A Dose of Deception

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a left one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-720-334-Support. Happy dating! Happy dating to Dr. Smunde! Jinx, you owe me a Coke! Hi everybody! They say Jinx, you owe me a Coke, but if you're under the same roof, you owe me something out. I don't know. Girl, I don't know. I was going to say, that sounds like something your son says and he's got to keep teaching us the coke. No! No, no! 6-7! Sorry. Oh my god. Don't bring that back. Anyway! We have an interesting story for you guys today and I think the most interesting thing for me is how the commonalities between a lot of our guests and this guest and how do narcissists and these dogfish take the same courses on how to be dogs? I think so, because this is just, it's one of those stories where you're like, you know that people do this and yet every time it's hard to believe, but the gaslighting is on another level so her name is Ivy, she's got the best attitude about this, so I'm excited for you all to hear if you are going through any kind of relationship ups and downs, perhaps a breakup where you're like, there is no way I'm ever going to feel good again. I feel like she would be the perfect friend to talk to because she's going to make you feel like you can, you can get through anything. So a big fan of her. Speaking of that, I really want to thank our audience for being so gracious and kind and respectful and loving. Thank you for supporting us in our show, but also for supporting our guests and just listening to these stories, just helping other people feel like they're less alone helps us heal and get through some of these things. So we're so grateful for you, thank you so much. And if you want to get more involved with the Daily Detectives, there are a couple of ways to do it. One, we're always accepting your stories, so you can email stories to investigate at the datingdetectivespodcast.com put in the subject line a little bit about what your story is. So don't just say like dogfish story, because like give us a little bit more. So our producer, Molly and Kiva have an easier time going through it. And then you can bullet point, you can write it out, however, even if it just feels good for you to write it out. You can just send it and be like, I don't know, I just, I just needed to vent and then we'll reach out to you if it's when we can move forward with. We get a lot. So if we don't reach out right away, we're sorry, but we are going through them and all your stories are important. So yeah, and just know that at any time you share your story, a lot of people think, well, I don't know if this is crazy enough. These stories don't have to be crazy. This is about real life scenarios. And we just want to be a platform and an ear for you. And again, the more people hear these stories, the less alone they feel. So thank you for sharing. Please don't hesitate. And also join us on Patreon. We have the new tier for several months now. We have the $5 tier, which is, gives you two bonus episodes and some more one on one time with. Yeah, community time with me and Hannah. But the $9 tier, we call it the girlfriend experience. It's like the ad free listening. So thank you to all of us. Thank you to all of our current Patreoners and sleuthies. And we encourage you to join the Patreon and just continue to support us. Thank you so much. And then social media at dating detectors podcast to all of the places. And you can like comment with each other. I love when you find each other, you'll hear in the story. You need your community. So yeah, find it with the sleuthies. Yeah, let's give it to Ivy. Hi, Ivy. Thank you for being here. We would like to give you the floor. We would love if you would take us on your journey, please. I'm at my ex about 10 years ago. We were both going through divorces. I was going through my first divorce. I have two boys. I had no plans on ever getting married again. My kids were eight and 12. I went through my first divorce. We just grew apart and it was just time to move on. I moved out of my house in May and at the end of June, I actually met my second husband. And how'd you meet? I have a hair salon and he was doing work there. He's a plumber. So I had some sink set broke and I had a friend who referred him to me. And we just hit it off as soon as he came in. We started talking. We're both going through the same thing. And that night I decided to ask him out and see what happened. So we pretty much were together every day since then. I know. Oh, so it moved that fast? Yeah, it really did. I mean, I didn't introduce him to my kids for like a year. I guess that every day was the day I did not have my boys that I would hang out with him. And yeah, we just we just really hit it off pretty fast. A year is a good amount of time. Like that's a long time. And that's. But especially after the role. And they're going through a divorce too. So. And especially eight and 12. Oh, yeah. I was in no hurry. My youngest took it really hard. So I was in no hurry to bring, bring someone else around them. Plus I didn't know if I ever wanted to really be serious with anybody again. I felt that. Tell us about like the early days of this courtship. It was good. We went through a lot because he his divorce was kind of ugly, but we had we had a great time. We go to football games, we would go to plays, we would do something fun every single weekend. What about him made it okay for you to jump into your relationship because you just said that you were like, I don't know if I'll ever get married again. I don't care. And all of a sudden now, were you ever like, wait, why is he making me change all of my? Yeah, for sure, but he just, he made me so happy. We'd love to do everything together. We just, we had a really good, a good thing for a long time. So we, we dated and then we finally decided to introduce all the kids together. He had three and I have two that took a long time for all the kids to get along and they were, they're all pretty much the same age. So it was, it was a rough ride there for a minute. And then finally our oldest, his oldest was going to the military and we decided to get married before he left. So that he could get married? I really didn't want to get married. I was happy just living together, but he did not want to live together unless we were married. And at that time, I was paying a lot of money for health insurance, so we decided to just go for it. I truly thought he was my soulmate. I thought he came in my life for a reason, so. Were you already living together before you got married? Nope. And together till after we got married. Oh, okay. I have a question, but maybe, I mean, I know hindsight's 2020. Were there any red flags? I mean, there were many red flags the whole time. He had another kid, two of his kids are a month apart and so obviously, you know, he had another woman for a long time and so they were two different. Yep, but he was, he's a trimmer. He just act like he could change and people change and that was the past in his life. He really truly seemed like this great person. So he was open to talking about it. Oh, yeah. He was very open. He didn't try to hide things. He was open to everything. Everybody thought he had changed when he met me. Everybody thought he was this great person. Even his ex was so happy for him and us, he's not like that with you. He's so different and we really, everybody thought he changed. Alrighty. Okay. So you get married. We get married and things are great. I really thought I had this great marriage. He was never mean to me. He would do everything for me. He definitely treated me great and he still worked during this time, like he maintained his job and everything. Yep. He kept his job. COVID happened. You know, I came home for a little while. I was home. He still worked. He was still going strong, getting out every day and then a few years in. We're probably like, well, it's probably like three or three and a half years in, four years and maybe, and he just flipped a switch and all of a sudden he came home one day and he wasn't happy, but it wasn't me. He was going through something. He didn't know what it was and he needed to figure himself out. Wait, so like everything was fine, even keel, like normal life and then one day he just came home and it was different. One day he just came home and it was different. Wow. All of a sudden, he needed his own friends and my sister had had a baby that we were kind of helping take care of when he was little and it was his idea to actually help her out for the first year. He started showing resentment in the, yeah, okay, that was like, oh, well, we just have him all the time and I want to go out and I want to do this and he roughed football. So he would go out with the guys on Fridays and stuff. So I was like, what are you talking about? What was going through your head when he switched up? I was just super confused. I had no idea what was going on because it wasn't like us. We were so close. We were the type who sat and snuggled on the couch every day or made dinner together and went on vacations and yeah, we had literally just bought a camper on a permanent site and a lake. That's a big deal. Like right before that. Yeah. And that was supposed to be where we would go hang out and then that next summer he just left me there pretty much the whole summer claiming he had to work and yeah, it was a switch. So he switched up with you? No. No. Emotionally it was heartbreaking. Like I said, I truly loved my husband. I loved him with everything I had. And I-- I thought he felt the same about me. So when I felt him pulling away, it almost make me feel sick because I'm like, what is going on? Like I was so, I did not even understand at all. Were the skin. - Were you blaming yourself like, what have I done? - Well, yes, I was blaming myself because I'm a very open person. So I would always tell him what's bothering me. And he wasn't, he would always hide everything in. So I'd be like, please just open up to me. Like, give me a list, write it down. Because at that point, he'd be like, oh, it's not you, but, you know, everything you do bothers me. So I'm like, well, tell me what bothers you and I'll work on it. But he could never give me a specifics of what bothered him. Just everything I did bothered him. You know, I, I talked to him a certain way. One time he told me, I go, give me one thing, one thing that I've ever done to you. And he doesn't drink, so one night we were out and he was like, I don't know, probably telling me to not drink anymore or whatever, which I barely ever go out anyways. But I was like, okay, dad, you know, like calm down. And so that was the only thing he could come up with. This is the one time I called him dad while we were out. - So he was grasping at straws? - Yes, yes. So I got him to go to marriage counseling. How did that conversation go? - I begged him pleaded for it to go to couples therapy. He had already been in therapy himself and he wanted me to go to my own first. He's like, guess we should go to couples therapy but you need your own, you have your own issues, you need to work on. So I would go there and even with her, I'd be like, I just don't understand what's going on. And I'd be like, but I don't really think my husband would ever cheat on me. I don't think that's him. I really think he's going through something, but things aren't adding up. And then finally, I made an appointment and we went. And the first couple of sessions were good. At first I thought it was going okay. He would talk about things like he all of a sudden I had like ED problems and he was going to get, you know, - Like a reaction for that. - Like a child dysfunction? - Okay. - So, but then he would turn it around and blame it on me like if I was the problem. You know, I was one causing him to have issues. He would tell me, he didn't feel like I was attracted to him and I'm making it weird because after a while I was trying when it's not working, it is awkward. And he would act like I was making it awkward to him. And it was going to the doctors, getting medication, but then he went take it and I was like, that's weird. Like why wouldn't you take it? - Mackenzie, we both love a deal. And I just learned about it. - Say less. - Yeah. So, and we're both a little bit rebellious and I just learned about rebel. Have you heard of rebel? - Oh, yeah, I have heard of them. Actually, they, I just, I mean, this has got to be new. - Well, it's great. It's the place to go where you get the brand names you actually want at prices that are such a win. Like literally up to 70% off. So you don't have to choose between the brand you want and the price you want. It removes the trade off. And there's constantly new fines dropping all the time. There's always something worth checking for. And it's a very cool concept. Basically, it just buys returns and overstock from direct brands and has those relationships so that you can get the actual high quality great products that you want at a better price. - Oh my, I like this. - While they last, that's the one thing. It's the kind of place where it's like, you wanna be checking to make sure you're getting those savings up to 70% off, like I said. Well, the fines last. So it's really fun, honestly. It makes it kind of fun to get those steels. I'm obsessed with that. And if there's nothing better than getting a sale. There's Caraway, Nespresso, Ninja. Literally, I just open to the Hot Deals page. There's a eight piece cookware set from Caraway, 51% off. - Oh, oh. - Are you kidding me? - Your next favorite find is waiting at FromRebel.com. F-R-O-M-R-E-B-E-L.com. Top brands in home, baby, and outdoor of to 70% off. Go check it out before it's gone. And don't pay full price again. Go to FromRebel.com, F-R-O-M-R-E-B-E-L.com. Home, baby, outdoor, and more. All add up to 70% off. The brands, you already love. Da-da. (dramatic music) - So when this started happening, you're three years into being married six years together? - Probably four and a half years together. - Okay, so you're with this guy several years. - Four and a half years married, sorry. - Four and a half years married, we're together for like seven and a half years. - Okay, so you know him pretty well by this point. And along with him kind of saying these things and blowing up at you for no reason, what was his age? Like is this, was it, where maybe this could be like a mid-life thing that guys go through? - That's exactly what I thought it was. And that's what my counselor would say too. Like, oh, you know, guys, do go through something. When, I mean, he got so bad that he'd be like, just not go me. I don't know what's going on with me. When we go to bed at night, he'd be like, just, just hold me. - So during those times, did you, did you feel sorry for him? Like, oh man, he really is going through something and I want, I can, I can help him. - Yeah. - Oh yeah. I, because I really truly thought I had this great person. And so I started opening up to people I work and telling them, I don't know what he's going through but he's going through something. So like I said, I got us right in a marriage counseling and I was like. - Was he going to individual counseling as well? Like you were both doing individual counseling? Okay. - He was going to individual, he had been an individual. - Okay. - I was just, we had met pretty much. - Which is a big flag. - Unless he's compulsory to either. - Right. That's the problem. Because then at first started, he would tell me that his first, his counselor, she was telling him, like, if I don't stop, he's going to resent me and I'm like, what did I even do? Like, I didn't know I would be. - And did you have any moments that were the same as before during this period? Were there any signs of the old person you knew? Oh yeah, we went to Florida. I got to go visit my one son and we had a great trip. We talked on the way there. I'm like, things have been so awkward. I don't understand what's going on. We had this great trip and then we were on our way home and my phone had died. I was looking up the directions. I had a sitting on my knee. So I was like, well, let me just see your phone. So I can look up map quests or whatever. And he was like, why? He got all weird and was like trying to find it on his own phone and I'm like, I'm pretty sure I can handle Google just him your phone. So I hand it over and I looked it up or whatever I put it on my knee and probably a minute in, he grabbed it and put it in the middle. And I was like, what are you hiding? I was like, what are you hiding? I was like, I know you're hiding something. - Yeah. - And he's like, no, I'm not. You're crazy. Like, I don't know what you're talking. I'm like, you're hiding something. Like, what is it? So we got a huge fight in the car. We ended up getting over. He had apologizing. Like, I don't know why I did that. That was so dumb. It's not really even that big of a deal. Like, if you have my phone and like, yeah. - Yeah, 'cause now he has had time to go to the bathroom and delete whatever text he had in there. - Exactly. So once we got home from that trip, I think I waited for him to put that phone down. I waited and waited. And finally, he fell asleep on the couch and left his phone sitting in the kitchen and I went in there and I picked it up and she texted right then and there. So I ended up picking up the phone and I heard from the wrote the number down real quick and then I went out on the couch and I said, hey, wake up. He's like, what? And I said, who the fuck is Madeline? And he was like, what are you talking about? You're crazy. I don't know what you're talking about. What do you mean? I'm like, you don't because she just text you that her daughter's in the hospital. So I said, get out of my house and I went in the bathroom and I started screenshotting everything on his phone. Like, I took his phone and I hit in the bathroom and started screenshotting and he's like, just give me my phone, I'll leave, I'll leave. So I said, okay, so I literally threw his phone down, broke it into like a million pieces and gave it to him and he can leave. Period. Okay, so I wrote the number down real quick and went start screenshotting. Well, when he left, I wrote the number down wrong. So now I'm trying to call every single digit that can make sense in the similar. And then he had their name spelt wrong in the phone. So I'm googling everything I possibly can to find these people, every single thing. And then I end up going on Venmo and putting in a place for research, part of the number and they have a Venmo when it popped up. And then once I had their last name, then obviously I went to Facebook and so I ended up contacting the husband and I started messaging everybody and be like, Hey, your wife's cheating with my husband. What did they say? And he basically they were like, you're crazy. We worked all of them. We worked together, we were all friends. Like even the husband, he wasn't to spish at all. Nope, nope, I felt very confused 'cause I didn't know what to believe. I mean, when the husband says whatever you're crazy, I know all about them, I'm talking. I'm always there when they talk. And she's saying that, but it didn't make sense. Like why would you talk to another? Like, I can see him in the guy talked, but nobody, I don't, when you're married, you just don't do that. So we went to marriage counseling and he had my marriage counselor convinced that he was telling the truth about everything. He had my marriage counselor convinced this was their friend and my marriage counselor would be like, why are you, why are you getting so mad? Like why do you think this? My marriage counselor is like, Ivy, he can have friends. - So then you probably feel even more crazy 'cause your counselor is saying, well, he can have, the counselor's giving absolutely no plausibility to the idea that he could be anything more than friends with this person. - Yep, yep, but I was just like maybe, like maybe it just really is me. Like he loves me. Why would he ever do that to me? Like he's so good to me. He literally just handed over his paycheck every week and he'd bring me home flowers every week and snacks every day from work. And he was the one who was big on kissing and hugging and grabbing my butt. But then he would say that I was, you know, jealous and pairing with my husband, my husband. You know, you're just jealous. Why are you like that? [BLANK_AUDIO] jealous. I come home to you every night and I'm always here and I don't do anything so then when everything went down I'm like okay well maybe maybe I really am losing it like I know I'm going through hitting that age of pre-menopausal stuff so I'm like maybe it really is just me. COVID definitely took me down having a business. Maybe you already feel crazy a little bit so yeah so once I realize I'm like I need to go get put on something because I was having panic attacks all the time. I went and got put on medication. I went to my doctor. I got put on stuff. When he watched me do all this right so I didn't know how to react you know I was just so confused. I was so confused with everything and kind of just living in a blur and at that point I started some medication and that took some of the feelings away. Wait yeah so you felt the impact of the medication dull your life and other places too. And you were on this medication because you were being gaffled. Like you probably didn't even need the medication. Yeah yeah and like I said he would cry. He would cry to me. Lay on my lap and cry and be like I swear it's not you. It's just me. I don't know what I'm going through. And yet anytime anything comes up he says you're crazy. You're being dramatic. You need to go to therapy. Oh okay so it's not me. You're just insecure. I don't know why you're. You're not attracted to me. Which I was never an insecure woman ever and he did. He took it all from me. He took me a while to build back up for sure but I bet it did. But he so after that I just kind of sat and waited. And that summer I had pretty much spent the whole summer at the camper and he claimed to work. So like what's the idea to go to the camper like let's go to the camper and then he you would just be there and he would just be I was just so miserable at that time not knowing what was going on. I would get off work on a Thursday night and I would go there till Monday night. So I don't I come back and work my three days and then I would go back. And y'all would just going through like just going through the motions of marriage it sounds like right. And he'd be like I can't believe you're leaving me. I'm like you can come to the camper. I don't like I wanted him to come and we'd set up date nights and he he would get out there and I'd get all this food to make a special dinner and desserts and stuff and and then he'd be like oh I forgot how you had a football game tomorrow and then he would just leave me there. So then after that come June. I was his 50th birthday and I decided to book us a trip. And he was like vacations don't fix problems. I don't even know if I want to go and I'm like it's your birthday. Like let's just get out of here and go and try to reconnect. And maybe that's what we need to get away from everybody. And that whole week before he just argued with me over the dumbest things. Like one day he came in and told me I was looking at him weird. And I'm like what are you talking about? But anyway, we are on the plane and the plane's landing. And I sho- my phone off airplane mode and it just blows up. What? Yep. And this girl just tells me everything is the same girl the wife. The wife. And what is the first text to say? Like I want to hear. She's mad at him about something. Because he left with me to invocation because he told her he wasn't going because he'd even packed to the morning of that we left. He was trying to get out of it. So they were fighting. And he went on vacation with you. She got mad and just blew up until Jared. Oh yeah. She was saying don't get on that plane. He's a liar. So I'm reading and I was like what is this? And he's like I told you she's crazy. I think she felt different than I did. Then she calls me. And I ended up answering the call on the plane. And she just told me I mean everything like that they it's been years that they've been seeing talking or whatever. And he's just denying right denied. And she's saying I talked him this morning. And he's going no I did it. She's crazy. So we get off the plane. And I said let me see your phone. And he opens it up. He's like I don't know why you never believe me. Obviously something's wrong with her. Maybe she's having problems in her own marriage. And he opened it up. And there was pictures that she had sent him of my house in my car. And I looked at his face. That day. So after we left, she must have drove here to see if he left for with me or not. And when his car wasn't here, then she flipped out. So I just looked at his face and I go she loves you. And he's like you're crazy. What do you mean? I'm like no woman's going to show up another woman's house. So I basically said, you know what? You can go fuck yourself. It's over. And I walked away in the airport. And I never looked back. I just found out everything after the fact. So how did you feel in that moment? I mean, my heart just dropped to the floor. It was awful, honestly. After the fact, obviously it was relieving. And I knew what I had to do. And I knew it was going to be hard. But to actually get it and know that you're right, like I didn't want to be right. You know what I mean? I wanted to be married. I enjoyed being married. I loved my life. I felt like if I continued my vacation with him, I was going to go to jail. So luckily. So back that January, I went on vacation with one of my best friends. And we met two of the most amazing women ever. They're literally my best friends now. And they were in the city we were going to. So they're like, Oh, we'll give you a ride. You know, you don't call an Uber. Well, pick you up from the airport. We'll drop you off at your hotel. So it's like cool. So luckily, she was coming to get me. So I walk away from him. And I just, I never looked back. I said, you can go home. Like I'm, I'm going to vacation. You go home. So she texts me and my friends like, Hey, I'm five minutes out. And I said, Okay, well, I left my husband at the airport. So she gets there and she's like, Oh, shit. You really left your husband at the airport. I'm like, Yes, I did. So she's like, Okay, well, I'm not taking your hotel. We're going to my house. Like we're going to regroup and figure the sell out. So she took me in and the first day I drank a lot. And that's kind of like the most beautiful thing to arrive to after the most horrible breakup of your life. Just your friend picking you up. Like come over. We're going to talk. And I would have met these people for such like, they came in my life right when I needed them. Oh, I love that. I mean, she called off a work for the weekend. Like she, they took, yeah, it was great. And in the meantime, he's texting me and I go, or he's texting, he's like, I can't believe you left me at the airport. And I'm like, I already looked at the beach for years. I don't, I go, I already looked at the bank account. You already have a ticket home. Like what do you, like, go home? And he's like, Oh, you're already looking at the bank account. Like it's just still flipping it on me, right? So he comes home to do some damage control. And by the next day, they're both like, we never said it was physical. You know, we're just friends. Like, you're creating so much drama. I don't give a shit if it's physical or not. Right. Like, you're right. Too much. Well, she's like, you know, I'm sorry. I just have a lot going on with my husband and my dad died and all this stuff going on. And I'm like, I don't really care. Like it's over. And so when I came back from vacation when I left him at the airport, I went straight to my camper. I tried to work. I worked, I did a couple clients and I had to leave. I couldn't even be there because I couldn't talk to people not knowing what I was going to do. Right. So I went to my camper and I stayed there for a month. And I broke down to nothing. I shattered literally to nothing. My friends would come up and bring me food once in a while because they knew I wasn't eating. I wasn't, I didn't do anything. I literally just laid in bed and cried for days. And then finally one day I decided to start listening to self-help podcasts. And I picked myself up. And I was like, okay, this one podcast said, yeah, the let them, this one was the main. She said like, okay, I know you don't want to get out of bed, but count backwards and just get up five. Yeah. And that's what I did. I literally did the next day. And then I started walking my dog three to five miles a day. And I just had to find myself again. And once once I built myself back up, there was no going back. Like there was no turning around. I was never being that spot. I will never let anybody take me to that spot ever again in my life. Then then I had the chance to go and talk to my doctor who got me through it too. And you know, she, she did, like I still take a little something, but she put me on the right medication to deal with what I was actually dealing with and not just to numb my pain. Taking meds that you don't need is never okay. Like that's never, that's not okay. And the worst, I mean, the worst part is the effect on your health. The second worst part is him watching it happen. Yeah. I would, I would lay next to him every single night and cry for a year, for an entire year. And he just let it happen. Like instead of being a man and telling the truth, you just let me tear myself down to nothing. And that that's just crazy to me. How, how we could look me in the face every day and just lie. So I called my lawyer and set up an appointment for the Monday. I went to the lawyers office. I filed, well, first I filed for legal separation because he works at a university and one of my sons went to school there. So we got it for free. So I wanted him to finish school first before he was final. So after that, when I finally came home, we never stayed in the same house together. We would flip flop the camper in the house for the first few months and then finally he moved out. And then I also did go back and see our marriage therapist one last time. My ex was not getting over things. And I think my, my marriage therapist was giving him the wrong idea that we were going to work things out is what my step-kids had told me. And so I went in there and I walked in and I was like, come on. I go, I told you, because I did tell him, because we didn't want in one session and I would tell him. He apologized. Yeah, he did apologize. I mean, he definitely, I was like, was I not right? And I just told him, I go, there's no chance of us ever getting back together. So like, if that's what you're telling him, stop. No matter what he does, no matter how much help he gets, it's not happening. No, I'm not, yeah, I was not going to sit around. I was so depressed at that point. Like I, I mean, he really took took my self-esteem and self, like he didn't just cheat. He literally dragged me down in the process to make me question everything about myself to where I literally lost myself worth of my self-esteem and it took me a long time to get it back. - I'm glad you're sharing that part because there's this first, like, take at this story. You sound so incredibly strong, just so you know, from the outside, and I want to know, so even though he broke down your self-esteem, how did you have enough strength to walk away? 'Cause that's the thing, a lot of people get to that point and they stay longer and longer and longer. - See, for me, it wasn't like that. I know my worth and I knew I could do it on my own, no matter what it took, I will do it on my own. So for me, it was more just waiting for that proof to leave because he had already checked out a year before. And with him checking out, I was still trying everything to try to make it work, but then I started to check it. Like, I knew, I just knew, I knew it was going on, but he didn't want me to leave him. He didn't want to be with her. He was show up at places I was at, on his hands and he's crying and my feet and I'd be like, just go, like, I don't care if you run out in the middle of the street right now, like we're done. - With a bus coming. - With a bus coming. - And he would not, he just did not get it. So then, when he wanted your attention. - Yup. - You know, the pieces in your closet that you just reach or over and over again, Quince is the place to get those. Quince does it so well. I was actually with my best friend's family the other day and we went around in the group. Her aunt was like, you like, thank you. This sweater's the best. It's from Quince and then the person next to her was like, oh my God, my bag from Quince. And I was like, stop, my jeans, Quince. And it was like this funny little gathering of a Quince fan club. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials, like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton and washable silk. And the designs are timeless in the prices are even better. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with the ethical factories and they cut out the middlemen. 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Now at a special discount for our listeners, get 20% off your DeletMe plan when you go to joindeletme.com/datingdetectives and use promo code TDD at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is go to joindeletMe.com/datingdetectives and enter code TDD at checkout. That's joindeletMe.com/datingdetectives code TDD. - Well, that one day I found out that, 'cause I would sometimes mess with her just to get info, right? 'Cause I was like her friend or whatever. - And she's still giving you the information. - Oh, she was still giving me info, yeah. - 'Cause she's mad at you, stayed mad, okay. - Yep, so one day she sent me a picture and she had tattooed his name all the way down her arm. - Oh, what? - Yeah, cool. - Yeah, cool. Inside of her arm says his name straight down it. So come October, he must have broken off with her and she called me and told me everything. They had been seeing each other for four years. - Oh my God. - She did not work with him. He met her at the strip club. - And did you not know that he ever went to strip clubs? - No, he was so weird about them. I wanna hear a slone. So we have our big parties and stuff and sometimes we end up there and he'd be like, that is so gross. Why would people wanna go there? Like, I'm not wasting my money there. But now I know it was 'cause he was scared he's gonna run into people he knew. So he ended up admitting to me that he would go there on the two days I worked late and hang out there when he claimed me had to work late. He admitted to two other women that he apparently had sex with at the club but they used condoms, so apparently that was supposed to be okay. - Oh, so nasty. They bought a house together. - Wait, who did? - Him and my ex and his mistress. - Not the one who has his tattoo. - Yeah, the one who has his tattoo, the one who's married. - They bought a house. - Yeah, so I guess it was a house in downtown or whatever that you can get super cheap 'cause they're trying to fix up the downtown area and they were just gonna flip it. - And y'all were not divorced yet? - Oh no, no. So in the end, I hand him having a secret bank account that I found. It was $32,000 that he spent in a three-year span on toy shops, hotel rooms, strip clubs, prison halls. Apparently she was in prison for like eight months or something. - What? - For what? - We don't know. So there's a whole stabbing story which I don't know the whole thing of it. So my husband had said that she had stabbed her husband. - Well, she had told me at some point that she got stabbed seven times because of the plumber. - What? - I'm so confused. - But nobody had ever complained with what actually happened with the whole stabbing story. But she wasn't jailed for a long time. So I know that. It does have a record like she does have, you know, she's been jailed. - Yeah, how do we find that, McKenzie? - The public records are herch. Feel free to share whatever. - I mean, I searched everything. I couldn't find that. And the crazy part, and I told him one day I go, so she was in jail for six months. He talked her three to five times today. I go not one time in that six months. Did you look at me and think, what am I doing? Like she's not even around. Like what is wrong with you? - Was it physical then? - Right. - That's the only time there lie was true. - Right, exactly. I wish I had, I mean, I wish I had the records 'cause we only went back three years for that lawyers, but I wish I had it before that of the secret bank account, but then again, I'm kind of glad I don't. 'Cause that was a lot to see. I mean, like holidays, he was at sex shops buying her things, but would come home to me and be like, "Oh, I didn't know we celebrated." - Oh my God. - Yeah. He went on vacation, which the one and only time he said he wanted to go for a wheeling with his friends from work, and this is what he needed to do. And I thought the whole thing was weird when he was there, because this is the first time really going away. He never called me to say anything. And then I would call him and he'd be hecked out weird about it. And then after I found out about her, I'm like, did you go there with her? He's, no, no, that's crazy. You know, I went there with my friends. Well, after getting the bank account records, he definitely was there with her. I mean, we're talking hundreds of hotel rooms. It's crazy. - Okay, so somebody stabbed somebody. Everybody's lying. - Everybody's lying. They have a house now, they have tattoos. They have this huge bank account that money was taken from. And in the meantime, when my youngest was home, he's in the military now, he left last year. But when he was home, my ex kept saying, 'cause I own a business, so cash comes home. And he'd be like, there's cash missing. And there's cash missing. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, really, it was him taking it, blaming it on my, and then he's like, I know that he's taking it. And I'm like, he would never, that's like, I give him my, why would he do that? And really it was him taking it. So who knows how much he robbed me blind. - Oh my God. Oh my God. - And to blame your children. Oh, fuck that guy. - Yep. - Okay, tell me how the husband is okay. Like, was he a cuck, like, what's going on? - He was. Yeah, they were having sex together, videotaping it, and sending it to her husband to get off to-- - And he liked that. - And he liked that, yeah. - Okay, so the cuck thing is, if you're not familiar, is where a spouse enjoys watching their partner with somebody else. And that's sexually gratifying to them. It's a level of humiliation, degradation. But also consent is always involved in those things. And if he's a married man and you don't know what's happening, then you're not consenting. - There's no, yeah, there's no informed consent on your part, absolutely, right? - Yep. - That is so gross. - So, stabby stab lady is telling you the truth. - Yep, so she tells me the truth about how long they've been seeing each other. She kept saying something about white glue. I think he was like promising her that they were going get married, all this stuff. Now in the meantime, when he was going through his issues, he started seeing a priest to do these guys retreats and he just felt like he maybe was in his direction and you know every Tuesday or Wednesday he would go do that. Well apparently he was telling her that he was seeing a priest so they could get married in a Catholic church one day. So he'd tell her that and then he would tell her that on the weekends he was going to the hospital to get mental help checking himself in every Friday to Sunday so that we shouldn't call when he was home with me. That day I went and changed my, because I originally I filed for legal separation, I changed it to divorce that day. Wait, but what's the deal with the divorce now? You said he has to, you're paying him? So I had to pay him. I had my house first. So I had to pay him whatever was paid off together, half of it, and then half the equity, but unfortunately house values have doubled since I bought my house. So I had to pay him a pretty good chunk, but I did talk it down like I did do negotiating and got it down in the 32,000. Thank God. I found a secret bank account because I came right off the top and then I gave him our camper and stuff that came off the top and yeah, but last Wednesday I finally paid his ass off and I never have to see him again. Thank God. Cheers. Cheers to that. You know, the lies that he'd come up with are just insane. Now he tells people that I cheated on him. He actually just sent me a picture a couple weeks ago of him and his new girlfriend in Rome. Why? Oh, I have no idea why. Like he meant to send me our divorce agreement or something and he sent me that. Wait, that's pathetic. Yep. What did you do when you saw that? Were you just like I screenshot it and I sent it back to him and I said I hope you're playing crashes. And that was it. I had to talk to him because he never canceled my health insurance. I was trying to get different health insurance. So I had to talk to him and he just he'll still say, you know, it never had to be like this because he was threatening me. He'd always say, well, if you just give me a chance, I'll show you and then you can have everything. But if not, then I'm taking half of everything. So you don't want to hold that over my head, Bella. I was like, I would rather door dash and make money than get then ever go back with you. You are not worth any of that. I get it. I so get it. Good for you. So he's not with Tattoo Girl? Nope. He's not with Tattoo Girl from when I understand. It looks like another poor victim girl. She looks nice enough. So the Tattoo Girl and her husband, are they still together? Yep. They look like they're still together. Do you think he was this way before he met that woman and hit it really well? It wasn't like he had I think that he was this way in his last marriage. I mean, me and his exer friends. I think he was the exact same way in that marriage. But everybody thought he had changed when he met me like nobody, literally nobody would have ever guessed this. I was like a little bit of a flirt. Sometimes we went out. Yeah. Right. I would say, but I didn't really think anything besides, you know, we really everybody thought he changed. I mean, I always, you know, back then I thought like people can change. No, I don't necessarily love him. He was busy. You're like, how does he have the time? Literally. How does he have the time? I mean, Ralph's football four days a week. He had school two days a week. But I think he was going to work, clocking in, leaving to do all this stuff because he's a plumber. So he's not really watched at work. It's a big university. And I think that he would go do his thing and come back and then he work over time. Oh, so when I would call him, I could tell he was at work. And during the day, he didn't really talk because he was always saying he was busy. And I'm usually busy too. So. So he's gaming the system there too. And you don't have time to babysit him. You just trusted your husband. I did. I was the person who trusted everybody, which is kind of the crappy part. Now, you know, after something like this happens, now my fear is I won't trust anybody ever again. And it's hard to because you don't even want to trust yourself. Right. Well, you were right the whole time. I hope that helps you gain that trust back. And the crazy, the crazy is part about it all. Honestly, I'm sure a lot of people feel like this, but I'm not a dumb girl. Like I'm not the one who just avoids the situation. I was on top of everything. I just didn't have the proof. He was really good at hiding it. Yeah. Man, no, we, that's every, every person we talk to is like, I feel dumb. And if I always say you're from tuition, never needs evidence, we feel it in our gut. But we want the proof because we don't want to blame someone for something they didn't do because I'd always be like, well, yeah, my gut feels this way, but there's no way he has time to do this. I do like someone told me once one of my friends, he said, because I'm like, I'm broken. I know I'm broken. I don't know if I'll be able to date or trust or fully commit to anybody again. He said, you're not broken, you're cracked and cracks are fixable, which I thought was like a good, you know, I like that. A good one. Well, I don't know if there's anything else you'd want the audience to know what going through what you've been through because you sound like it is way better on the other side. Oh, gosh. I would want people to know, I would want people to know that it always works out. Like, if you feel so lost and, you know, I got stuck with all this debt, let them try to pay off and it was stressful, but it's so much better. Like I have besides those, those little things, which that'll be fine. And I'll figure out a way to take care of those. My life isn't stressful anymore. Like I get to wake up not with a pit in my stomach or not wondering what he's doing and who he's talking to and laying in bed at night wanting to grab his phone and check it, but being scared that he might get up and see me do it or it was so dumb. I don't want to really shift like that. A relationship shouldn't be like that. I mean, it just makes you go crazy. Like I even found an old phone of his and went ahead and turned back on so I could see if there was text in there. Like it's just not worth it. Like for what? When there's somebody out there who will treat you great or just have fun dating. Like I'm just having fun dating and getting to know people and meeting people and just living my life. And I would also say to other people, don't be embarrassed because that was my hardest part is embarrassment of it. Because I talked so proud about him that to have to tell everyone he was such a dirtbag was devastating. And there's no point of being embarrassed. Like he's wanting to be embarrassed. He told me he told me a couple weeks ago we had to talk for the insurance thing that I have embarrassed him so bad that he can't even live in the city we live in. And I go no, you embarrassed you and you embarrassed me and I will tell the truth a hundred times over and over again. Um, what in the actual dogfish? This guy is okay. First of all, he's a baby. He's a big fat baby. And the fact that he's still coming around like saying he it sounds like he's still but like he still wants that marriage with Ivy. And does he? I mean, fair go away. No, I think his Ivy incredible and yes, would be a terrible wife and person to lose. Yes, but I just think it's all about his own self image and validation and ego and the idea that someone could reject him. And he can't be in control is just in like not something he can handle. You know, like the minute if she were to say, okay fine, I'll give you another chance. You think he's going to change? No, he's probably going to be two months later like, oh, you're bothering me again. Like I think he's just so wrapped up in his own life and it's disgusting. And he obviously doesn't care about anybody but himself because I mean, the worst part, I think there's a lot about parts, but him gaslighting her to the extent that he did is dangerous. No, that's so dangerous for her because if you're on medications that you don't really need, that's dangerous for your mental health. Like you never know what path that could lead someone down, but also the physical the physical attribution of medical, like actual medication to our physical health. That can be dangerous. Like stop it. Well, she said it got to the point where it was like, she thought something was wrong with her and she just didn't want to feel everything anymore, which is devastating, but it also just makes you even more susceptible to lies. I mean, we've totally had stories before we had one specifically where the dogfish was intentionally drugging her repeatedly and convincing her that she had multiple personality disorder. That was crazy. But when you are, you're just easier to manipulate and I think somebody who can sit there and watch you cry, watch you struggle. That's horrible. And know that they're the reason it's not normal. Diabolical behavior. How did you feel about the advice she got when people said, just give it a hundred percent? I don't know. I still stand by like when your when your gut is screaming at you, your fem tuition never needs evidence. We seek it. We want it. It would feel better if we had it. And so that's why we don't usually take action until we have evidence, but your gut is always right. So the fact that people are saying give it a hundred percent. I think it's in good. Like they have good intentions because they're saying like they're basically saying, just give it all you got. So at the end of the day, you can sleep well at night knowing that you tried your best, right? But also, if you know that you just know in your heart of heart that something is wrong, I think she was right to do the gray rocking thing where she's like, okay, I'm just going to stand by and just see what happens because I still don't trust this. And so I mean, you're protecting yourself. You have to look out for you first. Yeah. So. I mean, I haven't been married. I haven't had kids involved in anything. So I always hesitate to like say what someone should do in that situation. But to me, it almost seems like that advice is better. This might sound counterintuitive, but better early in the relationship when you're like, oh, there's nothing terrible. I can't tell if they're the one, but I kind of don't have a reason not to. I see where somebody might be like, just give it 100%. Just try it because then you know, and maybe you know, like sometimes you're not like, they're not the type that you saw and then you stick with them. But further along, she even said, she said, I can look at him and tell he's lying. I can see his face. Right. Like at that point, it's like you already gave it 100%. Like you gave it more than 100%. Yeah, you already know by this point. I know. So it's tricky. I'm curious what people think about that advice because the fact that a lot of people gave it to her and made it feel like it was her fault for doubting him. And she made two. Yeah, that's another thing. Believe him. Well, you should give him, you can give somebody the benefit of the doubt, but still hold on to that femtuition and just know something is wrong. And you can still wait for the evidence while you're protecting yourself. Yeah, I'm curious. I'd be curious when people, because I know so many people who listen to us have been in their own dogfish story. What's the worst piece of advice somebody gave you? What's the piece of advice that you look back on? And you think that was the least helpful thing you could have said. I'm very curious if something's real bad. I would like to know too. Like what is, what's your worst piece of advice someone's given you about a relationship? So put it on Patreon or on Spotify, they have comments and on our social media dating detectives podcast. So we want to hear what you think of the episodes and any support to Ivy. We always try to pass it along to the guest and then tell me your worst piece of advice you've got. Just to point out, if they're gaslighting you into thinking you're crazy, they're probably gaslighting everyone around you too to make them think that you're crazy. So you always look like the bad guy and they always look like the good guy. That is, I think, super common. So the advice comes a lot of times from the idea that you are crazy. The idea comes from the belief that this person has put in their head that you're the crazy one. Keep your people, keep your friends close and you'll be there for your friends 'cause you never know when they're gonna need to be there for you. - Yeah. - And I hope that. - I'm glad she has the support system when she gets. - She's so lucky because not a lot of people have that. And so I think that's nice that her friends really rallied around her. - 40 people came to her divorce party. That's iconic. - That's amazing. - Amazing. I love that. I love all of you guys and thank you so much for listening and supporting us and letting us be a platform for people like Ivy who just like at the end, it always makes me feel good when they say, talking about it is the best therapy for me. - Yeah. No, and we love being an ear for you. So thank you so much. And as always, - Trust you. - And tuition. - Trust your femme tuition. Yeah. - You really meant that one. - Mm. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)