3. A Coffee Journey - From New Hire to Manager

You're opening this business with a dream, right? You're opening this business with a passion. You need to know who's working for you. If you're going to have a hiring manager, you need to know that manager. You need to know them personally. You need to know what's going on in their lives, how they feel, you know, all of these things. You can hire anybody off the street, anybody. But you do not know how that person's going to treat your business. Welcome to the Coffee Experts Club, where we discuss all of the insights, expertise, and trauma that goes into making your passion your profession. Our hosts, Aaron, Ben, and Drew are three coffee experts who have taken their coffee experience and turned it into true expertise. They have consulted with major coffee brands throughout the United States and beyond, providing operations, expertise, and gross strategy for drive-through openings, multiple locations, and everything in between. So brew yourself a cup and hang out a bit with the Coffee Experts Club. Maybe give us some backstory, Phoenix. Where to start with your rosters? How to start with rosters? Like, you know, we've talked about a lot. How both these guys started as just young dudes coming up through the ranks as baristas and then kind of earn their ranks, earn their space at rosters. If you give us a little origin story for the mighty Phoenix. I actually love this story. I've told it a million times. I was actually working at Olive Garden at the server. And I had known West from all of the different YouTube videos, just kind of explaining like what they were doing, what kind of movement they were making. And I was just like obsessed with the idea of working at rosters. I'd actually applied probably five times before all of that, just kind of getting into knowing what rosters was. And one day I was just working and West came and sat in my section. And so I just was fangirling. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is actually happening. I think he was there with Isaac. I don't know if you guys remember him long time ago. But they were just sitting down having some lunch. I think talking to strategy and things like that. And I walked up to the table completely red in the face. And I was just like, I'm so stoked that you're here. I can't believe it. And I was just doing the job serving them, getting everything I possibly could. And the next day, Jarrett came in and dropped off two gift cards for me and a bunch of stickers. And so I was just like dumbfounded that that could have possibly happened. I sent in a resume and had an interview with Jarrett at the Edison shop. And everybody that was walking in, I was familiar with. I knew who they were. So I was saying, hi, every five seconds. And Jarrett was just like, you just know everybody in the tree. And I mean, I've been there so long that I knew quite a few people. So anyways, the interview went really well. And then I got started at Gway, which couldn't have been a better place for me. I actually had argued to see if I could go to Columbia Center because I'd known all of the braces there for so long. But so glad I got started at Gway. And then kind of dove underneath Drew's wing. And so kept everything he possibly could have said. And we became pretty close. And then just keep moving up from there and sort of making all the relationships I could with all of the people that were around me and that had any advice or any kind of wisdom that I could soak up and kept doing that. And then worked my way through the ranks and managed Gway for as long as I could. And now we're here. [LAUGHS] What I mean, what I mean. Yep. So I remember when you first walked into Edison. And I think maybe I was watching the interview or something. And after the interview, Jessica goes, that's the next and better you Drew, watch out. And it was like, I better teach her everything I know. So it kind of just went off of that relationship. And I mean, we trained at Edison for a good while. I was going to say, I totally forgot. We trained at Edison. They're like early in the morning. We actually have a ton of fun. Yeah. So Gway was kind of a massive store compared to what you trained at Edison. There can be a lot of fear and hesitation when it comes to these young baristas coming up and working with big teams and lots of customers and loud music. And all the things that go into just being trained, memorizing all the drinks and names and the flow. What was it that kind of kept you motivated to push past all those things? Oh my gosh, there were so many different reasons. It was one, the customers, absolutely the best customer base that I could ever could have asked for. Two, the team that I'd started working with was just so inviting. They were knowledgeable. They cared about the business as much as I cared about the business. Everyone was in a alliance with, hey, this is something that we kind of treat as our own. It wasn't one of those things where you just go in. And yeah, I'm working for a paycheck. It was everyone's love was invested in what they were doing every single day. And so just getting to see that, almost like right off the bat, you know, getting to witness that that was the normal, you know, everyday practice of how people worked there was it really just sucked me in instantly. It was something I could even fight. It was just, I knew that I'd belong there. I just wanted to learn everything I possibly could. And, you know, just emerge myself in the same thing that I got to see these other bristles do. They were practicing like a well oiled machine that, you know, not even thinking about what they were doing. It was just producing. And they were just doing it and having a great time while they were doing it. And you caught people before with that, it was coffee. - No. - Cheers, it was that your first entrance in. So you came out of all the garden fresh, like never done coffee before, but it was something that had a passion about something that you were a user and an experienceder. And then you just like, don't mean the ranks. - Yeah, I drink coffee every single day. I went to Roasters every single day. I couldn't even tell you the amount of money has spent there. But I don't know, it was, you, I had no idea. Like I had no idea when I was doing in that coffee was going to be something that I was passionate about. And even last night I was talking to my boyfriend about, you know, my wants and needs and what I wanted to do in my life. And the only thing I could think of is coffee. I don't even know what else. It's just stuck with you so quickly. And I mean, it's not even just, hey, it's coffee. It's what goes into all of it, the crafting, the care, the love, the relationships, all of that. - One of my favorite quotes I actually like to quote you all the time is, I don't remember exactly what we were doing. I think we were on par and we were talking about Gway and Roasters and the different stores and I said, you said, you know, we're a coffee shop, but we're not a coffee shop because of all the dynamics that go into training all these young people. We're a people development center, basically. - Thank you. - And I think that says true now. - And I would say that, that held, I think that held the most through that, Richland. You know, I'm ever road 68 something too, but that, that shop was always known for like you go in and you're just going to have a ball, like as a customer, like you go in and you're going to feel it, somebody's going to yell, hi, you from like the back room somewhere, like it was always like me, and I'm going to have a good time here no matter what. - It was always like a massive party. And it was like an organized party. You know, it was like, you had so much chaos filling on, but it was so much order at the same time. So it was, it was a beautiful thing. You go in being who you thought you were and then you come out being who you actually are. So that was always something to watch those baristas go in their old style and timid. And then two months later, you know, they got their tattoos out and they have, you know, all these new friends and they're going out to go do all these fun things they never thought they would. So it was amazing. - It's hard to hide and be sneaky when you get, you know, cheered on when you get on a bar. Hey, what's up, afternoon crew? - I actually have a funny memory. We had a shift change coming. And Drew, I think you remember this, actually, but I don't even know why it happened, but we all kind of just randomly lined up and just started clapping. And then all of the people in the lobby just started clapping for this next round of rings and they were coming at them. And like the whole thing was just in a roar and just, you know, celebrating the next shift that was coming on and it was a me. It was so, so cool. - I mean, I do remember that. I was fantastic, but spontaneous clapping for the next team. - Yeah, just to get them started. - I think it's cool too. I feel like obviously, I'm sprung down here in Southern Oregon, I live in Southern Oregon. You know, and that's where roosters came out of initially, you know, with West's departure dutch and going out on his own to do the roosters. And how much of a battle that was, the legal battle whole nine yards from to be able to birth this beautiful thing with roosters. But I think that obviously, all of us are pretty familiar with dutch culture that can sometimes feel pretty forced. Yeah, I mean, like it's a Ford, like it feels like a fake energy, like it's being projected. And I always really appreciated about roosters, just this sincere energy. It felt like coming from the people who seem like they really enjoyed what they were doing, enjoyed the people they worked with. We're trying to put on something to put, you know, to put a drink out the window as much as enjoying genuinely the people they worked with, enjoying genuinely the customers they were serving and really living by the ethos that the whole roosters truly held to, based in service. - Oh, absolutely. I mean, when you have breeze as they are coming off bar and they still want to be there and they want to take out and they, you know, they want to just check in and see, oh, are you set up for the next thing? Like did I get you this? I'm not trying to rush out the door. You know, they want to stick around and make sure everything was taken care of well. Like everyone feels good. And, you know, that's something to, that's something to praise and think about, you know, where you have people that, yeah, they show up to work and what have you, but they're out the door as soon as they clocked out. It was just a whole different, it was just a whole different lifestyle. Honestly, like a different way of working, a different way of, you know, making your paychecks and paying off your bills and things like that, but not only that, you just had so much more going on besides, hey, I'm making some money to pay bills. It was much more than that. - And we always said the people on Windows, the ones who excel the most. - Mm-hmm. - Because they didn't want to be there. - Yeah, you know, it was too intimidating. - We had a moment where I was working Bye. I think I was with you and somebody sitting in the window just chilling, you know, kind of calm, but it was absolutely chaos behind the bar. And I heard the customer say, "How is this, how are you so relaxed?" And it's just absolutely chaos behind you. And the breeze was like, "Oh, this is, you know, this is what it is." And so it wasn't always translated as chaos out the window, which is something that I thought was unique too. - Yeah, as I say, I might need to say at the shop, I was that was always like, if you can make it so the customer when they're leaving, they're laughing, even if you mess up their drinks that got me back. Like, if you can-- - Oh, totally. - You fall off, tell a joke, like tell a personal joke and inside joke with a customer and they're like, "I just are driving away." Like they're gonna be back. - Definitely back tomorrow. It, that's, I feel it was throughout the entire company. Like every barista sort of, that culture was like unspoken. It wasn't a written culture, but it was like everybody got like, yeah, that's the tune. It customers have fun while they're sitting in the drive-thru. They're going from back. - Well, and not only that, but I think that was also so easy because we had some of the funniest people in the tri-city is working with us. (laughing) You know, like there'd be people that would walk in a room and say something just off the top of their head and you'd die laughing. Like I had people tell me that they'd come but to the lobby to hear me sing or that they'd come to the drive-thru because Zach was just hilarious. Or, you know, just all of these different things, all of these different reasons why they would just keep chilling up and it never had to do with just like cup of coffee with always because, hey, this personality exists or I had really loved this person for, you know, just whatever it was, it was very special. - How do you guys feel like that, Robson? So, you know, like obviously Drew has got some new pilots. He's doing for a couple of different clients. Actually, we've got two folks that Drew's gonna be going to their town and helping them open their first coffee drives. And so like big things, they're pretty exciting things there. You know, we have one in Utah and one up in Montana and some different things that are happening. Like, we have our whole checklist. You know, we have the smart sheet that we work from on how we're opening grand openings. You know, and there's all the different moving pieces and you know, your construction and your lease and then working through like all the details from the admin side of things of all the setup behind the scenes, then all the hiring and all the training and bringing it in all your machines and then all the stock and then the grand opening day and our smart sheet like systemizes everything. But I don't say like what we're talking about right here is something that you can systemize. Like it doesn't feel like something we're here like. Hey, so where's that hit the line item? How are we, how are we infusing that into our coffee stand? But I do feel like what we're talking about right here to me is the magic, right? Like I think anybody can sling a cup of coffee. Anybody can learn how to pull a shot. Anybody can, you know, get the mose down. But actually like the things that we're talking about right now is what makes coffee electric. It's what makes coffee magic. Somebody that's starting at their own coffee stand. Somebody that's trying to get their company up off the ground. What would you guys say it is that fuels that magic? Like how can you and choose that electricity into your culture? What would you guys give suggestions wise? - I think, I actually think about this a lot. I wondered what it was that would make this all exist. And I think honestly it's the person you're opening this business with a dream, right? If you're gonna have a hiring manager, you need to know that manager. You need to know what's going on in their lives. How they feel, you know, all of these things. Not necessarily saying that you need to hire people that are only gonna treat your business like theirs, but that's gold right there. If you can hire someone that cares about what you're doing and is passionate about what you're doing as much as you are, that's what you're looking for. And I think that's just one of the most important aspects of how you're gonna get that return to your customers. How are you gonna make your company be out to the community, right? If you just wanna give them a cup of coffee, that's one thing, hire whoever, you know, but if you want to make sure that they're getting the service that you would provide every single time, you need to have people that have lines like you do. - Yeah, I would say too, in the early days, we got extremely lucky and we just, I mean, randomly got lucky in finding those people. But the more like super authentic people that we found, the more that we were able to go, oh, you're the kind of person that we wanna hire. And Drew got really good at finding the authentic people, the people who are authentically sunny or authentically caring, they weren't just like, you know, we're trying to throw on a show. So if you get like, I think a few of those keystone players early on as a new owner operator, then you start to model, okay, this is actually, you're the type of person now the ish that I wanna hire you, I've sent it with my customers, you're fine because you're just a funny person, you're sharing just 'cause you're a caring person, not because you put on the uniform and you're supposed to be caring now. And when you leave, you're just a complete, well, often, yeah, that resonates to customers a lot. - Something special, I noticed that Drew did. It drew me up these sheets of questions. One would tell you how the person, you know, how they think, but two, it would give them, they would give you a really good window into their personality as well. Not just those random questions, like, you know, what do you think you're gonna be doing in five years? It was more like in-depth. And so I feel like that was a really good addition into the interview process of having those kinds of questions. - I just know I get my most creative when I'm put back on my heels by a question. So if that's people the same. I think, you know, a lot of the magic, the magic moment at a coffee shop for the success of the business is at the window between the barista and the customer. Then that customer has one experience or two a day with your business. So you really want it to be magical. But the end verse is true for the barista, you know, they have 1,000 experience of the day with customers. And so you kind of have to consider that when you're hiring people, you know, what's gonna keep them fueled throughout the day? And to take it is authenticity. And I think the magic moment for the baristas can be constant if they're with authentic people who kind of feel that within them. I just found meeting people as real people, you know, as an interviewer and interviewer because that puts them in a box to behave like an interviewer and me to be an interviewer. And so just being real with people and finding that authentic place inside of you that can appreciate what they have to, even if they are not a fit for your business. You know, you give them the 15 minutes and try to have a good conversation with them. And you know, that's just reps. That's just reps for finding authentic people. So Drew, I know, I mean, you've done literally hundreds of interviews and have interviewed in a lot of different stuff. I mean, even just with the co-op team, I feel like you've done dozens and dozens of interviews with people sort of all kinds of things outside of coffee now. You know, I mean, like so many random job descriptions we've thought of Jim Rudy and Adam. They're interviews just because he had all those years of coffee interviews and interviewing people in large, you know? As I'm talking about interviewing, do you guys have a feeling on one-to-one interviews or one-to-many group interviews? Like how do you guys feel like is the best way to identify magic? Do you feel like the magic can be identified better when it's a group interview? 'Cause then you can kind of see how they're interaction with other people in a live setting or do you feel like one-to-one is better? How do you guys do interviews? I know where a lot of the new coffee shop kickoffs that Drew's gonna be part of is finding the crew, you know? So just maybe some feedback on how you guys find the crew. - I really liked having the one on one interviews but with several people waiting. The reason why I like that so much is because you're sitting down with these people, you're having that individual conversation, getting to know them individually. I mean, it sounds a little odd, but you get to compare them to the next person that you're sitting down with, right? Instead of having one interview and then a week later you're having another one with a potential candidate to work with you, getting to sit down and having those individual one-by-one interviews, but back to back, I found it was really beneficial. - I don't think I was ever a very huge fan of group interviews just because you can't, coffee industry isn't about just being like the loud outgoing person, which is great. I would tell people, "It's great if you're loud out loud." But if that's not new and you try and figure it, I don't want to do my team 'cause the customer's not gonna like that. So those group interviews tend to lean towards like who's the loudest and most outgoing. They're gonna get attention. Whereas maybe one of the quieter but the most caring, what's the individual caring, good potential employee just gets railroaded and never gets a chance to have that conversation with you. And nine times out of 10, that really caring, slightly quieter person is gonna be awesome. That he just wants to get on a team, you just need to break their shell a little bit, get them out and get them a little bit more confident the window and they're fantastic. Not only employee with us with it, but just even employee with your company because you can't forget, like at some point you want these people to walk before us too. Well, they can't just talk to people at all times. So they may be great talking to the customer but if they can't mop it before, and that's another issue. So yeah, I don't think I've really been a fan of the group interview. - Yeah, I think group interviews, I mean, it depends obviously like you said on the personality type for who you're interviewing and what you're looking for. And the methods that you employ during the group interviews, like I know I mentioned one about the team building and you find leaders but I have certain exercises but I'm also an advocate for one-on-one interviews. They're a little bit more intimate and that's what the experience with the customer is gonna be is one-to-one. Of course you pull in your barista sometimes and you guys banter a little bit and something that I really enjoyed doing was having an interview with like a Phoenix when you were the manager and I was the regional and you had interviews, I'd love to sit down with you because the banter between you and I or whoever else is there makes the person a little bit more comfortable because there's not so much pressure with them to just be constantly performing and have to answer everything immediately. They have time to kind of process the social situation between the interviewers and of course, the more. comfortable you are with whoever you're sitting with next to you, that's going to make the barista more comfortable. It's sort of the future barista more comfortable too. I totally agree. I know Roasters is always really big at hiring from within. You know, I feel like every manager that I knew of, at least came from within Roasters, nobody that I can think of off top of my head was hired as a manager out of some other outfit to come into Roasters to be a manager. What is your advice when it comes to growing managers, growing a culture, managers, giving people the opportunity to level up? Then maybe for some of our folks that are like, well, shoot, man, like this is my first one. Like, do you have any advice for me on hiring manager? Maybe be in the person in that seat for a set of times so that people can see me, model me for the sake of replicating me. What are you guys's thoughts about? So I actually, I have another memory that kind of goes into with that. I had a conversation with someone that I had promoted to be a lead and he sat down with me one time and he said, everybody told you that it was a no, that it should have been a no-go for me. But for some reason, you decided that I had what it took to get this done. What was it? And I said, there was not one thing in general that gave me that idea that, you know, you're going to be able to do it, except for the fact that I see potential in anybody that wants to put forth their best foot, right? If you're striving to be the best that you can be, you have what it takes to become a leader. So basically, I think what you look for to have a leader is someone that is driven, someone that is dependable, someone that knows what they're doing inside and out. And it's passionate about what they're doing. If you have those four, you know, four things, obviously there's more that goes into it. But if you have those four things, you can, you can breed life into someone and keep that care and, you know, be that, that shoulder for them to lean on whenever they need it and watch them bloom in my, in my opinion. I will say, operationally, like my side of it at the company, they're like, there were so many times where I was like, why don't we just hire a manager from this out like it's, we just lost a manager, you know, maybe out of the blue and like, okay, we can do it. We don't have any. It's like, we could just put a, let's just put a jobless about Craigslist or something, like it would save us so much time and work. So hiring out is effective in that it finds you talent quickly. But the thing that you immediately sacrifice culture and that's why we refuse to hire out. It was always you girls who was in because yeah, it might take more work to, you know, you might have to have a regional step into manage a shop, all there's no manager there for us or not. Period of time. So you can raise somebody up, but it keeps your culture intact and I would say it helps your culture more because that person's like, oh my gosh, it's been here for a couple of years. Now it's my shop to be manager and they that appreciation grows and that that's level of like their owning of something or their location grows so much more. And that you can't hire out for like you can find the best talent for a management position. But it's always going to be culturally worse for you than if you're going to grow somebody up through the years in your time being and promote them within after seeing that over the years, I would always say hired from us out as rarely as possible and hopefully you never have to do that. But I'm always trying to hire within, I was going to have to go. And obviously like Phoenix was saying, you're looking for the standouts, not everybody can do it. And there were plenty of people that we promoted in roasters and had to demotor roasters. You know, I think I think that's part of the culture, right? But I think if you can make part of the culture that it's okay to be promoted and to be demoted, I think that that was one of the loudest callouts within roasters culture in my mind was that people would actually be promoted to a position, stay there for a window of time and be demoted and still thrive within roasters culture. I think that has something to say with people that are like, hey, we understand that, man, we're going to try some things. We're going to take some risks. We'll get out there and maybe it'll work and maybe it won't work. But I'm going to at least give this a shot. And I think that, I mean, they're plenty, they're people that are still within roasters to this day, now Black Rock, where that we promoted up, ran big stores, we're demoted down and are still there years later. I think that's a big testimony to the culture and the hard being behind what Russia was. I think like you said, then some of the best leaders of the quieter ones because they're not so. And I mean, you can teach anybody to run religious of a store. It's simple processes, but running people, you have to kind of have a quiet internal climate to not be so reactive. Ooh, I learned a lot about that with Drew, actually, when I was first getting started, you know, anything that went not my way, I was just like, it's the end of the world, whatever. And after him and I sitting down and having those conversations and kind of, hey, why is this setting you off? Why is it making you feel this kind of way? I finally got to that point where I was like, okay, baseline. Like we don't have to move. It's not the end of the world, what have you. And yeah, I think you're totally right about that. How would you say Phoenix? I was learning how to navigate the chaos because, I mean, when Drew managed that shopping was like, I remember it was utter chaos, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I remember I was there. You'd want to inflame it up a bit and you know, took it from like just a complete sandbox where people were just like, we could do whatever we want, whatever we want, hanging that off to you. How was it that you were that you learned, especially having no management experience? Like, okay, this is what I should do at this point, er, you know, if an employee does this, I should discipline this way or I should work this that way. Was it just learning as you go and trial and error? It had a lot to do with learning the people that were working for me, right? Learning what certain things made them feel certain ways. If I were to say go up to Zach and he did something wrong, a simple conversation with Zach, it's going to make him feel like, oh, hey, this is where I messed up. Whereas if I went up to someone like a different employee, you know, if I went up to a different employee and they didn't learn what just sitting face to face, it was more like tap on the wrist like, hey, kind of a situation, you had to learn how to read those people and what was really going to speak to them and why it was going to speak to them. So I think learning personalities, learning how to talk to different interpretations, how they interpret what you're saying was very important. I've always, I know it's kind of funny to stand up and say, like, you've always been a leader, but I've always been someone that had people ask her for questions, ask them, you know, for wisdom advice, all of that kind of stuff. And I think that really helped me as well, kind of navigating into what it was because we all knew G way to be that crazy, loud, you know, over the top place. And we still got to be that with a little bit more direction, you know? I think too, I mean, like you said, Phoenix, a lot of times it's identifying the diamond and the rust, you know, you always have those traits, you were just thinking for an opportunity to be in the right position to be able to exercise those traits, it's about that said to me. And I don't think I've ever told you this true, but when Drew first started making his like stand out and like moving forward into this area, given opportunities to manage, I think it was first Edison. And then the bump up into Richland and then the bump up into Regional was that all employees party Ben, that was the one that you had to referee all like underage drinkers, right? Same one. But Drew, I don't know if you remember this, but Reed was there. I think with this football or with this frisbee or something like that, and it got thrown into this like weed thicket and you couldn't get to it. And you went over there and kind of managed your way through to get the kids ball or get the kids to frisbee. Do you remember that occasion Drew? That was like Drew. Was it a football or was it a ad frisbee? Do you remember? It was a football. Yeah. So you managed your way back there. Shannon pulled me aside after that all employees being and there was just like, that guy drew he's a leader. And nobody was going to help my kid. My kid needed his ball out of the thicket. He couldn't get it out of there. Drew took time. Went over there, got it, got in the football couch, scratched up, get my kids ball out of there. That kid's going to be a leader here. You watch. And I'm just like, some so simple as like following some kids ball into some, you know, like already thorned bush or whatever it's it's that when given the opportunity, he authentically rose to be a person that we're like that guy's leader. That's guess somebody that we want beating people, that guy's an example when nobody else is watching, like that, that's the kind of leaders that we want. I think that there was a true authenticity and a lot of the leaders within roosters because I think that you guys got really good at finding the Phoenix who maybe had no management experience, who had not much coffee experience, throw her into the middle of something, see how she, see how she swims. And then recognizing, no, she's got talent, she's the diamond in the rough that's put her into this slot. But most people wouldn't necessarily say, yes, she's an ideal client candidate for that position. Let's give her a shot. See how she does. And I know Phoenix really flourished in that. And so I could ask you for that for Ryzen. Thank you. Again, it goes back to, you know, them seeing that in you, being able to, you know, you have that person come up to you and say, well, why did you think that I can do this? It's because they have that ability to be able to see, you know, hey, this person's going to be able to do it. They're going to sink or they're going to swim. But let's give them a shot. If I was to say, we very much, that was another sort of other written part of our culture was like, and let's give it a shot culture like, you know, we, we were always celebrated the honor dog, always celebrated, you know, that, that non-colors grad, it was like the bootstrap's kind of culture of like, whoa, let's, what happens? We'll give it a shot. If it doesn't work, we'll try something else and we'll keep trying it. We'll keep trying it. And that sort of culture only gets into your employees. If your employees look up to the management of the man, it says, let's give it a shot. The employees go, well, hey, yeah, don't give it a shot. Sure. Why not? Let's see what happens. And that's how you do find a lot of, you know, a lot of those leaders to you may not even take it. They'd be a good leader or be a good manager, but they're like, all right. If you're willing to give it a shot, I'll give it a shot and everybody's then trying towards the same goal. And all of a sudden, you've got to be able to imagine a little leader out of it on your hands. You're like, I never will. you hold it with a hundred or so. It's good. That's good stuff. Alrighty, so as we kind of wind things up a little bit, Phoenix, any wisdom you want to leave with us as far as like from your years of doing calligraphy, from your years of leading people, from your years of starting new things, trying new endeavors, you know, dreams, the Japanese heart still probably for things to come. Any last words of wisdom you want to give us? I think the last thing that I would just put out there is the thought of if you have an idea, make sure that you hatch that idea. I think the weight of an idea that could be big is very scary and it's heavy to carry. But if it's something that you know, you're passionate about with something that you want to see through to take that light and make sure that it keeps going, make sure it keeps growing and make it happen. And I think that's kind of, you know, wear a mat in general, just if you see that and you want it, make it happen. It's tough. Phoenix, thank you so much for your time today guys. Thank you everybody that tuned in today for coffee experts and we'll see you guys on the fifth side next week. Thanks so much for joining us today. For those of you who are looking to become a coffee expert yourself, we offer an incredible thorough training online for opening your first coffee drive through at www.myfirstdrivethrough.coffee.