A Conversation with Jorge Perez of Epic Hardwood Floors

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I'm Brett Miller. Your host, Woodtalk is a podcast where we talk about wood floors and the people that make up this wood flooring industry. Today I've got a friend who I have known through this industry for quite a few years through our education, through our training programs, through Expo, got Jorge Perez from Epic Hardwood Floors. Welcome, Jorge. Thank you, Brett. Appreciate it. My name is Jorge Perez from Epic Hardwood Floors. I've been doing Harvard Forest for about 20 years. I'm based in Tacoma, Washington. I've been a member of the End of the Way of Forest. Five, six, seven years now started with just the intermediate classes and I was really, shy because I'm obviously, you know, a shy person to begin with. I didn't know what to expect from the industry. I had heard good and bad stories about it and I kind of really wanted to come and join the end of the day to be, to just find out myself. So in being the Hispanic, I was really worried about just being accepted in a way. There was actually not that many Spanish guys in the industry that I saw. So it wasn't really, I didn't feel as a Hispanic person, a support there. I was more concerned about being like, look different, talk different, you know. So now one of the things I wanted to touch was having more awareness in the Hispanic community to join the end of the day and be in a tent training because there is a lack of training. You just hit on a couple of things that I'd love to talk a little bit about and I think your experience, your concern with getting into this organization from your perspective of what you saw and how you felt. And we talked about this a bit yesterday. That perspective was that, you know, in WFA, it's just a group of a bunch of good old boys. And you know, if you're not in the circle, you're not a part of the group. And that's common. And I remember having the same feelings. And personally, I think it's been one of my objectives to shake that perspective, to shake that even the idea that that's what this organization's about. And it's easy. I think fall down that hole when you get together, even looking at these schools that we do. And you see the guys that know each other and they get together and you see them grouping up and talking and bumping elbows. And then you see the students or the instructors who aren't a part of that. And you kind of see that segregation. And it's not that nobody does this. It's just naturally becomes that. And I think we've seen it. And we just kind of go with what we know, right? Because there are questions that I could ask anybody, and I get to answer, but other than the questions, you want to have that relationship and talking other things that I would relate it, but not would relate it. You know what I mean? Right. And I do feel that there's a lot of students, including myself, sometimes where it would be nice to have a sonica relate to it. And I think it's more relating to me more than anything. Absolutely. And seeing another Hispanic person grow in this industry and see them how flourish and how it has worked for them, and myself included. I mean, I've grown and evolved so much through this industry where my ignorance would have kept me in the closet. Would have kept me should have been doing this for 20 years. And this is what I know and this has been doing it. And I'm happy that I don't need education. Some of us get a lot of information from the Facebook groups or just groups in general. And maybe that's really not a good avenue. Right. Sometimes it is. Again, a lot of Hispanic guys will reach out to me asking me questions that I can't explain in an hour. I mean, we're going to have hours of conversations and some things you can't, you have to physically teach that person to be successful. It's a beauty of this craft. And I feel like over the last several years there has been more of a concerted effort for the Hispanic population, whether it's being engaged with the NWFA or with the industry, it just seems like there's been more of an effort by the Hispanic community to be involved. And I don't know if it's an effort or if it's been a kind of like you, you took that leap, that step to get involved. And now all of a sudden, maybe others are seeing that and feeling that there is a home. And even in the school that we're dealing with this week that we have here, we've got cultural differences, cultural backgrounds, different, I mean, there's Europeans here, there's, I mean, from all over the world. I really think that a, you connect more, being from the same culture, from the same class, from the same ideas. It's mental, it's mental. It's not racial, it's not racial. It's just mental barrier. That's really what it is. It's just that barrier. It's easier for someone, a Hispanic person, even myself to pick up the phone and call another Hispanic guy, that's Spanish, then for me to call Jared or Phil, because I'm going to talk to him in English. I mean, we're not going to have a Spanish class. I mean, a Spanish conversation versus there's guys that come with these classes and he asked him a question, "Are you, do you guys understand what's going on?" And they're just not. They want to ask the questions, but they're feel embarrassed about their, their, maybe their English is not as great. So they feel, they, they just come in not. And I feel that they don't, they, they think that they don't get what they're supposed to get out of these classes. So the hope one is to help them feel like, "Yes, these are our value classes because they are." And create more value for them, where they feel like there's, there's a personal loose, just like I mean, they represent the industry and represents me as well. So there's that immediate connection, that attraction. Because yeah, the, there's a lot of guys who would love to attend these classes who are ready. But they feel like they have to jump through a hurdle. And even essentially what I think the best thing to do is try to ease up that, that transition from jumping from a contractor who would learn from somebody to actually be a contractor that wants to better themselves, better their life by learning through education and through training. And also the literature, you know what I mean? Definitely. We know the basics, you could, you two a lot of things, but there's a lot of things that you cannot learn. Right. There's things that you cannot, yeah, I tell you about it, but it's got to be physically there. There's a lot of manufacturers who already have a Hispanic rap or manager that they could come in and attend and help with those classes a lot. And you're right. You're right. You're right. Feel more engaged. Some of these that we do that are, you know, bilingual classes, we teach in English, but we may have a Spanish speaking instructor or translators there to help. I've been told that, and it's something that I didn't even consider until I was told, but that it can be distracting if it's in both, and probably less of a desire to get engaged with the class or ask a question. If it's, like you said, not, not feeling confident with understanding the language thoroughly, even with a translator there, I mean, shoot, we have just about every type of class that we offer. We have offered and bilingual and different in Spanish also, but would it be more valuable if we marketed the course just to the Spanish speaking population and taught it only in Spanish by someone like you that it was, that was really an and a group of people who were native speaking Spanish that could help and bounce ideas off of each other words, basically just an exclusive type event. That would probably be the best approach to do it, because they won't feel so shy, but they'll be more larger group of like minded individuals of the same race. Not really not like minded, but they're more found from a little race with each other. Of course. That's more of a connection that is not there. And comfort. It comes down to comfort, I think. Definitely. When it comes to a full Spanish class where you don't have to be shy about your language, you don't have to be, you're freely asked a question. So there, and I think, yeah, it will be more engaging instead of having somebody break it down and translate, because it gets diluted when you translate. I mean, that's like diluted really quick. So you're not picking up everything that you're supposed to. When it's just, it just continues to flow with the class, it's just all bilingual, there's no stoppage, no continuances. It just flows better. Yeah. Yeah. I know, I know guys who actually are not Hispanics, and they wouldn't decide. Just because you know, that's the guys that work with. Of course. Definitely. It's like, dude, all my guys are Hispanics. I don't really relate, but I want to come and hang out just just to be part of it. But there is a huge, huge amount of guys who would attend classes, because they're buying finished. We're buying finished. We're buying sandpaper, we're buying tools. Oh, exactly. And so the better they can't be in their trade, which is hard to force, the better it is for all of us as a whole. The better they could do a job, the less one calls their reps going to get, the less failures we're going to see. And they grow, and we all grow together. Yeah. I mean, instead of bashing each other, all this guy's dad, this guy's dad, all of us. I have ran crews of Hispanics. And the only reason why I was a manager is because I was bilingual. You know, I mean, and because of business owner, couldn't really, like, he spoke well, and we had one guy who translate for him. We're usually one main guy, which is me. But everything else was diluted and pretty much there was a lack. There was a barrier there, always a barrier. And so I'm just there to be the look to help facilitate that barrier that most people feel shy and uncomfortable and maybe maybe want to join, but don't feel that there's a value there because it's not targeted to them specifically. Yeah. So being in the awareness of, yes, we are here for you. Yes, our training is here for you. Yes, we want you to be better and grow as a contractor. Right. To not only better yourself, I mean, ultimately it's about making money. Right. I mean, you can do money. The more you're educated you are, the more money you're going to make. Absolutely. It makes total sense to be a part of this, be proactive. I don't do this for the money, but I am making money. Speak like, sure, sure. I mean, it's an investment. That's right. And who does not want to invest in something you're already in business, you're already invested. You might as well soak it up. So tell me a little bit. What's your background? Where did you, where did you come from? Are you from? I'm Mexican. Yeah. No, no, no, no, I'm from, I was born in Mexico. I came in the States about nine years old. I'm from the S LA area, Los Angeles area in California, pretty much all my life. My wife decided to join the military. So we moved to Georgia when I was in Georgia. Huge cultural shock. Oh, yeah, definitely big shock. And then we went to four-hit Texas Colorado Springs and now Washington State. This is because of our career. Yeah. So I've seen different inspections of different, different, different installation methods, different finishes. You know, I mean, we're all regional. We're regional. So it's not one size fits all, you know what I mean? But ultimately, the goal is to make a pretty floor, get paid, and have least amount of problems. So that's my background. But for in business for about 20 years, I managed a lot of companies because of my wife's work. I could never root anywhere. You start to root and then three years and you're out. So it's really hard to build relationships. Just stay grounded anywhere. So now I've been in Washington State for 12 years. Washington is home and I love it. I've been doing this for 20 years. But my girl has been in the last six years when I joined this industry. It's pretty awesome that you've been in the trade for that long and just this recently, I mean, six years ago, getting engaged with the organization and seeing it. And I've grown tremendously, tremendously. I'm not going to lie to your brand. I was, when I first started, I was doing two dollars for it. Yeah. Because my confidence levels were down. Right. I really, really down. I was, I felt like I had a charged cheap because of me being quite was. And now, now I couldn't, yeah, no, well, you've been to the advanced installs and the advanced finish schools and you're instructing at some of our schools out there as a volunteer. And I mean, I know the work you do. I know the passion you put into it. I mean, shoot was it last year, two years ago, the advanced install school. You were in a very small group of people that were working in a room. And you guys were here till 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock at night, creating this beautiful oval medallion that was filled with parketry. And it was I mean, it was beautiful. Yes, very. The intricacy of it. Yes. And this week, you know, you're out here with the advanced finishes and it's, you're, you're, as all of the instructors and students do, I mean, we're all teaching and learning from each other at the same time. Doesn't matter what level of skill or how great somebody is, we're always soaking it in at this, at these schools. There's always something to learn. I, this is my second advanced in the finished class. I've learned so much again. There's always something there. This is always changing. The products are changing. Right. As he says are changing, the races are changing, the machines are changing. So it gets stagnant in one area. And this is all I, like, you don't, you don't ever stop learning. Right. And I mean, in the moment you think you do, you just, you put yourself 10 decades ago. That's right. And when you're not crying. So if you're not crying, you're dying. Yeah. So, but ultimately, my goal is to really bring awareness to the Hispanic community to know that we are here for you. There are guys like me, like, no, I'm just like 0.001% of guys who are willing to help out. And this is not only Hispanic, guys, there's a lot of guys who are interested in learning how to speak the language. Right. I mean, I have a lot of guys who call me, hey, I'm taking that, that, or whatever, because they want to learn the language. They want to break that barrier. You know, they're, they're calling and talking to me in Spanish. Hey, okay. Can I talk to you? Or can you translate for me? You know, that's gold. Yeah. Right there. Yeah. I was just down in Mexico City. John Namba and I were down there for a school. We're teaching 110 students there. And there was a few that spoke English. Several that spoke very little English, but I was, I know very little Spanish. I try. I can comprehend it, and I can usually get by, you know, outside of Buenos dias and gracias. And I know the essentials. But I think it was kind of one of those situations where I realized I kind of understand what you're saying about feeling like if I, I've got this, this block, if I can only speak and translate what I'm trying to say or ask a question. But I don't, because I don't know how to say it. And maybe I, maybe I somewhat do, but I'm not confident enough to spit out the wrong word and be laughed at. Be laughed at. Exactly. And that's kind of a part of it. Yeah. And that's really what it is is that you guys feel like they're, oh man, I'm going to get laughed at or maybe I'm going to ask just a question. And my English is already kind of like giving me that barrier, you know, that I'm like, oh, I don't know. Am I saying the right word? And I just don't ask. And the moment you don't ask is the moment you start you fail. Right. Because the whole point of this class is to learn to ask those questions come make the mistakes here, not in the field. Right. But they're like I said, the whole point is to bring awareness to guys. To know that there are classes. There are people who are here to help support them not only on the technical side, on the business side as well. Because ultimately the point is to make money to get better at what we do to charge more. And to be able to cater more than just one system, you know, just system, part of tree, market tree. I mean, the sky's a limit. How important is certifications becoming certified and actually earning that credential? Huge. Huge. My growth started from the moment I joined the end of the day and I went to my first few trainings. After that, my confidence levels got higher. Like I felt it. I saw it in myself just having that degree knowing that I know how to do it correctly. Whether I choose to do it correctly or not, I know better. Right. So if I decided to take a corner someplace, I knew better. Yeah. But I'd already been trained to know to know the difference. Right. And that was does the best key. That was most important thing that I learned that not only this is a supposed to learn to charge more, to not be afraid to, you know, charge where you're worth. And so this isn't coming to this class. This is an investment. It's not it's not a loss. It's a game. And so yes, I went from I'm probably one of the top guys in my area. I mean, not top guys in the area. And in and I have the right certification to back it up. Yeah. I mean, so I just don't I'm going to go here. These are the reasons why I'm more expensive. These are at the end of the trainings. I've gone this. I know better. I know how to create a successful floor that I can guarantee. So I'm so I'm so learning. I'm so growing on. I know that I'm not done growing in this industry. It's just you get what you put in. It's just like any other relationship, just like my wife and me and like friendship, like a relationship here. Right. You get what you put into it. So you know, I came in with the idea that I was going to come in here. I was going to get showered with knowledge and information. You guys going to embrace me and take me and walk through it. This is the key to making money in dollars, you know. No, no, no, no. It took me getting talking to guys to be more proactive, yeah. Insighting for the volunteering part. And as I don't do it because I'm rich because I have nothing to do. I have the things to do. But give him back. It's huge. And by doing that, it's also helped me grow. So it's just a evolving. Yeah. But I could have been that guy still working for somebody. I could have been that guy still charging $2 square foot. You know, and I probably wouldn't be here. You know how many guys are in that boat. The guy that I learned from many years ago had the spark. When I learned from him, I started just standing and finishing. And that's what he I worked with him. And he he was he had that spark. But then over time, and I would say I fell in the same trap as him, where it was just like every day, same thing over and over. And next thing, you know, it was just like, I'm losing the spark. And it's because at that point, in my career, and I know with him, he ended up moving into a different career all together, because I think he lost it and he never was re-ignited. But you see it with people. And I think it's because he never invested in himself in terms of getting involved with an organization like this or going to schools or even opening up. And for me, I didn't join the NWFA to do that. That wasn't my intention. But that's what came out of it. My intention was selfish. I want certifications that I could validate myself in my market. But along with that came relationships and learning and being humbled and realizing that, oh, you mean there's actual math that goes along with this. There's actual science. There's that this is actually a craft. And wow, there's other people that are struggling with the same struggles. I have putting down this finish or nailing down this floor or using glue and not getting glue from my ears to my knees. I mean, it's everybody's dealing with the same stuff. But it's not rocket science. It's not. It's not rocket science. I mean, I'm a high school dropout. Right. I mean, yeah. And it's what we're doing is not rocket science. It's just getting educated, the proper way to do it. Sure. Understanding what you're doing is more important than just swinging it. Right. Once you know what you're doing and understand why you're doing it, then that's when everything just flows. And it just comes naturally afterwards. Yeah. And I do think that all of us have to find something that we love about Harbor floors, other than the flooring stuff, other than the pay, because there will be those days that you're just like, ooh, I should have a job. See if they went wrong. And sometimes it's it is what it is. And it's part of the being business, being a business and doing business. But yeah, though, I'm not I'm not scared of messing up before. But through this industry, I don't know how to repair my mistakes. That's right. And so yeah. And that's where I feel, that's where my confidence is, where I'm like, I know how to fix my mistakes. And that's what so awesome about these schools, you get to come and try some new things. I mean, this is a big experiment. I call this class, you know, it's advanced finishes, but it's really just a big tailgate experiment, you know, tailgate chemistry. Let's mix this and mix that and not cause any explosions. But we have the guidance from the manufacturers that say, yeah, we may not say you can do this, but as a, as someone who understands these finishes better than anybody, I'm going to tell you what you can get away with. And then you see it and you see the guys pushing the limits and you see failures. And guys saying, you know why that fail? Because we pushed the limits too far on that one. Jumped on it too quick, we laid it down too heavy. We didn't buff it off enough. We, whatever the, whatever it is, those two products weren't compatible. Yep, there's nothing like hands-on. I mean, you got to get dirty, you got to get dirty to learn, especially in solvers and in finishes. You had to come in, get dirty. What else can NWFA do? What would be some of the most valuable things that as a trade organization representing our industry, what can we do to make for certain that it's clear that our doors are open and it's not just that our doors are open and we welcome the Hispanic community or any culture, but also we can accommodate. I mean, how else? What are some other things that you could think of that would be a value? Schools obviously would be critical. Critical? And I think that's the sub-start of it. Awareness? I mean, reaching out to the Hispanic community won't wear the other to let them know like, this is, there's an association there for you. There is a, like, I mean, this is the mecha of Harrow Flores, you know. So we are here to support you. So more than anything, make them feel comfortable. They are here to support you. We are here for you. And we do have the, we do have people that you could relate to, you could ask for it to, to coach you to be a mentor for for anybody that comes in and wants to learn it. And I mean, I'm not talking only in Spanish. I mean, we got resilience. We got Polish people. I mean, we got a ton of people right here working and they're creating great floors and they're doing awesome stuff, but they do want to come in here and learn and get the certifications to further credit, you know, which are huge. I mean, my certifications that have gotten me landed me so many jobs just to know that somebody is invested in themselves, who is taking a time to go and trainings to brag. I mean, I brag to my clients, you know, if I was in this class and look what we did, and maybe it's not a four that I'm going to be able to do anytime soon, but for them to know that I'm able to create anything, anything is possible, textures, whatever you want, we have, we could do it for you. And I really think that there has been, because in the Spanish community, many guys will want to capitalize on that, you know, why just be the straight, straight guy. You know, it's referring. Of course. Come learn. Sure. Well, it's perfect. Well, hooray. Thank you. I appreciate it. This has been an excellent discussion. I think you bring up so much wisdom, so many valuable points. And I am looking forward to leaning on you to help us move down this road. I would love to be a part of this. I love to give back this. I can go, I'm going to break down in tears to tell you how much hell grateful I am because of this. It's made my life so much better. And that is, it's brought a lot of prestige to myself, to my home, to my family, to my kids. That's awesome. To my, to my community, because now I'm able to give back as well. Yeah. And that's what it does. I think that's what, essentially, that's what this is all about. Right. Yes, we're making money. Yes, we want to be successful, but we also want to give back. Yeah. I mean, and why not give back by training and educating guys to make themselves better? So they can be better. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, every time I talk to you, I mean, I feel your heartfelt passion for the trade, for your family, for everything that you're about. And it is. I think Jason made the comment the other day that you're the, one of the kindest people that that he knows in this industry. And I mirror that. I mean, you've always got the smile, you've always got the passion. You're always there. And I do truly appreciate it. I really love what I do. But I'm really, really thankful this industry, especially the end of the day, and everybody was helping through. You know, I mean, from distribution, from my distributor, from guys who have no business helping me, like literally, there's guys that I'm just gonna like, wow, the people have met the connections, the mentorships I've gotten. And but more than more than anything, knowing the important thing is that I know how to do it correctly. Huge. Where they're, where they're, where they decided to it wrong. That is completely up to me. Right. Right. But knowing that I know how to do this correctly. Put that into paper, where I'm able to charge more. I'm unable to show why we are who we are. Definitely. Anyway, thank you Brett for having me here. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Well, I look forward to many, many years. Yes, sir. Yes. Yes. Yes.