29. A Holistic Path through Infertility with Dr. Katie Rose

We get into this vicious cycle where people learn that stress might contribute to infertility, but infertility definitely causes stress. Then they're stressed because they're stressed, and then they're worried that their infertility is causing the stress. It's like this vicious downward spiral. If we don't catch people with the right resources, we do see research coming out showing that women who've gone through infertility have essentially the same level of PTSD-like symptoms as someone who has gone through a cancer diagnosis and cancer treatment. Hey there, my name is Wendy, and I'm an environmental toxins lawyer who is obsessed with showing women how to toss the toxins out of their life and embrace a more holistic lifestyle. I'll be dishing up by size, but then you're the episodes. On all things detox, low toxin, what's that toxin? And what is it really doing to my health? I'm breaking it all down for you, separating the myths from the facts and pulling back the curtain on the products and beauty industry. You'll hear my unfiltered and sometimes unpopular, but honest opinions. No topic is off limits. We'll dive into what's really causing our thyroid issues, hormone imbalances, infertility, and more. Think of it as a crash course for all things holistic living, but for real life. You don't have to do everything. You just have to start somewhere. Let me show you how. This is the Detox Delima Podcast. Welcome to episode 29 of the Detox Delima Podcast. I am your host Wendy, and today we are doing something just a little bit different. This isn't ask me anything episode, except I'm not the one answering your questions. I've got Dr. Katie Rose here with me today, and I asked all of you on my Instagram what questions you wanted to ask, and she's here to answer them. Dr. Katie is a licensed naturopathic physician and fertility coach who has helped hundreds overcome fertility struggles. Her unique three-step method to support the body, mind, and spirit has allowed her clients to conceive despite years of unexplained infertility, failed IVF treatments, PCOS, Hashimoto's, Endometriosis, and recurrent pregnancy losses. Current research shows that one in six women suffer from some form of infertility, and that number has been rising one percent every year for the last 50 years and continues to climb. I love Dr. Katie's philosophy on treating the whole woman and getting to the root cause, and I believe every woman deserves a doctor like Dr. Katie. Let's get right to it. Welcome Dr. Katie. Thank you for coming on the Detox Delima Podcast. So happy to have you here. I am honored to be here. Thank you for having me. So my audience was thrilled because I always do podcasts interviews myself. I come up with all of my questions, but with you, we decided to do things a little bit differently, and I love that we did. I originally wanted to have you on this podcast because I, well, one, I'm originally Tucson is like my, my original hometown, my family is from there. I was like, "Oh, she's a wildcat." Well, I don't know if you are a wildcat, but definitely Tucson has a special place in my heart. And when I saw you were a naturopathic physician who was doing holistic fertility that is also near and dear to my heart. I have friends and family and, you know, with women's six women now being having infertility issues, I think everybody is familiar and has been touched with infertility these days. But this topic is special with my audience because it's mostly women that are in childbearing years. And typically by the time people have sought me out on the internet, they have tried to get pregnant and are having issues and have done some googling on the Google machine, and have learned that there's some toxins out there that could be impacting fertility. So that's usually the phase in life that women find me and find my podcast. So you are perfect. And we got some amazing questions from the audience. I asked them, I said, "This interview is for you. We're going to ask Dr. Katie what you want to know." And they did. We got a lot of questions and you agreed that we would just do and ask the audience interview. So I'm excited. Yeah, I'm excited too. I know we got some really juicy ones. And we will do our best with what we've got and hopefully be able to guide people with some great resources at the end too. 100%. Well, first I want to give my audience an opportunity to hear who is Dr. Katie. Give us a little bit of your background what you do and how you ended up in this field. Sure. So I was born and raised in Tucson. And when I was in, I mean, I decided I wanted to be a doctor pretty early on probably around age 11 or 12. I remember I was in about sixth seventh grade. And when I was in college, I was very much, I would say, type a personality. Burning the candle at both ends, you know, 18 credits, honors, working in a lab, volunteering. I couldn't really try to stack my resume for medical school. And I started getting sick a lot. I started with a sinus infection. And then urinary tract infections that just seemed to come every three to six weeks for a year. And it was horrible. And so I was always at my primary care doctor's office to the point where they had this running joke that like, you should just have your own parking spot because you're here all the time. No, no, no, no, not when you're 20 years old. I mean, no one was that ever. But, you know, there, I was, I felt ashamed. So like, I couldn't figure out what this problem was. I was discouraged because, you know, here in a year, I'd been on like eight rounds of antibiotics. And my primary care doctor just, you know, she kind of threw up her hands. And it was like, I don't know what else to do with you. And it was embarrassing because she would ask me, like, are you wiping front to back? And I was like, oh, dear Lord, I have not gotten to 20 years old without not like knowing hygiene for cry it out loud. So that was a visit where I just, I walked out of the room, just like trying to hold the tears back. And her nurse happened to be passing me in the hallway. And she was one of those, like, highly empathetic people. And she pulled me aside into like another room. It's like, you are too young to be going down this chronic health path. You have to go see a naturopath, all of our patients who see one are healthier. And don't tell anyone I told you. I was like, okay, this is, oh my God, I love that. I had no experience with holistic medicine at that point. I had never heard of a naturopath. I was like, what a path. Like, what are we talking about here? And she like scribbled a name down. I went home and googled it. And it was like, oh, my insurance doesn't cover this. I don't like, you know, I was making like, I don't know, 9.75 an hour. I was like, I can't afford this. This is ridiculous. And then I just continued to get sick. And at a certain point, I was like, well, this has to be a priority. So I went and I saw this doctor. And even just that first intake where she asked such different questions, you know, questions about like, well, what is your stress like and how are you sleeping and what are you eating and what sort of personal care products do you use? And it just completely different approach. It was so compassionate. And, you know, we made a lot of headway to the point where within a few years, like I had not had deer and aridjacked infections or, you know, interstitial cystitis was the final diagnosis that I actually got. But the symptoms resolved. And it took work on both of our parts her understanding like what we needed to be testing for. But me implementing that and it was a team approach, which I found so refreshing. And so it just changed my perspective completely about medical school. And I was in that phase, like having to write my letters for applications. And I for the life of me just couldn't come up with like why I wanted to go to XYZ school. Like, you know, you make it pass like the first round and then you start going on your visits. And I was like, I just like, I got nothing. It's like the really wild. I thought was writer's block. And I was like, oh, maybe I don't actually want to do this. Maybe I actually want to be a naturopath. And I took a year off and I worked for a physical therapist. And I became a personal trainer and then went to naturopathic school. I love that story. So that was a long winded way of saying like, I'm here because I understand a lot of what your listeners have likely gone through in the Western medical system, you know, being shuffled around and not being heard and not getting a truly holistic individualized plan. What led you to fertility, to specialize in something that's very niche? There were a few, there were really three things that contributed to that the most. So first, I had come off birth control while in medical school. And I had just decided like, you know, I've been on this for eight years. Like, I don't even know why I'm on this right now. I don't know that my body knows what to do without it. And I just kind of wanted to see like if my cycles came back regularly or not. And they didn't. And after six months of no period, I went into my OBGYN and it's like, you know, I'm kind of bothered by this. It doesn't seem right. And she said, well, your labs are normal. So you could go back on the pill if it bothers you so much. It's like, well, but what happens when I want to have kids? She's like, well, are you trying right now? No, I'm in the middle of medical school. She said then, don't worry about it. Simple, that doesn't seem right to me because what if it takes years to figure it out and then I end up with infertility and she was like, "Oh, you're gonna be fine." Well, I, you know, I'm learning about this in school right now, like, you know, 15% of the population is not fine when it comes to this and it seems like if someone's not ovulating and if someone's not getting their period, maybe we should do the work before they try to get pregnant. So, and it actually, at that point, become like this irrational fear, maybe not irrational, but it had become a very strong fear that I would never be able to have children, even though I wasn't in a place where I wanted to try in that moment, I felt that calling to be a mother already at that point in my life. And I had always envisioned my future with children. And so I was definitely in like panic mode for that whole year when my cycles were not doing their thing. So, that was a big impetus for following the fertility path and then one of my best friends from college when I moved back to Tucson was just starting out on her fertility journey after being diagnosed with endometriosis. And then the first patient I had who got pregnant after we implemented all of our naturopathic things and stayed pregnant because she'd had miscarriages, was like that, okay, yep, this is where someone needs to be and I want to be that person to help. - How amazing that that was your friend? - Yeah, she's, she's got twins now. - That is awesome. Well, I am for one happy that you're in this field and I know that all the women in Tucson that have access to you are happy about it as well. So, let's dig into these questions. What do you think, you ready? - Let's go for it. - Okay, so you already touched on this slightly. So I think it's kind of the perfect segue. First question we got was how long should a woman wait to conceive after getting off birth control? I've read that birth control depletes your minerals and nutrients and there can be pregnancy and developmental issues because of that. - Okay, so it's a loaded question because we've got a big chunk of the population on birth control and I will start by saying I do not think birth control is bad. I think it's wonderful that we have a choice but often we're not given all of the information we need about our choices. So I was also not told that birth control causes nutrient deficiencies and they do, they contribute to vitamin B deficiencies and magnesium deficiencies as the most well studied but there are likely others omega-3s as well. And so I like to give people a minimum of three months from coming off the pill to actively trying to conceive so that we can really replenish nutrients and make sure that their cycles are regular and they can start observing the signs of ovulation. So if I were to map out like an ideal timeline for someone who is trying to conceive, I would at least give like six months in my ideal world. I realize that there are a lot of people who are working on alternate timelines and I always meet them where they are and explain this research to them. But if we don't know if someone's going to have irregular cycles or not coming off the pill, we want to give some time to regulate those cycles and the organ systems that have been impacted. So nourishing the liver because all its detox pathways have been working on those synthetic hormones and the adrenal system and the gut, those three organ systems are the most important to support when coming off the pill. And then as far as the called developmental issues, we need a lot more research on that. I don't want to stigmatize birth control and say that your child is going to end up with some sort of deformity or learning disability because you are in birth control. There's so many other environmental factors that I think are much bigger players in that that we can be paying attention to. And all birth control is a synthetic hormone. It does deplete nutrients. There's a lot of other things going on besides birth control. So I don't want to demonize that alone. We need a much bigger health picture beyond just knowing someone was on the pill. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think my biggest issue is the lack of informed consent that women get. I was on birth control for 10 years. And the only thing I was ever told about it was, it's totally fine and it regulates your period, which is not true. It turns off your period. And I didn't know that until I was in my 40s. I mean how ridiculous is that? And the other thing I was told was, when you're ready to get off birth, when you're ready to get pregnant, just get off birth control and then try to get pregnant right away. And so I think as a female population, we deserve better from our medical professionals. We deserve to be told, hey, this will deplete your nutrients. This will do this. It will take your body time to kind of turn back on those hormonal instincts to start ovulating again. I think most women don't realize when you're on birth control, you're not ovulating. Yeah. And so it's a disservice to women. We deserve to be told if we're going to make a choice about our bodies. We deserve to be an informed choice. 1,000%. OK, let's go into the next question. What toxin? I love this question. Obviously. What toxin should we be limiting? We'll try and do conceive. And she mentioned cleaners, beauty products, other things like that. Yeah. So I hope that they are following you and listening to your podcast and are open to coaching on this area because we can easily get overwhelmed. I have a number of things that you could avoid. But I typically will have people kind of just go through the list of like, what are they already using? I eliminate the things that I find completely useless first. So things like air fresheners, candles, fabric softeners. And I mean, I realized that some people find them useful and nice candle is peaceful. And an air fresher makes their homes smell nice. But these are all hormone disruptors. And they change our cellular response. And when it comes to understanding early fetal development and when a female fetus is forming her ovaries and her eggs, like we don't know the full implications of what these hormone disruptors are doing. So I'm actually a heck of a lot more concerned about someone who's been using glazed plug ins their entire life than I am with someone who's been on birth control for 10 years. So fragrance, fragrance-y products. Unless it lists out the exact essential oils that are in it, I will usually have my patients ditch all the fragrance-y things. So making swaps with their laundry products, their beauty care products, that have fragrance in them. And beyond that, then starting to look at like, well, what are we consuming in the way of plastics and swapping their plastic food storage containers to glass, their plastic water bottles, to stainless steel. And those type of swaps end up saving money in the long run. So I like to use sustainable swaps first. And then we start to go to, well, once you start running out of your makeup, making the swaps to the brands that are researched to be lower in toxins. Because that's where a lot of my patients tend to get overwhelmed as we start saying, well, like, get rid of your makeup, get rid of your shampoo, get rid of your plug ins. It's just like, it gets really overwhelming really fast, which is why I really value how you present information also. And so yeah, those are my big ones, are the fragrances, the plastics, and then making the swaps with the other areas in life. So let me ask you a question. Because I know you're probably in the medical community where you are locally. And I like asking this question, because sometimes my listeners want that inside information. What do you think the reason is that a woman who's experiencing infertility-- their primary care doctor, whoever they're kind of colleges, whoever they're working with-- when they refer them to fertility, specialist clinics, et cetera, they go, that why is this not a conversation? Why are hormone disruptors and advising women? Because the studies are showing that it takes as few as three weeks. If a woman completely stopped using these hormone disruptors, three weeks later, the amount that's in her bloodstream is significantly lower. So we're not talking about, like, oh, if you stopped using these products, and you'd have to wait five years, anyway, we're talking about the ability of a significant difference. And I think that now we know-- I mean, science has never settled. But in a very big way, there are thousands of published articles that these hormones disruptors do lead to infertility. And so why aren't fertility specialists or people on the Western medicine world talking about this? I wish I had a good answer for you on that. I have done my best to network with the local providers, local fertility providers. And I will say that we have one who's a lot more open-minded and over the 10 years that I've been in practice. I have noted that he has started talking about some of these things more. But it's also challenging for them when they're trained in IUI and IVF. And beyond the education that they're providing to their patients about what those procedures look like, a single physician doesn't necessarily have the time or the resources to be having this conversation with every single patient. And this is why I think collaborative care is so important and understanding where your own limitations are as a provider is really important. So I don't begrudge them for not sharing this piece of information. with every single patient because I realize that their visits are already full. I do however wish that they could say, "Hey, there's a lot more that you can be doing to influence this side of things and I want you to watch XYZ video or listen to this podcast or go see this provider who is trained to look at this holistically." But what I find is that there is this kind of complex of thinking that you do know at all and then they're just not having the conversations. And that's what I find so frustrating. Let me ask you a question. Would you love to know how to read a label without being super confused about what ingredients you should be avoiding and which ones are clean? If you said yes, listen up. This is for you. I remember being that person standing in Isles of Target trying to read labels and back then I had zero idea what I was looking for. I had a note a preservative was or an affoxylated ingredient. It was all like reading a foreign language. But now that I'm a savvy label reader, I wanted to create a simple way to teach you how to read labels without being overwhelmed. That's why I created a resource I know you are going to love. It's a list of my top 25 toxins to avoid and my simple three step hack for reading labels. It's not just any hack. It's the exact same method that I use every single day to review products and read labels and it's the same process I teach all of my students. With these three steps and a little bit of practice, you'll be able to tell within 90 seconds if a product is clean or not. I personally believe that everyone should have this skill. You can't be fooled by greenwashing and fancy marketing when you know how to look for ingredients you want to avoid. So whether you're just starting out on this toxin free journey or you're a seasoned pro, this information is so valuable. And here's the best part. It's completely free. Just head over to www.toxins2void.com. That's www.toxins2void.com. Grab your download and start reading labels like a pro today. Well, I feel hopeful that you have one provider. You've made a difference and maybe maybe there'll be more. Yeah, and I will say the embryologists are like the shining star of many fertility practices because they are the ones who regulate the lab where the embryos live once someone goes through IVF. And the lab conditions are extremely important. So all embryology labs are required to be fragrance free because we know that those toxins can create an oxidative effect and potentially damage embryos. So I think just the research on the actual embryology has been an important piece of influencing some doctors and having a conversation and having fragrance free offices will often get patients asking questions about like, oh, I noticed your office is fragrance free. Why is that? And then opens the door for a bigger conversation. But if my I've said this on several podcasts, if my life's mission could be to eradicate all fabric softener from the face of the planet, then my life is my purpose is complete. You and me, you and me, we're going to do that. All right, thanks question. I am 18 months into trying to conceive and I always hear that being calm and not stressed helps change helps somebody get pregnant. But how in the world do you do that when it's a cycle of disappointment? And what are some realistic ways to manage stress? And I just want to add to this that I now have multiple cousins close friends who've been through IVF, IEWIS and the hormones, the structure, the anticipation. I mean, that is the most stressful thing I've ever seen anybody go through personally. But I know you specialize in this. So I'm really interested to hear your answer. Yeah. There's no one way, but this is really an opportunity for self discovery. And it's a really hard punch in the gut for this to be like your version of self discovery. But you can start looking at it in that way, looking like, wow, how have I responded to this ongoing journey and other hard things in life? And it is stressful. We don't want to gaslight people out of that. Like it is hard, it is stressful. We get into this vicious cycle where people learn that stress might contribute to infertility, but like infertility definitely causes stress. So then they're stressed because they're stressed and then they're worried that their infertility is causing the stress. And it's like this vicious downward spiral. And if we don't catch people with the right resources, like when we do see research coming out showing that women who've gone through infertility have essentially the same level of PTSD like symptoms as someone who has gone through a cancer diagnosis and cancer treatment. And so that stress needs to be taken seriously and how difficult this life event needs to be taken seriously. So the first thing would just be like authentically express like this sucks. Like don't gaslight yourself out of this and use affirmations. Like everything is fine. I can do this. Like find help. Get the resources to get help. And this is another area where I also feel very frustrated that isn't just like built into fertility offices would be like a counselor who is trained in this. And there's maybe like two clinics in all of the United States and two in Canada who have built in counseling that essentially like every patient who walks through the door is referred for counseling because this is one of the harder things in life that anyone ever goes through. So I feel like that should be standard of care. I think so too. And so we've acknowledged that yes, this is hard and it creates stress and you are allowed to acknowledge that and you are allowed to feel crappy about that sometimes. In terms of tools that I use effectively in my practice. So I am a certified life coach and LP coach and hypnotist. So I have a lot more tools than the average bear for handling this and reframing problems and getting to the root of why someone responds the way they do to certain situations. Why someone can breeze through with you know positivity that this is all going to work out even after going through years and another person you know four months in is like my life is over. All of us have our conditioning. The reasons that we respond to life the way we do based on how we were raised and the culture we were raised in. So understanding what some of those influences are and then guiding people towards the right tool. So I use tapping or emotional freedom technique quite frequently but there is there are definitely ways of tapping that are more effective than others. So truly working with someone who understands how to do that can be really helpful. Meditation can be helpful. It can also be like a numbing device better than drugs but you know if it's truly accessing like what you need and acknowledging how you feel but then also guiding you towards feeling differently and that can be really helpful. Having a support system really knows how to support you. So it doesn't mean everyone in your support system has to have been through infertility and know exactly where you're going through but having a support system where people aren't just saying like oh just relax and it will happen just go on vacation just have a couple cocktails like no that is toxic unhelpful advice. So for anyone who might be listening and has been through fertility and wants to learn how to be supportive. He's listening and saying this must be really hard. How can I be here for you? I love that advice. I think that people need to hear that and I do think that they're well meaning. I think oftentimes people just don't know what to say. So hopefully they're listening to this and let a little light bulb just went off in their brain. Oh that's a better way to do it. Yeah and acupuncture can be extremely supportive for people going through any you know whether they're trying naturally or going through IVF is actually great research for both scenarios and so acupuncture helps modulate our stress response and that can help regulate the reproductive hormones. So what your ovaries are doing it's actually related to how you're handling stress and you know your body feeling safe to conceive. So acupuncture, tapping, breathwork, meditation these are all options. I wouldn't just make this list to go okay I'm going to do all the things because we're trying not to add to your stress. We want to see how what is the simplest path forward for you to get the best result and feel truly content about where you are in your life while also actively like holding this desire and continuing to make steps forward. It's a balancing act for sure. I was just listening to you and thinking how lucky your patients are. I wish they were there one for everybody. I love that fantastic fantastic advice. All right look move on to the next question. Does what I'm eating affect fertility? Are there any changes to my diet that I should make? Here's the thing. I waited way too long to get a red light therapy device and I don't want you to make the same mistake. It's been a total game-genie for me. A few years back. I had never really even considered or knew what red light therapy was. But I was doing everything I could to heal from Hashimoto's. And I found some interesting studies showing how red light therapy could help improve thyroid antibodies. And that really pinced my interest. But what sealed the deal for me was the research also showing that it could do so much more, like smoothing skin, reducing signs of aging, decreasing inflammation, improving digestion, and even increasing collagen production. So after diving to the research, I finally took the plunge and I got myself a loom box. And let me tell you why I chose loom box out of all the auctions out there. First off, the quality is top notch. This little thing is powerful. Its luminosity is higher than any other handheld device that I have seen on the market. And it's portable, battery operated, and it's versatile. I can use it anywhere, anytime, anywhere on my body. Whether I'm targeting my thyroid, improving my gut health, or just giving my skin a boost, loom box does it all. Plus, it's zero EMF and it goes through rigorous third party quality control. So I know I'm using something safe and effective. So if you're ready to take your thyroid health, your skin care, or just your overall wellness to the next level, you need a red light therapy device. Loom box is the one that I trust and it's the only one you'll need. And because I want you to experience these benefits to, I've teamed up with loom box to offer you an incredible $260 off. That is a 40% off reduction from the regular price. Just head to the link in the show notes to grab yours. Trust me, this is one wellness tool you don't want to miss out. Well, I don't know what you're eating in the first place listener, but food absolutely affects our fertility because every cell in our body is responding to these nutrients. And our food is essentially carrying messages, is carrying information. And so if we are eating food that is very alive, fresh vegetables and fruits and things that are as close to their original form as possible, we are going to get better information from that food. For eating highly processed food, food that has kind of been stripped of a lot of their nutrient value, it doesn't really offer us much. Yeah, it gives energy in the form of calories. Like you will stay alive eating this food, but it's not thriving food. So as close to what I was into like a whole food type diet as possible. And then from there, we have to customize it based on the person. So in general, like a Mediterranean style diet would be compatible for most people who are trying to conceive because it is high in antioxidants, it's high in healthy fats. It has a quick protein from eggs and fish and a little bit of dairy and a little bit of meat and beans and nuts and seeds and lots of veggies and you know, keeping food as fresh as possible. So that is what I would aim for. I mean, I do customize quite a bit around my patients who have no dietary concerns for religious or ethical region reasons and they're not eating animal products. Then you know, it's not impossible to get pregnant for someone who is vegan or plant-based, but there's a lot of modification that we have to make to meet the needs and the demands of a body to get pregnant. Like this is a state in which our body needs to feel an abundance of nutrition. For sure. I love the way you describe that. I often, because you know, I have kids and trying to teach kids about good nutrition when they live in the world, their friends or you know, eating chick-fil-a all the time and they wonder why they're crazy, hippie mom, whatever they want. I explain to them, you know, when we go to the grocery store, you know, everything on the outside of the grocery store is alive and that's exactly how I describe it. I think that grow with things that, you know, we get from animals, things that are truly alive and have those nutrients and the energy and then the further in the store you go, you're just eating dead things. And so when you eat dead things, you know, you might feel that first of energy from all those carbs or whatever is in it, but then you kind of feel dead afterwards, right? Like your energy is depleted, like you and it was an interesting light bulb moment and so I love that you just made that same analogy. Yeah, and I also want to stress because I see so many people come in saying that like, oh, they saw so and so coach and they were told to go gluten free and dairy free and focusing on avoidance is not the vibe when it comes to healthy fertility diets. Unless someone has a very real reason autoimmune or Hashimoto's or something really specific that we're working on and there's research to guide us towards that particular modification, but we want to focus on what do I need to be getting more of? And what I see most commonly in practice people need more protein, more healthy fat and more antioxidants in the form of fruits, veggies or spices. 100% agree with you. All right, ready for the next question? I'm ready. All right, this came from actually somebody I know. She said any advice for trying to conceive well breastfeeding without weaning. So she has, I will give it 22 month old and has not gotten her period back yet, but would like to start trying but no period. Any advice? Yeah, and I was actually in this position too with my first and I don't think I got a period back until 28 months. And so you're not alone in that some people's bodies and this is very individual on whose body is going to respond this way. Some people's bodies are just like I can only maintain one extra curricular thing at a time. So breastfeeding still has pretty high demands and even if it's only at nighttime or only when they first wake up in the morning is pretty minimal. Some people's hormonal regulation system is just identifying that alone as like we can't do these two things at once. Now, if you wanted to play with that a little bit and you're really attached to the idea of continuing to breastfeed through pregnancy or tandem nursing when you have both children, then again, like coming back to nutrition and making sure that you are absolutely getting enough calories, enough healthy fat, enough protein for your body to be able to say like, oh, I am good. I am safe. I can do all the things. And in our hustle culture, a lot of women have dealt with, you know, diet culture. It's often the case that I see women who have just undernourished and they maybe have been chronically for years even before they had their first child. And so that was me for sure. I don't know what my body would do if I ever tried for a third while breastfeeding number two still. But I was in the same boat and I had to be like minimally like I think we were down to like every other day once a day and my cycle's finally returned. But it's just a very individual scenario. Some women will catch the first ovulation after breastfeeding, but I would again bring some attention and some awareness to your nutrition and make sure that you are getting enough because pregnancy and breastfeeding is a time when nutrient deficiencies often develop too. Fantastic. Good bye. Hopefully for that friend. Yeah, me too. Keep us posted friend. Okay, next question. This one is also known who this is from, but it's personal. So I didn't know I had ashy motives. I knew I had hypothyroidism, which is why I had infertility issues. And I feel like I was one of the, I say, lucky ones because rather than having unexplained infertility, which many women deal with where there's really no answers that they can find from their fostered medicine doctors, I was told, well, you have hypothyroidism. And so there was a quote, unquote, fix for that. And then I was very quickly able to get pregnant after the fact. But I didn't know that it was autoimmune. I didn't know that it was hashy motives at the time because back then doctors didn't test for that and actually still don't, but cashy motives and other autoimmune are becoming more and more and more prevalent. They're exploding, especially in America. And so the question specifically is, what is the most important thing to know when trying to conceive with cashy? The most important thing to know about it is it is not just a hypothyroid condition. It is an autoimmune condition. And it does not mean someone can't get pregnant or won't get pregnant or stay pregnant, but it means we have to be looking deeper than just saying, here is a pill that has thyroid hormone in it. And it's going to fix all the problems. Because we know that thyroid proxeteris or TPO antibodies have been found in the follicular fluid surrounding the egg. So it can affect egg quality. And there's an increased risk of premature ovarian insufficiency in women who have hashymodos. And we also know that TPO antibodies have been found in placental tissue. And so they could potentially be indicated in really pregnancy losses. So working with someone who has a very good understanding of the immune system and what potential triggers there are for that individuals, hashymodos, so that they can reduce their immune system reactivity is a really important piece of having a healthy pregnancy being able to carry the term. But it's very individualized. Like with my hashymodos, I'm definitely very chemically sensitive. And so the worst I've ever had was when we had that huge fire here in 2020 and they were dumping flame retardant on the mountain 24/7 and I live five miles from, you know, where part of that fire was. And, you know, even running air filters 24/7, like there's no way that you can avoid being exposed somewhat to that. So, you know, two months later and I started feeling just terrible and retested thyroid that I hadn't tested in maybe four months and sure enough, like my antibodies were through the roof for the first time ever. And so that was very interesting and enlightening experience to go like, "Ah-ha! It's not gluten for me!" It's chemicals. So everyone has potentially their own individual triggers and working with someone who can help sift through that with you. Like, DIY-ing this stuff is really overwhelming so I would not recommend that. I totally agree. It's interesting you say, "We all have bio-individual triggers. Mine is gluten, which I was not aware of." And I didn't go gluten-free because of my Hashimoto's. I went gluten-free because my husband was gluten-free and it was more of a. I was supporting him and through supporting him, which was a very nice thing I needed to do, because gluten-free things do not taste the same. And I had to go through the phase of eating gluten-free things and then realizing how terrible they're ingredients were and then trying eventually kind of not getting fake gluten-free bread or fake whatever, but actually truly living more of a gluten-free life without the fake stuff. But I was shocked how quickly I felt better. And my inflammation went down and my antibody started to fall and I was like, "Oh, dang! Oh, okay. Well, I guess gluten is definitely a. it for me." I wondered about gluten for myself for years and years and I. I experimented quite a bit with gluten and it's a good thing I could run my own labs because I would go gluten-free for six months and retest my antibodies and then add a little bit back in and retest. And I do notice that I feel better without it and I think it's more related to just my own gluten and a lot of processed foods. So. Yeah, 100 percent. Well, that's convenient. You could do your own lab. Nice. I don't have to, you know, be that strong advocate anymore because I can just say, "Oh, yes, my doctor was okay with ordering these." I don't recommend DIY-ing it, though, guys. No, no, no, at all. I, you know, the thing you'll hear me say on the internet and on my podcast is, "Test, do not guess." Yes, like that is a thousand percent. And for me, there are so many people on the internet selling, "Take these five supplements and cure your Hashimoto's. Do this five step process." And everyone is so bio-individual. Everyone is so different. Your needs are so different. Your nutrient levels are so different. You might have something completely different for root cause and you're trying to fix something that's not even broken. And women are spending so much money. Buying from these people and I just, it makes me crazy. "Test, do not guess. Find a provider. Find somebody that you respect and that you trust that can look at things holistically and can give you true guidance." Yeah, definitely. Okay, thanks question. Trying to conceive for over a year and don't have means for IVF, which I think is a lot of people, right? You, most Americans don't have $30,000 and most insurance companies don't cover IVF. And I know there's work on that that's trying to be changed. But for right now, it's still not the norm. And this listener is desperate to get pregnant. What would you tell someone like her before borrowing money and jumping into fertility treatments? Are there any magic supplements, which I think we had a perfect segue? Sure did. No, there's definitely no magic supplements. This is also very bio individualized. Like, why does someone have infertility in the first place is a really important thing to start with? So gathering that history, like does this person have regular cycles? Are they ovulating? Are their tubes open? What are their partners sperm doing? We haven't talked about them yet, but they're really important. That's 50% of the DNA here. And they're really susceptible to environmental toxins. So, you know, if we were to create a plan for everyone, it would include establishing like, what is your nervous system doing? Are you, do you have support for stress? Are you sleeping well? Are you getting enough nutrients in your diet? Are you avoiding all of these toxins that we know affect hormones? So starting with those basics that we talked about earlier in the episode. And then getting holistic help from someone who can test for the things that could be impacting fertility. So I have a lab guide download that we can give to your audience that I use for. It's like my starting point with labs, but it's a lot more comprehensive than what people are going to typically be getting from their PCP or a fertility provider who is looking at everything through the lens of IVF. Like, is this person a good candidate for IVF? I'm going to test these three things and find out. If there's so much more going on underneath the surface, so we talked about thyroid. So we want a complete thyroid panel. We're not just looking at TSH because that's just one hormone coming from the brain. It's not telling you what the free floating thyroid hormones are or if someone has antibodies. We're going to test for inflammation because that can be a driver of stress in the body and that could be reason the body doesn't feel safe to conceive. I want to look for nutrient deficiencies like vitamin D and iron and folate because those are really necessary for healthy like really every step of from ovulation to fertilization to implantation to early fetal growth. So there are a lot of pieces that we may need to be looking at to make sure that someone is even ready to go through something like IVF. But often once we put all those together, they don't need it. Yeah, I would absolutely love to provide my audience with that download. I'll go ahead and link that in the show notes. Thank you. I and I have a whole episode on thyroid and the labs that you need. There's a download also that somebody can take to their doctor and say, I want a full thyroid panel. So I think this is important because women will typically go to the doctor and say, can you run my labs? And the doctors like you said will only do very specific labs. And so this is where women need to advocate for themselves and ask for the things that they want, especially if they're going to a provider that's not more functional or more holistic. Yeah. And you know, there are some great people who are able to work online. I would definitely use discernment, understand like what their credentials are because there are coaches who have no credentials. There are coaches who are physicians who also have coaching certifications who can work with people online. I work with people both one to one and in group program and will also have like a self study option starting later this year for people who need these resources to be accessible. But they can't spend $15,000 on something. I wouldn't want someone to jump and die of the F if they haven't been given these other opportunities to heal their body in the first place. So either way we need these foundations in place. And there are lots of opportunities to do that with online programs and coaching. So there's hope. 100% and I think discernment is important. Like I already mentioned, there's a lot of people on the internet prescribing things to people in mass. And really people need, you know, people like you, your physician, your own life coach, you have the skills, you have the certification, you have the experience. And I think that it's really easy for people, you know, just like people stay on the internet and do want to make a million dollars overnight? Sure. Well, also people who are like take the supplement and get pregnant, right? They're manipulating the public and it's very sad because women especially in that moment are very desperate. Yeah. And I have clients and customers of mine that have come to me and told me how much money they have spent on supplements. And when my first question is, well, should you have your labs run? Like what were the reasons? Oh, I bought them from so and so that has a podcast and I'm like, yeah, when you start adding up like, you know, the TikTok and the blog posts and the podcast recommendations and then near neighbors cousin who did whatever. There's, it can add up really quickly. And then it starts to add to the overwhelm too. And this feeling of like, well, I'm doing all the things, but nothing is working yet. It's like, well, you're doing all the things, but are you actually doing the things that are right for you? And we get so disconnected from ourselves, just I think is, you know, part of what our society is really good at doing. And then this journey is so difficult because it really strips people from what they feel like their purpose was. And they're like, well, if this hasn't happened yet, this is even my purpose. To become like an identity crisis. And so you throw all the things at the wall to see what'll stick. And then this person saying like, I am desperate to get pregnant. Well, then it's time to do things differently. Okay, well, we're only down to two questions now. Right. That is so bad. I feel like there's so many ways in the branches we could take the conversation. But okay, next question. I've had my FSH tested and it was 14 last cycle and then this cycle is 59 and I don't know the age of this person. She didn't give up on me. She said, "What gives with this and what can I get?" Oh, well, we would want a lot more history for sure of age and does this person have thyroid hormone issues? It was there something really stressful that happened from one month to the next or actually even like three months earlier because that final maturation process of the egg is about three months long and so if something happened three months prior to when this lab went haywire, I would be very curious to hear that because FSH is this will back up and talk about that because I know a lot of people don't even know what FSH is. It stands for follicle stimulating hormone and it comes from the anterior pituitary, which is the little thing that dangles off the brain and it tells the ovaries essentially like get this egg ready to ovulate. So on cycle day three, which is usually when they test FSH, it should be the lowest that it is throughout the cycle. It's like this baseline and then throughout the cycle it gets higher until ovulation and then it starts to come down and so I'm also curious and I like, "Well, I would hope that they were testing it on the right cycle day but if they tested that second FSH, righted ovulation?" Like, yes, it's going to be higher because that's it's like final pop up along with LH to get that ovulation going. So I would be looking at, "Did anything stressful happen? Is there thyroid hormone issue? Is there age compatible with the possibility of premature ovarian insufficiency?" Unfortunately, the Western standard is to give someone that diagnosis if they've had an FSH above 25. I've even seen clinics give it to women who have an FSH above 15 and that creates a lot of stress for a woman to see that number, hear that from their expert to say like, "That number's not a good sign." It's saying that the ovaries aren't responding. That egg is not emerging this cycle in the way that it should and therefore the brain is screaming at the ovary to get something going. I wouldn't be able to tell this person what this means because I don't have any other context. I don't know what their estrogen level was or their LH or their history in general but it's definitely worth further investigation and a conversation with their doctor about what their options are and what does it mean to have a high FSH? Well, and it's a good point about timing as well. I know in my experience, I eventually found that I had estrogen dominance. My ratio was really terrible. So working on my liver health and all of those things, I think also contributed to working on my Hashimoto's other than gluten-free but so many people that I know that go and ask their doctors to run these tests and they'll message me on Instagram and they'll say, "I'm getting all of these things tested. I'm going right now." I was like, "Wait, where are you in your cycle?" "What do you mean you're going right now?" Didn't your doctor tell you there's a specific, you know, "No, they just didn't say that." I'm like, "Well, then your test is going to mean jack." That is not helpful. No, it's not. People who have wildly irregular cycles, like, yeah, obviously can't really time it in that way. You've just got to gather at a few different points to try to create context, but if someone does have regular cycles, yeah, you need to have that specific day to understand what that communication is. I hope this person is able to get better answers. All right, last question. I saved it for Alaska. It's a big overarching culmination of all the things that you do and all the patients that you've worked with over the years. What are the main changes that your patients make that have led to a successful person? Because we take such an individualized approach, I would not be able to just round off a list of, like, here are five things that you can do today. I think the most important thing that we help people do right off the bat is help them listen to their intuition because there are going to be a lot of options. Hopefully you have a lot of options being presented to you and not just you know, you can do donor eggs because you're after like, there's always other options. But just looking at this from a place of, yeah, there are a lot of things that are being presented to me is like, I should take this supplement or I should use this diet. But if you don't actually have the ability to tune in to your intuition and your body to understand what really feels right for you, it's going to be a much longer road. And you know, some of the stuff we've already talked about reducing talks and exposure, making sure you're getting enough healthy food, sleeping, being sure you have a support system. Like, those are instrumental for everyone. So I would say like, if we had to pick a few things, like that would be it. But what does a healthy diet look like? It's different for everyone. What changes are you going to make in relationships to make sure that you're having supportive relationships? That's going to be different for everyone. So I can give people that much and hope that the least go throw out their fabric softener tonight. At a minimum, that's what you learn folks. We agree on that. Go throw it out. Okay, I love this and I adore you. Tell all of my listeners where they can find you, where do you hang out, where they can communicate with you, support you, follow you, maybe binge some of your things. I know you have a lot of things on your Instagram that are binge-ready because I did it. And then how can people work with you? Oh, thank you, Wendy. The feeling is mutual. I was so excited to be offered a chance to come on and talk to you. So I am mostly on Instagram at Dr. Katie Rose. And you can also find me on my website, Dr. Katie Rose.com. I need some updates because we're pretty busy. But in terms of what they can binge, you know, if I have webinars or workshops or master classes going, I always tell people on Instagram, I always tell my email list. So I would say first things first, head to my Instagram, follow along, go to my link in profile and opt into whatever. Juicy freebie, I have going on whether it's a lab guide or I have a three day fertility series that you can learn lots from. And they can work with me by a Sunday meeting DM. And right now, by the time people listen to this, I will have probably very limited one to one openings because again, like you mentioned, one in six couples are dealing with infertility. So I wish that wasn't the case, but it keeps all of us fertility experts pretty dang busy. So for that reason, I have a group program offering and we will be kind of chunking things together in a way for a self study option to be ready in the very near future. I love that so many options. Thank you so much for being here. And I also want to say thank you for doing what you do because I feel like you are representing the best of women in the field right now and women need women like you. So thank you. Well, that was like heart explosions. Thank you. And I'm sure I want to have you back. I have so many ideas for even more conversations, but thank you for being here. You, my friend, have officially finished another episode of the Detox dilemma podcast. And if you want more, head over to wendycathorn.com to get all the show notes and links to discount codes from our amazing partners. If you're looking for something specific to help you detox your home, make sure you check out my toxin free shopping guide at toxinfreeshoppingguide.com. It's organized by Category and makes detox in your home simple. I'll see you next week. And until then, I hope your life is getting just a little less toxic.