A Gathering at St. Joseph's Care Group

Welcome back to Schickend Weepbot Dawn, Indigenous Medicine Stories. I'm your host, Darrell Manitwabi. Today's episode features participants of an elders and healers gathering hosted by the St. Joseph's Care Group in Thunder Bay, Ontario. This is the second time I've had a chance to visit with the St. Joseph's Care Group. After gathering, I had a chance to speak to Ron Linclater, Brenda Mason, Randy C. Wamp, Peter Sanna Wamp, Natalie Messinna-Giezig, and this is what they have to say. Kuchichingen, Donji, Winnipeg, Indaya, the men who went to M.J. B. Go and M.O. Go. That language I'm learning is Nishina Behmun, and I'm around Linclater. My traditional name is Karibu, man. I'm from Kuchiching, First Nation. I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and our clan is Karibu. Mm-hmm. Megwech, Ron, so we're at a gathering of healers here in Thunder Bay, and I wonder what your thoughts are on the importance of tradition or healing in the indigenous community. So Thunder Bay is on the homeland of the Fort William First Nation in Nishina Bech people, part of the Robinson Superior Treaty. And I was raised here. Our late father relocated us here from out west, where my mother is from Treaty 6 territory, and moved us to Thunder Bay, Ontario. Those days was called the Lakehead, or Port Arthur Fort William, but we grew up here, and we set our roots here for many, many years. And it's just such an amazing. to come home, I call this home, because we now have grandchildren that reside here, or son, or daughter-of-law. They're going to live here, they'll grow up here, because this is where they were born. Whereas my wife and I are now living in Treaty 1 territory in Winnipeg. But yeah, that's an amazing event that transpired Friday night, and two days of amazing healers talking with physicians. And I am so blessed to bring our nine-year-old nauseous, our grandchild. She really liked hearing what she said, and she was able to learn some of the language and speak in her own language to the group, and then hearing the old people say how they're so happy to see your young people. That's part of that netizen, that's part of that getting well, that our people are experiencing today. What are some of the challenges that healers face based on how you've seen? In some of my group, I was fortunate to sit in with three First Nation physicians, yesterday's group. And we could hear it from a professional perspective, and one of them described how they were trained in a very unique way. It's kind of a neat way, when I think about it, because in our language we might call that "wap tem goje" and "dem one", so why people's thinking? And that's really how they got trained in their medicine. And it's based on how one of my late grandfather's talked about it as a syllogistic learning. And there's nothing wrong with that, that's something that two legates discovered and developed. And if it was bad, our two legate human beings would have got rid of it, but they didn't. And that's what our physicians have been learning from. But there's the other kind, which is what our healers are about. And we call that "Anishinabe in Endemowant", which is Indian thinking. And these are First Nation physicians, they could relate to that. So one of the concerns they expressed, I agreed with that, is as First Nation's healers, and as First Nation's physicians, we too experience unbalance. We too can experience pain. We too can be lost in balance. So we thought maybe there should be places that we can gather almost, I see like recharging our batteries. And we get that through our songs, we get that through our medicines, we get that through ceremonial sites. And I heard about Dreamers Rock. I heard that one of our physicians' father was part of that. And the way she described it was like he was there with us. He knew what he experienced in the late 1990s in a good way, and that we want to continue that. What are some of the take home messages that you will take when you leave from here? It's always been protocol. It's always been based on trying to live as my late father described and brought us up. He brought us up here in Thunder Bay area. My mother is going to be turning 83 next month in April of 2025. She and him taught us his beautiful life. And my mother is Plains Cree, Treaty 6. So they hit away, and there's how that language they speak. But we're so blessed to have one nation teach us some amazing beautiful values and language at the same time, immersing ourselves in anishinaabe perspective. And to be part of anishinaabe territory, this area that we're situated here in Thunder Bay, that's anishinaabe people from 1850, Robinson Superior. So while I take ways, I'm going to take away this idea of we have to keep continuing to follow protocol. The little things like having Osamaha offerings, like the one you gave to me, that's powerful because that allows me to, in a good way, to bring in what spirits are guiding me, what medicines are guiding me, what kind of energies I can bring in a good way. And life is very short, it's precious. You know, I can't believe it. I was talking to a young gentleman I met this morning. I knew him when he was a little boy, and he's in his early 50s now. And he still remembers me. It's just like he's a little boy talking to me when I was younger. And his mother is a very esteemed elder here in our territory. This is her First Nation Territory. That's his First Nation Territory right here in Thunder Bay. But the women play a significant role. The men, the Xunai, and in the wug, we need to heal as well. And we've inherited harm from what happened to our family. And both my parents are residential school survivors. So growing up, I never heard this. Growing up, I was taught ways that are healthy way it comes to parenting. And I'm so happy I didn't pass was on to my son because I see the way he engages with his daughters. And it's very loving, very caring, very supportive. But it came close because it could have easily happened. So that's what I'll take away is the teachings I've learned from our other knowledge capers, the protocol, and it's a beautiful, beautiful idea of healing. Do you have any final thoughts to share with our listeners? I would encourage that we are now in a time that's unprecedented. We are now in an era where we have allies. We have other non-indigenous entities, I'll call them agencies, etc. That are open and really supportive in what we're doing. It aligns with our prophecies. What's occurring now, there's an old, old, beautiful woman. Her bumps went, local land, so bumps went. And she's been making films since I was a little boy, even before I was born. And I heard her talk in Winnipeg about eight, nine years ago. And they asked her, is this the eighth fire in? And she looked around the room. And she said, how many of you guys are physicians, a whole bunch of people raise their hands first age? How many people are lawyers, a whole bunch of first nation people? How many graduate from universities, a lot of us raise their hands. And she said, we are in a fire. We have achieved that. That's beautiful to hear that from our old people because they're going to go home eventually. And then you and I are the ones going to be leading that. And I feel good about that. I really feel positive. I feel confident. I feel energetic. And being here for these two days plus the Friday evening where we had the pipe story, we lit the pipes that all aligns with all my years have been learning. And I just want to keep on learning. I don't know a lot. But I learned so much and I give it back. Ron, do you wish for sharing your wisdom with us today? Me, go ahead. My English name is Wenda Mason. And my English name is Mamasina Gojarao Bainkewer. And she couldn't even do them. And I was angry and I don't say. I don't come out. So my English name was translated into English. In print, thanking, standing woman. And I belong to the fish clan, Red Sucker. I was raised and signed a lake. But I'm in the tender base of my home today. I've been here for over 40 years. So it's my home today. So I work. I've been doing my work for a long time. I've been in the health care. I went to health for 33 years. So I started in 1991. And when I started, I was hired as a system social worker. So I did a little bit of social work. But I also started walking with the elders. So my work evolved into providing traditional healing. So I, like I've mentioned, I've been here a month and a half. So I've been doing traditional healing in traditional therapy. Utilizing our teachings, the medicine wheel, the song that was teaching. So I've worked with many, many people over the years. Did a number of other traditional healing. Do certain activities based on how many powers years ago? It was at the guidance from the elders for us to do that. So we did that. And during my work, we had an elder that was working with us. They gave me a full-time job. So I walked with him for a number of years. And as you can see that I was being trained in a traditional way to do my work. And on the seventh year, he sent me out to go to my work. So many of the elders that I walked with him, I would say we wanted him to have passed on. But I still connected them to the spirit to talk with them still. And I still remember their teachings, their guidance. So I was hired to do social work. But I kind of went off track and writing the traditional healing. Utilizing the gifts that was given passed on to me from the elders. It wasn't easy to do that because we had barriers. You know, there was a lot of racism. So having started at the OPH, and then moving to a central care group, the governance was transferred from Minister of Health, the OPH to St. Joseph. But I don't know if I was too stubborn or too naive. And I never even taught to give up. I never even taught to change a job. I stayed within my work, and then I saw and realized that, but it was actually my mother. And when I tried to explain to her the work that I was doing, and what she told me was, "Me and Agmin go in and give them some energy. That's why you were given that work to do here. That's why you're here." But she also told me to hang on with them. She told me to be cautious. She said there are people that would be people that would want to hurt you. So I always tried to be mindful of that, what she cautioned me. And it wasn't just, you know, who isn't just my mom. The elders always cautioned us to walk and be careful. And just, you know, walk with the always-be mindful to be respectful, no matter what. You know what's going on. But it was not always easy, like I mentioned. Bringing our traditional way of healing with our people into a huge institution, given a psychiatric institution. And I just kept going, though, and kept talking and sharing. And after a while, even with the elders that came there and shared and started doing sharing circles. But they never gave up. They didn't stop, and then they gave me the responsibility to continue with the sharing circles. I did that. Just kept going. But I was getting a lot of racism as some people would not be nice to me. And I followed one of the elders' guidance. He told me, "Keep your head up. Just keep on walking." And just smile. You know, and I thank God that I, I think the Creator, that I followed the elders' guidance. Because today I do that. I know I'm strong. You know, and the people that were not being nice to me, they actually smile at me today. And that was my way of healing within myself. So when I see racism being directed at me, it doesn't bother me anymore, because I know who I am. And I'm strong in who I am. And I stand strong in that way. And I also recognize that what they say, not in a good way, that's their issue. It's coming from them here, you know, and they also let me know where they're at. So one of the other elders said, "Pray for them." So I do that today. I pray for them. But there are some things that change and change when I did my healing. The racism, it's not they went away. I'm just maybe not seeing it anymore, because it's the way I see myself today. But I see it be, you know, without the people. So that's how I try to help our people and tell them, even the youth, be strong in who you are. And when you go to institutions that attitude doesn't exist and be aware of that. So when you walk with your head up and walking straight and just being strong in who you are, it's not going to have to. I do your circles outside of my work. This is the same guidance I give them. What the elders guided me, I passed that on. Do you have another question? Yeah, I do. I just were here at a gathering of healers in Thunder Bay. And you started talking about this, but can you speak more about how a traditional healing is important in the Indigenous community? You talked about circles that you offer and you met people here. How do you see a traditional healing being important in the Indigenous community? I think what I'm going to say first is that when we say traditional healing, I think about the practices that we do, the spiritual practices. I didn't go up with that. I was raised as a Catholic, so I went to church. And growing up on my under reserve where I come from, I didn't see those spiritual practices that we see today. And that we're part of today. I didn't go up that way. But I used to hear stories about my grandfather, the gift that he carried, and how he used that gift to help his people. I used to hear those stories about my grandmother, as well as my mother's side, my grandmother. I also used to hear stories about how strong they were as scientific people. And so I didn't go up that way, but it wasn't until I moved to Thunder Bay. I used to hear about those practices that it was bad, that it was paganism, and not the bother with it. I used to hear stuff like that, but when I moved to Thunder Bay, when I started to walk in with the elders and started to go to ceremonies, I soon realized that what I heard was not the truth. Because I learned different things about the Creator, or going to church, or the Catholic. And then I learned, again, a little bit different about the Creator going to ceremonies. So when I started going to ceremonies, I felt that I was not judged, and I was not bad, you know, kind of thing, and that I was actually a good person. I started knowing that and believing that, then I went through my own healing before I actually really did the work myself. So I went to different ceremonies for me, even though the ceremonies that I went to, some of them were done in a different way, with different protocols and practices. But for me, the content well was common, was that it was the spiritually-based. And that the gifts that were being practiced and utilized were passed on from the Creator through our ancestors. And so it's how I learned, or I came to know, to have that insight. And then when I started walking in this way, I had to have a sense of the insight of what those teachings were, what it meant to me, and how it healed me. And so, through that, I started sharing my experience of healing, and started learning more about the medicine wheel, just about a quarter of teachings. You know, I was a helper, I became a helper to the elders, and I went to sharing a circle for a number of years, and also attended a sweat lodge for a number of years. I ended up attending sweat lodge quite often because I became the helper. So I observed, and I saw how things were done, you know, plus doing the work. Looking for rocks in the deep snow, that was a lot of work. Getting sent out there is to find rocks for the sweat. So it's kind of work that we did. It wasn't just me, there was other people, but we did it together. And one of the things I loved doing was getting wood for the fire. So I go out there, you know, and gather wood, and carry it on my shoulders to the site, you know, and I love doing that, and then preparing the sweat lodge. You know, and I had to experience those before it and do my own work. And then also, saying to the creator, "Okay, I'm willing to do this work, but I also don't want to hurt people. I don't want to miss people." And so I really had to explore how I lived my life. And the teachings that were passed down from our elders is what really helped me to walk in a good way. I've made mistakes, fallen, but I always get up again. But it's my grandchildren that encouraged me to get up again when I fall. You know, but the one thing I was doing, if I didn't work out, then I have to explore again how it's going to work out. Instead of saying I made a mistake, because sometimes I kind of put ourselves down. So I said, "Well, I did that, I didn't work out too well." So now I've got to go back to a joint board and find out to do it a different way that's going to work out. I've done that a number of times. So what you're just hearing to me is knowing who you are and exploring and reflecting how you're going to walk your life when I found my Earth. And the gifts that we have today and how you're going to use that, you know, what I think I use in this weather. It's really cold, you know, that winter. It's freezing out there and if my client has gone through a really heavy, dirty session, we go outside. And I tell them, "Face that wind." And let that cold air hit your face, put your arms out on the side. Let that cold air hit your face. It's going to help you. It's going to bring you back to the present. And that usually happens. And what she did that, they were going to run back to the car. I've done that with the youths, you know, and it changes them. We bring food as well, you know, and so we'll sit in the van and jump in there and get all warm gags. They're all talking away and eating, you know, and there's a bit of excitement happening. That was so different when we arrived there. And so one of that, to me, that's the traditional healing, it's what we do. But there are many, many different ways. If you don't connect with one way, there's another way that you can try, that you'll probably be connected to. It's what touches you. I've gone to ceremonies where, "Wow, you know, this is really good, you know, and I'm glad that I was part of it, but it's not my cup of tea." You know, that kind of thing. But it's really good, it's helping a lot of people. I think we are finding ways that what you think connected to and to be okay with that. Just because that way didn't work, it doesn't mean anything. It's not your own or anything like that. It's just not that part, it's just not for you, that's all. But there is a way, another way, another traditional way that you belong to or connected to. So we're at this gathering of healers, you know, many people like you that have had the same kinds of experience. What has that been like for you and what are you going to take home from this gathering? What are you going to leave with? It is good to know, to hear the stories that I've heard in the last couple of days, and how they share where they're at, what's going on. And many of the people that spoke or even the people that didn't speak, there was a type of energy that I felt I was there, that we're all together. And we're here for each other. And so that makes that circle strong. And so it's not just what is said, it's what it's felt. And from that Friday, when we began with you, with the ceremony right up until now, but you carry that with you. And I will carry with me what I heard. I'm not going to remember everything today, but as I continue to reflect, I will remember pieces here and there for me to reflect on. But the big message that I got is that we are not alone, and that we have the same thought how to find a way for us to work together from the North and the South. You know, in one of the groups that I was sitting at was said, I didn't know what was going on on the North. You know, now I know the person said, and what we need to share down South to bring those two together. And so we need to look at the four directions that all of us come from. And we need to find a place where we can all gather to share with each other and keep each other strong. I think it's bringing our people together, the healers to me, everybody is a healer. And it's somebody standing there and not seeing a word they're praying. They're listening. They're presence and they're like in my prayer, I said the other day. "Megwetch Mug. I'll be signed. Show them a shank. Your presence is blessing us." That's what my mom and dad used to say. "The visitor here, you're blessing our home with love." You know, and that's how I felt that it's a visitor that I came to tell me they're blessing us with their presence of love. And that's what I felt. And that's what we need to do to each other. We need to demonstrate to our youth how we are strong. But we need to do that from the four directions that come together with all the First Nations people. And to continue doing our work and not to rely on the government anymore, "Hey, we can do this. We can do this without the government's help." And maybe then the government will start, some of them will start coming to us or help. But even more so when they see us, they will start to stand up together. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. So we're coming to an end or visit here. Do you have any final thoughts to share with the listeners? You know, one of the guidance that I got from an elder many years ago when I started doing my work. I got worried. I told them, "What if I make a mistake or what if I mislead people? I don't want to mislead people." And what guided me that day, what you said was always speak from your heart, share from your heart. And so I started doing that to share from my heart, to speak from my heart. And ever since I started doing that, I don't worry about whether I made a mistake or not. Because I am speaking from my heart and I feel from my heart. So when you're healing a holistic way, you start to trust your intuition. You start to trust yourself. So we learned to do that. I've done a lot of workshops and were the years and shared a lot. I don't do PowerPoints or anything. I go stand in front and I just speak. And that's what I've been doing is following the guidance that I got from the elder. But the thing is, we get the guidance from the elders, but it's up to us how we carry that out. And you need to trust yourself to carry that out in a good way. So when we hear things, you're going to connect with something else and something else, maybe not today, maybe tomorrow. But to reflect what you've heard and to pick pieces here and there, what you're going to carry in your heart when we move from here. And we don't do a closing ceremony. I don't. What I do is buy them up and tell them next time, because we carry on the circle from here. And we carry on what was going on here by sharing and reflecting, especially showing what they use. You know, just what I heard the others say. And I heard the story at the other gathering that I was at. And I was just so sharing, but sharing from your heart to carry that on. Brenda, Bane Mappi, me a question for sharing your wisdom with us. Oh, how? You got that by Mappi. What's going on here? I'm a traditional healer. I've been working with traditional medicine and ceremony for the last 25 years. I'm 51 now. So, you know, it's a lifetime of learning. And then I started following my grandmother around when I was a little boy and watching her harvest things. And she was also a midwife. So it was, it was a family thing that not very many of us have taken on that role in the family. I was one of the ones that was chosen by spirit, I guess, because I've just had dreams and it's used to see things when I was a little boy. And I really held onto that stuff and it kept me safe. And then when I first ran into a swat lodge, I was about 13 years old and then I knew what I was going to do with the rest of my life. I have more in many hats. I did go to university for about three years and then I also had a renovation contractor business. And I had one day I was in the middle of university class taking Aboriginal studies and I had a vision. And as a vision, these spirits came to me and I could recognize some of those spirits or some of the teachers that had showed me the things of medicines and some of the ceremonies. I said, "It's your trip." And they said, "Let go of everything. Let go of it all." I said, "Well, look after you." So I withdrew from my third year of university, I withdrew and then I gave away all my construction equipment. Because I already had some of the teaching since I was 13 years old. This has been rated to my 20s now that I had to take this role on as a medicine person. Somebody who carries medicine, somebody who carries ceremony. And they said that they would look after me. And you're going to be well-known and you're going to have people from everywhere come and see you and you're going to be invited to many places. So in the two years after the vision, I was really poor. I really poor. I actually had to sleep in a narrow star van. I would rust it out all the van that my aunt had given me in the summers I would sleep in there. And I was so rusted out that I had night when I would go to sleep, I would kill all the mosquitoes. And then by the time I laid down, there would be 10 mosquitoes back in the van so it would be buzzing around, right? It's funny. And also speaking to the poverty, I was eating probably a big mac or a quarter pounder. A meal once a day, that's how poor I was for the two years. And so the odd community would phone. And then one day I had some ceremony, brothers of mine that wanted me to come east to a Sundance. And they were going to utilize my services at the Sundance through healing and ceremony and handing out herbal medicines. And so there was two years to the day that that happened. And so I had a friend of mine because I didn't know how I was going to get to the Paul Manitoba where I was supposed to meet the Sundance maker. And I had that air star van. So I said, said to my friend, come with me and I'll give you this van. And you can take it home and it's yours. I'll give you a sign registration over to you and it'll be yours. And so I said, okay. So he brought him in his couple of daughters. They were in their 20s already. So there was no children there. And we went to the Paul. And then they dropped me off and then they took the van home the next day the tires fell off that van. When he got back to Prince Albert, so the van was to be living on La Ville or yeah, spiritual love. So it was it's a funny story because from humble beginnings, right. And today everything that was foretold about how the ceremony and the medicine would look after me and my family. And that's where I am today. I haven't stopped in the last 26 years of working with ceremonies. All I do, we have to answer our calling. Has Aboriginal people of Canada, not even Canada. Sometimes I don't like to use that word, but we're forced into it. It's a ski, the earth, right. And it's those grandfathers and those grandmothers that choose sometimes your role in what you're going to do in this life and this living realm that we have. It's human beings. So you've been able to see, you know, traditional healing in community like from the driver's seat. And from that view, how would you describe its importance in the community? Like what does it mean to the indigenous community traditional healing? Well, there's still a lot of stigma behind traditional healing and the practices that we do, the ceremonies that we do in some of the healing methods that we use. The people that come for the medicine and for the ceremony, you can see that there's a mix of a positive impact in their lives where I take the Sundance, for instance, that's a life-changing experience for some people. Sometimes I'll do shaking tents and I'll do tie-up ceremonies. Those are different ceremonies, but those are life-changing and life-altering ceremonies for people. And they can see that the gifts and the power of the ceremony that has that they can relieve you from pain, they can relieve you from emotional pain, mental pain, spiritual pain and physical pain. And you can see that there's growth and there's in a way that people are finding their path, their walk. There's always that internal feeling of what you should be doing in this life, right? And a lot of people will deny it and a lot of people will go another way where they become something through Western education. And they still feel that there's something missing. So when they connect with that spiritual part of their life, then they found themselves, right? And so this is how we try to do things in communities, is to bring that to the schools, we bring that to the young people. I really push the training, it's really, really important, not only the Western model of education, but the Indian education that had been outlawed up until 1954, since the 1876 of the signing of the Indian Act, right? It was literally outlawed, so we weren't allowed to harvest our medicine, we weren't allowed to conduct sweat-lawed ceremonies and practice any of the culture up until that time. So they literally tried to extinguish what we are as Indian people. But now the resurgence is happening and there's a lot more youth attending ceremony. There's a lot more grandparents that are actually opening up to the idea of allowing their grandchildren and their children to accept the creator into their lives and the spirits that work with Aboriginal people. So you're here at a gathering of other healers and so, you know, what has that been like for you to meet others who do the same kind of work you do and what are you going to take home with you from this gathering? Well, one thing that I didn't feel is evil in that room downstairs, say that we were in lots of times when there's a many healers coming together, there's too many chiefs and not enough Indians, right? And so there I didn't feel it downstairs, of course, you know, I like the fly under the radar anyway. And so I took a lot of good things, especially in the circles that we did and the communication and the ideas we had and the questions that were presented to us were answered well. And they had some really good answers and a really good cooperation with each other and complementing each other's ideas and initiatives and just a willingness to help our people right across the country, right, right across the island, per se. So that's what I've taken from it and I've made some connections with other people and not all ceremony people carry medicine, they carry ceremony specifically. So some of those people in a way what I found in my life is that traditionally healers come to me for medicine and I am really humbled and honored to at least help where I can with that. And it's nice to connect to more communities and that's what I found is that I have to reconnect and to connect with some of the people downstairs and people southern Ontario as well. I think that they're looking for authenticity and real healing and real human beings that are willing to go out of their way to help them. So I hope that answers that question. Some things you think they might benefit from knowing from the perspective of the experience you've had. Well, you know, we talk about introducing Aboriginal healthcare and ways of healing to the mainstream healthcare systems and that the audience and whoever is willing to listen is that it took me about 20 years between 15 to 20 years to earn a title of ceremonial man or medicine keeper. And I dedicated my life to that process. I even went as far as withdrawing from a guaranteed paycheck of having a degree. So when we take all that training in the 2015 to 20 years and I still continue training, I'm still continuing to learn through spirit, through vision, through other healers, different methods. And that's a lifelong thing. When we talk about the amount of years it takes to become a traditional healer, 15 to 20 in some places 25 years and sometimes it's a lifetime for others. So we have to learn about spirituality and all the spirits that work with us and the good and the negative spirits. We have to learn how to counter the negative with good stuff. We have to learn to read people in their state of mind. What's their thought process? We have to learn where they are emotionally and then the physical aspect of medicine as well, right? So when you learn all four aspects of the human condition and you go into this field of work, you have to have master's degrees and what you're doing. Like a professor has to have a master's degree to teach at the university level. So we're teaching at that level. So when I say the four aspects, it's psychiatry, psychology, physician, and also when you go to study religion, you have to have, you have to be a master at that as well. Theology, right and stuff like that. So the Indian education has to be understood the same way as a university education. We may not have a piece of paper where we do have good experience and excellent experience as a matter of fact and how to help people, how to deal with all those four aspects of human condition. You know, don't be afraid to seek that out. Don't be afraid to call yourself a Nishnabi or either, that's my language, my pre-language does a human being, right? Don't be afraid to, there's nobody out there that's going to ridicule you more than when you look in the mirror and ridicule yourself and to put yourself down. Unless you, the only one that matters is you how you feel about your personal well-being. Everybody else is just along for the ride. Migwetch for sharing your healing wisdom with us here today. Okay, welcome. What's your name? My name is Krzuhar and I come from Vicktrade Lake in my, Deer Sennwapiti, when they call me Deer Sennwap is my name, my English name. So we're at a gathering of healers here in Nathunder Bay and what are your thoughts on the importance of traditional healing in the indigenous community? The importance of traditional healing, you know, in community. My perspective of community is different because I come from up north. We're totally because of flying community so I could speak on behalf of that. Traditional healing helps in all aspects of life, the mind, the emotions, the spirit and the body. And, you know, traditional healing, the ceremonies, help you put a focus on things that you need in your life or your menoplasis in. Good life helps you achieve the goals that you need for yourself and to help heal the trauma you have gone through in your life. And, the reason I say these things is because I'm, I don't do lots of life experiences in my young life and without traditional healing I would not be where I'm at and seen in other communities, up north and treating nine. See, how much traditional healing has done for them like helping people with cancer or diabetes or high blood pressure, the medicines that we use to help ourselves and also how powerful smudging is. I think it was much to help us suicide or stress or depression. You know, that's just a little bit I could talk about how traditional healing has helped me and how I saw it and being used in community. What are some of the challenges that you see that are facing traditional healing? Up north in some communities, it's still seen as double worshiping. It's not accepted in some communities where some families may practice in that community and the rest of the community may be Christian or some communities may be fully supportive of traditional healing and maybe some Christian people or some people may do both. And there's not a lot of supports up north or traditional healing. There's not a lot of us in the north that do traditional healing is only like in my community, there's only probably kind of about 15, 20 of us that do it out of 1400 people. Even in Maapikika, it's drivable over there and there's not a lot of people there either. So we're not that big as traditional people in the north. So it's hard to practice traditional ceremonies, you know, tobacco is pricey and, you know, like getting wood for this, what lodge is costly and black of support, like human bodies as I mean, like it's hard to do ceremony in the community and feels like all odds against you when you try to do stuff. It's for a bit cause and that's just some of the struggles in up north. So you've had a chance to come to this gathering and you've been surrounded by healers and elders and knowledge holders and ceremony. There's really, my mascara is amazing to be part of this and seeing my elders here having their support, their love and kindness from everyone in here inspires me to keep going. Love all my people, my friends, my relatives, you know, even, you saw a good day, yeah, I really love the elders and carrying that love and kindness back home and spreading it. And sharing the work that the St. Joseph Care Group is doing, I know it's very inspiring, makes me feel like I'm not alone, sometimes I do feel like I'm alone. But thing working together will help strengthen the healing journey towards our people here. Anything that you think is important for them to know? The most important, I guess, is you know, be involved in the ceremonies, sit and listen, don't interrupt. Always have the back when you have a question. You know, I tell my non-indigenous coworkers, you know what I usually do when I don't want to offend anyone, I'll have my tobacco and I'll give it to a person and I'll say, you know, I'm not trying to offend you in any way, but I want to know what this means. I tell them, never ask why, always ask in a kind way, you know, what does this mean? You know, and sometimes, you know, even not asking what it means because that meaning will come later. And this elder told me, as I was giving tobacco about the dream and stuff, and he says, I don't remember if he gave my tobacco back to me or he kept it. But he had that tobacco and his honey, you know, I want to say something to you. When you're giving me tobacco to ask for the stream, and you know, and yet you're getting an answer for the stream, that's how you're going to live your life, expecting answers, and you're not working towards those answers. And that kind of, he's kind of scolding me, lecturing me, but I didn't see it that way, you know, I was like, in my mind, I'm like, wow, that's, in my, I wasn't offended either, I was like, wow, that's a beautiful way, you know, same thing with creator. When we get tobacco, they get, oh, what's, what does this mean whenever we're not working towards those, those answers we're expecting it to get an answer whenever the best way I get explain it is like, as I get demanding for that answer. And that's not how indigenous way of life works. You have to work towards those things, and you know, gain that meaning of that answer later, and that's the best advice I could get to people, you know, when you want an answer. You have to work towards it, you know, if you dream of something, let's just let it put your tobacco down and whatever, or you see an ego, or you see something odd, you know. And that's how I do it, how I live my life, and that's how I, I learned so much. Ever since that time that Euler told me, he stopped asking, why, or what does this mean? I just let it be. So, yeah, that's the best advice. I mean, what's your deeter for sharing your wisdom with us today? Oh, me got you. My English name is Nelly Mezzanigisik. I grew up north of Thunder Bay, but however grew up in Thunder Bay, I grew up in a small community called Collins, and I now live in Canora, Ontario with my family. So, we're here at a gathering up healers, and what are your thoughts on the importance of traditional healing in the indigenous community? I think it is important in communities, but again, it's dependent on which community that you go to, right, in terms of traditional healing. Because I know some of our people don't follow that way, but I think it's still instilled in their hearts. I know many people that are indigenous, but they still know where to get the medicines, right? My thoughts about the gathering today, it was a really good turnout. It was nice to see all the dealers that participated, and I know if they had more time, you probably would have got to know the majority of them, right? And the sharing that happened and the ceremony that happened, it's just like, it's a way of life for us when we have cultural gatherings in this way. Again, it's those gatherings and ceremonies that we do are part of traditional healing, right? What was it like to be here with other healers coming from different places and elders coming and having ceremony and being all a part of that? What was it like for you to be a part of that and what are you going to take with you from this gathering? For me, it was amazing. For me, I always feel like a little girl learning from the elders that share their knowledge and also affirming the work that I do. But hey, you know, I'm not doing so by and after all kind of thought, right? Like I'm doing okay. And I think that I'm going to take away from here is that when things I was thinking about earlier was we need to continue to work together as elders or people of ceremony, right? We need that, that continued support from each other. And the other thing I was thinking about is mentorship because we're all up there in age. And then if we don't start mentoring the younger generation, you know, they won't be able to pick up the gifts that are given to them through spirit, right? They won't have that opportunity is what I'm always thinking about. Like for me, I'm always mentoring the young people to get confident in the way that they are as a missionary people, right? My other takeaway also was nice to see familiar faces to meet up collectively in this one room, right? And also was nice to see young people to be part of because I think we need there's always a gap there. It seems between the older people and the young people. And I think we need to get them together as often as we can. I think that's it. Do you have any final thoughts to share any final words for our listeners? Culturally or in any way? You know, things that you think they need to know about, you know, your like experience. And if you can give them some ideas for them to think about, do you have some of those that you like to share? In my own life experience, I guess it hasn't been easy from the beginning of time when I was born until I was about nine years old. It was very challenging. My mother went to church. My father was a healer and I grew up in both worlds. And again, it wasn't the perfect family. That's where my trauma comes from. I think there was abuse in every category in my family life, right? Emotional, mental, spiritual, physical and sexual abuse. And within my family. So that's how I ended up in Thunder Bay because I went into care. I became a crownwort. And there again, I felt that I didn't fit in, right? The non-native people would pick on me because I was in Ishinabe. Then the Anishinabe youth would pick on me because they thought I was acting white. So I felt like I wasn't part of, and also with the belief system, the church way and the cultural way. Because I used to pray that my dad would stop what he did to us. I used to pray that my mum would support us a little bit more than she did. And both religions never answered my prayers. So I became resentful or not believing in any type of religion. And I ended up going to court for a long time. So many disappointments because now at the court, the verdict was not guilty. There again, I questioned the justice system. I've been standing here for 12 years, going to court, reliving the same old traumas and things that happened in my family life. And the court doesn't even believe me. So there again, that was a bit of a disappointment. So I found something that made me, I always felt really, really bad. Right? Like I was damaged goods, I was ugly, all these things because of what happened to me. Right? And so I found something that would make me feel better, which was drugs. I started using drugs at the age of 16. And it made me feel better. It made me forget everything. Right? Back then, there wasn't as many services for youth that we have now. Right? Back then, even sexual abuse was like, you know, you can't talk about anything, right? Back in the 60s and 70s, it was kind of unheard and afraid, or you don't talk about it. So when I started using drugs and alcohol, and also I was very angry because of what was going on. So what I did in order to channel that anger into something else is I got into sports. It took me a while to get into sports because again, I was initially not able to know what I wanted to do, but I played basketball. I played ringette, and I also really liked swimming, high diving. And in my mind, I'm telling myself, you know what? I'm going to teach these kids. I'm battered in them. You know, where I'm just as good as them. So I played hard. And this is where I challenged, I mean, channeled my anger. Right? And I loved playing sports. I got trophies and some ribbons out of it over the years, but at that time, they didn't mean anything to me. Right? I think I got shuffled around about five or six times in foster care. And foster care, some of the homes that I was in were not very good, right? And the last one I was at, I should have been there in the beginning, it was amazing. I had an amazing experience with this couple that took me in. I was like part of the family all of a sudden because in my heart, I really missed my family. My biological family, I wish I could see my mom and dad. I wished that my parents would change, right? So I can go home. I wish that I could see my siblings, right? But again, I was not allowed to go anywhere. So when I was placed in that home, you know, I grew up with Ukrainian family. And there were almost like the relief systems, almost like in Shnappa, two things that they do, and they accepted me for me. And they, they took me to Powow's, you know, anything that was happening in regards to native ceremonies or something. But it was me. I didn't want to go there, right? Because of my experiences. And there are certain places I was told not to go, one of which was Canara, Ontario. They said, don't go to Canara. And one day I found myself in Canara, and I believe that's where I found my life. I started off as a business lady thinking this is my calling. And then I went back into culture because in culture, in ceremonies, and the elders I, I connected with at the time, they accepted me for who I was. They never judged me or nothing. And I could go to them all the time, right? And they said, you need to pull yourself together because you are a gifted person, they told me. And I'm thinking, eh, up, you know, because I was a young person, didn't really believe, right? But the more time I spent with the elders, and the more times I followed in their direction, right? Go fastings, I'd go fastings. Go do this, so I would go do it, right? Myself esteem about myself became better. I didn't like being a girl for one thing because I felt that the women were weak because of the way my mother was treated. You know, that I should be a guy, right? So the elders in Treaty 3 taught me a lot about being a woman, right? And the teachings of the women, right? The protocols of being a woman and so forth. And it really intrigued me, right? The way the culture was, the way they were. You know, there were rich people, you know, they were barely making it and so forth, but I would always run down to the sweat lodge and set it up for them, right? Get things ready. That's what I did for eight years. I got things ready, ceremonies ready for the elders because I was in rich, either, right? I'd walk down there, you know, because I had no car. And so that's why I always say I'm eternally grateful for the elders in Treaty 3. They saved me. I really believe that they did. And that's where I have my family now. I have two sons and a daughter. Right now I have five grandchildren and one great grandson. I feel blessed. I no longer use drugs because I'm following men of the matter. The last time I used drugs was 1985, right? I just didn't want them anymore because I found this new way of life, which is the cultural part, right? Learning about me, right? So, and also learning to be a mother, right? I had no clue how to be a mother. I just copy cat through my friends. But with the elders helping guidance, you know, I think I did okay, right? Because my kids don't use drugs and alcohol like I did. I mean, they're good at what they do right now, right? So, my mission after having experienced all that, right? My mission in life has been to inspire and empower women and men, especially the youth of who they really are. Inspire them to reach their own potential. Despite what goes on in the past, how dark it may have been or how dark your life might be today. You can change it if you have that commitment to yourself that, hey, you know what? I don't want to do this anymore, right? I want to change. I want to be a better person. And that's been my mission not only for myself, but for my children, my grandchildren, my great grandson. I have a reason to live, right? So, I work really hard and I also lead by example to my family and people around me, right? You know, because there is not so good people, but, you know, I have to make that commitment to live by the seven grand for all the teachings. I'm not perfect, but it works for me. So, I think for the listeners, you know, my advice would be do what works for you, whether it be culture, whether it be religion or whatever else, right? Whatever works for you, whatever makes sense to you, whatever makes you feel good about who you are, right? You don't want to go for it. And you won't get it right away. It takes time, time to get to where you want to be, where you want to go. It takes a lot of time. But again, I had this attitude as a young person. I had an attitude to say, I don't need anyone in life. However, everybody, right? I don't want to do it myself, because I've gone so many disappointments in life, right? But when I went out of that healing journey, when I started meeting up with the elders in Treaty 3, I found out that I can't go on this healing journey by myself. I need people in my life. I need counselors. I need teachers to teach me something, right? I need doctors to heal me. I need ceremonies to balance me as anishinaabe person. I need many people in my life to stay on this healing journey that I'm on. And there is no graduation ceremony at the end of it, because the healing continues for the rest of your life, learning continues for the rest of your life. I don't know everything, right? But again, you know, it's for me, yes, I can't sit here and lie to everybody that my life has been great, right? It has its ups and downs, even though I don't use any more and stuff like that. It has its ups and downs. People come and go on your life. There's many losses, right? Many changes in life. But again, I always reach out to the people that will support me. To me, that's important. My support system. There's people out there that are very supportive if you just look, okay? Mm-hmm. Thank you for listening to this episode that featured participants of the St. Joseph's Care Group Elders and Healers Gathering in Thunder Bay, Ontario. The next episode will feature Vince Payways, who is the founder and executive director of the White Buffalo Healing Lodge, which is in Shwananga, First Nation, and South Central Ontario. I would tell anybody, there's nothing that you cannot do if you put your mind and your heart to it. The elder told me, he told me this a number of times, the longest distance you're going to have is from your head to your heart. And now, when you can work from your heart, then that's what you need to do. Thank you for listening to Indigenous Medicine Stories with your host, Darrell Manitwabi.