A Conversation with Gov. JB Pritzker

[MUSIC] Hello, Mr. and Mrs. American, all the ships at sea. It's the weekly show, which I'll answer it on. We're back after our long respite of not doing podcasts. We are back, we're taping this on Wednesday, September 10th. It's going to be air in tomorrow, and more importantly, today is the day they launched. Operation Midway Blitz, named for the city of Chicago, and what the Nazis did through Europe. What could go wrong? They'll find out why it's called the Department of War. And by the way, I don't believe that's winds above replacement. But we are fortunate enough today to be speaking with the field general who is tasked with repulsing this military incursion. And that is the governor of the great state of Illinois. He is joining us now from the front lines. Let's go to him now, Governor JB Pritzker. [MUSIC] So, ladies and gentlemen, we are obviously, we have a correspondent in the war zone that is now Illinois. It is Governor JB Pritzker, sir. Welcome to the show. Operation Midway Blitz, is it underway? In Chicago, has Chicago fallen? What is this? What the hell is happening? Well, reporting to you from the front lines, the ISIS on the ground. We have already seen some arrests. They are not in full force yet. We've only seen, well, less than 10 detainments arrests. But they only have, it seems like a dozen or two dozen people so far. We know they have as many as 300 agents that have landed at the naval station at Great Lakes. And they take watercraft into a water landing and then storm the-- But they have come with a hundred vehicles. They are unmarked vehicles. And we know that they are preparing to span all of Chicago. And indeed, some of the arrests that occurred yesterday were in suburbs of Chicago. So, it's a pretty widespread endeavor. And it's being led by Gregory Bovino, who led the ice raids in Los Angeles and caused all of that mayhem on the ground. That's their intention here, but to do it even more so here because Donald Trump wants to create a situation for Chicago where he can bring in the National Guard. So that's generally-- you believe the idea is to provoke some kind of unrest within the city, which it almost necessarily will, given the heightened emotions and elevated feelings about all this. And then declare some kind of martial law and send it in. Although, recently, that was declared illegal to bring in the National Guard for any kind of law enforcement. The-- not to throw my Supreme Court language around, but the Pasi-Khamatatis Act. Didn't they say that his actions in Los Angeles were not legal? Yes, but as you know, the Supreme Court has ruled that a decision in one appeals court doesn't apply necessarily to another jurisdiction. So we would have to go get the same ruling here. Nevertheless, I think we would get the same ruling. That doesn't mean they can't bring military troops on the ground here. It just means they can only do certain limited things. The challenge here is that, as you say, emotions are high and that's not speaking just of Chicagoans. Remember, the people they're calling in, the National Guard, the military troops, they don't want to be here either. But they're being ordered to do so, and it's under the threat of court martial, for them to refuse to do so. So these are folks who are coming in here. They're being ordered by, again, Bovino, who wants to cause mayhem. And some of them, I'm sure, are gung-ho to go after people. And now, as you saw, the Supreme Court ruled yesterday, I believe, that it's okay to arrest people just because of the color of their skin or because of an accent that they may have or because they're speaking a foreign language. And so, look, we have a very-- But if that foreign language is Swedish, I think they're still allowed to continue. They're very specific about which language it is, and which skin color we're talking about. It does seem that way. Although we've seen Ukrainians arrested as well, not yesterday, but in past raids. And I should point out to you that one of the reasons they're targeting Chicago is that they've been here before. They-- you may recall or may not-- that Tom Homan actually went to a Republican fundraiser in the suburbs of Chicago just before Trump took office, and announced there that they are targeting Chicago, that that is the first place they're going to come to deport people. And when he did come, and he came nearly immediately after the inauguration with Dr. Phil in tow. Oh, that was in the episode where he wore his flat jacket and went to various raids. That was in Chicago. Dr. Phil, the noted ICE agent, was on patrol with Tom Homan and ICE. They did that, and they yielded very little in those raids. Why? Because we've been educating people on the ground about what their rights are, that an administrative warrant does not allow ICE to break down your door. They can knock on your door. You don't have to answer. And unless you're out in public and for them to grab you, essentially, they have a difficult time running people down. The other thing is we have a consent decree that's in place in Illinois that says that when ICE is detaining somebody under one of their warrants, the bystanders, the people who are with them, who in LA were being rounded up and taken as well, in Illinois there is an extra hurdle for them with regard to those bystanders, to the kind of folks who happen to be there at the time. Did they make any effort to honor those administrative hurdles? Because it seems very clear that what they've decided to do is whatever they want to do, you know, it's very clearly the ethos of the administration is, we will ask for forgiveness, not permission, or even forgiveness is probably too far. You know, we will go in and ignore all of those strictures. Well, we have a very well-organized group on the ground monitoring for these things, and to your point, what we're trying to do is make it so that they have to follow all of the rules and all of the law. And if they don't, we have lawyers at the ready. So I think we've done a very good job and it's frustrating home and Trump. That's why they're targeting Chicago and talking about troops on the ground in Chicago because they've been relatively unsuccessful here with regard to deportations than they have been as compared to, you know, other cities. Hey, kids, you like cereal, right? You're human. Humans like cereal. You remember cereal. Popped it in as a kid before school where you're watching the cartoons there and not paying taxes or let's say in college when you were taking in a variety of things and eight four bowls of it at three in the morning. Well, now cereal is back and it's called magic spoon. 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Because now it's protein. So let's let's talk about what this might look like because what they always suggest is we are out there looking for the worst, the worst. The trend of Aguah is the, you know, and very quickly it went from the leader of trend of Aguah to like some 17-year-old valedictorian walk in his dog. But if this was about finding people who are dangerous, who are here illegally but have committed crimes, What would a cooperative relationship look like between the federal government and the state of Illinois and the city of Chicago? How would you like an operation like that to unfold? What would be your preferred method for this to happen? Well, let's start by acknowledging that indeed, our law enforcement does work with the benefits when it comes to arresting actual violent criminals. We do that all the time. This ongoing. It's ongoing. On going FBI, DEA, ATF, even ICE, right, where there is somebody who has committed a violent crime. I mean, that's our job, too. Would they bring it to you? So let's say ICE says, so we've done our homework. We know there are these, there are 19 people that we have warrants on that we know are in this area. They would bring it to your people and say, help us. Well, well, you need to differentiate anybody who's listening and listening to Donald Trump and Tom Homan needs to know there are two different kinds of warrants. Okay. There's a warrant that's issued by a court, a judicial warrant, which we honor all judicial warrants. If they come with a federally issued judicial warrant for somebody's arrest, we will coordinate with them and help them arrest that person. So even so called sanctuary city honors a judicial warrant. Yeah. And we should talk about what the meaning of that of sanctuary cities, but, but, but let's just focus on. All right. We, we, we want criminals off the streets. We want to prosecute criminals. So, so we do that all the time and we do it with the feds. So that's not what we're talking about here. What we're talking about with ICE is they have the ability and this is why, you know, we have got to reform our immigration laws. They have the ability to issue what's called an administrative warrant. That's something that an ICE agent without any judge or anybody else assisting can just write themselves and say John Stewart is now our target. We have a, an administrative warrant issued by Joe Schmo, the ICE agent to get John Stewart. It doesn't really require much without probable cause in the Supreme Court. Supreme Court says skin color and language can be probable cause exactly now. That's exactly right. And that is why we all ought to be worried about what's going on in this country right now. So an administrative warrant is what they are carrying around looking for people. Now, if they have somebody who's committed a crime, they can get a judicial warrant that, that's not hard to get if you have, you know, evidence of it, just like you do with a US citizen who's committed a crime. So that takes time and paperwork governor and when we're, when we're trying to hit 3,000 people a day, that paperwork thing is a real paperwork thing that's called due process. No, you know, it is a habeas corpus for goodness sake. It's a great stop. Yeah. Let's not, let's not revert to being doing anything, let's not go forth amendment on all this. That's how you're going to play it. So that, that's the problem here. So look, they have a right under federal law and we can't contravene federal law or override federal law. The supremacist clause doesn't allow that. They have a right to go arrest somebody with an administrative warrant. What they don't have the right to do with an administrative warrant is break down somebody's door or do things that are, you know, quasi illegal. What about these sort of the things that we've seen like at the Hyundai plant, like a workplace raid or a home depot where people might be gathering to try and get work. Are those things in sort of administrative areas, those administrative warrants, and indeed, they actually now aren't using administrative warrants. They're just saying you're in the presence of somebody who we have an administrative warrant for. So we're going to arrest you. And they are on the ground, are they coordinating with any agencies that you're, they're just in there freelancing. They literally they didn't tell us what day they were arriving. They didn't tell us what day they're going to start operations. They didn't tell us they were going to the Great Lakes Naval Station. We got one call and that was from this Gregory Bavino. This is the fellow from Customs and Border Patrol again that led the LA raids who called our state police and said we are going to be preparing and maybe fully prepared by the weekend. That's this last weekend. But other than that did not say this is when we'll be beginning operations and we'd like your assistance in any way. So we don't know much have you experienced this at any other time with any other presidency and has and I don't mean in the way that they're doing it. But in terms of coordinating ice or homeland security or those things, how unusual is this just so that we can have a sense that yeah, this is not how things are are typically done or this is how you would do them to create a hostile environment. Well, this is how you would do them to create a hostile environment. And look, I've been governor during I started during Trump's first term and through Joe Biden's term and now this term. So I have that experience with two presidents. What I can say is that in the first term, we saw a lot less of this and during Biden's term, we did see some of this but not nearly like what we're seeing now. But would Biden's people coordinate though? Would they call you and say this is or would they do kind of the same thing? Is it is a bit of a rogue agency? They are acting as a rogue agency now, but during Biden's term, we did get a call to say that they're going to be going to these neighborhoods or they have these warrants that are issued. Often they would come with a judicial warrant, I might add. Did they use administrative warrants in the Biden administration? Yes, they did. The legal right to do that, but again, you know, what the Biden, I mean, what the Trump administration has done is they've taken these administrative warrants and essentially told the ICE agents, you know, go to town, guys, whoever you think you might be able to get, you know, that guy down the street looks bad, right up a warrant. And that's what they're doing as opposed to a planned endeavor that's really about taking somebody off the streets who, you know, who needs to be or, you know, who is truly illegal. And that also blurs the line because, you know, there's been a lot of talk obviously from the administration about the dangerous nature of Chicago. And I think we, you know, look, our country in general is more dangerous than I think all of us would like it to be. And he's talked a lot about Chicago is it's the most dangerous city in the world. And that's why we're going in. But that's very different than immigration enforcement. So what part of that mission creep is occurring right now? Are they also making law and order inroads into what is the purpose of this? Has anyone discussed that with you? Well, only what, no, nobody's discussed it with me. Donald Trump simply stands up in front of cameras and says this is about fighting crime. But as you know, the reality is that federal civilian law enforcement is hugely important. We coordinate all cities, major cities, coordinate with federal civilian law enforcement. And we've been doing this for a long time with the FBI, with the ATF, with the EA. You might know, you might have heard that about 50% of all the gun crimes that are committed in the city of Chicago are committed with guns that were purchased in another state. That's right. Often, by the way, and just to point out where we are geographically, if you look at every state that surrounds us, that includes Wisconsin, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, all of those states have very lax gun laws. And we don't, in Illinois, we've banned assault weapons. For example, we've banned, you know, these items that make your gun an automatic weapon essentially. They just legalized, I think, like three months ago, with the Trump administration. They didn't. Not only that, they're giving tax credits for silencers on your gun. But safety first, yes, safety first. So, well, no quiet in the neighborhood first. Yes, that's right. That's what it is. So, Indiana is often the place where most of these guns that I'm talking about are coming from. Are these guns undocumented, sir? Are you having an influx of undocumented guns? Could you do your own type of sweeps for to get undocumented weapons off the streets? That's a great way to think of it. And yes, I'd love to deport those guns from this country, perhaps to the middle of the ocean. But what we do is with regard to all the guns that are coming across the board, is we work with ATF and we do a lot of gun interdiction and confiscate guns, you know, from people who shouldn't have them. We also, by the way, have universal background checks in the state of Illinois. They don't have that in any of the surrounding states or in the country, but we need one. So, I, you know, this is a challenge that we've got that Donald Trump likes to think that the military and ICE, which ICE apparently is becoming his new militia for his personal use. But when you, you know, combine his thinking about military troops and ice, he thinks that's fighting crime. We know that that's not how you fight crime. Listen, our national guard now want to talk about the Illinois National Guard and we can talk about others. And he's not, by the way, he's not using the Illinois National Guard to come into Chicago or doesn't want to, he's bringing in from other states. We don't, we don't know because he hasn't called up, as far as we know, you know, we've heard rumors that he's calling up the Texas National Guard to bring them, which is, you know, a double offense because it was Texas that sent us the tens of thousands of migrants, you know, simply to make a point and, and gave us no resources and so on. But, you know, and anyway, we could talk about Texas all day. But let me just say that about our national guard and I, I think it's important to recognize this. These folks are extremely well trained. I think we have the best trained national guard in the country in Illinois and they do serve a broad defending our country. And they also are helping us when I need to call them up in emergencies during COVID. They helped us out with vaccinations. We've had floods in the state. We need them to help with sandbags and to, you know, evacuate people. So they do amazing work. They are not trained to do law enforcement. We have a small cadre of about 250 military police who are better trained at crowd control and other things that are related to law enforcement, but really not the same as local law enforcement or Illinois state police. So that's the problem, you know, the first problem I would point out about calling up military troops to come into a city as if that's going to fight crime. Obviously if there's an insurrection or, you know, some other emergency, you're going to need troops. Or if they wanted to declare some kind of emergency based on whatever hyperbole they wanted to use. And that's the point, right? And so I, but I'm just pointing out that if you really want to fight crime and I've asked for this, I've been very public about it. Please send us more ATF agents, send us more FBI and I've talked to those agencies, the folks that are on the ground here, they'd love to have more agents here to help them and I would too. So please do that, do not send military. Let me tell you folks. This one. So today's episode sponsored by Incogni. I get so annoyed at a big tech in the way that they take your information and the way that they profit. Do you know thousands of companies are collecting, aggregating, trading your personal data without asking or having the decency to let you know that they're doing it. 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So you'll point to any website where your personal information is visible and one of their privacy agents will take care of the rest for you. Take your personal data back with Incogni, go to incogni.com/stuart and use code steward to get 60% off an annual plan. Incogni.com/stuart and use code steward to get 60% off your annual plan. Take your personal data off the market today. So here's where it gets, Governor, here's where it gets really, it belies whatever motivation the Trump administration says they are trying to do. So I think everybody understands, you know, God bless this president for understanding now that cities can use more resources to fight crime. But perhaps these are not the best resources is what you're saying or the best way for them to do it. And I want to point out that crime is a complicated issue. It's not just about having tanks on the corner. There's a lot of programs and I'm sure Chicago has a ton of these for violence reduction, income services, child protection, substance use, mental health treatments, and he's cut all of those. That's the point that I was trying to get to. He has cut anything that might help mitigate crime in cities for the approach of parking a tank, you know, on the miracle mile or wherever it is that they want to put things. And I'll go even further. I think for the new budget, they're cutting ATF by I think 30 percent. So trying to square that circle for us as to how crime is fought in cities, how poverty is fought in cities, how resources can help, and how they're actually not concerned with law and order, they're concerned with authoritarian fetishization. Well, let's debunk the myth that that we have somehow defunded police. It's Donald Trump that's defunded police. I've hired more police in the Illinois. Donald Trump has taken all this money away and not just from police and including, by the way, programs for local law enforcement, but you, as you said, ATF FBI, et cetera, grants that were already appropriated, by the way. Exactly. It's illegal what he's done, but he doesn't care. And he wants to create a problem, remember, this is all about fomenting a problem so that he can bring militarization to our cities. But you're right. Crime is a complex thing to fight and we've gone at it every which direction you possibly can. I'll give you an example. We have the best, most elaborate community violence intervention programs in the entire country. We've put $250 million in to building out our capability on the ground. We have peacekeepers that sit in the most violent communities on the corners and talk to those young people who are wanting to get involved in gangs or attracted to gangs to keep them out of it and to bring down the level of angst and anger that exists maybe between two rival gangs. And you know what? It's worked. It's worked. And those people are vital to our safety in the city of Chicago. And I, you know, when I came into office, the guy who preceded me was a Republican. He defunded all these programs. Is it, they believe that those programs have no efficacy? Yes. They think if you just have more police, that's enough. I think you need police, but just to be clear, when I dial 911, I want somebody to come because there's an emergency. So I'm for police, but, but that's it. But you're saying there are a lot of ancillary services that go into violence reduction. And let's also be clear. These neighborhoods that are dangerous, the people who live in those neighborhoods want more police resources, they want more safety, but it's complex. And one of the things that I think drives it is this influx iron pipeline guns and all kinds of other things that help drive the chaos in these neighborhoods. And you mentioned housing and education and health care. Those all play into it, you know, if you are hopeless, you are much more likely to believe that crime is your only alternative. And if we give people an opportunity, possibly a job, possibly a job that doesn't pay seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour, but how about fifteen dollars an hour like we've raised our minimum wage to and we should in the country at least to fifteen dollars. But putting that issue aside, just the idea that you can get somewhere from a difficult neighbor, a trauma-filled neighborhood, giving people hope, giving them an opportunity, maybe to start a business in their neighborhood. Those are all things that have the potential for reducing crime. And importantly, peacekeeping, community violence intervention programs, again, they work. And we have proven it in Chicago. Arnie Duncan runs one of the big ones that's here. He's the former Secretary of Education and has been hugely successful and we've looked at TNI and the other organizations have looked at each set of blocks where the highest violent crime occurs. And what happens when you actually put peacekeepers in those neighborhoods and work with people on the blocks, you know, like I said, it actually has the effect of giving people some hope and giving them an opportunity. So violence has come way down homicide rate has been cut in half. What about in terms of like the frustrations? Is there a frustration in Chicago? I know here in New York, there are times where you'll read a story, a guy will commit a horrific crime and you're like, and he's out on parole after committing 14 other horrific crimes. You have that same scenario, is there a frustration with? a revolving door in terms of justice has the judicial system there done a good job of determining who's an actual danger to society, who isn't, and those kinds of things. Is that an area that can also be improved upon? Yeah, our frustration led us to pass a law that actually requires we've got rid of cash bail. Let me explain why cash bail is a terrible idea. And that's got that should go the way of the dodo bird. And that is that what happens is whether you committed a violent crime or nonviolent crime, you get in front of a judge and they essentially put a price on whether or not you can get out of jail and awaiting trial. Well, guess what? The worst of the worst, the people who have allegedly committed really terrible violent crimes can buy their way out if they happen to have enough money. People who have committed a low-level felony or a misdemeanor can only get out if they can buy their way out as well. The question is should you keep somebody in jail who's committed a low-level offense, nonviolent offense, if they don't have $500 for bail and as opposed to somebody who's committed a attempted murder. And so yes, we've given judges and prosecutors and defense attorneys the ability to hold a hearing to determine whether somebody is in fact a danger to the community and should be held and whether in fact somebody ought to be let go. And you know what? We've had this in place now for coming on two years and it turns out that the same percentage of people show up for their trials as did before we had no bail. And that's what you want. You want to have the judges shown good discretion in actually holding people who are dangerous to the community. Yeah. I mean, the answer is they've made mistakes. But let me just say that bail doesn't make it any better. Just buying your way out doesn't, you know, say whether somebody is a, you know, is a danger to the community or not. And so the way we're doing it now is much more likely to keep somebody who is a danger to the community in jail. Right. Okay. And do you have a recourse when you find there are certain judges who are whose discretion seems to be off-kilter? Vote them out. Oh, that's the only recourse. Yes. Judges cannot be removed unless they've violated a judicial can in some, you know, oath of office. Right. And but they are making judgments. Sometimes they're not good judgments, but they make judgments. But what I find ironic is that Republican judges, ours are elected all across the state. Republican judges often like to when they've let somebody out who then goes and commits another crime, they like to blame the law that disallows cash bail instead of taking responsibility for having made a bad decision themselves. Which would you rather have? Would you like the perpetrator to choose if they have enough money to just buy their way out? Right. Do you think we ought to have a system where judges and prosecutors are helping to determine whether somebody is a danger to the community in keeping them in. So a judge is allowed to say no matter what we believe this person is a danger to our community. Therefore, bail is not granted. And then they also have the discretion to say this is a misdemeanor. And this person is not a threat to the community. Therefore, money's money does not change hands. But that doesn't mean that the judge cannot hold whoever it is that they that they want to hold. Only for felonies and serious crimes, the decision is made by the judge for misdemeanors. They are, they, you know, unless there is some other extenuating circumstances, that person is let out without bail, you know, obviously they have to show up at trial. And as I said to you, we have the same percentage of people showing up for trial now as we did before we got rid of cash bail. Right. What in your mind as the governor of a state that has, you know, is it a lack of of resources that allows this sort of entrenched poverty and misery in certain areas of cities. Why have these issues been so intractable? Yeah. I mean, look, I try to address this every day. It's part of my job, right? To think about how do we, how do we lift up communities, reduce crime? How do we give people more hope? And I would argue to you that there has been massive disinvestment from certain communities, especially in Chicago. But I would say all across the state of Illinois, and I guess we can apply that nationally. The disinvestment means that the dollars have flowed instead to the most powerful communities to the most powerful people and away from people who don't have much political power at all. And I'll give you an example of something that I've worked on over the course of my lifetime. Early childhood education, let me explain how this is related. You know, the children who need preschool and who need zero to three services are the children who are in the poorest communities whose parents are the poorest people. And all that's probably funded by their property taxes. And if you're in a place where property taxes are, you know, negligible because properties aren't worth a lot. I imagine that that snowballs. Well, unless it's funded by the state or by the federal government, as you're pointing out, when it's not, and that's disinvestment, and there's nothing in the community to support it, then yes, there are no services. Right. So the point is that the the investment that needs to be made, we know that when you give those kids early childhood education, when you provide them with with early childhood development resources and their parents, those kids are much more likely to end up graduating from high school, much more likely to start and programs like that. Yes. And we have all kinds of programs on top of head start that are hugely beneficial. And so we've invested in those things in Illinois. And again, you talked about how complex it is to fight crime. But guess what? Someone who goes to preschool is much less likely to end up in prison during the course of their life. And they've done longitudinal studies over 40 years to determine these things. So it's not like we're guessing. So I just think that as you were suggesting earlier, when you talk about education, housing, these are really about fighting crime too. They're also about being humane and being the wealthiest country in the world and the ability for action. Helping families stay together, the kind of things that provide stability. Indeed. And that's the that's the country I want to live in, where everybody has an opportunity. I'm not suggesting everybody gets a huge handout and gets to live free on everything. It's just everybody ought to have a reasonably similar starting line. At least when you're born, given the same opportunities to grow up, have a decent education and be able to look at a potential job and aim for it and get it. So that's a world that we're far from right now. And especially when we're moving backward under this administration. Have you been surfing the web recently? And you've been on some sites and you think, oh, well, let me just go on the private. Let me just go. Oh, you know, I'll do a little private window there and that thing. That doesn't have works. This episode sponsored by Surfshark, a modern VPN with the user in mind for the non-tech grows out that you might be asking, what the heck is a VPN there? Surfshark is a VPN that encrypts all data sent via the internet, takes your passwords, private messages, photos, videos, and other sensitive data from Prime Eyes. Surfshark bypasses geo-blocking online, which can help you overcome location-based price discrimination on plane tickets. Yeah. Did you know that was a thing? 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And they've been very effective at being able to do that. I guess my question to you is, what can be done as collective action? Let me roll back. Because I think there's actually a larger issue. 70 plus million people voted for the Democrat in this last election or voted for a Democratic representation, whether it be in the House or the Senate. In my lifetime, I don't recall call an era where taxation without representation was higher. Democrats have no representation at the federal level. House Democrats are neutered. They don't control any committees. Senate Democrats are neutered, hindered by arthritic leadership and, you know, the 60 vote majority rules, all those kinds of things. The Supreme Court, very clearly there is no liberal real representation there. The executive obviously has been supercharged with sort of a unitary principle. The only real representation right now that Democrats can look to are blue state governors. You're kind of carrying the mantle for anything that a voter who voted for a Democrat can hold on to. And it feels like there must be some collective action that can be taken by these blue state governors to find ways to leverage their strength and power against a vindictive federal government. Donald Trump is, he excels at one thing, finding the pressure points and pushing the limits of his authority to be vindictive and push what he wants. Why is it that the Democratic governors are not in a room together right now discussing what they can withhold from the federal government or how they can leverage their collective power? Well, that's a long question. No, no, but let's, let's start with, I wish you'd have this conversation with some of my Democratic colleagues who are governors across the country. I know you have one or two. Yeah, yeah. Because I believe, for example, at the moment that Democratic governors should be standing up and speaking out, fighting forcefully, rhetorically, because that's, like Newsom is out there. He's got a great social media strategy. It's really funny. I think it's effective. Shapiro kind of stays out of the way, but she's a little bit as well. But there's no, there's no one voice. I understand what you're saying. And I mean, I can't speak to why others haven't joined the fight. See, this is what I would argue. I know what you're saying. Like why don't we have a council and act as one? And I would argue that it's because there seems to be a difference of opinion. I'm on team fight. I believe that we all ought to be standing up right now. This is about preserving our democracy. And we should talk about the issues that really matter to voters. Democracy matters to some portion of voters, but we need to talk about the rest. Anyway, let's put that aside just for a moment. One democracy, that is a point that we all should be gathering around. Let me even talking just about funding. So let's say somebody, if he's taken away all the appropriation, what he does is how many times has he threatened Illinois with the removal of federal funding? Look what he just did at Northwestern University. Yes. And he's got, he's, we've had to take him to court consistently. I think we've had 38 cases that we've had to take to court just about what you just described. Appropriations were made by the Congress that were signed into law. Right. And he's just not abiding by the law. And so that's where we have been fighting. When you talk to your fellow government, when you get, you know, there is a Democratic Council. Yes. When you say, can someone bring up, what could we, can we withhold funds? What can we use to protect ourselves? We do share that information. You know, I created an organization of governors who are focused on preserving democracy. We have a group of attorneys general that work with the governors, because you know, those are our lawyers, those are the guys going to court. The courts, by the way, vitally important in this moment. If they fail, our democracy is going to fail. But our attorneys general and the courts are what we have to rely upon for a lot of what we're doing at the moment. There isn't, you know, remember, like I've got ice agents coming on the ground. There's almost nothing I could do except monitor them. And I've told the people of Chicago, pull out your iPhone, your Android phone, you know, video absolutely everything you see with an ice agent involved. And of course, knowing the rights of, you know, people on the ground knowing their rights. But what about withholding federal monies that you're going to be sending upstream to get distributed to, to red states? What, what are the levers of coercion? You're being coerced and extorted. Yeah. In all kinds of different ways, whether it be education, whether it be social programs, whether we don't, but we don't collect a lot of revenue for the federal government. They collect their own. Right. So there isn't a lot that we can withhold. And so it's frustrating. Believe me, it's frustrating. That's why I think we all have to focus on the 2026 congressional elections. I, I wish I could tell you that there is some other method and believe me, I talk to governors all the time. I mean, I am friends with all of the Democratic governors. We talk all of the time, you know, whether it's Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer or Andy Bashir, Tony Evers, Tim Walls and, you know, and Gretchen and Andy, you know, we are, we are the midwestern Democratic governors. We talk all the time because we share a lot in common, and especially the protection of our great lakes, which Donald Trump doesn't care a word about, but that is FYI 80% of the country's fresh water. 80%. Yeah. And so if you, I mean, if there's something that we all had to be focusing on protecting, right, that's one of the big ones. Donald Trump doesn't give a damn. Right. But anyway, but, but the Democratic governors, you know, more healing and so on. I mean, we do, we talk all the time. There are slightly differences of opinion, maybe not so slight, about how hard you should be fighting. And I personally believe now is when you got to put it all on the line. I mean, I, I helped to build a hall, I led the building of a Holocaust Museum. And what the survivors taught me is that, you know, what they like to teach young children who come to the museum is to ask yourself about what your values are. And I would say this to all Democratic elected officials right now. What are your values? I mean, are you in this moment? Are you a collaborator? Are you a bystander? Just letting things happen? Are you a rescuer? An upstander? The survivors would tell you. But the people need people need a roadmap, you know, it's because I've heard a lot of this. And Ken Martin says this a lot from the Democratic part. We fight and we need to raise our voices. And I think a lot of people are going like, okay, what exactly does that mean? And is there like even, why don't the blue states file a class action lawsuit? Why don't, you know, we do. We do. So yeah, we do our attorneys general. This so that happens a lot with our lawyers, right? The attorneys general actually do a lot of Democratic attorneys general do a lot of work together. They file suits together. They join together. So that is happening. Any promising out of the box ideas that you've heard? There are no new, you know, crazy new ideas that I've heard. There's, you know, protecting our university. I mean, all these things. That's why. And I think we've all discovered here. Let me just differentiate because you said you've never seen it like this. I just want to say, if you look, you know, here's what's different about this moment. It's, there have been times in the past. Obama had, you know, both houses of Congress that were Democratic. That's happened in the past where it's all one party controlling Washington. The difference is that what is happening now is there, there used to be moderate Republicans. There used to be Republicans who were independent, who actually did something different than what the president would want. The Republicans have completely abdicated any independence. And even the ones who you might have had private conversations with in the past or currently who disagree with the president go along with them anyway because they're afraid. And they're giving into that fear. Why are you in public office in the first place? You know, I used to work for a guy named Terry Sandford. He was the governor of North Carolina in the early 60s and then became a US senator in the 1980s. He was the president of the of the university. I went to Duke University and Terry Sandford in the early 60s when it was very unpopular to do so did the right thing and integrated the schools. He integrated. This is in the south when George Wallace was popular in the south. Terry Sandford at the National Guard was sent into to states without their consent. Yeah, although that was because the reason for that was abrogation of a federal law. No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying, though, but that that's the difference between how that power is being used. Exactly. And I would just point out that that that that people who are elected to office ought to be more like Terry Sandford that that is to say, yes, you've got, you know, it's great to be in office and to do all the duties, you know, cut ribbons and, you know, give speeches and what have you, but it's these moments, right? It's at this moment when you should be standing up, speaking out, doing everything you can to fight back against what clearly is a an authoritarian, maybe even fascist end to this and the the attempt to, in my view, to take over the elections in 2026 and 2028. That's why the militarization. Right. Well, he signed an executive order as well on no mail in ballots and, you know, he's creating a federal regime for-- And you know what he wants, right? He pushed the stop-the-steel movement. He pushed January 6th. He pardoned the January 6th rioters. Because he backs the blue. He's a law-and-order guy. That's why he-- Right, exactly. And so, anyway, I just, this is the difference in this moment. Republicans are not independent at all. We have blue-dog Democrats. I mean, look back just a few years, and there were Democrats who would occasionally vote with Republicans on things, right? But now you've got no Republicans. You've got Republicans and Thomas Massey. Is any of the difficulty in coordinating have to do with-- and maybe this is an uncomfortable question to even ask-- but, you know, a lot of Democratic governors have presidential aspirations. I think a lot of people think whoever is the next in line for controlling a Democratic party, it's not coming from Washington. It's probably going to be coming from the States and are the competing interests of people who have aspirations, including yourself, for national office. Is that preventing collective action because of individual ambition? I can't speak for others. Here's what I think gets somebody elected, getting things done, actually delivering. And when you're a governor, you have to deliver. I mean, we are literally managing a state day-to-day, every day we're in office. And so raising the minimum wage is something that I fought for and succeeded at. I got a massive infrastructure bill passed before the Congress ever got around to it because we needed it. And Congress wasn't acting at the time. And so I got that done. Protecting workers with a workers rights amendment. I mean, these are all things that-- But I'm saying in terms of-- so there's a slightly different mandate here for the governors because they're carrying the burden and the mantle of sort of the last vestige of power invested in Democrats in this country. It's not just any more about running your states and getting those things done. It's about creating a kind of bulwark against-- it's the only thing other than a few district courts standing in the way. Yeah. So I'll give you an example. Again, look, we have certain powers. And I am exercising those powers. Here's an example. We have created a sanctuary here for people who are looking to exercise their reproductive rights. All around me, Missouri, Indiana, Iowa, et cetera, Kentucky. They've made it hard for people or impossible for someone to get an abortion. In Illinois, we are not only allowing them to come into Illinois and creating resources that are available to them. But also, we are protecting them once they get here from being prosecuted in their home state, whether you're a health care provider who does abortions or someone who actually needs an abortion. And that's something I can do that pushes back on what Donald Trump and the Republicans have tried to do in Washington. I can't do everything. I mean, it is just-- Of course. I can't stop ice from doing the things that they're doing that I don't like. But we're doing the things that we can think of. And I'm always looking for new ideas. And that is why you are right. Why Democrats and Democratic governors need to and are talking to one another and sharing ideas. We did this good news. We figured out how to do this many of us during COVID because we needed each other. Right. That collective action. And also, in the face of uncertainty, I needed to call up Gretchen Whitmer. I needed to call up Andy Beshear and say, "Hey, what are you doing about this problem? Is it okay for high school football to be played? You know, what are your doctors saying? How are you handling that?" Just examples like that. We all had to talk to one another and they were about things that really mattered in our states. And so those relationships, Tim Walls, Tony Evers, Gretchen Whitmer, Andy Beshear, they have been here all of us together for, you know, nearly our entire two terms. And so we, at least speaking of the Midwest, we do talk to one another and we do coordinate with one another and we agree on so many things. It's not, I'm not suggesting that, you know, we don't get along with Gavin Newsom or Haley. I'm only suggesting that, you know, Democrats do talk to one another and I have talked to Gavin Newsom when he has had a good idea there that I'm like, "Hey, is that something we should do or where he has talked to me about, you know, what are you doing about this issue?" So those conversations occur, but it's very hard to create a council to move in some direction because we control our individual states. One last thing on that point, I just want to say, I'm frustrated. Once again, I'm frustrated by the fact that, and I'm not just talking about governors now, Democrats have not stood up for the fight in a way that I think they should. Well, there's no real, I mean, when you look in Washington, there really is a dearth and a vacuum of leadership and ideas. It's, you know, at first it was worrisome. Now it feels pathetic. I don't disagree with you and I'm screaming every day, you know, and reasoning with people too every day about this. All I can say is it's moving in the right, the good news is kind of moving in the red direction. It's just moving at about 15 miles an hour and it could be going at 100 miles an hour. So I'm frustrated. Here's the next thing that I think we all should be paying attention to. Right. Are they going to shut down the government or not? Are Democrats simply going to go along with the big beautiful bill and the budget that's associated? Or are they going to stand up and fight? And I think that's a decision that's going to get made in Washington, but boy, I think we all should be advising them about what they should do. Right. And if I could a piece of advice for your attorney's general, you know, be creative because that's how we got in this situation. And I think what the Republicans don't understand right now is Donald Trump is also leaving a road map for the next leader that might not be a part of their party. That's right. And that, you know, the government doesn't only spend money on things blue states want. They spend them on things that red states want as well. And if you think if the new normal is vindictiveness and unitary power and a Supreme Court that allows the executive this kind of a leeway, don't think it won't be used the other way. Exactly. What about, I mean, the example I'll give is if you allow the president to use the military to impose his will on states, well, how about in the reverse situation, some Democrat, you know, wants to oppose their will using the military by taking your guns away. Sure. And, you know, there might be people who are in favor of doing something like that. But should that be constitutional allowed? Should the Supreme Court go along with that? No, none of us should be okay with that sort of thing. But if the fourth amendment means nothing, why does this section of amendment need something? I mean, that's really where we're we're adding this. I mean, they're they're picking and choosing the Supreme Court especially. The Supreme Court especially because we can have bad guys who get elected to office. But the Supreme Court at the end of the day is supposed to be the arbiter of actually what's constitutional and what should be allowed. Right. Well, Governor, I appreciate you spending the time. We wish you the best Chicago man. We were there for the convention. What a wonderful play. I've been there many times had some really memorable nights there that I will not talk about. But it's great. And I wish you guys the best. And I hope things don't escalate in the ways that you don't want. And I hope that the other governors take seriously the idea of creative collective action because it's so necessary. I'm with you. Thanks so much for having me on. Thank you, Governor Pritzker. Talk to you soon. Hey, everybody. And I know most of you're probably just fast forward and through the pod to get to these ad reads because they are delightful. And you love them. And today's episode's brought you back ground news. If you didn't fast forward through the podcast to get to the ground news, then you don't know what you're talking about. Ground news is this website. And it's an app. And they're on a mission. They're given readers an easier, more data-driven way to read the news. So they, unlike the way that I read in a completely discombobulated fashion, they will organize articles from around the world by story and provide breakdowns of political bias to help you understand what you're reading. And we all know most of the headlines out there designed to provoke what we like to call fear and anger. You got to get the reptile brain engaged. You got to get the clicks. My brothers will rest assured ground news is the response to that prioritizing media literacy, helping readers sort through the noise gets to the heart of the news. It is a great resource to get clear information and help you form your own. Oh, God bless them. Independent opinions. What the? So no more blaming your bad opinions on me or being ill informed. Go to ground news.com/stuart. Subscribe for 40% off the unlimited access. Vantage subscription that brings the price down to about five dollars a month. Well worth it. That's ground news.com/stuart or scan the QR code on screen. You know, I always forget you're talking to this guy like you have got to help us on a national level and they're like you know I'm running a state. A big one too. Right? Not one of the small ones. Yeah. It's not one of those guys running those states where they're like how many people get 700,000? Yeah like you might be able to walk in Chugam if you're like the governor of Rhode Island but yeah. Whoa now. So shit. Very hard to met you know the smaller states surprisingly tricky. It's the it's the Wyoming's and they had it where they got all that space before you could do whatever you want. Land management. That's what I'm that that that's what I'm talking about. I do wonder how they're going to avoid the kind of provocations that can accelerate these conflicts. Yeah. I mean the fact that Texas to like sent 50,000 immigrants to Chicago and is now potentially the one sending their national guard to round up these immigrants. It's like it just feels like it's like manufactured crises all the way down. It is that you know I the only thing I would push back on that is Texas really was at the center of a large influx of migrants that put a tremendous strain on their state. They didn't have to be so dickish about it. Yeah. But the truth is they had a point about how that's covered that way. And how that stresses the resources of an area and if you think about even in New York if you send 40,000 people to New York it's a city of 10 million people. What that did to every you know people were running around like they're you know their hair was on fire. The thing that bothers me the most about all of this is it seems so disingenuous. There is no collective. Hey how do we work together to tackle what are actual intractable problems. It's more like how do I do a performative outrageous act that elevates my profile. They have no interest in addressing the actual underlying problems. Well it's I thought that was really interesting when he said look at what they're doing with the grants for violence reduction. And the ATF the proposed budget cuts there. Like if you are actually interested in solving these problems we could we could trip away we could keep at least keep funding the ATF of where it is currently. Yeah you don't have to cut. I have never understood how they are able to remove the influx of illegal guns and the ease at which people get these incredibly powerful weapons from the idea of I mean look at what the meals they're making on those terrible tragedies from people who've been killed by undocumented or or what happened in North Carolina on that train. They're naming these these operations after them. It's right. Yeah. Yeah. But but what about the names of the people killed by it Lee it's as though that doesn't exist. It's a separate universe. You can't say you're for law and order and not address that. I just think about Nathan Dom in those moments where it's just it is it is the most important and that's the end of that conversation. Nathan Dom of course that state senator from Oklahoma and I remember saying like does does requiring training for firearms you know make it safer. Yes. But you've removed those requirements. Yes. So you're making us less safe. No. No. You know I was going to add something unrelated but I felt like at the end of our episode today we maybe needed a little pick me up since as Pritzker said there was like a 15 mile an hour move by the Democrats to do something of them. I know recourse in some way but something I do think we should highlight is the fact that federal grand juries from LA to DC are rejecting these trumped up charges against people who are having interactions with federal officers etc. And people are doing this on their own you know removed from each other. It's coordinated, uncoordinated, recourse against the abuse of power right now. So people are doing it. You know what? That's a very important thing to remember is that acting locally and in those areas is still holding as hard as the Supreme Court is trying to not let that happen. It's nice to know that that it's still out there. Absolutely. So I get it. Yeah. Brittany, while we were gone, did anybody did people chime in over over the break? Do they have things they need to know? Is there? We have so many questions for you. But we're just a couple today. Yeah. Two. Two. Two. All right. John, would you say the fusion of Fox News and Trump's presidency is finally Roger Ale's wet dream come true? Oh, first of all, I don't know. If there is a mental image for me, that is more disturbing than Roger Ale's wet dream. I just now I have to think about Roger Ale's waking up going, all right, I'm in the bed. What the heck? All right. Did someone spill, someone spill applesauce? What the hell's going on around here? So that's I've never wanted to be blasted to the moon as much as right now. Thanks, John. I think Fox News and Trump's presidency, I mean, I do think, you know, look, this was their dream to create this thing that would inoculate a Republican president from criticism. I think it's been an incredible tool for de-emphasizing any institution and any institutional knowledge that may have been viewed as corrosive to the Republican experiment. So yes, I would imagine that wherever he is, and I won't look up. He is coming in his later Joseon or whatever it is that they wear. It's got to be later, Joseon. In the place that he finds himself. What else we got? John, nobody, no one is still listening because as soon as we went into Roger Ale's wet dream, I think people were just justifiably went, yeah, I'm out. That's enough of this. Yeah, I crawled out of my skin. Phone went out the window. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. John. John, what name do you think bugs Donald Trump more? Jeffrey Epstein, Stormy Daniels, or Barack Hussein Obama? So Barack Hussein Obama, I actually think he loves because that's a weapon for him. So he views Barack Hussein Obama as he's got that arsenal in his pocket. He pulls it out whenever he needs it. You know, something's going, in fact, Barack Hussein Obama is almost like if this was a Harry Potter thing. So like, you know, who's the guy Voldemort comes in? Jeffrey Epstein and then Donald Trump. Barack Hussein Obama, like a deletrious, epitreous, you know, and gets to throw it. And Stormy Daniels, I think he looks upon as like, you know, you bring up an old girlfriend from high school and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know, we're past all that now. Like he. I wish her well. Yeah, that was like, I wish her well. New cycles ago. That's right. That's right. And he's sort of, and what was it, you know, imagine you have a situation where someone like Stormy Daniels, you do that. Your wife is like, boys will be boys. And your lawyer and your accountant are the ones who go to jail. So I'm sure for him, that's just a dodged, it wasn't even a bullet, just a small cone in there wasn't even a detour. But Barack Hussein Obama, Jeffrey Epstein, I think are the two polarities that exist in his life. He's got one that actually is, presents a little bit of intrigue and danger to him. And then he's got the other that he uses when he's in trouble. It's like a flare that he sends up. So that's where I'd go there. I love that we take all these questions very seriously. I do feel like I think those three names like Barack Obama, Stormy Daniels, Jeffrey Epstein, that's like the most obvious Maryfuck kill I've ever heard. There's no question. There's no question. There's no question of who you're killing in that. That's really fun. That's really funny. Brady, how can they keep in touch with us? Twitter, we are Weekly ShowPod, Instagram Threats TikTok Blue Sky. We are Weekly ShowPodcast. You can like, subscribe and comment on our YouTube channel with the Weekly Show with John Stewart. And I'm very excited to announce our new OnlyFans account, Johnny's Hot Takes. Are we on OnlyFans? Your wishes come true. Yes, we have a negative subscriber ship. Oh, no, baby. I'm going to, I'm bad, baby, baby. I'm going to cash it outside for legal purposes. I'm kidding. I'm deflated. I thought I thought we were in. Well, it's good to be back. It's good to see everybody. Everybody looks well-rested and fired up. Thanks again to lead producer Lauren Walker, producer, Brittany Mimetic. Now, video engineer Rob Vitola was unable to join us this week, but capably in the hands of Sam Reed. And, of course, our audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, researcher and associate producer Jillian Spear, and our executive producer is Chris McShane. Katie Gray, we are back and we shall see you all next week. Thanks so much for listening. Goodbye. 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