A messy conversation about divorce

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Getting married under the age of 25. You have a higher rate of divorce by up to 25%. We were children when we started dating but there's like pros and cons right? Compromise wasn't exactly possible. That was like a hurdle in our relationship. We had it overcome and we did we figured it out. I got my way. Are men or women more likely to cheat? Let me look that up. Why men? Because they think we're their BP. What would you say has been the hardest season to grieve and let go of and recognize that part of our life is done. Hey before we get started on today's episode I wanted to ask you guys to just take a couple seconds of your time to leave a review for our podcast. It means the world to us and if you're not subscribed to the show if you wouldn't mind just tapping the subscribe button. Actually the majority of the people that watch the show aren't even subscribed. According to the data that's probably you watching this right now. So please take it takes one second. Hit subscribe. We'd love to have you part of this community. Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to unplanned a marriage and family podcast. And today we are talking about divorce. We're going to have a unfiltered messy conversation about it. We're about marriage and divorce. Which is actually got a foot because I had people submit some questions today and someone literally thought we were divorced which is so sad. No I feel like that's I thought that I was like you're literally going to make it sound like we're getting divorced. We're not getting divorced guys. We're just having a conversation about it which I think it's actually so important to have these conversations in marriage because if you avoid uncomfortable conversations in your marriage it's just going to grow like a disconnect between you. Okay I actually was like looking at what we had prepared for this episode and the thing that surprised me the most because I feel like we talk gosh we talk endlessly about young marriage. Apparently getting married under the age of 25. Do you think that changes how we should advise our kids on marriage? Like if we have a kid that comes to us wanting to get married like we did when you're 19. Are we going to encourage them to wait? Because then there's data that shows if you cohabitate if you cohabitate there's a likelihood that then you split up too. We are saying that if you live together before you're married you're more likely to get divorced. Yeah that's what Arthur Brooks told us to and there's research to support that. I think it all boils down maybe this just makes me sound like a hopeless romantic but I think it just all boils down to when you meet your person. Yeah you do sound like a hopeless romantic. Do you want to describe me as well? Well here's the thing babe like we got married freaking young but we're we're also nearly a decade in almost seven years of marriage this summer seven years of marriage and you know I do think I think I do I want to say I want to say it's probably there's like pros and cons right like I feel like it's harder because we've changed so much because we were children when we started dating yeah but like we also have grown up together. I actually think the determining factor on whether or not you stay married boils down to whether or not you both are willing to work on it. Oh yeah that's good. Snaps. I'm snapping for that. And you have to actually be willing to work on it because it's like and there's some I mean that that is some things you could maybe decide like I am not willing to work on this anymore. Yeah like that's valid but it's that's as simple as it's like if are you willing to work on it. Yeah now there's the things that are like maybe you shouldn't work on this anymore like it you know what I mean I honestly think that you kind of hit the nail in the head there and we pretty much can just end the podcast there. Thanks for tuning in everybody. No but people have to be willing to like one person yeah I feel like a lot of times in these marriages where are like one person gives up. One person is like I've been working I've been working on this for so long yeah and you're not putting in any effort yeah so it's like what is the point anymore and I can see where you I mean heck I probably come to that conclusion if it was like if this wasn't a two-way street you know what I mean and so obviously so many things in life complicated I think kids are probably the biggest thing they're complicated yeah yeah it's really sad you guys I don't know if you knew this but January is actually considered divorce month because there's so many divorces that happen after the holidays and there's just a post-holiday spike in divorce inquiries that lawyers report and they think this is because of like stress finances relationship strain also we're gonna put all of our sources that we talk about in the description we're not journalists we're not experts we'll bring on journalists and experts in the show we haven't been divorced either because we are only seven years in yeah oh six and a half which is actually kind of terrifying because if you look at what the facts say apparently the average length of marriage marriages like that end of divorce is eight years so we we still have another year to get to the average and another year and a half the average yes so the average is eight years yeah it says at right here the the the fact is average marriage length before divorce in the U.S. is about eight years and two thirds of divorces in the U.S. are initiated by women which that was also both of those surprise both of those surprised me a lot I would have thought that men were the one initiating divorces no I think men are more prideful like they're like I don't want to wave the what the white flag like I don't want to be the one to call this also want to know are men or women were likely to cheat that's actually a question that I want to know let me look that up what do you think main why men because because why I don't want to say this because I literally just sound always how I don't want to be man hating they think they're BP gosh dang it babe you're right so this is according to if studies.org it's demographics of infidelity in America and so according to this research men are more likely to cheat it also depends on like the age so if you're looking at men in between the ages of wait what this is interesting okay wait let me take a screenshot of this graph we'll have to throw it up on the screen so this is a gender cheating gap a graph that shows you when like our men or women were likely to cheat so between the ages of 18 and 29 women are more likely to cheat what it changes yeah and then it changes to men for ages 30 to 39 and so on you isn't that interesting so this is a graph of like percentage reported having sex with someone other than a spouse while married and it's higher for women for the age range that we're in I bet these are women that aren't having kids don't have oh so you think that like once women have kids are less likely who's got the time who's got the time when you have children who's got the time to go sleep around who's got the will who's got the will of the desire okay you are right though because I think it says 18 to 29 but I think I think by age 29 if you look at this graph it looks like it's moving closer and closer to men cheating men women start to have kids and here's the thing here's why I think men hop up then because men are starting to get a little shallow their woman is going through so many body changes like I think hormonal changes so they're like I gotta bail and find someone that you know do you know what my theory is for the men yeah I think men are like like my wife is putting the kids first which is true I think a lot of couples fall in that trap I was taking a much more shallow approach I think they're just like oh they're pregnant postpartum their breastfeeding like things aren't looking the same and so they want they want a new specimen according to the data so legal professionals see a 20 to 30 percent increase in in calls and divorce filings post holidays and who wants to tell the family that they're splitting up 100 percent 100 percent like if if you know it's coming so say it's like October right and you're like we're done this is over like you're not gonna do anything like you know that the holidays are coming up you got things giving you got Christmas all these gatherings I'm still fine I feel like that's probably I feel like November December yeah I feel like November December people are like fed up and they're like we'll wait till January we don't want to go through that uncomfortable conversation but here's the thing it's not like they made that decision most of the time probably November's in where it's like it's it's from fractures for years and years 100 percent and that's why I think the most important muscle you can exercise in a marriage is the resolution muscle every little conflict can and be like potentially a little fracture in the marriage. And so those things, I think are the things that add up to a divorce eventually rather than necessarily like one major event that just like, you know, just brought the whole thing down. We had a resolution last night. - What was a resolution? Wait, what do you wanna bring up? What did we have? - I got fine bringing this up 'cause it was me. I was clearly the problem. - Did we have a discreet? Oh, yes, wait, yes. I know what you're talking about now. - I was being royal. - Filling the blank, okay. - No, you literally, what did you say to it? You came up to me. - No, no, no. - And here's the thing that's so frustrating is that I, in the moment, the whole time this wheel is going, it's like a wheel going down a hill. It's like, I see that we're picking up speed, and I see that we're going down fast. And I, I know it's wrong. Couldn't stop it. Or, you know what, let's be honest. Let me take responsibility here. I didn't choose to stop it until I was like, you know what, I didn't need to remove myself. So then I just put my little headphones in after the kids went to bed, read my Kindle, and then I just sat and pondered. And I was like, that was so unnecessary. That was way over dramatic. You were a monster for about an hour and a half. - You're talking about yourself, or you're talking about me or yourself? - About myself. - Okay, I was a little monster for about an hour and a half. No, you actually handled it super well. - I handled it well? - Yeah. - Thank you. - You were just kind of like, I think you were just kind of like, this is crazy. So I don't even, I'm afraid to interact. - You did go from zero to 100 real quick. - I turned into a pillow. I didn't have to do with you. It was just like everything in the moment. It just felt like so much. And it actually wasn't that big of a deal, but it just felt like so much. And so once the kids went to bed, put my headphones on, read my Kindle. And then finally I was like, let's go resolve this. And we went and had like a quick, it didn't even need to be a long combo. 'Cause like, we have this muscle of resolution. And I feel like that, like last night was like, such an example of like so much progress. You know, maybe early on in marriage, it's like, okay, we would have had to like think about that for like a day and then require it for like a day. And then had like two days of like deep conversations. And it's like now it's like, we're able to like, stop, rethink, come back together. And you were so quick to like, respond though to that. - I think we laughed. We laughed together. - Yeah, you didn't like me out. - That was always really fun. That's actually, I really love when we are able to like, rekindle things and laugh about it. Because that's, I want to say in the Gotman Institute, they talk about how and couples are able to like, rekindle their love and overcome a conflict with like laughter. And like, they make the, I forget the exact term. - And they make love. (laughing) - Which is always great. - That always makes everything just a little bit better. - Could be a little awkward to talk about 'cause our sister-in-law is in the room right now. - No, I'm not talking a lot about it. - Oh gosh. Yeah, what is up with women in talking about sex? I feel like, I feel like you and your girlfriend talk about sex way more than me and my, my dude friends. - Oh, I know it's fun. - And also, why is it that you say you have girlfriends, but like, guys are never like, yeah, my boy friends. No dude is like, yeah, they're like my boys. - My, my bro, my homies. - No, I want to call them my girls. I honestly call my sister and lose my girls. I've started that recently. - Why is it not gay for women to say that, but it is for, for guys? I don't get why that is. - Sometimes you just throw me a question. I'm like, I don't know the patriarchy. - Yeah, but okay, you guys talk about sexful in time. Talk to me about that. Why is that a thing? - It's, it's fun for me to talk about. - I get, but it's, what's interesting to me is like, men, and myself included. - I can't put it in it. - Think about it, probably 10 times more than you do. I think, I don't know. - That's true, that's why I'm like, why aren't you talking about it? - Yeah, I don't know why, maybe we don't want it, maybe we just want to do it and we don't want to talk about it. Like maybe I don't want to talk to other men about. - Maybe we want to talk about it and we don't want to do it. - I just want to, I want to talk to you. Hey, you know what, I want to talk. Oh my gosh. - Happy. - Let's just talk about it and let's not. - No, see, I want to do it. - Let's say we're going to, but let's not. - That's actually a really good point. You want to talk? I don't want to talk about it. I just want to do it. But I would love to talk about it with you. Like that's kind of hot. I don't know. Be like, that's what. No, we're going too far enough. - Talk about the best time to laugh though. That's how you know you've been married for a little bit longer than like the honeymoon stage. - Yeah. - As when you can just like laugh during it. - Yes. - And that's where hilarious. - And speaking. - But some people don't like it when they laugh during integrals. - Both of us have definitely passed gas. In the middle of spicy time for sure. I don't know what's up. But we're too comfortable around each other. - That transition. I thought we were talking about the honeymoon stage. - What thought you were talking about how like how we laugh during those times? - Yeah. Let's talk about common hard periods. This is kind of like analyzing the different times that people-- - The exit times for marriage. - Yeah. People exit marriage. So, okay, if you're looking at year one through two, that's considered like the end of the honeymoon phase. And the initial pretend phase fades, revealing daily quirks and responsibilities leading into clashes over routines and expectations. I've heard of a couple of getting divorces in like one to two years. But I feel like that's pretty uncommon. - Really? - I want to say so. - I also was going to say I thought it was the highest. - No, I feel like the highest is like the seven year itch that everyone talks about. - Oh. - Which this is our seventh year of the summer. - Oh my gosh. - Well, here's the thing. I don't count that. I already think we passed seven years because we were together for three years before. - True. But I think it's-- - And we were like together together. - But I think people are talking about like marriage marriage though. Because it's like we weren't committed. - Okay, well, once you make that commitment-- - We're going to start going to therapy more. - I think it's great that we go to therapy because I think it's like getting an oil change on your car. - Well, I was actually going to talk about that. I don't think everyone needs as much therapy as we need. But I think it's the fact that I'm going to transition into this later. - Yeah. - But I think it's because of our occupation. - Oh, that's really good. - We need to be safeguarding it. - We're literally talking about some of the most vulnerable details of our life on the internet. - I think this is the reason why it keeps freaking-- - It's because of you freaking dude. - Cash darn cash darn mic. - No, I say this jokingly because I think it's essential blessing that we get to work together. - Yeah. - But then we also need to like literally safeguard the crap out of it because we do know that this is probably a liability to it. - Oh, 100%. - No, 100%. I think like we get in more arguments about like filming schedules and content. And like I don't think we have arguments about stuff outside. Like I feel like work is where we have arguments in my opinion, right? - Yeah, so that's why we're in therapy. - But then also I think I noticed from my experience-- - You gotta get over those things. - Yeah, you do, but I think like the hardest phase that we've ever been through. Well, we've had some different ups and downs. We've had family members lost. We had our miscarriage. We've had a lot of stuff. But I think for my experience, I think the hardest phase was like the newborn stage mixed with then dealing with 202. - Is that when most people exit? What's the statistics on that? - Okay, so let's keep talking about this. So that's year one through two, end of the honeymoon stage. Then we have year three to five, again, all of our sources that we're giving this information from in the description. Year three to five, reality sets in. So you have disillusionment, grows as reality hits, major discussions about finances, housing, and family planning, often surface. Gosh, I mean, I feel so blessed Abby that you are a frugal queen and that you don't-- - Oh, thank you. - Obviously we spend more money now than we spent, you know, a couple of years ago. But I still like, I appreciate that like when you go and buy clothes, you'll be like, since I'm the one who like checks our rocket money and checks the numbers and make sure we're hitting our investment goals and hitting our savings goals. You're like, "Hey, am I good to go spend, you know, might be like $500 an apricot beyond clothes." I'll be like, "Oh, you know, that's what it usually is, right?" Like clothes are expensive and I appreciate how you-- - With the clothes I like. - Like I think we like run purchases by each other, which I like, I appreciate-- - Oh yeah, well we have transparency and finance. - Yeah. - I think that's like the best policy-- - There's random things, like I think I bought a mat that says, you know, take off your shoes and I don't think I ran that purchase by you, which that ended up being the mat, the floor mat we have in our garage. - Yeah, the mission was not the cost of the mat. - You just hated the mat. - Who was just-- I was like, "People can keep their shoes on in my house." - Okay. - But yeah, I think we're pretty good at just like making sure we're communicating about that. And I think the communication aspect of marriage is huge. - But we did have conflicts arise when it came to buying houses. - Oh, yeah. - So that is still related to finances and to some capacity. But also it's like, yeah, this bigger picture thing of like we are establishing our life together, like where and how we're going to do it and what we intend for this to look like. I can see where that, because it's one thing to say these things when you're dating and engaged, but it's another thing when you've gone through life a little bit more. Like you're a lot of change your mind, and I think that's what happens probably in that three to five years. It's like, okay, well, I know we like dreamed about having this many kids. - Yeah. - Are we dreaming of starting now, but I'm not ready. I don't think we are where we're at financially to buy a house, but I think we are. I think that's a hard time. - Yeah. - Big decisions. - If I think about the only money, quote unquote, "fight" that we've ever had was probably buying the house that we're in now. Because we didn't technically need it. - I wanted it. - Abby just wanted it, which is fine. This is a hard work in women. She just launched a new podcast, guys. Okay, go give her some love. - No, I didn't see, it had more to do with the location. - Yeah, and I think we're in a location that there's a lot more families. We're also not as isolated before. - There's a better location for our kids. - Yeah, which we've all talked about before, but it wasn't necessarily a need. But that was our hurdle in our relationship if we had it overcome. And we did. And we figured it out. - I got my way. - You're a good man. - I love you so much. - You're a good man. - Okay, so next, common hard periods, if we look at years five to eight, which that's what we're in right now. Okay. - Okay, wait. So it sounds like every single year is a hard period. Because you said one, two, three to five, five to eight. So this timeline that I'm talking about right now is just pointing out the difficulties that you experience in every phase. - Okay, okay. - And this is generalizing. This is not everyone's having kids. Not everyone's doing this. But yeah, this is over generalizing what a lot of couples feel. - They're probably just speculating on data, like why we see these jumps. - But yeah, years five to eight, a lot of couples experience high stress from childcare, differing parenting styles, work-life balance, resentment, can peak. It's funny, work-life balance is why we had the argument, why that we had the little thing last night that was about, 'cause you had worked late, and I think that was frustrating you. So I find that really interesting that it brings, it's like it knew our minds. This is just from the internet, this is from websites. - Some of us are living unique lives. - And yeah, all of us, we're all so much more like than we are different, but. So yeah, work-life balance, and then resentment, can peak coinciding with divorce spikes. That's why the seven-year-ich. - My foot is so distracting. - Get that out of here. - This is my foot, okay. I apologize, I'm gonna move my foot down. - You're welcome. - I'm moving, I'm putting my dogs away, everybody. Sorry, Addy. - Soccer. - So yeah, that's where you get the seven-year-ich, but guys, this is very fascinating. Last but not least, year 10, according to this research, is peak dissatisfaction. - What? I was gonna think that was the best year. (laughing) - A Brigham Young University study found the highest dissatisfaction around this time as festering issues become major complaints, often linked to women feeling overwhelmed by chores and kids. - Well, that's. - This study could be biased. If this is from Brigham Young University, I know a lot of LDS, Mormon families, if you're 10 years in, you probably have like seven kids at that point, right? - They can say that they were only studying people. - I'm guessing, yeah, I'm guessing they're studying the entire US, but-- - They probably have a better population to study research. - But, you know, I feel like we've gotten into a decent spot with two, but I'm like, man, as we grow our family. - Well, they say you have to grieve your marriage that you had every time you have a new kid, or anything something, anytime something big happens in your life, that marriage is done, a new marriage is starting. You have to rebuild your marriage. You can't just try to carry the same marriage into that new phase of life. - You heard that from John Loney, didn't you? - Yes, I did. - Well, what would you say has been the hardest season to grieve and let go of and recognize, okay, we're moving forward. That part of our life is done. I'm gonna go first. I could tell you right away-- - You're gonna feel like I need to keep my private. - For me, it was like, like, reality hit. Once we had Ogi, 'cause it was like such a whirlwind with like, we had, it was like, boom, griffin. Like, I didn't even feel like I got a chance to come up for air before, like, oh, you pregnant again with your second kid. I think around like when Ogi was born, I had this panic moment of like, oh my gosh, my life is not my own anymore. - Yeah. - And I think, yeah, I wish I would have had John Loney there to be like, hey, it's gonna be okay. - He would have been like, yeah, it's done, brother. - It's done, brother. But guess what, there's good things in the future coming for you, you know, and like this, this stressful period of the newborn stage is temporary. This stressful period of having two essential newborns at the same time is temporary. - Yeah. - And that would have helped me out. I think I, you know, I loved the idea of us like, leaving Missouri, being on the beach in Hawaii, me surfing every day, seeing my smoke and hot wife in a bikini all the time, because we're going to the beach all the time, even us i.e. bowls, living in a little cute surf, surf or shack on the beach. Like, we had this amazing life, and then I'm like, I'm freaking living in the desert, and I've got two Rugrats that I have to keep alive 24/7, and I don't have any time myself. That like freaked me out, but we got through it. Now I'm like fighting myself to not love my kids more than you, because it's like, it's so important that I love you and put you above our children, because that's like the key to a happy, healthy relationship. - That's the trap you can't fall into. - Yeah, you can't fall into that trap of like, - I was learning from Tony Robbins. - Tony Robbins talked to us about that. - And maybe people. - And Arthur Brookes and John. - Nobody's so refreshing, because I do think that the culture is pulling you, especially moms, to put the kids first. - You can't do that. - Put the kids first, and it's like. - It's dangerous. I mean that you're not taking care of your children, taking really good care of your kids, but it means you're taking amazing care of your marriage. - As you're raising your children. - Your kids want to see you put your spouse first. They do. That makes them feel safe. - And I agree, I felt that way as a kid, when like, I mean, I've experienced that. And so I do think like, we can circle back to like, the hardest part for me, I think in our marriage, was when we were just on completely different pages about like where we wanted to be, like location-wise. - Yeah. - And I just felt so much guilt, I talked about this on always here, but I felt so much guilt because I felt like I was in the way of you experiencing your dream life. - Yeah. - Because I wasn't experiencing, like I was like, I just don't think I can thrive here. And so just like being in that tough position of like, okay, where should we literally locate ourselves? - Yeah, that was a hard season. - That was hard, 'cause it's just so hard when you are on a completely different page with your spouse. Like you're like, I see you thriving, like basically, like so happy and so like excited about life where you're at. And just like me really trying to get on board, and I just like can't. - Yeah. - And I just felt, I felt so guilty about that. And so that was like just a really selfless thing of you to do like that compromise of like, that was a hard thing where I was like really compromised, wasn't exactly possible. Like it was either like, one person gets their way, or one person doesn't, you can't, like, we could split the difference. - And that's part of it too, like, yeah, you're, I mean, it's funny here, and you say that yeah, 'cause like moving out of four, I really wasn't a compromise. Or moving to this house wasn't really a compromise, but I think there's times of marriage where you just have to fully abandon what you want. - Well, I think that's where compromise comes. It's like you get this one, I'm gonna get this one. You get this one, I'm gonna get this one. So I'm like, you can always split the difference, you know? But yeah, I think that was the hardest. I think that's like that year, three to five. - I will say, this is a random thought I'm having right now, but if you yourself are going through a hard season in your relationship, I don't know why this always like, just puts reality and perspective for me, but I love looking back at old videos of Abby and I, if I'm ever in a season of, you know, just feeling overwhelmed, or maybe we're having a disagreement that day, if I ever look back at like old videos of us, it just kind of puts everything in perspective. And I'm like, man, we're these two kids. - We freaking love each other. We're these two just crazy, like infatuated individuals that sent it, got married in college. We were, how the heck legally do we even do that? But we did, I mean, like we got married so young, we've, we've adventure the world together and it's always been about you, like the entire reason I ever even did this freaking YouTube channel was because of you, like it's always been you. So it just kind of puts it all in perspective for me. - Yeah. - And apparently, like when we've talked to different experts about divorce, when I've read books about what leads to marriages ending, often times you have contempt, contempt apparently is one of the largest indicators, but there's also the aspect of couples not being able to remember the good days, not being able to remember a time where they were happy with their partner. And so that's why I like looking back at old videos 'cause it kind of just tells your brain you're wrong. Look at you, you're happy right here. You love your life right here. This can be you again. This is in store for you again. You're just in this season or a very brief, tiny little moment of time where you're frustrated and this is just a little blit. Life isn't perfect, get over it, figure it out. - I'm lucky that I have a husband that sees life that way and he marries that way and prioritizes it like that and yeah, I do think back to me when I first got married and I'm like, gosh, we basically were gambling. - Yeah, we kind of did. - We kind of, we really weren't, because we had like had so many discussions, we had mentors, we had so many long deep talks about like, why are we doing this? Like all these different things. But yeah, in the end like people change over time and it's just important that you change together. - You know it's so interesting. Do you know which month Kim Kardashian and Kanye West got divorced? Guess what month? - Anyway. - It was actually February, but still like it just again, beginning of the year. - Not February, that's a sad one 'cause there was Valentine's Day in the year. - I know, maybe Kim just decided that she didn't want to celebrate one more Valentine's Day with Kanye. - Mmm, actually that's sad. - I also think he was going through a lot of mental health stuff which like, I think was just hard on them, but I don't want to speculate about them. We're here to talk about us. Abby, what do you think are the most cited reasons for divorce? - Cheating. - Yep, infidelity, okay? - I read this thing. - Oh wait, you already know what these are. - I remember lack of communication. Which, that's so broad. - You can't file for that. - Poor communication. Well I think if you're unable to communicate effectively with your partner, that's the disaster. - No, no, no, no. I feel like everyone struggles with communication at times. - Okay. - And then it's like, you just got to get back on, you know, I think that's like that's early down the road and then it's conspired. - Yeah, if you're doing some poor communication, go to a freaking therapy dude. I think they're still so much. - It's expensive. - Oh yeah, it's therapy is expensive. - And a lot of, I feel like a lot of times one of the spouses is like super against it still, even nowadays. - Okay, even just having friends that are also married, they put things in a reality. - That's true. - That's actually one of my best pieces of advice for a newlyweds is to surround yourself with other married people. - Yeah. - That have marriages that you also admire. - Yes, no, I think when I'm hanging out with my buddies who I literally just met because they're the husbands of the people that you're friends with at the gym. - But they're your friends now. - But they're my friends now, we all have the same problems. It's like, you guys have that same stupid thing happen to you. Oh my gosh. Yes, what's up with this? Your wife complained about that too. Oh my gosh, we all have the same problems. (laughing) - You just need a gripe. - I think a little bit. little bit of that is okay, everyone's in a while. - No, I think it's healthy. - But you don't wanna like, you don't wanna trash, you wanna speak highly of your spouse. - Totally. - Yeah, but I think it's okay. - There's way to do it. - Yeah, there's like a, there's a healthy. - There's way to be honest about like, we're having this thing come up and like, that feels productive and then one that's like, okay, you're just trying to bash on your wife. - Abby pulled up an article about the occupations. - Well, I was just curious about this because like more on the topic of thinking about, I'm like, gosh, this has been on my mind a lot recently, thinking about the fact that a lot of people like couples and families that are on reality TV break apart. - Why is that? - I think about every TLC family and every, you know. - We just had Lydia Plath on the show, her parents got a divorce. We've had, you know, a very sweet couple, Zach, why am I liking on their names right now? - Tori? - Tori and Tori. - The roll off. - Zach and Tori roll off. - Divorced. - Zach's parents. - Devorced. - Divorced. - Like all of these, it's just, it's running rampant on the reality TV side. - Social media couples too. - It's starting to happen on the social media side too. - Yes, so many. - So that's the first thing, man. I'm like, obviously these things haven't made it to the list yet. Also, they're kind of niche still, like. - Yes. - So that it's not gonna probably make it on lists like this, but which was more reason why I said, like, that's why. Like, I feel like we wouldn't really be in, like we're probably gonna marriage therapy like once every three, four weeks. - Yeah, it's like a once a month thing that we do. - But we probably wouldn't need that. I mean, I don't think we would choose to do that if we didn't work together. - Did you know what the percentage of marriages and divorces? - It's like 50%. - Yeah, it's like 40 to 50. So that's, yeah, that's what I read. - Okay, so here are the occupations. Some of them, I was like, yeah, that checks out. The other ones, I was pretty surprised by. One of them was bartenders. - That kind of makes sense. - Yeah. - If you're a bartender, I feel like you're in a flirtatious environment where- - This is also over-generalization, but you're working late nights. - Yes. - You're in a very casual atmosphere where alcohol is involved. - People are dressed, a lot of flirting, people making dumb decisions when they're drunk. - Like you have weird hours too, so it's easy to like- - I feel like if you're a bartender, it'd be safer to be a bartender with your spouse. Like if you're bartender together, like you see your- - Well, I'm sure there's a lot of bartenders and healthy, happy, committed relationships, but this is just a pattern. - That's true. - Military supervisors. - Interesting. - Now this one is interesting, 'cause I know military in general doesn't have a great reputation for- - Yeah, I have heard about that. I think there's a lot of people that get married in their spouse. - There's that being away from your spouse. A lot of cheating goes on in Fideli, but then there's also the aspect of if you get married in the military, you get more money from the military so people will get married and then divorce. - Oh yeah, I guess you're saying like, maybe they weren't, they should've thought very different. - They did it for the money, yeah, yeah. - But this was supervisors. So it says military supervisors have difficult, high-stress jobs that send them all over the world. So I guess this is the same reason, I guess, it's like maybe non-supervisors, but people in the military experience. Next is medical and healthcare workers. I'm sure that's also related to probably- - That's actually surprising to me, medical workers. - Stress, and they work really like long, odd hours. - Yeah, I guess working odd hours, especially if you're doing nights. - You're never home? - Not being home, that's sad. - Yeah, they're really sad. - Medical and healthcare workers sacrifice so much. - Yeah. - And so I can easily see where it's like, I can no longer prioritize this marriage because this occupation is like- - Do they have any stuff? - They have stats on these people. Like, do they have any numbers associated with the medical and healthcare workers? - No, but I do know that there's even within the medical field, like certain jobs, I think it's like brain surgeons, like have a really high divorce rate. - Why brain surgeons? - I don't know, I don't, I can't, I'm not, I'm not here to speculate on the data. - Yeah. - But, and I don't even quote me on that. But I'm like, that's just what it's saying. - You're so pretty as distracting right now. - That's ridiculous. - You need to go ahead and like, wear some sunglasses, you have really pretty eyes. - Next is gaming service workers, which is like people like running casino games and stuff. It's like, I feel like that's kind of in the same category as it is like bartenders, same type of atmosphere. Flight attendants. - Why would a flight it, I guess? - They're traveling a lot. - Yeah. - They're in new locations. No one would tell them. You could get away with it so easily. It's like, I was in Belgium, no one saw me. - So then who, which occupations have the best rates? - Wait, let me finish these really quick. - Marital success. - This one, this one is weird to me. - Tell marketers and switchboard operators. - What? - What is a switchboard operator? Is that something from like the 1800s? - I don't know. - A switchboard. - It says they work completely different jobs, but the details surrounding these jobs are the same. They sit in a chair all day and deal with phones. Tell marketers attempt to sell products or services and switchboard operators connect callers to other people who can solve their problems. They're both speaking with people on the phone all day and people on the other end are likely stressed out or unhappy. Many people find these professions to be unfulfilling and nobody likes to spend the entire day getting yelled out by strangers. It's hard to cope with a job. You don't like that leaves you feeling exhausted at the end of the day. - Okay, babe, that is my hot take. All right. I think way more than like the marriage itself or the relationship itself, I think outside factors play a much bigger role in divorce than people, like. - Oh, for sure. - It's not necessarily the marriage that's hard. It's that life is hard. - Life is hard. - And you're both individuals living life and you're showing up in your marriage with these problems. - And you're responding differently to the situation which then can build resentment, which can lead to conflict, which can lead to one person being like, why are you reacting this way? Why, I saw you smile. Are you, how are you happy right now? And we just, this thing just happened, right? - Right. - So I think when life gets hard, I think, you know, we had Brooklyn and Bailey on the podcast two years ago and something that they said was, they don't think marriage is hard. They think life is hard. Now what, 100% agree with that. - Totally. I'll go through the rest of this. Let's really quick though. - The dancers and choreographers. This one surprised me. Massage therapists. - That's why, that's surprising. That's funny. - And this one's really weird. Textile knitting and weaving machine operators. - These are some weird-- - Don't find yourself in that profession. - If you want to be a textile machine operator, don't do it. You will, your relationship will - It's that there's no clear correlation or speculation as to why this industry is so heavily affected by divorce. They're like, we don't know, but very interesting. And I feel like, you know, if we were to look onto reality TV and-- - Yeah. - Social media people. - So we've talked, we've talked a lot about divorce. It seems like-- - We didn't talk. - We didn't have some positive stats on this. - Yeah, it seems like marriage is doomed. It's like, hey, is marriage even worth it, right? - It's not even worth it. - Why the heck, a lot of people listening into this, probably married, probably want to get married or know some of that's married, is marriage worth it. Well, before we get into the positive stuff, let's talk about grade divorce. - Grade divorce is actually a trend. - Going back to the negative. - It's divorce rates for people that are like 50 plus. I mean, it's doubled the rate of divorce and people that are 50 plus has doubled since 1990. While those, while the rate for people that are 65 plus has nearly tripled according to Pew research, is that not crazy? - Well, that's really sad. - Yeah, so why is grade divorce increasing? Increased longevity, people live longer and are less willing to stay in unhappy marriages for decades, according to Purdue University. - That's a weird way to analyze that. - Generational. - I'm gonna live at least 30 more years. - Well, if you're marriage sucks and you don't like it, I mean, I guess. - Well, but then that flip side of that is that they're saying that it's someone that's like, 80 is like, well, I hate this person, but I'm gonna die soon, so I'll just stay in it. That's a weird way to analyze that data, in my opinion. - And then we have the emptiness factor. Couples may realize they have little in common once the children leave their home. That's really sad. - That is sad, and I can see that happening. - And that's why right now, with us having kids, we put us first, we prioritize our marriage, and we put us first, we love each other more than they did. - It's something we have to constantly remind ourselves, 'cause it's so easy just to live into that. - Well, I think it's almost an evolutionary thing, where your brain, once you're, it's prioritizing your offspring, and you're like, I gotta, you know, this is my legacy, this is what's gonna keep spreading my DNA, you know? - We also have to clarify this, means that, this doesn't mean you get to be a bad parent. - Oh no, not at all. - You're gonna be an amazing parent, but I think it makes you a better parent when your kids see you loving your spouse. - Right, right, right, great. - You can do both. - You can do both. - You can do both. - It makes you a better father, and a better example to your young boys, when you show them how to love their mom. - Yeah, and you don't, and you don't just tell them, you lead by example, your kids are watching you at all times. - Yeah, and also I don't think that one has to come at the cost of the other. - Yeah. - Both can be important in the same breath. - Yes. But with all of that negative news about divorce, it's very sad, very scary. - Exactly finally transitioned into the positive, dangled that early. - These are some uplifting stats about marriage. So marriage actually comes with higher thriving rates. Married people, especially ages 25 to 50, are significantly more likely to thrive. And then also there's a happiness boost, which this makes sense to me. Like I've heard of married couples because they're checking in on each other, they're making sure that the person's taking their medicine or going to therapy or getting checked out if they're sick. Like people live longer when they're married too. There's a bunch of data and research to support that. But not only does it make you live longer, but there's also, there's research to support people being happier when they're married. So married individuals report being significantly happier with some analysis is showing them 30 points happier than unmarried counterparts. - Points, wow. - I guess that's just, I guess the points is a percentage. And this is again research from Gallup and life satisfaction studies show married people report higher overall life satisfaction and happiness. - Interesting. - I love that. - I feel like that all is not surprising. Like that all makes sense. - Yeah, so there's a lot of health benefits, a lot of positive feelings and emotions that you get with marriage. And I think while people can sometimes like, It's easy to win life. it's not going your way, just to find something to gripe about. Oh, it's my marriage, and this could be better, Homer. - No, it's like maybe your life is just hard, 'cause life is hard, and has nothing to do with your spouse at all. Or maybe you're the problem too. Like, that's a reality I've had to face myself whenever I'm facing a struggle or a challenge in marriage, and it's like, "Hey, how am I being a good spouse?" - That's very mature. - What am I doing to love and serve Abby? Like, if I want her to be this perfect person for me, maybe I first need to be this perfect person for her. - I actually have to go to the bathroom, right? - Oh yeah, you can go pee real quick. - I can't wait to pee real quick. - Well, guys, while Abby's taking a quick potty break, I do want to fill you in on a new segment we're gonna try out today. We're playing Agree to Disagree. We've played this game for an entire episode before, but I actually want to try ending an episode with an Agree to Disagree relating to the topic of the episode today, which was divorce. Let us know what you think about this, and while you're letting us know, please be sure to hit the subscribe button, it really helps us out, and if you haven't left us a review before in our podcast, that would actually mean a lot. If you just go, leave a quick review. It literally takes 10 seconds. You can just say, love it, and then tap how many stars you want to tap, and you're done. Have you been putting off starting a business that you've been dreaming about for years? Because we ourselves are actually starting up a new business this year. We're very excited, and we're doing it with today's sponsor of this portion of the episode, Shopify. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap from household names to first-time business owners, just getting started. I don't know about you guys, but I really like how easy and seamless Shopify makes the whole experience for you as the business owner. 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Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/unplanned. Go to shopify.com/unplanned. That's shopify.com/unplanned. Here you're first. This new year with Shopify by your side. - All right Abby, welcome back. We've now made it to the section of the show where we will be playing, "Agreed" to disagree. - That sounds fun. - Let's play the game. That sounds fun to me too. - First question or first, "Agreed" to disagree prompt. Unhappiness alone is a valid reason for divorce. I'm gonna say strongly disagree. - Your feelings don't tell you the truth. - Your feelings lie to you all the time. All the time. Your feelings are liars. - Should I quote John Delaney one more time? - I was gonna quote Arthur Brooks. - Okay, do that. - How sick is that that we get to interview these experts on our show? - We can move on our way there. - How the heck do we con our way here, man? High five, go us. But no, your feelings are made to keep you safe. - Yeah. - But they're not there to tell you the truth. - Yep. - Your feeling is can go on all kinds of crazy roller coasters, valleys, mountains, and that's normal. We don't need to be alarmed at that. That doesn't mean we need to acknowledge them. We can honor them, validate them. But we cannot use that as like, it's saying that, that factor alone is making this decision for me. If you make every decision in your life based on your feelings, you are living a rather aimless life. - I love how we chatted with Arthur. He talked about how we're gifted with his prefrontal cortex and we're supposed to use it. We're supposed to decipher all the feelings that we have and understand, do we agree with them? Like, is the feeling that I have valid? I mean, the reality is like, we're allowed to feel all these, there's nothing wrong with feeling a certain way. - Yeah. - But it's what you do with that information. - Yes. - Dangerous. That's like, that's like deciding that you're a monkey, right? Or deciding like you're a three-year-old. - A three-year-old just goes off of their feelings all the time. - Yeah. - Like what separates you, a grown-up with a developed prefrontal cortex from a three-year-old, if you're just gonna go off of your feelings all the time? - It's complex decision making. - So I agree, I think that's really good. Next, agree to disagree prompt. Marriage should be hard to leave. I'm gonna say agree. I'm gonna say agree. I almost said disagree because I think like for women, or I guess there's men too that can be stuck in a domestic violent situation, they definitely need to get out. Like that's not safe for them or the kids. - Either way though, it's hard though, if you marry someone assuming marriage is forever, to have to rewrite the rest of your life, that should be hard. - Yeah, I think it is hard, I think it's hard for a reason. I think that's why you need to put so much thought and care and time into the decision to get married. - And get this, staying married is hard too. - Yeah, life is hard, so you gotta choose your heart. - Right. - No way to get over the fact that you're going to suffer and struggle and life is gonna be hard, and that's a sad reality. But it's like, I think what makes it all worth it is having a purpose. You know, finding something that gets you up in the morning. Maybe it's a charity that you wanna support. Maybe it's a certain belief system that you embody and you wanna share with others and share the joy that you have. But you have to find like what that purpose is in your life. I think that's how you approach the hardship of life. - Of course. I truly believe that life is hard marriage isn't hard. - Yeah. - It's okay to stay together for the kids. I'm gonna say disagree. - Oh, I was gonna say agree. - Oh really, why are you saying agree? That's interesting. - Well, I feel like maybe at times where it's like, okay, it feels like we're not like the, I don't, I'm not having fun with you. I'm not feeling happy around you, but we have kids together. I know that's gonna be really hard for them. If you say in those like really like deep, deeply low points, I feel like anything that you can hold on to stay and that gives you a reason to work on it is valid. - I guess I'm going from the standpoint of things being very toxic, you know, maybe they're being, maybe not dangerous, but just like words being said, arguments that the kids are witnessing, it's just not a good environment for them to be raised in. - Yeah, I agree with that. - That's where I would be like, you need to get out. - And look, like arguments are gonna happen. Archives have seen us argue. There's a time in the car where we were not even arguing at all, but we were just talking about something. - Yeah, they rarely see us argue. - We were getting, but I think it's good for them to see you disagree, 'cause then you show them how you resolve the conflict and then they learn conflict resolution. - Yeah, but sometimes. - But no, it was funny though, 'cause I think we've talked about this, but we were in the car and just getting passionate about something we were talking about. And Oggy thinks we're arguing. He goes, "Be nice." - Yeah, we were like laughing. - "Be nice, dad, dad, be nice, mama." And we started blessing a laughing. - We were just making jokes. - Yeah, I thought that was so funny. - I think it's just 'cause we were getting loud. - Next, we have divorces too normalized in 2026. What are you saying? I'm saying, I don't disagree. - I feel like I'm coming from such a place of like, I'm so biased to the fact that we have a good, healthy marriage. - So you're gonna say agree. - I was gonna say agree, but then I'm also like, I've never been in like a terrible marriage. - Yeah. - And so I don't wanna just be like, yeah, it's too normal to just stick it out. And it's like, you don't understand. - Yeah. And I'm married too, as a monster or, you know. - Yeah, well, I think, yeah, to be a devil's advocate, I think that we've been through terrible times in marriage. I think we've experienced terrible things in marriage, but I think it's immature and like just simply untrue to like prescribe all those struggles to like your partner or the relationship. Again, his life is hard, marriage isn't hard, it comes down to life being hard. But yeah, I do think, I don't know. - I do think just about every marriage is salvageable. - I would agree with that. - So it's like. - Yeah, there's people that have like pretty F'd up marriages - You have to really set your pride aside and seek professional help. - Yeah. - So yeah, maybe it is too normalized. - Emphasis on the professional help too, 'cause I think like if your, yeah, if stuff is pretty F'd up and you're not going to professional help, like you need to get a professional. But also it's easier said than done. Like we're fortunate where we can afford therapy, therapy's expensive, you know. So if that's you, I mean, I know there are resources where there's like free therapies. Oftentimes it's with different religious institutions or organizations, but heck, I think that's even better than nothing. - Of course. - But yeah, I don't know, that is true though. Like not everyone can afford therapy. So I think we definitely are speaking from a place of privilege because we, you know, if therapy's expensive, therapy is expensive. Okay, I agree to disagree. Social media encourages divorce. - Yeah, I would agree with that. - 100% actually strongly agree. - Yeah, I feel like there's been times, gosh, we had a video that went, got on the wrong side of YouTube shorts where we were making a video about Thanksgiving and then Abby came back from the neighbors to like bring the turkey or something and all the comments were like, she's totally screwing the neighbor, she's totally messing around. Like everyone hated you and it was like. - It was the first time, what are you about this? - No, you knew about it. I took off the comments. This was back in 2021, but it's just like, it's crazy how things can end up on the wrong side on the internet and people can just spend an errand about it nothing. It's happened for both of us. - Oh yeah, people are just so quick to just be like, leave her, leave him. She's for the streets, he's terrible, drop him. It's like, this is like, people, it's so quick. - If I had a dollar for every comment or like on a comment for people that told you to leave me, I would have a lot of dollars. (laughing) - Well, I tell you just know that it's just like, it's so, Baseless I think it's because like if yeah, I think it's because people your rock star husband Like you're an amazing husband and you're an amazing wife I think people people get frustrated with their own life circumstance and they look at a very small snippet of someone else's life and by Saying like leave maybe they want to leave maybe they're in an unhealthy marriage and they want to leave But they don't have the courage to get out so I think it could probably come from that It could probably come from people projecting where they've come from also just like there's so many reasons Yeah, like culture and society doesn't necessarily promote persevere instead of marriage or persevere And so honestly I would say in general What about this one modern marriage is harder than marriages of the past agree to disagree I'm gonna say disagree. I would say disagree It feels it feels out of touch to say agree. Oh, I think life was just way harder in the past like I think people Literally we're like hunting for the food Like to be the devil advocate you could make the argument then that like marriage then now became because I feel like humans will create problems. Yeah, we create problems and nothing and so it's like well if life isn't as hard now I guess I got to find more problems and seriously. No, that's what I don't know so everyone's chronically online like we create Problems that nothing on the internet. I don't think it's harder for sure if anything It might be like a little easier because there's a lot more resources. I would say. Oh, yeah Totally, there's a recent like if you can sift through the information overload There's there's definitely resources out there that help support your marriage There's there's whole YouTube channels that aren't like like this is just we're just two People like we're we're a couple chatting about this like there's resources of people that actually have like gone to Decades of school and could give you like what yeah, we're just we're just talking about this We're creating conversation, but there's there's a lot of information that's helpful out there Okay, commitment matters more in marriage than compatibility matters more strongly. Oh, that's hot Hey, I like that. Okay, why does commitment more matter more than compatibility because I was gonna say agree I think for a little bit I was like do I disagree because compatibility matters But I think at the end of the day it matters so much more that you committed. Yeah, I would agree with that Yeah, speak to me about that. Talk to me about first of all humans are not like we're not stagnant creatures Yeah, we are constantly changing and evolving so like you could give me a compatibility test with you when we were 17 years old you could give me one now you could give you one like yeah, I'm sure those results would fluctuate greatly Yeah, and like what matters is that we've committed to each other and through that commitment We're also shaping one another. Yeah, and therefore becoming more compatible to each other. Yeah, that's because we committed Did that make any sense or did I just I think I think I followed up. Okay. Yeah, that's good No, yeah, I think I think that the commitment like yeah, but by Definition makes you more compatible. No, I don't think that's true I think you could commit and also stay stuck in your ways and not work on your marriage We're like but we're committed to this and that's where you find the marriages that you're like we're staying for the kids We absolutely they hate each other going at each other's neck every day. Yeah, but I don't think that necessarily means the same thing But it's also like I think you can commit and then also committing to the every day But it's like are you even for the kids if you're fighting all the time because your kids want to see you guys in love They want to see you getting along. Yeah, that's a different conversation. Yeah, yeah, I like we're going Sorry, not to dismiss what you said that is true, but that's not exactly the point I was making. I like the wait Okay, restate the point you're making go it's one thing to commit the day of your wedding. Okay, and say like we are committed and We're staying together no matter what and then go about the rest of your marriage and not change anything about yourself as a person and then go on each other's Next every day. It's another thing to commit every single day to your marriage And therefore I say when you commit every single day you're growing in compatibility and that first example You're not growing in compatibility. You're just staying committed that reminds me of that famous quote by a president that I can't Think of their name of right now, but it's like ask not what your country can do for you But what you can do for your country wow, that's flip that around flip that around that's that's a famous quote by a president I forget which one probably let's have you rose mask not what your spouse can do for you But what you can do for your spouse? I think if you wake up every day and you ask yourself the question How can I serve and love my spouse today? I think you're gonna end up with a really happy marriage if you're both Cruistfully honestly doing that. That's a really good spot to be incredible I feel like you'd be stronger than 90% of marriages if you do that 100% I'm throwing stats out there left and right Okay, next up we have marriages unrealistic because people change over time strongly disagree Let's go and I think because people change over time is why marriage is so freaking cool Well, and that's why I can grow stronger and that's why I can and it should grow stronger Yeah, you're going to change so why not choose to change in a direction that you want to go in yeah I think about a tree with their roots they grow around each other. Yeah, intertwine your roots. They keep getting deeper, but they're intertwined Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. I love you. Thank you. Super hot. Thank you And Next we have divorce is more common today because people give up faster I'm gonna say disagree. What are you gonna say? I'll agree. Oh, you agree? Well, I think I do because First of all, if we're looking at history it wasn't even an option for women for so long So it's like, I mean, and I feel like give up is given is given such a negative connotation But it's like no, I genuinely give up because this person is not Is not there for me. I the reason I said disagree is I think if you look at history people literally couldn't get divorced That's what I'm saying in the past. Well, you said agree you said agree you said you said people give it faster today Yeah, I'm confused. I'm overthinking this question. That's it. We hit all. Okay, now we're gonna move on to user submitted questions Thank you to everyone. That was actually really fun I feel like we should bring that segment back if you guys want us to bring that segment back Let us know in the comments because agree to disagree is a really fun game to play first question we have from This is Gabriela. What are some things you guys did to relight the spark when things felt hard? Uh, fake until you make it honestly Oh, that's really good. That's really really good because I think that like time heals. I think Just you're you just decide like this sucks, but I'm gonna keep going forward I'm gonna give a silly example, but trust me when I say that this can be used in deeper scenarios Yeah, so sometimes when we're mad at each other we've talked about this a lot We'll play a car game together And that is an example of faking it till you make it because you're doing an activity together There's so many things about it like why that's good. Yes, but also just like hey, we're playing a game together You're not thinking about whatever you were mad about or all the things that were upsetting you But you have a common shared goal of playing this game technically against each other But there's probably wouldn't work if you're really competitive people But um and that we like it's a way of thinking until you're making it because we're playing games inherently Is something you do with friends people you're you enjoy yeah, and so yeah, I think It pretty soon you'll find yourself in a much happier place together. I agree. I agree. I think I think fake it to make it is a real thing I or there's an iron of this another saying it sounds so cheesy another one is believe it till you achieve it Believe that your marriage is gonna work till you achieve that marriage We also have do y'all think it's wrong for people to get back together after divorce Absolutely not if you think you can work it out. Oh my gosh go back I think that could be a very good thing, but I think you might need to make some changes from there needs to be some serious change from what the relationship was before Yeah, I do a lot of reconstructing before you Die back in this question is really good actually goes right in line what we talked about earlier Why do you actually that mate that I'm sorry to interrupt that does make me very I'm very curious now what the rates are divorce after You remarried the same person. Oh Someone let us know in the comments I would I would imagine yeah the success rate is low. Yeah the success rate is low Yeah, why do you feel like a lot of influencer couples get divorced so many people are commenting and making videos on their marriage and it's that's not healthy Yeah This is it's a date it's dangerous. It's a dangerous game like I honestly you guys like I think You know I don't look at any of that schnauz that and honestly I'll just be real with you guys That's why like I I'm Abbie and I are having this conversation today because I feel like our marriage isn't a very healthy happy good spot So I feel come I think we feel comfortable to talk about such a taboo controversial topic, but like I really like doing guest episodes because I liked it I like to talk about other people not myself. Yeah, you know, it's not healthy. Yeah, it's not healthy to like It can definitely get unhealthy when you put yourself out there like think about it If you yourself had millions of people commenting about your life and your spouse and your partner and saying you know Positive and negative things about you and the other person and then you intermix pride with that you intermix like fame with that You never it's money with that it can get really complicated. So I think yeah, it's only dangerous if you drink it though because I don't Yeah, I don't partake in that schnauzon is yeah I think that's why you can't let the money and fame go to your head for any person that's involved in entertainment at all And I think that can I can I think that can cost problems and marriages too. Yeah, okay thoughts on separating before officially divorcing Maybe a good idea probably yeah, just to like just to really think think think it through like is this actually what I want and maybe you can do some independent healing And then show up differently in your marriage. How do you settle debts related to gambling in a divorce? My gosh I don't know what you would do with that probably hire an accountant to look for everything No, I think what you got to do first is you're make sure your spouse doesn't have access to your credit Yes, yeah, freeze your credit cut them off make sure that you're you're keeping yourself and your kids safe Because if you're if you're married to someone with a gambling addiction or a money issue They could be rooting your credit your kids credit. They could be rooting you financially So you got to really take steps to protect yourself and if you don't know what to do, find someone, a trusted friend, colleague, maybe somebody at works, went at your church, synagogue, whatever, to help walk alongside you. 'Cause I really do believe that there are so many good people out there that if you tell them what's going on, they would love to help you. - Oh yeah. - And last question is, have you ever considered it? We have answered this before. We've answered this. - Oh, have you ever considered divorce? - Yeah, we've like considered it in our heads. We've never like legitimately gone through with anything like that and-- - Well, not even close. - Yeah, not even close. - Well, we gotta be honest. I mean, it has the thought entered your head, yeah. - But I think it's good. - There's a really great example of emotions, not giving them the driver's seat. - Yeah, I think it's too, like if you allow that thought to enter your head and you really think it through, I think it also will challenge you to look at yourself and say like, am I, all these expectations, I have all these expectations for my spouse. What about me? Am I holding a mind of the-- - Am I squeaky clean? And I think all these things are really good to talk through therapy. But we've thought about it. We've never actually done it. We love each other. And I feel so, so lucky that I get to be married to such a beautiful, loving, kind woman. That's just an amazing friend, an amazing mom, an amazing public figure. You're a great example. There's so many women out there. I really do believe that and-- - Now I'm embarrassed that I don't want to do it. - I don't want to do it. - And I love that you are always thinking about others. - You're sweet. - So I love you. And I'm really grateful that we're both committed to constantly working on us and constantly committed also to that, like putting each other higher than ourselves. - That's right. - That's essentially like what marriage is. It's like me. - 100% before me and we before me. - That's right. Well, you guys, thank you for tuning in. This was a good, messy, real, unfiltered combo about marriage. If you want more conversations like this, let us know in the comments. Then again, thank you to everyone that's subscribed and left a review on Spotify or Apple. It really means so much to us. We'll see you in the next episode. - Love you, babe. - I love you. Mwah. I love you, baby. Thank you guys.