A Less Than Genius Murder Plot - Gulfport, Mississippi

This week, in Gulfport, Mississippi, it's a race to find a woman who was snatched from her home before it's too late, as her husband takes ransom calls and the police set up roadblocks everywhere. But will any of it matter, or will this seemingly bloodthirsty kidnapper jump right to murder if he gets impatient? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. You did it. An absolutely crazy edition of Small Town Murder. As usual, this one is just wild stuff. I love when it's like a moment-by-moment narrative. That's fun stuff, so we're going to get into all of that and more first, though. Definitely head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. You need to get your tickets for live shows. The live shows are amazing. It is a comedy show with a murder story. 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It's on Peacock now. And it's great. Thank God for Peacock. It's just. The cock has come through for us on this one, thankfully. So we're excited for that. It goes hand in hand with the prisoner dating game and everything. So why not there? Patreon.com slash crime in sports. And in addition to all the stuff you get, you also get everything we put out. Crime in sports, your stupid opinion, small town murder, all ad free with that Patreon as well. Not bad at all. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Can't beat it, everybody. So that said, I'll tell you what. Disclaimer time. It's a comedy. It's a comedy show, everybody. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. We are. We're going to make jokes. And as you can tell by the title of the show, people are going to die. That's how it works here. There's really no other way to do it. Now you go, well, how does that work? Pretty easily. Pretty easy. There's plenty of stuff to make fun of. Plenty of stuff. That's right. Plenty of stuff to make fun of. We make fun of a small town because we're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Nobody's above that. We'll make fun of a police force that lets a murderer just go free so they can kill more. We'll make fun of murderers because. Why not? Why not? What else? What recourse do we have? That's all. We can't go. You know, I can't go down to the jail and, you know, take their commissary away. I can make fun of them. Sure would love to. That's all we can do. So that's it. And that's how it works. But the thing we don't do, we never do, is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. There you have it. See how that works? It's pretty simple. I'll tell you. It's a pretty simple formula here. But if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, and this is true, super weird, maybe we're not for you. But maybe we are. What I would say is check it out. Give it a chance. And then either way, no complaining later. How's that? Because we warned you. There you go. That said, I think it's time, everybody. All right. What do you say? Let's sit back here. Clear the lungs. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip. Shall we? Yeah. We're going to Mississippi today. Fuck. We're going complete opposite of where we were last week in the Pacific Northwest and going to the southeast and as southeast as you can get pretty much as south anyway, because it's Gulfport, Mississippi, which is on the Gulf. It is down there. The mud. It's a muddy one. It's a muddy one down in the big muddy here. It is. This is in coastal Mississippi, obviously, Gulfport. It's about an hour and 20 to New Orleans. If you go to the Gulfport, it's about an hour and 20 to New Orleans. If you go west, about an hour and 10 to Mobile, Alabama, if you go east. So that's where it is. It's about four hours and five minutes to Starkville, Mississippi, our last Mississippi episode, episode 677, Worse Than Murder. That was the episode where the people had gone on the Montel Williams show. It was memorable. It was very memorable for that. I'll tell you. This is in Harrison County, area code 228, and it has a motto. Oh. We have a town motto here. Quote. Anchored in excellence. Oh. I thought you were going to say something about ankle deep, because that's the mud, babe. I was going to say the alternate one is anchored in shitloads of mud, but that's not as popular. Can't move because we're stuck in the mud. Ankle deep. Get ankle deep in. Get ankle deep in Gulfport. That's a good advertising campaign. Much better than great place to live, work, and play. So Gulfport, Mississippi had two villages that predated the founding of Gulfport. Gulfport here. One was Hansborough, and one was Mississippi City. Okay. There you go. That's too many syllables. That's a lot. That's a lot of syllables there, man. A lot of syllables. It was founded in the 1800s along the northern bayous. Mississippi City was born out of the Mississippi City Company that was formed in 1837 to build a town to serve as basically the little headquarters for the railroad there. So it's another one of these railroads. But then they were like, hey, people like sitting by the water, too. There is that. And that's what they get. If you ask me in Mississippi, at least be on the water. Yeah, why not? So then they were later. There's another company later was organized, and they wanted to connect the railroad from the town of Hattiesburg to the coast. And this one guy steered away from Mississippi City because there wasn't a lot of deep water there and selected the site of Gulfport, and the town was founded that year. Then the project was done. The project went bankrupt, and the town was a ghost town. This is in 1893. There was nobody here anymore. It was over. Gulfport was over. Then some Philadelphia oil tycoon purchased the company and built it all up here. So there we go. In 2005, Gulfport was hit by the eastern side of Hurricane Katrina. Right. With the speeds of a wind speeds of 100 miles an hour and 19 feet of storm surge, which will bury your shit if you're at sea level. Yeah. In 2001, houses were damaged or destroyed and completely screwed up the economy of the town. Fucked everything up. 19 feet of storm surge, no matter how high your Ford is jacked up, it's covering it. It's coming. It's coming. Wow. The city got over $300 million in federal aid, which it used to repair infrastructure and fix the roads and the sewers and everything that got destroyed, basically. How about that, James? Whole town. All it cost was $300 million. $300 million. The whole thing. Whole city. Fix it all back up again after it was destroyed. That couldn't work. Rebuild a bridge in New York. No, no. That couldn't build anything down there. Up here, actually, I should say. So reviews of this town, five stars. Here we go. I mean, people make living wages. That might help, too. Yeah. They're not like three guys. They were skimming through the dump sites looking for bottles and cans and said, Hey, you guys want to fix some roads? I'll rebuild the whole thing. About $300 million. Yeah. $300, $310. Anywhere in there. Four buddies out here this weekend. We'll get it done. We always do. So five stars here. Working as a health care professional in Gulfport has given me multiple growth opportunities, as well as extracurricular activities, such as a movie theater. They have a movie theater. Big extracurriculars of the movie theater. Wow. The beach, car shows, and shopping. Gulfport has a little bit of everything with a wide variety of restaurants. It's a tourist place. Yeah. Three stars. Gulf Port is a tough place to describe, but I'm going to give it a shot, this person said, because while it is in the heart of the coast, Gulf Port is troubled with unkempt neighborhoods fueled by poverty and unlivable wages. Well, there you go. I would love to see a shelter for our extensive homeless population and more resources for those living in poverty of all aspects. I thought, never mind. Who knows? One star. Gulfport, Mississippi is for people People who's looking to go to jail, who's who's you can hear the person saying Gulfport, Mississippi, is for people who's looking to go to jail. They have bars, but not enough of them close by to bar hop. That means you're drinking and driving or blowing your money on an Uber. No, it doesn't. Or blowing your money on an Uber. Just pissing it away so you don't kill people out in the streets. You know, pissing it away. Budget that as part of it. Yeah, or stay in one bar. Yeah, or budget that as part of the night or else you can't afford to go out that night. That's bullshit. I don't go out unless I go to three, four in the night and I got to drive. I have to have my car. If you're single, lived in more than three other states, been outside of the country, Gulfport is not the place for you. Mississippi education suck, period. Suck. No comma and one single, single, singular suck. Mississippi education. Education. Education. Suck, period. It sucks, period. Without the comma, that really makes it gross. I'll tell you that right now. Singular suck. Singular suck. So we can only assume. It's so bad it can't suck. It has to just suck. So if this person is sniping about their education system, that is hilarious. That's a beautiful irony right there is what that is. That's hilarious. Or they either, or maybe they went to Mississippi schools and this is the result of it. Yeah. Either way, if you're a couple, you might like it because the casinos are, they're full of couples losing their money. That's what couples do once they get together. You have just an inner desire to lose all your money once you hook up with somebody. Residents here, conversation sucks and is very limited. It sucks. They're limited? You can't come up with a better word than sucks for everything. It is my favorite in a review as a descriptive word. I do love that. It's fucking, it's so perfect. Because you can tell they're so frustrated. Yeah. Like they lost their vocabulary. All they can come up with is this place sucks. I'm just so mad. Right? It sucks. It sucks. You just lose it. Um, if you don't know anyone here, forget about meeting them. Everyone here has kids. I mean, everyone. No. So if you're a single guy like that, a lady, if you're a single guy that like a lady, if you're a single guy that like a lady, that's what he's saying. Wow. Uh, and want to be with her. Be prepared to open your wallets. What does that mean? I don't know what they're talking about. It's a lot of, it's a lot of haters here. Poverty is at its best, even though people act as if they are wealthy here. You can Google for a house here. There's plenty. Biloxi Gulfport and ocean Springs are connected. Drugs are amazing to people. It shows. Yeah. Drugs are amazing. You take them. And you feel completely. So bad. He is just fucking swatting it flies, man. He has no idea what he's doing. This guy is like just shooting into everywhere. Pow, pow, pow, pow, pow over here, over there. You can give a fuck. There's not a scenario that he can think of in this town. That's positive. Nothing. And then my favorite is the last sentence because it has nothing to do with Gulfport. Apparently, uh, prostitution all over the USA is high. All over the very, very expensive is what he's getting out there. Not that it's available, just that it's all out of his price range. Uh, people in this town currently there's 72,468, about 40,000 when the murder happened. So much smaller place, uh, it's grown a lot here because it's by the water. People like the water, uh, more women, James, this is the last like bastion of Southern, uh, sun that you can buy. And it's, I mean, it's almost gone now because the secret got out that it was cheap because it's ankle deep in. Fucking mug. Yeah. But people have definitely like bought in like mobile and places like that. They have those houses on stilts on the beach that they buy and those have become very popular. Uh, more women than men, 51.8% women. That's a lot more actually for a big place like this with population. That's a lot more. So really that guy shouldn't have to open his wallet that much because there's, there's a lot of gals, way more women. And it's only 42% married, which is below the national average. She's saying, he's saying everybody's got married. Uh, but the children party. He might be right. Cause 29% are single with children, which is like three times the national average. So everybody has kids. That's great. Yeah. At least they're saying that he doesn't want to raise somebody else's kids. Guess not race here. 53.2% white, 36.7% black, 1.5% Asian and 5.7% Hispanic. Um, religion here at 50 50 is the average normally here. It's 51.2. So not that high. It's probably as low as you're going to get. You know what I mean? Uh, and the highest one is Baptist as we know. Oh, how about that? Baptists are the Catholics of the South. Uh, but there's a lot of Catholics too, because they're for some reason, a lot of transplants. Well, there's also Catholicism in like new Orleans and shit was very, very, it's a very, very popular thing. So that spread to some of those coastal cities. If you go up 20 miles away from the, the, the sea, you're not going to get any of that, but right on there. Cause a ton of them. Tons of Italians came in new Orleans. That was one of the first places they came, uh, or we came, we should say, um, 0.1% Jewish. Not quite, not quite going to sing a song there. Uh, unemployment here is a little bit high and the median household income is very low. Rest of the country. It's almost 70,000 here. It's 41,250 bucks. Wow. That is really not great. Uh, cost of living 100 being regular average here. It's 82.6. Um, and the house that great, no, the housing is the lowest, actually the housing, uh, median home cost here, $172,600, which is like, you know, 20 years ago prices. That's right. Not too bad. Um, so if we've convinced you, Hey, that doesn't sound too bad. I like the water. I don't mind mud. Well, we have for you the Gulf port, Mississippi real estate report. All right. Average two bedroom rental here, actually much cheaper than the national average, 900 bucks a month, which is three change under the national average house. One is described in the listing as quote, a true blank slate. In other words, this place is fucked up and you're going to have to completely redo it. It's a blank slate. That means fucking level it. Right. Pretty much. It's a three bedroom, one bath, 1,550 square foot house. Um, small lot, not big. Uh, built in 1935 and looks like it hasn't been touched since 1945. It is a mess. The front porch roof is collapsing. No. Yeah. Inside it's just old carpet and it's not good. You need a total redo, but you can hopefully afford it. Just had a two and a half, $2,500 price cut. It is now $38,500. It used to be 40 grand. It was 40 grand. They started out and they're like, ah, it's a little high. Hilarious. $2,500. $2,500. Yeah. Off a house. You can get that knocked off a car at a dealership if you want. That's crazy. Um. That's a rebate. Wow. Here's a three bedroom, one bath, 1,414 square foot house. Um, it's a decent house. This house. Nice. It looks nice on the outside. Nothing's collapsing. Nice front porch. Inside is decent. It's, I guess it's not terrible. It's fine. Built in 1960. So it's old. It's definitely been, you know, kept up with, uh, you know, a little bit refurbished. Um, $105,000 for that. Okay. Not bad. Three bedrooms, 1,400 square feet. And next up, you've done very well for yourself and you want to live on the shore and you're going to do it. Well, this is, uh, on East Beach Boulevard. This house is three bedrooms, four baths, T-bowl for each and every b-hole and one left over 5,008 square feet. Big indoor pool in the backyard. You have these gates that go down to the water. It's, it's pretty amazing. It's not bad at all. 0.48 acre lot to big houses next to you. $2,490,000 to live in Mississippi. Oh my God. That's, that's insane. For half an acre. You know, that's, that's insane. And you're probably paying whatever your mortgage is. It's the same price for hurricane insurance. If they even insure you. That's the other thing. Yeah. That house could be completely taken away in a swell. No problem. And then you're fucked. Things to do here. Well, besides rebuild every once in a while when the hurricanes come through, uh, cruise in the coast. Oh boy. 30th anniversary this year, by the way, of cruise on the coast. Lots of entertainment. There's a lot of like old car shows and things like that's the main cars. They've got a little road there, a main drag that's on the coast like PCH in California. Exactly. Yeah. It's on that Boulevard. Uh, so we have, let's see here. Uh, we have, here are the bands that are on the coast. They're playing Razoo, R-A-Z-Z-O-O. Sure. Ratsu. I don't know. Never heard of them. Uh, the Barlow brothers. Sure. Okay. They sound, that's, you have an idea of what they're saying. Uh. It sounds Creole country. Sure. Yeah. Escalade past Christian. Oh. I don't know. Uh, Scott Hinson. Yeah. Vince Vance and the Valiants. Vince Vance. And the Valiants. Vince Vance, that's great. A crazy name. That's very weird. Jesus Christ. Keith Burns. Okay. The Tip Tops, which sounds like a Motown group they're bringing back, a bunch of 80-year-old men. What's the guy from PBS? Ken Burns. Ken Burns. Yeah, and he's got a brother named Rick that also made stuff, but neither of them are Keith. No Keith. This is their other brother, not quite as successful. My favorite here, at the Edgewater Mall at 11 a.m., the coveted 11 a.m. slot at the mall, Gary, quote, Elvis Wesley will be playing. That's what it says, Gary, quote, Elvis Wesley. That's my nickname. Why, Gary? Yeah, I don't get it. Hip Pocket and then Na Na Sha instead of Sha Na Na. They just reversed it. It's Na Na Sha. Oh, boy. Do they have enough songs that you would care to see a cover band of them? A cover band? I mean, they must. They play their own shows for years, so they must have enough songs. We'd have to learn all the ones that weren't on the radio. Na Na Sha. Na Na Sha. Eclectic with a K where you wouldn't expect it every time. Wherever there's a K sound, it's a K in there. We have Cool Rays with a Z. Cool Rays. So five guys named Ray, probably. They're just playing Ray Charles songs. Another coveted 11 a.m. spot, Brandy. Not that Brandy. You can't do that. There's already a fucking Brandy. No, I won't accept it. She doesn't even play anymore. No. Six-piece suits will be there. Six-piece. Three isn't enough. It's not enough. It's only a three-piece suit? How many pieces are you putting on that thing? A lot more. Three more. Double. We're twice as good as regular suits. Modern El Dorados. Black Velvet. Trigger-proof. And then there is, what the hell is this? Rumble on the Gulf. I don't know what that is. I don't know if it's a fight or something. Motorcycles. Oh, yeah, there you go. Rumble. There you go. I'm thinking Royal Rumble. I got my head stuck in wrestling. That's a crime rate in this town, what we're interested in. Property crime, not surprisingly high because it's a tourist town. So every tourist town, it's high because they piss in the streets and do dumb shit. Yeah, because we're on vacation. Yep. What's a broken record? It's a broken window between pals. It's double the average. Plus, I'm not going to be here to go to court, so fuck it. Once I go home, I'm off. I'm not going to be here until the cops get caught. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is actually about 20% beneath the national average. So it's actually lower than the national average here, but the property crime, high. That said, let's talk about some murder. This is a wild-ass story, man. Okay. It's a wild town. Let's start out with. Let's start out with a man here. Let's talk about him. Richard Gerald Jordan. Yeah. Jordan like Michael. So Dickie Jordan over here. He's born May 25th, 1946. And he's born in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Yeah. He's adopted as a baby. So we've had a lot of adoption on our shows for some reason. I don't know why. Maybe there's just more adoption out there than we realize. Maybe that's what it is. I'll bet that's true. Probably just more people than we know. I mean, they don't advertise that stuff. They don't advertise that stuff because it's generally wanting to make you, when you see a family, just that's the family. It doesn't matter how it was formed. When you were a kid, like, you know, all the friends you had, how many friends were adopted? I didn't know. Really? You had three, four adopted friends? I can't think of one that was fucking adopted. I can't think of one that was like formally adopted. I know ones that were like, his aunt's watching him because his mother's a drug addict or whatever the fuck. But it wasn't like strangers formally adopted this person. Through the adoption agency. Yeah. That's because all my friends were trash and people that adopted them. Adopt people usually have money. There you go. That's why. I figured it out. Yeah. Yeah. I lived in an area of Phoenix where, like, Arcadia was just real close by. Yeah. But people didn't necessarily live there. So they had money, but they would, like, not go out into Arcadia. They would stick on the other side. Yeah. Where the white trash lived. Exactly. And they would send these fairly well-to-do adopted kids to school with us pieces of shit. Yeah. I think there was, I mean, I can certainly think of two off the top of my head, but I'm sure there was more. Yeah. I think where I grew up, they would have just looked at your application. What? You live in the village of Wappingers? You're not getting any kids. That place is a mess. You're not adopting children out there. You can't afford to take care of your own. Yeah. You're not. What are you, Deliverne Avenue? No, that's not working right now. I'm sorry. I won't allow that. I grew up in a really, like, borderline slum, but, like, two miles east of me. I know it's not a slum where you grew up. That's not a slum. Say again? On Shea? No, no, no. I didn't move there until way, way later. Oh. I was like, that's a nice slum. 30 Second Street and Indian School was scum. Yeah. But two miles east of there was fucking great. Oh, that's a rich area. Yeah. That's where it gets rich. That's where a fucking Wonder Woman lived. That's where, like, politicians lived and shit. Yeah. So he's adopted by Homer and Francis Jordan and took their name. He grew up in Petal, Mississippi, which is, we've done an episode in Petal, Mississippi as a matter of fact. With the T, not the D. That's right. And, uh, it is. It is, uh, which is across the river from Hattiesburg. And apparently all the way through school, he's got a good reputation. It's a good, good boy and a nice kid and he's fine. Um, his brother, Robert, who I don't know if he's adopted also, or if he's part of the Jordan family to begin with, but, uh, Robert said, you know, the two of them grew up together going to church and going to Sunday school. And, uh, they went to youth rallies all over the state with the church of God and they did summer camps and conventions and, uh, you know, they did a lot of things. Um, he and his brother, uh, Richard, you know, the guy we're talking about, they both sang in the choir. And, um, he said later on that his wife sang in the choir too, and that, uh, Richard Jordan was an usher even in church. So he was very immersed in the church as a child. Um, he's a smart guy. We don't know how smart he is, but he claims a specific level of IQ, uh, later on and through his life of, he says he has a one 45 IQ and he uses that. That's hard. Uh, what's the highest? It goes all the way up. I mean, oh, does it? Yeah. It goes a one 40 is like consider genius level. And okay. You know, above average is like one 10, one 10 to one, whatever. So yeah, we don't know if it's true either. I mean, right. Who knows? But that number says it's a good number for him. Uh, so when he graduates from high school, pretty much immediately he's charged with check forgery. So he does some dumb shit here. And, um, so he's looking at a forgery charge. Fresh out of pedal high. Yeah. Looking down the barrel of a forgery charge. Not good. Is that friends and family checks or do we know? We don't know who he took the checks from or what they're forged on, but he's, you know, 18 years old. It's 1964. Everyone in the court has a flat top. Things are not going to go well for you. So, and a check was not what they are today. No, no, no, no. Check was a lot easier to forge back then. You're going to do whatever you want. Hand it to some, there was no electronic. I didn't even have a bank. Name on it. It just said, I'll pay you whenever. And then you'd find out like two weeks later that they don't have any money. And then it's like, well, now we've got to start this whole process. Yeah. It was a real easy way to get shit if you had no money back then. So, uh, it's, we don't know who brought this up, but there's an offer made. We don't know if it's the judge at the DA and his lawyers work it out or whatever, but there's an offer made. And I think, you know what the offer is because it's 1964. Military, right? It is join the army and the charges. Are dropped. They used to do that all about this little, all the time. That was a huge thing they did all the time. So he joined fucking a, he's got nothing to do anyway to finish. Well, he's got nothing better to do anyway. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. And he doesn't realize that Vietnam is going to be a huge deal. This is when it doesn't know that's coming at all. It's there's people over there, but it's not a major war yet. It's just, it's just kind of there. We were sent advisors over and there was little things popping up, but it wasn't like a, there was no draft. Or anything yet. So 1964, he enlists in the army where he'll spend five years in the army. Wow. Absolutely. He served in the first cavalry division. He earned multiple citations. He served three back-to-back tours in Vietnam. That is made it out of there every time. Yeah. I won't tell you what he was doing too. Well, the military estimates put his combat service at 33 months in combat, actually on the ground. That's a lot. That's almost three years of combat. That's a long time. That is a lot. He's a helicopter gunner. Oh, wow. He is one. If you've seen any Vietnam movie, the craziest guy who's hanging off the helicopter with an M 60 shooting people going, come on. Yeah. I get some, I like shooting ladies in a field. That's the guy. Wow. That's the, that's this guy. Just hang out of the helicopter, shoot anything that moves as you go. And those Hueys, those things got shot down, right? Oh yeah. They're firing up at them. Absolutely. They got shot down. Yeah. Um, I mean, you're also shooting like farmers and shit. So I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, it's what you were told to do. I don't know about, you know what I mean? It's also an easy shot. That's the thing. Yeah. I mean, you're up high enough. Guns can't get you anywhere. No, no, no. But yeah, they were definitely take shooting rockets at them and taking down helicopters and stuff. So it's a dangerous job, I guess. I don't know. I mean, probably not as dangerous as being in the jungle. I bet. Yeah. Yeah. I'd rather be above shooting than down in the shit, you know, and there's a reason Sarah does. - It does that to shoot wolves. - Yeah, it's probably easier, yeah. so from 66 to 68 he's got an m60 and shooting shooting shit as it goes down yeah um since they go about a thousand feet in the air and shoot so bullets can blow it up come back at you too from there um so at one point we don't know exactly what happened here but his aircraft his helicopter was in an area here um where a u.s helicopter had been shot down yeah so they believed the the people who got shot down said we believe the fire came from this hut down there there's a hut so his team jordan's team went up and basically the hut jordan just filled the hole filled the hut full of holes basically just completely decimated this hut and then they went to see if they got everybody and of course it's just women and children inside no weapons no anything just women and children that he just nothing fired out of that hut ever no no no or they didn't switch it who knows but at this point you've killed shit loads of kids and children that's what you do so um yeah that's what he said he was he says he was severely traumatized by this and he'll say he never got the support that the military uh they never gave him any support for that no therapy or no anything like that no doctors for this you gotta be a special kind of fucked up to be able to just write that off in your brain well that's why we had a lot of people they they'd come back they'd get no help for it and then they'd end up being fucking junkies and being homeless because their brains were fucked up and we weren't doing anything to help them that's what happened i mean most of the homeless surge of the 70s that came from vietnam i mean that was a lot of vietnam vets that were all fucked up in the head and on you gotta assume that any war that we've ever been in there's been some sort of miscommunication somewhere that we probably did that because that's oh i mean war is disgusting but oh yeah you gotta be able to have absolutely unbelievable communication yeah because that's unacceptable that's just yeah the only difference was in vietnam the military just went oh well they didn't even care that was the thing yeah so um anyway he said he was traumatized and we don't this is all on what he said happened so we don't know we don't know if that even happened we don't know an official record of this or anything don't know what date it happened but we do know what date this happened or what year anyway and we In 1970, the army court-martials him. Oh, what'd he do? So that's not good for falsifying official documents. He likes to forge things. Why does he like to do that? Yeah, he likes to forge things. Well, you can do it really. Everything's made of paper back then, so you can really forge just about everything. Terms and conditions didn't even have a picture, right? No, fuck no. It wasn't laminated. It was a piece of cardboard. It was like your fucking Social Security card. Yeah, that's it. He just handed it. That was what they had back then. There's no scanning. There's no anything. You could just print anything out. So he ends up, and I don't know if this was for leave or for whatever he was trying to do, but he ends up getting nine months in the disciplinary barracks at Fort Leavenworth. So that's not good. He gets nine months in Leavenworth, which is probably more than he would have gotten if he would have just taken his shit on the forge check to begin with. You're probably right. He wouldn't have had to be in war for years and then do nine months. He could have been done with this shit. Of course, he probably would have got drafted anyway. Certainly wouldn't have had to shoot that hut. No. He probably would have got drafted anyway, though, at that point. So who knows? He ends up getting, and this is, there's some, again, some back and forth on whether he got an honorable discharge or a dishonorable discharge. Okay. We're not sure. Either way, in 71, he's out of the Army. All right. Now, in the 1970s here, so it's 71, he comes home. He ends up, in the next few years, I don't know if he had a woman at home on his breaks from war. He came home and knocked her up or what, or if he had them all pretty quick. But from 71 on, he has about three kids in the next five years. Wow. So he's got a wife and three kids, and they live in Hattiesburg. Okay. He works in Louisiana while the wife keeps the kids in Hattiesburg. So I don't know how that works exactly. But he's one of these guys that does kind of transient jobs that, you know, guys will go from oil rig to here to different places. Sure, welders or pipe fetters. Whatever pays well. You know, they're going. He spent a year as the plant manager at a Swift Farm Service Center, which is a fertilizer plant. Oh, God. Imagine working in a year in a fertilizer plant. That's rough. At least you're managing it and you can get away from it, right? You've got to be able to get away from that smell. You probably have less shit on your hands than everybody else. It's probably like Monty Python. How do you tell who's the manager? He's the one who hasn't got shit all over him, and that's how you know who the manager is. Replace shit with a clipboard, and that's him. Yeah, it's so hard to get away from that smell because there's, I mean, there's that chicken farm way the fuck out west. It'll get in your clothes. And when you're driving down the 10 coming from LA or San Diego, you can smell it. It's five miles before you get there. If you're managing, you're going to manage from five miles away. Even just fertilizer that's out if you live near farmland. I had a friend who lived in southwest or south, yeah, west Phoenix there. And he bought this brand new house and all this shit, and he could never open his windows no matter how nice it was out because it would just overload. His furniture would stink like shit for days. It was horrible. Nothing he could do. And even if you can stand that, if you put a piece of chicken on the counter. Yeah. Yeah. If you put a piece of chicken on the counter, it will be covered in flies. It's disgusting. Even if you can stand that. Even if you have no sense of smell. Even if there's something wrong with you. Oh, man. He's also going to spend two or three months at a shipyard in Morgan City. But the fertilizer plant here, how he lost his fertilizer plant job is, there's differences of opinion. There's some bullshit. One point he said he left. He just left. He was done. But another time when he's talking to a psychiatrist, he said that he acknowledged that he got fired for doing dumb shit. And they said, what about that? And he said, well, I've always been a good con man. What do you lie about? Always been a good con man. He's always been the good Eddie Haskell, basically. Oh, yeah, no, he just came from church. And then he's forging shit and doing things because, you know, the check, that's not the first thing he ever forged that he got caught for, probably. You know, so first, you know, he said, you know, he did a number of illegal activities and had not been caught only once or twice. But he was, I guess, told to resign or before he was fired from the fertilizer plant because of what he called embezzlement. Theft. Theft. I like how he made it sound like he ran like a Fortune 500 company. Like they asked me to resign. You manage a shit plant. If you get caught stealing, they say, get the fuck out. And they have security. Walk you out. They don't ask you to resign. They don't even let you stop at your locker to get your shit. You're just out. No, we'll fill a box for you later. Yeah, you're going to be walking out with that picture of your wife and like the little plant coming out and like a pencil sharpener. And that's what you're going to be doing. I left my last job on good terms. They still sent somebody to my house with a box of my shit. Yeah, there you go. If you call not showing up for five years good terms, I suppose. Good terms. They are glutton for punishment. That company, huh? If I paid someone for five years who never showed up and just made a podcast instead, I would fucking hire a person to break their fucking legs. You understand? Good terms. I sent a letter of resignation. I got a phone call the next day saying we've accepted your resignation. No problem. We forgot you worked here. As a matter of fact, thanks for reminding us. I can't believe you. You guys didn't just fix the fridge. That's so funny. So what he stole, you know, embezzlement in the early 70s in a Mississippi fertilizer company. What are you thinking here? Are you stealing bags of cow shit? No, no. This is actual money he stole. How much money can you steal? Oh, Jim. But in the plant, there can't be that much there. I mean, and the fact that you can't just steal everything they have. You're not going to last a year. So what do you think? You know, if you were to guess eight, eight, nine hundred dollars, forty three thousand dollars. How is there that much money in shit? By the way, you know what that is in twenty twenty six dollars? Oh, my God. That's sixty six thousand nine hundred thirteen dollars and thirty one cents. He stole a quarter of a million dollars worth of shit from a fertilizer plant in Mississippi. Holy fuck. Yeah. Forty three grand in the year in like seventy three. That was like the average salary was like sixty eight hundred dollars or something. Yeah, that was the average household or, you know, salary in the seventies. You could buy two houses with that, right? Fuck. Yeah. Oh, right. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I only know that from, uh, uh, all in the family, somebody offered Archie Bunker thirty thousand for his house and he was like, we gotta sell it because it's only worth like fourteen and that was the early seventies. Um, so I guess he was under financial pressure and he was writing bad checks and so he was looking for a way to get some money to cover the bad checks. He was. Yeah. He was writing and try to, so he's just skimming Rob Peter to pay Paul pretty much. Yeah. Um, he considered bank robbery. and why would you with you when you got that scam going after he got fired because he was still in debt he was in all this debt still because he's a fuck-up and he loves being in debt and um he considered you know extortion what's a he want you know because like he wants to get the money but he's also a classy guy mind you so a lot of blackmail people forget yeah he's like i could just walk in rob a bank but that's so brute you know what i mean it's so it's it's gauche really is what it is but extortion has a certain je ne sais quoi that just lends itself to making me feel like a real international like a high society suit yeah yeah like a high society cat burglar or something you know what i mean i'm only here for the jewels in the arts owns a couple of ass scots yes yes drives an aston martin so that's what he was doing he's considering all this at this point he's unemployed he's in a shitload of debt it's the mid-70s he's pushing 30 years old he's got three kids a wife yeah fuck loads of debt bad checks floating all over the fucking southeast he's blacklisted in the bullshit operations you are never touching another pile of shit again on someone else's dime ever uh he's got a lot of problems he owed money on a car he owed money he owed department store credit cards he had out he got those absolutely he even had a boat that he owed money on he's living above his means the whole time that's a problem so he just writes checks to keep it floating and then he's gonna fix it deal if you're stealing embezzling from a company you know there's an end to that why do you live above above the means of theft it's casey anthony's hallway as well it is that's we're back to casey coming fast we came up with during the patreon this week we figured out a lie that there's an absolute end to that you can't overcome that's called casey anthony's hallway when there's a brick wall at the end yes if you follow more offices when casey anthony was at universal studios telling the police that she worked there and she said my hallway my office is down this hallway and as they got toward the end of the hallway finally she just stopped at the end of the hallway turned around and said okay i don't work here i lied because there's a once you run out of offices that aren't yours that's it the lie is over so any lie like that that has a finite end to it that's obvious that's casey anthony's hallway it's like schrodinger's cat it's there's a lot of it's casey anthony's hallway nose to nose with drywall that's what do you do then that's what i mean you're fucked at that you got to turn around and go i don't work here i guess so i can't imagine stealing knowing for sure that there's there's an end to that yes and then financing it's the gamblers it's a gambler addict mentality though it's the addict mentality it's a sickness it's the gambler mentality it's all of that in one he's got that by for sure so by age 30 here um you know he's an unemployed former fertilizer plant manager former shipyard worker three vietnam tour combat vet with some ptsd issues as he said um he's a self-described marksman as i would assume you would be if your only job was to shoot people for 33 months so then he decides he is fucked he's backed into a corner by january of 1976 he has run out every line he has basically and i don't work here he needs some money and he needs it now essentially and a lot of money to really put a lot of things right he owes a shitload of money he's gonna lose his boat his car and all this stuff so what he does is on january 10th 1976 he's in baton rouge louisiana you know and he walks into a pawn shop in baton rouge with a 16 gauge shotgun oh my not to rob the pawn shop to to sell it to pawn the 16 gauge shotgun you don't want to try to rob a pawn shop they have the most guns he has a lot behind the counter not only they have the most guns then they have like chainsaws and shit to take you apart with and like you have just done the shelf stock they could dismember you kill you and have you cleaned up and gone without any hesitation literally yeah that's how it's how uh uh marcellus wallace got saved in palpation exactly thank god it was a it was a pawn shop yeah you walk in pick your weapon yeah totally so he's gonna trade his 16 gauge shotgun um for a titan 38 caliber pistol and 75 dollars so he gets a pistol and 75 bucks for his shotgun that's a great trade not a bad trade um it's a weird trade the the person at the pawn shop says because most people don't trade like hunting weaponry for is a bird like a bird gun you don't trade a bird gun for a handgun those are totally different things it's just not normal but whatever shooting quail with that thing no you got to be a really good shot he's a marksman imagine trying to shoot quail with 38 pop shit again i mean like that would be so impossible not only did you miss but you just sent a round two miles away blindly hope nobody gets it over there oh you just sent a stray wildly out out of bounds miles into wherever so he tells his parents that he's going to the coast to take a physical for a job on an offshore oil rig okay so that buys him some time where no one's going to be looking for him for a couple days right and then he drives to gulfport mississippi all right all right he checks into the twin star motel sure it's nice not one star isn't enough the twin star i'll bet it's not two stars i bet it's not a two star that's their yelp review total is what it is the twin star we're embracing it yeah we're just gonna say fuck it like those restaurants that make t-shirts that say you know one star worst service ever or whatever the same shit that's what they're doing so he registers as jack wilson why would you do that i've never registered under a false name because i'm never up to something in a hotel maybe that's why yeah it could be up to something and nobody's ever looking for me either not usually no uh he pays cash also uh which is very common in the 70s that's yeah that would be way more of a red flag now of anybody paying cash at a hotel yeah like us when we went to austin and we were we had like singles and quarters and shit that one time 2017 it costs more to pay for a hotel than to pay for a hotel yeah it's a lot of money to pay for a hotel and more to pay cash you'll get it back in the morning but yes we were like it costs eighty dollars more i'm like oh that's all but that's all i have but that's all the money okay well that's our gas money back home so we better get it back or else we're living here forever essentially we live here if you don't give us that 80 back is what we told the guy my car will be out of gas and i got nothing here we're gonna live in this parking lot so he pays cash that's all i have but that's everything that's all we both had between us for christ's sake oh that was sad um so room 110 this is and he spends the next couple days driving around gulfport just taking it in taking in the sights the sounds and doing his thing he's not doing he's not like casing anybody not following anybody around he's just just looking around just seeing what comes to him naturally you know what i mean room 110 that's two doors down from where the players dwell james that's a good point oh god so uh monday january 12th 1976 yeah he's been driving around gulfport this is his like third day driving around gulfport maybe fourth day um you know he's got an alias and uh he sees the gulf national bank on highway 90 he's hmm okay it's like right by the beach this this bank it's like right across from the beach and stuff and uh he stops at a payphone and he's like at a convenience store right across the street from the bank and he calls gulf national bank and because he's a you know a real international mover and shaker here debonair very debonair he asks the person who answers um who can i speak with that handles commercial loans you know because he's starting a big business here right um and the bank tells them well our person who handles that's a guy named charles martyr he can help you with that charles martyr is m-a-t-e-r not no why so charles martyr can help you and they said we'll connect you with charles if you'd like you know we'll put you through to him and he hung up richard hangs up doesn't get put through to charles then he opens up the phone book the gulfport telephone directory that every payphone used to have a phone book um it's dangling there right by your knees and back then if you're if you're young you don't you're like first of all that's so weird that there was but yeah it was everyone's phone number everyone unless you were like hiding from like a stalker or like uh you know like the fbi was after you your name was in the phone book you had to pay extra fill out paperwork oh yeah pay for them to delete you yeah for it to be unlisted that was like a big deal for the phone company not to list you and whatever so it was a huge deal you could look anybody up and not only would they they'd have their name their phone number and their street address yeah let's go right to their house so literally literally people used to say look me up yeah they literally would look me up look me up i'm in the book everybody would say that yeah imagine if you said that to someone hey what are you doing no i'll be in town this day cool look me up and then they walked away you'd be like well i'll never see that person again how the fuck do you look them up me up look me up where in what what are you talking about did he just say google me yeah facebook like instagram tiktok what are you talking about where how where are we here um they don't have your address on there so bizarre but that's what it was everything um and in the phone book there is exactly one m-a-r-t-e-r one charles martyr so he said probably the guy i'm gonna be him gotta be him so who is he he's charles wesley martyr uh here he is born 1936 here um he's from baton rouge louisiana originally he graduated from lsu with a bs degree in finance and he also went to the lsu school of banking of the south as well later on what is that i don't know school of banking he's he wants he's did finance his whole route is he wants to be a banking executive put money in take money out there's a school for that there's a school well i guess how do you how you approve loans how you do how you run the business because the bank is all investing your interest and you know investing the money they have and that's a there's a whole lot going on behind the scenes the tell part is nothing that's one percent of a bank they don't care that's just to make you feel like you're like actually have a human makes you feel like your money's safe it's fucking not there and as soon as it goes it's like it's in the market so it's like one of those old movies when they show a pneumatic tube and a thing and it's going all over like the hud sucker proxy or something it's like one of those fucking things where it's all tubes and shit you have no idea where your money went it gets downtown digital shit in a minute yep so in 1962 i was in a bank and i was like He married a woman he met at LSU that was also going to college, a woman named Edwina Rose DeGruy. DeGruy? DeGruy. Well, she'll be martyr here because they're getting married, but it's D-E space G-R-U-Y. That's her. Very Louisiana. Fucking A. Very got some French behind it there. Southern Creole French shit. Yeah, totally. Well, that's another reason for the Catholicism is the French were Catholic, so there you go. I almost asked her, French Catholic. That makes a lot of sense. So she's born June 20th, 1940. Like I said, about four years younger, so he was probably a senior when she was a freshman. Yeah. He's scoping for the new chicks, and she meets Charles. She was born in New Orleans. She is the daughter of, wow, Edwin Joseph Dufouchard DeGruy. That's her father. Dufouchard? Dufouchard. Yeah. Yeah. D-U-F-O-U-C-H-A-R, DeGruy. Yeah. DeGruy. And his mother, her mother is Emily, good luck spelling it. That's the only four. It ain't the Emily you're thinking about. No? I-E? Yeah. E-M-E-L-I-E. E-M-E-L-I-E. Emily. Wow. Emily Carrie Melanson DeGruy. And she went by Tootsie. Tootsie. Why not? Because she had a penis, I guess. I have no idea why. She loved Dustin Hoffman. I don't know. She goes by Tootsie, because that's easier than all of that. So Tootsie and Edwin, and the daughter is Edwina. Yeah. This poor kid, he said, we're naming our kid Edwin. I don't give a shit what comes out of your crotch. It's called Edwin. Yeah. Yeah. We'll stick a vowel on it if we have to. Right. So she grew up in Bonnebelle. On Bonnebelle Boulevard in Metairie. Is that how you say that? Metairie? I don't know. M-E-T-A-I-R-I-E. We've had that one before. Oh, it's French as fuck, right? I think they just say it as Metairie, if I'm not mistaken. That's possible. But I could be wrong. She has two sisters and a brother. She went to St. Catherine of Siena Grammar School. Went to Metairie High. Then went to East Jefferson High, where she got her diploma. And, yeah. She. I guess her aunt said that when. This is Edwina's sister. The kids later on. Her kid's aunt. They were talking. And she told the kids that they'd. When they were younger, like pre-Edwina getting married. The two sisters would like to dress up in their nicest clothes. Put really good makeup on and everything. Look really presentable. And go crash wedding receptions that they did. Because if you have two, like, attractive, super well-dressed. For a wedding young lady there. No one's going to ask them for an invitation. They're just going to, you know, feed them whatever the fuck. Chicken or fish. And then that's it. Go dance and drink and have fun. That's what they do. That's amazing. They did the wedding crashers thing long before the movie. In the late 50s and early 60s, they were doing it. And, yeah, their sister said she liked to have fun. She liked to do stuff like that. Wasn't that H.I.'s wife's name in Raising Arizona? She went by Ed. Yeah, it was. Was it Edwina? I don't know if it was Edwina. It had to be Edwina. It might have been. Why do I say it like that? Edwina? Edwina. Edwina. Edwina. Had to be Edwina, right? Maybe. I can't fucking remember now. No, I don't know if they ever said it in there. I haven't seen it in a few years. It had. I think they showed the. I can't re-watch that. I should watch it every year. Because he said. Oh, okay. Because he called her Ed. Yeah. And. Ed and hi. Yeah, I can't remember what. I think it's Edwina. I really do. So, like I said, that should be a once a year movie that I watch. It's so good. It's been four or five years. I got to get back on it. I love when she's crying and he's like, who did it? I'll spit that son of a bitch. The whole thing is fucking hilarious. My name's not H. I'm Madonna. Great fucking movie. So, I saw that in the theater. Stop it. In the movie theater with racist Nan. When you were a child? Racist Nan. And first of all. Nan. Nan. Nan. Nan. Nan. She was not a big movie aficionado. We went to like. I can think of two movies that she took me to as a child. One was Look Who's Talking, which was very uncomfortable for a child to watch. The opening scene of sperm flying through everywhere. That was gross. And Raising Arizona, which I was like eight, nine years old. I don't know what. I think because the trailer makes it look like a. A fun movie. A goofy movie. Son, you got a panty on your head. It's that shit. And so she thought. But she liked it actually, which is interesting. And I got. It got me into weird movies. This is dark. Yeah. It got me into the Cullen brothers. It's like a nine year old. I was like, this is fucking cool. This is such a different movie. Yeah. And it was funny. So. They used a real truck. That shortstop. Those were all over. Yeah. At the time. Yeah. And I mean, nobody even. I'm sure nobody thought about it. But as soon as I saw it on TV, I was like, hey, I go there. That's so familiar to my life. I know that. So 1965. They have a son. Mm hmm. Eric Cheryl. Eric Charles Martyr. Now, Chuck here. He is quickly gaining some prominence in the world of banking. He was a I guess he worked as the national as a national bank examiner for the Department of the U.S. Treasury at one point. Sounds impressive. And then got another job. They lived in Metairie for a while. Then Chuck gets a job at the Gulfport National Bank there on the Interstate 90. What's Edwina do? She's from money, though. Yeah, they sound wealthy. Don't know how much they're from money or not. But I mean, enough, at least middle class enough to be able to send your kids to college. Dad's got four fucking names. Dad's got four. And three of them are very French. So that's a lot. You got to. So I feel like they're at least upper middle class or at least solidly middle class. They're doing enough to they go on vacation once a year and they, you know, they don't worry about the mortgage. They send their kids to college at least. So so they're moving. Chuck gets a job. Charles goes by Chuck, by the way. Everyone calls him Chuck Martyr. This is at the on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. They moved to Gulfport in around 70, late 70, early 71. They buy a house on the Southern Circle. And Edwina takes care of the young child. That's she's a housewife at the time, which was he works at a bank. If it was 1970 and you were a big, successful banker and your wife had a job, people would be like, fuck you doing. Right. You can't support. Your wife at a bank. What are you, a compulsive gambler or something? They think you were a loser. That's just how society was. That's impressive. Yeah. Now, she's a stay at home mom, takes care of the kid soon to be kids as they're going to have another kid here in 73 and spends time. She likes hanging out with her friends and, you know, all that kind of thing. She likes to, according to her kids, she likes to play cards and watch TV with the kids. I was just going to say this bitch plays bridge. Oh, absolutely. Everybody played cards back then. Isn't that wild? Because they came. You come from a time that's before television. That's what else are you going to do? Yeah. People play cards to pass the time. They hung out. They play cards. That's it. Yeah. Play cards. My grandparents were all card fanatics. All of them. They all played constantly played cards with my grandmother. That's all. We don't even know the rules to gin or bridge or any of those card games. I just know that watching it is so impressive to see adults. Oh, they're into it. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't impressive to see my Italian grandma play with all. They just speak Italian. Yeah. And yell at each other the whole time and accuse each other of cheating and fucking scream and yell. It was hilarious. Hilarious. As kids. Kids used to watch them and go, God, they're going to kill each other in there. Amazing. So Edwina, she's doing all that. She takes the kids to the beach all the time. She drives a convertible Volkswagen Beetle in 72, 73 around the shore there. So fun. They're living a good life, basically. She's also big into volunteer work, and she's a member of the St. James Catholic Church. She's in the auxiliary of the Memorial Hospital at Gulfport. She founded the St. James Booster Club. She was a secretary of the St. James PTA. This is the school that her kids go to, her kid at this point. She's even active in scouting, boy scouting, where she's a den mother for Troop 204. How about that? She is the quintessential fucking June Cleaver of the time, basically. Very busy. Taking care of the house and kids, and I'm sure she was freshly dressed and lip-sticked at all times. She's that kind of lady. In that box car, derby car. Yeah, yeah. Soapbox derby. Soapbox, that's it. Yeah. Well, Chuck only has time on the weekends. He's very busy, but every night he gets home, you got to go in the garage and help little Eric with the soapbox derby car. Oh, Christ, okay. So 1973, they have another son named Kevin Paul Marder. So they have Eric as the older. Kevin is the younger. Chuck gets a promotion at work, which is big time. Yeah. Big time. This is the bank, like we said, right on US 90, the beach highway, right on the water. You can see it from your office if he's got a cool office. He's got an ocean view. I found the actual newspaper announcement of his promotion, which is hilarious. They put it in the paper. They say, Charles W. Chuck Martin, or Marder, has been promoted to senior vice president. He's responsible for the overall loan portfolio. That's a lot. Wow. That's a whole lot. He's been promoted to that. The overall loan portfolio for the entire bank. Yeah. He's the guy that's going to oversee everything. That's a big job. A vice president, too. That's a big shit. So he's heavily on the commercial loan side of things, too, because that's where they make most of their money. Commercial loans are way bigger than your home loan. Millions rather than a $170,000 house. And back then. A mortgage was $8,000 or we're going to finance $12,000 or something, whereas these commercial loans could be millions, millions of dollars. That's where the money is. He also stays busy. He doesn't just work. He's a member of the Kiwanis Club of Gulfport and served on the board of directors for them. Also a member of the Gridiron Club, which was something to do with football, I believe. Some sort of football thing. Broadwater Country Club. These are countries. Country club people, even. Holy shit. She takes her convertible Beetle to the country club to play tennis because she also likes tennis. In the 70s. Early 70s. That old money. God damn. Just success money. He's very successful. The Gulfport Yacht Club he's a member of. You got to have a yacht to be in that club, right? I'm not sure, but either way, they go to fancy parties is what that tells me. Between the yacht club and the country club, they're always. Suited up with fancy drinks in their hand, is what that sounds like to me, and also a member of the Home Builders Association, I guess, because he does a lot of loans because they don't build shit. So he is also, as kids say, a very strict father, too. Just very strict. Not doesn't beat them or anything, but very strict. You do the right thing. You do that. This is very, like, typical. You do what I say. Middle America family. Right. Dad, you know, brings home the money. And gets a membership to the yacht club, and mom drives around in the Beetle and plays tennis and helps the kids with their homework and all that. Now, that's Chuck. That's the guy that he's looked up in the phone book, Richard Jordan, while he was on his little joint. So, back to Richard Jordan. He hangs up on Chuck, looks up his address, and he drives by the house. Drives by the martyr house on Southern Circle around noon that day. Now, there's several cars in the driveway. It looks to me, from the picture I've seen, it's like a circular driveway, like a half circle that goes in. So, there's a bunch of cars, and there's a few here. They say there's several cars, including a Mercedes and a sports car. Oh, a different car. It's not a Mercedes sports car. No, a Mercedes and a sports car going on. So, he sees all these cars, and he assumes. He assumes that Chuck probably came home for lunch today. So, he keeps driving. Richard Jordan does. He comes back about 2 p.m. when he figures the lunch rush will be over at the house. And by then, all the cars except one are gone. What's it? I think it's the Beetle, I believe. Or it's the, she might have got a Mercedes by then, I'm not sure. But it's one car in the driveway. So, he picked up the phone. He's got the number still. He goes to a pay phone. After he sees only one car. Dials the martyr house, because it's in the phone book. And a woman's voice answers, presumably Edwina. He hangs up immediately. Okay. Then, he goes back to the motel room. He puts on a suit. Suit, pants, tie, sport coat. A six-piece? Six-piece suit he puts on. He carries a manila suit. A manila folder. And has a clipboard. Okay. And leaves his motel room. Full suit and tie, manila folder, clipboard. Yeah. Also, another thing he has is in his pants. This sounds not what you think is in his pants. I know what's in there, but also. Yeah. He cut out the lining of a pocket and strapped the.38 revolver inside it so he could get to it without a holster. So, it's strapped to his leg with no pocket so he can reach in his pocket, grab it out of the holster. And pull it out of his pocket. That's actually genius. It's pretty diabolical. In all the episodes we've done, we've never heard of anyone doing that. People have put guns in their pockets. Nobody's cut the liner out so they can grab it. This is episode 721. We've never had somebody figure that out. Maybe he does have a high IQ. We'll never know. So, he does that so he can get to this.38. And this won't show a bulge, too, because it's like in his pants on the side. So, you won't see a big bulge in his suit jacket or anything like that. Won't draw any attention. He goes back to the martyr house. Clipboard, folder, six-piece suit. Sand's pocket. Yeah, got his gun pocket working. And he walks up. He rings the bell. Edwina answers the door. Because back then, you just answered the door when someone knocked at it. You know, whatever. He tells her that, I'm with the electric company. Okay. And I've gotten reports of defects. And I've gotten reports of defective circuit breakers in the area. I'm investigating this. So, we don't know if he said electric company or General Electric, one of the two. He had a specific electric company. Either way, she said, well, come on right in. I'll show you where it is. Absolutely. He's got a tie and a clipboard. I mean, he's an important man. Can't get in his way. He's jotting down information as he receives it. Yeah, he's talking about wiring problems. We don't want the house to burn down. So, once he's. He's in the house and the door is closed. He pulls the 38 out of his pocket. Yeah. Okay. Now, where are the kids right now? That's a good question. She's got two. Kevin and Eric. Yes. Eric is the 10-year-old. He is at school. It's so funny that there's a lot of different accounts of where he was. One says he was at school. Others say he was at catechism class. He is at school, which is a Catholic high school. Our Catholic school, elementary school. So, he's kind of at both. They're kind of both right. But it got confused over the years, so people didn't know. But it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a Monday in January. He's at school. He's almost done. Yeah, he's at regular school. Whatever's going to happen better happen fast because. Yeah, he's going to be home soon. 3 o'clock. He's going to be on a ride or. Yeah. Now, the 3-year-old is asleep upstairs in the house. So, it's just her and the 3-year-old in the house here. Kevin. Okay. Basically, Edwina. He tells her, look, I'm kidnapping you. That's what's going down here. Like, I'm kidnapping you. I'm going to hold you for ransom. And I'm going to get a bunch of money out of this whole thing. She tells him, which I don't know if anyone ever thought of this when someone's trying to kidnap them. She said. I can't right now. I can't go. I can't. I mean, I'd love to and everything, you know. Here's the thing. I got. Today doesn't work. I got appointments. Like, really, if you come back tomorrow, maybe I can work something out. But right now, I am not available to be kidnapped. I'm sorry. Can't do it. Can't do it. She said, my 3-year-old's asleep here. What am I supposed to do? Leave a 3-year-old? I can't go. This is crazy. You can't just take me. This is very inconvenient, is my point. He grabbed her, put the gun up to her head, and said, we're leaving. And walked her out the front door. Oh, boy. That's why you bring a gun, I assume, to this type of thing. He gets her out of the house and into the car. Then, he realizes that, fuck, I left my folder inside. Oh, no. My prop. That's not going to work. It's got fingerprints. It's got a lot on it. Shit. Fuck. And he said, God damn it. I left that on the kitchen table. Shit. So he went back inside for it. Okay. He went up, by the way, checked the kid who was sleeping, looked at the kid. Kid is sleeping. And picked up the folder and left again. Because he walked her in with it and then walked back out again. And then they leave again with the folder. He makes her drive. Okay. Okay. Now, that afternoon, about 3.40 p.m. So about an hour 40 after he originally gets over there here. This is when Judy Tyler Frears, a former Gulf Point National Bank employee, who was an employee at that time, said that at 3.40 p.m., Chuck Marder at work receives a call from Jack Wilson. And we know who Jack Wilson is. That is the alias that he used, that Richard Jordan used at the hotel. During that call, she calls. She called the FBI during that call. She said, I saw Mr. Marder talk with the FBI. And I saw Mr. Marder being presented with money rolled up in plain brown paper sack. He was very upset. He was shaking. There was tears in his eyes. It's a rant. He called for a ransom. This whole thing is about ransom. So he called. When he called, Chuck called the FBI and stuff about the ransom. But he also called the house to see if the guy was lying. Because anybody could just call and go, I have your wife send me money. And she's home cooking dinner. Instead, yeah, she's watching the fucking match game. She's going to pick up a kid from the catacombs. Yeah. She's really perfecting her backhand down at the Yacht Club tennis court. She's got the top down in the Beetle with that 1600 humming. Just humming, babe. So apparently he called home right away. And the three-year-old answered the phone. Oh. What? Three-year-old answered the phone. Who knows how? That's impressive. And the 10-year-old was still at school waiting to be picked up by mom, who obviously isn't coming. So he's like, okay, my kids are safe anyway. Because that was one of the things. Did he kidnap the kids too? Because Jack Wilson didn't say. So anyway, this call that he makes for ransom is very businesslike. Hello, Mr. Martyr. Yes, I have your wife. And I am holding her for ransom. This is Jack. We have your wife. Is what they said. What Jack said. We have your wife. Holding her for ransom. You know, this is the way it is. No reason to freak out. It's happened. And you're going to have to come up with some money. And you'll get your wife back. It'll be no problem. She's not being hurt. She's not being tortured or beaten or anything like that. I just want money. That's it. And they said, well, how much money do you want? $50,000. Which is like almost $300,000 nowadays. It's a shitload of money. It's certainly a lot of money. It's not forever money. No, but in the 50s, it's also you have to think what he could he reasonably acquire. Yeah. Like how much cash can a person get in the 70s who's not like a multi-multi-millionaire? Frank Sinatra could probably go pick up a suitcase full of cash. But I don't know if this guy can. He's the vice president of a bank. I mean, that's where the money is. But still. But in 1970, getting this kind of money, by 1975, you're going to need to get this money again. Yeah, this is 76 here. Okay. So, I mean, it's not a lot. By 80. Yeah. This is 76. But it's still, like I said, you can't ask for more than you think that they could reasonably get. I think is what it is. So, they don't know how much money this guy has. He's at $50,000. I'll try that. You know? And fair enough. But it's just such a silly play because it's so dangerous in terms of freedom, life, all kinds of different things. Oh, it's insanity to do this. This is so stupid. This is crazy. He tells Chuck. She'll be released within 48 hours. She's okay. I promise you. Very matter-of-fact. And he says, you get the $50,000. You leave the money on Highway 49. There's going to be a blue jacket by the side of the road. Wrap the cash in brown paper and put it on the jacket that I leave there. Okay. Now, the FBI was contacted, by the way, by local police. And by Chuck for two different reasons. Number one, when his kids are at home. So, he sends the FBI to the house and the police. And he goes back to the house. But before they even got there, a friend of Edwina's had stopped by, found Edwina missing and the three-year-old in the house alone, and called the cops also. Okay. So, they've gotten a bunch of calls. She just shown up on a Monday afternoon. And, you know, the car's there, the door's unlocked. And a three-year-old. Three-year-olds inside. No Edwina. Just taking phone calls. So, Chuck gets the money. Obviously, the FBI is going to provide this money or the bank or somebody. There's plenty of cash around. So, the money will show up. It's going to show up. So, nightfall comes and, which is, you know, pretty early in the day in January. Yeah. Chuck drives out to Highway 49 with the money. There's no jacket. He does not see a blue jacket. Like, he was instructed. So, he drives up and down the highway in the dark looking for this jacket, but it's not there. And so, he's freaking out. He's got the, you know, all the money sitting next to him on the seat. And now, Richard Jordan was sitting watching him drive from the woods. Okay. He's in the DeSoto National Forest watching him drive back and forth in the woods. Okay. And he knows that he didn't leave a jacket. He knows he didn't leave a jacket, but this is unbelievable. On purpose. What he's doing is he sees two vehicles also making turns back and forth with Chuck's vehicle. So, this is just a setup test run. This is not actually to do the exchange right now. He just wants to see if he's got the FBI with him. And he does, obviously. So, he said he knew it was a setup, never put the jacket out, and waited to see that. So, just a test. Testing all this type of thing. Now, Chuck said that he drove around. He had the money. And he said, I did not make contact. I didn't make contact with him, though, on the road. He said he returned to his home where the FBI agents were there. And he received, at that point, another call from Jack Wilson at home. What Jack's about to say. Saw what you did. Yeah. He said, okay, drive back up 49 like you did before. Except, you know, he said, what I'll do is I will signal you with my car. I'll blink it three times. I'll do all of that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, that's what he told him the first time. Leave your friends at home this time. No, that's what he told him the first time was he'd blink his lights three times and then look for a jacket, which he didn't. But he tells him to go up, drive again, and blink the lights three times or whatever. Now, the next morning, January 13th, 76, he calls again Richard Jordan. Okay. Now, he's accusing Charles of fucking with him. He said, you tried to pull a fast one on me last night, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. This is like old movie. This is like old movie dialogue. I did you pull a fast one on me, didn't you? It's very probably wool over my eyes. I tried to pull the wool over my eyes and fool me. So during this conversation, the FBI is there coaching Chuck and they're telling him, get tough with him. Fucking stick it and push back. Tell him to go fuck himself. Hey, your wife isn't being held hostage here. You fucking tell him to go fuck himself when your wife is a great tell me to do it. Jesus Christ. Play with your wife's life in his hands. Hey, I think he's a pussy. Call him a pussy. See what he does. See if he kills her. Tell him his mom's a fat twat. Do it. See if he kills her. I bet he won't. Okay. Let's do this like impractical joke. Yeah. What do you think is going to happen? Try to say vis-a-vis in the sentence. Yeah. Try to do it. So what he does, Chuck decides to heatedly demand to speak to his wife. Well, let me talk to her then. Let me know she's okay. Let me know whatever. So Richard Jordan said, I don't know. If you want to talk. If you want to talk to her and I think you're fucking with me, I guess we're at an impasse. That's what he says. He actually said, I guess we're at an impasse. Okay. He tried to French up impasse because it's got an E on the end. So he was like, we're at an impasse. It's like when Kemper calls a coupe a coupe. A coupe, yeah. Exactly. No, the 70s and 80s were really into like French stuff is fancy, period. So people thought they were like European and shit. It's funny. So weird. So French food was a big, it was a big deal. Frank, I'm, we're going out to a fancy, fancy French restaurant. Ooh. For breakfast. We're having croissants. Croissants. Not croissants. Croissants. So we're at an impasse. So Chuck, then he says, I want to speak to my wife. And Jordan says, Richard Jordan says, she's fine. She's so funny. She's fine. By the way, she wants me to ask you something. She wants me to ask you how the children are. So now he's delivering messages from Edwina to Chuck saying he wants to know about the children. He tells them that she really wants to know, to make sure the boys are okay. Cause she left the three-year-old there by himself and the 10-year-old at school. Chuck says, tell Edwina that the kids are fine. I'm taking care of them. They're fine. They're, they're not hurt. Everything's fine. They don't even know what's going on right now. So at one point. He continues to insist after Richard Jordan continues to insist. she's fine and he says well just let me talk to her then finally chuck loses it and says quote i'm not giving you shit if i don't talk to my wife which is i don't think he uses says shit like that very often but that's the exact quote from the tape i'm not giving you shit if i don't talk to my wife i'm not making the drop until you let me talk to my wife okay so now i'm taking the ball back in my court you might have my wife but you want money and that's the whole reason you've done all this and it's going to be a waste of time if i don't give it to you so yeah regardless of what you have of mine i have something you want motherfucker so the whole yeah yeah the whole reason the whole just yeah you're not gonna just make the calls here the whole point of monkey dues the whole reason the whole reason for monkey dues that's your stupid opinions reference that you should really figure out it's hilarious it's absolutely it's so funny amazing so martyr here remember repeatedly calls him a son of a bitch as well you son of a bitch i'm not giving you shit now he's pissed oh yeah asshole like he's just pissed he doesn't care anymore um he says i want to talk to my wife i want to talk to my wife and they're talking about money and chuck says i don't give a damn about money i just want my wife so this is crazy it's at this point this is a great negotiating tactic at this point at this point jordan says okay i get it tell you what 25 grand i know you want to talk to your wife i'll go halfsies on this with you but how about less money and you don't talk to your wife how's that sound is that good is that is that okay with you he really did that he really said that he said new instructions my wife i'll take half i'll take about half what do you say new instructions too by the way drop it near the i-10 at canal road and make sure to take several turns before you get on the freeway so you can't be followed either i don't want you i don't want you followed again okay i'm not going to do it if you're being followed leave your pals alone yeah so the money has been serialized microfilm by the fbi they've taken a picture of every single bill everything so by the way what a boring job you think it's going to be all exciting and then you're sitting there taking individual fucking pictures of $20 bills polaroids i'm sure of it i think this is microfilm so they had like those little cameras like you see in like a spy movie when someone opens a file picks it up real quick and then yeah one of those two-finger deal jobber that they can just snap picture yeah totally one of those but even still you've got a snap move the bill snap move the bill snap set it up make sure it's in frame click it every hundred dollars at a time and you have to then write you also have to write down the serial number of that bill every single bill oh wow so this time chuck drives near the spot i-10 and canal road and guess what's sitting there a jacket blue jacket right there he leaves the money as instructed on top of it and drives away still hasn't talked to his wife nope hasn't talked to his wife yet now he must have at least richard jordan thinks he's lost the cops because no one was he didn't see anybody behind him didn't see anybody following um now the what he doesn't know is the police were there before even he got there richard jordan the police got there early and are watching the whole thing they watch him put the coat down they watch him come get the money once he picks up the money they spring on him yeah but before they can get to him he gets in his car and speeds away with the money not a good not a good operation far away were they not too close apparently wow so now he's flying down a mississippi highway flying down the 10 5 000 and highly marked serial eyes incredibly traceable incredibly traceable that's when a car comes up near him and it's a police car it's not a police car it's an unmarked car but richard jordan just side swipes him fucking rams him into a ditch okay the car goes off into a ditch the other car not richard jordan's yeah somebody hops out of the car that went into the ditch and starts firing a 357 at the at the fleeing vehicle which again how highly dangerous just fucking 357 shots and when open highway is crazy fucking insane imagine that i think that's in the police handbook of do not do that do not take large caliber fucking hand cannons and just fire them indiscriminately in the in at mid-morning it's like right 9 30 in the morning on a major highway this is a traffic just on a weekday busting shots out it hits the rear window of jordan's car shatters it out but that's it car keeps going so they didn't hit him obviously just hit the rear window and this is you could make a movie out of this you can see the scenes the glass shatters he ducks down he keeps driving it's crazy he keeps going problem is the impact bent his fender okay so now his fender is rubbing on the tire which you're not going to go that that far on which kind of fucks the car up and so he keeps going anyway um he later claims he didn't know who the two men were who came up next to him that he side swiped and were firing 357 shots at him he said later on he quote thought it was two rednecks who came down on him with weapons and he quote hauled off and knocked their ass into a ditch you hauled off first and then got shot at though yeah a couple of rednecks the rednecks were a harrison county deputy and an fbi agent those are the rednecks that were next one was probably a redneck yes the other one was wearing a suit and tie with very shiny shoes by the way yeah so in a because this is like a terrible shot evidently this is like mind hunter era fbi like from the show like just look presentable and have shiny shoes is most of the job basically so that these two guys this is one of them the deputy's name is larkin smith who would later on become a sheriff of the county and then a u.s congressman real he's the guy who fired the 357 shot indiscriminately into a fucking highway and we went make him a congressman we should make him have more power to make decisions this guy let us pencil his name on our ballot right but they did get his tag number and they know his car so they set up they have his photo also because they know he is now we know who he is so they set up roadblocks everywhere fucking everywhere anywhere out of this area basically yeah now richard jordan though rather than trying to escape he goes inward and goes to a shopping center and abandons his car in the shopping center it's a late model brown four-door mercury okay he had payments on that that's terrible sable it'll later be found abandoned at the norwood village which is like a mall area basically so what he does now is he hides the bulk of the money he hides twenty three thousand five hundred dollars and keeps fifteen hundred dollars with him um we there's diff varying accounts of where he hit it some people say it was the woods um other people say he it was in an abandoned car behind the store other people say it was like in a like behind a dumpster like there's all sorts of different stories about that well thank you for watching this video i hope you enjoyed it and i'll see you in the next one we do know is he takes fifteen hundred dollars and goes into the shopping center the orange grove shopping center he went to um so he walks into a tg and y which do you know what this is i that sounds familiar it's apparently a it was a very southern right very i i don't know where it was but it was a very prominent chain back in the day it says they're the great american five and dime basically they have everything everything that you could imagine from uh gardening tools to like walmart destroyed them exactly exactly that type of thing but they were the kind of an original version of that um so he walks around in there and you can find something because right now he knows that the cops know what he's wearing and he knew his car so he's got to disguise himself this is fucking amazing so he buys a new outfit to wear he buys a jumpsuit which is an odd choice of something to wear for an escape like he's gonna get shot out of a cannon now he's he is living by city he may as well dress like it this is okay well he's all dressed like trevor i guess yeah so he buys the jumpsuit he buys though that's fine if it was like a you know like a worker's coveralls or something to be a dark green he buys a bright red jumpsuit oh you're not saying track suit you're saying jumps a jumpsuit yeah there's no he buys a bright red jumpsuit because when i'm on the run and i want to blend in i dress like santa claus that's how i like to dress because that very inconspicuous dress like it may as well say department of corrections on the back this is you might as well yeah might as well um he puts it on in the store i'll wear it out thank you um and then he calls a cab from inside the store yeah so the cab picks him up picks up a man in a brand new red jumpsuit at the shopping center and richard jordan is like oh my god i'm gonna wear a jumpsuit i'm gonna wear a jumpsuit i'm gonna tell the driver where he wants to go take me back to the twin star motel yeah now the driver he doesn't know who this fucking guy is sitting back there he's just talking and he's like jesus christ he goes man we're gonna to take a bunch of back roads goddamn cops got fucking roadblocks everywhere it's a huge pain in the ass if i'm gonna get you back to this hotel we're gonna have to go back roads and shit because quote some fool kidnapped a banker's wife and now we're all suffering now we're all gotta fucking stop at roadblocks so we're all inconvenienced some fool does he have hubris is he pissed about that we're not sure some fool um he's probably excited that He didn't know he was the fool, at least. That helped. At least they don't have my picture out there, obviously. Yep. At 1 p.m., the cabbie runs out of back roads and they hit a roadblock. Uh-oh. Okay, so Richard's going to try to be cool back here. An officer looks in the back seat, immediately recognizes him because the photograph has been circulated that much in the last hour and a half. Yeah, and if you're at a roadblock, you know who you're looking for. You're looking for one guy. They all look at the picture. They studied it. They're only looking for one guy, and they go, oh, you look just like that guy. So they pull him out of the car. He's arrested without a fight. Now he's, sure, hands behind him back. Wow. Exactly what he's told. And then the local police hand him right over to the FBI. Here you go. And that cabbie goes, I called him a fool to his face. He still owes me $12, by the way. Can someone give me my fare? Get some money off that fool. Yeah, shit. So 2 p.m. at the FBI. He's in the FBI office. He's read his rights. Now, he had already been read his rights on the way, but he reads his rights again. By the way, when he was read his rights en route to the FBI office, the FBI agent said that as he read them, Jordan recited them along with him, like, excitedly, word for word, like they were singing a camp song or some shit. 99 bottles of beer on the wall they were doing. You get verse two. Yeah. Yeah. You take one down, pass it around, and I'll keep track of the number. What do you say? So they read him his rights again. He says he understands them, signs a written waiver, so he's ready to talk. Knows his rights. First, he denies everything. I don't know what you're talking about. Yes, I'm sitting here in a red jumpsuit holding $1,400 in highly marked bills. Yeah, it was my car you rammed into, or I rammed into you and shot at. And you have my voice calling and all this. But it's not me. I don't know shit. Yeah. Then, as it goes on, and they tell him, dude, seriously. We saw you pick up the money. We watched you do it, bro. What are you talking about? He eventually just goes, all right, fuck it. Let me tell you what happened. Okay. He says, yeah, I made the ransom calls. That's me. All right. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I did it, sure. Yeah. He said, then he takes out a piece of paper and draws them a map. Oh. Maps everything out. Because they're going, their question is, where the fuck is Edwina? Right. That's all anyone's concerned with here. Right. Where the fuck is Edwina? But they can't ask him that until they get him sat down and he signs that waiver. Even though it's, nowadays, I think it would be different with extenuating circumstances. They have done certain things where if it's, if you're trying to save, if there's a missing woman, you can do a little bit more. In the furtherance of, perhaps she's alive somewhere. We got to make sure that she's, that. That health and well-being is taken care of. Absolutely. But here, this is just, you know, he then draws this map. Yeah. And he said, here's a map of where I've been and throw me in the car and let's go and I'll show you around. All right. Okay. And the map's important because it's drawn in his handwriting here. He takes them, gets in the car, retraces his own everything. He shows them where he hid the clothes he'd worn. Shows them where the money is. He shows them the abandoned car. He shows them. He shows them the river where he threw his gun away. Oh, he doesn't have a gun anymore. Then he says, no, he didn't have a gun when he was running from the cops. He never had a gun. Then he says, now let me show you this logging road. Uh-oh. And they go, okay. And they take him out on this logging road, which is part of the map he drew. Yeah. And on the logging road, they find Edwina. Oh, no. And she's already dead. Yeah. Already dead. Already dead. Already dead. She has a gunshot wound. She has a gunshot wound to the back of the head, is what they find. She's face down with her hands behind her back, fully clothed. Execution. Yep. This is 24 hours later. They do the autopsy, and they said the bullet entered the right occipital skull, the lower back right side of the head, like you pissed off the fucking Genovese crime family. And it traveled upward, right to left. And it went back to front and exited above the left eye. So it went in here, exited here. That's what it was, a.38. Yeah. So they're like, yeah, the bullet's never recovered, because the bullet was a through and through. It was on, yeah. Yeah. There was no singeing of the hair, so it's not a contact wound. Didn't have it pressed up. But it wasn't a distant one either. There was a distinct abrasion ring, a dark ring around the wound that's visible in photographs that shows the wound. That shows bone fragments and powder residue. So close enough to get powder burned, but not the actual singeing of the hair. The medical examiner decides in his reasonable medical probability, the shot was fired from within a matter of inches, at most two feet. So anywhere from two feet to two and a half feet maximum is how far away. Then they. Another thing the medical examiner says is that Edwina was stationary and on her knees when the gun was fired. That's so shitty. That's just such a pussy thing to do, to shoot a fucking, some lady in the back of the fucking house. A housewife. Yeah, this is crazy. So she didn't do anything to you. So this is what he says he did. This is what he tells the cops. Now, we know what the medical examiner says, but this is his story, because he says, fuck it, I'll tell you everything. And he does. Well, part of it anyway. Yeah. They said, did you put her in the trunk? And he said, no, I didn't throw her in the trunk. I put her behind the wheel of the car with a gun on her, and I made her drive herself. I made her drive about 30-odd miles out of town, out of the neighborhoods, all out into the pines. That's where I went. He said, I forced her to drive my car. They took the US-90 to the US-49, turned north, passing close to the Gulf National Building where Charles was working at the time. So she could see her goddamn husband's building. There's salvation, or something. At least he could help me in some way. He then forced her to drive to a logging road north of East Wortham Road in Harrison County. It's a sparsely settled wooded area here off a logging road. There's nothing there. Just Mississippi pine trees. That's it. That's when he said he ordered her out of the car. And he said that he was. Telling her that he told her that she was going to stay here with his partner. I'm going to drop you off to somebody who'll keep an eye on you while I go and get money from your husband. And then, once the husband gives me the money, then we will let you go. We're going to arrange a pickup point, and we'll drop you off somewhere, and they can come get you. Fair. So she got out of the car. That's what he's been telling her the whole way there. I'm taking you to my partner so I can do this. Now, they get out of the car. And she starts looking around and doesn't see anybody. She just sees she's in the middle. She's in, you know, in casino where they fucking murder them. Yeah. She sees, holy fuck, this is not good. There's nobody else here. I'm just far away from any human beings that will hear a gunshot. Nobody there. Now, his version is this. Okay. He said she ran. She saw there was no one else there, and she fucking took off. Right. Started running. So he said. He said. He said. He said. He said he panicked at that point and fired a warning shot over her head to make her stop. But he hit her. Not over her head, like just buzzing her into the air. He shot it up in the air, he said. Oh. To a warning shot. Boom. Yeah. Come back. Okay. This is amazing because he said she thought maybe if she thought he was shooting at her, she would stop running. She'd freeze. Yeah. He said, but what happened was. The bullet must have come down and hit her in the back of the head. That's his actual version of events. I shot into the air, and then it came down. Yeah. He and Lee Harvey shop in the same magic bullet store. This is. Oh, Christ. This is way more of a magic. It's the most magic. This is like, I mean, Jesus Christ. Imagine you shoot in the air, and it goes boom, right into the person you were trying to fire a warning shot away from. That's insane. It's fucking nuts. It's like the bullets from Roger Rabbit. Yeah. It's the cartoon bullets. That's exactly what it is. So he said it was a terrible, awful accident, a stupid thing to do just to do this kidnapping to begin with, but this murder was not a murder. This was a 100. It was an accident. A complete accident. Yeah. Yeah. So this is. I don't think he knew. He must not have known the track of the bullet because a bullet coming down is not going to hit you in the back of the head and then go back up again. They rarely fly like a. Speaking of magic. Like a wacky. Like a wacky straw? They don't go up and. No. It's like, yeah, his bullet's like a loopy straw. Like, it just does all sorts of crazy things. Chocolate milk going everywhere. Yeah. Zigzum zags, babe. He also said that his plan was he was going to tie her hands to a tree with his necktie and then leave her there while he collected the money and then come back and let her go. That was the plan. She had to go run away, and then this warning shot thing happened. So, they're like, okay, that's funny because you brought no rope, no blindfold. You didn't even bring a fucking, you know, an orange juice for this lady. You didn't bring anything for a hostage to survive or to be able to do anything. No safe house. You just brought a gun, a tie, and that's it. And a hostage. And now the state has a different version. The state's version, based on evidence and not, you know, self-serving horseshit, is that he made her kneel down, put the muzzle about six to eight inches from the back of her skull, and fucking executed her, period. That's it. The body was found face down, hands behind her back, and they said, that's it. There's no warning shot. It was just an execution, period. Done. That's it. That's the state's version. They even get an investigator who's a blood spatter expert, and he testifies that later on, we'll tell the medical examiner, too, that the spatter shows she was motionless. When she got shot. Oh, boy. So, by the way, back to the murder day here. Okay. He shoots her. She's lying face down on the logging road. This is, he shot her well before he made the first ransom call. He didn't even have her. He never had her when he talked to Chuck, ever. He picked her up. What the fuck? They drove out there. He shot her. That was it. And then he made the phone calls. This is a man with zero and then what? Casey Anthony's hallway. His whole life is Casey Anthony's hallway. He's pressed up against the fucking brick at the end of the hallway, and he's still walking, though, like in a video game, when your character just keeps going. That's what's going on. He can smell the drywall mud, and he's just still going. No. So, what does he do after the murder? What does he do? Go to the motel. No, not at all. What does he do? Once you've murdered somebody, you go to the movie theater and watch Death Wish. What? That's what you do. Is that what he did? You go and you watch Death Wish with Charles Bronson. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It's new. You got to get there for the crowds. By the way, Charles Bronson played a mild-mannered New York architect in that movie, which is exactly what I think of when I see Charles Bronson. Charles Bronson. Don't you? He was mild-mannered whatever he was in every move. Yeah, because that's his only move, acting-wise. That's his baseline. That's his baseline. But anyway, his wife is murdered, and his daughter is assaulted, raped in a home invasion, and he responds by getting a revolver and just basically going out into the streets and executing anyone he sees that he doesn't like the looks of. He turns into a way worse person than any of those people. He kills way more people, and then they make like eight of those. They make like eight of those movies, too. So many. And then dudes in their, like, 40s and the 80s sat there jerking off to it, because they're like, God, I hate black people, too. They're jerking it to it, because that's all it was. That's all those movies were. If only it was a six-foot-four white guy that fought terribly, I'd watch the shit out of those, too. Yeah, that's great. And as a kid, I thought those movies were great. I didn't know. It was just a bunch of fucking violence. We loved all those movies, anything like that. It's action. Yeah, shit's blowing up. Cool. Blood sport? Put it on. Great. Let's watch them fight. What a terrible movie that is. Of course it's bad. It's awful. We loved all that shit when we were little. Thought it was great. And there was a love story mixed in. You got to bring the ladies in, Jimmy. Jean-Claude's got to get his dick wet. Yeah, he's got to show his bare ass at some point. There's got to be a reason for all this blood. It's pussy. It has to be. It's obviously pussy. Revenge for his brother's death on pussy. Not necessarily in that order, by the way. It might be. Come with me. You never know. So back to him in police custody. It's 445 before he's taken to a county judge who tells him he's charged with a capital offense. Now he says he wants to wait for a lawyer. So the judge appoints a lawyer, Rhett Russell is his name. At about 530, another investigator who is over at the county jail and has been there on the phone, on the case for three hours, has no idea that Jordan just asked the judge for counsel. Doesn't know this. He walks in, fingerprints him, photographs him, and starts talking to him because he has no idea that he's already asked for a lawyer. About 6 p.m., another officer arrives, Mirandizes Richard again, and then turns on a tape recorder and asks him to fucking repeat a story. So he confesses again. Exactly the same story he told. The first time I kidnapped her, I took her out, I shot in the air, I accidentally hit her, yada, yada, yada. They type it all up, get it ready, exactly what he said, and he refuses to sign it. You're like, I just, cops probably aren't the best typists. I'd be like, you motherfuckers, you know how fucking long it just took me to hunt and peck this out? There was a yank it out, feed a new paper in several times. You're going to sign it or eat it. Those are your options. It ain't going to happen. It's going to take you to see the new Bronson. Yeah. One of the two, but he refuses to sign it. Now, the next day, January 14th, 1976, they send divers out to find his gun. And this is one of the craziest things that's ever happened on our show before. Okay, they send scuba divers out. And we don't know, some sources credit the Gulfport police. Some say it's the fire department. Okay. And it's important because of what they do, because it's fucking crazy. What they do? They dive in, they find the.38. Wow. They find a.38 in the fucking water, which is incredible, number one. But the craziest shit is, this is the big Biloxi River, they find it, in a river. Okay, so it moves. So when the diver found it, for some reason, and I have a picture I will post on the social media of this. Whoever took the picture has the most amazingly timed shot. It's perfect. Yeah. The fucking guy comes out of the water with the gun and fires. Fires it into the air. Did it work? Yes. There is a picture of him with his hand in the air and fucking flames, you know, spark and flames shooting out of the gun. Visible in the photograph. What an asshole, first of all. Fucking idiot. And then it came down and killed a lady 10 feet away, obviously. As will happen. And Jordan was like, I told you, see? Fucking told you guys. He fired it. He called me a liar. He fired it into the fucking air as he surfaced. It wasn't like he came up with it to let me see if it worked. He popped up and was like, which must have scared the shit out of everybody. Not only did he pop out of the water, but fired a fucking shot off. I'm sure it scared the shit out of him, too. I'll bet he feels like a real bozo. Yeah, no shit. So they said that there was only two rounds in the gun. That was the second round. Wow. Fired from that. And the prosecutor later on will say, this means that Jordan shot Edwina, then cocked the hammer again in case she wasn't dead, then closed the hammer. That's what they say. So it rolled the chamber to the next one. Yes. So that's why it fired. When you come up, maybe don't hold it by the trigger. Yeah, maybe keep your finger off. Hang on to that handle. Maybe the front even, it's fine. The second one, though, was still in the chamber. So obviously, the people around here freak out. This is a very upstanding day. The country club, the yacht club, vice president of a bank, all this shit. So there's an article here saying, quote, how do we answer all the questions? This comes out the next day. They say that the neighbors of Edwina and Chuck Marder, whose children played with their children or visiting nephews and were in and out of their homes on Southern Circle, are all wondering the same thing. How do we answer our children's millions of questions? On why this had to happen to such a good, sweet, happy person as Mrs. Marder? One mother, whose daughter babysits for the Marders, said she was asked, how are they going to explain it to Eric and Kevin? Those are the kids there. Some of the children knew before their parents did that something was wrong and that Mrs. Marder was missing from the home. That's because they were questioned by officers while they were playing basketball out there. They said all the residents were concerned. Nearly all feel the. Act was not a happenstance and that it was a fully planned and executed carefully planned. So they're saying it's a well-orchestrated event. That's they think this is like this must be like some crazy international cabal of, you know, something. Another one's coming then. Oh, everyone who lives on the circle agrees it's not an easy area to find from the scenic drive. Unless one drives up into the circle for some distance, he would not know there are homes located in that area. He said they had to have known something about us when our children go to school when the car. pools leave who's at home and who is not well they said young mothers want to know also if edwina martyr was selected at random and if so why not one of them your husband's not doing well enough that's why literally he just called he said let me who has money people who work at banks let me call a bank ask for someone important and then go to his house he must have money it was that simple saying if you don't have any money take your broke ass home take your broke ass home i think it was uh yeah i can hear fergie saying that dumb shit yeah i can see i can just hear like as a as a group of people oh yeah it makes sense yeah yeah um so that's what's going on here uh the they're like why not me i'm not good enough so they said the circle is occupied by professional people some bankers some lawyers some doctors others retired others owning business firms well that's not the idea he just said monies are money is in banks right um nearby neighbors and a mother who'd been in a carpool with mrs martyr for two years said she was one of the finest sweetest and dearest of persons she was always smiling always pleasant yeah she always had the most radiant smile and just made you feel good to be around her they said she was a home person they said with a small one you have to be one of the mothers said um she said she had many friends who did not live in the circle whom she played bridge with all the time as well there you go there it is bridge the old lady game they said she was always friendly and frequently came over to our adjoining patio to talk in the late afternoon as they watched the children play they said she was very active uh and interested in the catholic school that her old uh that her older son attended and one of the nuns at the school called one of the mothers crying and asked to be told it wasn't true men in the circle are concerned also for the safety of their families mothers feel that their children should be able to grow up in an atmosphere without locks and bolts without having to know every minute that their children are in their homes or their friends homes you know life knowing exactly where your kid they're like i should be able to just have my kid go outside not know where he is for four hours then he comes home alive that's it that should be it every night one man told the paper i'm very concerned for my wife i'm always gone from 8 30 a.m. i live in the big blue house up there in the back of the circle there i'm going from 8 30 to 5 and i can't even be reached i mean i am gone gone off off the map and and if anyone tries to kidnap her they'll have to kill her i know it they will have to kill her she's not going to go lightly so you know i understand you know my pain in the ass i mean my wife i love her so dearly so dearly the mother of my children she said lots of life insurance on her uh dog that's how much she means to me yeah i ensure that in in because it's her life means not that much to me it means a lot the article fifty thousand dollar ransom i'll pay it tomorrow tomorrow just to get her back i need to have her here the article says they also feel that there's a lot more to the events surrounding the kidnapping that is being revealed that they as neighbors and friends should be briefed by officials on the circumstances under which she was abducted they want to know what they can do how they can protect themselves and their children if there were any past connections with the accused man and martyrs bank well number one thing is when someone knocks go who is it and then don't believe them just from no he has no badge call the electric company see if there's actually a person that comes to your door inquire further yeah don't take their word for it also if it's beyond the meter the power company doesn't give a fuck no if you've got bad circuit breakers don't fucking care that's your problem you think she knows beyond the meter and all that it was a housewife in nineteen seventy three you worked at the electric company i didn't know what that meant till you told me the fuck no one knows that and so yeah either way though that's the ask i mean but back then you that was considered crazy to not open the door for someone who not it's just right it's it's like i've been through the phone yeah yeah it's consider a weirdo and a crazy per yeah be like not answering the phone with a fucking answer the phone whereas now it's like obviously i'm not answering that i saw the curtains move they should have to see who it was on they didn't answer the door pieces yet think you're invited to bridge night next time fuck right so they were asked if they were disturbed by being called during the dinner hour by the press and one woman one woman said we're not eating much tonight this is nightmarish it has left its mark on the children it's hard to explain to them why these things happen we are all emotionally ill and we are physically ill our hope is that the guilty party will be punished and will not be allowed to get out of this so that many and so many seem to be do as so many seem to be doing throughout the country the laws seem to favor them and not those who are hurt we have anguish all night and all day over this and want to be informed they said the residents of the circle who had been in constant contact with each other by telephone think that maybe they should get large dogs and let them roam the circle at night what is this junkyard you've now turned your beautiful neighborhood into a junkyard with snarling dogs hunting people if they try to take their trash to the curb are you out of your fucking mind well it's either that james or the congressman lets us have our tigers like we have one of the two yeah how about get dogs and keep them in your house and this happened at two in the afternoon so having them run and roam the night won't matter at all this is why won't your kids eat their dino nugs why are you telling the kids so much well back then they were probably making them eat liver there's no dino nugs back then liver we're having liver i don't want liver pow and they just smack you until you ate liver um this was a practice in the circle several years ago until there was a mass poisoning of dogs a case that has still not been solved they used to let dogs just run in the circle to protect their houses and then someone poisoned them all because they probably got bit trying to take their goddamn garbage out which still don't poison dogs obviously but lay on their grass good god so pre-trial here they're going to take him to trial he wants his confession or confessions thrown out um the second confession the taped one which is taken after he'd asked for a lawyer um that's the big one they're going to say well they want to use the tape and as a confession in court and that was after he was already asked for a lawyer so that shouldn't be allowed in um they jordan here richard jordan said i feel sure that i did tell him that i had an attorney pointed appointed for me meaning the the person who was questioning him um but the the agent who was questioning him said jordan never said a word about a lawyer he just talked um and the tape backs him up because the recording's running the whole time right and there's not nothing about a fucking law he never says shit about a lawyer ever in the whole thing he's been he was mirandized at least five times before this guy walked in too um so the confession is allowed in yeah the main reason is is because he already said the exact same thing before they got there but it's a little controversial to allow the tape in but they're gonna allow the tape in i would think because it's after the whole the only reason they're doing is because it was the exact same thing he said before but it was after he was appointed a lawyer and at that point whatever but he's also a free human being yeah who has free will to speak if he wants to even if he's been appointed a lawyer even if the lawyer said the lawyer came and sat next to him said don't say shit and he said fuck you and said everything it's fine you're in charge of your own shit um so it gets in there and it didn't matter because it's it's a cumulative anyway they would have had all the notes of him confessing the first time so um it's it's very interesting so then we'll get more to this later this does not allow in now later on we'll talk about it jordan's going to claim that the fbi agent frank watts threatened to throw him out of the window of the building oh toss him out the window while he was cuffed okay then jordan asked this this is amazing richard jordan this guy's a real asshole he said that i'd like to take a polygraph to clear myself but i'll take a polygraph if all the officers also have to take a polygraph about what about what happened in that room and the judge said well no polygraph is admissible here anyway so it really doesn't matter you're beef with their weird you know whatever the fuck you're doing that's all on you and i don't care um so i don't want either of your polygraphs sit the fuck down yeah shut up um i'll believe you that's what we do with a jury here they're the polygraph the jury um so then there's a psychiatrist dr clifton davis um jordan himself asks to be evaluated oh he's examined at the gulf coast health center in gulfport uh then he moved to be examined at mississippi state hospital instead um he wanted to do that but he got denied by the court um now his clifton davis this doctor dr davis diagnoses him as a quote sociopathic personality saying he's competent understood the charges as able to assist counsel able to distinguish right from wrong so sane um sane but a dick basically is what he said he's an asshole yeah um he noted that jordan may give or withhold information to cast himself in the best light, the doctor also said. Then he said that this is what he told me, because he said that he talked freely in the room with the psychiatrist. That's what the doctor said. He said that the doctor said he boasted about how he thought he was going to, quote, beat the rap. Oh. He was going to beat it. They're never going to get him. He claimed that he has a 145 IQ, so he's smart. He knows what he's doing. He claimed he'd always been a good con man. He described shitloads of illegal activities that he never got caught for, just stuff. He described the embezzlement with the fertilizer people. He described sitting down and working out a plan, including involving robbery, kidnapping, and extortion. And then he said the main thing that's wild. This is, there's delusional, like, I'm going to blame other people for my shortcomings. And then there's this crazy shit. He told the doctor. He told the psychiatrist, you know, it's really the FBI's fault that Edwina's dead. If they hadn't been there. Well, he said if they had, they followed the car and they were around the drop and they made me nervous. So if they didn't go around making me nervous, I wouldn't have killed her. Oh. So it's really their fault, if you think about it. He said that, wow. And then another psychiatrist later on, he'll just say he didn't do it at all. And we'll get to that. But it's crazy. It's crazy. So his defense team, he starts saying, well, I had an accomplice. I had an accomplice. His defense team won't even use that because they're like, that's not believable. We're not using that. We can't do that. No other person has been mentioned here. There is a change of venue out of the county because the coverage was pretty fucking heavy, as you can imagine. Rich lady gets murdered and kidnapped from her home, for Christ's sake. So they tried it in Pascagoula. The jury selection is July 19th. The trial lasts three days. It's a five-man, seven-woman jury. And not only were fucking everything, everybody's name and address in the fucking phone book, if you were on a jury before it even started, the jurors are Carolyn Pino, Daniel G. Pruitt, Mrs. Francis Faye Smith, Donald Foster, Dorothy Guy, Donny Ray Walters, the list goes on. Yeah. That's crazy. Their names are right there. This is the, okay. I think the prosecutor, I was really impressed with the ease with which the jury was selected. They said, I was impressed that there was not the first juror who said that they have a fixed opinion as to the innocence or guilt. So none of the jurors, even the ones that knew about the case said, I don't have any opinion on it, which to me is just a lie. Yeah. If you've heard of it, you've got an opinion. You've got an opinion. Absolutely. And that's just also a kind of a 1975 Southern thing. Like, I mean, I ain't judging nobody. I don't pass. Yeah. Yeah. I ain't going to pass judgment. Don't tell me not to. So the prosecution opening, they say very simply, quote, he shot Edwina Marder in the back of the head. She fell down with a Kleenex in her left hand and her right hand cupped. Kleenex because she was crying. She was crying. She was scared. The.38 caliber projectile entered or exited the front of her head above the left eye. She was murdered on that logging road. They also bring in a handwriting expert. Dr. Donald E. Stagnall, an FBI handwriting expert that identified Jack Wilson and Jordan as having the same handwriting. Hey, what a coincidence. Jordan obviously used Jack Wilson at the hotel. The expert made the finding after comparing blow-up copies of Jordan's handwriting with Wilson, quote, unquote, registration card there. Then there's a cross-examination by the defense where there's a lengthy explanation of a number of differences between the handwriting samples. And the guy said, there are variations but not differences. There's a difference. He said variations add to the identification, not take away from them. So these actually identify of them more because they're very specific variations. So then they have the psychiatrist here that he was examined by, and they said that he has a sociopathic. He's a sociopathic personality, but is capable of understanding the charges against him and can assist counsel and is just fine. He stated that, you know, he might withhold information, just like I said before, to cast himself in a good light and all that kind of thing. The doctor said that in his opinion, he is, quote, capable of distinguishing right and wrong and assisting counsel, said he talked freely about, quote, how he thought he was going to beat the rap and how he had 145 IQ. So he just sounds like an asshole. That's what he sounds like. Yeah. To the jury at that point. The defense had his own expert here, Dr. Leroy Riddick, who said that you could you couldn't tell how far away Edwina was when she was shot. So she could have been. He said she could have been as far as 30 yards away or as close as three feet. OK, fine. But how do you get the burns? I would even. Look, from 30 feet away. If they want to put it that way, it doesn't matter to me. The point is, she was on her knees 30 feet, 30 yards. I don't care how far away he was. No, it was. She was in a prone position. She wasn't running from anybody. No. Well, this is murder. Yeah, absolutely. But this is their the defense's case is she was running away and he fired a warning shot, whereas not true. She's on her knees and it's from two feet away. So horseshit. Yeah. And they also asked this guy, they said, wasn't. Isn't he a marksman? Right. Like, didn't he an expert marksman? They said, you know. Well, with a 38. And unless it's a long barrel, you can't hit shit. Yeah, it's just a show of snub noses or. Yeah. They said, could a marksman shot her from 10 yards? And this guy said he had no knowledge of his abilities as a marksman and wouldn't opine outside of the physical evidence. So, OK. Now, this is the closing here or, yeah, half hour statement. The prosecution, they said, Edwina Martyr had a right to live. And this guy, by the way, I mean, he put some emotion. He had a handkerchief in his hand the whole time, acting like he was best friends with Edwina, basically, the prosecutor. He knew her, though. He knew one of the bunch of them knew her. He used it to dab tears from his eyes as he described the Martyr family's loss. A nice man. He's good. He gives a shit, at least. Oh, he's he's so teary eyed. Good Lord. So he said, citing consideration given in the courts for Jordan's rights, he says, my God, what rights did Edwina Martyr have that day? He said that that the claim that the deadly wound was made by a warning shot is, quote, a cock and bull story. It's a cock and ball story is what that is. He said he was the judge. He was the jury. He was her lawyer. He was her prosecutor. And he was also her executioner out there that day on Turin Road. He threw two new roles in that. So, yeah, three for it to really have the prosecutors. He's got a lawyer. But because he's a lawyer, he's got a lot of lawyers. He had a whole trial with this person, a whole mock trial. He said Gerald Jordan's family will not have to run up and down the road looking for his body. The body will be turned over to them. It will not be left for the birds of the air and for the beasts of the fields to feast upon. The beasts, too. Wow. Yeah. In reference to a statement that. That that they that his attorney saying Jordan was sick. He said, I say he's not a sick man. I say he's a greedy man. Did you notice how cool and calculated and cold that he was on the tapes making demands? Come on. So after the prosecution does their closing, the defense goes, I think we're about done here. Right. Judge, let's get a directed verdict of not guilty so we can all just go home. Obviously, they have not presented their case. Clearly, we'll all just go home now. Judge was like, are you out of your fucking mind? There's talking confessions and everything else. So he moved for a directed verdict, which is so funny. He alleged the state had not met the burden of proof. His lawyer there, Russell, at that time also moved that the defense be allowed to give the final closing statement. If they're not going to have a directed verdict, he cited a scene from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar in which Brutus's speech to the crowd was turned against him by a speech by Octavian, which followed his, which followed his. Brutus's defense of the murder of Caesar. So he said, I could come out and tell you a good defense. And then this guy can come out and turn it all around. So I want to have the last word. Yeah. Haven't you all seen Julius Caesar? You've all you've all read Shakespeare, all of it. Right. But you'd assume like the lawyers probably have because they went to college and shit. So they're not idiots like us. So the defense. They're not uncultured douchebags like us. Yeah. Now, defense. Well, there's something from it, actually. Yeah. The defense closing here. They, you know, they say the case has been like a nightmare to me. That's what the defense attorney said. Yeah. This is the most impossible thing I've ever done. Yeah. He said no human being in the world has more right than I do to talk about the death penalty. Don't know why he said that. Well, then you're going to figure it out. He picked up the murder weapon and told the jury this gun right here is turned at the head of my client. "just as surely as it is loaded." He criticized, laws allowing sales of guns to quote anyone with a sick mind which yeah maybe if he wasn't allowed to go get a 38 so easily this wouldn't happen he's what he's saying but he had a 12 or 16 gauge he had a shotgun that could have easily done just as much damage or worse can't you but you can't knock on the door with a 16 gauge shotgun on your hand and say you work for the electric company that you can't cut the pocket out of your pants and stuff that down the leg people see with a shotgun they know hey i might have to run if you got it out tucked that's not as easy so very rare for them to carry that it's very rare he then says this quote in my church we live with the memory of six million people dragged screaming to the gas chambers because the law in that country and the highest court in that country said it was the law you're comparing yeah this guy yeah to the holocaust yeah literally innocent people rip from their homes and fucking taken to a concentration camp yeah this guy went out and kidnapped a woman for ransom does he pull this in everything that he defends yeah it compares everything to the holocaust my client jaywalked sure sure he did but my people were taken to the gas chamber and i don't feel like he should have to suffer the same fate it's a 50 fine sir we're just trying i don't care six million jews didn't die for this they did not die for my client to not be able to walk across the street in a free country a free country mind you free wow oh man so so he wow so he trafficked a little heroin six million jews are dead does that mean nothing to you people are you heartless do you have no hearts or minds my god it's not fair that gobbles existed no he said in my heart of hearts i have never believed from the first day that i met this man that this man is a normal man yeah he said he's calm and he's quiet and has never shown one iota of emotion to me about anything he is sick if he is anything he's a sick man he said this man has been diagnosed as a sociopath you know this is improper and uh his voice was so hoarse that he could barely go on as he called for the abolition of the death penalty he said uh he said It says, what we ought to do with Richard Jordan is no worse than what was done. Oh, that was right. That's somebody else. That's the prosecutor. Okay. He said, the prosecutor said that no, he said, the prosecutor says what we ought to do to Richard Jordan is no worse than what was done to Mrs. Marder. I submit to you that if you bring in a verdict against my client, the prosecutor's right. It's not different. You're a murderer too. So why are you better? Just because it's a bad guy? And that's my point always. What are we talking about? We're all, what are we better now? Yeah. He then attacked the idea of a death for death retribution. He said, I'm not advocating this man should go forth on the street. If you're unable to reach a verdict, my client will remain in custody. I will find someone who is willing to something. He says, if the capital punishment is not abolished, all the world will ever give is death for death. The spark of his life is holy. This man needs to help, needs help about as much as any human being. I've ever encountered, am I not, am I advocating this man be convicted? No, I am not. I am advocating that this man should go forth on the streets. Surely you know that I'm not. I only ask that you remember the words of a good man that I even was able to read and understand. He said, they say unto you and I for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and a life for a life. But I say unto you. And at that point he said, please think about it and walk to a seat. The prosecution said, he fucking said he shot her and it came down that way. It's crazy. It's an upward shot. Obviously he executed her. And they said every item of proof we had in this case reveals a diabolical plan of an intelligent schemer. That's more accurate. I agree with some of the death penalty shit, but this guy's right. That guy's not sick. He's just a monster. And that defense attorney is swinging for the fences. Oh, so the Holocaust. Look at, look at your Bibles. I mean, he's swinging for anything. And I don't think telling the whole jury you're a Jew in Mississippi is probably going to endear you like you think it is in 1975 or today, probably. So he said he pulled out that 38 caliber pistol and within seconds Edwina lay dead in those woods. This is to me what makes this crime so reprehensible, so unforgivable. The woman lay dead in the woods at this point. Richard Gerald Jordan begins to plot to get money from Charles Marder. He said that, you know, he. He's a desperate man with demands for a ransom. He's trying to do anything in the world to regain his wife. Marder is. And he said, I don't know what else we could have presented to you to make this any fucking clearer, basically. And so that's it. He said, you know, what do you want? Basically, that's all. He said, what was three year old Kevin Marder saying? I want my mommy. I want my mommy. He was never to see his mommy again. And he wiped tears from his eyes. Can't answer the phone. Marder residents. Marder residents. We're going to be martyrs. He said, life is like a football game. You get a set of rules to go by. Richard. Richard Gerald Jordan has had 30 years of his life to play by the rules. I'm asking you to take Richard Gerald Jordan out of the ball game and out of the game of life because he didn't play by the rules. Bench him. Put him free agency for this guy. Put him on waivers. He said, I've never seen a case with so much overwhelming evidence. He said, that gun is. You know, all that shit and blah, blah, blah. So the prosecutors, what they also do. OK, in Mississippi in 1976, this murder, there is one penalty for it and one penalty only. And it's automatic. Yeah, there's no penalty phase. If you're found guilty, they go guilty and death sentence and goodbye. And that's kind of how they used to do it. Like Old England and shit. They would do like that. And then you'd appeal the death sentence to try to get to life. So I'm talking like 1900s. Oh, even not. Not. Not that that far. So the prosecutor, Owen, is a smart fucking guy. This guy, he urged that the court follow the Florida process, which has one jury decide guilt and another evaluating extenuating circumstances or things like that to possibly get the death sentence or a life sentence. He goes, because the way some court decisions have come down, this is the way it should be done. So he says that he urged the court to follow. The Georgia procedure, which leaves final discretion on sentencing to the judge. But the jury recommends a sentence. Florida, you mean? Or Georgia? No, that's the Georgia way. The other way is two separate juries. The Georgia way is the jury decides, but then the judge's final say. So he said, you could do either one of those. The judge said, after the trial is over, I might consider using the Georgia procedure. But then doesn't at all. July 21st, 1976, the jury's out for four hours. They come back. Guilty of capital murder. Now, this is an automatic death sentence. No penalty phase, no mitigation, no weighing. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty, period. That's it. But like we said, the prosecutors actually discuss filing a motion to give him a separate punishment hearing. But the judge, when they said, oh, we might do that, said, I found no legal basis for it. I'd be making up a procedure. I can't make up a procedure. That's going to be very appealable. So death penalty. OK, now let's rewind a few weeks before that. That was July 21st, 1976, which is less than six months or six months after the murder, which is pretty impressive. Seven months. Very fast. July 2nd, 76, a couple of weeks before this, the U.S. Supreme Court held that mandatory death sentences were unconstitutional in cases out of North Carolina and Louisiana. So they even that's why the guy said, hey, let's not just automatically do this because it's going to get thrown out. We're all wasting our time here. October 5th, 1976, Mississippi Supreme Court decides Jackson versus state, which creates bifurcated trials in Mississippi capital cases, which, if you don't know, means that one jury decides the guilt or innocence. Another jury decides the penalty or at least whether you get the death penalty or not. October 27th, 1976, Jordan's motion for a new trial is sustained. And there you go. Death sentence gone. Ninety eight days later, fucking gone. So now he has to go to do a whole new trial, not just a whole new trial, a whole new guilt phase, whole new punishment phase, because everything was predicated on if he's guilty, he's getting the death penalty. So strategies might have been different and all that. So they got to clean the slate. Holy shit. It's the exact same trial. Exact same. You would think that a defense team would see what didn't work and then do something different. They did the exact same thing. Well, I feel like that group wasn't very red. I think these people know history and they might know going Jew Jew approach again. We're going to I'm going to some of these people might be World War Two buffs. That's all I'm saying. I go heavy on the Jew stuff. So verdict guilty again. Yeah. OK. Sentencing that day, by the way. Yeah. The defense attorney tells the jury that Jordan's been a good person until he was about 30. Then something happens to him. Happened to him. I don't know what he said. He, quote, was. And remains a sick man. They call his parents. They call a prison chaplain who's been praying with him. The prosecution. cross-examines the chaplain, which I don't know what you would cross-examine a prison chaplain about. Whether or not he's got the next ticket stubs? I guess. Did you see sleepers? Sorry. No, yes. Yeah, yeah. They don't cross-examine his parents though. Yeah. Jury deliberations now, that night the jury is deliberating. They come back into the court after hours and say, there's one juror who's not in favor of the death penalty here. Just one and that's all it takes. It's a broken thing. Yep. So the defense moves for a mistrial and it's denied. The judge says, get back in there and fucking pick something, which is rough. Has to be unanimous, huh? Yep. Which is good. It should be. But then they go back in, they go back in for a few hours. And also the district attorney asked the defense counsel if there's a motion for a mistrial at this point, because the judge is forcing them to go back in. Yeah. They said, do you want to go? Do you want to go ahead and file a mistrial? Do you want to go ahead and move for that? Because we're into that. He said, basically, we'll agree to it, is what he said. And the defense said, nah, we're good. Offered a mistrial and they said, no, we're good. Huh. Wow. And they might have looked at the jury. The only thing you can think of is they looked at the jury and thought that one holdout, he's going to hang on. He's never going to do it. Yeah. We're going to get a life sentence. An hour later, they came back. Death penalty, again. Convinced them. Convinced them. All 12. They all said death. Okay. Now we got to go through this rather quickly because there's a wide, this is the most insane fucking post sentencing, whatever shit ever. Okay. So now that's re-sentenced to death. Yeah. Okay. November 22nd, 1978, the Mississippi Supreme Court affirms this case. The court summary was 29 years old, former member of the armed forces. Who is out, uh, who out of desire to obtain, obtain money, abducted Mrs. Martyr at gunpoint and shot her, then continued with the call, what the court called his grotesque scheme. They, they, it is launched for him. This appeals court. Um, they said that also they said that the death penalty they ruled was neither wanton nor freakish. Um, the judge said that the record clearly reveals to us that any jury instruction, considering a lesser offense, was neither warranted nor justified by the evidence. No rational bias or basis appears upon which the jury could have acquitted Jordan or found him guilty of any lesser offense. So they said, uh, he brought her from home, uh, after deceitfully pretending to be representing a utility company, then took her at gunpoint into the woods and shot her. Afterwards, he played the ransom game with Mr. Martyr, his victim's husband for many hours with Jordan, assuring Martyr that Mrs. Martyr was still safe. He said that he was not guilty of any lesser offense. He said that he was safe and well. Anyway, keep on keeping on asshole execution set for January 9th, 1980, uh, all set for that shit. They're ready to go. Um, but there's a problem. Yeah. The court grants him a stay of execution on December 2nd. Um, he, uh, they give him a stay of execution saying that, um, there, I guess he exhausted all appeals. There's something with the U S district court. They just want to basically send it out. Give him another chance at appeals. Now by 1980, Chuck and the kids have moved on. They've left the area. They moved to Lafayette, Louisiana. Um, Chuck's going to end up remarrying a few times by the way. Yeah. He remarries. Um, Eric will later say that none of them were mother figures to him, which I don't know how anybody would be if your mother was murdered like that. That'd be hard. Um, so he also said that he thinks Chuck got stricter after the murder. We were more strict on than hard on them. Um, he says he can't be sure, but he was a kid and his father never talked about it. He said his father would not talk about what happened ever with the kids. And he said that it's not a, he said that my mother's death was not a topic of conversation with my father ever wouldn't do it, which is, you got to talk to your kids about that. I would think, but you're so broken up, I guess, you know, um, 1982, August here, a federal appeals court Friday. Upheld the murder conviction, but ordered prosecutors to reconsider whether he should get the death penalty. Okay. A fifth us circuit court of appeals ruled the case of Richard, Richard Gerald Jordan, who was convicted in the kidnapping. He was appealing us district court, uh, us district judge, Harold Cox's reversal or refusal to overturn his second conviction in death sentence. Uh, the appeals court said there apparently may be merit to Jordan's claims that he did not intend beforehand to kill Mrs. Martyr. And therefore, the state, uh, court trial aired in the charge to the jury about malice of forethought. So basically the difference between premeditated and not, they're saying maybe it wasn't premeditated. The court instructs the jury that the malice of forethought mentioned in the indictment does not have to exist in the mind of the defendant for any length of time. So long as it exists at the time of the alleged act, he said, the court instructs the jury that, uh, it's pre that act without legal justification or excuse. So the fifth circuit court does this. They affirm the conviction. They affirm the confession ruling that that should have been allowed in, uh, noting he was Miran dized at least four times and know them as his rights. So well, he recited them from memory. So wow. Can't really say that he didn't know what he was doing and, um, and all that kind of shit. So that all stays in two, it vacates the death sentence. Oh, yeah. Because of a jury instruction, uh, specifically what, uh, uh, Oh, and the prosecutor said in closing argument, he said, each of you have to determine what is an aggravating circumstance. Now you can't do that under Godfrey V Georgia. You can't hand 12 people the power to decide for themselves what counts as an aggravator. There is a list of aggravators. Yeah. Um, you can't do that under Godfrey V Georgia. You can't do that under Godfrey V Georgia. You can't do that doesn't sop it up. It's an aggravator. I mean, it's, you know, so now Richard says he didn't even do it. Oh, his new thing is I didn't even do it. So you can't, you can't kill me. He said, I never fired the shot that killed her quote unquote. Oh yeah. He says now he has an accomplice whose name he won't reveal even under threat of the death penalty. He can't reveal this man's name. Kill chamber. The name will probably go with me. It's more or less death. It's more or less a point of honor to me. Get the fuck out of here. You gotta be kidding me. He said a perfect out when they fired on his vehicle to say they hit her. Yeah, they, well, they would know it wasn't a, it was their bullet probably, but still it's something he wouldn't know. So he said that I took her from her home and I dropped her off with the accomplice in the forest. He said, I left her with him. And I went back into town to call Mr. Martyr. When I got back, she was dead. He said, she tried to escape. I have no reason to doubt the man. I don't know about you, but I believe him. He's a very honorable fella. Yeah. He said he only confessed because the FBI agents threatened him. He said, do you know anything about police in Mississippi? It was either confess or I wouldn't be here now. They said they were going to throw me out of an eight story window. Right. And he says, even though his ultimate fate is uncertain, he realized that he could end up in the gas chamber someday. He says, of course it'll be, I'd be disappointed to say the least. Talk about an understatement. How would you feel if you go executed? Disappointed. I'd be, you know, downright disappointed. I got Thai food last night and the wings in my drunken noodle were a little mushy. I was disappointed. Yeah. A little, I mean, it's still edible, but just a little mushy. I was a little disappointed. Yeah. Not, didn't get dragged to the gas chamber. Same as if I was dragged kicking and screaming to my death. Wow. He's very disappointing. You guys. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not happy with this at all, by the way. He said, I can face it. I don't want to, no one in their right mind wants to die from all I've heard. I don't believe it'll be painful. I'll be apprehensive about not knowing. And he said, I've had, uh, he said that he's not afraid of any punishment because he knows God has forgiven him. Oh, well that's good. Oh yeah. Had my back sliding and they use an apostrophe backsliding, but I know I've been forgiven for all the things I've done wrong. He said he regrets what happened to miss, uh, Mrs. Margaret, but he doesn't think that killing him will solve it. He said that they kill me instead of one unhappy family. You've got two families unhappy. Killing me can only compound the suffering already caused true. And here's the best part. He said, you know, I've been thinking about it. I no longer support the death penalty. He literally said that he goes, you know what? I thought about it. I used to be a supporter. He said, now change my mind. This case has done one thing for me. He said, he said he used to like it, but he said firsthand experience has changed his mind because he knows it's not a deterrent, which that's a good guy to ask. He said, as far as the death penalty having an effect on anyone's behavior, no, it's not a deterrent. People who think that way are giving criminals too much credit for intelligence. Right. Thank you. You're not saying that that's what it is. You're not saying that, Look, states with the death penalty tend to have the higher murder rates yeah it's not because they haven't caught up to it yet it's just it doesn't do anything well the thing is about murder in a lot of situations it's based upon and predicated upon if if i do this i will gain something from it money or whatever if you've got people that are that broke that they're willing to murder over it there's your biggest problem it has nothing to do with well not only that people don't kill thinking about the consequences no like well if i do this i'll do 20 for this they don't think about that they're gonna get away with crimes that's how they do it it's the consequences of if they don't murder that are way worse because we're gonna get away with it and if you want to say it's for retribution then fine be honest say it's for retribution if everybody says we should we should have retribution in the way of the death then only then do it i don't fucking care i'm just saying that it's to say it's for deterrence which is what they try to say it's not they've done the math it's we've had fucking decades it does not help you can say fuck those guys that's a different argument go ahead make it um he said the only reason people support the death penalty is out of frustration with their own lives which i do agree with that in a certain extent to a certain extent yeah it's a way for them to get back at the system to pick at the weak and the defenseless it seems like the less control people have over their lives the more they support the death penalty which tends to be true actually he said that they admitted that if anyone then he said though if anyone ever killed one of his children quote if i could get my hands on him i'd carry it out the death penalty myself i believe it sure and anybody should think that way he says he by the way he does miss his children two sons and a daughter or two daughters and a son he said more than anything hasn't seen them since his arrest because his ex-wife has kept them from him oh because they don't want to she doesn't want to bring him to see a murderer all the way to mississippi to see a murderer he hopes a lawsuit he filed will allow him to have contact uh he said his parents come to see him he said it hurts me that it brought disgrace and shame on them meaning his parents when these things happen people often say the parents didn't do the right job my parents did do the right job they can't be responsible for me all my life there's times when i wish i could take back one minute of my life um he says uh there's a saying yesterday has come and gone today is the only time i have therefore i must live for today so what does chuck want to happen what's he want why chuck said if we had a life without parole sentence which they didn't have in mississippi at the time i might feel differently about the death penalty chuck's a reasonable guy sounds like he said i think the reason for a lot of the crime in this country is that we do nothing about it that's not exactly true he said as for the man who killed his wife uh he said i couldn't have done what he did jordan should never be allowed to live in society i would be perfectly perfectly happy with him behind bars if i knew he would spend the rest of his life there and that's a very reasonable approach to it i don't have i'm not bloodthirsty i just don't want him out on the streets doing this to other people right great that's that's don't kill him fine just never let him out yeah i'm fine with that like i said my family was fine with that when you know we had someone murdered we all went yeah just put him away that's great go ahead what the fuck are we gonna do go down there and kill her it's stupid anyway uh they said we don't talk about what happened much anymore eric's son said though um 1983 re-re-sentencing uh-huh wait re yes this is re-re re-re re-re-sentencing uh his defense attorney withdraws he's taking a sabbatical from practicing law oh for holocaust studies possibly i'm not sure um joe sam owen the prosecutor isn't the prosecutor anymore he's in private practice but the martyr family asks him to come back and do it because they felt like he was the most passionate put on a new number just come back in get in the game so he's a he does it as a special prosecutor he later estimated he spent more than 3 000 hours on the case oh he said he knew the reason why he did it because he knew edwina he was a member of the saint james catholic church and she was a member of it too and she knew him or they knew each other uh they bring in a prosecutor uh prosecution expert here talking about she was not running she was kneeling richard testifies now attaboy jordan's gonna testify he explains the debts the car the boat the store bills he had the department credit card department store credit cards he said he was desperate he said quote i meant to shoot over her head to scare her and let her know i wanted her to stop running which in that what happened to the accomplice that last year yeah he said i wanted i needed the money he said i wanted the better things of life but i didn't plan to kill somebody and he also said he was sorry and realized what he did was wrong i wanted to eat caviar you don't understand i really wanted to keep my boat you know uh you had those tiny carrots they're amazing they're so good oh my god tell you what so the they call character witnesses death row lifeguard relative or not lifeguard death row guard uh relatives friends he puts on 16 mitigate mitigation witnesses and himself six family five friends jail inmates prison chaplains um the prison guard said that he made jordan a quote hall man a job with responsibilities over other inmates and was highly complimentary about his conduct so he said that uh you know he does great he the hall man's a very important guy that you're counting on and he does it they also bring in a pathologist all this is all favorable to him obviously uh the court does deny the defense one thing here and that is um talking about uh that he has devised a method for generating electricity using wind tunnels and he wants to present that as a reason why he should live because he can literally help society is what he's saying okay according to the proffer he's been in contact with the tennessee valley authority about it and claimed that he had entered into an agreement with him to with them to put together this thing wind farms wind tunnels not farms tunnels like you can i don't know so the prosecutor um brings blood spatter evidence they bring all their people um they said he killed her before if he was so desperate he didn't fill out a single job application maybe start there right um they said this is the prosecution closing closing here through the entire process that we employed here at another time in another place we presented the case the jury found him guilty we were required to do so we went through the process of convicting uh convicting him of guilt he says he takes a stand and says i'm a changed man i didn't mean to do what i did you finally got me convicted now you got me in the box it's getting close to the penalty stage and i'm gonna play on your sympathy i'm gonna play on your mercy i'm gonna play on your bias i'm a changed man i didn't mean to do what i did it was an accident and i'm sorry because i found the lord blah blah blah that's what he says he said another thing that's bothering me and has bothered me since 1976 and i've never had to face this problem until mr jordan took the stand many many years we've worked on this case waiting for this very minute and i'll be dad gummed i'll be dad gummed boy yeah he said and i'll be dad gummed if he doesn't take the witness stand and say i'm sorry i'm sorry i did that that's and i think i ought to have life imprisonment see because when i was a little boy i wasn't a bad fella so you should give me life in prison that's what he's saying um he said but don't let him get a life sentence and let him keep living the good life you know in a mississippi state maximum security prison the good life if you if you yeah if you resent him to yeah life that's where they that's where he gets the 25 grand and he gets to eat however he wants forget about it they're gonna let him jet ski on a mediterranean cruise next week women feeding him grapes we can't be having that he said richard jordan is no fool he's shrewd he's smart he wasn't going to get into any trouble nothing he has nothing he's done has benefited society he didn't do all that for society he did it all for himself wow the defense closing is quote there wasn't any issue as to his guilt in the case and we've acknowledged this all along that it was a horrible crime they do bring up the tennessee valley authority thing although they said that the tva never bought it but they said we have a picture of a man who's not just sitting idly by he's trying to make a contribution with his life since this horrible event anyway you sir may fuck off death penalty again god damn more death penalty he is losing so hard yeah he's just really really losing it man um so chuck says the guy's cold-blooded he was trying to extract money from me after he'd already murdered my wife i'd like to see him get his just punishment yeah understandable um he says he doesn't have any sympathy for me for criminals who end up on death row because of deprived backgrounds he said some people say they had a poor life but i came up the hard way oh did you how hard how hard was it though yeah we don't know i'm not going to break the guy's balls but who knows i mean it's there's you know varying degrees of hard way um he said he lived with his grandmother as a youngster because his mother was unable to care for him he said i went to college on my own i didn't come from an affluent family and managed to grow up and provide for my family without robbing and stealing that's fine good for you good yeah it's good he said there's always loopholes he said i don't think he'll ever face the death penalty he said there's always loopholes like tax loopholes the lawyers want to get uh business they do it for money for publicity if a guy can be an f lee bailey he will what does that mean if he can be a big spectacle lawyer who's big and famous and travels the world and hangs out with celebrities and gets people off the deck if i can keep him from being put to death then perhaps my career will flourish yeah pretty much yeah which yeah that's your job so why wouldn't it yeah yeah also he said the psychological adjustment for of his life has been hard i can't imagine having two little kids you gotta raise and somebody's murder that's horrible he said time cures all problems you never forget but the further you get away from the happening from the happening the thing just becomes a shadow in your mind the first years were the hardest 76 77 78 but i'm better than i was a year ago and i'm better than i was the year before that you get more normal every day he remarried last year and he says that his sons now have a mother again even though later we find out that wasn't the case and yeah and uh he's happy to be in a place where he's not surrounded by constant reminders 85 appeal to the supreme court um by the way the mississippi supreme court i don't know if you know this or not um i do consists of a man so old that his daddy fought in the civil war yeah a muskrat who smokes a corncob pipe and then just the ghost of huck finn which i didn't understand at all that's the whole supreme yeah but don't ask that muskrat what's in that pipe no no he smokes what he wants it's it's up to him so there's some shit in there there's some shit the court the defense complains about not being able to present the wind tunnel stuff and more outside of the closing argument oh it's not fair and they said well it would have been hearsay if you let this guy do it anyway so it's fine um april 1986 the u.s supreme court decides skipper versus south carolina holding that a capital defendant has to be allowed to put on evidence of his good behavior in prison because a jury is entitled to draw favorable inferences about his character and his probable future conduct will he be a problem in prison they do that a lot now that's a big thing in terms of like the dangerousness in prison may 86 the u.s supreme court vacates the death sentence and sends it back to mississippi in light of the skipper case all right wow they said under the ruling in skipper we now know this type of material is relevant and the opinion of the court is contrary uh to the contrary is erroneous remanded for a new hearing yeah december 1991 sentencing hearing yeah december 1991 they're going to offer him a deal 15 years later how about life without parole and we'll call it a fucking day he says okay and agrees in writing never to challenge his sentence again no appeals no nothing shut the fuck up and go live your life in jail yeah so he says he'll do that and the d.a. joe sam owen um he is he objects but the judge imposes it anyway um the problem is here in 1976 the year of the crime therefore the law that governs there was death or life without parole there was death or life with with the possibility of parole there was no life without in 76 so they said you can't it's not a sentencing option yeah it's not one so the deal everybody just made is not no one will do it it's not a sentencing option it's not a sentencing option yeah null and void but they make it anyway chuck says i'm not looking to put this guy to death and i still don't think he's been punished for what he did i feel like this was probably the best thing we could come up with i kind of get tired of having to go through the appeal after appeal and going through this situation again and again right and the the son eric said i don't really have any desire to go basically waste my time i would have thought that this would have been taken care of long time ago but it's been probably been too long the 1990s he's in gen pop he's made a trustee oh he works he volunteers for extra hours he's well-mannered he causes no problems uh in the whole time he's there he writes short stories which we have an excerpt of don't worry he kept working on the wind tunnel he hired a lawyer from prison to make sure that when he showed the design to the tva they couldn't steal it from him like a he's in gen pop he's making sure that when he showed the design to the tva they couldn't steal it from him like a an instructional videotape on how to prevent crimes like his for fbi agents this is crazy the prosecutor said this tape was given to bank executives and family members and whoever else it was on dealing with kidnapping and what to do and what not to do and jordan was on that tape he used that tape as evidence later of how he was rehabilitated and contributing to society i was a little upset by that but the tape's helpful though so why what are you upset about you know what i mean like well i don't want him using that to his benefit i don't want him using that to his benefit it's our i don't want it yeah i don't want him doing good things because then he can say he's doing good things well he's doing good things though shut the fuck up and you know still say it doesn't outweigh his whatever but don't say i don't want him doing good things for society it's still good um he says that he hates to admit it but jordan's been a model inmate if there is such a thing he said he said he's not had one problem no reprimand no altercations but i always thought he was intelligent and manipulative to do what he did that's the prosecutor 1994 he goes against the agreement and appeals his life sentence like a fucking moron okay okay because in 1976 there was no life without so he should get life with parole he's trying to get parole that's the point here um so in a he's already served 18 years and parole eligibility at that time would have made him just ready to go for parole 97 mississippi supreme court decides it says that he's not entitled to have his sentence amended on remand he has the right to be sentenced by a jury and the state has the right to seek the death penalty in that jury back to one everybody oh my god back to one uh he has another evaluation yeah he's diagnosed anti-social personality disorder manifesting and failure to conform to lawful behavior deceitfulness conning others for personal profit impulsivity aggressiveness reckless disregard for the safety of others and a failure to honor financial obligations and a lack of remorse asshole okay re-re-re sentencing unbelievable is it re-re-re-re-re-re-re i'm not sure i think it's three re's he goes to to owen the prosecutor and offers to waive any challenge he might have and accept life without parole i'll just do it i swear owen says fuck you not gonna happen not happening um just vindictive he just didn't just fuck you you've i'm tired of dealing with you um so they do it they have another thing they have another character witness um he has a retired telephone company employee who's known him since he was a kid who started visiting him and prison testify and this man said in my heart i don't feel the man would be a danger to anybody anywhere for anything i don't if the man was out he'd be welcomed in my house then on cross-examination they said did you know he did this this this this this this and the guy said i don't know any of that and they go would you change your mind now and he goes maybe yeah yeah so um anyway the he said that he's comfortable in prison and you can't make him comfortable the owen guy said i stand before you today as a special prosecutor this is not my profession i gain nothing from it i profit nothing from it he said i'm not even getting paid for this at all i'm volunteering doing this for free he said i just want justice he said if you feel that i am harsh on richard gerald jordan then i'm not going to do it i'm not going to do it i'm not going to do it i apologize but i've been doing this case a long time in other words i'm this guy pisses me off yeah his law his lawyer said look at the life of him as a whole let's not just judge him on the basis of one snapshot in time the whole totalitarianism of it he chooses not to speak this really 35 minutes of deliberation for the jury you sir may fuck off death penalty again for the fourth time fourth time holy shit so he's going here um wow uh so owen is just like finally happy and he thinks it's over yeah then um the mississippi court of appeals uh ruling on whether uh his crime was legally heinous atrocious and cruel said he could have allowed edwina to secure the safety of her child he did not have to kill her in the cold and humane way he did after he received his ransom he could have returned her to his family her family physically unharmed um 2001 appeal the state supreme court said even someone without any ballistics training can see that that bullet cannot travel in the way that they clearly tried to describe it 2001 the county honors owen for all the work he's did they said they have say he saved taxpayers personally by doing shit for free 400 to 800 000 which is a lot for a small mississippi county you know what i mean um that's crazy um he uh also the short stories he reads a short story here we go this is the prosecutor reading this to the press quote the early morning sunlight filtering through the slats of the venetian blinds struck my sleep-filled eyes about the same instant as the shrill bell from the cheap alarm clock on the nightstand began its daily assault on my eardrums and uh he said the owen said when you work on a case and work hard for 26 years you just don't want to let it go i want to see closure And he laughed at the writing, by the way, which isn't terrible for a guy. jail it's fine venetian lines though they're just uh horizontal yeah that's all he's a venetian sounds much better is venetian the they're the tall ones right so yeah yeah he's comparing the bars to venetian blinds it's actually sliding glass door yeah yeah that kind of shit um martyr said it's just so painful to relieve this stuff again or relive this stuff again and again the husband uh 2002 supreme court denies his shit 2005 mississippi supreme court agrees the trial council had failed to prepare to challenge the state's blood spatter expert still denied relief though um deficient but not prejudicial they say 2010 federal habeas denied 2012 executions of mississippi stop right they don't have the drugs anymore so now they're looking at making a compound we've done this with the drugs a hundred times 2024 um here apparently he's trying to appeal denied again 2015 supreme court they don't want to fucking hear from you this time eat dicks august 2015 the drugs here um they said that they are no longer able to obtain sodium theopentyl or phenobarbital because of pressure on manufacturers and that they are looking to include uh midazolam as a drug to use to do this that's the i think uh knock you out drug yeah before that happens like ceases existence 2017 he changed his mind he changed his mind he changed his mind he changed his mind he changed his challenges the cocktail, saying it won't work very well. 2021, Mississippi executes David Neal Cox with this potassium chloride, midazolam, and vicurinamium. The commissioner refuses to say where the state got the drugs. Okay, I'm sorry. That's insane. I got a guy. If you had to go behind a building somewhere to get the drugs, you are no better than these people. I got a guy. That's ridiculous. Unless there is a clear path of paperwork and all legitimate, this is insane. October 2024, the attorney general moves the Mississippi Supreme Court to set an execution date within 28 days. They set it later in 2025. He's now 79 and the oldest guy on death row by far. May 1st, 2025, they set his execution date for June 25th. June 4th. He seeks an injunction over the three-method protocol there. Don't worry, we got a guy. That's it. There's also a clemency petition based on PTSD. Oh. They said, like other veterans, Vietnam forever changed Richard. According to his petition for clemency, they said they talk about the finding these people and having to use defensive and suppressive fire with M60 machine guns mounted onto the top of cargo doors, helicopters, all this shit. He was trained to kill. On site, they talk about the hut. His base, the Phu Bai near Hue in South Vietnam, was attacked in one of the bloodiest battles during the 68th Tet Offensive, during which he was under constant threat of being killed. He was in the Tet Offensive. Apparently so. Now, as Edwina's son, Eric, says, it doesn't surprise me that you want to try to play whatever game you can so they don't put you to death. He's kind of playing the military card and seeing if that's going to help him out. Uh-huh. They didn't go to these here. They're done. The family is done with this shit. It's over for them. June 20th, 2025, a U.S. District Judge rules execution may proceed. Uh-oh. But they must contact the court if the drug fails to work. That's part of it. Oh. Give us a call. Gotta let us know. Give us a ringy ding ding here. June 20th to 23rd, appeals all over the place. Fifth Circuit, Supreme Court, all this type of shit. Nothing goes on, though. Um, nothing at all. Uh, June 23rd, 2025, execution set for two days from now. Um, the son, Eric, says that, um, you know, he says, I don't want him to get what he wants. If you want to spend the rest of your life in jail, then I would rather you not get that. And if that means you get executed, you get executed. He's like, if he wanted to die, I'd want him to have to sit in jail. I just think he's an asshole. Which makes perfect sense for the son of a person murdered. That's perfectly reasonable. Um, he said, I don't try to dwell on it too much. Also, Charles, Chuck is still alive at 88. Is that right? He's hanging on. Um, June 24th, 2025, the Fifth Circuit Court upholds, uh, this. The governor announces he will not grant clemency. Richard makes a YouTube video. What? Begging the, quote, public for clemency. Via how? Somebody made a video for him. He's got people in there. Or the news or something. Yeah, but it was a YouTube video. Wow. Yeah. June 25th, 2025, execution day. Here we go. He's talkative and in a good mood. Uh, he's been moved to a holding cell. His family and, and spiritual advisors and lawyers came. He's able to eat his last meal with his family. Last meal, Jimmy. Peach cobbler. Chicken tenders, French fries, strawberry ice cream, and a root beer float. Oh. He's going with some, some bubbles. Going with a brain freeze, yeah. Oh, yeah. 4.30 p.m. The U.S. Department of Justice. The U.S. Supreme Court denies the last stay. Uh-huh. 6 p.m. is execution time. His wife is in the room. He's married. He's married still. Well, I don't know if he's still married or if this is a new wife. I'm not sure. But it says his wife is in the room. His lawyer, one of his lawyers are there. He says, first, I'd like to thank everyone for a humane way of doing this. That's his last words. I want to apologize to the victim's family. Then he thanks his lawyers and his wife and says, I love you all and I'll see you all on the other side. All right. And then a man wearing a mask and dark sunglasses walks in and rubs his chest and says that that means he's unconscious. Oh. Again, if you have to say, I can't tell you where I got the drugs, then I have to have a guy come in in a mask and dark sunglasses to perform it. You're doing something that is not, it's untoward. You clearly feel bad about this. Exactly. But either way, this guy, who gives a shit if this guy's dead, he's an asshole. So he lies there with his mouth open, takes deep breaths, dead at 6.16 p.m. Wow. There you go. So he's dead. That's it. The family gives a statement saying nothing will bring back our mom, sister, or our friend. So basically, who gives a shit? This guy cost the government. So much money. So much money. Untold amounts of money. That's all the things we're talking about. The money part, too. It's insane. And that was even with the free prosecutor. So Edwin is buried in the St. Louis. Cemetery number three in New Orleans. So there you go. That's it. So there. What a story, Mark. There is Gulfport, Mississippi. There you go. If you like that story, get on whatever app you are listening to. Give us five stars. Netflix. Thumbs up, fuckers. If you're watching this, please do that. It helps a lot. They have a double option. Double thumbs it, fuckers. Let's do it. Go nuts. Shut up and give me murder.com. Tickets for live shows. Merchandise. September the 19th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. September. I'm sorry. September the 18th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. September the 19th. Minneapolis State Theater. Then in October and November, Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown, Boston. Get your tickets right now. 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This is executive producer Gary Howard checking in Alabama, Georgia. And Happy Hour is checking in Splendora, Texas. Oh, Splendora. Happy Hour just got a new truck. His buddy got his old truck and fucking this thing is, I'll send you the pictures that I got of this truck. James, it makes me want to drive a fucking Peterbilt. So the grocery store is badass. I'm really trying to drive this Peterbilt real quick. We got it. Excuse me. Everybody out of the way. I have to get my, I have to get Oreo cookies. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Liz Vasquez, Janice Hill, Scott Richard, James Donovan Harris, the second Lena McCown, Katie Caddy, Haleah Kala, Kim with no last name, Brianna Carr, Anita Justice, Lauren, Lauren Ashmore. What is it? I said, I need a justice. Yeah. Perhaps. You can get all the justice. I'm sure that's their real name, actually. Maybe. Because it's spelled U-S, not I-C-E. Yeah, probably. Certainly some. All right. Brooke Rice, Lauren Ashmore, Lacey with no last name, Mike Friday, Ralph Sampson, 50, Lee Donnersberger, Mylene Barty, A-D-A, the law has donated to us. Amy McClain, Nina Corbett, Corbett. Oh, it might be Ada. just in all caps, or it's ADA, huh? I don't know, Jackie Anderson, Jonathan Thatcher, Dow Oi, Dow Oi, that is a tough one to, all right, Kyle Huge, good for you, Amanda Fancher, Sam Sum, Brian Donahue, Lynn Whalen, Mortimer, Becky Kuch, cock, not cock, but it's kuch, Ashley Robinson, Nicky Mann, Michael with no last name, Joel Barnhart, Stacey Myers, Ari with no last name, Jocelyn Pinto-Alvarez, Ashley Johnson, Shannon, Shanann Burnett, maybe it's Shannon, Paige Carson, Lacey Strickland, Jess B, Heather Bevan, Hattie, nope, that's Hattie, Lang, Minga with no last name, Jackie with no last name, Brandy McCracken, McCracken, I'm sure it is, Wanda Waters, Sloth with no last name, Kelly Coyne, Dustin Breitkreutz, Justin Terry, I think it was Dustin, did I say Justin? I don't know, finally with no last name. That's all right. Jen Logan, Dave, no last name, Nurse Roe, Levi with no last name, Jennifer Loggins, Kenny's kid, Tara G, Katie Stout-Bautista, Jerry Fitzgerald, Bobby Hollersgay, Austin Roos, Mr. Moose, Regina, Regina LaManna, LaManna, Kings Come Down, Thick Ticka, Ticka, Tickonda, Ticka, Ticka, Ticka Roda, Thick Tickonderoga, Tickonderoga, there it is, it's not that hard, Christine with no last name, Jessica Thomas, Kristen with no last name, Erin Anderson, Nicole no last name, Lucas Danielson, Nick with no last name, Christian Jennings, Dennis Ambrocchio, Ambrocchio, Ambrocchio, Jackie with no last name, Jack with no last name, Nick O-Ring, or O-Ring, Ryan Rosser, K. Richardson, Amanda W. 79, Chad Jones, Allison Williams, Charles Jenkins, Justine Kendall, Haley with no last name, Nicole White, Stacey Lowenson, Lewinson, Diamond Deb, Brian Kuhl, Cole, Janet Cole, that's two people that know each other probably, maybe it's K-U-L-L and C-U-L-L, there's no way they know each other, right? There's no way they know each other. They're not related. It doesn't seem like it, but it's just a big coincidence. It's fascinating that they're right next to each other. They donated together. Drew McElmoil, McElmoil. No. Sounds like somebody with a speech impediment trying to say McElmore. It does, it does. Jessica with no last name, Kiki Bass, Cindy Maynard Gout, Lisa King, L-S-M, Shelley with no last name, Corey Smith, Richard Stamper, Tracy Whiskerman, Jennifer Weathers, Mike O'Philippelli, Julie with no last name, Raymond Yazzefsky, Michaela Miller, Joe with no last name, Jake Niebuhr, Tay Lee, Teresa Nault, Rinaldo Vargarici, Kathy Ann Hench, Lauren Dobbs, Brent Laylor, Cat Daddy, 69, I can pronounce that just fine, Allison Banford, Sophia Padgett, Mike Tillery, Bradley Goss. Geiger, Angela Anderson, Balzac with no last name. I think that's the full name, James. I'm sure it's a real person. Kim Graviter, Todd Gow, Rhonda Ganocchio, Joe Zamuda, Generation X Babs, we are Wisconsin, I don't know, Shia Lotto, Melissa Renner, Kevin Demare, Vanessa with no last name, Neil with four last names, doesn't give them, Hunter Paddy. Jamie Trank, that's the right way to donate, P.S. 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