A Love that Crosses Borders and a Place to Call Home

Episode 7. Carry Shales with Hannah Rodenkovich. A love that crosses borders and a place to call home. A couple that have found it so difficult to travel around and come back to England. One half of me was saying, "Well, if I stay, I can get in Irish passport." And it's like the gold that I can earn by staying. But actually, I thought, "I need to place the obedience I have in God, where He's calling me above the gifts of the world, let's say." So people were taking that. I don't leave. You're only a couple of years away from Irish passport. -Yes, for bars. -I knew that wasn't the right thing to do. -Yes. -Because that was just the world talking and that wasn't necessarily God's leading. Well, hello and welcome back to another exciting episode of Carry Shales. This is the place where women together get to share their stories of faith and we get to encourage one another, empower one another, and point one another to Jesus. This is what it is all about. So I am very excited today to have a lovely friend of mine who have just been starting to get to know recent months. Hannah Rodenkovich. And for those of you who are more astute, yes, you have recognised there is something exciting and exotic about her surname and she'll be telling us more about that. But Hannah is a lovely lady in her 30s with an interesting story to tell and she has just started coming along to the home group that I have in the house here for women. So Hannah, welcome to Carry Shales. Thank you. It's lovely to be here. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Amazing. Can you tell us just a little bit about yourself to give us a taste of a feel? Yes, of course. So as you already mentioned, my name is Hannah. That means 'favored by God' or 'favored by grace' which I think is quite telling of my story to come. I'm white British background. I'm originally from Essex. It might be a little twang of an accent. Amazing, amazing. But you're not a blonde. I just have to put that in for the listeners who can't see your beautiful organ hair. Oh, right. She's not an Essex blonde, okay? Yes. I'm a youth worker by profession. So I've been doing that for about 10 years now. Absolutely. Love it. So yeah. Fantastic. And your surname is 'What Nationality'. Serbian. Ah, there you go. Put us out of our misery. Serbian. Yeah. Fantastic. Did I pronounce it correctly? You did. Yeah, it's okay. So Hannah, taking us way back then to the very beginning of your reads, etc. Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and your upbringing? Yes, of course. So I grew up in a home of five. So there was two parents and I've got two older siblings. It was a loving family home, but it was pretty topsy-turvy in its existence. We had quite a lot of external pressures from my dad's family side that put a lot of difficulties on my parents' relationship. So I know they found it quite difficult at times. And I would say it was fairly emotionally unsafe for us as children. Whilst my parents tried to navigate those pressures as best they could at the time. But it was more so my father's family trauma being passed along, that's it. So in general, it was a difficult home life, but it was good. You know, I'm really into it school. I had a loving family around me. It did ground me. I'm a home bird. So I love that I'm from Essex. I love the father I'm from England. But it did have its difficulties at times. Yes. As do all our backgrounds. Of course. You know, they are not without their difficult experiences. And this household was their faith in the mix for you. Did your parents have a faith of their own and bring you up in that? Or did you encounter Jesus later for yourself? So both my parents' Christians, I do grow up in a Christian household. My mum is from a long line of Christians. So I like to think that her faith was passed down through the generations. And if I believe correctly, some of my family were conscientious objectors during the war, because of this faith, it's a really strong faith, which is amazing. Amazing. My dad on the other hand is not from a line of Christians. So I'd consider him as a first generation Christian in his family. He chose Christ through his own testimony, which is wonderful. I feel like I've got this heart, a mix of both from faith being passed down, but faith being chosen and picked up from the start. And very authentic in both faith. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I went to a small evangelical church and it was mostly my mum that would take me, my dad, because of his family difficulties, was struggling with his faith at the time that I was growing up. So it was really my mum that was faithful in taking me to church. And I always kind of had an idea, a deep-seated belief that God was there. And God was real. But I remember walking down the street back from Girls Regade, which is like a girl, God's group, and saying, you know, praying out, now going, God, I believe you're there, but I believe that you're going to show me who you are in a really big way. And I kind of just left it there, kind of just left it at God's doorstep. Okay. That's beautiful. How would you when you prayed that prayer? Well, I mean, I can remember it. And I was walking home alone. So I'm probably going to say early teens maybe. Okay. Yep. Yeah. So the stories of God and the Bible were taught to me from when I was little. Obviously, it probably was going through my family. But I think it was only when I was around about 16. And I went to a youth festival called Soul Survivor. Yes. Big Christian youth festival for those that don't know. And I went to a seminar. It was like a girl seminar. And it was actually Beth Regiment that was leading it. Oh, yes. I've been to one of those. Yes. It was really fantastic. It was ministry time at the end. And I just felt a move of the Holy Spirit. So I went out to be prayed for. And at that moment, I gave my life to God. And the way I describe it is like I, it was like a light bulb going off in my mind of everything that I'd heard from the years. All the stories, all the prayers had just fell into place. And it was real. It was real to me. It made sense to me. Yes. So it was at that time around about 16 that I gave my life to Christ. How beautiful. So the culmination, as you say, of the upbringing that you've had, the familiarity with the stories of Jesus in the Bible. That key prayer that you prayed on the way home from the gospel. Yeah, I think so. It all came together. I do believe so. Yeah, it really did. Now, that's not to say it was all rosy after that. I did struggle with my home life, as I've mentioned. And I found school and college a safe place to be. Okay. Because I found that my home life wasn't very safe emotionally. Okay. So there was a time when we broke up from college during the summer time. And I realised that I was going to be at home through the whole summer. And it just filled me with such anxiety. I thought I was going to be at home with my parents and this college to the environment. And I went into a bit of a downward spiral of anxiety, which did learn lead to depression. And it was only then when I returned back to Salsvival the year later when I was 17. That I believe I was delivered from those mental health difficulties at that time. Oh, that's amazing. And God again showed me His grace. So it was about 16, 17, recommitted my life again. And then I think from that time, from going through that difficulty, that summer of just anxiety, depression as a young person, my feet have been grounded in God. And He's my Sals companion. Would you say then that in that place of real struggle, actually, you were really reaching out to God as someone beyond yourself? Absolutely reaching out to God. You know, I do remember being on my bed crying, going, "God, you can't be real. If I'm going through this, you can't be real." And close my Bible and go into bed. And then having days where I couldn't eat properly, or I'd look up train timetables because we had a train station in our town. We had a level crossing and it was look up train times to see if I wanted to end my life. I jumped in front of the train. So it was a real big struggle for me at that time. I'm a real black pitful. Yeah, a really, really desperate time. But God was there. He was sustaining me. And it's not to say that since then, I haven't experienced mental health difficulties I have. But it's just re-frame differently now. My God is my companion. Yes. He's my confidant. He's the one that takes me through every high and low now. Which I can recognise much more from that time of my life. And do you think it's the sense of the benefit of hindsight? Looking back, obviously from your vantage point now, age 30, and with more life experience. Looking back, can you see how God was present in that year, although at the time perhaps you couldn't detect His presence? Is that what it was like? I remember going to Salsafiva when I was 17. So the second year I've gone and I've recommit my life to Christ. It was like I was being delivered. I've been baptising the Holy Spirit. People were praying for me. It was, you know, the world's worst. It was called in the background. People were laying hands. They were delivering me. They were speaking at prayers. They told me to speak at prayers. And from then I went back to college into my final year of A Levels and I was a different person. I had found this piece, this joy, this excitement about life. I was ready to move out from home to university. There was just a freshness about me. But I had to go through the fire. The water is, let's say, to come back to other sides. Can I interject briefly with that? I mean, I think that's fantastic what you've shared there about that sense of it was the touch of the Holy Spirit. Absolutely. Making all the difference to you. And I think sometimes even in church circles, we underestimate the authority. that God has given us through the Holy Spirit. Yes, exactly. And I think, and I've been learning this throughout my walk with God as well, you know, that there are times when I think I can do it on my own strength, you know, and I really can't. I really need the Holy Spirit. But you talked specifically about that term, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And that may be something that not all our listeners are aware of and familiar with. So can we just explain a little bit more what that means? Sure. Yeah. So if we look into the book of Acts. Sure. And then Jesus has come, he's crucified, he's come back again, he's gone to heaven, and he commissions his disciples out and he says, I'm going to give you a gift that's far greater to the me that will do more for you than I could. He was obviously referring to the Holy Spirit. And so we look at the book of Acts at the first part when the Spirit comes down on the disciples like tongues of fire. And people think they're drunk, they're crazy because they're acting in such a way that's not usual, that's not like them. And I would probably say that a baptism of the Holy Spirit is something similar. So it's an experience with the Holy Spirit that goes deep within who you are and just changes you. So that looks like, that looks different to everyone. It could be peace. So you'd be baptized by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you could be standing there in peace and awe, you could be crying, you could be laughing, you could be on the floor just still. Yeah. When the Holy Spirit comes, it's God's tangible presence coming upon you and moving in the way that God wants you to move. And I think at first when I was 16 and I first went to social service, I was really frightened of it. Actually, my friend took me out of the main session because I was seeing people crying and laughing and it was quite loud and I thought, "What on earth is going on?" But as I slowly dipped my toes in and immersed myself more, I realized that this is just a part of God that I hadn't known before. And that's it, isn't it? We can have as much of God as we want. Yes, actually. He is fully available to us, but it's us who hold back. Yes. I think it's because we don't want to surrender or do we? Sure. Yeah. But that was the first time I was really baptized in the Holy Spirit, I think at 17, the second I went to social service, and I'd say I was delivered from what I was going through at the time by God's grace. And from then I'd say I was forever changing my relationship with God in knowing really deep down that God is there in all the tribulations and the highs and lows, etc. And I think that was probably the turning point for me and my faith. That's amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. I wasn't aware of that part of your story before, but thinking about the Holy Spirit. I just want to be really clear, you know, for all of us, as believers as God's children, He's given us that deposit of the Holy Spirit as soon as we've made that decision, whether it's a gradual decision or whether it's an instantaneous one. Absolutely. We've given the gift of the Holy Spirit. But then as you say, there are those moments when actually we are just absolutely completely soaked in God's Spirit and we're asking to be filled, we're asking to be refilled. And the Bible talks about being filled again and again, it's an ongoing, it's in the present continuous tense. And I love that. It's like the sense of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Don't allow yourself to think that you've had one experience of God, that's enough to keep you going throughout life. It's not. It's about being refilled. That's amazing, Hannah, how God really established your faith in that place of massive struggle. And then obviously bringing you complete peace out of the other side that is so beautiful as now when that happens. Let's fast forward to your life now. What does life look like for you now? Age 30. Can you give us just a little bit of a glimpse of life now for you? Yeah, of course. So now I'm married to my lovely husband Marco. We have a beautiful daughter. We are happy to be back on the UK soil. Amazing. From why? We'll share more about that. So I traveled basically most of my 20s. I was bopping and hopping about Europe, basically. It's lovely to have my feet grounded on soil and it's lovely to see where God has taken me through my profession as well. Yes. Being a youth worker, I came from a teaching background originally and I've taught in different parts of Europe, Australia, Germany, I've been all over teaching. Oh, I do have a PGC. No, I taught English as a second language as an additional language. So did I. Great. There we go. I'm just excited to see where God is going to leave me now in my next chapter of my career, I think. And just hoping above all that I say, be gentle to Him and what He's calling me to do and where. If that's a broad again, I'll go. Okay. But for the moment, I'm happy to be back and enjoy Him. And you've recently moved into a new home as well. Amazing. And there's a story behind that, isn't there? In fact, there's this very long story behind that, which is why you're here today, actually. So we're talking specifically about the way that throughout your life circumstances, you've been able to see God at work, and you've seen Him revealing treasures in unexpected places like those carry shells across the shore. And I wonder if your life now is how you envisaged it as a young woman, perhaps looking at the circumstances around you and how you've come to where you've got, it's probably not quite what you imagined, is it? That life is like that in a wonderful way. So going back to the end of your teens, your 17, you've had this recommitment then to God through your second encounter at Source by the Festival. And that then was a moment that caused you to decide you wanted to get baptized. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. So I was baptized at 19. So it took me a couple of years to get into the groove of going to university. At that point in my life was very carefree. I was doing my best life at university, making friends alive. But I can reflect on your question and say my life in my 20s is definitely not how I envisioned at all. At all. Okay. Around about the time I was baptized, I was in a church and I went to like a local worship not that they had. And there was a guy that stood up and said, "I just want to let people know that there's a couple of us that are planning a trip to Serbia in May later this year. If anyone wants to come along, come get me, let's have a chat. I like to shoot that time while I've never been abroad before. Oh wow. I've never stayed in the UK." Oh my goodness. So you're so international. I can't believe that. So whenever I'd done holidays in my family it was always over the UK across. And I'm very grateful for that because I love this country. But it became a point when I was 19 and I heard this invitation and I just sparked something for me. Oh, that sounds interesting. And I had this urge to go strangely. I don't know where that came from, honestly, but I didn't know where Serbia was, no idea. And the way that the trip was coming about is that there was this couple going to join a church plant. So there was a couple going. They wanted to take a group. Anyone was invited to go along for a week and I thought, "I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it." But I tell you, I was really scared. I was really, really scared. So much so that I actually convinced my sister to come along with me. Oh really? So my sister actually came and she wasn't part of that town, that city. She was over in Sarri, I was over in Ken. But she did. She came along with me very faithfully. I mean, I look back at that time and I think the way I framed it in my head is like, "I'm 19. This is the last thing we're doing with my teens. I'm just going to go for it." You know? Really? Yeah. Yeah, I was seizing it. I was seizing it. And actually, interestingly, before I went on this trip, a couple of friends at church came up to me after the service and I'll never forget they came up to me and they said, "What you're going to experience in Serbia is nothing like you could imagine." And I remember at the time going, "Wow, awesome. You know, I'm down for the adventures. I'm going to see God do amazing, reckless things in our ministry. I'm all for it. Come on, bring it on, God." Amazing. That is really, really where my head was out. Okay. So we traveled to Serbia. My first flight was, you don't want to know how scary it was for me. Lots of tears, lots of paper bag. It's moving into paper bag. I was absolutely petrified, but I did it. And I got to the other side and we flew to Macedonia because the city we were going to in Serbia, it was close to the Macedonian border. Okay. And obviously, there was a member of the church who had come to meet us, a bit like a tall guy to take us across the border. So as we all came out into the Rival's Hall, I was the last one. I came out into this beautiful Rival's Hall. It was warm, it was sunny, it was so full of culture, different language. It was written in Cyrillic and it was like, I don't know how to describe it. So freeing to just walk out. And so we met this tall guy and everyone shook hands and said hello and I was the last one. And I saw him and I thought, oh, you're quite attractive. And that's really what I thought straight away. Do I know where this is going? And so I shook his hand and I said hello. And obviously, my teenage brain, I was like, no Hannah, you're here for a mission. Put that away. Don't just don't go there, don't go there in your brain. Don't even say you're attracted to that. Don't even admit it. So we got on the bus and I remember sitting there on the bus guy, no, don't, you're on a mission trip, don't go there, you know, don't like this person, you're not here for that. But I did. There was something about him that was carefree, confident and the background to my life at that time is I'd actually just finished working at a nightclub. Okay. So a bit more of a not so healthy environment for a young Christian woman to be in. And so it was really refreshing to me a guy who was very confident had this joy about him. And there was just something about him that caught my eye really. You know, his name was Marco and he did take us across the border into Serbia and we got on really, really well. Really, really well. And I had a crack in time on that trip. I got to see what international mission was like for the first time. Amazing. Really interesting. Came home with lots of reflect on. and made me so thankful for the upbringing that I had with God and everything that we have in this country, the NHS and the school and we have here so, so much. And we just connected, we just connected. But obviously, I didn't go there to meet a man. I went on missions too. - For sure. - Yeah, absolutely. - But God knew your heart. - Absolutely. - Yeah. But we just kept talking. We kept talking and back and forth the messages and texts. And did he ask for your number to stay in touch? Or how did that develop? - Yeah, so it's actually on Facebook Messenger. - Oh, I see. - So, okay. - Yeah, okay. - So these messages were going back and forth and back and forth. - Yeah. - Yeah, they were. And sometimes, I came home way after the trip and sometimes we hadn't spoken for two weeks. But I was thinking about him and we had this inside joke about a watermelon, which is another story for another time. (laughing) But so then I'd be eating watermelon and I'd take a photo of the watermelon and said it to him, go, "Ah, I remember this one." So that was how we just kept going. And it just kept going. - We wanted to go with the water. - Yeah, yes. - I have a story about watermelon as well but for another time, here another time. And any race, so it's fast forward in 2015. So it's the next year we decided that we'll start dating. He was 32 at the time. So quite a large age gap. And I think that was one of the reasons he didn't jump in. - Yes. - First of all, 'cause I was only 19, he was 32. - I was seeing for enough. - Yes, okay. - Yeah. But because we got on so well, and when we were with each other, it was like, bill and bin, honestly. It was so, we were so happy that we just went for it. But it was long distance. Because he was from Serbia and he would need a visa to come to England. - Of course. - So I kind of knew that. I didn't know where Serbia was. I thought Serbia wasn't a year. But when it wasn't, and I found out it wasn't, didn't make a difference to me 'cause I wasn't going there to meet a man anyway. So we started dating 2015. We decided to move to Germany at that point so that we could be together. But it wasn't just a case of I got a job in Germany. We actually went to join a mission's organization called Wiewam, so Youth with a Mission. Now, he'd done Wiewam before. So he'd done his school because you'd go in and you'd do a preliminary school called Discipleship Training School. He'd done that and he'd staffed at different bases across the world. I hadn't. So this was a really great way for us to be together. In a safe environment, well, I could learn about God and learn about my faith, but he could staff and we could just be, it's just a safe environment to get to know each other. He could be alongside one another in the same place. Exactly, but for me to be learning about my faith and him being nurturing young people in their faith. So that worked out really well. From there, we moved to Hungary. You were in Germany for a year? No, three months. Oh, three months, I'm so sorry, through 2016. Yes, 2016. Okay, and then you moved to Hungary. Having done and completed the DTS, and were you still with Wiewam when you moved to Hungary? We were. Oh, I see. So you were stationed out in. Yeah. Okay. So we came to being Budapest in Hungary with the Wiewam base and again, safe place for us to be together. Yeah. Learning how to be in a relationship, learning at one another, but with Christian friends around us. So it was a really safe way. And I'm really glad. Now I look back, I'm going that way. That was the best way to do it. Fast forward to 2017. We've been long distances whole time. So from 2015 to 2017, I'd go home to England for a little bit. I might do a summer job doing youth work or I might go to Austria, Germany to teach English. Oh, okay. It was very on and off. Very on and off. And whenever we were together, absolutely house and fire, really good time being together. We were just best friends, honestly, just best friends. I see, lovely. But when we were apart, I was still in my early 20s, and I was enjoying traveling and doing this job and this job. And so when we weren't together, it was difficult for me to keep the momentum going a little bit. Of course. Yes, that makes sense. So in 2017, we did decide to get married. But it wasn't the traditional proposal, like down on one knee, to a romantic place. Okay, go ahead. Because at that point in time, I was really, I'm an an iron about the relationship as a whole. I really didn't know whether I wanted to continue. Okay. Not for any reflection of Marco at all, but because of visas, he couldn't come to England. He'd never met my parents. He'd never come and see my beautiful country that I love. Of course. And I couldn't keep hopping across the globe and going to Germany, going to Hungary, going to Serbia. I wanted to do a youth work. I wanted to get my masters and be a professional, do you know? So it got to a point where I really didn't know whether this was for me, this relationship. And I remember walking down the road with him, and I remember just asking myself, saying, can you think of a better person for you? Do you think you'll find someone else like him? Do you think he will treat you well for your life and be a good companion for your life? And when I asked myself specifically, can you see, can you see yourself as anyone else or can you think you would ever meet another one of this person? I said, no. Okay. And it was at that point I thought, well then you get married. The logical explanation. Through all of the tribulation and the long distance was, well then that's the answer. Okay. So we were walking down the street and I just turned to him and I just said, okay, let's get married. In what country would you be married? So this is Serbia. Okay, because he wasn't in the UK, I was in the UK. I was in the UK. So you're in Serbia having this conversation. Okay. And you just turned to him and said, let's get married, yeah. Okay. Why not? Let's just get married. How did he take that? I know. Fine. He wanted to get married for a long time. Okay. Okay. He had had past relationships where he actually came into our relationship with a view of if I don't want to marry this woman, what am I doing? So he knew from the outset. It's very honorable. He's like, I'm only going this route because marriage will, it will go into marriage. So I knew from the start. So, yeah. Anyway, we turned 10 times and said, yes, okay. Let's go for it. So that was in the June and then we got married in September. So I engaged for three. Oh, well, when do I marry? Yes. Okay. And God wasn't it the whole way. I didn't realise that I had to get my documents from the UK legalised. Yeah. So there's little nuggets in the story where God is just at work. Yes. So like a week before the wedding, I didn't have my documents to be, to get so I could get married. And there was a lot of prayer and a lot of scrambling and they managed to come. And it was all a post-ill-stamped and legalised and translated and everything like that. So we got married in September 2017 on a beautiful sunny evening and it was just lovely. But my parents did meet him that week. Was that in Serbia you got married? Yes, we got married in Serbia. I never dreamed of getting married abroad. I would love to have got married here. But it was what it was and it was beautiful when it was one form and the Lord blessed it. But because of the visa, you know, Mark would never come to UK and never miss my parents. So they obviously wanted to come and see me get married. Of course. Bless me in that. So they flew out to Bulgaria and we hopped across the border from Bulgaria into Serbia. There's a lot of border hopping, hey? There is a lot of border hopping. And so my parents met him the day before we got married at the airport in Wemma Sofia. And if I remember correctly, my dad shook his hand and couldn't really say anything for 10 minutes, I think he overcome with emotion. We stayed in Budapest for about nine months and in this time I knew I wanted to come back to England because I wanted to do a youth work qualification. So I wanted to be a professional youth worker and I'd done a bit of it but I wanted to actually be qualified. Sure. So we applied to come back to the UK and we did all of our immigration documents but it was denied. Okay. So that was in 2018. And it was crushing, honestly. It was really crushing, you know. First of all, the piece of paper came back with no explanation. It was a blank piece of paper from immigration that had you been refused, you've been denied and there was nothing on the other side. Just blank. Gosh, how demoralising. Absolutely. Yeah. And then I managed to find an email out of somewhere and I chased them up and then I did get a reply and there was a lengthy letter all about why you couldn't come. Okay. Is that a reason? So it's a little bit complicated but in short because we were part of the EU at the time. Yes, the European Union. I was a citizen of the European Union so I could go and live in any other European country in my British system. Exactly. And I could bring a non-EU spouse with me. I'm with you. Okay. So I could then return to my home country, having used my European treaty rights to come back with my non-European spouse. Oh, I see. So that was the ruling that we were, the immigration routes that we were trying to apply for. Okay. But you had to prove that you had gone to leave in that European country legitimately that you weren't trying to circumnavicate UK laws. Of course. And so they basically didn't believe that we had not gone there to circumvent UK law. I see. They thought you were pulling the wool over there. Exactly. Which was really difficult considering, I love this person. I committed my life to this person. We've gone on such a journey, living in Germany, living in Hungary, going to Serbia this time, for the door to be completely slammed in my face. Yes. And it was really crushing. So we went for a really difficult time. Lots of prayer. Lots of laying in, I remember that at the Y1 base we were out, we were out with a mission in the base in Hungary. That's a beautiful garden. I would just go and lay on this swing chair for ages, just going, God, what is going to happen now? Really my Bible. crying of course and just walking with the Lord and just processing it and that's somehow I had a job back in the UK so I went back for eight weeks for two months to the UK and I've been left your husband. I've been left my husband. Gosh that's hard. And I remember just praying, you know I wanted to do the the program to qualify me as a youth worker, I also wanted to mark over there but my husband wasn't allowed in the country it was really difficult. So I thought to myself well actually I've been abroad once maybe I can just stay abroad or I can choose a different route so in all of the explorations we thought about Ireland for a public of Ireland it was closer to home. My parents could come easier to visit more easily and so we moved to Ireland in 2018 we didn't know anyone. Okay we left Hungary we got on a plane we didn't know if my crew would be allowed in the country because of certain legalities with their own immigration route but we got through and we went to live with a lovely woman called Kirstie who was from a church that I just reached out to on the fly a little bit you know I just researched churches in Ireland. Great ideas. She had this church had popped up so I emailed them saying we're missionaries from Hungary we're moving over. Do you know anyone that's got an apartment or a room and anyone that lives in Ireland especially the capital will know that housing is notoriously difficult in Ireland there's just not enough of it. So luckily this lady came back and said I've got a room that you can live in but it was my gosh in the middle of nowhere and so we went in faith we went and another reason that I wanted to go to Ireland is that I could study a degree in youth work that had the same qualification that I could use back in the United Kingdom. Fantastic. So I could use this qualification in a public-violent in Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Okay okay. So that was another the way the Lord was leading us to go to Ireland. So we moved there we were there in her house we were living in her house but again time comes for immigration we need to apply for a permanent residence and so we needed to gather all our documents of where we lived and what we were doing in the country and I had managed to get a job because all of these points of Marco's immigration story always relied on me I needed to find a job I needed to support him. Okay. It was always the pressure was on me we arrived in a country I have three months to find a job I have three months to get the paperwork to show that we lived. Wow. It's a lot of pressure on your hands. It was and I think that pressure was with me from the very beginning of our relationship because I was the one who could travel. I was the one who was working. I was the one who you know had the British passport that could take me places where he couldn't. So it was all key if you like. Yeah. Yeah. So it was always this stumbling block that the pressure was on me and I think that that added to the difficulty in finding whether this relationship was really for me. Absolutely. I can imagine the tension. Absolutely. Because I was fairly young at the time you know 2021-22. Yes, very young. I was really just stepping out I'm not really not doing but God was gracious and he did lead me through all of the trials and tribulations. So we landed in Ireland. I did get a job. It was a petrol station but it doesn't matter. God was good. God gave me a job. We went to apply for my close five-year residence to stay in the country on a pre-set old visa. Okay. In the Republic of Ireland. So we submitted all the documents and while the documents we had to submit was where we lived. Okay. And so the lady that we live with wrote a letter to say yes my mother owns the house. Okay. Mark Van Hanekens stay here. Fine. Sent it off. The immigration came back and said okay we need proof of mortgage deeds that this lady's mum. Sure. House. We went back to the lady. He said thank you so much for everything you've done so far. We need these mortgage documents. We need some sort of proof that legally there's ownership and she's turned around and said oh but my mum doesn't own the property. I don't know who owns the property. Oh gosh. And I've just been living here. So we thought oh like it was one of those moments, isn't it? Life when you have that huge exclamation mark in front of you had going. Yes. Yes. Life stopped a little bit. Yeah. Okay. And so we had to scramble to find a new place to live and we scrambleed or we messaged at that point we'd got ourselves into a church so we were scrambling going guys any rooms any rooms we were looking around and God blessed us within apartment in the same town. That and we first moved to. So we moved and we managed to get a six month tendency which again is not very usual but the landlord goes to six month tendency because I was going to go on to study at university. So after the six months for up we then managed to find our self-real room in Dublin so then we moved to Dublin and all the while at every move at every stage have to update immigration, have to update immigration, all the papers, all the bank statements, all the work documents, everything everything, everything, all the time. Goodness you must be a pro now at Moving House, Hannah. Oh yeah well actually quite a pro but Immigration Law as well. I mean you could do consultancy and this could be your back at that. So we moved to Dublin moved into a room I started my degree program two year masters degree in using community work at a local Irish university. So that obviously then locked us in for more time for two years. Okay. We had envisioned just staying island we really did. We made a plan to buy a house there to settle down to have a family because that's where we felt the Lord had opened up doors for us quite clearly things had happened and the Lord was moving and I just got jobs and and he and Mark also managed to get a job which is which is fantastic but fast forward to 2021 and obviously Brexit's come and gone. Yes. We're in transition period or whatever it's called and there's a last boat to the UK. Okay. metaphorically. Okay. There was the EU law freedom movement was closing and basically the UK government said any UK people that want to come back with their spouses you do so now because this is closing. Okay. Okay. And we thought oh my goodness we've you know we're basically mortgage ready we are we're here we've got our feet grounded we both got jobs I was working full time at that point such a graduate from university so had he but there was a part of me that said you know what I've always wanted to go back to England I've always wanted that really deep down. A hearts desire there. Absolutely hearts desire and with your husband. And what did I have to be there? Exactly and with my husband there was something about that that there was a part of me that said I have a right to return. Yes. My husband. A because it's in the letter of the law it says I haven't right and B it's legitimate. Nice. Do you know there's lots of people who don't do these things legally which then makes it more difficult for people who do do legally. Sure. But it's a sting in the tail when you get a rejection. Of course. Yeah. And it says we don't believe that what we're doing was really what you were doing. But it was more than that for you. What I mean is it was in your heart as a sense of you wanted to go home to your home country with your husband with your family you know and to enjoy that country together I understand that. Yeah. So we came to a decision where we thought you know we'll go for it we'll go for it. So the alternative for Marco to be here is the spouse fees are now some of your listeners might know what that is but it's a lengthy more costly route. Okay. But this route was free. So that was one of the reasons we decided to go for it. For sure. And we'd been in Ireland at that point for three years. Okay. So going back to that are you circumnavigating UK law? Well we moved I even imported my car from the UK. I've been studying at an Irish university I've been working. So I'd like to think that we can show we are not circumnavigating and we really did move thinking that we'd stay there. Yeah absolutely. So I upsticks and I say I and I went to the UK. I say me because in that process we had to apply for Marco's visa. So I left him behind in Ireland in the November of 2021 not knowing if he would get a visa to join me. Wow that's a step of faith in itself isn't it? Yeah it was. And we invited a lot of people into that process with us so we had a lovely wonderful church and Dublin and we invited the passes to come alongside to pray with us to invite us into that discernment process. Sure. Because a couple that have found it so difficult to travel around and come back to England. Actually if we'd stayed in Ireland we would have got Irish passports in a couple of years. Yes absolutely. And so one half of me was saying well if I stay I can get an Irish passport and it's like the the gold that you know that I can earn by staying but actually I thought I need to place the obedience I have in God where he's calling me above the the gifts of the world let's say. So people would say to me like oh don't leave you're only a couple of years away from an Irish passport but I knew that wasn't the right thing to do because that was just the world talking and that wasn't necessarily God's leading. So perhaps a real sense of those verses from Proverbs 3 isn't it? Proverbs 3 5 to 6 where it says trust in the Lord really not on your own understanding you know trust in the Lord with the will of your heart and he will make your paths straight. So for you your paths have been so incredibly crooked and curvy and twisty and yeah so did this start a straight apart for you I wonder? Well it's interesting you should say that because if I wind back a little bit and when we first got married and we moved to Hungary to be back with the Y1 base in Budapest we had a prophecy team that came from Waiwaam, Slovenia, and they came to practice prophecy and we were some of the people. And they actually said we see a picture and it's this building in the middle of a field. And you can't walk through the field to get to this building. You have to walk, for some reason you have to walk around the complete outside of the field. You have to go all the way around and then you can approach this building. And they did say that this building is a church. So a bit more amusing, the field, walk around a church. Okay. Just got married. But if I pause that there and then move forward, I actually got offered a church, a role at a church in London. Okay. And that's where I left Dublin to go to. So I left in November 2021 and I took up a role at a church in Dublin as a youth pastor, just graduated from youth work, loved young people, my, you know, stamp of approval, let's say, I want to go. I want to serve in that way. But it did mean leaving my husband behind. The church were very good. I explained everything. They said, if you come and your husband doesn't get the visa, we understand. We're okay with that. And that was a step, that was amazing in it. So, you know, for them to be so gracious and that decision. So I went and I first started living with my sister because I didn't have anyone to live. Came back, came to sorry, living with my sister. So commuting into the church in London. Yes, exactly. Commuting from sorry into the church in London. And it came, it came the natural time where I had to look for an apartment. You know, didn't, again, didn't know if Markle was going to get the visa. I started looking in the low clary where the church was and started looking at apartments. And I went to view a few, they all looked the same. I didn't really know. But then I did go and visit this one in the December. And I was walking around and the lady who rented the apartment previous to me, she actually was there and the land lady and the estate agent weren't there. So she actually gave me like a lovely tour of this building, in a more ad hoc way. And so she had the doorbell ring and she goes down to open the door to the estate agent. And in the meantime, I have a little peek in the cupboard because I want to have a look around. I know one's here. It's open. And I'm peeking right in front of me. There's a fan, a desk fan, a normal white desk fan. And in the middle of it, the brand name was Marco. Really? Wow. And Marco is spent with a K, not a C. So most people will say M-I-R-C-K. But they said M-I-R-K-O. And it was staring at me. And I thought, okay, I'm going to have to take the apartment. Also in the closet was one baby sock, a white baby sock. But I put that to the side. And I thought, weird. But anyway, I just went with it. And I said, yes, I'll take the apartment. So everything was signed. And so I moved there in the January, living there alone, again, not knowing if my husband would get the visa, again, the church was very gracious to me every three weeks. So let me fly back to Dublin to be with him for a week. So it was really-- Oh, I mean, it did have time to get there. But by the church, it's great. I'm so grateful for that. They were really wonderful in that season. And in the March of 2022, we got the good news that Marco got his visa. And he was coming to the UK. Oh, my gosh. How long did that take? Trials, tribulations. Since 2017, then, you were looking for that visa. Is that right? Yes, really. Yes, really. Yeah. From 2017, we were looking for the visa. This was 2022. This is five years later. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I flew back to Dublin. We had this victory. We tried to sneak in a quick holiday to Portugal, which we did. We managed to do. We managed to do. Oh, I appreciate it. Which was wonderful. But because of the common travel area, between the United Kingdom and Ireland, it's a separate travel agreement. Okay. I could fly from Dublin to the UK and not get a stamp in my passport. Okay. So we did that. We flew from Dublin to the UK. Yeah. The next day, we flew to Portugal. Obviously. When we came back to get a passport, there was no stamp in his passport. So we actually got detained at that immigration. Because they said, you're here in this country. You've come from Dublin, but you've actually come from Portugal. You need to go over there and wait and we need to look at your documents. Ah, I see. We can let you in. Yes. So again, nail biting. We were stuck at border control, basically. And they came back and said, look, you've got a refusal. You've got a couple of refusals on your visa documents for the UK. Like we can see you've been refused quite a number of times, which you had by that point because they tried to visit on numerous occasions in midnight. Yes. I'm sorry. We're going to have to take it. We're going to have to go back and just check out your documents. So he was sitting there going, but, God, you've given us this visa and I've moved and he's here, but he's not here. You know, it was really this moment when you felt like it was all going to be taken away completely. Absolutely. I was sitting in this glass container in Gatwick Airport and there was other people there and it was just very unpleasant. And then they came out and, you know, they do the whole come with me. So we went to the desk and they said, okay, we've looked at your documents you can come through. And we've actually advised that they take away, they remove, they delete all of the refusals off of your records. Amazing. I lost the thing. Oh, my goodness. Like this journey that I've been on that it's almost like it's been a stain on his records every time I've applied. Yes. And it's gone. Have you ever been refused? I've had to write yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Multiple times going yes because yes because yes. And every time I've done it, it's felt like I was just showing the black marks on his records. But when I stood there and the lady said, yep, you're free to go. I've recommended that they take it off. It was like lifted. It was absolutely lifted for me. So we, the hand of God, hey, I mean, really, it's faith and the way that he was bringing it all together. Really. So that's me. So we moved into, we moved into the flat that I'd been renting on my own, etc, etc. And then we fell pregnant with our daughter and we had her in the December. Oh, how lovely. As a British citizen then. Yeah. But presumably she can also get support. Yes. So I'm British. So she is. So now we're at the process of going through to get her Serbian citizenship. So it hasn't been plain sailing since he's been here. You know, he was only allowed in the country for six months at the beginning. So we had to then reapply and go through that again. But then he was granted his five years out of necessity. We had to move because unfortunately, because I started renting that apartment in London by myself. Yes. And when he arrived in the country, he needed a document that said he had the right to rent. Okay. He didn't have the right to rent because he was only here on 10 Provis. I see. So if our land lady had asked to see the document proven that he was he had the right to rent. He couldn't prove it, even though he's married to me. And he's here legitimately. It's all the kind of worms. So we didn't actually tell her that he was there, which meant that by the time the baby came, because I was heavily pregnant by this point, I'd have a baby in the apartment and a husband in the apartment and she wouldn't know about it. So we had to step out again and go, "God, you bought him here. We know it's all legal. It's all red tape. But now we need to move on again. We need to pick up sticks again." Okay. And so we went to live. That's when we moved out to Surrey. Okay. And we went to living in Gilford. I had our baby, our daughter. But it was actually my sister's apartment and she was moving. She was selling upshop. Oh wow. So again, we had to move. Okay. So then we moved out over to a different part of Surrey. And we were renting, which was lovely. It was fine. But there was always a part of me that wanted a home. And if I go right back to my story of my childhood where it was a difficult home life, it was unstable in the sense of it was emotionally unsafe, there was always a part of me that never really quite felt like my feet were on the ground until the house was in my name. Of course. Of course. There's longing for a place to call your home. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And there was almost a little bit of fear as well. If I think back to the apartment that we lived in in London when the landlord didn't know my husband was there and she didn't know I was expecting a baby. And every time she came over, I'd have to move all his shoes. I'd have to take one toothbrush away. I'd have to take down all the pictures of us because she couldn't know that he was there. Even though you were legitimate. Absolutely. Absolutely. There was just this constant feeling that I cannot be free in this relationship that I feel the Lord has blessed me with. And led me into. So finally this year we bought a house which is one form. Yes. And so so God given, you know, it was an auction, first time buyers on auction. Don't really recommend but you can get a bargain out there if you look. First of all. And we won the auction and the mortgage went through even though we told it we were told it wouldn't buy the surveyor for a certain reason. But again, prayed and it did. So now we have our lovely home and it feels good. It feels right that we're there. It feels like the Lord has blessed us in that way that we've finally got our feet on the ground. That it is our family home that we can raise our daughter in a safe house. Of course. In a home that she loved and fully adopted into and everything like that. So it feels like a new season is upon us but it didn't come without challenges. And many are suitcase honestly. I can travel very handy now. It's just you need to teach me. So it's not one of my skips. Wow. So calculating then all of the different moves that you've had since. I suppose knowing Marco, is it about 12 moves? Is that right? So since dating, it's been about 12. Okay. I mean, that's quite spectacularly unusual, I would say. I think most couples, I think most listeners would go flip. That is a lot of moving. And they do say, don't they, in relationships that actually moving house, can be one of the most stress-inducing scenarios for couples to go through. So the fact that you have weathered that for 12 times over and you've been married now for seven years. Seven years, yeah. I mean, well done, Hannah. I think you're impressive. You know, God's grace, of course. Thank you, of course. Yes. But what a story. I mean, do you feel in some ways a little bit comparable to Abraham in the Bible, when God says to him, right, that's it. I want you to leave this place. I want you to upsticks and go where I'm going to show you. I feel that you can resonate with that. And my sister, I remember being in Ireland and thinking, there's been many a point when we've moved. And I've said, God, I want this to be the last time I've moved. I move. Really genuinely. Yeah. I'm telling you, God, I don't want to pack a bag again. I want to be here. I want to be rooted. And it just wouldn't happen. It wouldn't happen. You know, we moved within Ireland. We moved outside of Ireland. We moved so much. And I remember calling my sister, she said to me about Abraham and said, wherever he went, he would make an altar for the Lord. So wherever he was planted, so just make all he stopped for rest with the tribes of Israel, he would light an altar for God. And at that time, I thought, well, you know, I really just want to lay down tools and just settle somewhere. But that stuck with me. They really did stick with me. So wherever I've gone, I've tried to make it an altar for the Lord. I've tried to give it back to God. I'll try to be grateful, even if it was a room, you know, for a large proportion of our married life. We were renting a room and living with other people. That's really tough for a married couple. Yeah, exactly. And we're of the disposition that we have lived before we got married, we live with many other people in a Christian community. So we're quite used to it. We go with the ebbs and flows of it. But in a wider world, you want to get married? You want to have your own home, right? Cool. But after 70s of not having that and actually living with other people and having to justify why you should have this extra space because you're a married couple in the house and this and the other, it gets quite Tyson. But after my sister told me that, I did try and just surrender every place that we had to go to and say, it's from you, it's okay, I am safe. I just have to be patient and ride the storms of backpacking. Absolutely. Yes, yes. And, you know, this doesn't often happen to me, but even as you were speaking there, I just had such a sense of the significance that actually it's the seventh year for you of your marriage. And God's given you this home in your seventh year. Seven is in the Bible a symbol of perfection and completion, isn't it? And it just feels like God's saying to you, and to mark, you know, well done, you've been so faithful, you've followed me around Europe where I've asked you to go without knowing the destination ultimately. And actually, you know, here you are and I'm going to give you rest. You know, and it just feels like this is a place of being established, being rooted in, enjoying your new home, you know, enjoying your little girl, growing up in that place together. And yeah, I just just want to say that to you that I really feel the sense of what I'm saying, you know, this is going to be rest, you know. And I think for all the listeners as well, you know, where they've been able to resonate even with aspects of your story, if not all of it, because obviously your story is unique and quite remarkable. The patience that you must have had through those times of waiting. But I'm sure that listeners can resonate, and I know I can, with that sense of saying, you know, God asks us in every single circumstance we are to make that altar, you know, to say, actually, you know, I'm going to choose to thrive where I'm planted for this season. However long that a season is, you know, that's how out of our control, isn't it ultimately? Actually, we can choose to thrive. It's the disposition of our heart, it's the inclination, our attitude. And yeah, I think it's amazing that your sister, yeah, just reminded you of that, to making that altar in every single place you go. And you know, I'm sure that you want it ongoing as your attitude in the future. And I certainly do as well, you know, I think it can be very easy for us to get discontented with our circumstances and think the grass is greener over there, you know. And so that challenge, challenge for me today, that sense of saying, you know what, look where you're at, look what God is doing in that space and just embrace it and thrive, choose to thrive with God's help, you know, that it's character building. You know, he's not, he's not ultimately concerned about our happiness. Yeah, let's be frank, you know, God is concerned about making us like Jesus, you know, so every event that we go through is character building opportunities. Absolutely. And you know, you sit here before me today and I'm sure that you are a much more mature woman in your compassion, in your patience, in your understanding of yourself, in your tolerance, in some situations, than you were even seven years ago. So nothing is wasted. No, no. And bringing our conversation full circle then, Hannah, in that sense of nothing is wasted. I mean, looking at what God has planted into you through these circumstances, you know, I'm really excited now for your next chapter because you have told me that you have this new job opportunity and within it that you will have scope actually to come alongside young people and really empower them with the things you've been learning. Can you just tell us a little bit about that before we wrap up? Yeah, I mean, that's the hope, isn't it? That's the hope that God will use all of our, you know, experiences that are God given. He gives us the experiences to use, to give back to him for his glory. But I am looking forward to it. It's going to be a new challenge for me. It's working for local council. So it's more within a structured government system, let's say. But I think I'll thrive from that. Yeah. And I'm hoping that the young people that I work with will just see a bit of hoping me that I can meet them where they're at that they can just see something in me that gives them a little bit of hope or curiosity about, okay, what's her story and why is she here and why is she doing this? Because she wants to work with me and all of those questions. So yeah, something about passing on wisdom, but a different perspective on things. I think when you travel, which many of your listeners, like I'm sure, have been privileged to travel across the world. It does open up your eyes to a certain, a different way of living, a different way of seeing things, a different way of doing your life as a Christian. Certainly for me, coming from the Y1 background and living with missionaries in different countries, seeing faith practice in different ways. I'm excited to see you, how God will use me in this next season. And it almost feels like now we're in our new home. There's a part of the Bible that speaks about, you know, I give you a little, little to look after. And once you've stewarded that well, I'll give you even greater to steward. Yes. And actually, through the homes and the rooms that we've rented, I've tried my best to steward them. And it feels as though the Lord has now said, you've stewarded them really well. Just little four walls in that window and that wardrobe you've stewarded really well. That fan with Marco. That fan, that one baby sock. Yes, really. You know, now here is your inheritance, so to speak. And that's wonderful. And I'm excited. This podcast is like a time capsule when I listen back to it in ten years time. Let's see where I would go. I really am amazing. Come back. Yes, I suppose it will be. Yeah. I can see the hand of God on it. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story, Hannah. It's been really interesting and exciting to hear it. And also just for the nuggets of wisdom that you've given us to consider about our own faith and our own walk with God. Thank you so much for your honesty in that. Can I pray for you before we go? Oh, and for listeners who've resonated. Oh, yes, please. Yeah. So, Father God, thank you so much for Hannah. Thank you for her beautiful story, for her faithfulness that has been evident throughout her years of knowing you, Lord, and for your faithfulness to her in bringing her to this place, Lord, to this new season of her life with this beautiful family that you've given her, Lord, her husband, her little girl, this new home. Father God, thank you that you have been teaching Hannah the amazing truth that in every single situation in her life she can choose to look for what you are doing and she can choose to listen to your wisdom above the world's wisdom. But also, Lord, that she can choose an attitude of thankfulness and praise and just thanksgiving to you, God, that she can see that place, that physical place, that emotional place, that spiritual place as an opportunity to build an altar and to focus on you. And Father, that is something that really resonates with each one of us as listeners that we too can have that attitude. I pray that that attitude will be cultivated in our hearts. Therefore, the other things in this episode that have resonated with listeners. I pray that you would draw so close to them. I pray, Holy Spirit, that you would minister to them. Lord, thank you. for those who have themselves experienced depression, suicidal thoughts, you would have great uncertainty about their purpose in this world. Father, I pray that you would draw close. I pray that you would whisper your tender encouragement to them, affirming them as your daughters, affirming them as valuable and beautiful and beloved. Father, I pray that you would help us to go deeper with you and look for the stories that you are writing in our lives in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you so much for listening in to Carry Shales today with me, your host Katherine Grimes and our beautiful guest and a big thank you to all the women who make Carry Shales podcast possible for your generous support. You know who you are and we are eternally grateful. A big thank you goes out to David Campion of Open Sky Media for editing and producing this episode and this is where you come in. If you have enjoyed listening to this episode please help us by growing the Carry Shales community of women of faith. You can leave a review or a rating, pass the stories on and look for the stories in your own life as well. Thank you and look forward to talking with you next time. you