A Love Letter to California Wine: Exploring Terroir featuring Winemaker Helen Keplinger

(upbeat music) Well, hello and welcome to The White Access unfiltered podcast. I am delighted to be back in our studio today in the great state of California, where I was not born. Hence, the whole theme of this episode, which is a love letter to California. Some of you probably already know that I grew up on the East Coast in Philadelphia. And when I moved out here to California, this place was way bigger and way more diverse than I ever gave it credit for. And since being here and learning about this place, I've come to realize that a lot of people sort of thought the way that I did when I was growing up, I didn't realize that California wasn't just this one big homogenized place. It was this incredible state that had diverse terrain and lots of different grapes and beautiful places that didn't look like each other within a two to three hour drive. And it was kind of wild to me. So that's what today is all about exploring California and all the different terrains and taruars. And there's really no better person to do it than my guest today, Helen Kaplinger, Windmaker, extraordinaire here in Napa Valley, but also all around the state of California. Welcome. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Try to live up to this expectation here. There's no expectation. This is just two gals hanging out. Yeah, wine. Cheers. You have Friday. Friday. Friday. We love a Friday wine podcast. It smells so yummy. OK, so this is your wine. And for those of you who are part of the wine access and filtered podcast wine club, well, I should mention two things. Number one, we don't usually do this. We don't usually have the wine maker of the wine from the podcast on the show. We tried to keep them separate, but I thought it was really appropriate to do it today. But for those of you who are part of the podcast wine club, this is your wine today. Do you be saved for a million or for a million? For a million. For a million. For a million. And what is the meaning behind the name? So for a million is actually a collection of hues. And it was a popular color in Renaissance times for paintings. But it's a range of red hues. It was made from cinnabar originally, but it runs all the way from kind of a lighter orange-hued red to a darker, really red-hued red. Oh, so we thought it was the perfect name for this wine because the swine from its inception has always been a blend of reds. And that also changes a little bit every year, so it's encapsulated in the name. I love it. It's super appropriate. If you look at the back label of this wine, there's a lot of grapes and a lot of places. And that is not easy to do, I suspect, as a wine maker, right? Like to pull grapes from all these-- I mean, these are close places. These are many hours drive to get everything together, right? Yes, they are. It's so wide. So wide. Did you grow up here? I guess I just started there. Did you grow up in California? No, I grew up close to you in Ohio. And then did undergrad on the East Coast, in Massachusetts, lived in Boston, did years an English teacher volunteer in Thailand, traveled a lot, returned to Southeast Asia, moved back to Boston, thought I would go to medical school, and then in the process of working on applications for you to turn yourself inside out and try to figure out what your true desires are. I came to really find that I really wanted to find something to pursue that I would love every day. And I was always interested in wine. My family and my parents were huge wine drinkers and wine lovers. My mom is an incredible cook. They, for their honeymoon in 1967, did Michelin starred restaurants in France. I mean, they were just-- My parents were so cool. They were ahead of their time. And they loved wine. But my dad had a wine seller, but was never a trophy drinker. He would research wines that were very value-oriented wines that could deliver pleasure, but could be not so painful in the pocketbook so that they could enjoy them every night. So it was just a lifestyle. It wasn't-- they did have great bottles. But every night, they just drank wine. Do you remember what some of his favorites were? Were there favorites were? Like that were not so expensive? Totally. I mean, when I was really little, it was the palmest sons and the Lancers. And all of these bottles, which I totally collected, I would have the interesting bottles in my room when I was a kid. We had very different childhoods. But then they had Mandavi. They had Martini that a ton of Louis Martini wines. So they were California drinkers? Largely California drinkers. Which I feel like was kind of unusual in that time. For the East Coast, as well, which tends to be a more European leaning area. Now he and my mom's brothers as well. They all had similar sellers. Ruthie's Mandavi, Louis Martini, BB. So did you come out? Did your parents come out here? And did you come with that? They came out, but they didn't take us on their house. They would come to San Francisco and they would leave us at home. There you go. Coloring box will be in California. Yes. So no, they didn't bring us. The first time I came, I was-- I think I was 20 maybe? Yeah. And that was a long time ago. I won't tell you how long ago, because you can do the math. But it was before the time of high traffic and nap of allian. Right. Doing the bike tours was totally easy, because there was no traffic. And so we biked all around the valley and wine tasted was really fun. And obviously not really considering wine as a career at that point, though. No, not at all. Just like-- I was on this-- Like an avid customer. Yeah. You know, interest in science track. So no, it was just pure enjoyment. But then after-- so when I was living in Boston and I had done medical research for a few years-- Cold and tired. Yeah. And there was a great wine shop in Western mass. I used to go to, and I'd read about wine and buy a case and try to learn a region while I was doing these, you know, let's go to med school pursuits. And then when that-- when I really realized, and which just wasn't so sure, that that would be what I wanted to do for my whole life, that question in your 20s that you try to answer the field so overwhelming. Because it is overwhelming. But in that time, I was really trying to tease out what are the interests. And I loved nature. I loved travel. I loved art. I loved history. I loved food. I loved wine. I like science. You know, all of these things that really tied together in wine-- Totally. --in wine making. And so I found that Davis had a graduate program in viticulture and inology. And once I discovered that, I stopped the medical school applications. I'd done the first round. Yeah. But I stopped. And then I just-- I decided to go travel. And so I went back to Southeast Asia, did a cross-country trip, moved to California, applied to Davis, and-- --5,000. --that, yeah. Sort of. Yeah. What were your first perceptions or impressions of California when you got here? Did you know how big this place was? No. And I also, I think at that time, the wine industry felt very impenetrable and very local. Like from a professional standpoint. Yes. Because actually, when I graduated from undergrad, I applied to this really broad range of laboratory positions. But I liked wine then. So in addition to applying to the electron microscopy lab in Colorado, I applied to a wine lab thinking I could do-- that would maybe that's in. And that could be interesting for a little bit. No one replied to me in California. Really? And then when I was a grad school at Davis-- That's a great day. --that I was a grad school at Davis. I had researched all of these super talented wine makers who I admired. And I wrote all of them cover letters and set my resume. And I mean, again, I had very few-- Heidi Barrett was basically the one who looked at my resume and said, yeah, let's give it to Ren Harris at paradigm and said, you need to interview this girl. I was kind of like, chill. So-- So cool. But nobody else replied to me. So it just felt very local. Yeah. I think for some people, it does feel that way even still. Do you feel like Napa's changed a lot? I do. I feel like it's changed a lot. We have so many people from-- I mean, you're from Philadelphia. Yeah. I mean, name the people who you know who actually were born in Napa. And it's quite few. I think it's quite a dynamic group now of people who've come here because of a passion for food or wine or hospitality. Totally. Well, it's the place, right? It's the place that you didn't know existed that if you were a food and a wine lover, and you love beautiful things and you love to travel, it's crazy the amount of things that you have in this tiny little place. It's true. All these little luxuries that shouldn't exist in this farming community. Right. And in addition to that, connections to the same-- the people who have those same loves or interests in many other places around the state, on the West Coast, country, world. So it just-- it feels like endless possibility. Yeah. It is so special. I'm glad that we're doing this episode because I think there is such a deep love for this place that if you live here, you understand it. And I think if you visit here, you understand it to a degree. But I don't know. There's just-- it's just so much bigger and different than I think I ever could have realized growing up in the East Coast. And obviously coming from New York is a sum where everything is European, European, European, you know, California is this one thing. It can't do, you know, all shardneys from here, Oki and Butterie and Big and all, and Cabernet's are Oki and Big and over the top and then you get here and you're like, "Wow, look at this, it's like a few other things happening here that we're not aware of on these coast." So I think, you know, it's time that we sort of pull back the curtain on this place. I know that you source from a wide range of ABAs, which we will dive into, but can you take us like on a little road trip down California, maybe starting to where there's wherever you wanna go, and kind of guide us through this very big stage. - Oh my gosh. Well, for this one, or just in general. - Well, let's do this one, so this is like, you know the road map here. - Okay, yeah. - Okay, so first a little bit about for a million. So my husband and partner in crime, DJ. - Yes. - And I make Kepplinger wines, which are started with Ron Varietals, and I guess I have to back up another step because I made wine in Priorat for three years. And I went there because I was really just so fascinated and impressed by the wines made there. And then working there, it just fell so head over heels for the Varietals, which the main varietal is Grinache. And if you think about Priorat, it was such a lesson in Terroir because it's a region that largely has one Terroir, which is Ligarea, which is slate and clay, you know, packed into these like little matchbox sized pieces on these crazy slopes. But the structure of that soil means that you have vineyards that can be dry-farmed because the roots can make their way through all of those little fissures. And the pieces of rock actually break quite easily. So they're old vineyards. And when I was there, I worked with 100 year old Grinache and Caronion, and it was incredible. But I think the big take-home lesson for me was that I worked with Grinache for maybe, you know, six, seven different sites, and the wines were wildly different. So same soil, but all of these different communes within the region had different elevations, different aspects, different slopes, different humidities, temperature gradients, and they made really different wine. And so when I came back to Napa, I wanted to start with that because my thought was that this would be my little passion project and it would be something that would kind of keep me sharp and keep me fulfilled. And I could explore Grinache and, you know, rone varieties in this area. And so we started coupling her as single vineyard and in that process, you know, our single vineyard wines were a little more expensive. And we had a lot of people who would say to us, we love your wine, we save it for special occasions. And also in the process of making that wine, not everything would go into those wines. I would still sit down and look at every single barrel and what, you know, things would be, different blocks would be harvested or fermented separately. It just depended on how the season went. And so not everything made those final wines 'cause the goal was to make the best wine. And so I would occasionally have little bits that didn't make it. And so we, you know, different things happen with those over the years, but it was always very heartbreaking to see great wine just kind of not make it into the bottling. And then also to have this interest in, and so this comes from an intersection of things. So, you know, really great left over wine, wanting to make something that was much more accessible, having the experience of being in Europe and drinking very fair priced wines that were so good. They were just simple and enjoyable and well made and very well priced. So really great. So we wanted to do something like that. And then also a lot of inexpensive wines in this country, this is the dirty little secret in the Patentel, are leftovers bought up from other people. And that's called bulk wine. And the prices for those are quite low, which drives a low price. So the only problem with that is you don't really know what's been done to that wine. And in wine making, I really care the most about the site and the farming. And then when you have those two things, you don't really need to cover anything up with weird or wild wine making tools. And so it was finding really good vineyards that were fair priced, making them in a very simple way, using similar techniques that I used with Kepplinger, like low temperature aging, so that they can be aged with very little sulfur, not finding, not filtering. Just trying to make a great wine that you could feel good about and you could still feel good in the morning after drinking it, but for a good price. And so that was the, that was for a million. So because of that, the great market fluctuates. And so in finding fruit that can be, that can meet this price point, I've had to move. And so I have a lot of-- - You have to get creative. - Yeah, you have to get creative. So I have a lot of experience working in the foothills and by and large, a lot of that food is quite well priced. It's gotten a lot more expensive over the years, but that's the first place we'll go. So from Napa, you travel up toward Lake Tahoe, north or south, doesn't really matter. But that whole area has these gorgeous vineyards that have incredible soils. And the formation of the seeras, they were kind of sloughed down and then pushed back up. And so the soils are, they run the gamut from basically two main types. One is this volcanic seara uplift soil. So it's a red volcanic, and then it has big chunks of quartz and basalt, chale, soapstone. And then you also have other places that are lava caps. I guess I'm still, this is still in the volcanic, compared to category, but volcanic, really red soils. And then granite and decomposed granite with these soils that look like granola. And so they make beautiful wines. They're just high elevation. - And temperature wise, we're in a very different place as well. - Temperature wise is very different because you're farther away from the ocean. So the big difference, when you're near the ocean, the temperature summations are quite gradual because you have the influence of the Pacific or the San Pablo San Francisco Bay, if it's Napa and Badao and Sonoma. But those temperatures kind of come up more slowly during the day and drop down more slowly at night. In the foothills, you get precipitous increases. It just goes straight up. But at night, it drops straight back down. So you get these wild swings of 50 degrees between daytime and night. And that cold air is really coming from the higher elevations coming down. So really incredible region. - And so what does Roorne-Well grape wise in somewhere like the Sierra Fletilles? Like, is it Cabernet? Is it Grenache? Is it something else that we have never talked about? - Yeah, it's funny because I think it's one of, I think some of the old guard in the Sierra Fletilles feels like part of the problem is they don't have an identity of we grow this. - Yeah. - But the huge upside is that they can grow so many things. I mean, okay, the exception of really good Pinot Noir and really good Chardonnay, but they can grow Cabernet. I think their strengths are the Roan Varietals, the Italian Varietals and Spanish Varietals. So, and is that because of that temperature swing? Is it because of the soils? What do you think? - Yeah, I think it's both. - And does it remind you of when you were in Priorat or do you find them to be just completely different? - Different. - Yeah, because the soils are really different. But I think for, you know, on those granites, you can make really incredible mineral-driven whites, mineral-driven Sera, just gorgeous. - You forget how broad Sera can be. - Totally, which is so fun. - Yeah, Gammay. - And then if you think about the volcanic soils, I mean, you've got the Kronash and Mordved and Koonwaz and Bird Baron. There's Nebiollo. I mean, so there are a lot of different things, I think. - But you're not like grapes that you normally, like you don't normally hear Nebiollo and Kronash in the same sentence, like true. They don't normally play together. Which I also think is sort of the beauty of California is that I can do, you know, I can provide a place for all of these different grapes to have a home. - True. - Is not the case in most places. - True, and I mean, I think visualizing the Sera foothills helps because you're dealing with a topography that has faces, right, different aspects. So you can put the Nebiollo in the straw on a North face and it really moderates those daytime highs. And you can put something that likes heat a little bit more, like a Garnash River, on a south or a west, and really use just the topography of the region to your advantage. So do we know on this wine, what came from where? - Yeah, so that's just here. - Sera foothills is, you know, 'cause if you look at the back of this label, it's 42% Kronash, 40% Sera, 9% Pistachite Sera, 4% Morved, 4% Graziano, and 1% Cabernet is so being on. And so, yeah, first mystery behind door number one is Al Dorado, we have Kronash and Morved. - Okay, from the Fiddles. - And do they come from anywhere else in this blend? - Yes. - Okay. So how does the Garnash and the Sera from Al Dorado different from another place? Like do you find brightness there? Like do you feel like the grapes? Like what do they give you that's different? - Oh, it's such a great question. I think the beauty of Kronash and Morved and I'll start with Garnash 'cause they're different. So the Garnash and the Fiddles has the beautiful red fruit, you know, the kind of the wild strawberries. Maybe a little kerosp, but it's not really very kerosene. And then it's got lots of gareeg. So really beautiful gareeg. There's so much gareeg as well. Wild herbs. And a really pretty floral note. And then the Moorvede is really interesting in this region because most of El Dorado is very-- there's granite. But a lot of it is volcanic, the red soils. And the Moorvede, I find from up there, is very roasted herbs and gunmetal lavender and shows kind of a red iron character from the soil. So really cool. And they don't get because of that, that those two from El Dorado, El Dorado is a pretty high elevation region. So it's not really hot. And so you get to moderate it like a really pretty balance and a great minerality from those two varietals in that area. Gosh, I just keep going back to this wine. And if you're drinking with us, I think you could throw-- if you're like a dart board-- with all of the different things. You could throw a dart and you would land on something in this class because there's so many different things going on in here. But it's crazy how cohesive it is. You think with so many things in the pot-- - Something similar. - Something similar. But they don't. They work super well together. And I think it's fun as we're talking about this. And I'm smelling the wine. And it's got that Gary, and it's got the sort of that leathery saddle, erby lavender. There's so many different things. Do you find that this wine-- and I've only played with this handful of times. Like, as it sits in it opens, is it something that changes aromatically? - Totally. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Definitely. And I find-- I mean, in general, I haven't seen it yet with this, but often when you have those blends of the different varietals, they just-- you might open it one time and the more that might be showing more, you might open it again. And it might be the cronash. But I think that's what's so wonderful about wine is to see the wine change. - Yeah. - Well, it's also what makes a wine like this so perfect at the price point. And that it is for like a Tuesday, Wednesday, and night wine is that it can be all of these different things. So you can have it throughout the course of the week. If you're someone like, I don't drink a full bottle of wine tonight because I will die if I do that every night. But it's one of these wines that I can open on a Monday and have a glass of until Thursday or Friday. - Definitely. - And have it kind of play with lots of different things that I'm eating because it has all these things to work with. - Definitely. - Which is fun. - Definitely. - Yes. And it's made to be like that. I actually, I guess, just in preferences and philosophies of wine making, I prefer to have wines that have evolution and that you can open on one night and keep drinking it over the course of a few days and that over the course of an evening and then those few days it continues to evolve and showcase something a little bit different. - Yeah. - So. - It's really fun. - Yeah. - Where should we travel to next? - Okay. - Next we'll go down, so we'll head back west and then we'll head south and we'll stop and pass the robles. So this is a super fun, I'm gonna stop you 'cause I know every, no, not like we always stop you. I just would like to point out that she said, pass the robles. I can't tell you how many people tell me that I say pass the robles incorrectly. - That's pass the robles. Is that what we're supposed to say? - No, that's anyone you talk to you in Paso says pass the robles and I know. - Oh, okay. - I've asked many people like what is wrong. - No, it's possible. - No, I'm pointing out that you who work there and know that like we've spent time in Paso together, I posted a number of videos on Paso and I've asked the people who run like visit Paso, travel a path like how should I say this properly? And every time it's Paso robles and then every time in the comment section it's just these wars. - Robles. - Yes. - Well, Robles. - Right. - So yes, is there a traditional Spanish pronunciation? - Absolutely, but we also don't say like Los Angeles. Like it's not, we say Los Angeles. Like so anyway, back to Paso. Sorry, I just had to sidebar. If for anyone out there he's like, it's not the realm, it's not. It's not. - So what do you want? - Do you want it? - It's fine. Just don't fight with everyone in the comments. - I mean, I think in the course of this conversation it'll be really clear that every region you can't really just summarize in one sentence. There's variability to all of them, which might feel overwhelming, but it's really beautiful and it's part of what makes it just endlessly intriguing. And I think we'll never know it all and that's the beauty and that's what keeps it so fascinating. - Yeah. - So Paso robles, if you wanted to break it down into simple terms you have East and West. And I feel like the East side gets maligned because it's the one that's thought of as the lesser and it's an area that's thought of as just being these big expanses of kind of commercially-farmed fruit and it's hot. So I went into it a bit ignorant, but was again looking for well-priced fruit that was farmed well. I knew a farmer who was working on the West side and talked to them about well-priced fruit and ended up looking on the East side. And the East side is fascinating. - Yeah. - It's this huge area. So whatever I describe to you, just realize that it's probably representing 5% of the whole area, which I do not know well. But what I've seen is you do have these big rolling beautiful areas, the properties tend to be a lot larger. But there's also a big piece of it that are all of these la toes and ledges and terraces and creek beds and that it's very interesting. - Yeah. - And the way the air moves through this whole area is very different and it's gorgeous. It's so pretty. - I've really fallen in love with Passover over the last few years. - Yeah. - And West side is amazing too, but totally different. - And I think both from like a, I mean, I don't make wine obviously, but I think from if I had to appreciate the wine making side, like from a wine making side and from a tourism side, I think both are really interesting in Passover and you're seeing again, even within this area that so often gets maligned, you see so much diversity. And it's not just a lot of people think of Passover. Oh, it's the big, it's the big ruined varieties and big huge cabs and big, and it's not like these places within Passover. I mean, there's certainly going to be those styles of wines, but there's so much more there than people realize. - So true. - Yeah, so true. The Grinosh is coming from El Pomer. - Okay. - And that region is, it's a district. So it's the El Pomer district of Pasarobles and it's southeast of downtown. And it's this big area that is, again, I don't know the whole region perfectly. - Yeah. - But the fruit that I bought was, it was from like a big hillside and really cool soils. And the soils here are, they're sedimentary, so you're still dealing, you still have this kind of sea floor aspect, you have sedimentary and kind of a silt character. And it's warm, but it's moderated by the Templeton gap, so the cold air shoots through the Templeton gap. And so even though this region gets warm, it still has the cooling influence. - Yeah. - And then east of that is the Creston district of Pasarobles, which is quite a bit bigger. And that has more of the rolling plus the terraces and plateaus. And from there I got some Petitsera and also Morvede, or no, I just said I got the Morvede in Grasiano, so also, sorry, I'm getting like flipped. Petitsera, Morvede and Grasiano came from there. And it's just warmer. So I think that one, what I learned working with that is you just have to be a little bit more on your game in terms of picking. Because again, this is a wine that I don't want to be overblown, it's really intended to be something delicious and very food-friendly. - Yeah. - So I was also told when I was down there, I was going around with another whimemaker that the limestone soils add so much acidity about, like sometimes it can be hard. You kind of have to wait for acids to drop. - Yes. - Do you find that to be the case? - Yes. - Yes, that's true. And the other interesting thing about the limestone is it's a sponge. So that's what sucks up and holds the water. So if you dig soil pits, you'll come across a big piece of limestone with all of the roots plastered against it. - I just was just really interested. - Yeah. - It was a 20-biage, by the way. I didn't want to call him out in case he was wrong, but it was 20-biage. - No, I couldn't confirm it. - Yeah, that's great. So Passo, and you obviously spend a decent amount of time there. - We try to get down once a month, but that's a decent amount. - Yeah, I'm in it. - But sometimes four and a half-ish, five-hour drive, four hours. - Yes, four. - You can make it in three and a half a few times. - Oh, yeah? - Four hours is probably better. Yeah, four or four and a half. - I will note to not drive with you, note it. (laughs) - No, it's more like the weird hours I drive down there during harvest to look at things. - And they're so traffic. - No, it's fun to be down there. And then when you're down there, do you have any, I'm sure, shes'n'em's rude. People are listening. It's really like, we should go to Passo. Do you have any favorite restaurants? - Oh, totally. - Yeah, easy. - Okay. - My like, go to three, which I need to diversify a little bit, but Leipzig and I for sure. And he just opened another restaurant right on the square. Fabulous food with a secret menu. - Yes, with a lot of secrets. - A lot of secret foods. - Yeah, yeah. - But just such good food, like, great food made with loads. - Yeah. - And then their small-a-team is just like, the kindest, most excited, just terrific pairing of songs. - Yeah. - I won't say ever 'cause I don't wanna offend anybody, but they're great. They are great. And then I love in blue as well. Yes, I love in blue. So that's a couple who moved out from Chicago and they make amazing, just small plays, really fresh ingredients, seasonal, creative. They were the first people that ever gave me a fried chicken nugget with caviar on it. Before everyone else was doing it, they did it. Seriously? Yes, this was a few years ago, before I won't call anybody out, but before a few other restaurants. And I chicken nugget and not a tater tot. No, a chicken nugget. OK. Yeah, because you can believe the fried chicken. LPC does the tater tots. I think they may call them something else, but LPC will do the tots with steak tartar and full-do the caviar, but in bloom, we'll do the chicken nugget with the caviar. And that was like a secret menu as well. I loved in blue, I thought that was great. So what's your third? I have a thinka. Oh, I don't know this one. It's a lunch spot. OK, but delicious. What kind of food? Fresh, like, Mexican. Love that, food. OK. Really, really fresh, incredible guacamole. And that is one thing I'm missing on these coasts. Tacos and things like that, just delicious. Yeah, crying up in Ohio, I'm sure your taco game was not strong. I don't think I had a taco game. No, of course we didn't. My tacos were like the hard shell old old palso. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate your tacos growing up. It was not a food that I touched. So again, a revelation in California is like, oh, this is not what they were supposed to taste like the whole time. That's such a-- That's such a-- All right, those are good vacks. I will add a Edo pasta bar if you're in pasta, which is in Tin City. Those guys are awesome. And they also have a great wine brand that specializes in Italian varieties, especially some great, like, unusual white wines. And then if you're going to go for a drink, the alchemist's garden-- Oh, totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. That was great. Well, an Amsterdam is so cool. I don't know how to answer down. Amsterdam Cafe. Oh, yeah. The same owner has the just beaky-z private club. This will all be linked in the description below. Anyways, I'm learning a lot. It's a pretty cool time. I love that. Yeah, I love that. No, Pasto's great. And I told everyone, I'm sorry. I'll link all the things, because I've done some travel guides there. But it's a great place with great grapes. So how much-- so there's a significant amount of grapes coming from Pasto in this wine, 65% Pasto. Yeah. So where should we go next? So from Pasto, if we head south, we'll go through Santa Maria Valley and-- South of-- Try Tip Country. Try Tip Country. South of Santa Maria and North of Sennie and us is Aliso Canyon, relatively new ABA. And the cool thing about that part of the world, Santa Barbara County, is that the mountains are perpendicular to the coast. And so all of those openings allow for unimpeded flow of cold air from the ocean. And this is another region that has that as well. And the soils are largely sands with some clay. Sometimes you get diatomaceous earth. There was more calcareous, shell, limestone kind of in that area. But this vineyard in particular is really fun. And it's unruited old vine, Sera, Estrea clone. And it makes this beautiful kind of ethereal, blue-fruited with sweet peas and triturbs, a green freshness, like a really pretty freshness. And it's super elegant. It's just a beautiful Sera. I love this region. It's quite late for ripening. It's the last thing I pick. Alcoals are always really low, beautiful acidity, and just the textures and aeronatics are so good. Again, going back to Sera just being so many different things. Giving California's diverse-- Yes. Sera is giving it to Raja's money. It's so true. So it's so crazy that people that say that they don't like Sera, like, which-- like, where? From which one? I totally agree. I totally agree. There's so many different versions. It can be as light as a pino. It can be as big as a petit Sera. I like to pass. Yes. Yeah. How it's made, it's just insane. The Sera in this is giving you a little more brightness, moderately. And it's hard to pick these. I don't think the point is to pick everything out. Yeah, I don't. I feel like I can get-- it actually comes across a little more like violets in this class, but there's the kind of this fresh violet character, and there's a really pretty crushed rock minerality. There's a purple fruit character that I think that's the Sera. And then there's this graphite, kind of like a pencil head. Yeah. And that's seven-yard. And that just-- there's this elegance that really ties things together. We've mostly been-- well, that's not true. I guess when we're now that we're in this area, how far away from the co-star we? In the Aliso Canyon, I think there are about maybe 12 to 15 miles, so not far. And then because of the Transverse Mountains, you're basically getting that coastal influence. Right. Pretty cool to share. Pulse-- Pulse in pretty strongly. Yeah. And then as a whine maker, how do you find that coastal influence to affect grapes? Maybe it can change from place to place, but coastal equals what? Coastal equals usually slower ripening, usually better retention of acid, maybe a little less fruit, and a little more minerality. That's not always true, though. Yeah. There's so many exceptions. I know it's hard to draw the generalizations. I mean, it depends on what it is, but in general, you'll have kind of a tempering of fruit character and maybe a greater expression of floral notes and herbs moderating the alcohols later picks. Does it scare you to be more leaner? Yeah. I think in both ends, they're extremes. And I think drinkers and whine makers have preferences. So I think for me, you could get too close to the coast and have something where it doesn't quite ripen. And maybe that acid metabolism is so retarded that it doesn't fully-- it doesn't go as much as I'd like it to. Yeah. And I guess I'm speaking from experience of working with a vineyard that retains malach acid and ends up with really, really high malach acids. And then during the malalactic fermentation, you get a really crazy shift in pH. So it's just getting blindsided by-- Blind change? Really? Oh, this acid comes from. And sometimes you can go so far that I think you don't get the rightness. Right. And when I say, I feel like rightness has been that word has been totally neat into something evil. I'm not talking about overripe. I'm just talking about getting rightness. But then I also think on that opposite side, you can end up with something that's too hot, the alcohol spike, the fruit gets dehydrated. It's just not fresh. So we want ripeness in our fruit. Like, everybody wants to eat an under-ripe cherry. Right. Gross. Right. No different than you'd want to make an up to my flavor development. Yeah. So that's true for any fruit that's too early. Yeah. Next time you want to talk about ripeness, go to the grocery store and just get something that's definitely like a strawberry that's like still white, not intentionally so, and try it. And just see what the green tomatoes are. Totally, if you're not going to fry them and poke them in, delicious butter. Yeah. Do you with that wish you will? So are we the furthest south that you go for this wine? Yes. With Barbara? Yes. That's as far as I go. Yeah. It's such a beautiful area there. I know. I love it. I think that if I-- I'm obviously living on the East Coast again, but if I were to move back to California, and I couldn't go back to Napa Valley, I'd be in Santa Barbara. 100%. Yeah. It's so beautiful. And it's like the weather there-- Yes. It feels very coastal, but it's comfortable. I love too that there's a lack of pretension, and it's kind of casual. Which is just a casual feel. It's kind of just a casual feel. I just kind of give it a proximity to LA. Mm-hmm. No, I love-- it has a laid back character. Yeah. Where do you like to be-- do you like to be downtown Santa Barbara? Do you like to be more like in the wine growing area? Because the wine growing area is pretty far from downtown. Right. I like both. Yeah. I like both. I was just down there and stayed downtown. It was really fun. Oh, nice. Downtown. Downtown's awesome. I mean, I actually-- I think I've talked about it twice now in this podcast. I've talked about Lokita, which is the Spanish, like, topos, please. Yes. So good. So, so good. Yeah. Yeah. I was at the Bacara. And we actually did a podcast from there at the Bacara. And it was just a perfect representation of Santa Barbara. And I think California, if you were to like kind of lump everything, it's just this beautiful vast place that just seems so impressive. And again, growing up in the East Coast, there's nothing quite so big out there that is really comparable to what's in California. Should I find fascinating? And the light is different here. Totally. The light's the best here. Totally. I'm getting married in California because of the light here. Oh. Are you getting married? And we will reveal that later. OK. All right. Sorry. No, don't be-- Spoiler alert. Don't be so sorry. That was a great question. But when we were thinking about all the places in the world to get married, I just kept coming back to California. How beautiful it was and all the different light. And just it's a place that in a lot of ways feels like home, even though it's not. Because I didn't get-- I don't know. It grounds you in a way that I don't really feel in other places. Yeah. That's awesome. So we should travel back up to Napa, or do we always travel in between? No. There's no stop in between. So let's go back to Napa. OK. That's right, because there's a 1% Napa Valley. She can't ignore the Napa. (laughs) So the Napa Valley is just, I don't know if I should say it on camera, but it's like to classify Kepplinger Cabernet so now. So it's from some really great places in Napa Valley, but just didn't make our Cabernet ones. So it's a little teeny piece of something, so it will be a lot more expensive. It's like getting wagyu for dinner at night and then making fried rice in the morning and having that little nubbin go in there. It's so true. That's great. I mean I think Napa's really, really interesting as well. I mean also has a temperature gradient that is influenced by thermos disco and sem Pablo Bayes. So North is warmer in general and South is cooler with that air current, but diversity of soils is really incredible. We have like half the world soil order is in this level. I've heard we have over 100 and 137 different soil types or something like that. But in general, I mean I think you, you know, thinking about California, you have to think about the formation and tectonic plates and fault lines and things like that. So there's a fault line that runs north south in Napa and it's on, actually I'm sure there's more than one fault line, but the one that the main one is it's just of Highway 29, parallel to 29, just west of 29. And so west of that and also this influences a lot of California soils is just remembering that we have the continental plate and you have the Pacific plate and the Pacific plate subducks under the continental plate and scrapes it almost like, you know, the continental plate scrapes it almost like a razor and then you have this buckling effect with the mountains. And so that kind of continues all the way into Napa, the really west edge of Napa. And so the west of this fault line you have kind of those soils and then you have soils that were pushed up and mixed around in the formation of the mountains and then just east of it you have a lot of volcanic influence. And so and those volcanic soils there's also an enormous diversity of those not to make it any simpler. You guys thought it was easy. But I mean you you know you have red volcanic soils that are really iron rich, you have volcanic soils that are basalt, you have volcanic soils that are city and in glass and sort of you know ash everything in between. So the soils that go into these vineyards and then sorry you also have a luvial soils which are all of the sediments that are in you know the rivers and the old creeks that ran through the valley. So just a huge amount of diversity in the valley and I mean it's part of why there's so many different cabernets that taste different. Yeah well and it's also a literal valley which I feel like people forget like we're literally situated between two mountain ranges which everyone forgets. So you also have you know in addition to all of these different soil types you have different elevations, right different expositions and you know not everything is going to taste the same from one avi to another not because of so many different things and it's one of the smaller avi in California which I think everybody assumes not this huge but it's not it's only about 30 miles north to south and like five across or something. Right yeah it is very small and there's a lot that changes within it. So these two main vineyards one has one is mountain top and it's very you know red rocky soils just really beautiful surrounded by wilderness so the wines up there tend to be have really intense fruit and really great structure but also a lot of minerality a lot of dried aromatic herbs and flowers and just beautiful fruit yeah and with that elevation and the structure of those soils the grapes tend to take a little bit longer to really come into balance because there is so much phenolic content and then the other one is right where the mountain meets the floor which is that like sweet spot because you get the soil from the floor and the soil that's left out of the mountains so you get this wonderful combination of really well-drained mountain soil that's not quite as extreme and there's also some protection this is east facing so there's some protection from afternoon and and also remembering a napa you know these two different ranges on the east side we have a vaca if you look at it it's like a lot of scrub and it's very rocky and red and I feel like the wines have that aromatic profile of just what I mentioned kind of dried aromatic herbs tried flowers there's a minerality and then when you look at the west side that western range is my a comis and it's just filled with forest and really refreshes the air and so those wines tend to have more of a forest character forest floor or a fresh green note and kind of a cooling to them and so that's these are these two like teeny tiny bits of carone that go into this wine isn't it why I mean just it's crazy to think that we've we've talked about the state and we've talked about all these different places and then even within these places there's so much diversity there's so much diversity we couldn't we couldn't begin to like we could do 11 podcasts and not even no it's true you could just do one on I mean even within a vineyard there's so much there's just so much change do you think there's anything with you know within the the different avAs and places that we talked about do you think there's one particular that overdelivers on quality for the price right now it's a great question and I feel like from every region I think there are those like $30 wines if you look for them yeah even Napa which kind of blows my mind yeah it's great I still feel like the zero foothills over deliver for the price I think Paso has great wines for the price as well and then I think Santa Barbara wines are very reasonably priced too I do too and I think there's some we've had a Santa Barbara we did um Preskyles Chardonnay I don't know if you know them they're in Santa Marie Valley but they do a Santa Barbara EVA wine that's like 25 30 bucks that's incredible yeah the beauty of of those areas you know Paso Santa Barbara and the foothills is the fruit tends to be less expensive so you you have this ability for young talented people who want to you know try something of their own yeah to be able to the price of entry is attainable and so they can afford to go and by its how I started I mean I started with 250 cases and yeah a very small amount of wine now I have more cases and still anyways well but um but um but anyways I mean I think the you know the price of entry is doable and so you you do have wines that are really really well made and by people who are quite talented and passionate and the prices is very very reasonable where do you think people should be looking in terms of like the other varieties right now you know we've talked about Grinache, Sera, Morved like are there other varieties that you're excited about in the state of California? I think those three regions it's sort of the same it's the same thing like the land isn't so expensive and the fruit doesn't cost so much that it makes sense to plant only you know this variety that you know yields so much more in terms of grape sales and it in you know your land is therefore more valuable or you know your crop is more valuable and so there are people able to experiment with these things and the one variety that I am really excited about that I keep hearing little whispers of finally getting planted you know like finally they're getting clean material is Norello mescalacy really heard that you yes oh yes yes yes yes I know they have a little in so soon because I almost I almost played with that somebody's got to plant it over there I love Norello mescalacy yeah so that I think I don't know that I'm seeing it yet but I'm excited to see that soon I love that yeah I love the idea of Italian varieties especially or more so Sicilian varieties in California like Nuretavola Norello mescalacy yeah it's called Chaco which is not a time Sicilian but you know what I mean yeah it's opening up to more Italian varieties which is really fun and I think that's new that feels new even nebula even yes well you're gonna have to play me the direction of a good California nebula if I find I know I'm still like I'm still not sold a nebula being able to perform outside of I know I know it's true it's true it's true married but that's how it started with you know Cabernet no it's true and it's so cheap and Norean burgundy so I actually asked a very a very famous Italian wine maker why who also makes wine here in California I said why why haven't you guys figured this out yet between Centravese and Nebiollo why hasn't it been done the way that you guys can do it and he said this same thing he said it's just time he said we figured it out with Bordeaux he said we'll figure it out for this yeah I agree it's just nascent right now that's all which is promising I feel and exciting so exciting speaking of exciting I know there's a very exciting event on the horizon for you and for the valley which is the wine of Paul Luzah that our friend Monica Stevens has put on for many years yes kind of part of since the beginning. - Jameson Humane is an incredible organization that Monica started years ago. And its mission is to improve animal welfare and they collaborate globally but act a lot locally. It's very well supported by the local wine community and she has been having this incredible auction in the summer called Wine of Paloza. This is the 14th year. - 12th year? - Yes. - Okay, so 12th year maybe it started in 2014. I think that's where I get my signals from. - Maybe she was conducting it for 14 years. - Probably. - She works really hard with an incredible team of an incredible auction team to come up with really creative lots, wine lots. And there's a beautiful wine tasting and it was the best wine in the valley. - Crazy, crazy lots for the use of wine. - With the winemakers and the vintners and the lots for the auction are really incredible. So first there's a tasting and then there's a sit down dinner with delicious food and there's an auction and some of the lots this year that are really exciting are tacos with Thomas Brown. - So casual. - So there's a scarecrow tasting with Mimi and Brett Lopez and they're incredible people and this wine is such a beautiful wine. There's also every year, Gini Phillips, the original owner of Scrumie Eagle. She's so generous and she donates a large format of Scrumie Eagle. So there aren't many spots left, but if you are a wine lover and an animal lover this is a pretty special event in the community really rallies around it. So I would just go to her website which is-- - wina pauluza.com and we'll link everything in the description so you can take a peek at it, you can see the auction lots when they get announced and then there's also usually a silent auctions or like an online auction that you can take part in as well. - Right, so if you can't make it to the event, that's a great way. You can also just support the cause by donating because it's a great cause and as Helen said, it is really well supported by the community. I think some of the things that they've done that have been more close to home is, especially after the fires and some of these big events. - Effectuation. - Always, we think about our things, we think about our people, but the animals, we have to think about the animals and what happens to them. So, Jameson is always there to support both animal and pets who maybe can't go to hotels and then also like horses and cows. - Right. - And these animals that literally get, on how's the way that other people do. - Right. - And they're there to support and they really do the work. It's kind of incredible. - They do. - Yeah, really do. - So, well thank you for supporting that cause for as long as you have. - As long as you have an honor and a pleasure. - You guys will be pouring, of course, at the tasting. - We'll be pouring, we've poured every year, every all 12 year, all 11 years. I guess. - Fantastic. Well, for those of you who like I said, have been drinking with us, we've had the 2022 Vermillion by Helen Kepplinger. This is delicious. I'm so excited that we finally got to include this. This has been kind of-- - We have two, thank you. - On our list for a little while. A perfect way to explore California and of course get to talk to you, which I don't do enough. But we will of course link everything in the description that you need if you're not a member of the Unfiltered Podcast Wine Club. This is your sign. You're here with Helen, you get great wines like this. It's four wines that get sent to you about every other month, I do the picking along with our wonderful Wine Access team. And it's 120 bucks plus tax, but including shipping. And you get 10% off of all of your Wine Access purchases, which means if you wanna go back, you wanna get more of this wine, you're gonna get 10% off. And that feels like a great deal. So, there's some girl math in there, I'm pretty sure. Thank you so much. - Thank you for having me. - Happy Friday. - Happy Friday, everybody. - Happy holiday, today. Happy hour somewhere. - It's family night tonight. So, if you're watching a movie with my eight-year-old and having a glass of wine on the couch. - Do you know what movie? - No, I don't. We've been doing the vintage Disney movies, but I feel like we've run through a lot of those. - You wanna be watch? - Yeah. But I don't know, maybe the, what's fun what we haven't done, like the King of Egypt we haven't done. There are a few that we haven't done. - It's so strange. I was just listening to the Pensive Egypt soundtrack last night. - Pensive Egypt, thank you. 'Cause that's one of the great songs that Mariah Carey Whitney Houston collab. - Oh. - That's good. - It's a good one. - Okay, I will put in a word for that. - But also like, we don't like the parent trap from the 90s? - No, not yet. - Yes, 'cause that's another. - Yes, I know, I know. He's had sort of a preference for animated films. - That's fair. - I like that. - Yeah. All right, well, I'm gonna go to Charlie's for happy hour 'cause that's where I go. - Oh, I love that. - Yes, I love that. - I love Charlie's. Continue watching, I don't have kids, so I watch the white lotus, Thailand. (laughing) But hopefully you guys will be doing the same as well after this. I wish you all a wonderful weekend or whatever day of the week it is for you. Cheers and I'll see you soon. - Cheers, cheers. - Thank you. (upbeat music)