A Morning With Vivian Wilson, Elon’s Estranged Daughter

I'm just a human being with a soul. I'm just kidding. I got myself surgery removed. Hello, hello, and welcome back to a bit fruity. Today, we have a little bit of a different show. This is not usually an interview podcast. It's usually a culture and political analysis podcast, but I recently got to know someone who really exists at the center of so many conversations that we have on this podcast, but who we have yet to hear from on the fruity podcast mic. And so I thought now's the time. I have invaded months, place of residence. Welcome to the podcast and welcome to my apartment, Vivian Jenna Wilson. Vivian, you have had a whirlwind few months. I have, yes, sort of into public figurehood into this like, very strange internet spotlight, which I'm like sort of familiar with, but not nearly probably the way that you are at this point. And I'm just curious like, how are you doing right now? I'm doing good. It's definitely like a lot to get used to all at once because it was very much in my specific instance. It was like, there was no training miles. It was zero to 100. So it's just, it's a bit of a struggle to get like acclimated to it, but obviously I'm very grateful for all the support and love I've received. And this is just such a unique experience. And I want to enjoy it and like live life to the fullest. You're giving your life. That was the most passion. You're giving your page an answer. I'm done. Hi, thank you. Thank you. Do you want world peace? I'm proud of you. I'm proud of the queen. I'll fight hard for world peace. Thank you. Thank you. This moment means so much to me. I keep getting this booking cheer videos on my TikTok. I mean, it's an earnest podcast, but it's not that earnest. That was like real pageant material. That was real. That was my honest answer. I'm sorry. Them. Well, but it, I mean, it really has come at you so quickly. Vivian got to my apartment a little while ago and we've just been having coffee and chatting it up. It's a really rainy day here in New York. Yeah. And you were telling me about how you went from like 22 followers on the reds one day to, it's just like ballooned off. Yeah, meaningly, it went from like literally 22 followers, but I was shit posting about Kpop and like chatting with the gaggle of other turns people on a dead app to like 60,000 followers or something like that. And of course, of one night, it was like nothing. And then, oh, Jamie Lee Curtis just like knows who you are now. I'm like, wow. That's kind of coconut. And then I feel like there's also like coverage of the things that you put out on threads. Yeah, especially pink news. I literally will like post anything on bros. I feel like an article about it the next day. I mean, I'm so curious because like as someone who works like on the internet and like I do this podcast for a job and whatever like everything happened pretty slowly. Like I've been doing this for like six years and like I've had time to incrementally get used to it. Yeah. I mean, just a few months ago, you were a very, very private person. Yeah. And all of a sudden, you're less so. It was I mean, I've always been like a pretty, I don't know, ostentatious is the right word. That's very SATs. But I've always been like a very kind of like extra person, not necessarily extroverted, more so now, obviously. You kind of have to be. But I was kind of like overly charismatic and enthusiastic. I was kind of like, I had a bit of the word you thought situation where like if there was something I liked doing was like, wow, you guys were gonna do. I don't know what the fuck that voice was. It was a little toad. Wow, we're gonna save the castle. I don't know. I'm just curious if it's been overwhelming or how you're dealing with it. And like it has very much so been overwhelming. But like I am doing everything I can to not be overwhelmed and just be overwhelmed. I was also curious like what made you decide to not like step into this role. And there's not really a role, but like spite. Okay. So the reason I got famous, but those of you don't know other than the nepotism, the reason the nepotism happened Jordan Peterson was on a podcast with certain someone. And obviously that's the fucking thing where the my son Savia. He's dead. And when Peterson was like, oh my god, I'm so I don't know why I'm giving the British accent. It's honestly really good. I think it's just way more funny that way. I think you're making Jordan Peterson sound like a little bit nicer than he actually has. He's like way hotter than he's like, wow. Like I think Jordan Peterson. I say like, no, that's too nasally. Hold on. He has this kind of like overly gravely voice. Wow. That happened here. Child. Like that's actually accurate. That's like toad on Jordan Peterson. What is with the toad voices today? Yeah. But Jordan Peterson was on this podcast. And he was like, oh my god. I'm so sorry that your child is dead. And I was like just over there in the corner of literally in my small fucking apartment in Tokyo going to college. And I was like, did this bitch just try to come for me? And I was like, no, no, I was literally like, hell fucking no. I am not about to let this bitch come for me and have that just slide. So I had my little threads response. I didn't win. Mega coconuts viral. I keep saying mega coconuts. I stole that from not only when I'm so sorry. I also say coconuts and bananas all the time because they only win. She is like infested trans vocabulary and vocabulary. Yeah. Like infested. It's super mega fucking coconuts. So you hear this like dumb podcast. Yeah. And you're like, nope, I want to have a voice in this. I literally saw it. I woke up. I woke up to this. This is the first thing I experienced that day. Imagine the storm rising. They're like, I'm ready for another day. It was a week before finals week. So I should have been studying. But I was like fucking around. And by fucking around, I mean, rotting in my apartment, watching TikToks and like vibing. Did I take my little phone? I open the phone. I see a text from my aunt. I open the text. I love the way you're telling this. Yes. And she's like, this bitch just tried to come for me. For you. And I was like, gas, double gas. This is not how it happened at all. I love the like telenovelification of this family drama. Exactly. Yeah. No, I love this. I think we should, I think everyone should telenovela size everything. I think it's more fun. I mean, Influenza is basically do that. I'm just being honest. I saw the clip. I'm just trying to introduce someone's like, he's dead. So the first thing I do is I text my mom and I'm like, I can't let this bitch get to me. I must retaliate. I'm so sorry, mother. I'm going into, I don't know what the fuck this bit is. I texted my mom. I'm just going to do normal voice now. So sorry. I just want to like, I'm going to go public. So sorry. You cannot stop me. And at that point, she was kind of just like, yeah, I trust you. Do what you need to do. Obviously, just be careful in what moment. And then later on, I'd take a knob or whatever. And then I wake up and I text my friends. Obviously, I get like a bunch of tags because this thing went like super fucking viral. I don't think you'll understand. Well, honestly, the people listening to this podcast were paying attention. Yeah, the thing went super viral. And I'm getting like a bunch of tags. And I text my friends that I'm going to go public. And my friend was cruising. I was like, kind of used to that, especially after the book camp. There was a book came out. They should have talked me whatever it's fine. Fuck you, Walter. I said, yeah, fuck you Walter Isaacson. That was direct. And my friend also, I think everyone has one friend where they get because like, I'm used to this shit. She wasn't. She was so much angrier than I was about the whole situation because I was like no, I'm bored to it. And I was like, I'm going public. And she was like, oh my god, bitch, fuck. Yes. I'm so excited for you. You better eat him alive. And I was like, I'll do my best. And then I did my best. And then Jamie Lee Curtis followed me. That's the story of how it happened. Prior to that, I mean, you had always lived a private life. I mean, yeah, pretty much. And I had like no socials. My social growth like private. I mean, it feels like the privacy was almost kind of taken from you. I don't know if it was necessarily taken from me because I chose to respond. Yeah. And when I chose to respond, I knew what I was getting into. And even then I could have done the threads post and then disappeared back into the winds. And I didn't. Yeah. That's my choice. So I'm not going to say it was taken from me. It was, I was given a choice. And I chose. You said a second ago to me that your response actually went more viral than the initial like, yes, and how was that? Validating. Yeah. Very valid. That was the moment I realized, oh, fuck, I actually do have a voice. Yeah. Because before that, I kind of was just like, I felt so powerless. Also, I had all this like pent up emotion. Obviously, from childhood and life and whatever. And it was literally probably the most catholic moment of my entire life doing that. That's really amazing to hear because I feel like I would imagine it could have been like, super overwhelming. And it probably was, but it was like, it was, but it was also like very exciting. It was like, oh, no, that was very jasmine. Did you anticipate the level of support? Honestly, no, I thought it would be, there would be a lot more backlash than there was. Obviously, the conservators hate me, but I don't know what they think. So girl, it's easy to compartmentalize when conservatives hate you. I feel like, like for me, it's like, once you get called a faggot once, like you've gotten called a faggot a thousand times. Once you get called an age to be once, once you get called an HSTS brick hunt or whatever the fuck. This is like a crazy four-gen link of that. I had to, my ex had to explain to me what an age - G.P. Brickhan was - I have literally no idea. - And an H.S. T.S. Passoade. Because people were calling me these things. And I was like, I have no, like she told me that people were calling me this. I was like, I looked at her and I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? (laughing) Okay, so apparently here's the thing. I knew what Passoade was. I did not know what any of the other ones was. Passoade is, it's like the most forecension imaginable. - I was gonna, yeah. - forecension has the LGBT board, the TTT one, TTT TTT. - Okay. - And what it is, it's a bunch of lonely conservative trans-femes in the closet who find the most obnoxious, possible way to talk about literally everything regarding the trans-experience. They call people who pass passoids as a derogatory term. They're like also, fortune is like obsessed with passing. Like kind of the entire transfer, no, no. It's obsessed with passing. Cause it's like a reasonable thing to be obsessed about, especially when safety is on the picture. - But I feel like it's, when a slur that someone calls you is so like rooted in terminally online culture that you don't even know what they're calling you, it's like that's kind of the read in and of itself. - Yeah, it's like you think you ate that, but the only thing you ate was your soul. (laughing) - No, that's quite, yeah. - Yeah, the only thing you ate was your soul. - Were you ever scared of? - To make your voice so public. - Oh yeah, I was definitely scared. - Yeah. - But like it got to your point where it's like, I don't really have anything to lose. My reputation had been dragged so far through the mud and I was used as like an example of why trans kids should not exist, basically. And I was like literally at this point, there was nowhere to go but up. Cause I was used as that scapegoat for so long, like in the book and I keep calling it the book in the biography, in conservative culture in general, whenever anyone would talk about me. Cause for those of you who don't know, I got my core document, my name changed core documents, leaked in 2022. And again, they used that as another example of like, how I'm like, I don't know, fucking bunkers, which I am fucking bunkers. - Just not in the way that they accuse you of being here. - Exactly. - Just a quick break from the episode to thank the sponsor of today's episode, Factor. Lately between making this podcast and doing live shows for this podcast, which I'm currently touring around for and making stuff for social media and trying to sneak in a little bit of extra time just to take care of myself. I honestly haven't had that much time for anything else. Hashtag girl boss. Hashtag ye they boss. One super helpful way for me to tastefully, no pun intended, cut corners is with Factor. Factor is a meal delivery service with chef made gourmet meals that are ready to eat in just two minutes. With Factor, there are a bunch of different meal options that you can try for all of your dietary needs. I personally go for protein plus. If you like me are a closeted gym rat, then that might be a good option for you. Protein plus has so many high protein options that are way yummier than, you know, unseasoned grilled chicken and rice every single day, no shade to people who love to meal prep. If you too would like to tastefully cut some corners and make eating at home a more varied and less laborious experience, you should try Factor. You can get started at Factor Meals.com/Fruity50Off for 50% off your first box and free shipping. That's FactorMeals.com/Fruity50Off. Thank you so much Factor and now let's get back to the episode. So you just celebrated five years of coming out? - I did, I came out. - Congratulations. - I came out May of 2020. I think it was my Factor six. I don't remember which one. - Happy five. - Happy five. - Yeah, thank you. - What was your like coming out like? - Okay, it was the cringes coming out. I think I've ever heard of in history. Like I posted to my aunt's story. One of those, you know, like extreme close up. Like I call them like crack shots of like your face. - Okay. - For like the memes. Kind of like the point five thing. But it was like. - Sure, sure, sure, sure. - It was literally just like a close up of like my face, making like a funny face, being cringes and shit. And I had it. Hi everyone, I'm trans. She, her pronouns and then on the bottom left. I was like, 'cause I didn't want to make it a whole thing. And I wanted someone, I wanted people to be able to talk to me about something other than that. So maybe if I mentioned something else, they would grasp onto that and then the conversation would be less awkward. My dumbass felt that less awkward meant talking about the Hunger Games. - Okay. - So I also said, are you team Pino or team Pino? (both laughing) You're like, I was like, I had just turned 16, okay, give me a fucking break. - You're like, I'm transgender. What does everyone think about the Hunger Games? (both laughing) Maybe I am. I was, I love the strategy there. I wish I could have been in your 16 year old brain at the point in which you were strategizing. Like, how do I make my coming out less about coming out and more about like Pita? - I was like, how do I, how do I destroy my social reputation even? I mean, I didn't, obviously being trans was relatively fine, it was all sensualist, okay. Like. - You grew up in LA. - Yeah, I do that. I'm from LA. But I was like, how do I make everyone think I've even more of a nerdy shot in that everyone already does? (both laughing) No, I was like, not popular at all in high school. I like very much, I kept to myself. I was like, girl, yeah. - And how, how was coming out? - It was cool. I put some answers to it and people were like, okay. And then, was it like fine in your personal life like until the media came along? - Other than the obvious, yes. - Yeah. - Yeah. I mean, like, there was some struggle. There were some people who struggled to get used to it, but like, whatever. - You brought up something about like being basically like turned into a pond. Where it's like, when conservatives want to talk about trans people, they talk about you. - I was definitely one of the ponds that they used when they wanted to talk about like why trans kids or like, brainwashed or whatever the fuck, because I feel like mind via that. - Love the welcome virus. I love the welcome virus. - It's a real virus. - It's among my favorite viruses. - It's among our favorite viruses. - But something that I think so much about and that we get to touch on sometimes on this podcast is the way that like we as culture from sort of all sides politically turn people, like human beings into ponds, into symbols of bigger conversations that like, may or may not really have anything to do with them. - Yeah. - And like, I think about it. I mean, I talk about, I always find ways to talk about Britney Spears, but like, we really, we continue to do this with Britney Spears. I mean, 20 years ago we did it with Britney Spears regarding like, we wanted to talk about conversations of like, young womanhood and sexuality and we would project all of those complicated things onto Britney Spears, who was like an 18 year old woman. - Yeah. - And now we talk about like mental health and disability rights through the body of Britney Spears. Britney Spears turned it over. I just have to slip it in there. I also think about that in the context of like, another thing that I've talked about a lot on this podcast, which was like, the Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light. - Oh my God. I feel so bad. I felt so bad for her. - Yeah. - Okay, I'm not going to lie. That was one of the things that fucking horrified me about like potentially becoming famous is I saw that and literally like the first week of like, the first few weeks of becoming famous, I was the only thing I could think of was like, that could be me someday. - Like, are they gonna Dylan Mulvaney me? - Yeah, pretty much. And I was like, well, I'm pretty high up on the list of trans people who conservatives don't like. I'm think I'm at least on the top side. So I'm like, fuck, that might happen to me one day. - But you don't feel like it has? - Not yet, I don't feel like it has. - It's cool and it's pretty like fascinating how you're able to, 'cause obviously people have said crazy shit. - Yeah. - But it seems like you're able to compartmentalize it really well. - Yeah, you just put your deep deep down. But I will say, there's one thing I want to talk about in the hate comments. When conservative call me like a trendy antifaggot and whatever, I can say that right. - Of course. - When they call me a trendy antishima, I want to pack it in other stores. And I'm like, okay, whatever, whatever, I don't care. But then when I left it says like, I saw like a leftist saying like, I find her obnoxious. I want to actually kind of hurt, 'cause I'm like, I value your opinion. - Girl. - And I am obnoxious, but you don't need to call me 'bout. - Oh my gosh, I would love to just like talk about like, dealing with different types of hate comments, because it's so, I feel like we were talking about, it's like, once you've been called a fagot or some slur, once by a conservative, you've, it's like, it doesn't hit anymore. - No, it doesn't. - It's like, oh, you're like, I know how that feels tick. And like, these people, of course they hate me. It's like, who cares? - Yeah. - But when you get it from people who you think are on your own like, - It hurts a lot more. - And it might be like, a way less or insult. - Yeah. - But it's from someone who you think should like you. - Yeah. - I don't know, that's my experience. - That's my experience as well. No, that's very true. - It's so hard. - Go behind that. - I remember I used to talk to my therapist about that. I was like, but they're on my side. They're on my side and they're like, making tick talks about me or whatever. And she was like, but if they're talking about you that way, then maybe they're not really like, as on your side as you think they are. - There's always going to be someone like, who doesn't like you. And I did see you say, talk about me by someone who was like, I don't think we should trust her because they're like, is she doing like a siop? Is this like, oh, fake? And I'm like, bitch, I do not lose. like, down to my fucking health insurance. and cell plan. Just to be like a fake tranny on the internet. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, I don't know. People are also, I mean, people are so, so many people are just desperate to like have a conspiracy about the world that, you know what I mean? Yeah, no. I'm like, I think there is actually like a lot less conspiracy than people think, but just kind of like a boring answer about like it's kind of, I feel like a lot of things are less intentional than people think, but we'll see. I don't know. Maybe the moon landing was fake. Okay. We're keeping an open mind. It was done with lasers or whatever the fuck. They have quite an interity with. Jewish, Jewish spaces, Jewish space lasers. That's anti-smartage. Yeah, but I'm Jewish. Oh my god. They're gonna clip that and be like, oh god. Oh god. I do it to myself. I do it to myself. Yeah, you're not actually believing the moon landing was fake for the fucking record. Thank you very much. Yeah. And I don't believe the space lasers were Jewish. Who made the space lasers, my? Who made them? The Italians. Are you Italian? No. Sorry, you are a fundamental group. That was some strong anti-italian ex-centimental that you've been pretty podcasted. Sorry, but people being turned into symbols. Like I said, it's something I think about. Sorry, I'm gonna say like, people being turned into symbols. People being turn into symbols. But they're being turned, are they? They're being turned into symbols are not that. People being turned into symbols. What symbols are they being turned into? Okay. This is the recording process. There's always that. Matt, did you know something? They were being turned into symbols. The symbols, Mama, they're being turned into. Speaking of people being turned into symbols, it kind of, I feel like happens from every direction and you, I was going through your threads account when I was writing down some notes that I wanted to bring up when I got to talk to you. Is this from my angsty, early, famous posting days? How early was a month ago? I'm being exposed. I don't really was a month ago. You stayed you bitch. You wrote something that I thought was really interesting. You basically wrote that people like on the left were referring to you as some sort of like Katniss Everdeen heroic rebel figure. And so what I find interesting about the like kind of reducing people into like these ponds and cultures and stuff is that, you know, people who hate you will turn you into like a cartoon villain. Yeah. And then the people who are kind of claiming you for their side will turn you into like a cartoon martyr. Yeah. No, it's kind of crazy because like, other way is just you're being I don't know, straw man is the right word, but you're being like exaggerated. And there's a sense of connecting dots that don't exist in order to like fulfill this narrative. This is just a lot of fucking buzzwords. Okay. You're kind of just turned into like a straw man on other side, which is not great. Also, the murder sheet is really weird because I'm like, I'm still alive. Why are you turning me into a martyr? I don't get that. That's like something I did not expect. But it's definitely something I've seen. It's like at the heart of all these conversations that are so much bigger than you. It's just like this like 21-year-old person. Yeah. I'm just like just when you're on your old bitchy nerd. What do you want now that you're being out and public and all that like what do you want people to know from you like the person, not you, the symbol? What I want people to know about me is under the insane, genuinely insane amount of random cultural references that I make and all this obnoxiousness and repunzel hair. I'm just kidding. I got my soul so it really removed. That's the that's the the gender surgeries they've been talking about. It's the soul removal. They demureify your soul. Yeah. They take your soul. They make it more demure and then they give it back to you. In my case, it turned out it was a scam. Oh sure. So they just took it and they never give it back. Okay. I'm going to pull another post of yours. Oh wow. You posted on threads that people should stop shipping you with Baron Trump. There is an AO3 fanfiction featuring the Baron Trump. That is so funny. I think it was after I made the post. I'm not sure I'd have to check the dates. I'm sure you've seen a lot of crazy shit about yourself, but I'm specifically so sorry about that one. That one is really funny though. Don't do it, but it's not. Not happening. Absolutely not. That twink never. He's like six four. Baron Trump is, can you be like a, I don't know, like a fascist child and a twink? Maybe. Yes. Miley Nothless. Miley Nothless. He is a fascist child twink. What is some of the craziest shit that you've seen about yourself? Okay. I've seen some really funny shit. The funniest one I think I've seen, I posted this on threads with someone attributed my lore. I'm just going to call it my lore because I don't have to go into death every single time. Sure. Someone attributed my lore to my astrological sign to explain my behavior in like a critical way because they were conservative, but they also got the astrological sign wrong because they got my wrong version. What they were like, she's trans because of her sign. Yeah. What sign are you? I'm an ares. Okay. I think they got the Ares part right, but Ares part right, but they attributed it to my rising. Okay. And it was a different rising. Okay. I think my rising is Ares or cancer, but they said like horoscopes are making people trans now. Yeah. I wish. That's like the funniest thing I've ever seen. That was like the funniest thing I've ever ever got. Do you ever feel like you're just like hallucinating when you see like just stupid shit about yourself? Yeah. It's all the time. And like with it, like these people live in the twilight zone. Yeah. I see a lot of people who like go out of their way to make fake accounts with me. I'm like, oh, am I that interesting? Like a lot of conservatives also. I've seen a lot of people go on Twitter try to make an account under like my name and use one of my pictures for their profile thing and say the media has it all wrong. I love that. And it's obviously in a way I would never type. And usually it's like chat GPT or some shit. But like it's the most wild shit I've ever seen. Are they like, I'm a cis girl. I'm actually a cis girl and like every fine. No, they don't think I'm so obviously my transition is like documented. So they can't say I'm a cis girl. They were like, sure. I'm like, sorry, I made a mistake. And I made no mistakes. I made zero mistakes and I have zero remorse. This would not be an episode of a bit fruity. If I did not give some lashings to conservative LGBT people. Oh God. Let's go out. The first episode I ever did of this podcast was actually talking. You're about to find out. I have a guess. Who's your guess? I guess it's Kaylen Conrad. Just might like issue our documentary about Brianna will. So it's a Brianna will. It's not Brianna will. Oh, who is that? The first episode of this podcast that I ever did was with Natalie Winn who we both love. I love her. And it was about LGBT conservatives. And as I was scrolling, some things that you've posted, you gave some very, I think, well-deserved lashings to trans conservative YouTuber Blair White. Oh. I mean, I'm not being messy. She came for me first. What did she say? She says it was like in 2022 when the only thing that was public about me was the court document that was released and what was said about me in the book. That was all anyone knew about me. And she attributed the fact that I was trans to the fact that my high school had a cross-dressing day, which was news to me. And I had, because I was like, I had literally never heard of this or remembered it. Like maybe it happened that I just wasn't paying attention or was absent that day. Sounds fabulous. But apparently they stopped it the year before I entered the school. Okay. So never even happened. And that's not how people become trans. And she knows that. Why do you think someone like Blair White is so desperate? Yeah. She makes a fuck ton of money in sponsorships. Yeah. And like you should. I keep fucking fucking with the table. I'm sorry. That's okay. It's money. Correct. And like attention. I do think she generally believes what she says, though. You do. Maybe like a slightly less exaggerated version. But like, I mean, there are a bunch of like hosts of like Fox News that are like apparently liberal on this. It's allegedly, which I'm not sure if I believe. Yeah. I mean, my take with that kind of stuff is it's like it actually doesn't even matter if they really believe it or not. It doesn't. What matters is what they say is the result of the exactly the product they put out in the world. And like whether or not you go home and you're like, I'm actually nice behind the scenes. It's like, doesn't matter because you're not nice in front of the scenes. Yeah. Because regardless of what they actually think the product is the product and the product is working as intended. I can Blair White. She is so interesting to me. I mean, she's not that interesting because like you said, it's like once you're making money from that sort of speech, it's like, okay, well, you're just going to do it as long as it's making money. Yeah. She's gone progressively further, right? She's going to want to get that out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I fuck. We're right. Fuck LGBT conservatives. It's it's a fixation that I have because I'm just like, how? How? I and like you said, it's like once they're making money from it. But there are like LGBT conservatives who are also like not making money. That's the thing. And I'm like, there's just, you know, so much self hatred again, it's like delusion. Like they genuinely think that these people like actually tolerate them. That's like, no, they don't. I think it I think it has a lot of delusion. And it's and it's like this optimism about like, no, I'm one of the good ones. I promise I'm one of the good ones, but they'll never see you that way. There's like a desperation from validation because like if someone says, uh, Natalie, when I actually talked about this, if someone says something negative about you, you might be more inclined to believe it's true and conservatives say negative shit about the gays and the Chinese all the time. The gays and the trans people all the time. The gays and the the gays. You can say it. I can. The gay. It's your favorite. That's probably good point. Okay. - Okay, I don't want to be absolutely. You people are not, I mean, that I say the word Chinese a lot. But, I mean, I think it's really funny. - That is not my cross theory. - But why also says trend? Does she? I think. - Probably, but she probably means it negatively. - If someone says something negative about you, especially in regards to your trans identity, 'cause obviously, especially when starting out, you're kind of just spurred for anyone to perceive you as what you perceive yourself as, and you might be going to like really negative places and going to depths that you shouldn't be going to in search for validation, even if it's fake. And I think that might be kind of where some LGBT conservators are at. Obviously, I'm not one. And I'm not like a psychologist or anything. There's not really, correct of me to psychoanalyze an entire group of people. But like, I don't know, maybe that has something to do with something. - A quick break from the episode to give a shout out to Blueland. Blueland was the first sponsor this podcast ever had when it was hardly even a podcast. And we are still going strong. So I haven't pissed them off too much yet. I like for my apartment to look nice. Moreover, I like the things that I used to make my apartment look nice to look nice. When you live in New York City, you get used to living in very small spaces. And it gets very easy for clutter to make itself very known. And bottles of cleaning supplies, laying around everywhere with frankly, garish neon tones, kind of an eye sore. At least for me, at least for me. I care a lot about what my home looks like all the time. And I'm a stickler about these things. Blueland is a line of sustainable home cleaning products on a mission to eliminate single use plastic by reinventing cleaning essentials that are better for you and the planet. And they look really great, which I know is not really the point. But they do. All you do with Blueland is buy one of their forever bottles, beautifully and functionally designed. You fill it with water and you pop in a tablet of whatever cleaning solution you bought, whether that's mirror cleaner, multi-purpose cleaner, hand soap, you name it, and your set. And when you run out of your cleaning solution, all you have to do is pop in a refill tablet, fill the bottle back up with water, and you're ready to go again. And those refill tablets start for as low as $2.25. So not only better on the planet, but easier on your wallet. If you'd like to try Blueland, you can head over to blueland.com/fruity for 15% off your first order. That is blueland.com/fruity. Thanks so much to Blueland as always. And now let's get back to the episode. - You know what, I'm as serious. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be comfy. Jordan Peterson, thank you for making me famous. (laughing) - That was good. - Yeah. - That was really good. (laughing) - But you didn't expect that turn of events, bitch. (laughing) Fucking lobster, bitch. - Stop trying to fuck the lobsters. They're not interested. (laughing) They're not. - That was good. - That was good. - Just because your face is red does not mean you should fuck something that is red. (laughing) - She's got jokes. - Yeah. - She's our reads. - Back to, - It looks like his parents got fucked by a lobster. (laughing) - Is it Jordan Peterson Rose? Tell me what else. - The floor is yours. - No, it makes sense that he's obsessed with hierarchies. 'Cause I bet and bet he likes to be at the bottom of one. - Oh, I'm calling him a lobster. - No, I know it's good. (laughing) - I'm gonna get fucking castles. - I mean, everyone listening to this podcast, here's a fun activity. If you're listening to this podcast right now on Spotify where there's now a comment section or YouTube. - Spotify has a comment section. - Yeah. - Give us your-- - I feel like that's a horrible idea. - Probably, but not for this episode because if you're listening to this, I want you to give us your most creative Jordan B. Peterson lashing. - You like jazz? - I feel like he's someone who would pretend to like jazz for like the socialist team. - Yeah, 'cause he's like, "I'm a real conservative." - 'Cause like, it's like real music. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I feel like he's one of those people who like, so you feel like, "Let's just like Magnum the Stallion." - You are 21 years old. - Uh-huh. - Not to do the like, you know what? I will just say before we started recording, Vivian called me an elder gay. - I did not. (laughing) I did not call you an elder gay. - I said you had like the aura of an elder gay. You're not actually an elder gay. You're 26. - I am 26. But you know what? - You know who's an elder gay? - Jordan B. Peterson. (laughing) - She's quick. - She's quick. - She's way, she's sharp. - You know what? I think it's good to be called an elder, like it's gonna happen at some point. - Yeah. - Every gay talks about this. Like at some point you get called an elder gay. It's a band-aid that needs to be ripped off. - Yeah. - And I am happy for you. - You're 26. - I'm 26. - You have a while before that band-aid gets ripped off though. - Well, okay, so speaking of, you have even longer ahead of you. - I'm not a gay man. - Well, no, that's not what I mean. - I do not have to experience tweeter. No, I want to look like Meryl Streed in the door for his brother. - Hmm. - Like that's my goal. - I was a 21 year old. I don't want to be like, what's next for you? But you have literally your life out of you. Not to sound like a cliche, but. - But what do I want to do next? I really, really enjoy modeling. Specifically, I've been doing some photography modeling. And it sounds vegan to say like, I enjoy modeling. But I do, it's really fun. I really like how you can get really creative with the posing. And I struggle sometimes with serving the correct amount of face. But it's like something that I've really been working on trying to improve. And I really, really enjoy modeling. And I know what it sounds like. - The violin sound vein. - Really fucking good at it. - Yeah, you were and we saw the Teen Vogue cover. - Oh, honey, yeah, I haven't seen shit yet. - Very good. - No, 'cause I have some shit that I've seen the photos for. I'm like, oh. - Eighth, eighth. - The lesbian's we're gonna get. - And the gay's we're gonna get. - And the bars, and the trans. And maybe some heterosexuals. - Maybe. That's like, kind of. - And once you know who I am. - That's like kind of extra curricular though. - Yeah, exactly. - We don't really care what they think. - Yeah, sorry. - Bye. - We care what many mortpuses thinks. - What were you studying in Japan? - I was studying Japanese language. I wanted to be an English teacher or a translator. - Do you still see that somewhere in your future? Or your opinion? - I don't know. Obviously, I don't think that I was gonna last forever. But like, I'm using its opportunity to explore different. I sound like a fucking passion going again. I'm using this opportunity to explore different career paths. I might not have been open to me otherwise. And see what I enjoy, what I don't enjoy. And then obviously I still intend on getting our degree if it's in the same thing we'll see. But like, if fame dies down, then I will continue on the path 'cause I love languages. And if it doesn't, I'm going to be just vibing. - Professionally Vivian? - Yeah. Professionally Vivian. But like, this is like something that happens to very few people and I'm very fortunate to be able to get to experience and like this in this life. So I'm like, I should take advantage of this and see if it's something that I want to take even more advantage of 'cause I really enjoy modeling. And that's something that might not have been open to me otherwise. I mean, probably open but not like sustainable, right? - Sure. - I actually got off the plane in New York and the first thing someone did was like hand me a little card being like, do you have an agent? Do you have a modeling agent? I was like, this is correct. - And if you are a casting director who happens to be listening to this podcast, hire Vivian. - My body is two, you just can't see it right now 'cause I'm draped and blocked. - And the hair and the face. - The hair you can't see, hold on. - You got everything going on. If you work for Pantene and you're listening to this podcast, look at the material. - I look at the material. - Look at the fucking material. - It's organic. - This is a big question maybe. But obviously the climate for LGBT people or trans people specifically is, I don't need to tell you what it is because we're all living through it. - Hello. - And this is kind of corny. But do you have like a message for trans people now that you're out and have this like kind of huge microphone? - Just, okay. When Teen Vogue asked me this, basically some exact question, I quote a contract points. Well, I didn't realize it was putting a movie that I had never heard of. So to me, it's a quote of contract points, which is like, stay strong sister. She'll let the bastard get you down. Which to me with that means is like, be confident in yourself and who you are. And don't let other people's perception of who you are affect your own perception of who you are because you are valid. And you are that bitch. If you want to be that bitch, if you don't want to be that bitch. - Then you don't have to be. - You don't have to be. - Yeah, yeah. - But like, don't let other people's perceptions of you affect what you think of who you are or affect your own perception of who you are. That's my message. I feel like you have so much authority in telling people to not let the bastards get them down because the bastards have certainly tried to get you down. - They did not succeed. - They only contributed to my rights. - Period. Fucking period. - And now I'm a trans icon according to pink news. (laughing) - They called me a trans icon. - Does it feel a little like quick to have that kind of thrust upon you? - Yeah, I've been one years old. That's how I felt when you called me a gay elder. I was like, "I called you the spirit of a gay elder "and I thought you actually wore one." Thank you very much. - Well, you're the spirit of a trans icon. So, we're even, fuck off. (laughing) - Are you the spirit of a trans icon? What if, is that your impression of my voice, my squeaky little voice? - No, your voice is lower than mine. (laughing) - Okay, to wrap it up, I have a couple of pop culture questions. - Oh shoot, okay. - Are you ready? - Yes, absolutely. - Are you, do you listen to pop music? - Yeah. - What is your favorite album out recently? I don't know, Jay should have. about album, you know how the answer was like, I just don't release albums anymore. I never paid attention to, I am part of the problem because I never actually paid attention to what was on what album. - Okay, fair enough. What music are you listening to? - A lot of K-pop and a lot of pop pop. - Have you been following the Blackpink solo releases? - Oh, girl. - I love Jenny. - The thing you should not say about our camera right now. Do you know the scandal? - No. - She's not the end word. There's a video of Blackpink saying the end word. All three of them except for G-Soo. - I love G-Soo. (laughing) - She's my favorite from Blackpink. - You're a ton. - She actually was my favorite from Blackpink, so that hasn't changed. - Well, and she did release a really good single earthquake that I was listening to. - I haven't heard that one. I love Flower. Flower is my favorite, I love the basic pitch. Flower is my favorite song. - Okay, speaking of pop music, thoughts on Katy Perry going to space. (laughing) - Okay, some of this podcast has been heavy. I want to lighten it up a little bit. - My thoughts on Katy Perry going to space is, you know, it's a woman's world, right? - Mm-hmm. - And it kept spinning regardless as to whether or not she was on for five minutes. - Mm-hmm. - And then she came back. - Yeah. - Unfortunately. (laughing) - It's fucking brutal. (laughing) - Katy Perry is like a, and I don't say this with spite, but she's a deeply like millennial figure. - Oh, the most. - She's like, you know, it's very, - You know what, it's a little, I don't know. - Like I just did a thing. - I thought Roy came out in 1999. (laughing) - I didn't realize that it's 2013. - Okay, now you're making me feel like a gay elder. - You're like five years older than we calm down. - Yeah, but we're actually born in 1999. - I was born in 1998. - I was born in 2004. - You thought Roy came out in 1999? - Yeah. - You are a big, you are the big drag race fan. - I am a encyclopedia of drag race knowledge. - In fact, if you're the internet, I have hung out three times this weekend. - Literally completely by accident. I didn't even know what I was doing this. I was like, I came to New York. We were both at the same function. And then we were both at the drag race. - All starts 10. - Premier party, yeah. I know we're here. So this is the third time. This is just like fate has keeps pushing us into a room together. - You could only avoid me for so long. - I think it's vice versa. - Yeah, I'm so thrilled. - I'm so thrilled. - I'm so thrilled. - I'm so thrilled. - On the day of our recording this, it is the premiere of All Stars 10. - Yes. - Who are you rooting for to go all the way? - This is like, I have multiple of their numbers. So if I say so much in particular. - Okay. - The others are gonna be mad. - Okay. - I don't know if they go that much. But I feel like the politically correct answer for me to say is I am rooting for all my dolls. All the dolls, all the trans representation on the season. Aja, Bosco, Cari, Foley. There's so much talent on the season. And there's so many just like iconic figures. Not only from like drag race itself, but also just like in pop culture in general, especially what they've done. Like outside of the show. Like mistress has really exceeded outside of the show. Aja has become such like this huge name in ballroom. And it's just like really, it warrants my heart to see our drag race girls killing it. - The dolls. - Yeah, the dolls. - Mistress is not trans. - No. - No. - She is, this is male. - We're transvestigating mistress is developed for some of the, a bit pretty podcast. - We're fucking dead. - Did you see they transvestigated the pope? The new one? - They're transvestigating the pope? - They literally were like, he, I mean, she is a trans man. But I'm like, baby. I want whatever you're smoking. - No way. - Yeah. - You can't even be the pope anymore without being transvestigated. - People have transvestigated me. And I'm obviously a demorcist woman on the topic of like hate comments that we've received. One of the most memorable ones was my very first TikTok. I did this like kick onto a table 'cause I thought I was like so country and I was like failing it. - You go like 20 million views on Twitter. - Thank you to whatever conservative post of that on Twitter with my dead name 'cause you basically made my TikTok career. So we stay winning, regardless. It was like kicking my leg up onto the table and being like, I'm not just a bitch. I'm a bitch with a backstory. - And someone froze the frame where my leg was the highest in the air and then circled a line of fabric that they thought was my dick and said, I found it. - What the fuck? - Yeah. - What the fuck? - Yeah. - In rad too. It was very YouTuber. - Jesus Christ. - Yeah. - I'm so sorry that that happened to you. - It was so funny. - You laugh it off. - I don't give a fuck. - Yeah. - I thought it was so funny. - That is fuck. - People are psychopaths. - It wasn't my dick. I mean, they thought my dick was like enormous. - Like that. They should stay. Like, 'cause I don't think they realized how tall I was. They, the thing in the red circle that was like a line of fabric that was like 12 inches. - It's creepy. - No. - People are fucking crazy. - Yeah. - Can I end on sort of a cheesy pageant question? - Yes. - Given everything. Personally, politically, nationally. - Yeah. - Is something that's giving you hope and joy right now? - The symbol. - Fuck off. (laughing) What's giving joy is because I am a trans icon. And when I am crowned a trans icon, I will find a way for world's peace. (laughing) - Okay. - I just stopped referencing all the brain rot that this podcast has given me. - What's something that's giving me energy? It's giving me life is drag. I love drag. - I love drag. - I do love drag. - Yeah. I'm going back to what I am. I'm gonna make it my mission to see like as many drag shows as possible. - Maybe in general, son. Thank you for being here on the Abit Pretty podcast. - Thank you for having me on the Abit Pretty podcast. - Before we go, where can people find you and where can people hire you? - I'm distracted by the fact that you're posing like a flamingo. - Okay. You know what? You sitting in these chairs for a long enough and it gets weird. - No, it's very like. (laughing) - We're in every boat. (laughing) It was happening. - I heard every single thing in your knee just pop. (laughing) - It sounded like a fucking crunch bar. (laughing) Like those chocolate things with the rice, crispy inside. - Sure, sure. - Like when you crunched down on one, that's what it was giving. - Thank you. - You're welcome. - Where can people find you? - My TikTok is Vivaleness. My Instagram is also Vivaleness. And it's like the word Vivaleness, but with a vid at the front because I'm very clever. - Do you wanna give a page and goodbye to the camera? - Honorary judges and members of the esteemed panel. This is Vivian Wilson, hailing from the Golden State of California. Thank you so much for your time. (laughing) - That was really fucking impressive. - Yeah, it only took me eight tries. (laughing) - And that was my morning conversation with Vivian Jenna Wilson. It is a hard time to be a 21-year-old girl. It is a hard time to be transgender. It is, I imagine, a hard time to have that person be your father. And it was just a real joy getting to know Vivian as Vivian, not as a pawn in a culture war or a conversation that is about so much more than her, but just as her, a 21-year-old person. I hope you enjoyed getting to sit down with her as much as I did. I hope you don't mind that this week we took a break from all of the hardcore internet analysis deep dives to just talk to someone who so often gets spoken for, especially by people who don't have her best interest at heart and just give her the mic to speak for herself. I love you so much. Thanks for listening today. And until next time, stay fruity.