A Spurs Fumble, CarusoMania, Brunson’s Mega-Rise and a Knicks Appreciation With Tim Legler and Brian Koppelman

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Download the Fandall sportsbook app right now and play your game. 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming, a game problem called 1-800-Gamber call 888-787-777 or visit ccpg.org/chat Connecticut. All right, the Bill Simmons podcast, we are live after game five. Our friend Tim Legler is here, kind of a ghostly massage here for him, kind of kind of matte. It's like, yeah, definitely, man, it's my queen album cover look. I like it. Well, matching the weirdness, weirdness we just had. I think it's kind of fitting because it, it feels like, I don't know if those spurs can be okay. See tune or we have a lot to discuss, wanted to mention, I have a new rewatch almost coming that came out on Monday. We did animal house. You must love animal house. That must have been of course. Here's some way back when, but you can catch that and you can hear legs. What's the name of your podcast? The All Things podcast. All city. All city podcast. I'm blank. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, you can see legs on the, on the finals, which are coming up. All right. Game five. I, here's my big takeaway. Just a missed opportunity for the spurs. Oh, yeah. I felt like, you know, it's too to, AJ Mitchell gets scrapped. Jaylen Williams gets scratched pretty much like an hour before the game. Although, I, I feel like we're expecting a little bit. And then SGA comes out and was really bad for the first six minutes of the game. He said after the game, he said that was like the worst first quarters had in his career. He's probably exaggerating. And the spurs, I just never really felt the urgency. They showed that, that, that one half time speech when it was like 8771, whatever was there down 16 and when he's got the guys around and then they came out and played with some passion for, I don't know, four minutes, but I don't know, man, did they think this was a 19 game series? What's going on with them? Here's what I think a couple of things. I think, first of all, I, you're right about the opportunity, you know, listen, you, you've got to win another game there to win the series, right? And so you look at this situation. You don't have Jaylen Williams. You don't have AJ Mitchell. It's like their first, first game they're going to get them like kind of like, wow, we, you know, this is a bit a lot of pressure on us here because we don't win this game. We're going to have to go to San Antonio with, but the prospect of being closed out. It's an awful lot of pressure on the home team in a two two situation and you're missing a couple of guys. So some guys are going to have to step up. So you would think like San Antonio's approach should be like, this is a game. Not only that, you know, we can't get, we have to get that. That's kind of how I think their approach should have been going in and they probably felt that way. Um, I, they just didn't play well enough in this situation they get it done. And I think one of the things that jumps out right away is, you look at Victor Webanyama and a lot of us being talked about like during the game that, you know, he kind of quiet passive didn't get a lot of shots. Think a lot of touches where he wants it. He had some free throws. So his numbers weren't like horrific early. But the thing that I'm thinking about while I'm watching that bill is this, when you look at the other top guys in his league, just go with like the all NBA team, if you want to. And even guys on the second team, like those are guys because of the nature of their game, like physically, the, you know, their, their dimensions, they can get theirs when they want to get theirs a lot of times. That's not always the case for Victor Webanyama. And it's not going to be he's seven foot, you know, four or five, whatever you want to call it, he's slightly built seven six, seven, whatever you want to call it, say, say, every time I hear a game with Victor, I mean, I'm on it, they say as, they say it's high differently. But I don't even know, let's, I typically go with seven five because that's what it looks like to me. He can't just go get it when he wants to because of that. Sometimes it works against him. If, if he's not catching the ball and ideal spots, if some of their actions aren't designed, so he can get a quick roll to the rim from a decent distance, not 28 feet, where he's got to take two, three strides to it, where he can get chipped and bumped along the way. If he can't find those actions, those spaces, or even some of the early stuff, sometimes when he gets some threes going, because it's early in transition, he can't just go put it down, use his live dribble, cross guys up, have a counter move off the dribble and get what he wants, go to a fade away jumper or an up and under in the mid range or whatever, it's just harder for him. So there's going to be nights when that offense isn't just going to be automatic. And most of those guys in this league, when you look at yokets, you look at Shay, you know, you look at Luka, you look at the Cade Cunningham's of the world, the Jalen Brown's of the world. When you look at those Anthony Edwards, when you look at those guys, like, and look, they're not always going to shoot great, but they can operate in spaces where they can go get a shot for themselves most of the time if they're not blitzed. And it's not that way for Victor Webbingam. So there's going to be nights when that offense is going to be a little inconsistent. Now he affects the game defensively, he can rebound, he can do all those things, but there are nights, man, when you need your best player to go get you 30, and he is not going to be able to do that whenever he wants because of the way he's built. And that's kind of one thing I noticed about this game early. The way he was being defended, how hard it was for him to get touches where he wants it. He didn't really get involved in a game offensively in a game like this with what's at stake. He kind of needed Victor Webbingam to be a lot better than he was offensively. Yeah, you're talking about the concept of feeling somebody throughout a game, right? The best part is in the league, you just kind of feel them, even if they're not having the best game. They're still around there in it. What's weird is they did this in game three, and they made a big deal after in game four, pop came in and yelled at us after and we had to go back to being us and we had to, and it's like, I thought you guys learned your lesson already that if you're just the three point shooting team and Wembee's 25 feet from the basket, that this isn't going to really work. Now, you could also argue they lost the game because they gave up almost 130 points. But I'm with you. Like, okay, see, because they were able to capitalize on some of the turnovers and some of the, some of the weirdness of the game, and we're able to patch together some stretches even when SJ wasn't playing well. I just, when I watch it because I obviously love watching Wembee as, as do you, I just don't really understand how they use them sometimes. Like when you talk about like how do you get them more involved? They were talking on the broadcast about get them in the paint. See, she would happens when he's in the paint. Is it really that hard to get him near the paint? Like, you could start him under the basket and have him like drift up. You could have him kind of near the block, trying to back in, but they always seem like they fall in this habit of he's just at the top of the key. His three wasn't going tonight. I didn't feel like he had his legs tonight either. He was out from five from three. So for me, it's like, are you doing what OKC wants you to do? And the answer is yes. This is their, they're really hoping going into this game that you're going to play this way with him. And that's, that's how it played out. I think there are ways to get in the ball and look, they know this misjunctions are great coach. They're, there are ways to get in the ball. Sometimes it, it happens a little bit more organically for them. They mandate it. Whatever. Maybe his determination to get it. I love him personally, when he sets ball screens inside of, you know, 23 feet, 22 feet. He sets elbow ball screens. He sets ball screens. When he starts at the elbow and sort of heads out toward the sideline sets it so that when he spins out of it, it's like one stride. It's easier to come off the screen and just quickly throw it to him as he's first starting to move toward the rim. And then it's very difficult for the rotating defender to do much with it because of where he's catching the ball. If you just think he's going to run down the floor, go into the post area and just kind of put his hand up and get it where he wants. You could see time and time again, he gets in a wrestling match is down there. Even against smaller guys, it's not that easy to do. And sometimes I think their guards don't give him enough time when he gets a switch. He's got a smaller guy. He, you know, a lot of guys in this league, like if it's yokich, let's just use as an example that obviously wants to touch the ball in the post as well. It's a guy like yokich, he gets to switch. He goes somewhere near the lane and then he just stops, camps out and uses his weight and strength and just holds the guy there, puts a hand up and you just lead him and it catches everything. You know, when Miyama's got good hands too, but it's harder for him. him to just hold his position and keep, keep that defender at bay that's trying to back into him and they're trying to use their back into his thighs and like dislodge him. Now he can get there. You've got to give him an extra count. And the problem is against OKC, that means the ball handling needs a little bit more time, the passion needs a little bit more time. The problem is they're being pressured like hell out there. So they can't just sit there and hold it and wait for Victor to get his position down there. They end up reversing it. And by the time he now looks like he's ready to receive it, the ball's going to the other side of the floor. It's going to the top of the key, then to the other side. And now you're asking an awful lot. Now is he going to flash from one side through traffic at bump three times and go catch it on the other side of the lane? That's just not his game. That's not his physical profile to play that way. So the quick hitters off the ball screens when he sets the screen closer to the rim and he dies quicker. The ball hits him like right away as he's moving. He can catch it. He can do something really effective with it. And actually that's where he draws most of his fouls. I didn't see him involved in a lot of actions like that in this game. He was catching it a lot and then turning and facing and trying to figure out what he wanted to do against guys off the dribble. And that's just not going to be there every night for him. The way that it is, other elite scores in this league who can get lower, they can set you up, get into a step back jumper from wherever they want. They can cross you up, counter, maybe even cross you up and then go back between their legs the same direction and get like a little pull up and operate one on one space. That's just not going to be there all the time for Victor and it wasn't really tonight. And they needed more from him and you know at the same time Oklahoma City was getting really good performances from some guys that had to be big tonight. One of which you know you had texted me earlier and said McCay's got a great game. And for 19's not a great night, but it was very second half. Yes, second half. Very impactful. Yeah. And that's your younger guys usually at home are going to be a little bit of a safer bet. I wrote down maybe playoff experience does matter question marks. So here's the thing with playoff experience because this was the thing. This was the thing we always talked about during this season with the spurs. They're too young. They're not ready yet. Well, what does that mean? You think like you're too young. That means, oh my God, there's so much pressure. I don't know what to do. I've never been here before. It's like, almost like how it would be like with a quarterback like Drake May in the playoff slash chair. Ooh. And then well, we have Dave Jacobi here on the zoom for some reason trying to figure out. Why this is exciting, but when I think about playoff experience, sometimes it's just kind of knowing what to do in a game like this, right? He's 22 years old. It's like, hey, they don't have Jalen waves, they don't have AJ Mitchell come out in the first half and have like the game of your life, have like your ESPN classic game. And that's the you thing. I feel like when he's 27, 20 years old, you just approach this game a little bit differently. But I don't listen. Oh, good. No, I was just going to say, now you're right, I look at the, like the Dylan Harper component to this. He's such an X factor because he's so physically talented. He's a guy that can play through the pressure, the grabbing, holding that you're going to get against these OKC guards, particularly in the postseason. He could play through that stuff. He's just got strong shoulders, forearms. He can still get to his spots. He's got multiple speeds he plays with. I think he's a little bit like more affected when Deer Foxes out there, Deer Foxes running more of the show. It's almost like Dylan Harper is in a different mindset. You know, in game like this, he plays 25 minutes. He takes five shots from the field, Dylan Harper is too good a player. And he is physically too gifted against this type of defense for him to be some sort of afterthought for them offensively. He needed to be much more aggressive, had the opportunity to be aggressive. He could have made up for some of what Wembee wasn't giving you, because not everybody on this team can play through that stuff. He can still get where he wants to get on the floor, but he really was sort of quiet and passive. And he's like, he's a young player on the road in the biggest game of his life. Yeah. That probably factors into it. And some of these guys from the Thunderman have been here before. Their younger players are just a little bit older than some of Anthony's young players. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like cast on the first half was like that. Like he was just super sloppy. And I thought it was hurting them. And then in the second half, you could see he's like, you know, I'm going to put, I'm going to get my defense going. I'm going to put my head. I'm going to get to the basket. And he actually had a really good second half. Harper did not. And Fox was bad. I don't, I think Fox is hurt. I don't feel like he had any lift. I agree. It's for 15. He just didn't have that. He's trying to play through it, man. And I was just like that. I really do. Man, you know, you're not going to sit there. And if you can go, you're not going to sit there and watch other guys play like you, you know, they need it. He's the only guy to take care of the ball. Absolutely need him. He's, you know, had the one playoff series under his belt, you know, before this season, this guy's like, I'm not missing this for anything, but I think you're right because he has, he has that next level quickness that gets to from point A to point B. And against the team like the Thunder, you really need that because of the way they close down driving lanes. They're so good at helping on the lane, closing out with speed to the three point lane. Like he can match that speed and he doesn't quite seem like he's got all of that. And it is what it is. He's going to play through it, but, you know, 33 minutes, four for 15 from the field. That's not really typical for deared fox for a guy that's such a natural score. I don't, I agree with you. I don't think he's right. Not a lot of coast to coast stuff with him. No, either. With all that said, Wembeys, Wembe kind of sucked for him, Fox, the neb lift, Harper didn't really show up. And champagne kind of kept them in the game in the first half. I kind of liked the shot, St. Antonio was getting this game. They had, they missed a lot of corner threes in the second half. Um, I thought there were stretches where I didn't, I didn't love the whistle. They were getting offensively. I thought they did a bunch of dumb stuff defensively and some, some of the fouls, but, um, but it was weird. They were hanging around, hanging around. And it was at one point near the end of third quarter. I think it was eight. And it was like, shit, this is, they're going to steal this game. I, I've seen this before, Wembeys going to put the superhero cape on in the fourth quarter, but okay, see, they're a really good job. And heart and stand, heart andstein and, uh, Caruso. And then McCain get hot near the end, but I thought heart andstein and Caruso, if you had to pick the number two MVP of okay, for okay, see for this series. After SGA, obviously who's the MVP? Who would your number two MVP choice for okay, see big? Cause mine would be Caruso. Man, it's tough. I honestly, yeah, you probably would be Caruso. The timeliness of his shooting, what he always gives you in other areas, but the timeliness of his shooting and scoring has been immense in this series. But again, you could hand pick some spots for heart andstein too. You go, where would they be without the way he played? Um, chat, you know, has not been anything like overwhelming offensively, pretty solid. I thought heart andstein was great in this game. Um, he really was his, his rebounding, his, his touch the way he makes you pay with that little push shot, which is, you know, I always referred to as releasing the doves. It's the strangest looking shot that he has perfected and just, he's letting the, lets the doves go like in central park somewhere like that's what it looks like. Uh, he shot one of those, by the way, over Wimba and Yama on the right baseline. Um, that, that ball must have traveled, uh, like eight, nine, 10 feet, um, above, it's like a bear shot. It was, it, so you think about the actual dist, it was like a 12 foot shot that traveled a greater distance than most NBA three point shots. Well, the other thing I love with him, he, uh, how high that ball, yeah, the other thing I love with him. Well, two things. First of all, his fouls are just hard. You feel them fouls that aren't flagrants, but each one is like a foul and a half. Yeah. Um, the other thing, he gets offensive rebounds, but they always feel like they're these big, kind of quarter swinging offensive rebounds. Like he had two in a row that led to, uh, I think two threes, I'm going to say it was like an eight point game all of a sudden. It was a 13 point game just because he kept two possessions alive. Um, so they're, I agree with you. I, I said this in a, a pot of cold days ago, like, I thought in game one, I was like, man, they're going to play them off the floor. You're not going to be able to keep them. Yeah. Now, now you watch and you go, how are they going to let this guy leave the summer because he's got like the $29 million team option, uh, J Dub's contract pumps up, home grinds contract pumps up. They got Lou Doret. They have to figure out, you know, they're going to be in some real tax issues that haven't shown a huge appetite to pay it, but I don't see how you let it heart and stain. I don't see how you let them leave. I also think he'd have real value to, I don't know, eight, 10 other teams that have cap space or at least the mid level. Definitely because he, one, the one thing he totally understands also is he is the master at finding that late in the possession, little pocket that he has to get to, to make himself available when a guard penetrates, and then maybe it's, they've already tried a couple of actions. It wasn't going. Now, a guy just gets downhill and it's like going to be a bad shot that somebody's about to fill with the rim. And then here comes Hart and Stein from the baseline and he flashes right into that middle of the lane area, you know, 10, 12 feet. He catches it and he gets that soft shot out. So he bails out some of their possessions. He gives them extra possessions. and he has six offence of rebounds. I don't think. You can tangibly even quantify how many additional offensive rebound opportunities he creates because they've got two guys trying to keep him off the glass. Right, right. Other guys guards then sneak in and run down a long one. That guard should have been there for the opponent. They're not because they're helping chip one hard time because they're tired of watching him get two or three in a row. So that's a whole nother element to like what he brings to it just because of his activity. And I love your calm your point about the fouls. You don't play through those for and ones against hard time that he's going to he's going to hit you in a way and again, he said it's all it's all legal stuff. He's chopping down on your arms, biceps, forearms as guys are trying to get up. And then you're going to feel it and you're not going to most importantly, you're not going to play through it for an end one. You're going to have to go earn them. And in a lot of cases, maybe you know, your arm is like numb when you're like going up there to try to shoot well in your. So as she had 32, 16 for 17 free throws, six turnovers, McCain, 18, Hartstein was 12 and 15 and Crusos, 22 with six deals and four threes. I have two big picture questions for you. This is the basketball fan just that after game one, which was an all time, all time, all time. I was like, wow, buckle up. This is a series for the ages. We fly a little too close to the sun because we haven't had a good game since the series is not better classic. Game one had all of the everything you'd ever want. And then we've had four kind of probably never watch any parts of any of these games again. Where are we with this series now? Because I'm watching it. Well, that'll lead to big question with you, but I'm watching this one like, I really thought this was going to be the finals and it doesn't 100% feel that way. So why? What's anticipated game of the entire season without without a doubt with what's at stake in this game? Because what I said earlier, San Antonio, a lot of people, you know, believe can win the series. What we're going to win the series. This is your chance. This is your chance. You know, they they both each split on each other's floors. Now you go, okay, this is what it sets up. This game five, you get it. You get that last home opportunity to close out the defending champion. This is what we grew up with. These awesome game fives. This is it. The game five shows on NBA TV for 20 years. Game five is the one. And I agree with you. I mean, obviously, what all you really want as a fan, when you sit down to watch it as a broadcaster or if I'm calling the game, just give me some drama late. That's all you really asked for, man. So somebody that has to really rise up and show a lot of nerve to knock down a big shot. Like some great defensive play. That's all you're asking for, man. Inside of a minute, game could go either way type of feel to it. And no, you haven't really had that incredible first game. It was the greatest games any of us have ever seen in the playoffs. And you're thinking as we all were, oh, man, we're going to get like five or six more of those. It's going to be incredible. And it's I guess that was too hard to live up to, man. But look, it might have, it might have taken something out of both teams. Like we've had a bunch of injuries since that game and a bunch of guys that don't look like they're 100% anymore. Yeah. Well, listen, at least it certainly beat what we were calling in the Eastern Conference Finals with what we want. We certainly got that same drama in game one of that series with what the Knicks had to do. 22 point deficit in less than eight minutes. And Brunson just put on an all time show. And then, you know, goes overtime, Knicks win. And then the rest is history. And you know, particularly how those last two ended in Cleveland. So at least, you know, these games, even though like Oklahoma City got up 10, 12, 15, 18, whatever it was, you're still sitting there going. There's enough time. Spurs are good enough. And like the way the game was kind of going, you like spurs could make it eight, oh, run here, 10, oh, run. This could still get to a six point game with five minutes to go. And they just, you know, in both cases throughout the series, haven't been able to make that run that really made the other team feel it outside of game one, really feel it. If they were going to chase you down, you're going to have to really earn this late in the game. So, yeah, I guess so. I mean, I guess from a fans perspective, hasn't lived up to it. I don't think anybody in Oklahoma City is bitching about that right now. They're up three to and that's, that's, that's fine with that, man. They don't need to have the drama that we're describing. If they can end up winning this in six or seven games. Well, that leads to question number two. We headed into the series thinking this was the NBA finals. The Knicks are just playing better than both of these teams. Yeah. The fact, now you could say it's the schedule they played, but it's really hard. I think you were there to the 2014 finals, Spurs Miami and the Spurs just hit that level where they just put, we're playing so beautifully together. I remember being on TV, being like, I think the series, like in game four, like, I think this is over. I think the Spurs, I've kind of solved Miami and I think they've gone to another level and it was just the selflessness and everything we were watching, which you just watched for four games. And if I'm them, I feel like I can beat either of these teams now. Now, we don't know if, okay, say if, if Jato comes back and Mitchell and they have a full healthy team and they're going to have all these dudes to throw a Brunson, you know, and, and try to wear him down and guard him 94 feet, I get there's some matchup stuff. But just holistically, if I'm the Knicks, I'm like, we're in a heater. These teams are just going to beat the crap out of each other and something magical is happening. They win the finals, which I don't think anyone other than them would have thought two weeks ago, right? I mean, I go back two weeks ago, I probably will be thinking that they haven't lost a game in a month in the playoffs. So I think, right, once they got into that Philly series and started hitting their stride and this was looking this way every night, offensively, somewhere in the Philly series, it started look like, okay, damn, the Knicks, man, they've really closed that gap with the West because at one point, I don't know how long ago you'd have to go back. For me, probably, you know, late March, early April, where you're going, it's a foregone conclusion, whoever wins the West is the NBA champion. And at that time, there was even a time when Denver was even still kind of included in that, right? But it was really, we were mainly talking about the top two teams. And here's what I'll tell you, that narrative is now completely changed because of the way the Knicks are playing. Now, I'm not sitting here predicting the Knicks will win. What I'm saying is, now you've got a series with whoever they play. That's the kind of basketball that they're playing because it was going to take something that was going to be almost mind blowing offensively to think that anybody coming out of the East was going to be able to operate the way you need to to actually win a series against those two defenses. And that's what the Knicks have reached. It's literally a level of offensive basketball that you sit there. It's so overwhelming for their opponents. You can't really even believe that you're deep into the NBA playoffs. And this is happening. And it was switched, was flipped in the middle of the Atlanta series. They haven't lost a game since 11 straight. So some really interesting stat. I kind of had some people dig up for me because I was really curious. I'm looking at this team and I'm going, when have you had five starters at the same time playing this well in rhythm? I looked at their, I looked at their field goal percentage as a group. The five starters, 53% as a group, okay? So I went and I said, well, who else has done that? You know how far you have to go back? The only three group of starters that were this deep into the postseason that had a higher field goal percentage collectively amongst starters. Then the next team this year were the 84, 85 and 86 Lakers. Jesus. And they were layups and ducks half the time. That's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I said. It's magic. It's cream. It's worthy. Yeah. Like this is the, this is the team. And they did it three years in a row, a little bit or not above that. And then the next 53% for your start as a group. And it's like, it's, I mean, what bridge is finally cooled off. I was like, okay, you know, because the numbers were getting so ridiculous at one point and he was 67 for his last 97 from the field and a guy that shoots mostly jumpers gets a little bit of slashing stuff, couple layups and transition, but a lot of it is pull up jumpers. Couple of three is a game does go to line ever to get rhythm. So any shooting. He's like 67 for his last night. He's like one point. He was 72% in an 11 game stretch. Landry Shamit comes off the bench. What does he do? That's just 11 for 12 from the three. 12 teams. Yeah. He had a funny back and forth Richard Jefferson on the forecast that he's like, you know, man, one guy that's made himself some money is Landry Shamit. I said, is 92% for the three point like us that are good in the conference finals? I don't know. And so even that stuff, but it's the starters. That's really what we're talking about here. The flow that they have, the way they're sharing the ball, you know what that does, Bill, for me, it means this, you can win on the road now because balance travels, defense, their defense is playing almost as well as their offense, but their offense has a lot to do with that because it's been so good. You're taking them all the net all the time. Their defense is going to be better, but it's the balance balance travels. You don't need it from one guy on any given night. Guys are picking each other up. And it's just this machine-like performance offensively does now thrust them into the conversation of yes, yes, it's possible. The next could be the champions when this is all set and done, certainly they're worthy of going toe to toe with whoever they face in the NBA finals. And I don't think anybody thought that going into the postseason, there was a worthy challenger to those teams. Well, they have a couple of things you want, right? They have a star who can go toe to toe in the last five minutes of a game. They can come from behind. They don't necessarily. They're a little like OKC in this sense that they can kind of survive a bad game from anybody in their top six and somebody else will pick up the slack to get all these fast break points that not sure that's going to translate into into playing OKC or saying Antonio, probably not the same as when like James Harden and some of the calves are out there. Yeah. But, you know, I think about like, I thought the best two teams I saw this century. And it's not even close for the, with the 17 warriors and the '01 Lakers. I just thought levitated above everybody. But both of those teams legitimately could have gone undefeated. And then we've seen teams that went on heaters as the playoffs went along, right? And Nuggets hit a point in 23 where it was like Jesus, oh, it's happening for these guys. There's the Spurs 2014 is another great example. And then the 11 maps were these teams, seven eight guys, and they just, you can kind of see them figuring out in real time. The interesting piece with the Knicks is the math is on their side too. Like, they're like, what are they? Plus 20 now? That rating for the playoffs. I remember doing this before the Dallas Celtic series. Like at some point, the math is the math. If somebody's just killing everybody for a month, you have to take that seriously. And I don't think the East was that bad either. You know, that, that calves team, I thought was a pretty, pretty tough well-rounded team. The Knicks were better than them. But they, by the end of that series, they were, they were tapping out like a UFC fighter, you know? And I don't know. I just, I think the Knicks can be either of these teams. I really do. I would not have said that even 10 days ago, but I wouldn't have them favored. I mean, it's like 50-50. Yeah, Bill, I think it would be honestly foolish for any person to say that they couldn't at this point. I mean, and I understand you could talk about the path and who they played. And I mean, I think also there was some things in the Western conference that the path was a little bit easier than we thought it was going to be for these teams. But listen, you look at the Knicks. There's no doubt. I mean, you know, Atlanta gave them their, their biggest test. Philly was, you know, dealing with the imbeid stuff, banged up there and they, they were not right, not themselves, it still doesn't explain what the Knicks did to them. It doesn't explain in this series what the Knicks did to them. Now, look, I don't think Cavs, Cavs, the way they're extra playing, the Cavs aren't winning that series regardless of what happened in Game 1, you're not recovering from that. You're not recovering from that against this team the way they were playing because that is, so this team comes into that game. They're already on like hyper drive offensively, right? And now, okay, man, this is a tough spot. You put them in. So what do they do? They don't have a 44 to 11 run that actually kicked their overall hyper drive into another level for the rest of the series. So because they had to find it like in that moment, I look, I don't have this all that's in front of me. Now, I had it before the game notes going into Game 4 the other night when they swept, but it was like number one in the, in all the playoff teams in, in fast break points per game. Number one in three points shooting percentage overall, number one in field goal percentage. They were one or two offense, I think one two offense rating, one defense rating in phrase verse. I was kept flipping it back and forth every time they play a game. But top two either way on both ends of the floor, they were dominating points in the paint. They were number one in second chance points like every way you can get it offensively, they're getting it. And it's even more, even more than that, even more than a number, just sitting there watching them the connection between each other. It's special. It's something special that they've got going on right now. They have lost two games in the postseason in which CJ McCollum hit the last second shot to beat them by one point. Or this team is very, very possibly could be 12 and 0 instead they're 12 and 2 because of CJ McCollum playing great at the beginning of the Atlanta series. But once they figured out how they wanted to play, they haven't looked back and it's another long layoff for them, you know, going to be incredibly fresh when the final side. And if this thing ends up going seven, these teams are going to get Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, three days off. Mixers sitting there again for a couple of so week and a half, exactly they're sitting there, waiting. Now the difference is in this last series, they were waiting and then you had to come into the garden. You're fully coming off of their seven game series, the Boston had to come into the garden right away. That'll not be the case in this time. The nicks are going on the road one way or another. So it's going to be a little bit different environment for that game one where you set the tone. But regardless, I think it'd be foolish for any person to watch the nicks right now and not say that they absolutely could envision them being NBA champions. This is all said and done. The two McCollum shots reminiscent of the O1 Lakers would have gone undefeated if not for the OT game that I ever send the step over game, right? Right. I was 17 words when their first 15 had a chance to go 16 to know that was Katie's first year. And that team was incredible. And that game for and Cleveland was just atrocious, officiating game. And just a weird game where you just everything felt wrong about it. But they really had a 16 to no, you know, nobody's done that. And then I look at the next and it's like, yeah, they're like two CJ McCollum shots away from being 12 and 0 right now, which is a whole other level of of everything. So you mentioned this earlier, but I think it's important because I haven't gotten to see it in person and you're sitting there courtside watching it. Did they they've passed all the eye test chemistry? They have the secret on selfishness, guys pulling for each other. It seems like they checked every one of those boxes. What did you see as you were sitting there? 100% they do the chemistry, the what's being said to each other in whatever, you know, moments of adversity you've had within a game or if they're not playing as well as they want to, the leadership that's coming in the huddles, the way that guys are respecting each other if they've got a voice for what they want to do. But the most impressive thing about it is, I'd watch this team now. I don't know. We did two of the Philly, New York games we did, obviously all four of the Cleveland games. So that's six we did one of the Atlanta game. We did the game in Atlanta when they went up 61 points. So that was pretty impressive, but so we called that game. So I've seen them now seven times, I think in the postseason and the here's what I tell you, they are not ever missing the next pass that's supposed to be made. It's made every time like every every time I call a game, I mean, it's like every third trip up the floor, I'm thinking to myself, just the way my mind works at ball should have gone here. That should have been reversed. That guy's open. That ball needs to go there because it would have led to this. That roller needs to be hit on the short park. I don't say that at all with the next, it's every single time it goes with supposed to not a lot of that is they're playing with this is surge up the floor and you can see what it did to the past. The calves literally just stopped running. They're just like this is just it was a real big guys. I mean, it really was, you know, you think about it, Bill, they had what was a 25 fast break points and a half in a half, the record for a playoff game is 38, they had 30 at the end of the third quarter. They could have had 35 if they wanted to keep running. They could have 45 if they ran the entire game for whatever reason, but obviously you're not going to do that in a game like that. So they didn't get to the record, but like it, and it's obviously that was a lot about the calves and just a lack of commitment, man, to turn and sprint, run back, match up. And they just knew they were overwhelmed and it was, it is what it is, but it's not just them that they did it to they did the same thing to the, at the end of the Atlanta series, they did the same thing to the sixers and they broke, they broke three teams in a row. They really did. I mean, and yet that's the thing you're watching happen right before your eyes. You're seeing the competitive will be taken away with what they're doing now the most shocking one for me by far was Atlanta series because that is a three two series very much up in Atlanta. Atlanta is at home for a game six. You're like, okay, you know, we might get a seventh game out of this right away in the first round. Of course, there's a lot of tension still about the mix and they were down to one at one point and they were up 45 points in the first half, in the first half. So you're like, okay, this team has, they've got waves that they're hitting you with where every single read is perfect. Every cut is with intent. Everything they're doing right now is like literally like if you're any coach at any level man, this is what you want your team to look like offensively because they're just, they're just doing everything on point, on time for each other. And then at the end of it, which you never know if you're going to get, they're finishing it with shot making, like that's the one thing you can play beautiful basketball and not shoot well. They're doing that too every single game. So and that's just what it looks like. And their defense has been just swarming because again, teams have let go of the rope because they're getting just smashed. And so now they get careless with the ball as well. And it looks like this, you know, piranha tank and they're just grabbing the ball and going and it's amazing how fast these games are just turning into an inferno for the other team where it's like a not winnable in a period of six minutes. That's what they've been doing game after game and that's like been the most impressive thing of all. Well, and they have an incredible crowd. And then on the road, they're now traveling like Red Sock style with, it felt like it was half the fence of that Cavs game. What was the crowd like in game one? Because it felt like ESPN almost had to lower the crowd mics just so we could hear the announcement. answers. There were some fan videos that came from that game where it was like 10 out of 10 deafening. Yeah. Cause I've been in situations like that with those cans on where the crowd is coming through the cans and you almost can't even hear anything. How loud was it? We're doing the open on the court, you know, myself, Mike Green, Richard Jefferson about to do the open. We're standing shoulder to shoulder. And I was having a difficult time hearing Mike Green. So, you know, fortunately, I kind of knew the question. So I just watched his lips. And when he stopped moving his lips, I started talking, you know, because I got to knew what the question was, but yeah, it was, it was on that level. And then it got real nervous in there. That's the game one. Yeah, calves took it to them. And it was like nervous energy. And it didn't, at one point, it like didn't feel necessarily like the garden in a playoff game. They were waiting for a run that never came until it happened in that stretch. When they, you know, he just kept getting one on one against harden over and over. And it took six incredibly difficult shots that he got. Well, I'd say four incredibly difficult to like sort of tough, four really tough shots. And they were determined to stay on with three point shooters, let this guy go. After six in a row, the lead's been cut in half. And there's enough time to win the game. Now they started making decisions. Oh, do we run a guy out of halfway out of them? What do we do? The rotations weren't good. And it shamed his dreams, bridges hit a couple of threes. And the rest is history. But there was, there was a lot of nervousness in there. But I'll tell you this, Bill, we'll say this. When Brunson started making those shots, you're still down 18, 16, 14. It felt to me like that crowd knew right then they were going to win that game. Right. Because the history with the guy that they've watched them do it 20 times. We just needed this. We would waiting hanging on the edge. We were so loud early. And then man, they jumped us in the third quarter. And it's like, wow, we got to lose this game. It was a little bit of that in the third quarter. They were just waiting. Give us one, like eight, oh, run. And we're going to be fine. And that's what he did. He didn't know what's funny about that. I believe it again. Brady was like that. He got to that point as a QB where you could be down the whole game. And, you know, they go for it on fourth and one, the other team and screwed up. And I'm like, you're giving us the ball back. Oh my God. Brady's close. You just kind of knew. I know. And it feels like the next are like, wow, you're letting us hang around. Brunson's going to do you realize what's about to happen? Because he's hit that point. What do we do with him? There's, there's been very few little guards like this in the history of the week who have been able to be the guy on the team that took a team of the finals. He's never been considered a top five or six guy in the week. He made second team on B.A. this time around. I think we all thought incredible clutch player. Yeah. Could you win four straight playoff rounds of them? Probably not. And now he's kind of, trying to knock it on the door of like that top four, top five in the league just because of what's happening. I, is there, can you think of another player in your career, playing in the league, announcing, talking about it? Is there another player that you can think of who's been like him? There's not a comparison for him for this reason. Other guys that have been smaller type guards that are your team's highest volume shot taker leading scorer. That's a hard way to, to go about it. If, if you got a guy that's, you know, under six, six even, that's like your point guard ish that takes all, most of the shots and like, yeah. Okay. There hasn't been, and here's why he's different than those other guys. Most of those other guys, lightning quick, right? And, and so they play a certain way that you're like, okay, that you can see how you get escape ability. He doesn't, he doesn't have that. Now he's got a, he's got a shifty nist that he can shake you and get by you because he's got to set you up. But you think about it. And I think it's a great, great lesson for young players. If you're not the most, necessarily the most athletic, because I would call his game a grounded game. He's got a grounded offensive game. If you, if you're kind of one of those guys that's got that. So here's what you have to master, footwork, balance, get strong, get in the weight room, footwork, balance, strength, and then the last component that you can't teach that he has is a certainty of in himself, of what the result is going to be. I think Jalen Brunson is more certain in, especially in big spots when he goes up to release the basketball than any player in this league. He is the most certain of where that ball is going to end up. And, and that is incredible because he's not going to shake you entirely. He's not blowing by you and getting it to the glass before anybody can react. He's not getting to an area in the floor and elevating 38, 40 inches for a mid-range pull up or a lean back. He, he's not doing that. He's a grounded offensive player that you still can't stop because he uses his strength, footwork, balance, IQ, and then at the end of it, he's so sure of himself. Yeah. It's, it's, that's the really, to me, the final component sets the park. He is one of those rare players that like the brighter the lights, that's, that's what he's kind of been built for his entire life. This is what he knows. And so he was the perfect player that the next acquired at the time. We weren't sure is this the perfect player that they just acquired because you didn't really know it wasn't his team yet when he left Dallas. Now it was his team and like, okay, let's see what this looks like. And man, this is what it looks like. And the guys, by the way, shoots 46% or up. I think every single year. So he's a smaller guard that's way more efficient than most guys his size have ever been in this league. There's a sustainability with how he does it. Because this has been four years now and it feels like he's just getting slightly better each year. Because like the one great Isaiah Thomas season with the Celtics, the second Isaiah Thomas, when he had 29 in game, he was an MVP candidate. They made the, they made the conference finals. But you're watching it. Like man, he's going to get hurt. He's just flying to the basket, right? And he's like this little guy going against these big dudes and over and over again felt like he was flying in the back basket support. I always felt watching it. Like, ah, there's like a shelf life with this. I don't see how you can keep playing this way. Brunson's more, almost moves more like Yokech where it's like, I feel like he can do this for 10 years. This is all like footwork and confidence and know how. So when I think about the guys, there's nobody to compare him to. But he's got pieces of different great guys from over the years, right? Like Isaiah was the toughest guy in that piston scene, right? That was a bad boy piston. He was the toughest guy. But also like in the end of games, he knew he could take over and score. I don't remember seeing Oscar Robertson. I was too young. But they always talked about the way he controlled the pace of a game and just slowly painstakingly got his spots. That's what made him special. So there's guys. But to watch a six foot one guy who can control a game with his footwork basically, who's the toughest guy on his team. And then you hear Mike Brown say this week that Dunkin and Courier, the only two people he's ever seen as leaders like that. And those are the two best leaders of the past 35 years in the league that everybody talks about. Like if you have this guy, you have a culture, the entire time you're there. So you have that too. It's just, it's an all time signing. It's one of the great frage and signings in the history about it. I mean, they're talking, listen, there's a lot of people now in New York and you see it all the time online or conversations or podcasts, whatever. The topic comes up greatest next of all time. Just played himself in that conversation to the point where if he wins this, he's able to win this and he puts up the kind of typical jail and Brunson numbers in an NBA finally. This guy average is like 30 or something and an NBA finals and they upset San Antonio Oklahoma City, which I mean, it's as big of an upset now as it would have been, but I'm saying, these are both teams at one north of 60, right? And they he's able to pull that off and also doesn't have home court advantage in doing that. And he goes in and he shoots 50% from the field. And average is 30. And they win a title. I can't even, I can't even know like where does 53 years of baggage. Where does you shoot historically if that happens? It's been 53 years, you know, 27 since they just got to the finals. You know, so he's a special player, man, they got the right guys around him, give, they give Leon Rose in that group a lot of credit, man, for what they did and the pieces that they went out and got even a guy like Bridges, who he gave up a lot for and he was getting beat up at times this year. And certainly in that Atlanta series, you know, the game before this whole streak started. Remember, he had no points at four turnovers in game five of that series. I'm sorry, he gave three of that series. They go out to one. And it's completely turned around for him. So even even him and he's figured out where to go on the court. That's for him, which I felt like that took two years. And here's why that that subtle change you made to their offense with cat. And look, it's his assistant was spiked in Atlanta series. They're having quite as high sense. There's no doubt he's touching the ball more. His shots are down. His scoring is down. It's interesting, but he feels way more important because he's touching the ball 25 30 more times a game. But and so what that has done from a bridges standpoint is he's really good at week side, like getting a little brush screen and then curling and slashing through the lane and catching some of these passes from towns or doing that continued run to the other side. And then he's that guy that will catch the ball and immediately catch you put it down for one room for 18 foot pull up. His natural motion now within the spacing they have is so much more suited to him than standing around him. around waiting and watching high ball screen 45 times a game and hope it it's going to come your way. That's not the kind of player he is. He's the kind of players now he's moving the entire game. And that's what their offense looks like now without a lot of play calls, by the way, it's just spacing and putting guys in the right spot at the start and then make reads. And it's really suited his game. So it's not a coincidence that all of a sudden he started shooting well, not well is an understatement of century that he's doing this. It's because it's offense now is much more suited to his skill set. And so he looks comfortable and confident. OG's been great for them, obviously, cat, you know, Josh Hart is like the probably the heart and soul of what they do with what he gives up every night to try to win. It's been it's been awesome to watch a man. They're just they're just absolutely on fire. And that's the biggest question, whoever they get in the finals. What are you going to do to slow this machine down because that's what they've turned into offense with their machine? I still don't completely understand the cat piece of it. Just because he's was in the 2015 draft, he's not like a 27 year old player at this point. He's been in the league for so 11th or 12th season. And it was like, this is just who he is. He's going to get dumb fouls. There's going to be games when it's just going to he's going to seem upset that he's not touching the ball enough. He's going to get beaten on the glass every once in a while. He's going to be defensively out. He hasn't been any of those things. He's been like additive, he's you know, he'll go six for nine, get 13 rebounds, maybe two turnovers. So I've won dumb foul each half. But this is the most I've enjoyed watching him and it's like basically because he's been relegated into being this awesome supporting guy, which maybe should have been his destiny all along. Well, I think what's he, what he's done is transforming himself by the way he's playing into now. You're looking at me. Go that's a winning player. That guy you could 100% as your center and so you weren't you didn't know exactly what he was. He was a lot of talent. And he was kind of multi-dimensional. A big dude that could play some power basketball, but really can shoot it. But you didn't know. Here's what I think the greatest testament to what I just said about how he's labeled now. This season, all year, man, like every time we saw the next saw Mike Brown, like we were asking for the game because Kat was the number one topic of conversation in New York surrounding the mix because it was like up and down offensively, sometimes it seemed very included, sometimes it was less like, man, he doesn't really fit. He doesn't seem like he's even happy like in this offense, like running this offense. He didn't seem happy. They changed it. They changed it. It did season and then really changed it into playoffs. Here's though what I wanted to say about him, despite all of that bill, every night the guy rebounds, and it was like death taxes and 13 rebounds from Carl Lenton Towns. And so that helped them continue to win and it's how you end possessions by securing the defensive glass. So that was there every night. And this guy is not a guy that's like gobbling up soft rebounds. He's not getting, you know, sex a game off Miss Freeper. He gets physical tough rebounds in traffic where he used his body and he has been this physical presence for them in that starting lineup defensively, even on the nights when he only gets eight, nine shots. And that's that's changed. I think the way a lot of people maybe have viewed him, this guy is now like a great fit for what they're doing. And I just I just love those kind of stories because he's a he's a he's a great person. Like he's can't wait. So he's raised well like he's he's polite. He's just a good dude. And he was like, he had a lot of talent, you're kind of just wondering what is his what is his ultimate label in this league? And I think this is like now the perfect situation for him to be appreciated and admired for like what he is capable of doing. And he's he's been just a big part of this. But the good thing is they don't have to get it from any one of these dudes on any given night because they're all doing it. So it could one guy one guy can have it off night. It's okay. Everybody else right now is in such rhythm. It doesn't matter. Well, the other thing about when you talk about the appreciation, that's the other thing at stake for these guys and yeah, I haven't I've say everybody's been talking about the next for the last couple of days, but you win the title. You can see it with the guys who didn't win the title, who didn't even like really make the playoffs that are still invited to these games that are part of the past with the next guys like. It's the fun. Marbury. I don't think he won a playoff series. Yeah, obviously made the final starts did, but if these guys win, towns could be strolling back in there 35 years from now, it can be 70 years old. Oh, there's no standing ovation. Like that's what that's that's some of the stuff that's at stake here. I mean, they're you kidding me, they're at they're at the place now where like Jose Alvarado would get that treatment because he's so popular there with like his energy and like what he does. So and I'd by the way, to your point, like I don't I've never seen that many former players showing up at games at the same time ever in the league. That's just not. Yeah. I mean, the cell picks have them. How do you 15 guys there the other night from like different errors and stuff? It's really cool. Man, they're all kind of vibing on this and the city is obviously just so electric right now. I don't know what that city's going to look like. They actually pull this off and win it. If it's I don't know how you get out of the arena. We bring fortunately knows all the tunnels and stuff. So you can get out of there. If you have to after the game, although he'll probably stay there and be, you know, back there, you know, with because he's a look, he's the guy's a Nick fan. You know, he's a most unbiased broadcaster I've ever seen when he calls Nick's games. He's every bit as enthusiastic for the other team or whatnot, but he calls Nick's games. He's in life. Life long Nick fan. Everybody knows that. And you know, here he is with an opportunity. He's going to be calling his first finals as the lead play by play guy with the Nick's in the finals. So it's kind of a interesting dynamic to it as well. Yeah, the thing is the best of the business, I'm lucky to be sitting next to him. Yeah, he's been a Nick's fan since age seven. But I think, I think you geek out the Nick's fan side of you geeks out before and after the games, right? You're doing the game. You're just doing your job. You're almost like you're an airplane pilot. You're just you're moving out of the levers. He's setting you guys up. You're just lost in the game. But I'm sure there's got to be moments when he's just like, holy shit. So it's the fucking finals. We made it. I'm here. I know. We have a chance to win. Jesus. What's crazy is for all Nick's fans think, there's like how quickly they just dispatched of the conference. Yeah. Like, like, that's the thing that you're going into this, you're going into this year, the three seed. So you're, you know, I mean, but you think you got a chance or like, okay, you know, Detroit unproven. They got some offensive issues. The Boston is missing. They got to take them back late, but like, they're not quite the same. We're a three seed. But we have a real chance. And then what happens? The one and two get taken out for you. So you don't need to deal with the one and the two. And now you find yourself with home court advantage and you lose Indiana, who's your nemesis. They're not even in there to begin with. They're dealing with stuff. So, so, so like, and now you go, okay, going into the playoffs, we're sure Nick fans were thinking like, hopeful, but, but nervous. Like you would be like, we don't know exactly how it's going to go to like completely dismantling the Eastern Conference. Like, just such clockwork, the first round knockouts night after night. And here they are, sitting there with all this time off waiting to play whoever's coming out of the West. You know, sometimes that's just how it goes. I even feel like the 2024 Celtics two years ago. I don't know if they would have beaten Denver, but we never found out because Denver never made it. And the way it just lined up was like perfect for them. Sometimes that's what happens, you know, like Milwaukee in 2021 where the nets just fall apart as that serious happens, Phoenix somehow ends up in the finals. Davis gets hurt and then just a couple things, a couple things go your way and that's what happens when it's your year. The nicks have been healthy. They jelled at the perfect time and it feels like that's really that's the key to it. Like, they're so rare. It's so rare for a team to hit perfect rhythm. They're absolute peak and beyond probably any any reasonable expectations for what their peak was. They actually smashed through what their ceiling was at this time of the year, at exactly the right time that you have to have it and to do it now and then sustain it series after series with, you know, one more series to go. We'll see we'll see how it goes, but they got some work to do left in the West. Well, you get to call the games. Hopefully you'll finally get a good series. Talk about getting boned over with with drama and a playoffs there. Did you did you call one good game? So I think it's Richard's fault. I don't think you should take the blame. I think it's Richard's fault. We did the Nick comeback game against against Cleveland. Oh, that was good. Okay. So you're one for seven. Yeah. Because we call the whole conference finals. We have that. Yeah. I forgot. So you got a good one. I'm trying to think we did. We did. We did a game, a Philly Boston game when it beat came back and they beat Boston and it beat was great in the second half. Was that game five? Game five. Yeah. I didn't really enjoy that game. That was a good game at least. Like it was it was some drama to that. I'm trying to think, um, and maybe there's maybe there's one more. But no, for the most part, the Brunson game was awesome. So you at you at least had one good one. Do you? I mean, you just, you know, it was the greatest greatest comeback in other circumstances in the history of leagues. So yeah, that was that was like, we still actually the next morning, I was in the hotel room in New York and I was still, I was still kind of really processing what I just watched. Yeah. Because of how big they were down with that amount of time to play, um, and what Brunson did, you know, and the beginning of that run, take a look at the first two or three shots he hit. They're incredibly difficult shot. He had one off the backboard that I had. I have no idea how it didn't go flying off the board. I know that you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, how did he even have touch on that? The ball hit the white stripe on the top on the very top from the right off the right link. And he's shooting it this way. Exactly. I just don't know how that went in. Yeah. I remember that. I remember that. Then that happened live. And then I got to do the replay on that particular shot. And now as I'm talking, it's super slow mo high death. And so you're watching this ball. And I'm like, it's just kind of going up and up because the first time you saw it live I wasn't exactly sure where it hit. I know it was up there. And then you see the replay didn't hit the white stripe on the top of the backboard from that angle and went straight through. That's when you're like, are you kidding me? That's still they're down like 18 when he hit that. Great. And you're like, okay, that's what it took to get down 18. How you going to finish this off? So just it's just been unreal. Quickly and Cleveland. Yeah. They announced that I can send in the front office is coming back today. They're set up now for a LeBron comeback that I don't think will happen, but at least on paper it could be discussed. They have to get into a luxury tax. Whatever team we just watched is not a team that's going to win four straight playoff rounds. So they're going to have to figure out, how do we pay less money? How do we ship stuff? They're stuck with hearted now because they obviously made some wink, wink come to us. We'll blow up the last year or a deal. We'll give you a shorter deal to save some money. Just a move, if you had to pick Mobley, Alan or Mitchell as the move for them to reset the team and maybe try to shed some money and move the roster in a different direction. Who is the guy you would look at? The guy look out to move or to keep to move around. If you had to get rid of one, what makes, who makes the least sense for them or would you cut ties with Mitchell at this point? Like, what would you do? I don't think I'll cut ties with Mitchell. No, I still think, I still think when you have a guy like that, and even in this series, he first, I don't think he was right. I think he had something going on with his groin. He was limping a little bit. I think you guys were talking about that a bunch like he didn't have the left sometimes. I don't think, I'm trying to think, I don't think he had a dunk in the series. Okay. You're talking about a guy that's like, he's no, he's going to get one or two of those rim attacks of game where he takes off, right? He ties a tomahawk on somebody, he didn't really have any of it. He's still weird because he still had a pretty good numbers for the series overall. Like the only guy that did, you know why he was, because he was worn out from the 14 games it took to beat the two teams. They were better at that. That's like their fault. I think it was a big factor, Bill. And I think, you know, it's, it's, it's a big factor. He played every other day for like a month when you didn't have to, you should have won those series. And it was a fault. Yes. But it still is a factor and it, you don't know how much of a factor to you run into a fresh team like they did. Then you're like, it was obvious. So you would look at Mobley or Alan. Probably Mowley. Probably Mowley. Probably Mowley. And I think I was a little disappointed in this series just because like he shoots decent percentage from the field, they'll have some games where he does decent rebounding numbers, but he just has stretches of games where he just, you don't notice them. Yeah. And what? He's four years in. He's 25 years old. And you're like, you just wanted that next progression. Now he's a little bit better, three point shooter, he's probably much better than when he came in the league. But he's not like he's out there shooting 40%. He's in the mid 30s. He can make him. He made like one or two, I think, and probably every game in this series. That's great. He added that. But like, it's just the impact and the force that you wanted to play with for the entire game because he has a lot of talent. And he hasn't really been able to kind of find that gear, so maybe it would be him. I don't think it would be Mitchell. Would you trade him for Janice? Oh, for sure. Okay. For sure. Because of the where Mitchell is in the stage of his career and being stuck with Hardin too now for two years. So now it's like you're going to have a two year window. I don't think that it would make sense for me in certain situations with the honest, depending on where it was. It does in this case because like that window is like now, like every year is now going forward. So that would be the immediacy that you need in a guy that's built that could get you through, you know, deep playoff run and you're going to play with force against any defense and all those things. And he's won a championship. That would be probably, you know, a place that I would see. Yeah. That makes sense. So if we sat in a log cabin and talked about this for two weeks straight, I think we would come to this conclusion. How are we going to win four straight rounds of our guards of Mitchell and Hardin? How are we going to defend? There's too many good perimeter guys in the league. How are we going to be able to defend these guys when we need both those guys on the floor and one of them at all times is going to be exposed to Mitchell's side of the better than Hardin? One of the things I did post boredom on them on a sports radio station in Cleveland and it was, what do they need to do? Like what's what's it look like, assuming you're going forward with, you know, Mitchell and Hardin. So they've got to get much more athletic on the wings. They've got to get tougher guys. They've got to get, you know, you maybe have to sacrifice some of the guys that can shoot for you because they didn't even shoot that in this series at all. Right. So you need to have some guys that with a little bit better switchability factor, a little bit better where you have options as a coach and what matchups you want to see and guys that can run and get after a new open floor and play with that aggressive force because you're seeing the teams that are lasting in this league. They've got some guys like that and they didn't really have a lot of that. They got the two bigs. You play well together. Both talented guys, the two guards, a bunch of shooters, role players for the most part beyond that. But there was an overall physical toughness that they were not bringing to the dicks that it was so obvious. And you mean you saw it other times with Cleveland, but it was really exposed in that series. And so look, they've already made a decision to move forward with Kenny Atkinson and they're going to go from there. And now I think they got a re-tool to support the cast and probably move one of those, one of those bicks. I mean, the flip side would be it's a 30 team league and they finished fourth. I don't know when you start talking yourself into that side of the narrative. I just don't think Mitchel and Harden, you could win four straight series of that. And I don't really love Alan and Moby together either. So I would probably get a little more creative. All right. How you feeling about the commanders decent? I'm just talking to you. Just talking to you. I just talking to you. I always feel amazing. It's favorite part, right? Favorite part of the year. It's the greatest time of the year. Schedule comes out. A fan of a team that has struggled with that long. Yes, man. Schedule release. Although we had a tough schedule early. Schedule release. And then I'm every day I'm reading about, you know, the OTAs and I was reading about these guys in mini camp and whose, whose impressing and styles looks amazing apparently. And he's like already the leader of the defense. He's going to be calling the plays as a rookie. I'm like, this is all the stuff I want to hear. So really excited. But it will always come down to the health of Jay Daniels, end of story. I'm just excited. There hasn't been a story about my Patriots in a week. So hopefully we can keep that going. Have fun. Well, and I think the one thing we're going to get Bill and I don't like making big predictions, but I do feel really good that I know we've had a lot of lopsided games blow outs, maybe in the postseason, we wanted more on a given night. I think the finals are going to be incredible, whoever comes out of the West. I don't see that being a five game series with like three lopsided games. I just, I don't see it. The next don't go away. The teams coming out of the West, they don't go away. They fight. They're talented. They're deep. They defend. So I think we could be set up for this incredibly epic NBA finals. And all the rest of the nicks get, you know, last round this round, like you can't sleep on that either. If this OKC San Antonio goes seven, they play Thursday, they play Saturday, they have a couple of days. No, all of a sudden they're going again, and the nicks are just, you know, getting healthy, running plays, having bonding pizza nights. All right, Tim Legler. So how do you say out of the rev for me? Please give me a call. Give him a congratulations. Good to see you. Like coming back, take a break, come back with Brian Koppelman right after this. 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If you want to get a little wacky with a longer shot, so I'm definitely going to be doing something for game six and probably zagging against whoever lost in game five, zagging the other way for game six, because I think this series just, it just wreaks of seven. But we'll see what happens. I will have that pick on Thursday morning for game six. When I bet about the Fando, it's a brand I trust, easy to build my NBA bets on Fando. I know I'm getting great. It great odds payouts on my parlay's booths every day. And get your winnings instantly on Fando, a Fando player game. All right, my friend Brian Coppelman is here. I just want to mention he didn't want to come on. And I reminded him, you've come on so many times, stayed him back to the ESPN days. to talk about the next. And it was always sad circumstances, unhappy, why did God do this to me? I don't understand. We talked about our friend Goldman, who passed away in the late 2010s. The last finals he saw was 1999, missed all this. And that was what I said to you, Coppelman. I was like, you know what? You're about to make the finals. This is the most fun next team of this century by far. It's a really special team. Even regardless of what happens in the finals, and you have to come on and talk about it. So you're here. Yeah, we made the finals. We're not about to. We made the finals. It's very exciting. I didn't want to come on, because I don't want to, I don't want to jinx it. I really just want to be the, I'm here as just a, I'm such a fan. Look, my first memory, because this is like you and your dad, you know, and you and your kids. My very first memory is a human being, is being with my father who died three years ago, but being with my dad at the Knicks, I was turning five years old. And that's literally the first memory I have is Madison Square Garden with my dad watching the Knicks. That's how important this team is to me. It's, it's, you know, in the fabric of my life, it's the best thing about sports is these connect, and the worst thing is these connections we have to these teams, what they mean because of the memories we share with people. Like these times get your corny, get me corny, and I can't help it because I'm literally thinking of a communist, this guy named Bob, Bobby Angler, who grew up across the street from me, and he would wear a what Frazier's number and I'd wear all my roles number, and we'd play one-on-one all day and all night long as Earl and Clyde, when we were little kids, and like we still, he's four years old, and we still text each other when the Knicks are in the playoffs. Like from when we were seven, and he was, you know, 10, and I was seven, he was turning 11. It's like, it matters to my college friends who I went to games with, some of whom I still am in touch with, some of whom I don't talk to that much, they're texting me, not 'cause I'm a special Knick fan, but because we're all Knick fans and cares so much. And so yeah, I don't want to jinx anything. I'm just so happy to be in the finals. Every single person involved with the Knicks has done an incredible job. And Jalen Brunson's the truth. - So this segment is brought to you by new era, ironically, because this feels like a new era for Knicks fans, you think of the 2000s and the 2010s, and all the crummy things that happen. And then Leon and Wes take over, all start weekend, 2020, a month before COVID. And with really one goal, how do we basically recreate the 2004 pistons with Rashid and Billups and all these dudes? How do we think outside the box and try to put a container together if we're never gonna have, if we're never gonna look out the lottery? Nobody wanted to just do the lottery thing again, 'cause the Knicks had done that a million times. How do we think outside the box? When did you start believing in the vision? What year did you think this is actually something that was gonna work? Well, in the beginning, I didn't know, right? And you know what happened is, I mean, you were involved in part of what made me the believer was, I ended up taking a walk with Wes and we called you. And you were like, this guy, these guys, they mean it. And Wes, as you know, is, look, Leon's obviously a visionary with, figuring out how to put this team together. But Wes is this incredible connector of people and built this belief system. So I think Wes was going to find all these people who were like lifelong Knicks fans and trying to convert them into becoming believers. But it's about all of the things that are different now, just trust us, like we get it. We had the right vision in place. He would convey that they really cared so much like about turning this around. And they kind of put their own net, like they would say, like judges, based on how we do. You know, so many people in those roles want to run from responsibility. And I felt right from the beginning that those guys were saying, no, we know what we're saying we can do and we're gonna do it. But I can't, I don't, I look, there's a lot of anyone who's a sports fan of a team that has lost for a really long time or not lived up to the promises, knows that it starts to feel a little bit like post-traumatic stress. And you don't, you just are so accustomed to getting disappointed and hurt. And it is such a joy. So like for instance, the Jalen Brunson move. - Yeah. - So many people want to say, oh, I knew it. I'll be honest, I had no idea that that was a smart thing until I started watching him. And by the end of the first season, it was so clear that we had a guy who was one of the smartest people in the league, one of the true leaders in the league. I mean, a guy who is available to fans, like communicates, but his emotional range is that of like the greatest leaders in sports. - Well, do you see what Mike Brown said today? - Yeah, you told me. I mean, said, you saw it before I saw it. Yeah. - Yeah, they asked him about Jalen Brunson as a leader and he compared him to the Steph Curry and Tim Duncan. Two other guys have been around now. Anyone in basketball would say those have been the two best culture setter leaders that we've had basically in the last 35 years since magic. And for him to mention those two guys as a comparison, I was like, whoa, that's not faint praise. That's like a real thing to say. - It's so great for something to be like a positive surprise when it comes to the Knicks. You know, you're right when you talked about 1999 and then sort of the years of like the angry Knicks fan. And I know I personified that sometimes. You know, I wrote about, I mean, for you, I wrote a lot of articles about being angry, about being happy when Spree came back and made the jokes, you know, that signed it to the owner, but I'll tell you something. Like, this has turned me around completely. First of all, I never stopped going. I've had tickets since 1989. I had one ticket, my friend Alan Havie had the other and Havie and I then Havie moved to California. 12 years in when I could afford both tickets and I've had the two seats since, but I've had seats since '89. And so this is just an incredibly meaningful, great thing. And yeah, if this is as far as it goes, it's a win to get back to the finals. I started taking my son Sam right when he was the age. I was when I started going four or five years old. He's had some, you know, we've had long walks back. I wrote about the long walks. - It was a run for him. - Yeah, 'cause it was basically the reverse situation of what I had with my dad. - Yeah. - I had my dad and we're winning titles the first year we went and we had Larry Bird and meanwhile, poor Sam, he had nothing. He had the Carmella getting around two once in Los Angeles for three weeks. - Yeah, he just watched all of these disappointments and he's still, you know, where's the Knicks had almost every day and no matter, you know, he's just a diehard fan. And I do think that these guys have put together an incredible squad. I mean, you think about that day that that Jaylin, I love that this clip resurpses all the time, but you rarely see an athlete in such an open moment. Even in this era, Phil, such an unguarded moment is when he found out. - Oh, the Josh Hart trade? - Yeah, yeah. - And almost the opposite of the way people when the luket thing happened and people were getting it, when he found out that Josh Hart was traded to the Knicks, it's almost like he knew all of this. - Yeah. - Like he started jumping up and down 'cause he knew, oh, you put my best friend, this guy who I know exactly had to make him better, I know I can count on him. He makes me better. He's gonna throw us, 'cause, you know, Josh Hart is such still underrated and he's just so perfect on this team, you know? And the whole team, I mean, even what Mitchell said the other day, right? You got a team of guys who somehow are just parts on their sleeves. You know, Jaylin's the only one who's kind of guarded, even on his own podcast, he's still guarded, he's the leader. But everyone else in the team, they're the opposite of guarded. They just let you know what they're thinking and what they're feeling and they're in it. I mean, even Rick Bronson, who like argue with somebody and yeah, it's really been an incredible thing to watch and you know? - Well, you know, it's so hard to put together a possible championship team without one of the best five guys in the league. 'Cause really the last time that was, the last team that was able to do this was that O4Pistons team. The Nix have nobody, I don't think anybody who's been first team on B.A. So like, let's say, if they win four more, they've been inside of it. - Jaylin got, I think Jaylin got no votes for first team this year. - He was never, he was never gonna, I had a vote. He was never, it was Kader Jaylin for the last spot. Once Luca became eligible, Jaylin was second team, but the Nix were, It was a great day. wasn't a disappointing season, but it wasn't like the greatest regular season either, right? It was, I think there was as many questions as answers heading into the, into the playoffs. They were like seven or one, just to even win the east. I don't think a ton of people were picking them and people really weren't sure. I think what was so shocking was the, the, how this became this like selfless old school Bill Bradley era next time over the last 11 games, like even watching somebody like Towns, just not care about, he's just filled all temps anymore and just, but I'm just here to rebound, make some good passes and not have dumb fouls. And then makes all these incredible shots, but I think, you know, that, yeah, I think this is great. So you say the thing about the top five players, you know, um, well, you could argue if he wins the title, he then becomes a top five player, but nobody thinks that way now player in the league. But I also think what you said about leadership. Maybe it's, he got to be a top, but because if he is the best leader currently, because it's Steph, but they're out of the play, if he is currently like the best leader in a way, the team has taken on his characteristics, meaning the team, his character, really, because he is a guy who will sacrifice, he'll sacrifice his body, he'll keep getting up, he'll keep trying to write, how many fourth quarters has he had after games when he hasn't necessarily shot the ball? Well, and that's, that's the big thing is that I never feel like the nicks are out of a game when they're down 15 because of him. Yeah. I was like, here we go. Okay. And he just, he is a guy, I was, I mean, I asked you this earlier, um, because it is a great thing. The texting, right? You and I have been texting about the nicks since as long as we've had texted the ability to text and known each other over 20 years now. And even I texted you in the first game of the hawk series to be like when Jay, Jaylin had that opening quarter that was so incredible. You know, and, and it's like, uh, this guy, to me, you know, sometimes even nicks fans will get on him. And I don't understand it. They'll say, share the ball. And I, on the one hand, it's part of that thing of feeling like all these years of being disappointed. But when I watched this kid, I don't see a guy who is selfish. I see somebody who knows his job is to take charge of the game and whether that means take charge of it by scoring, take charge of it by making a great pass, take charge of it by taking a charge. He's just willing to do whatever it takes. And I think the other guys see that. Yeah. And they get the charges are a big piece of that too. Yeah. He does, you know, he's not the best defender, but he is in the right places all the time and he fights, which is really, you know, all you can ask for the, the Brunson centric thing, I do feel like something shifted the last three, four weeks, where once, whatever that little wrinkle is of moving towns away from the basket and running stuff through him, it just made them less predictable because I felt like they had the same issues that you'll sometimes see with Luca teams. You always see with the great hardened teams that never made it. The Celtics would get like this. You could kind of predict what they're going to do every play and I think in a series that becomes hard because you're just doing the same thing, seven games in a row and teams get used to it. I felt like what was going out with the Knicks with now, I don't really know what you're going to do. And now you're, you're running as much as possible, you're getting these fast breakpoints that, you know, you would kind of come and go and all of a sudden it felt like this complete team overnight. Well, whatever happened when we were down to one, you know, that's the only time in this playoffs. Got that. You know, I thought we were going to lose game one when we were down in this series, but I didn't think we were going to lose this series, not even for a second. But when we were down to one, I really did feel like I so supported the Mike Brown move, bringing them in. It made total sense to me, but I doubted it when we were down to one. I was like, I don't understand how we got here and then seeing what they did because two one felt bad, right? It felt like the past in a way. And that was the one moment that I wavered. And in the whole thing, like in the last four years, that's like the one moment because once they brought Jalen in, I thought, Wes and Leon have just proven it. They put this squad together. They know. I'm in their hands. But down to one, I became just like all the commentators who take shots at them. And I, you know, I should have, I wish I would have had more faith in that moment, but that was the moment when I was like, what is this, you know, and then though seeing what happened in the next game and the next game, I was like, right, don't ever fucking doubt this guy and this squad. We may not win, Wembee, you know, you got the two, I mean, a lot of people would say the two best players in the NBA. A lot of people already saying Wembee's going down as the best player in the history of the NBA. And it does seem hard, but I have the faith, man, I just totally, I'm full tug McGraw. You got to believe. And now it's time for Eric comp brought to you by new era, the official cap of the NBA. We know today's players are incredible. We know they shaped a lot of the styles of the players watching today. They shaped the game we were watching today. The new era NBA Hardwood classics collection celebrates those iconic moments and the players who made them unforgettable. So we'll put Eric side by side, two thousands. And now I was thinking two, two good ones for this. One is the Fon Castle, who I feel like you could have just easily thrown into the Pacers Pistons 2003, 2004 Bloodbass series that they had. And he could have played for either team and give you like some of it. Steven Jackson was giving you in that series or a little T-Shine Prince, but just, I felt like he'd just sort of been happy in that series. But the big comp, let's go Wembee and Yao. I feel like Yao has just been completely forgotten. Only played eight seasons, his body broke down as it went along, but there was a moment with Yao when we started a wonder, you know, could this guy take over the week someday? I think he got up to probably 25 and 10 at one point, but he was seven foot six. He didn't move like Wembee does. He was a pure center. But had that same kind of overpowering, holy crap, how was anybody going to defend this guy when he was close to the basket? And unlike Wembee, he was just carrying so much more weight. It was harder for him to move up and down when he saw him in person. It was just, it was like, man, I don't know how long this one's going to last. And that's the difference with Wembee. When you watch Wembee in person, even though he's an alien and he's a foot seven, the way he moves is just different, like it doesn't, it just seems there's an athleticism to him. There's a grace to him. He carries his weight the right way, doesn't seem like he's carrying too much weight. But I thought, yeah, there was a moment there when it really seemed like it would have been shocking if Yao didn't win a title. 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But with that said, I do think he has a chance to be the most beloved Nick ever, right? Which is an interesting conversation. Right there with Clyde. Clyde is still so beloved. I got to be honest, that mid 80s Bernard, even though it was a blip, was, but I think he's in the conversation. I just don't think it lasted long enough, but to me it's like Clyde, Bernard, and then Willis because of coming out and dragging his leg around in a game seven. But I think Brunson making the finals, he's, people are at least allowed to have the conversation out. That was a game, April 27th, 1984, my 18th birthday, Bernard against the Pistons. When Isaiah had one of the great games ever, one of the best player games ever, but Bernard had a better game than we won in five. And it was one of the greatest, if you go, like, like that game is available, go watch that game and you'll understand what Bernard King was able to do. That said, you're right. Right now the most beloved nicks are those guys. Jeremy Lynn is one of the most beloved nicks, he really is, but for me, but, and I mean, I'm 60 years old now. I turned 60 this year and I love Jeremy Lynn for what he gave us for those three weeks. But yeah, Chamberlain Brunson, that's the top guy I feel he hit the final stage in in the game one Cleveland game, where they're down 22 and there's seven F minutes left. And it's a wrap, you shouldn't be watching. And normally sometimes when we do the podcast, when we have to go live, I'll text whoever the guest is and our producers are like, "Hey, let's go with three minutes." Like, this game's gonna be done. Did not, as I mentioned that night, did not send the text 'cause it's like, can't at least see what happens here with the next. What was interesting about it is how the crowd, everyone was locked in kind of waiting to see if it would unfold over the next couple of minutes. Like it did with Brunson. - My son said they were recognized the faith. - They were down 18 and they were recognizing what was happening. And that's like the final level of being really great in a situation. - Yeah, they never locked the faith. I did, I didn't think we were coming back. - Really? - It was really an incredible. I didn't think so. - Against James Harden? Well, that's a good point. Oh, can you explain this to me? But Sam never lost faiths off for one second, which I was very proud of him that he didn't lose faith. What do you make of Harden just saying, I still think we're the better team? - I don't know what to say. When people say, after a sweep, when you say that, that almost feels like an IQ test. You could say that if it's a 4-3, and even if it's a 4-2, and you completely blew three of the four, but if you get swept and you roll over in a game for it to the point that the announcer's at halftime bark, it was just clowning them at halftime. Like you can't say you were a better team. - No, what a, I mean, I watched every second of that game last night and watching them just not even, I don't wanna say not care, because their professional athletes, I'm sure they did care, but just they kept getting beat down court over and over and over again on those rebounds. That felt like one of those games when you play in high school when the other team was so much better coach than you. - Yeah. - And you would just be looking behind like, how did that guy get down there again? - Right. I mean, I remember those, I can remember playing in those kind of games and just feeling like, totally they were completely outmaned and outclassed. - It was a wrap. - Yeah, it was a weird one. - This feels like Jalen Brunson, I'm trying to find the sports analog for this guy. He has just the greatest characteristics of so many, he's almost like, he's almost like the way Brad Gilbert would constantly win, and he was four in the world and no one could believe he was four in the world in tennis, but he just would like get to, I mean, he was the time Brad Gilbert was the fourth, number four player in the world. And that may be where this guy finds himself. - Yeah, I remember when you pitched us a 30 episode Brad Gilbert narrative podcast, we had to turn it down. - I still think we should, I think we should, I think Brad Gilbert. - Well, I just want you to co-host and I remember you said, you could only do every other episode. And then I said, well, Mallory do the other ones, and you were like, I don't know if I can lender for that, and then that blew up the whole thing, which was a drag. - Here's the thing with Brunson. And I think you need this when you have the mana baggage that a team like the Knicks have. - Right, you almost need some sort of super natural human being event to make people who are prone just not to believe anymore to switch flip their minds. Right, for the Red Sox, it was Ortiz. It was Ortiz in '04 just the slow realization over the course of those four Yankee comeback games that we had Ortiz and like that, there was something magical about this guy. Brunson, now whether he can keep this going for the finals, we'll see. But Brunson at least has done that for the Knick fans. Where they're not thinking about what's the worst case there because the thing we didn't talk about was that Halberton gave me a year ago where it's like, all the skeletons come out of the poltergeist pool in that game. It's like, wait, I thought we were past this. Oh yeah, we haven't wanted that. - I haven't wanted that. - I was there. I mean, yeah, yeah, that was just brutal. That series almost crushed me, but the truth is, and that's obviously why Tib is gone and that, but that didn't actually dim my enthusiasm for this team. Every move these guys were like, I was upset when they traded Dante because they thought the three guys together was so important, like to have the core from Villanova. And, but they were right. Like they're just right, Leon and Wes are just right a lot. And that is such an odd thing to think about people running this team. - It's not that odd and I wonder, like if I'm an owner, if I was an owner for a losing team, I would have meetings trying to figure out, okay, here are the four teams, the three teams, the two teams that succeeded this year. Why, what are the reasons? And if I'm looking at the next and I'm thinking like, well, how did they put this team together because they hired guys who were like relationships guys. They were guys that in the other business they had, which they're actually player agents, representatives. And they're targeting people from age 15, 16, 17, 18. They're making bets on people. They're trying to, if they're not just looking at talent, they're looking at how somebody behaves what their background was, you know, how, what their work ethic is, how competitive they are. Because ultimately, they're betting on those guys as representatives because they're getting a 10% cut of everything they make, right? - Of course. They're putting on, you wanna bet on like the safest, competitive talents. And that it's not really much different than putting together a team. So if I was an owner, I would be like, who are the other agents we can get? Who else sees the world like this? And of course they could potentially put together a group of people like this. - Well, they really had skin in the game. And I want other thing about Wes. 'Cause you said the thing about, look, Leon's not gonna talk to the press. Don't worry about it, but one of the other things, right, but one of the things Wes does do is he walks around the garden. Wes is a visible presence. And not in a, not in the, I'm shadowing, I'm lingering over the bench to put pressure. No, the other thing where he walks around like, yeah, we have it all on the line. Like he shows himself, you know, so many people hide in the front office and in the back. And they, the second half time comes, they duck into the, Wes is like out there and not just down in the front row. Like he walks around. So the ring in between and talks to people and people shout at him and he engages with people. And I do think, and that may be from being an agent too, right? Being in with people, being comfortable with people, knowing how to make, but it does instill a sense of, oh, these guys have something on the line here. Like, they're saying something about what they're doing. So they put the pieces together, but it's all psychically. - But they also have advantages of, they'd known Brunson forever. 'Cause they were in a shit with their dad. They've known Towns since he was 15 years old. Anonobi was the CIA guy. Like they have real opinions on these guys, 'cause they have a whole background, whereas like if you're just a typical GM, and you're looking at a more like the way you and I would look at it. Like Zacholveen, let's see about, and we're just like on his passport reference. - But Paul, he thinks broke the right way. Like, okay, Anonobi, as you know, his injury, like when, but Anonobi, from the moment he came here, he was so great at any time he was playing in the garden. - Yeah, I don't know how much you felt in the garden. Like the garden loves, they love him. Like we love that guy as a fan, you know, as fans in the garden. But other things, like Bridges showing up with that completely changed jumper last year, and everyone being kind of freaked out. But almost like when Tiger changed his swing, it's like don't worry at the right time. It's gonna peak. And then like, 'cause it was the jumper was ugly and he missed so much, but he knew what he was doing, because like, think about how it's paying off now. So it's almost like everything that's happened, these guys really just all know what they're doing and it's very humbling, you know, it's the thing you wish some of the commentators would understand, like sometimes these experts, sometimes they do know something like the people in the game. And, you know, I don't wanna call out a certain self-identified big New York Knicks fan who's on ESPN, always saying a lot of bullshit about the Knicks, but it seems like these people do know what they're doing, and Jalen Bronson is the real thing. And we're in the championship. - Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new Grippy Setting Mist from Maybelline New York. Jell-to-Mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all-day comfy grip. Try new Grippy Setting Mist from Maybelline New York. - Maybe it's Maybelline. - Can't believe it. I'm happy for you and say me in the whole compliment family. I'm also excited that I'm one of the 15 pods you've been on this month. Thanks for fitting me in the rotation. - I hadn't done a pod in like two years, and then Cody Rhodes asked me to do a podcast, and as you know, his dad, second favorite wrestler of all time, and I love Cody. - Gotta do that. - Gotta do the pod, and then once I did it, another friend asked. But listen to me, Bill Simmons, it's always, who put me in the podcast game to start? - Wait, I have one last thing before. - Much to the show. - No, I don't wanna, I'm not saying about it yet. You got an act, you have a new Vegas show. - Yes. - Guys, there was all this stuff for it in about it last week. - We start shooting in seven seconds. - You and Levina are back in Vegas. - We are back in Vegas. - Everyone in America wants to know what part I'm playing. They've been, it's been, everywhere I go, people are asking me. - I heard about the boys having a new show in Vegas. So you're just gonna have a cameo. Is it gonna be like, you're playing a blackjack dealer or are you gonna play yourself? Like what, what, I don't know. I'm in your hands. - I mean, let's figure it out. What do you think? Do you wanna, you wanna put on a pork pie hat and be your gambler down in his luck? Do you wanna be a dealer who's, take a look? satisfaction in someone like a struggling actor who used to be famous, but got a gambling problem. And now I'm just kind of, I don't know. I'm open for anything. Yeah, you know, we'll do. We'll put that version on the old show. And then, right? We'll put it on the old show. And then, yeah, you can totally, you can totally do that rounders till the illfated tilt. Oceans 13. This is the fourth one now in the whole gambling universe. Although there were some dabbling in billions. Yeah, there was some poker in billions, but the cast, the cast and this thing, we haven't announced all the cast, but Oscar Isaac, Alec Baldwin, David Costeble, Betty Gilpin, and there's a lot of your old guy. Yeah, gotta have got it. We're never going to battle without costy, but the cast's incredible Oscar is going to crush it in this in this part. And Damon cameo. Can you get him? I mean, let's like, it's just a slip by. I feel like this kills randers too, but I'm fine with it. Everybody says, you know what? I'll call you. You conference in Matt and we'll take it from there. All right. Well, I'm happy for everything that's going on with you. I've had all your Nick fan friends. I know I will spend a long journey. I'm just happy. You're happy. In honor of well, like you said, I wasn't going to do it because I didn't want to drink anything. I didn't want it, but here's the thing. You were right. You said two things. You said, one, I should celebrate being in the championship series and have a lovable next time, but also in honor of William Goldman, who you love and I love too. And when you said that that he had 99 and that's the last time he saw him in the championship series. And so I just shout out, bring me the greatest green rider who ever lived, the great William Goldman and a wonderful man and one of the great Nick fans of all time. He's watching over us. Right up there with Spike Lee. He's watching over this. Thanks, Coppelman. Thanks, man. Talk to you soon. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Tim Legor. Thanks to my friend, Brian Coppelman. Congrats to all the Nick fans out there. Here's the schedule for me. I'm coming back live on Thursday night after game six. You can watch it on Netflix or you can listen to it. Slash, watch it wherever you want on Spotify. And if there's a game seven, we will we will be going live on Saturday night for game seven. Okay, see San Antonio. So that is the schedule. Don't forget new rewatchables went up animal house and we have 2001 a space Odyssey coming next week. Either Sunday or Monday, depending on what happens with game seven. I will see you later in the week. Must be 21 plus some president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and president DC Kentucky or Wyoming game prom call 100 gamble or 1 800 by reset call 888 797777 or visit ccpg.org/chat Connecticut or md gambling help.org Maryland hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 80327 50 50 for 24 seven sport Massachusetts or call 8778 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 8777707867. Imagine setting your makeup then forgetting it's even theirs. 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