled that we're running towards the end of series one now, actually. We launched back in September last year and stay tuned because we will release season two in October. 2025 is the plant. There you go. But today we are privileged to have the beautiful Deps, Cafford. Hello, Deps. Hello. Thank you for being here and willing to share your stories. So, Deps is a pediatric nurse for nearly 13 years. She's passionate about travelling and she's most recently returned from Morocco. That's how exciting. She loves to spend time with her family and friends and at 34, she's always on the lookout for fresh adventures. So, Deps, you've just got back from Morocco. My goodness, more jet-setting. Yeah. You're doing in Morocco. We went travelling, went to meet my boyfriend's friends who lived in South Africa. So, we did some travelling around Morocco together. Amazing. And what was the highlight of Morocco? Just a scenery. I think I expected Morocco to be all desert. But it was so varied where we drove from the top of Morocco. All the way down, we saw green mountains, wildflowers. And then we saw desert, we saw valleys with palm trees. Wow. Yeah. It was beautiful. Really, really beautiful. It's a real kaleidoscope of landscape. How gorgeous. That sounds beautiful. So, Deps, we start very often with carry shells at the beginning by looking at backgrounds and are charted. So, can you take us back to your charted and can you set the scene? What was it like growing up in your family? Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's great. I have two older brothers, a young sister, who I would say amongst my colleagues is friends. My parents are Christians and they have faithfully followed the Lord for my whole life and taught us to know the Lord and to walk in His ways. And I'm totally grateful for that as well as their love and care and wisdom. Yeah, it's been great growing up in a bigger family. Yeah, it's been 104. Must have been lots of fun. Did you fight with your siblings as children? I think we did when we were younger, but we're going to go on to talk about something else in a little while. And that was a big turnaround for us. And I think when you think you might lose one of them, you don't fight anymore. Because the small stuff don't matter anymore. And then from that moment became really great friends. Yes, yes. How amazing. And we are going to talk about exactly that next. So, I know because you gave me a sneak preview that something painful and yeah, amazing happened when you were just 10. And one of your brothers was 12. So, do you tell us about that? What happened and how did it shape your faith and your setup as a family? So, yeah, well, when I was 10, my brother was 12. My parents kept taking you back and forth to the doctors. He was having trouble breathing and trouble swallowing. And the doctors thought it was asthma. The medication didn't really make it any better. My parents took him to multiple different doctors. And we still have this problem. He'd otherwise been fit and well. So it kind of came out of nowhere. And then one day he came home from school and he just couldn't breathe. And my dad took one look inside his mouth and saw his throat. His throat was completely swallowing. So, rushing straight back to the doctor, the doctor took one look at him, sent him straight to the hospital. And within two days, my brother was admitted to intensive care. My brother didn't have asthma. He had cancer. Wow. Within those three days, we were sat in a room with my parents and my siblings and the doctors told us that my brother was probably going to die. So, Dubs, that must have been tremendously difficult. I mean, if your parents are imagining that their son has asthma and being told, in fact, it's cancer. I mean, that's a parent's worst nightmare, isn't it? So, how did things progress for you from that point as family? The day that my brother was taking the hospital with my dad, or remember my mum taking me and my sister into our lounge, and we all kneeled on the floor and we prayed. And I think I'm so grateful for parents that modeled that whatever life circumstances we tend to go to, we pray. And it was one of those situations where, you know, sometimes your history, somebody's got cancer one day. They go back to the doctor's and next day, and it's gone. It wasn't one of those situations. My brother had to go through intensive treatment, chemotherapy. But against all odds, he was completely healed. And for me, in my faith, that showed me that God isn't a faraway God, that he didn't just come, die on the cross as if, you know, that wasn't enough. That's more than enough. But that he's still present today, and he still hears us. He still answers us. He still does miracles. He still answers our prayers. Yeah, and I just, my heart was filled with so much gratitude. I'd already had a relationship with God up until that point. I'd known God my whole life, thankfully, and for my parents. But then this, I think, just made me realize how close God is, and gave me a deeper love and appreciation for God. And from that moment, I knew I wanted to follow God the rest of my life. That's beautiful. And as you say, as well, another treasure that you'd picked out at that time was how precious life is, and obviously your family relationships. So the four of you as siblings have fused even closer together. I'm sure as a result of walking through that together. And your brother is alive and well to this day, then. Yes. And he knows your little boys, mine, if you use your gorgeous, just been the weekend with them. Wow. And it's so precious. Isn't that amazing? And I go through and deems those situations. Wow. So you talked about what a strong network of faith you had. You imbibed as a child growing up in with your parents. But we all know that actually faith is a very personal thing. And it needs to be intentional from each of us as individuals in our hearts. So tell us a little bit more about how your own faith matured as a young woman. You were 16. You attended a new wine event, new wine festival in the UK. And something very significant happened. And tell us about that, tips. Yeah. So I was volunteering as one of the kids leaders. They were teaching the children how to hear from God. And obviously they were teaching for the team as well. And there was something I probably hadn't really considered for myself before. But I was very hungry for it. I thought, yeah, if God's going to speak, I want to hear Him. And that was great. And they sent us off with a challenge to go and ask God to speak to us. Give us a word, give us a picture. And so one afternoon, I'm just somebody thing by my tent. And I'm not sure really if I'm a wake or a sleep, but I see these like series of pictures. And I don't know if they're from God or not, but write them down. And then the following week, my youth group all joined us at the same location for source of either. And there there was a one night a guy was talking about evangelism and mission. And I just was captivated. I just felt like I was hooked on every word that you were saying. And at the end, he said, if anybody feels like their heart was stirred by this message, they come forward for prayer. And I couldn't ignore the pounding in my own heart. So I went forward. And there I felt like what was calling me one day to go to Africa. And I obviously then had somebody give me a picture. And it was the same picture that I'd had for myself while I was dancing in the sun the week before. And for me, yeah. What was the picture, Debs? I don't really know what it means, but it was just a picture of a pink flower opening. And like it will be inside. And then the next picture was like a series of loads of pink flowers. And this person had the exact same picture like I've had a picture of like a field of pink flowers. And I was like, oh. So for me, that just felt like confirmation like, oh God can speak to me. I can hear from God. And yes. But then also birth this calling that I now felt like I had a life as well. Yes. I mean, that's amazing that it was so distinct and clearer on your heart that it was a sense of I want to go to Africa. And what did that feel like? I think, yeah, I felt exciting. Probably like beyond anything I could really imagine. But it felt like there's a need out there and I want to be used. I want to go choose me. And why Africa Debs? Why was it Africa that got around? No. I think maybe I'd learn about Africa at school. Geography was my favourite subject at school. And we learn about shanti towns and poverty townships. and interested me and then I think yeah with him talking about me. than talking about mission. I thought, yeah, that's what I want to do. But why Africa specifically, I don't know, but it was always Africa. But it's amazing, isn't it? Because in God's economy, nothing is ever wasted. Every experience we have, whatever it is, so even as a child, there you were reading books and pondering ideas about different areas of the world. But it was Africa that drew your gaze. And so the Wengong place that desire in your heart to be doing mission overseas. Africa was what came to your heart first. I just love that the way he weaves in all the details, all the way through. And yeah, and it's his sovereignty, isn't it? He's the central thread weaving his story. So you attended New Wine, you had this amazing dream that God had planted in you. You must have felt really ignited, really fired up. Like, come on, I want to go to Africa, I want to serve, I want to do mission overseas. But actually that didn't immediately happen, did it? What did you decide to do next as a 16 year-old? Yeah, so 16, I was thinking about my A levels and I felt like God had planted the seed that I should become pediatric nurse. So then when I've then gone to a source of Ive, where I felt like I'm being called to mission, I was like, wow, which one is it? And where I meant to be a nurse or I meant to go to a mission. And probably somebody gave me this book from source of Ive actually, I read the book soul system and Beth Redmond writes something along the lines of just because God's called you to do something, doesn't mean you're necessarily called to do it right away. And that there's season of preparation where God equips you to do the thing He's called you to do. And then it's like the penny dropped. I was like, oh, so maybe I am still meant to be a nurse. And if I trained to be a nurse, then I've got a skill to take with me to Africa. So that's what I did. I finished my A levels, I went to university, I trained to be a pediatric nurse. And yeah, I just had mission kind of on the back burner while I trained to be a nurse. But it never burned out. It was on the back burner, but it never burned out. I hate it. Was it something you'd return to in your prayer life as well as a young woman, even while you were training? Yeah, there was a few times again where missionaries had come to speak out of church. And that fire again. And I'm like, should I go? I'm I still meant to be nursing? Should I go right now? And there was a few times where, as you want specific time, where a missionary afterwards invited us for prayer. And I heard over some of the prayers he was praying for other people and they were quite specific and all of them. And then he came to me and he just leaves hands on my head and said, if you're meant to go, I'm going to tell you, he's been planted you way, you need to be right now. How beautiful, what amazing confirmation. Yeah. I love that. But it's very interesting, Devs, because it's required a few times in the conversation with you already. In a sense, we've talked about whether there's a perception that doing a job like a nurse or a job like a lawyer or a job like a construction worker, whatever it may be, is incompatible with serving overseas. But the truth is, it isn't, is it? Because God is God, whatever sphere we are in and we can be a mission, we can have a heart of mission and we can be as a missionary, his ambassador in that sphere. But I also just think it's very interesting that for your mind as a 16 year old, you were wrestling and saying, but I want to be a missionary, but I think I want to do nursing, but I'm not sure. And you know, now looking back with hindsight, I'm sure you're 34 year old self would say something different to your 16 year old self. Is that true, do you think? Well, I think God revealed it to me as I read that book, having the wisdom of somebody who'd written a book about this thing, very thing, helped me to be like, oh, God has a bigger plan. Yes. My mind can only think down one avenue, but God's plan is so much bigger. And yeah, I guess I would just go back to my 16 year old self and be like, just trust what you've heard. It might take time, but it is going to come to pass. And I think you don't know that at the time, and that's why it's faith, isn't it? Absolutely. Yes. Yes. And you know, let's delve into more of the story that God was writing for you. So you graduated as a nurse in 2012 and you took up your first paid role in the hospital down the road. But let's be honest, it wasn't everything that you had hoped for. Is that true, Depp? Would you say that there were pros and cons to this new role? Yeah, definitely. I think I trained for three years and I thought, at the end of this training, I'm going to know how to be a nurse. But the reality is you then qualify, and that's just the beginning. You've got so much to learn. And all of my colleagues even now would say, and for me, having done it for my 13 years, you're always learning. New research comes, new illnesses come as we know from the last five years. There's never, you never make it. There's always more that you can learn. There's always more things you can develop. And it took me probably four years to feel extremely like, I can do this. To feel confident enough that if I did take a break to go abroad, I could come back and still do my job. But in that time, I thought, wow, if I can't nurse here, how can I nurse in Africa where they don't have anything? But I think I didn't see what other nurses could see because at that four year mark, the senior nurses were telling me I was ready for a promotion to become a senior nurse. But in my mind, I was just still trying to get by, still learning everything I needed to learn. Mmm, amazing. So they promoted you? Well, I had a appraisal and they said, you're ready for a promotion, which was as far as to me. And they were like, is that what you want? And I was like, no, I want to kind of grow a break. I want to go volunteer in Africa. Not as a nurse at that point now. I'd convinced myself that nursing was not what I wanted to do there, but I still had a heart to go and I want to travel. And they were like, well, great, you're at a cross-race. It's a perfect time in your life. You're young, you're single, you've got no ties. It's a perfect time to go. Like I said earlier, I've got enough skills to go and come back. But also if you're already for a promotion, if that's what you want. I left that meeting being like great. I'm going to go on a career break. But God had different ideas. Tell us about that then. So I was leading worship at an event and somebody had a message for the congregation. And they're talking about like not becoming stagnant by staying where you are, but stepping out and that God will give you success. And I didn't want to hear it, but I just knew he was talking to me. And that I was meant to apply for this promotion. Oh, okay, okay. Yes, a bit of a spanner in the works of, but I just want to go to Africa. I don't want to travel wider. I don't want to go and give myself even more responsibilities at work. For sure. Yeah. But I knew that God was asking me to do that. So yeah, I applied for the promotion. And even though I was the most junior person, he applied for it. But it was grace. I was given the given operation. So nothing is wasted. Is it depth? I mean, the fact is in parallel with all this amazing development of your career, the dream that God had planted in you for mission hadn't been extinguished. And your period of preparation, as you said, was still progressing. Your career break didn't materialize then, as you have said, but something else did, which is very God shaped. Isn't it? He often does that. Tell us about how God went on to entrust you with two new ministries as a young woman. Yeah. So I, we've got this job. And then I also take over the 18 to 30s ministry of church that day when they gave me, when I felt like we gave me that message during worship was the first time I'd ever led worship. It was for a church in Ashburdenham. And then I started leading worship at our church as well. And I just saw God move so powerfully in those things. And I knew this is exactly where he wants me to be right now. And it felt like such a privilege to be able to partner with him in those things. None of those things were things I ever wanted. I never wanted to be a leader. I'm always a very happy follower. But yeah, it was just such an honor to be able to seek or move in a different way that I wouldn't have experienced if I'd not done these things. Yes. And you've said you'd rather be a follower, but it does sound like God was carving out leadership niches for you again and again and again. And obviously in your role with all the increased responsibility in leading worship in leading the 18 to 30s. So he was definitely crafting leadership in you, Deb. So yes, we can't get away from that. So following such a fantastic period then of giving out and really seeing God move in all these circumstances, you actually experienced a real sense of burnout, didn't you? And and I'm not so prayer in fact. And I think the thing is it's important to say that our stories don't all stay on mountain peaks. They can't can they. There are valleys as well. And we often go into those valleys. And that's where we get shaped most effectively by God. That certainly be my experience. So Deb, what did this season of struggle look like for you? And how did you feel God grow your faith through this? Yeah, I think as you say, like in those periods where I really saw God working and feeling used by God and yeah, just being in that place of like utter joy in His presence, I really did feel like I was on the peak of the mountain. Son of my face, like yeah, just absorbing all in. And then suddenly I just felt like the ground just crumbled beneath my feet. And I had seen God's favour and because I'm so tired. So you're tired. And then suddenly felt like my prayers were going on. I said we prayed for one of our friends through old nephew who was sick and he died. And we prayed for a friend who'd been accused of something that he said he didn't do and he went to prison. And the list just went on and on and it felt like I'd never pray. I'd come from those mountain tops, so my faith was so strong. And yet those prayers didn't get answered in the way we asked. And yeah, it just felt like throughout that year everything we prayed for didn't come to pass. At least not in the way that we hoped that they would or the way that we thought God might move. That just left me with a lot of questions. But in the painting confusion, I continued to worship as a result of these questions. I was determined to come over them because even in my pain I knew that God was good. But then one day I woke up and that tangible sense of course presence wasn't there. And we know that God says He'll never leave us or forsake us. But in that moment I felt abandoned. I felt like God, I've never needed you more. And I can't feel you anymore. And yeah, my heart was shattered. I think like in that time, as you've already said, there are times where it really carved out your character. But I will say that trials pre-part faith to be genuine. And I think, you know, people who say love is a choice not feeling. But also we do feel love. And I think for me I would say faith is the same. That sometimes we feel faith. But sometimes faith is a choice. And in that time where I felt like I was my faith crumbling, I'm either strong Christian as I thought. I actually think in those moments where we feel the weakest, maybe we're the strongest because our faith has never been stretched like that before. And in those moments when you still choose to believe, you still choose to keep taking the next step, you still have choose to worship. Actually that's where our faith is really, like you say, that's where our faith really grows. That's where our faith gets proved genuine. That's the time where a lot of people might walk away. Yeah, and I listened to lots of sermons where it said, these are times where like God is growing you and preparing you for something bigger. And I brought a little bit of comfort, but it doesn't take away from the pain of feeling like I'm struggling with all this pain of these questions. And I don't even feel like God is here. And yet again, why it's so important to know the word of God because our hearts can be deceptive. And I can tell us because of the bandage you cause left you or the devil will tell you that. But to read the word and know that is not true. Like God will never leave us, come and never say God. I took a lot of comfort in reading Job, where the devil was saying, like of course he worships you, you've given him everything. And I think I was saying my life, yeah, I got to give him everything. I was able to take a lot of comfort, although it was so surprised that God doesn't respond to Job for 38 chapters. Yes, that's true, isn't it? 38 chapters. That's quite a time. That's a long time of silence of Job going through the most tremendous suffering. Yes. And not hearing God will reply. I think to feel like that is, that's okay. Like that's normal. It's not something that you've done terribly wrong or. But I think in my desperation to get close to God, like I did everything I could think of, I read more Bible, I saw more worship songs, I served as much as I could. I listened to the end of sermons, I just did everything I could possibly do if it was in my power to get closer to God. And I think that along with a busy job and wrestling with these questions and this grief, yeah, I saw it feel myself burning out. A wise woman at church said to me, "You need to take a break, you need to step down." From serving in the 1830s and worship, which I did, but then that caused me even more heartache because that's the thing where I really felt close to God. The thing that I'd poured up so much my time and my heart into. So was it real or seasoned then of stripping for you? Was stripping back on all these things that you had clung to, I suppose, as means to get closer to God? And suddenly God's removing them from you, almost taking them out of your hands, yeah. And remember when I was a teenager, probably, I said to God, "I will go in your FU or do anything for you." But, and there was a bump, so this is the problem. But don't let my life be boring. And also, let me always know that you're with me. And I feel like in this time, like God stripped me of these conditions and gave me the opportunity to be like all out. Even if I can't feel you, even if I can't hear you, even if I haven't got anything that feels exciting in my life. In terms of my own personal calling, of course, I still have my family and my friends and my church. I will still follow you. And for this wilderness time, it's going to be like the Israelites and it goes on for 40 years. I really hope and pray it does not. But I will still follow you. And I think it also taught me that everything God gives us as a gift. You can't earn it. You can't get close. Well, yes, of course, you can get closer to God through doing those things. But because presence as a gift is not a reward. Wow, that's beautiful, Dave. So, I mean, I've never heard you say that before and I've known you for several years now. To see those truths that God has etched on your heart and just, as you say, permitted you to go through that place where you felt like you had nothing to cling to. And God showed you that I actually know in just choosing to keep clinging to him. That was all you needed. He was all you needed. And, you know, looking at me today, a beautiful, radiant young woman, you know, God is so at the centre of your heart. And I think it's amazing that he, very gently, but very firmly, communicated to you that there were no conditions when it came to faith. And, you know, obviously we're going to dive more into your story and see how God has been so faithful to you. But I love that you express that in that way because I think that it's something that all of us as listeners can resonate with, you know, that there are seasons and periods in our lives where no matter how long we've known God, sometimes he seems to be absent. But actually the truth is he's not. He's just allowing us to sharpen our end and I even more, isn't he? And that intentionality, that choice of our faith, even if I can't see you, even if I can't sense you, even if I can't hear you, I'm still choosing to believe. And that is where we grow most, isn't it? I love that. So your dream for Mission Overseas in Africa actually is about to be realised spoiler for the listeners there. In the wake of COVID, you were given your dream job. You were promoted to a daytime role. Woohoo! That must be amazing as a nurse, though. But you must have had a real sense then of, I've made it, you know, this is it. I'm at the peak of, you know, my career. And I guess it would have been very easy for you to settle down. But that's not what happened. Is it tell us the beautiful story of how God brought Mission Right to the forefront of your thinking again? Yeah, so yeah, I finally have ditched the night shifts, ditched the weekends. And then yeah, I would go visit my granddad and he's reading this book, "Curships of Mercy". And I was surprised because he doesn't normally read books like that. And I was kind of, maybe gave him a funny look about it. And he's, I think he picked up one, me looking and was like, "Oh, have you heard of mercy ships?" And I wasn't aware that I had, although we actually had a conversation when I was a lot younger and you told me about mercy ships. Many, many years ago. But it obviously wasn't cost-timing then. He explained a little bit about what mercy ships was and said, "There's some pictures, do you want to see?" "Oh, do you want to read it?" And as he has me, the book I felt like my life went into slow motion before me and it was almost like it froze. And I felt, in my spirit, this is it. And I knew in that moment if I took that book, it was going to change one. And it did. Wow. Can you expand on that? Yeah. So I took the book home and read it and read endless stories of how this charity go to different parts of the world, particularly in Africa and offer free surgery to people who have no access to healthcare. And I read story and story and story of people that were hopeless and felt like it was never going to get better for them. They couldn't afford healthcare. There wasn't the option. They rejected from society, rejected from their families because of these conditions they had. And then one day God brings mercy ships to their town. And they get to have free surgery on board and how it changes their life. I couldn't read these stories and not weep. And just be like, I want to do something like that. I want God, I want you to use me like that. But at the same time, all those fears I had before, but I don't want to nurse in Africa. Yeah, I think I was like, oh, what if I'm not good enough? Oh, I brave enough. Yeah, so I went on the application page a few times and then I left off it because I was like, oh, I don't think I can do this. And then one day, I finished reading the book, tuned in for church. I hadn't been to church that morning because I've done a night shift the night before. And I listened to the service and somebody gets up and gives a message and say, there's this cloud of anxiety. It's telling you, you're not good enough. You can't do it. You're not brave enough. And just to say that cloud of anxiety was actually just the devil's lies. And then somebody else got up straight after and said, I've got part two of that message. And the message is, somebody's been looking at application online. It's a medical application. And every time you get to the Apply Now button, the cloud of anxiety comes, all these sorts and their feelings come and you click off the page. We've got this saying today's the day to press the button. So I was like, oh, I've got you. Can't get much clearer than that. Oh, wow. That's amazing. Yeah. So I applied. And I applied for a career break. And Yeah, go kind of push my faith there as well because I didn't find out till the day before. I finished my job, so I'd been accepted and that I was going. But I felt like, "Oh, it's so kind to give me that assurance the day before." Like, you could have made me wait. I could have had to walk out of my job in faith and just hope for the best. But yeah, just because timing was really perfect. But he honours those who honour him, Debs. And you'd really honoured him the whole way through. You know, you'd kept that dream from a 16-year-old alive. Or be it on the back burner, but in your mind, alive and constantly sort of pressing in and asking God, "Is it the time? Is it the time?" And each time he'd said no. Actually, although there'd probably been some glamour, but I really wanted to say yes. You'd accepted that no and you'd chosen to plant yourself in where you were and serve him in that. And yeah, he honours those who honour him, so absolutely. And since that point then, you have actually been on Mercy Ships twice, two-stints on Mercy Ships. So, was the reality serving on ship? Did it match your expectations and the initial dream that you had? I would say it was beyond that. I think, yeah, I don't think I ever, even though it was on my heart and I wanted to do it. I don't know if I really ever believed I was brave enough to go. And obviously I said to you, when we met before, I was like, "No, I don't want to nurse there. I obviously want to go to Africa, but I wanted to be something else." And then here I am, I'm on a hospital ship and I'm nursing in Africa. Doing the exact thing I felt got to call me to do 16 years before, when I was 16. I'd lived my entire life again before I got there. And it was just incredible to be living in the fulfilment of a God-given dream. Yes. And yeah, just the joy that I felt and the love I felt for these strangers, seeing such poverty with my own eyes. I'd seen videos of these patients that had had surgery, but then to see a child before you, his legs are back to front, like walking towards you, it's quite like shocking, but also so beautiful, because this child's about to have their lives turned around and, yeah, and they still had so much joy and I just found that incredible. And it was so contagious. It was just such a joyful time. So I'd say yes, it was more than I could have asked or imagined the first time. Second time was more difficult because I was in a different role. I had a lot more responsibility and I worked a lot more hours, but still just such a privilege to be able to meet these people. And we do something that changes their lives, but they change mine. And I think that small encounter where God allows our past to join. Yes. And then we separate and we go on our own ways, but in that moment God just does something so beautiful. Yeah, what a privilege, what a complete privilege. And you know, it was interesting actually, Deb, because even talking to you before this recording today, we were talking about the fact that actually when you came back to the UK in between those trips, it was actually a lot more challenging than you anticipated. I mean, would you say it's fair to say that you encountered culture shock? Yeah, for sure. I would say people prepare you that you're going to have culture shock when you go out to somewhere like Africa. We're going to see poverty. I think in our society, we've seen that kind of thing on TV or we've learned about it in school, as I said to you before. So that didn't shock me going there, particularly not. I mean, seeing some of these conditions were shocking, but overall, I didn't have culture shock going to Africa. But I experienced reverse culture shock when I came home, which was quite a surprise for me, for having only been gone for five months and lived in the UK for 32 years. The thing is, you have these amazing experiences in five months. It's very condensed, I would say, because you're meeting these people where you're doing this work. You feel like you've been there forever, but it's quite a short period of time. And life doesn't move on that fast here. So for me, my whole world felt like it had changed. And then I come home and the world is the same. And by the way that I think about things or I see things are maybe different now. So I found that quite difficult. I think one thing that I found challenging as well as I've had all of these, I've seen things my eyes have never seen before. My heart has felt things I've never felt before. And how do I explain that? I've had all these shared experiences and made these amazing friends while I was out there. And then, same with the patients, these volunteers that become your really close friends. You then go back to your own lives. And there's such a grief there and saying goodbye. Saying goodbye to the patients. You're never going to know 10 years down the line. How are they? They're doing great. But also, yeah, how do you explain to somebody what it is to see a child with no light behind their eyes? Because they've experienced so much rejection in their life. And how do you describe what it feels like to see a child who's like the back to front or to see a child, or an adult, of course, who's burnt all over because they've fallen in a fire. Or they've poured hot water away for themselves. And yeah, just like how do you explain so much pain? So you must have felt then a degree of isolation. I think so, yeah. And there's not that people don't want to hear. And there's not that they don't understand. But I think it's like, I wish I could have teleported this back to you. There was moments where I'd be like, oh, if I could just capture this and send it home, I would just be the best thing. Because I want everybody that I care about to experience this because it's just so great. So on the flip side, it's like the feeling of when you see that child that had no light behind their eyes, small for the first time, or laugh for the first time, and then you see the light in their eyes. When you see a child that couldn't walk running, when you see a child that's been burnt, and now they can have function restored, or someone with a massive tumor, and now it's gone, and just the gratitude as well of the patients. And you know, like if the base is too loud, like a concert, maybe not too loud, depending on whether you like it or not, but you feel the vibrations through your being, you'd feel like the same vibrations with their worship and their celebration and their joy every time somebody got to go home of the ship, every time somebody got healed. Yeah, and just like hearing these stories, and it is like, I want to be able to share that with my family and friends because that will stay with me forever, and it's hard to put that into words. I think it's easier for me to say now because I've been back for some time, but initially I was like, I don't know if I'll ever have the words to express what it feels like to have seen that. Yeah, that makes complete sense. And yet as you say, in the time since, in the interim period, obviously processed so much and God has enabled you to start to put words to that in a way that all of us as listeners can benefit from. So yeah, that's beautiful. And Deb's just to give a bit more of a fuller picture then of mercy ships. So you've talked about your role being one of overseeing the surgery, except you're obviously the medical side, but mercy ships isn't just a ship full of doctors. Well, all nurses. I mean, tell us just a bit more about mercy ships for those who aren't familiar with it. Yeah, sure. So mercy ships is a charity that offers free surgical care to countries where they can afford it or didn't have safe access to surgery. And particularly in Africa, but other countries as well. It's a ship with a hospital inside. But like every hospital is not just run, like you say, by doctors and nurses. We need people to sell the ship. We need engineers. We need teachers. We need cleaners. We need catering staff. Yeah, I think it doesn't matter what your skill is. You can be used in some way like mercy ships. And how big is the crew? The ship I was on, I think, was 600 people. Okay. And you have times together, the 600 of you gathered in worship and prayer. Wow. That must be incredible. Yeah. It was really special. It was really nice to be with people that want to be there. Everybody's a volunteer. No, he's paid. Everybody, yeah, who's just given up their time and their skills to go and serve. And I think that really unites everybody, even though we've come from all over the world. Yes. But yeah, united with one vision and one heart. And yeah, that's great. Amazing. So what a brilliant community of like-minded men and women you were serving alongside. That must have been a real inspiration and a real joy to you. And I do remember as a church we were praying for you before we sent you out. And one of the things actually that our pastor said was praying for significant relationships for you to be formed. Now, you know, all of us love a little bit of romance and, you know, having watched you grow up over the years in the church as a single young woman. It was amazing to think, well, maybe she's going to meet someone exciting on the ship. You never know. But actually God had other plans for you, didn't he, Deb? So tell us a little bit about that because in tandem with you serving and following that dream that God placed on your heart. God actually brought a different dynamic in, didn't he? Yeah. I'd always said, I want to do a mission, I want to travel. And one day I'd love to get married. And when I was on the ship, I was like, well, I'm like, I'm living in the mission. I'm about to go travel length. So maybe this other dream that's also been on the back burner. I'd read a book when I was 17 about marriage and about singleness, being a gift and dating to marry, basically. basically and was out on 17. I'm not ready to get married and This singleness is a gift to pursue what got scored you to do. Sounds amazing. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to stay single until I feel like I'm ready to get my own. And you've heard about all of those years and the adventures, some of the adventures that I had in that time. And when I was on the ship, I was like, oh, OK, now I've done the mission. Now I've done the travel. Maybe God is like preparing me for the next thing too. And I started talking to my heart to it. I saw a friend when I was traveling in Australia and she said, oh, your heart's changed towards marriage. I think there's something that I'd always prayed for. But like I think it's in James where it says, you don't get what you pray for because you're kind of like tossed around like, by the way, if she don't really. It's like, yeah, I want it, but I don't really want it right now. But when I was in Australia, nearer the end of the trip, after I've seen my friend, I sat at the airport and I prayed that God would bring me a cordley man. And I'd pray that prayer many, many, many times before. But this time, I actually really meant it. I really was like, God, I want to share my life with someone. I've had done all these amazing things. You've shown me that I can't do them on my own, where I didn't think I was brave enough. But as she now, I want to share it with somebody because it's amazing. I want to have somebody else to experience it with. And I came home from Australia. I was only home for five weeks before I was going back to Africa. And a friend who I've been friends with for a very long time had also been having a similar walk with God, where I had a long season of singleness felt like I got a cordy to be single. And then in that last year, God was changing his heart towards being open to me, somebody and getting married. Yeah, so I come home and you would not have been alone in thinking, oh, maybe I might meet someone on the ship. And I think that's what I had in my head was, yeah, coming home, I get ready to go again. And maybe I might meet somebody. Maybe I might stay on the ship forever. Maybe this will be our life. For sure. But as you say, God had other plans and this man that had been serving alongside for the last eight years in order to great friends with suddenly our friendship felt a little bit different. And then I'm asking God the question of not just, okay, will you like bring my husband to be on the ship, but yeah, asking the question about this other person in being like, is it him? And yeah, I don't really know why I was surprised because I'd had three dreams that year, that this particular person was going to ask me out. And all of them I just thought that's weird and just like disregarded them because in my head I was going back to the ship, in my head also thinking maybe I'll meet somebody. But yeah, by the time the third dream came, one of my friends had kind of was like, is that staring up any kind of feelings? Yeah, so three dreams has gone dropping in the next two. Yeah, exactly. And so then I get a message from him saying, oh, can can you can we meet up this one more each brother? And then I had a few days of being like, oh my goodness, what is it? So manipulation. Very dangerous. And I was like, well, I know him and I know that he wouldn't ask a girl to meet up on their own if he wasn't asking me out, but I also know that he's not wanted to pursue a relationship with a woman the whole time I'm known him. So I'm like, what is it? And I shouldn't have been surprised because I'd had those three dreams. And then we go for a walk and he says he wants to take me. And it just felt like danger of me because I've had three dreams that was going to happen already. And they just kind of was like, oh, and I think because to me, by that point I was like, oh yeah, I've seen this happen. This is the first time now. I've seen this play out. I didn't really respond and say he was just left in the dark like. He said I gave nothing away, which I didn't know, not intentionally, but I just kind of like, oh wait, yeah. Even to the point where I was like, am I dreaming again? Or was this actually real? I just did this dream number four. I've had this dream three times. It could be another dream. Yeah, so then he asked me to go away and pray about it. I did point out to him that I was leaving to go to Africa the next day. And yes, I go away and pray about it. I pray about it and he's a man who loves God and has great character that I've seen over these eight years. So I think one of the things he said to me was, I'd be crazy not to ask you. Even though you're leaving. And for me, I was like, well, I'd be crazy not to say yes. Because you're everything that I've prayed for over these many years. So yeah, and we're going together for 16 months now. And watch this space that's exciting. Yeah, I just love Debs though. How again, how faithful you have been through the years in putting God first, you know, in putting his purposes in your life first. And then when he'd brought you to a place where you had pursued the dreams he'd given you, then that extra dream he was able to bring it into your your vision again. And I just think that that's beautiful. So it's been amazing to hear your story today. Really inspirational, really exciting. And I do hope that it has massively encouraged and empowered listeners. So we always try and have a slightly practical kind of element to carry shells as well. In the sense of saying, what words of counsel and encouragement would you like to offer listeners, Debs? I think one thing we talked about before was like if somebody wants to go on mission, what would you say? Hmm. I would say, well, whether it's a mission, whatever it is, whether it's something you feel cool to our home or overseas, if God's put it on a heart, do it. I think God will provide for you, God will give you everything you need. And you won't regret doing what God has asked you to do. It will be more than you could ask for, I imagine, even if it costs you. Yes. I think I would also encourage people if you've been waiting a long time, not to give up. Yeah, 16 years of waiting to be in Africa, 16 years of singleness before being in a relationship. And God hasn't let me down in those promises. Even in that period, it felt like I couldn't hear him, I couldn't see him, felt like everything would been stripped away as you so rightly said. Like then now, I feel like I have full hands, but I feel like my heart has been changed towards it because now I know God has gifted me those things. And I didn't, and then I didn't force them, I didn't make them happen myself. I know that God has blessed me and gifted them to me. Yes. And I think then I receive them with a more humble heart and more gratitude than if I'd had them earlier. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes. So I would just, yeah, encourage anybody that feels like it's been a long time, yeah, just to keep you in faithful way you're planted and allow God to use you because God used me many times in my work. I didn't know it at the time, but I've heard amazing stories afterwards when people said, like, oh, you're there just right moment. And I think so much of us, maybe we think about the big things, but God works mostly in the Monday, in the every day. God can still use us. Yeah, something I learned on the ship was that God can change life with one encounter. And that wasn't always just with the patience. Sometimes it was with a crew member and just welcoming somebody saying hello. It was amazing to see how God speaks to somebody in that moment. One time I just sat next to a girl for breakfast and she was saying that she'd felt like she was praying to God be in like, I don't know many friends. Nobody likes me. Nobody sees me. And then I sat down and she for her that was God saying, I see you. So yeah, I think just don't underestimate the power of the every day. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And as you say, you don't always know what God is doing, do you? But you can just be faithful as yourself. Absolutely. And there's just one more thing I want to bring out, Debs, which struck me when you were talking initially about your grandfather reading the book about mercy ships. And you took it home and you sat down and you read it from cover to cover. And as you read those stories, your heart, you just wept. Now, I mean, that's a beautiful response. But to me, that is indicative that that was a Holy Spirit response. You know, that this was something that God was calling you into. You know, and I think I just want to highlight that fact for all of us as listeners, because we've all been made distinctly. And there are different things in the world in God's world that will draw each of us to a place of tears. But that can be a really helpful indicator of the dreams that God has placed on us. Did you feel at the time when you were reading it? Did you have a sense of, gosh, why am I crying? Did you question that or did it just feel utterly natural? Yeah, I completely agree with what you said. I think for me, I just felt like exactly what you said, I have to go. Yeah, just mood for compassion and just like, yeah, I don't know. I don't think it was, I don't think I questioned why. I think it was just, I knew what God was saying. I knew that God was saying you're going to go. Instinct. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Well, let's wrap up then our conversation by praying. And I think there's a few things to pray for. I'd love to pray for the work of mercy ships and those who are on the crew, long and short term. I'd love to pray for men and women worldwide, particularly women to be attentive and obedient to God's call to use their jobs as an opportunity for His glory. Not just as a job, but actually to see it as a sphere of influence, a sphere of where God has planted them with their particular skill sets and their particular friendships and relationships around them and that they have a unique opportunity to be a light in that place. And you know, yeah, let's all celebrate that we have been given those different spheres because we're all individuals, right? You know, I mean, I'm not a pediatric nurse. I would be rubbish, Debs. Absolutely rubbish. I'd hold the children and give them a great big hug, but come medical surgery. No, don't trust me. And let's pray for women as well that their first focus and hard dream would be Jesus. Above all, you know, whatever situation they're in, whether they are young women praying and longing for a husband, whether they're slightly older and they haven't yet met that husband and they are still praying for that husband. Or whether actually there are no different seasons of life, perhaps they're retired and they've recently lost their husband. But God is able to meet our deepest needs as women. And you are a living proof of that. So I just think it's really important for us to pray for women in those waiting places that they would know God is their first love. So would you pray enough in it? It's amazing. Yeah Father God, thank you so much that you are present with us. And I think you that our days are written in your book. I think you that you have good plans. I think you that you've created us all individually. And I think you that you give us an invitation to partner with you. Lord I just want to pray for anybody listening this morning. Anybody that's struggling, anybody feels like they can't hear you. Or they don't know what they're called to do. Or they feel like you're silent. Lord I just pray you would meet with them in a tangible way today. And for those that are thinking about doing something you've asked them to do, but maybe don't have the courage, Lord I pray that you would just give them the courage to just step out. Lord I thank you that you will provide. I thank you that you will go before them and give them what they need. And yeah I thank you, I thank you for the way that you do just work behind the scenes where we can't see. I thank you that you have got of a bigger picture. And yeah I thank you that you speak to us Lord. I pray that you make our ears more attentive and our hearts more open to you. Yeah and I thank you Lord for all of the charities out there that are trying to help others. I thank you for those ships. So I thank you for the way it just brings so much hope and healing. I thank you for the way that it's not just the patients that get healed but the crew get healed. And I thank you for the salvation that happens there Lord. I thank you for your presence there. And I'll be grateful for protection over the crew and the team Lord. And yeah I thank you Lord for all that you do. Jesus Amen. And Father I just feel prompted specifically to ask that by the power of your Holy Spirit, you would impart to all of us as listeners your dreams. God shape dreams for every single listener. Lord whether there is a dream in them that is dormant or whether there is a dream in them that has not yet come to pass or whether you wish to give a fresh dream. Father I ask that you would have complete freedom to deposit the dreams that you want to in each of us as women across the world and that we would have our ears attuned to your voice to what you are doing and we would choose as Debs said Lord it's so important to choose to collaborate with you and to see those dreams come to realization. Father thank you that you have been here in all our conversations and we pray that you see a Lynne everything of yourself in Jesus name. Amen. Thank you so much for listening in to Carrey Shales today with me your host Katherine Grimes and our beautiful guest and a big thank you to all the women who make Carrey Shales podcast possible for your generous support you know who you are and we are eternally grateful. A big thank you goes out to David Campion of Open Sky Media for editing and producing this episode and this is where you come in. If you have enjoyed listening to this episode please help us by growing the Carrey Shales community of women of faith. You can leave a review or a rating, pass the stories on and look for the stories in your own life as well. Thank you and look forward to talking with you next time. [Music]