A PLL Video Game Coming?

We started one-on-ones to give our fan community a direct line to the PLL and right now We're building a new way for fans to connect directly with each other PLL chat lets fans share react and message all within the PLL app Learn more at premierlacrossleague.com/pll-chat Top everyone welcome episode three of one-on-ones with Mike and Paul Mike's wearing the beans hat. Where can you get that? I think you can get it on the shop PLL merch.com But you know, I love the beans merch. We had our beans holiday first. Well, it's special to us in 2020 We had nothing going on and the beans Joke was the first time we did that joke Yeah, and we also were able to bring in a sponsor and then have Beans be part of this larger initiative to create content Without games being played in the world being sort of on pause. Yeah, it has a sentimental value to me I remember working better than we all anticipated well first of all we did we built a website for them We built a brand identity. We did a state of the league Bret and I shot at my place in LA with NASS on and I think one of the reasons why it worked is it It was on the heels of the of us expanding to our seventh team Yeah, and a lot of people going like six to seven Their touring model is based on even numbers. Surely they're they're gonna add an eighth And so I would have bought it too it lasted about a week Anyway, this is their birthday celebration April fool. So we try not we've tried some April fools jokes that fall and flat on their face Fine that happens to everyone But I like April fools as the beans birthday. Well who knows I mean there may be a PLL beans team one day Yeah, seriously, it's like a real brand. There's a cult following There's you know it there are people who shook the PLL events who only rock PLL beans right and so maybe it's an expansion team If we ever sell teams mean we've had crazier. I mean, I'm not being there was the Atlanta blaze Yeah, I remember when when when Atlanta team in MLL and they did a big build up and all of us as players are talking When they went they went with blaze and we went I Mean obviously there's blaze reared in in the league But when you think of blaze you think about smoking weed and I remember thinking like wow That's the association it's kind of tight that kind of a tight name like that our sport that's already struggling right now reputationally back in you know 2015 or whatever it is and they went with blaze anyway I yeah kind of like blaze but when I think about blaze the thing about blaze reared in but anyway There's a lot of back and forth beans could work at some point. There's already an embedded fan base You get off the blocks fast if you're an expansion team. I don't know what are some funky names And we've been uploading these podcasts to YouTube. So for the YouTube audience that's watching comment below a Name choice we went through that charades with With PMT and they chose water dogs with each of you guys and now water dogs is one of the best teams in the league Okay, we're gonna start with some of the cross news a little bit of sports business three of your questions that Brett selected At the top Notre Dame UVA a couple things I wanted to talk about as this as this game Unfolded UVA had just played Duke since the beginning. It's been a conversation around those three horses Shout out Hopkins being the force now coming in and actually a top three team according to people stop 20 to TLN But Notre Dame Virginia Duke they've all sort of traded blows Duke beat UVA 1812 two weeks ago And we were all anticipating this Notre Dame UVA matchup because they play musical chairs Also Notre Dame and UVA have had some great crowds all season long, which is awesome to see Notre Dame ends up beating UVA Pat Kavanaugh who will most certainly be a first round draft pick likely a top three set the all-time scoring record at Notre Dame Which is no small fee Got covered by Pat McAfee were you able to watch any college across this weekend? I watched some of the highlights You know look I can said before I tried on the weekends. I tried to like really focus on where I need to get down with the PLL Focus on the wife and son and And so but for me I watched a lot of the highlights what stood out to me is the athleticism the craftiness The Kavanaugh brothers play with obviously the crowds at the Duke Carolina game really really stood out to me. Yeah, I think LaCross is really on an upswing But the collegiate level the pro level obviously I'm biased, but I just really see this formation and the brand really Sort of coming back and in a more mainstream way. Yeah becoming less less cultish And so if when I watch those highlights, I see that other thing was going through my head is like you know the Kavanaugh's and what even with Matt Kavanaugh's done in the championship series of the cannons now I mean there's staple family in LaCross. Yeah, I just want to sit down with Mr. Kavanaugh as a father of son and be like what did you do? Yeah, like seriously they're not the biggest or not the tallest, but man they are tough and they're scrappy Yeah, and to me that's what I think is so interesting about them Yeah, is everyone can kind of relate with that those guys love the Rangers too Who've had a great start to their NHL playoffs and they play like those grinders who like to get their nose dirty in the corner on the Upcheck in hockey and I You know knowing fortunately all three of them they they lead with toughness and then the cursed family It's just more families to your point. It was really like you know, it's sort of the pals the gates But what we're seeing now, and I guess it's a good point Maybe maybe if you have enough brothers or sisters playing LaCross and you are lucky enough to occupy different positions You've got your own team practice in the backyard. Yeah another curse brothers at least you have midfielder attack Men to attack men and golly. Yeah, well, I knew I needed to stop playing the cross and you dust to me in the backyard I literally almost fell over my self-defense defense by a straight check Yeah, I was playing long pole. I was trying to guard you. You took like a 10-yard dash to me I literally almost fell over it was just a face dodge and I was like I got to focus on football Well key is for for some of you guys by the way who sent questions in Around skill stuff. We're gonna add that to ensuing podcasts But the note that I hear there is don't give your offensive player 10 yards to run at you Huge deficit me think about cornerbacks who give space? They're giving up the slant and and so if you're giving a lot of space to your dodging midfielder to me That was always when I was looking my chops Couple of other things Duke lost to UNC Which was a huge surprise and a big wrinkle headed into the ACC tournament It gave UNC life to make the NCAAs it put another seat of doubt in Duke And it sends this ripple effect much like we're seeing in the big 10 where like Hopkins won the big 10 regular season went undefeated But the two teams are likely gonna face in the big 10 tournament they beat in overtime And so they have Michigan on Thursday But at your point the feeling of lacrosse being back we have ACC big 10 IV tournament Patriot tournament all this week and selections show on Sunday Where we're gonna see the final bracket of 16 are you gonna make it out to the final four you haven't been to a final four in a while I haven't been to a final four. I'm just I get up for training camp around there people are training camp try to be focused Yeah, try to make sure we everything running smoothly for the players But I know we have a consortium of people going to I mean look for me where I sit I'm the not the most technical when it comes to college across I enjoy it as like just a casual sports fan I know how much it means to the league to have these stars emerging there And for me what I like is that there's a bunch of stars bubbling up. There's a ton of parity Yeah, and a ton of parity means a lot of hype for the draft for this selection Sunday And then also means that there's a lot of hyper on the tournaments that are coming up right? So and then a lot of hype that folds into the PLL draft on May 7th itself for me That's what I'm really excited about and then obviously there's just a lot of great stars There's a lot of good story lines. It's just it's just good for the sport. Yeah Two sleepers for our draft coming up It's actually hard to call them sleepers because I think they'd be number one in any other draft is Leon Entiman out of out of Notre Dame their goal tender and what we've seen in the PLL with blaze being the latest example of an MVP And then also an anchor because I think will cross as more like hockey in the playoffs where you have a goal It's standing on their head. They're gonna lead the team to victory. So Liam expect for him to be a top pick and then Jake Pizino Out of Albany native American long pole I was talking to Zed a couple days ago about his time playing long pole at the World Championships in San Diego last year He really loved it and frankly the sports lucky that he didn't get a long pole sooner Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to see him play offensively the way that he does So May 7th the college draft 7 o'clock ESPNU This Sunday preceding the draft is selection shows Sunday quint Paul Carter on the call We'll see some of them two days later. You wanted to talk about some sports business sports business All right two topics I want to talk about a first shot out to Kendall Baker friend of the friend of the PLL I saw I read his newsletter every morning I saw in his newsletter that on this day 103 years ago was of crowned the first ever NFL champion. Yeah, the Akron Pro 1921 Why that's interesting right you and I study the NFL a lot yeah We NFLs if you ever try to compare yourself. Let me just say to the NFL you have no shot But what what what what because they're too? - You're just an annoying thing. - We like to say consider, you're comparing, you're never gonna be the NFL. - NBA too, right? But like for us, we try to study what they've done. - Totally. - Right? They're 104 years old. And then the history too is a lot of what we think about. Like across as deeper history just in North America. As you know, in the 1970s Walter Camp created this game that he modeled off Rugby and soccer. It was mostly played at Ivy League institutions. - In 1870s. - Sorry, 1870, sorry. Geez, yeah, my math is all messed up. So 1870, they created this game. They played it all the way through the early 1900s. Teddy Roosevelt at Harvard saw this game being played. Fell in love with it. Then when he was elected president in 1901, 1902, he was like, there's too many people dying from this sport, this football. And so he's like, I have to literally get people together. It was only played at the collegiate level, right? To change the rules. And so one of the big rule changes was passing the ball forward. Not to the side. They created less pressure as Rugby. You know, you can throw it to the side. You can kick it forward. So that was a big rule change that made the game safer. Grew more participation. And then in the 1920s, they were like, wow, this is becoming massive at the collegiate level. Let's form the NFL. Let's put together a pro league on the back of the success of football at the collegiate level. And let's see if we can grow this, right? So for me, when I saw that stat from Kindles, it just spurred that and how deep you and I have gone on the history of the NFL and how we really tried to study people like Pete Rosal and how he grabbed all the rights from the teams in the '60s, packaged them in to one national platform to sell them from the league level. And he was like, I'm willing to make the bet that giving up ticket sales is worth the national exposure. And it have not affecting ticket sales. And it have growing ticket sales. And that's what the MLB was scared of, right? So there's all these lessons you and I try to learn and apply what we're doing. Yeah. I mean, you nailed it. So one of my favorite podcasts that you turned me on to is acquired. They have this three and a half hour slog on the NFL. Few shout out. Pete Rosal was a 33 year old commissioner coming out of the marketing department in Los Angeles and just had a vision. The other thing was the NFL is the sport of television. They surpassed baseball in the '60s on the rise of TV because of your call out that they said, hey, let's actually package our games and go to a national broadcaster in a monolithic era of consumption. And they were getting 50 million people to watch. Do you know 84 million people watch the finale of Cheers? Which was the lead in the Seinfeld? And same. So you wonder how this happens in television. It's utilizing the modern medium of choice. We talk about being the league of social. That's the modern medium of choice. We're starting to see spill over into streaming. So the NFL figured out television. And major league baseball was afraid of television because your thought that they would impact ticket sales. And for those lacrosse fans out there that think the dip in attendance over the last 10 years at the college final four and other venues that have actually changed on how we led the start of this show is because of more exposure on broadcast bullshit. That's that. Tell that to Burke Magnus. There's no way. You're telling me like fewer people go to NBA games because the games are on television all the time. It's not a case. It helps. It helps. Yeah. So that's sort of adding to the NFL. And then the other shout out is 1920 or the date that you referenced at the start, the Commissioner of Pro Football out of the gates, Jim Thorpe. Native American, played lacrosse. One of the all-time greatest Olympians. So understanding our past helps that's built our future. But the NFL and the NFL AFL merger, all these types of things that we consider to even when we end up buying NLL. Totally. I mean, it's important. We have to be students of the past to figure out ways to apply it to the future. So one more sports business topic before we get into questions. woke up this morning, saw a headline across all mediums, news mediums, that this is the first time since 2005 that neither Steph, LeBron or KD will be in the second round the playoffs. Wow. What were you doing in 2005? You were at Hopkins. Yeah, it was a freshman. Freshman at Hopkins getting ready to-- So the first time, neither of those three guys will be in it. And for what sat with me was like a couple of things. One, this is pro sports. And you turn the page. And it's really cutthroat. And it's hard on a human level. But that's just what happens in sports. The other thing that sat with me was, is the NBA sitting there being like, OK, what's our next crop of superstars? And by the way, I have no one to say to those three. He turned the page on those three guys. They could come back. And whatever. But I think a lot of people are having that conversation of who's up next. That's just pro sports, which is really hard on the human side. But for me, you and I always talk about stars. The NBA is so fortunate. Since 2005, they have these three guys as stars. And carrying the torch of the NBA. And particularly LeBron. And it took them several years to find them. Because when Jordan turned over, you were going, oh, yeah, when Jordan turned over, so it was Michael. But for me, what stood out to me, if you think about all three of those guys, they did two things really well that I think what makes a star-- I don't-- a league can't make a star, a team can't make a star, star makes a star. What we can do is we can just help get behind them and help build their platform and really talk about them in a way that they really proclaims the work they're doing. But the work is they have to have success, at least my recipe, for what I think a star is. They have to have success on the floor, on the field. And then they also have to put in the work off the field. But that's just not just training. That's like the work and using the tools of their disposal to build their audience. So whether it's social, whether it's speaking events, whether it's working the community, there's an era of charisma that you have to have off the field. That builds the start on that attracts people. And so yes, you want to be-- put everything you have into the field or onto the court, and you want to win championships. That's the ultimate goal. But to really emerge as a star star, I think the off the field component is just as important. Yep. I'll reference my buddy who's now running sports at Instagram, who was at the agency that I was with back in that 2005 era in Will Yoder. And Will used to tell me, there's all this excitement around Instagram, and Facebook, and Twitter, and YouTube at the time. He was like, please, please continue to be the best on the field. Because otherwise, the audience has X-ray vision. And you can only go so far as a creator if you're not performing. If you also look at the history, I mean, Tager Woods dominated the field. So did Lewis Hamilton, so did Michael Jordan, so did Steph Curry, LeBron, and KD. So has Caitlin Clark. She's just-- she's so far ahead of everyone else. She's been able to average in like 35 points of game in college's nuts. So you have to not only be the best, but I think if you're miles ahead as the best, it does you a big favor. And to your point, off the field, there has to be an element of Pixie Dust. I think the lead can support it. Streamers can support it with Doc series and other like originals that are formed. I think some of the Pixie Dust around Caitlin actually goes two years back when Angel Rist did this after they beat Caitlin in the championship. And that was like a big point of drama. And that begins to percolate. Even unconsciously, then semi-consciously, here's her retribution tour. The universe has it perfectly they meet in the final four and boom, she beats Angel Ristinco. So there's these things that you can't manufacture as a league that makes sports so amazing. And we try to figure that out every day with our media and content team around the PLL. One of them is something that we've discussed in Bill Terny, who is by championships one, the greatest ever. And he's coming in now and taking over Water Dogs or Organization for Mandy Copeland. This Water Dogs organization is a team that lost to now the Utah archers in the championship game last year, whose head coach is Chris Bates, who, by the way, when Bill Terny left Princeton to go over to Denver, who took over, Chris Bates. So there are these stories, this pixie dust that incumbent on us and then our players that take advantage of. Yeah. It almost seems like the recipe to Bill and his stars went on the field or on the quarter on the ice. And then, once you've had that credibility, then you can really start investing more heavily off. Phil, would you say that's-- 100%-- A way to look at it. People are always asking questions around how do I become this on the show, so maybe a little advice. Yeah, I mean, we often recommend authenticity. And when I say we, it's us as a median content team, it's what meta and YouTube recommend. It's what every network recommends. Now, a lot of athletes that I've seen across disciplines have come up and they see what I did on YouTube or what LeBron James does without interrupted. And they go, that's the model. I need to replicate that tone, that forum. And the truth is, if it's not you, then you shouldn't do it. And I'll give you an example, Steph Curry. So Steph, out of Davidson, was a shy guy. He's introverted and didn't like the camera or the attention or the commercials. And we shared an agency in Octagon, so I had an inside peak. And then we met Steph at his Sports Business Summit. And then Steph's been on my podcast. And he has changed his approach almost entirely through reps, through maturity. Because what you get at the pro levels if you're good enough a 14 to 20 year career and you grow up and So Steph has become so comfortable on camera. He's an activist. He interviews Barack Obama He does spots with carmax and under armor and he's got his own shoe and The version of Steph that we see and we love now is not how Steph was on camera So there's an element of patience and finding a team who can guide you to your authentic voice Yeah, that confidence of winning can give you confidence Hope off off the course. No question. There's that I think that's a hindrance for a lot of athletes And especially today's day and age is the fear of losing because when you lose you get flogged I got smoked when I played like shit in the championship series or neither the championship series That we know it now, but the one of the bubble in the you tell me. Yeah, you know I shot one for 19 so I I deserve to get smoked and I got smoked because I put myself out there And I'll always be proud of that when I play it is I I Verbalized that I would I wanted to be the best and when I won an MVP of a championship I said I was the best that piss a lot of people off That's what Muhammad Ali's done It's what Michael Jordan's done's what LeBron James and Steph Curry have done and the other side of it is the risk is when Ultimately as we all are not the best and we get beaten by our opponents and we get held to no goals and no assists that people are Gonna get after you. She can't be afraid of it. You got to know that This two shall pass and you're in the arena Right here. It's part of unfortunately being in the arena. Yeah, whether it's on the field or in the front office People are gonna come after you and talked about it last week. It's like Unfortunately, it's part of social, but like if you're in the arena knowing that that's gonna happen because you're putting yourself out there I don't know. I just always go back to we only have one shot at this one shot our life in my as well getting their arena Totally and if you believe in manifestation or achieving the biggest of dreams You've got to think it you've got to say it before you go do it And so if you're skipping step two you ain't gonna go do it. Yeah, and that's just the hard part But that's what man and the arena is about right up there right there. Yeah, I finally took the plastic off All right, should we get into questions? Yes First one, Brett. Hey Mike and Paul this Paul Blackburn here in Louisville, Kentucky My question is around the draft What's it coming up here in the next couple weeks? So what I wondered is what is the process look like for a college player that would like to play professional lacrosse in the PLL Do they have to submit their name into you guys to be entered into the draft or do you go through and select? The players along with the coaches and GMs from the programs Thanks for this opportunity to ask this question Hope you guys have a great day and can't wait to the season starts Thanks Paul great question Shout out to Louisville. We'll see it the all-star game which figure out a way that he sent that question how to get him tickets the all-star game Yeah July 13th. Yeah Paul blackburn. Yeah, we're gonna give him some tickets to the all-star game So I appreciate the question. I'll take first shot at it So there was a process when I was in MLL that was A bit strange it was covert and I remember almost not being eligible to be drafted Because at the time we were the number four seed playing in the playoffs trying to get to championship weekend and win a title And I was a senior and the last thing Petro and Bobby Benson We're looking to do is complete paperwork that was emailed to them and potentially fell in their junk inbox that myself Steven Pyser Kevin Huntley were eligible So we part of building the PLL as we recognize sort of the history of Probecross and areas we can fix We have a Lacks product team that's led by Rachel the Checo Andrew Manning Andrew Sinanberg Seth Tierney Joel White they're all in the trenches communicating with coaches at the collegiate level and adhering to NCA Compliance we work with our GCGS Evans blah blah blah so there's the legal component But I appreciate this question because as the PLL gets further and further out there Two new fans I get asked a lot like how does a kid get in your league and my first answer is we have a draft And they go well tell me about college lacrosse and I think it's important to To get really into the weeds around how you make it to the pros and then once you're in or if you're not selected Because we only have four rounds how are you eligible to be picked up which make Ricky Miyazana as an example got picked up By the California Redwood for the champ series and Is eligible and and hoping to play this season depending on how training camp and everything unfolds Totally I mean for me you laid the process out well for me I think about it was only 32 guys are gonna be selected right and it's four rounds and so You know that's not a lot of players But it's also pro lacrosse and it's professional sports and so How does the next crop are the guys that want to break their way the undrafted guys like a writer garndsie He was undrafted yeah make their way In front of these coaches and gms and then championships series like we talked about last week Which again is the top four teams to regular season play in sixes format which is Olympic format and our offseason tournament Those guys then have greater opportunities as well To jump into those rosters. They may be a better fit for sixes So for me it's always exciting to see if there's some undrafted guys I mean writer garnds one of the biggest stars in the PLL Went undrafted so it's not to say that hey the draft picks are always There are gonna be great and hopefully future stars, but there's a chance for guys to go undrafted Working with the you know get there their film can come through anywhere like I've gotten film introductions from College coaches where they're like hey you guys didn't take a look at this guy didn't draft him Yep, I'll send it to Rachel. She sends all the coaches your satirney. They evaluate it right like We're always putting more film out because we just know there's you know great players out there and you never know in your shots Gonna be called seasons long. It's physical injuries happen. Stay ready. Yeah Yeah, and the last thing is The tie to the NBA we were talking about earlier and building stars. I mean the the new crop of stars Talk about Luca Doncic, Yokecic Yonis I mean you have Ant-Man Anthony Edwards, but the three of those four are international players So how do we Continue to keep an open line of communication and scouting the Japanese national team You know Canadian-born Summer box players that didn't play university ball How are we Thinking about talent that lives outside of the US collegiate system. Hi guys. This is back from Houston, Texas Okay, I my question is When will P.S. Oh Have that video game? The thing to be so cool to have a little point of DL Will cross video games maybe like the FIFA style where you have game modes like streak across or the women's games Thank you. Where are you doing for the cross? Awesome. Zach from Houston, Texas. Appreciate you brother. Great question. We can actually get this asked fair amount A couple things that play right Um, I think what you're asking around is a console video game We've done a digital video game in top shelf. It's still available people are still actively playing I think we have something like we have a hundred thousand people plus playing that game I think there's like there's like 15,000 people. They're still actively playing right now and we haven't been up to you We haven't updated or promoted in two years Which shows that there's a stickiness and a demand for this type of stuff console games are a little bit different because of the it's not as It's a lot more intricate a lot more development hours a lot more art needs to go into it Now it's you had some good ideas like street lacrosse style something we're thinking about um NBA jam is a few NFL blitz those were games we played all the time We're young so there's some nostalgia around that But I also think those aren't going to be as intricate to build and could be something that a console partner wants to To do with us. I think what you know one of the issues that you have with these you know, just sort of like Opening up the hood a bit and this is why we create the show is that you talk to one of these console game companies Um, and they'll want to they'll do a tam analysis. What's told russable market? How many people are playing? How many people will buy because when they make a commitment to invest in a console game They're investing millions and millions of dollars from their developers from their artists to build that And it's kind of like a book which you know a lot about with your book And they got to make a bet. There's gonna be enough people buying those things and so we're always like debating them on that I think for us what we're starting to get to the place of is there's enough demand from people like Zach where we're like Uh, or Beck where we're like hey we're trying to Do this we know there's enough demand from audience wants to just go to a gaming studio and say hey Let's just do this together And you know, maybe we're a little more nimble a little more agile Maybe it's something that's a digital game. Maybe it's a console But not wait for a big gaming developer to take us pay us a fee upfront and let's just go do it together In a more nimble fast way. So we're having those conversations. I don't know Maybe we do the crowdfunding where you know we get a certain number of votes that come in and say let's go do this. Yeah No, it's a it's a great node and uh It's definitely the direction that we've been contemplating since starting the POL And I like top shelf I think the video game business is a bit like the movie business And that it has gotten more strategic and has scaled back the number of titles That they put out versus 20 years ago knowing Tony Hawk and the relationship that he built with Activision which was by the way like walking down the street, knocking on doors, and trying to sell through Skate in America, which at the time reminds me of lacrosse in America from a tam perspective. He was able to push that through because video game titles are getting made like movie title at the time, 24 studio, and there are dozen studios. So the good news is with new technology and new hardware, the costs have gone down, but to create a proper FIFA style game, which by the way I want to do, is gonna require a co-investment from a major studio. Me look, I think about this through the lens of storytelling, film, television, documentaries, books, podcasts, own and operated content, what we do across social media, your network partners to the live games, and video games. Are all dimensions where you can raise the profile? FIFA did it for soccer in America? Really, global football's complex. Is that what got you into Premier League playing FIFA? I feel like that. You were like got into Premier League 'cause you were playing FIFA in college. 100%? That's why I got into it. I understood what the fucking Ollie was because I was playing Tony Hawk Pro Skater. Yeah, right? And I watched the NHL because I loved Mighty Ducks. If there was Bob Sledding pro league during cool run-ins, I would have probably watched that. Dipping now into film, you have Rudy Field of Dreams. Remember the Titans, a history of film that helped elevate sport, Tarder Woods to golf in the EA Sports title. So these are areas that our strategy team is working on. Our finance team is looking at, we wish it was as easy as just turning on the light switch in the room and benefiting from it. It's not because it has to be fruitful to your partner in the process. But we've done crazy things. We convinced NBC and then ESPN to cover LaCrosse and it's worked out. Yep. So we're hellbent on doing that for video games. My calendar's buzzing at me. Last question, cool. What's up, Paul and Mike? This is Samir. I am calling with a question that I have but I assume other LaCrosse fans have as well. What's going on with Lyle Thompson? Can we expect to see him back in the PLL? All right, thanks guys. Well, shout out, Samir. Well, TLN was constructed by Samir Chargery. So he was one of the first calls when the episode one dropped out, dropped of one on ones. And he didn't actually see any promo for it. The Algo has served it to him on iTunes or Spotify. And immediately gave us feedback but said, hey, I want to call and leave a question. As I go for it, ask us your hardest question. And this might be-- This might be one of them. So first of all, I'll say that Lyle's a close friend of mine. I played my last season with him. I adore him. We've been to Anadaga Nation to shoot the story of Lyle, Brett and I. And I stay in touch with him. I hope that Lyle comes back in place in the PLL. The decision that he made last summer was a personal one. And he went on his Instagram and talked about it in a selfie video format. He reached a place where he was feeling burnt out of travel. And he's got five beautiful kids that are now at an age where they're playing summer sports. And he decided to take a personal decision given that he plays both NLL and PLL, essentially traveling eight months of the year, which I know about when I was doing both to get the summer back and help start his family or raise his family. So that was a personal decision. And that's happened in other pro sports leagues. Michael Jordan retired in the middle of his double three Pete. And he took it for personal reasons. His father had passed away. And he also said that he was feeling burnt out from all the work. Very Sanders notoriously and famously retired when he was 30. He was having the best career of any running back in football history. We're seeing it more in the NFL than ever because of safety concerns. But this is a good question because it brings a larger point to life, which is to play pro sports. It requires a level of commitment, being in the arena and the resilience to understand that you're probably going to lose more than you win. LeBron James has had statistically the greatest NBA career ever. And he doesn't win the championship every season. In fact, he by majority, well by majority, loses the championship. And so of our eight teams, seven teams, every season, go home and lose. That's fucking taxing. And so I totally empathize with players that are on the road. I mean, you're not talking about WWE's on the road 52 weeks a year. Those athletes love it. They're competitive. But they are fatigued because they live out of hotels. It is not for the faint of heart playing pro sports. So that's number one. And then number two is part of what we're reconciling at the PLL behind the behind the scenes is that we adopted players like me from MLL that actually had full-time jobs. You know, mine happened to be building the PLL with Mike. But Michael Ahrhart, who just retired this year, is a really successful commercial real estate agent in New York City. There are a lot of guys that because they were getting paid like I was $14,000 to play in MLL, they had full-time gigs. And they were doing both. So what we've never discussed, but we-- externally, we talk about it internally-- is how do we manage the transition from being a part-time part-time or part-time full-time in another gig in La Crosse? And frankly, doing a fucking great job at it, a lot of these guys, to just being full-time. We're transitioning now. But it's really difficult to ask someone who has a successful off-the-field career to, oh, by the way, we've quadrupled your rate wage in PLL. We want you to be full-time with us. That means leave your other job that might be paying you $100,000 more a year. That's unreasonable for you and I to ask. So we work closely with our players to especially cater to the rookies that are coming in and say, hey, maybe we hold off on a finance job. Here's what the future looks like the next three years. Here's how we can get you sponsorship revenue. Here's how we can build your media profile, camps and clinics. Because we're marketing it then the marketing and debt we're paying you more. I view the future of PLL when it is every athlete full-time living in market is going to be a two to four-year transition where the rookies hold on, first, second, third, fourth class, and then the guys who are doing both phase out naturally through retirement and so on. So there's a psycho component that we often discuss and we want to land that plane as we take the PLL to the moon. And that is being-- taking sports in America from the big five to the big six. Yeah. I mean, look, all that resonates for me and what Lyle's journey is resonates for me. I think that we're really grateful for his time in the PLL. And if he decides to come back, I'm sure there'll be a slot form if a GM decides there is. I mean, I think there's two things that come to mind for me aside from all the things you talked about. First, there'll be people on social. Well, you know, he chose NL over PLL. I mean, for me, it's like great. He's still in the lacrosse ecosystem. I would say it's similar to Lewis Hamilton if he was driving in F1 and NASCAR. He can't do both. He's got to pick one, but it's still good for motorsports. So for me, him continuing to play NLL is fantastic. One of the things that we didn't hit on is that traveling with us is every weekend. For the NLL, you have a consistency. Maybe you live in that market, it's a home and away model. You travel with us every weekend. More akin to WWE or in F1. It's also in the summer, which is the hardest months. We hear it from our staff. They're like, I'm missing a wedding and you're like, well, you know, work or what? And I miss weddings, you know, and it's hard. And also, you have summer vacation. And when you have five kids, I feel like I have a lot more empathy for the position that lies in also with all the work he's done to build a credible career. And when you have kids, man, the worst, it's like, well, you sent me a quote this weekend. And you're like, someone said it was either Steve Jobs. - Steve Jobs. - So like having a kid is like, we're looking at your heart outside of your body every day. - Yeah. - And if you have five of those hearts that's outside of your body and you're leaving for eight months out of the year and traveling, especially in the summer months, I imagine that's taken a toll on me. When I have to leave the house or travel for weekend and just with one son, and you hear daddy, and it's just like, it nifes you a bit. So I try to be logical about it and be like, well, this is how we put food in the table. But I think there's a lot of people out there who deal with this and to the extent that he has the ability to focus more on his family and then still being the lacrosse arena. You know, I applaud him for that. - Yeah. And you brought up a good point around travel and him playing NOL and then him also now playing in MSL. So summer box across for those that are aware of it, it's essentially senior Canadian, senior A Canadian lacrosse. They've competed for a man cup for a long time. It is not dissimilar from the Allen cup for those who pay attention to senior A Canadian hockey and both senior A on the hockey and lacrosse side feed into the NHL, the NLL, the PLL. There was a new structure set forth when we launched the PLL that made its way onto social where players in the PLL could not also play in MSL. I'll tell you for two reasons, legal and insurance. Running the NFL, running the PLL, running the NBA, running the NHL is really expensive. The largest cost is often insurance. Think about it, we take insurance out on our homes, on our personal lives, on personal items and the likelihood of insurance needed to be called is really low. When you're asking for insurance to be taken out in a contact sport where there is at least one injury every game, the cost is really high. So I mentioned the Allen cup in hockey because Gary Bettman and the NHL do not allow their players to play in senior A hockey. The owners don't allow it either. There's risk of injury and you know what, we've leveled up professional lacrosse and our coaches and GMs don't want their guys doing anything but training with Steadman and Howard Head during the weeks in between being at practice, showing up healthy without sore muscles so that they can win their first or second PLL championship. So I just want to do address that head on too. And Lyle will say this in his video if you look at it and his press release, his intention wasn't to choose one or the other but he plays for the Six Nations Chiefs which we haven't seen in a game. It's an amazing experience because it's at the epicenter of the creator's game and it's right down the street from him and he plays home games. So anyway, I think about Lyle a lot. I love him dearly. Great question, Samir. And that wraps up. That wraps it up. You got episode three, episode three. My calendar is buzzing at me right now. Yeah, yeah, fine. We got to get done. You got to put do not disturb next week. Yeah. We got to go. We got to go. But next week is going to be packed. So it's unlikely I'd say that this episode is going to come out next Wednesday. We're going to try to sort it out. We'll sort it because we have our draft on Tuesday. Tuesday. Tuesday. You're going to be your speaking at a Sportico conference here in LA. You're hosting a bunch of people on a panel. That's Wednesday. So we'll sort it out, Brett. We'll sort it out. OK, everyone. May 7th. Draft. 7 p.m. ESPNU and ESPN Plus tune into the greatest draft ever. Yeah. Cheap plug. My book's coming out on the 7th, too. Plug it real quick. Not cheap. But wait up the champion. You can get it anywhere. Amazon. You can go to my website, the way of the champion.com. Barnes and Noble, you name it. Lessons from our experiences and the greatest athletes of all time. Hell yeah. Let's get it, everyone.