A Childhood Tragedy Changes Everything | "The Challenger" (601)

on today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season 6 episode 1, The Challenger. Rebecca faces a heartbreaking reality about her memory, Randall is reminded of the humanity behind addiction and mental illness. Kevin begins to accept that life as moving forward in ways he can't control, and Kate and Toby continue navigating the challenges of balancing family, work, and their future together. Let's go nobody. Hi friends, how are we doing? Compassion around addiction. Here we are. You're on the table. Let's just like jump into it, guys. If you're watching, you can see if you're listening. If you're watching a day early on Hulu, which you should be, not currently not a paid sponsor, but I realized over the weekend that Pop Tarts now come with protein, which if you've listened to this pod, you are well aware that the cinnamon, well, yeah, brown sugar cinnamon, frosted. Yeah, pop trings. It's kryptonite. It used to be a problem. It used to be like an entire box. So they used to come in six in a box. Yeah, yeah, I would kill the box. Then they moved up to eight, eight is what we see here. For a while, I don't know if they still have them, but they would, they do 12th. Yeah, and I would kill the box. Yeah, and this was all this was one sitting way. Somebody at Pop Tarts is like, they're killing six. We got it. We got to pop this up. Eight. All right, that's a small box sterling. How would you eat 12 Pop Tarts in one night? One at a time. Yeah, I bet two at a time. Some probably sometimes with with some ice cold milk, okay, coming out of the toast of the day, whatever time, whatever time, whatever time it over the course of a day or like probably take about 40 minutes. You ever eat a room temp? Yeah, okay. Yeah. How did you not get sick? 12 feels like they probably did. Just so when you're, but when you're what eight, nine, yeah, yeah, I was a few to 35, 36, no, no, no, through through probably like college. Okay. Yeah, and you're, your stomachs messed up all the time when you got age because who knows what you've. I wish I'd heard about this at the road. Guys, I would eat so much sugar. Like, I think I would have like a knot in my stomach and I'd be like, what's wrong with that? Yeah. And then I would just keep eating. Yeah. And then you just, okay. You just poop out jolly ranchers basically. Yeah. But it wasn't candy. It was, it was pastry. No, no, that's what your system turned the sugar into. Oh, yeah. Okay. Which is like hard, compressed hard. Yeah. Sugar sugar. Yeah. I was on my on my IG and they were talking about like the seven least healthy things that you can get in America. Yeah. Pob Tarts was number one. Number one. Really? Number literally not a single. Yeah. Not a single. Also 10 grams of protein. What per 400 calories? Yeah. There's 400 calories. Is this like for one? I think it's two pop Tarts is, is 400 calories. Is that what one serving is or is one serving one tart? It says a serving. It's two Tarts. There's four hundred calories. So there's five grams of protein in each little. Yeah. Yeah. Which they're probably always has been. Yeah. By the way, I'm like, now that I know we should start promoting. This is not a good source of protein. But so here's the thing. Like, right now my my wife goes to Trader Joe's and we have this cookie. It's a vegan, not a vegan oatmeal chocolate chip cookie. Yeah. You know this cookie? Oh, yeah. It's pretty tasty. Talk to me, Joe. And it's a bit of a vice for me too. And so Ryan, I think under the guys of like having something a treat for something in the house for the kids keeps buying these cookies. And you're like, don't buy these. Now I think she's buying this cookies guys because I look pretty good right now. Yeah. And she's trying to sabotage you. She's trying to undercut your cutness. Listen, sir. Undercut the cut. You said it. Not me. But I'm thinking it real loud, sir. I'm thin. And she has and she has done this in the past sabotaged. Really? She will buy things that she knows that like, you can't resist. Yeah. And so I want to say I feel like Taylor is is in line with you. Yeah. He's like stop buying the cookies. Please stop going and buying those chocolate chip cookies. I'm like, I'm buying them for me. He's like, yeah, but you have willpower that I don't. There you go. That's what Ryan says. My strength is choosing what comes into the house. Once it's in the house, it's a fair game like a dog. I'm going to eat it. Yeah. Yeah. So please don't bring it into the house. And so Chris was teasing me. He's like, oh, we're going to have one on camera. I was like, what I offer you a drink on camera. And he goes, oh, I didn't realize it was like that. I didn't realize it was like that. So now Rob come get these. Yeah. Out of respect. We're just going to rule. I think we thoroughly food thoroughly made sure that Pop Tarts is not a sponsor. I'm sorry. And big pastry. We can get on our episode. Big pastry. It's so funny to call them pastry. Yeah. I'm sorry. Big. No, that's what they're talking about. They are just to be technical. And they do taste very big sugar. Yeah. On purpose. Well, honestly, if they were strawberry frosted, there's you that's not your jam. That's more that was my jam as a kid or just playing strawberry. Playing strawberry. They used to have like a PBJ one. That was our game. Yeah. Yeah. I maybe would have gone for that. Maybe. That's actually how our episode opens Rebecca is making peanut butter and jelly. Just to bring in. Oh my god. That is professional podcast. Mom is making some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the kids. Yeah. In the past, they're going to school. It is the day of the challenger launch. It is. Before we even get to this challenger, which made me like when I was watching, I'm like, Oh, am I watching the right episode? No, this is the first episode because they use some of these. He has a lot of call back to the pilot. Yeah. Yeah. In this episode, which was like, I see he's book ending. I thought I uploaded the wrong episode first. Did you really? Because I saw Justin talking to the when the women and the yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. Okay. I want to say two episodes in a row. We hear the dulcetones of Milo Ventimilia. Yeah. A little singing. And has he sung in the show? No. No. That's not a singer. But he was singing it. And I was like, really charmed. I was charmed by him singing. I was charmed by you listening to him. Yes. Charmed. And I was so glad that he was not good at it. Something. Right. Yeah. Because you like, again, you're like, you can't, we were talking before we started rolling. Like, can't be that good at acting and that handsome and funny and yeah, it went up with a butt like that. Yeah. Yeah. And you can sing. And you can sing. Get out of there. You go. And you know everyone's name on the crew. And you don't get out of here. Stop it. Is it was a very true black and a big thing? No. I mean, yes, but like they weren't. I know them, but I didn't know if they were like, yes, they were a big thing. They're a big thing. But they weren't the new Beatles. That was a funny comment that Jack made. Okay. No. He's like, mark my words. They're the new Beatles. Got you. Got you. Got you. Yeah. Yeah. No one's the new Beatles. It's a real moment in white history. Yeah. Are you a speed waiter? Yeah. That's why you don't need to know about it. Yeah. Okay. Just checking. I was like, that missed something with a huge, you want? How do you guys want to do it? Yeah. Well, just I guess like just kind of jump into this particular. So it is the day of the challenger launch. It's the littlest big three. Yes. Their, you know, mom is making tang. She's making lunch. It's a big day. It feels celebratory. And I actually grew up near Cape Canaveral. You did. So like I have a real connection to any time there's like a shuttle launch just because we were probably like we were in Orlando. So we were, you know, in the in the middle of the state and Cape Canaverals on the west coast. But we used still would see the shuttle launch. You'd feel the shuttle launch. You would feel when they landed again. Yeah. You feel it. A sonic boom. Yeah. So I grew up like very much like this, this sort of watching it at school or knowing about it. It being a big deal was it just kind of even though I wasn't alive for the challenger. It does like bring. There's a lot of quality. No. Yes you were. No. For the challenger. You were alive. You just don't remember how. Wait. It was 80. You're right. I was alive. You were alive. Because I was in I was in fourth or fifth grade. Yeah. I was two. That's what I'm saying. I was I was little. So I don't I don't remember it. But but yes, they I was alive. But so we see the little us big three. They go to school. Obviously it was a huge event. Yeah. They wheel in a television set that the any watch the teacher and the class sort of watch the launch and then the impending disaster. Yeah. And the teacher sort of clock that like because it is confusing when you're watching the footage, you're like, Oh, the rockets were supposed to, you know, correct. I guess like separate exactly separate from the rest of the fuselage and it continues going. And so watching her sort of clock, like, oh, I don't know if it was supposed to look quite like this and quickly like turn the TV off and wheel it out and, and obviously it was an incredibly emotional, traumatic event and you're watching these kids watch it. Yeah. The first time through in season one, I didn't frame it the way I did in this one. I mean, I think I think they did this on purpose, but obviously now we are looking at it from the perspective of like the forced introduction of the idea of mortality to little kids. Yeah. Like, it was such an event that we were so unused to that nobody- The possibility of this being- This wasn't in the realm of possibility. A worldwide trauma was not a possibility and so for it to unfold like that and for little kids to be introduced maybe to to death for the first time in their life in this fashion. In a very visceral way, an unavoidable way. Yeah. Yeah. You're right is like and watching, I mean this episode is also like the trauma and how we all react differently to it. Yeah. In it's sort of presented with the big three and how they each sort of react differently to it and how that grief then shapes them and how they take that grief into every chapter of their life moving forward. Right. Right, right, right. How they respond to it. You're the same age as the big three. Pretty much. You and Chrisy both. Do you have a recollection at all? Vague. Vague. Yeah. Of the challenges. Yeah. I don't think we were watching it in class, but I remember like later that night, like news clips. Okay. Or maybe I'm just like putting it back on my memory, but like I don't think we were watching it in class. I think that would have been. Yeah. Cause I was fifth grade. I was fourth of fifth grade and they they rolled the TV. See, maybe I was just a little, maybe because I'm a little too young, five years younger than you. Yeah. It was a six years old. So I would have been six years old. I would have still been in kindergarten. The same age as them. Yeah. Maybe two little to watch. Yeah. Well, I think not too little to watch, but too the memory of it all. And then sometimes teachers do a good job of like, oh, we have to keep the day going. Yeah. So that it's not the premier thing that's happening right in that day. Like I, I think I remember it happening and us having like, like just a what just happened. Yeah. Like there was just sort of. That couldn't happen. Like they're supposed to go and come back and and anything. And you know, and you knew about all of the astronauts. Yeah. Like there was Christmas call off. Like there was a teacher. Right. Yeah. Like it. So I think there was it was so personal. There was such a like deep awareness. I think around the individuals in the way that maybe we just like experienced Artemis in a sense too. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there was a similar sort of like we all were on this journey together and it felt like a unified experience like when Katy Perry went up there. Yeah. Same thing with Katie and Gale. Like we were all getting that mission. But. But back to the show. It's a story. It's a story. It's a moment. Very few Chris. Thank you very much. Well, it's it's interesting. I can I can talk about this in a way that like our my next her neighbor just passed away. He was in his 80s. I'm sorry. And it came on kind of quick. But we my kids knew him very well so I'm all time. We have a little we had a little window cut in our fence where we would pass. He made homemade tortilla chips and we made guacamole and we'd swap. And he would always have the kids over and help. We would we would go over there and he'd show them how to make cookies or whatever. And so they knew him knew my name, knew my site and then he passed away. And so now these conversations are happening with a five year old and a three year old. About Judson passing away. And I can already see bear handling it a little like Kevin where he's like, okay, like he understands it. He understands that it's sad, but he's maybe maybe protecting himself a bit and and moving through it. Whereas EFA at already at three is like, wait a minute. Does that mean that you that we are all going to pass away at some point? And she's processing it still like even now yesterday we were at the pool. And she's like, let's play a game pretend that I've passed away and you're coming to find me in the forest. And I'm like, I'm like, maybe I don't want to pretend I don't want to play this game. I like game. I don't want to play. I don't want to play a different game. Please pretend I passed away and come find me in the forest. And it's such a it's such a something I don't want to obviously play a game. I don't want to play, but also like such a profound moment to witness a little three year old mind. Process it. Yeah. Like figuring out what it means. And we see it with the big three suit with the big in this and this. More that was us after the short break. And you know, Rebecca picks the kids up from school and obviously is chatting with them about what happened and Jack gets back and he asks how the kids are and she says they're sad. But Kevin oddly feels unaffected and you see Rebecca going to try to talk to Randall about how he feels and you know, he kind of admits to his mom that like the astronaut, the teacher that went up in the shuttle. Didn't she have kids? And what are her kids doing that night and who's making them dinner and it's just it's heartbreaking that that's where his mind goes that he immediately is like, Oh, she's a mommy and she has children and who's taking care of her children. If she's not there to take care of her children and watching Rebecca have to deathfully try to handle that and he wants to send them some macaroni and cheese we Randall because they had macaroni and cheese right that night. And you know, you see Rebecca and Jack, sorry, I'm just like jumping back around. You see them sort of like in bed later that night going, did we handle that even remotely correct? Like I don't even know. I'm sure as you and Rachel are questioning like, how do we handle this? This is something we didn't know that we were going to be confronted with because it is one thing when it's something personal and it's sad and it's unexpected. But there is something so collectively traumatizing about this experience that Jack and Rebecca, the whole world is sort of feeling at the same time, right? It's like immense loss in such a catastrophic fashion. And Jack says, you know, that it's really Kevin, his brain just protecting itself. Right. And because Kevin said, he goes, hey, but, you know, when I was a kid, Jack says to Kevin, you know, I didn't really like talking about things where they're happy things or sad things or say anything you want to talk about and he's like, no, it's not real, it's on TV. Right? Like he's sort of just like, it's in a box. Yeah. Like that was there and this is real life. So why is everybody getting so worked up over something that didn't really happen? Yeah. And he was like, all right, cool, Randall and his aunt and then Kate too beautifully was like, you know what, it's a good thing that they were so close to heaven so they don't have that far to go. The honor to be there. Yeah. You know, three kids, three different reactions. Yeah. Same household. You know. Yeah. And it is interesting that our writers bring it back to this, right? Because we think about the big mortal moment in this show, yeah, being in the loss of their father. Yeah. But I mean, Kevin says at the beginning of this show, and here it all started with the challenge here. It all started with the challenger, yeah. Which is such an interesting thesis, yeah, statement to be reminded of that this is where they get their worldviews. And like, just to bring it back, to bring it back, like what a callback. Fogelback. Fogelback. He has tons of them. You know, like, why, what was in his brain about like, it must have, I'd be curious to ask him, like, was the challenger like a formative thing for him? Yeah. I mean, in his young mind, and I mean, I'm sure for him to write about that and write that to come out of Kevin's mouth during the pilot. And like, did he know that somehow, some ways, somewhere it was going to factor back in again? Six seasons later. I think it's just him sort of like, because he's doing something similar with Paradise. Like, I think that there's a sense of closure that he is initiating with, you know, this first episode of season six, at going back to the pilot of the show. Yeah. So, I don't know. There you go. There you go. Um, poetry. You know what I'm saying? I think even with regards to like the main through line of our train in this episode, you know what I'm saying? Don't look at me crying yet. There you go. I'll take, we'll take our time. No, no. Ha, ha, ha. It's, you're right. And, and I mean, there is sort of a Rebecca brings up the catcher and the rye. Yeah. to her dad reading the book. catcher in the rye on the train, which we'll get to. But she asks Jack if he's ever read the catcher in the rye. And he was like, yeah, of course, no, no, no, I mean, just it's a great delivery. Yeah, because he's like, wait, why do I have to lie about that? Yeah, I read it. And just still look on your face of like, okay, buddy, that's yeah, I was expecting that answer. And she basically says, I'm worried that Randall, like they're, they're, they're looking at each of their kids in the different reactions they've had to this horrific day. And Rebecca's like, I'm worried that Randall is the catcher in the rye. I'm worried that he is going to spend his whole life trying to save everyone. And it's going to be a beautiful, but perpetually disappointing ride for him, that he's just going to try to be the savior. And that factors into Randall's storyline present day, which I kind of like I had forgotten about this episode as well. Like I remembered glimpses of it, but in totality, it's so fun to be on this journey with you guys, because there's so much of a revelation getting to rediscover and watch the show again. And, um, and then I love like it made me cry as well when, when Rebecca's just like what a, like a thing being a parent. Yeah. Like what a thing. It's just like, and then Jack is like, what a thing being a kid. It's like, wow, yes. Both sides of that coin. Let me, let me interject, man, I interject something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to Mario Brown the other day, who just won a second basketball championship. Yeah. They won the last game 31 to 30. It went down to the wire. In shot or not a winning shot like they won like with a free throw left or whatnot, but like he had a drive where it was an N one where he got filed and he made the layup and he made the free throw afterwards. What not, which was huge, right? It's very good. And he's talking in the car about, um, not wanting to be an adult. And I was like, well, why is that, but he's like, taxes, bro. And I was like, seriously? He's like, yeah, pay taxes. It's the worst part. Like, you know, I'm saying you know what taxes are, or is he just like, has he picked that up somewhere? I don't know that that's a thing because I don't talk about, listen, yeah. I don't talk about taxes. I talk about him. I've just introduced them to the idea to bear the dad tax. Oh, we heard about it. I get 10% of everything he eats. Yeah. Whatever you're eating, I get 10%. That's right. That's right. That's the dad tax. But he's just talking about how, like, just growing up. So then yesterday day off school, I think I woke up in the morning. I went for this lovely walk. I meditated. I had a great work. I was able to run three miles on the Achilles, which was pretty cool. And then I was like, okay, I got a Brunei Brown book, right? I'm like standing ground or a new book. Yeah, new ground, like something around. And I was like, this today's just going to be a midday, right? So then I have like this hive of little boys come to the house. Then you remember I haven't done my taxes. And they want to do a lemonade stand, right? Now, Ryan Michelle, shout out to is a champion because like she goes through a shift. She wants to bring it in a butt ton of lemons, right? I didn't have like sugar in the house. She's got sugar and everything. And she doesn't want to know what a butt load is. It's from alcohol, right? It's 246 gallons. 246 gallons, because it's B-U-T-T-E. That's right. Yeah. Like the butt of a something like a vehicle and something. Huge barrels used to be called butts. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So it's that you think it's B-U-T-T. No, no, no. You can have that fight for free. B-U-T-T. B-U-T-T. Got it. I'm like, it's like a herd of cats making lemonade. Like they just start, like they find a squeezer and I sort of panic because I'd like a lot of order. I'm with you. I'm with you. Yeah. You're looking for a cash box. But they were so enjoy. Listen, they were so much joy that they had like I didn't want to stop them. Yeah. Now, I have to make sure like everybody cutting lemons and stuff like, okay. Yeah. Being careful. They seem like they're doing all right. But then I was like, Ryan, I need you to come help me because like there's so much going on right now. I was like, I don't think they're doing this the right way. But I think they're doing it good. And she came in and she was just like, she can see the disorder and she's like, all right, boys, this is what we're going to do. And they were like, yes, ma'am. And they just sort of snapped. It really is amazing. It is. Because I was, I was, and like I started freaking out. And so Ryan started freaking out a little bit too. And I said to me, I said, they can be only one. I said, this is your time to shine. Let me freak out. You step out and say it like I don't freak out that much right now. I need you to hold it together. Yeah. I went outside. I got the folding table. I got a couple of chairs for them to sit up. They had a bullhorn. Oh, whoa. Now boys versus girls, the way that you drum up foot traffic, these come by some living. Just nuts. Yeah, just. Did anybody buy some? Yeah. They made $90. Wow. The most successful. Two dollars a cup. It's 2026. And they, and they, and they, they said that this is artisanal. Like this is, this is handmade. How artisanal. Wait, wait, did they pay back for the supplies? No, I asked Ryan that too. I was like, when are they going to get the sunk cost again? But it was just reminding me of like childhood. Yeah. And like quintessential. And there are these moments where the wool gets not the wool and not, but like the rose colored glasses become a little bit murkier. Yeah. And once they do, you can't go back to know, right? You know, and the challenges representing just a moment for these kids and they're like, we're didn't take away their childhood. But like, oh, the introduction of like it doesn't go on like this forever. Sure. Right. Is the first time that it's right? Sad things happen too. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And Kevin and Kate at the end of the episode, you see little Kevin and Kate get together in bed, right? And they talk about how mom and dad are going to die one day. Yeah. I was like, oh, no, I'm not ready for that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, man, dad, I can. Yeah. That way, I mean, that was IFA's that the night he passed to our neighbor passed away with Rachel at bedtime. Wait a minute. Are you going to pass away? Yeah. Like instantly she made the connection. Yeah. It's just like, that's it. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah, you can't un-ring that bell. Shhh. Night night. Yes. We all are going to die. Yeah. Sleep well. Good night, sweet dreams. Good night, mush. Yeah. Good night, nobody. Good night, nobody. Good night, old lady. Whispering. Shhh. Until she dies. Until she passes away. That's what good night nobody is. Yeah. Good night. Nobody because she's gone. Because she's gone. She died. What storyline do you want to do that? Side note, I did an eliminate stage when I was a kid, but I lived on a cul-de-sac. No one came. Real depressive. So you have to go to, I didn't even think about, I needed to. Yes. Sometimes they have before gone up to an intersection. They'll take the table up to an intersection. They'll set up, but we have an ice machine in our house. So if things get warm, like they can just go get some more ice to keep it going. Yeah. Sure. Crazy. Man. I wish I didn't. I can. They did mint lemonade because we grow mint in the backyard and they did a watermelon lemonade because we also run juiced the watermelon and added it to you know what I'm saying. That is artisanal. Yeah. Yeah. That's real. I paid two dollars for that. I paid two bucks. Yeah. Thank you very much. I guess we could jump into, it's hard because there is a montage in the beginning, right? Yes. That kind of like sets up each of the storylines, right? We go, we have like pilot footage. Yeah. Yeah. And then it shows you where these characters are present day. Yep. Yep. Yep. Well, do you want to get into that catcher and the rye theme and go with Randall? Let's go through. Let's do it. I mean, let's do it. Because what you said, or what Rebecca says, I'm worried, I'm worried that he's catching the rights going to go around trying to save people. It's going to be a constant disappointment for him. Yeah. I mean, my thesis on him is that he is, he is trying to save a lot of people. And it doesn't always work out. And it doesn't seem to disappoint. I was like it doesn't deter him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He never, he never gets a lesson of, like the lesson is never, oh, well, I guess like poor me. I'll never do that again. Yeah. Yeah. Because we see him in the pilot. Obviously, it's, it's everyone's birthday, right? Yeah. And Randall's in his office, people are coming in and singing happy birthday while he gets an email that the private investigator has found his father Williams. That's right. There's a picture. Yeah. And that is juxtaposed with getting an email, right? That they have found the man who burglarized their home. Yeah. And who terrorized them with a knife two years ago. You're gonna have to go however long it was. Yeah. And they have in evidence a picture of their wedding wedding day of Randall and Beth. And it's in like a little evidence baggy. Right. And so from there. Oh, wait. Sorry. Sorry. No, it's okay. No, because I love this. I just want to, because this effect are into next episode. 'Cause Beth is hanging out with the girls and they're just looking at like a picture that Malik sent or something and they're all sort of guy, guy, what not, or a note. And she's like, oh, are you looking at notes from Malik? That's so sweet, you know? And Randall used to send me notes back when I was in school and his whole letters were cursive and everything and it was so beautiful. And the girls are like, all right, Mom, I don't necessarily need to hear about whatever. Randall comes down and shows, tells Beth, like can we talk in the other room? But it's like it's really just one room. Just beautifully undercutting like the tension of it all. Open concept. So he says, they found him and I think I wanna go down to the arrangement and she's like, I guess you birthday, right? And she's like, look, you got a couple options here. Like your wife is together. - Do our one. - Do our number one, do our number two. She's got a new job. I love, I love, and I give you credit for this too in this episode. Believe, exposition done artfully in line with character. - Sure. - Sure. - Because sometimes you're giving like some exposition in your life. - We're gonna get this out. - I gotta say this. - We're gonna forward this story. - Yeah. - You gotta keep this train running, no pun intended. - But she's got a job. So we know that and she's in a good place, et cetera. And she's looking great, new skin care regimen. Or you can go down to see this too. - Hold on, she's like, you come upstairs. - Yes. - She's offering-- - That is door number one for your birthday. - Yeah. - It's about your lunch, birthday-- - Yes. - Shenanigans. - It's about to go down. - Yeah. - And she gets, all right up on him or whatnot. And she's like, you're gonna choose the other door. She's like, I wanna look him. I need to look him in the eye. Like I need to confront this, dude. And I always say just like, because Dan wrote this and because Dan had his home broken into. And Dan would show us like the camera footage of like the guys like Hopping over the fence, whatever, and they're all black, et cetera, et cetera. Like it was traumatizing. And it was interesting to see Dan in particular, because Dan doesn't wear like emotions on his sleeve, but he, you can see him in the world. - Yes. - You know what I'm saying? So when he talks about it, he was like, guys, look, it's in this crazy and it's crazy. Like, yeah man, it's crazy. But he's not like showing this part. And then you read what he wrote and you're like, oh, this is-- - That's how he felt. - This is what's happening. And that's a lot of Dan. - Yeah. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - You guys know what I'm talking about. - Yes. - Everything. - Yeah. - About him. - Yeah. - He's so funny about like being a dad. - Yeah. - And you know, it's like goofy about this and that. - Yes. - And then it does and blah, blah, blah. But then it's like, oh, he is just one giant walking, beating heart. - There you go. - He's all heart. - There you go, with big cheeks. - Yeah. - With big cheeks. - With cutest cheeks in the world. You know, a little chipmunk. But so he choose it and then she just, the life he's, she's walking up the stairs and she looks in the mirror and she's like, mm, I want to chose a door number bath. - Door number bath is the best line. - I love that shit. - But I love that shit. - But I love to when she's like, you are a strange man. (laughing) - Yes. - So strange. Like how could you have this? - Yeah. - Or to go see a man who terrorized you. - Yeah. - Yeah. - You're gonna choose that. - I just had to give her a shot. - I have her flowers for sure. - Yeah. - She's, her number bath is incredible. - So continue, please. - Randall goes to the hearing. - Yeah. - And they kind of just like, it's perfunctory, right? Like they're like, we're actually gonna schedule another hearing, another like a Raymond or whatever from month from now. - Yeah. - And as he's on his way out, Randall walks up to the officer, right? - Yeah. - And essentially like, you know, hi, I'm councilman, whatever you say. - Absolutely. - And I, can I actually have a minute with this gentleman. - His name is David. - Yeah. - And he's played incredibly by Tobias Jeleneck. - Yeah. - If I'm saying that, right? - Yeah, he was wonderful. - Incredible. - And so Randall has a conversation with him. - Yeah. And again, the book, and did you catch it? He starts off by saying my name is Randall Pearson, which is the exact same thing that he said to William when he first met. And he's about to give him a whole diet drive. - I should be all, he's ready. - He's got his whole spiel plan. - Yeah. - And then the guy's like, - You're the guy from my picture. - You're the guy from my picture. And Randall sort of clock him like, oh man, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. Like clearly, my man has gaps in his memory. He winds up saying as much. Like, you know, and he was talking about the picture and he said like, I took the picture and you looked happy in it. And I was thinking it was from like a good time in my life. But now it looks like it was from a bad time in my life. - Yeah. - We come to find out this guy has very little memory of anything that he has done. There was obviously drugs involved in addiction and he has these gaps in his life. And he's in a lot of ways not has no idea how he even got where he is. - Yeah. - He asked you some of the same questions, right? He asked twice about his dogs. You know what they did to my dog or like, do you know where my dog is? - Yeah. - And you're like, I will find out. Like you watching Randall process like, oh, this guy is not fully here. He clearly has some mental health challenges and as well as addiction issues. And this is not going to unfold the way that he had hoped, right? - And his own human concerns. Like of everything going on. You know, like you said, who's gonna feed my dog? Like who's gonna feed, you know, they're talking about the kids and yeah. - Yeah. - That it's just like, it activates that side of Randall of like, how can I help here? I was coming in with one expectation of how I was gonna approach and handle this situation. And this man has presented something entirely different and unexpected to me. And now I'm probably gonna go in a different direction. - He goes in a completely different direction. - So he gets home and tells Beth that essentially, he bailed him out. - Yeah. - And he's gonna be helping him get into a shelter. - Yeah. - That night he's gonna go back and meet him at the shelter. - Yeah. - And, you know, Beth is sort of just like, like any of us would be like, what are you doing? - Yeah. - Yeah. - I think Randall in certain ways for Dan, for like the way that he was perceived by the public, sometimes it's like, man, I wish I could do that. Like there's a part of me that as I even played him, I was like, this guy is kind of like, I wish my heart was that big too. And not to say that I have a small heart, right? Like nobody, you know, I don't think anybody, but I was like, oh man, like that's a lot. Like he reminds me of my brother. He reminds me of Randall K. Pearson. Randall K. Pearson reminds me of Arman K. Slotter in that he will use himself up almost to the point where like he's pouring from a half empty cup. - Yeah. - In service of other people. - In the service of other people, right? And I tell my brother, I'm telling him, I'm like, hey man, you need to go fishing. You need to go do something. Like he loves to fish, right? I was like, take a moment to do something for yourself so that you're not so depleted when it comes to being of service and of value to other people because you don't burn yourself out, bro. He and I would think about him a lot as I was playing Randall. I was like, oh, this must be what it feels like to be my brother, right? To feel like, 'cause my brother, like Randall said one time with regards to Rebecca's care, something. He said, if I don't do it, who will, right? And I've heard my brother say that. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So she says, listen, I'm gonna give you one more shot. After he says all this stuff, he's like, look, you're crazy, but you are fundamentally decent human being. - So you can still get it. - And so because of that, you get to knock these boots, right, quick, and then she-- - If you choose the correct door. - If you choose the correct door. But he also says something like, I chose something with the first time I saw you. She's like, look man, just finished, close the deal. - Yeah, yeah. - Quickly. She says something-- - I don't need, yeah, yeah. - What did she say? - It was a great lie. I'm trying to find it if I can't real quick. - I do love, I just wanna point out that Randall says, you know, she's just sort of like, what? Essentially like, why this guy? Like, why do you have to be so invested in this person? He's like, because I see William and Kevin and my dad and Laurel and Shawna and all these addicts. - I see thousands of addicts in my district, well, I'm not doing nearly enough for. And also, him turning towards this guy and walking towards this guy and learning about him and humanizing him. - Yeah. - Release Randall from his-- - The trauma. - Torment, yeah. - Yeah, it does. - You know, to look deeper and to try to understand. - It's a very evolved position. - Yeah, to try to have compassion is certainly a nice thing to do for that person. - Sure. - But also-- - A gift to himself. - Yeah. - Because at that point, before it was, this is a person who did this to me. And then I meet the person, I was like, this is a person who's going through whatever-- - X, Y, and Z, yeah. I think I wrote it down like, she said, don't be cheap now, just get it done. Something like that. Then he goes to, she says, if he doesn't show up, I'm gonna be disappointed. You see Randall waiting outside of the shelter and my man does not show up. So then he goes home. and he's talking about not being a young man anymore. And what was he, I'm trying to know, I wrote down all the stuff about it. Beth got him some cuff links to replace the ones that were stolen. - And he was touched by that 'cause it was very sweet. And he says, "I need to do more to help the people who are hurting in the city." And she says, "I know." But there's this moment of, I think I just had this now at 50. And I think this is also setting up, remember that we saw him in that magazine cover at the end of season five, so it's like, okay, these are the things that are possibly gonna lead Randall to whatever got him onto that magazine cover, right? But this idea of like time, I think for Randall, for the big three, like the introduction of mortality or whatnot is like, how do we use our time? And I think 50 in particular for me, also at 45, 'cause I was the same age as my dad when he passed away. But there is this thing that's happening, they're like, I know, sounds dark, but like bear with me. I know I'm going to die eventually, but I don't know, like if it has this moment, but I don't, that moment comes and goes, it comes and goes and you're like, I'll just keep living. And I'll just keep living. And there's something about like this moment that I was like, all right, I've probably done the majority of it, which is a different feeling. I've probably done the majority. Now less ahead than there is behind. It's an interesting thing and it's like, all right, now what do I want to do? Like what is the fat that needs to be cut off and left behind so I can like be pruned and flush to maximum possibility with the limited time? If I feel the limitation-- Interesting. Now, before I was just like, I'll keep going. And I think also what happened this year with the Achilles and this happens because I tore the ACL during the show. And I'll have these moments of like, I am destructible. Because believe me guys, for most part, I kind of think I'm indestructible. But now it's like, no, no, it's coming. But I'm not going grace, I'm not going to allow myself to just sort of deteriorate. If I grow older, I'm not going to age like, well, you know, that's just what happens to the body. Fuck that. I'm going hard, all the fucking way. I want the last day to be like, oh, he was just walking like six miles a day. That's how it's going down for Brown. Yeah, heart attack, mid-killer crossover on the call. Killer crossover? Even better, just the sleep. Yeah, just the sleep, just the sleep. That's how we all want it. Just the sleep, really. Stereo wake up, man. Oh, wow. He's gone. He's gone. He had a whole box of pop darts before he went out the way he wanted an entire box of pop darts. No, it's an interesting thing to meditate on, right? The finite nature of all of this and the fact that we're all going to die someday. And it can be taken both ways. You know, it can be depressing to some. And it can be enlivening to others. Sure. It can bring them into the present moment and motivate them in a way. You know, I have a few friends who, as kids, had scares like with leukemia or things like that. And I can think of one friend in particular who it just sent down a nothing matters road. And one friend who is a living everything to the fullest road. Sure. And I think that-- What do you think depends-- Like, determines how we take it-- I mean, I've thousands of things, a thousand things, a thousand little traumas, a thousand little challenger explosions, you know? Like the idea of this guy who breaks into your house, the thousand things that have to put a human being in that position, you know, that go all the way back to his upbringing, and the foster system that he was in, or the abusive father, or the-- You had to work jobs that couldn't be home. And yeah, it's like it's an endless sliding doors situation. If we can-- if we can turn towards each other, the way Randall turns towards this. You know, even though Randall is turning towards it in a way that's like, no, no, I'm going to tell him what he did. He has given this larger picture. You know, it's the zoom out to the bigger picture that brings him compassion and understanding and forgiveness. Yeah, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that resentment that he's holding onto-- that resentment that he's holding onto for this guy is like, is rust on the bottom of a car. You know, it's just slowly eating away at the metal until all the sudden the bottom falls out. Yeah. But if we can release that resentment, no matter what, like no matter what it takes, like it's the most important thing to release these resentments, no matter what it takes, not just for the sake of people around us, but for our own sake. Sure. So we don't end up, you know, eight pop tarts of deep. Come on, now. In a darkened room. As he looks at the pop tarts on their own, they're on the table. I see you. Yes, stop. You're hiding under the table. I'll see you down there. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. Let's do katobe before. Because I think Kev's has like the most-- I want to finish with Kev's. Yeah, so we see Tobi is somewhere else. San Francisco, he's calling in. He has a quick phone call for exposition. That is not only quick, but is made more quick in the dialogue because a man is about to interrupt this phone call. So know this. It is your birthday. I am not there. Please take this massage. And Nick is changed for me not being there. Yeah. Oh, what was the exposition that you had was Nikki coming to live with Rebecca and Miguel. Yes. Yes, that was it was. And I was like, I said, Chris, you better act. You're a third of that shit out there. Like, you know what I'm saying? I just got to say this shit real quick. Because it's your birthday. But they're going to come take care of the baby. And you know how they deal with Nikki right now because he went to move in with them. But anyways, there is a lot happening here at the top of this season. Well, we got to get people together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So she goes and she has her massage because she knows how she likes a woman with strong hands, something like that. And you know exactly what she likes. And she enjoys her massage. And she says, you have a really lovely husband. He's like, yeah, it's pretty cool. He's normally sort of the dude who does like the big gesture thing of what night. He doesn't normally outsource it. But this is pretty cool too. I'm happy. Can we talk about massages? Yeah. You guys, and this might be an unrelatable topic. Go ahead for podcasting by the time. Is there anything worse than a mediocre massage? Like you've taken the time. You're like, you know what? I'm going to get a massage. Today, I'm going to pause and allow some-- And you get there. And Rachel and I call them cream pushers. And they're just like pushing cream around on your back. Listen, all over the world, we've been all kinds of places. And sometimes you're like, most of the time, it's great. Okay. Once on a while, you get some-- You want to know where one of the worst massages? It was that weekend that we had as a cast at the world's nicest hotel. Yeah. I was talking again about this. Worst massage. And I wish I had called it off like 10 minutes in. And I was almost like, you know what? We're okay. Are you serious? Lady put on-- Lady put on lunch lady gloves. What? You know? Not like latex gloves, like the loose lunch lady gloves. [LAUGHTER] And at first, I was like, what is that sensation? And I kind of like glance back-- I'm elastic on my body. Just lunch lady gloves and lotion. And it was just like, lotion. I've never heard anybody glance back in the middle of a massage like your head. Like, what is that? You like lift up and you're like, what? Because I could hear the crinkly and the lotion. Oh, you guys. And I was like, this is unacceptable. You do the exposition. She's talking to the masseuse. Yeah. In the middle of the masseuse, she gets a text from Philip saying there's an emergency at school need you. She's supposed to have the day off. Oh, I was saying she doesn't have the day off. Yeah, because the kids are at the train park with Nikki and Miguel and Rebecca. Yeah. Where was the breakfast park? Yeah. The train we went all the time. Yeah. Yeah. OK, so she goes to school and she's outside of Philip's office covered in lotion. What was that? Guys, tell me even though I was breaking up. This is like-- That was one of the moments that I was also like, I'm sorry. What show are we watching? He was like, "Look, you're boring," he says, "you're just boring. You're boring." But I'm like, "Wait, who is this woman? Why is this happening at school? Why is the door open? Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why But I'm like, wait, who is this woman? Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why? I wanted to know. Listen, listen, I called you and my coworker Kate back to back to you. She should be here any minute, so we can finish this. She might be waiting outside the door right now. You bore, you bore me. Can we be done? She's like, you're beautiful, you're sexy, you're any man would want you. Yeah, yeah, for me. Except for me. I don't want you, you're boring. I was just like, wait, what, what is this trying to tell us? I think it is we know that they're getting married from the end of last season. So we're trying to see like, I think Fogham and is trying to create like, how did this happen? If this dude just did this, this dude, she-- But I also was like, why do we need to see him break up with somebody at school, with the door open? Yeah, he could have just kicked a dog or something. He could have just been him. We already knew he was a prick. Yeah, it's like, we get it. Yeah, but that's whole. Okay, so that happens. She leaves. And then Kate was like, what was that? He's like, oh, nothing. Come on, I got to show you. Yes, again, I was like-- We're cramming it. Cramming in this exposition. There is hot take. Hot take, I like it. Totally unnecessary. It wasn't, yeah. You're probably right, you're probably right. They go outside and he's like, the kids insisted on doing something for you. We heard that this was one of your favorite songs. And these little blind children. Listen, that's what they are. I'm not saying anything. They're so blind children. They sang their asses off. Oh, and so sweet. Like, the purity of sound that is coming from the vocal boxes of these children starts to melt your boy almost instantaneously. Also, back to just like, you guys will know this 'cause it's what Brown calls a quintessentially white song. But the montage song that is an echo back to what's been used before, that shit gets me every, every time I hear that friggin song. - Which one? - Watch me. ♪ Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh ♪ - It's at the beginning of this. - Oh, it's, no, no, no. No, no, the suffiancy is in song. - Oh, yeah. That shit gets me. That's some white shit that gets your boy every time. - Yeah, Sophia, no. - Sophia, no. - Steven's just one of our white kings. - He is a white king. - Listen, I mean, he is the-- - Put me on. - Yeah. - Put me on, because I was like every-- 'cause we used that song a few times throughout the course of the show, don't we? - Yeah, it's in the pilot for sure. It's in this episode. It might have been, yes. - I love it. - Some were, Trinkledon, somewhere else in the-- - Yeah, Trinkledon is Trinkledon's spots, but I love it. So, okay. But here's the thing that I got from the scene too, is that she was just talking about Toby normally as the grand gesture dude. - I said, this is nice, but yeah. - And he kind of came up with something, because he made it seem like it was an emergency, it wasn't an emergency, it was actually a surprise, and it was a surprise that meant something. So, I don't, you guys clocked that-- - But even through all of that. - Even through all of that, he was like, apparently they like you a lot. - And this song, let me mean something to you. - I've never seen a guy who does, has such a selfless job, who just, who has such a stain, apparently-- - For everybody and everything. - Apparently these orphans, they're orphans, I don't think, they're not, they're not orphans. Oh, I thought they were orphans. The anyways, they want to sing you a song. - I was thinking about it, by the way, by the way, nothing in my life makes me happier than making you too laugh. But if you are just listening and not watching, when Sterling goes quiet-- - It's because he's got it. - That's because I made him laugh too hard. I need you the listener to know, because it sounds like I'm bombing, because Sterling goes quiet, and he falls over, when he get a microphone down there on the couch to get the wheezing. - It's like, "No, no, we don't need listeners, we need the viewers." - I need you to see it, because it ceases to be audible, but I am killing in here, all right? And I need you to know. - Even Todd, Todd is really using it back there too. - You are killing, you always kill him. - So yeah, so he gets her in there and they sing, they sing-- - Time after time. - Time after time. And then the next thing is-- - Toby surprises her for her birthday. - Well, she's at home, she's at home, and he sends the text, being like, "Hey, is it too late to give you like the last birthday?" Where she's like, "No, I'm still up." And then you hear happy birthday, happy birthday, right around the corner. You're like, "Oh, you all smooth fox." Sometimes, like Christopher Joseph Sullivan, I'm gonna call Christopher De Javion, or something like that, 'cause he's like, "Hey, what's up, girl?" You know what I'm saying? I'm here for you right now. - De Javion. - De Javion, you know what I'm saying? (laughing) - I love it. - But it wasn't. - If you call me De Javion, for the rest of my life, I'll be okay with that. - Christopher De Javion, you better get over here. Listen, there's something, 'cause we know it's happening, like, and we're like seeing it happen in degrees. Small little things, but at this moment, you're like, "It's still good, it's still good." Like, there's this part of me watching, I was like, "How's that gonna happen?" They're still good, you know? He's still digesturing for her birthday. - Yeah, he made it back. He made it back. So, okay, that's that. When we do Kav before, 'cause I think mom's is actually, like, mom McGill, and et cetera. Nikki. Kav, the book in for him is, we see him dancing with the two models on his birthday, talking about the challenge, et cetera. And then, we see him with his two babies, right? - Yeah, he goes from, like, - Yeah. - Women to two babies. - Women to two couple of babies. - He is very happy with these two babies. - The garage door opens and we're like, is Kevin Pearson, America's favorite man, he living in the garage? - Yeah. - And he is. - He is in the garage. He comes inside. - Exposition, he is decided to still live with Madison to help raise the children, and he's living in the garage. - Yeah. - And it seems like it's a harmonious, co-parenting situation. - Yeah, they're kind of like finishing each other sentences, and it's like coming in with a ripe baby and she smells the butt, and it's, yeah. I mean, it's like there's just this cute little pattern between them. - Here's something about the smell. I will say that. Like, did you guys experience, 'cause it's more recent for you, when your children start eating solid food, the switch, - Jiminy Christmas. - Oh yeah, where it's like real poop? - It was, like before you're like, "Oh goodness, crisis, look at you." - And then you give 'em that food. - Yeah, yeah, and it's mostly cheese. - Yeah. - It's just cheese quesadillas. That's all we got. - Cheese quesadillas, that'll do it. - Just cheese quesadillas. - Yeah, and then it becomes real human excrement. - There you go. - And then I tell Rager, I think we have a problem, 'cause our bathroom smells like an old folks home. There's something different happening. - Someone died. - Yeah. - It's bad. - I have one kid. I'm not gonna put, I have two kids. They're both him, so that didn't do it. - Yeah. - Who's flatulent? It's so powerful. - Yeah. - Do we think it's dairy? - Well, we don't do a ton of dairy in this house. Oh no, bro, but like, you know how it's supposed to dissipate? - Yeah. - It doesn't exist like-- - It's like a bomb. - He's got, he's got secret pop tarts. - It's like that. - It's just like cloud. - You know how pig pin walks around? - Yeah, yeah. - And that. - It just like follows. - Yeah. And like it always will happen when we're like on the on the corner turning towards the house and we're about 30 seconds from getting to the crib. Yeah. Yeah. You could have held that. Yeah, because I heard it come out and I know what an escape is. Yep. And I know what a bush is. Yeah. And it was a push. Yeah. You pushed that. It was intentional. You put you know what I'm saying? We're in a confined place. We're close enough. You can walk. That's what I should have done. Because they're both old enough to do it. So next time. Yeah. Next time. Next time you go. Well, I heard they start to stink. As they as they get to the puberty, they start to just smell a friend of mine. A friend of mine told me because she had a boy and a girl who were like two years apart, but they shared a room for a lot of time. And she was like, when? She kind of asked her doctor or some I don't remember who, but she was like, when do we know when it's time for them to stop sharing a room? And she goes, you'll know he'll start to stink. And and I was like, what do you mean? And then I went to visit them and I gave him a hug. And I was like, whoa. Wow. And and I gave him that hug. He had just gotten out of the shower. Dream was, I mean, he had gotten dressed and he was freshly bathed. Really. And I was like, wow. Wait a minute. Wow. Hold on. Have we gotten into this before? This is a tangent. All right. Is it a white people thing? Yeah, it is. Fair enough. Fair enough. Do you use a washcloth? Me in the shower or something? I'll do it for Alufa. Thank you, Christopher. Because a lot of white folks don't be scrubbed. Jadevian. Jadevian. That's right. You need to scrub. I've also heard this weird thing about folks not washing the bottom half of their body. Believe me, let the soap trickles down and it's supposed to do the job for you. You better scrub white people. I don't scrub. You just do the hand. I just do my hands. Scrubs. You don't use Alufa or a washcloth or nothing. Now, are you sure? - I guess it is a white person thing, I don't. - Maybe. - My body. - Maybe also only bathes in the morning rain. (laughing) - I shave so there's some exfoliation for my body there. - There's a exfoliation in there. - I mean, I will use like a salt scrub, but not every night. - Yeah, not every night. I use a wise call every time. - Do we have to exfoliate every day? - Maybe not, I don't know. - Subscribe, subscribe, and comment. - I wanna hear everybody's take on this. - Yeah, like every other podcast has talked about this. So it's our turn. - It's our turn. - I do it every day. I mean, I only wash with the washcloth. 'Cause I think it feels good. I feel cleaner. - It does feel good. - Yeah. - And I'm sure you probably feel cleaner. I'm not sure, like, I wonder what a dermatologist would say. Is it the best? - Dermatologist way in. - Our next child was us. We just sit with a dermatologist. - So here's the thing, I don't do my face. I don't do my, I just use the hands for the face, 'cause I think it's too rough for the face. - Got it. - I do it for the rest of the body. - And I'm telling you, this young man that you went and hugged, he went and scrubbing. - Well, yeah. - But it's funny, I do do it for my kids. - You do for your kids? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with the washcloth. - Yeah. - Yeah. - On the body. - Okay, interesting. I just don't have to ask that question. Because, yeah, they do. And like, Amari's using the odorant now. He'll be 11 in September. But like. - When is the change? - It's like 10, 9, 10, what not? Because he still in his youthful mind wants to shower intermittently. I'm like, bro, it has to happen every day now. He's like, but I didn't do anything. I was like, you were alive. - Yeah. - And his hormones are kicking. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta do it every day. - Oh my God, you guys. I can't believe that that's gonna happen. - It's totally coming. - Yeah, your house gonna be super stinky. - So stinky. - Super, yeah. - Okay, so. There are, Kev's, but he's gonna take the kids to the birthday party. - Yeah. - Ask Madison if she wants to come. She's like, it's a family thing. I got my book club coming over. They do sci-fi, nerd book stuff. And he's like, it sounds kind of geeking. She's like, whatever, you can kiss my butt. So it takes the kids to the party. She has her book club thing. And this is the-- - First, he goes to visit the guy who created the Manny about rebooting the Manny. - Let's talk about Santino. - Yeah. - One of the four Andrew Santino's. - Santino's a beast. - He's so great. - You guys watched Santino stand up? Yeah, oh yeah. - I haven't watched it now. - Oh, you're in for a treat. - Yeah, his last special is great. - He's fucking fantastic, hysterical. Did you watch him on Dave? - Yeah. - Of course. - Oh yeah, okay, okay, okay. - He's so brilliant on Dave. - He's so damn good. And he's so, the conversation is about, like, I saw you in last movie. - Yeah, I know what's out there for you. He's, you should take this. - Yeah. - You should take this. You should make a million. You should make a trillion dollars. - Show up. - Like, be here for your family. - And be here for your family. - Yeah. - You have to, like, go to bed, go to bed. - Yeah, all right. Will you slow me this up? - Yeah. - Indies. - Which is, R-I-P. - R-I-P. - R-I-P. - R-I-P. And Justin, or Kevin says, over my dead body. And he immediately goes, "Oh, thank God." (laughing) - Yeah. - Is there really really so perfect? - They're rebooting them. - They both are like, "We don't want you to do this." And he's like, "You should." - Yeah. - But he was relieved when Kevin was like, "Absolutely not." - You're not gonna play the manning. - You're gonna have to play the dad. You're too old to play the manning. - That's right. - Yeah. - So by the way, I was like five years ago. - Yeah. - And TV time. - TV time. - Too old. - Now, baby. - Too old. - Go to the party. I want to say, like, do I say this? Now, because it'll come back over. We'll say this, 'cause then we'll go back and to Rebecca at the end though. There's a whole thing with Rebecca in the memory. - Well, should we just, should we do, they-- - Finish the thing, Mrs. Rose. - Let's just do the Madison, like, getting home to the bus club. - That's fine. - Elijah who's like in the book club. - Come back. Elijah, I feel like represents Dan. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Of all the characters. - Any character, like, in terms of Dan's casting. - Yeah. - And Dan realized he had backed himself into a corner by partnering his wife with Justin Hartley. And he was like, how did I get out of this? - How I extricate her from him. - He was TV-me. - Yeah. (laughing) - And the guy, what's his, he's so charming. - He is so fantastic, Elijah. - He's one. - He's played by Adam Corson. - Yeah. - He's wonderful. - And yeah, you got to get someone here for sure. - The chemistry, like, the comedy chemistry and also just a traction that exists between him and Madison is palpable from the beginning. And very discomforting for Kevin. - Yes. - Right? - He's like, he calls her Maddie. He's the first person that's ever, like, you know, used that as a matter. - Mad is all kinds of intimacies going on. - That is a very, very much a familiarity between them. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, well, you know, maybe we should get out of here so she can give her some space of what not. And he's like, let's, you know, you want to help with the dishes. - You need help doing them dishes? TV, Dan. - He stays and he helps with the dishes of what not. And then when Kevin comes back again, he's still there watching, like, something on TV together. Although he does sort of charm. Kevin says, like, look, man, I just had to tell you, Hill 400 is the shit. Like, I think you were absolutely fantastic in this. And after Kevin had to hear the bad news early in the day, he's like, okay. - Oh. - This guy's not so bad. - He's not so bad. - I like this guy. - Yeah. - But he just says, doesn't seem to leave, right? He's not a girl. And even at the very end, he's like, oh, I guess it's getting late. - Yeah. - It's time for me to go, you know what I'm saying? - Do you guys like it when someone pulls a project? That's kind of offbeat when they meet you. And they pull an offbeat project that you're brutal proud of? - Every time. - And you're like, what the? - You want to get it? - Good. - Yeah. - Give me off the beaten pad. - Okay, be resume, I'm like, all right, give me a hug. - Yeah. - Give me a, where do you want a photo? - I'll give you a hug. - Here's 10 bucks. All right, cool. (laughing) - And at the end of the day, like he even says to Madison, he's like, I don't know if I like him when he calls you Matty. And he says, you know, people can't say that I was crazy for moving in the garage to be close to you, to be with the kids. And maybe now I'm starting to see their point, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Because it's becoming clear, like she's gonna move on with her life. - Mm-hmm. - She has every right, and you know, like he said something about, you know, you jilting me at the altar, and she's like, I didn't jilt you at the altar. I guess you could read that one of two ways. You know, maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but like I think the right decision was made. - Period. - Period. - Yeah. - For both of them, right? - Yeah. - And the way that the whole thing ends is we see my man going to his sister's house with his bags in his hand. - Which is. - What happened in the pilot too, right? - Yeah. After he walked out of the job. - Yeah. - So it's like, yeah, all these bookend echoey moments that he sees Kate and basically talks about how he's worried about not raising his kids in the same house. And he tells her that, you know what, he is gonna take this manny reboot. He's gonna give the kids some stability. And, you know, he's worried about his mom. He's like, mom is sick. And like, I wish I could stop it essentially. Like, it feels crazy that the world keeps on spinning when this is happening to us. - That part. - Right? - That one got me. - Yeah, me too. I was just like, oh. - That one got me. Like, there are these moments in life. I was like, well, isn't everything else supposed to pause? Like, I need a moment to deal with this thing that's happening right now. Can everybody pause? I felt that during the pandemic. I was like, oh, it's a global pandemic. I think racism will take a pause. - Yeah. - And then I was like, no. Not even that. And like, that should be a pause button. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And then Kate sort of points out, like, you know, there's the good things still need to come to you as well. Like, we feel like we need it, but actually what you need to do is to keep moving. - Right. - Keep going for it. She said earlier, like, you know, your kids may not have what we have, but they'll have something different and they'll be okay. Right? - That's right. - And she helps him reflect back. Like, do you remember where we were five years ago? Remember what our life was like? And now look at where we are. We both have two beautiful, amazing children. And like, our lives are unimaginably better. We have jobs that we're both, that we both love and we're thriving in. And, you know, it's like we found the light before and we will find it again. - As human beings, we have this negativity bias, right? We get stuck on the negative things and not. I mean, our show talks about, I mean, Beth, Beth put it really well about these tragedies are the fence posts on which we hang our lives, you know, all those things, the, I think in here, somebody says, what the world keeps going so we can find that crack of light on the other side of the door, you know. We found that light before Big Brother and we'll find it again. - There you go. - You know, that's that Leonard Cohn quote, the cracks are where the light gets in. - Mm-hmm. - You know, and we need all of these painful things. To put everything in perspective. - Yeah. - Yeah, the balance. - I mean, they sort of help to frame the appreciation for what is in front of you. - Yeah. Like, if everything was one thing, - Yeah. - There would be no appreciation. I say that, like, when I think about like my kids sometimes, I was like, how come they don't appreciate that I have to like drive, hear or do this or change this or because everything has been a certain way. - Yeah. - I was like, what a blessing. - Why do they keep filling my car with farts? (laughing) - What a blessing for them. And then one day, there will be perspective. And I'll be around when that thing happens for them. And they'll come around. I know they'll come around and they're like, "Hey, you know when I used to do this or something?" - That's what I used to fill your car with farts. - With just like, particles, particles. It's not possible to really have that reflection back. You need time. You need time. You need experience. Yeah, and explain it to someone. No, no. It's like they're, they will eventually hit them the way that it has hit all of us, you know, and new and profound ways. It's like becoming a parent is a whole new wave of appreciation and gratitude washes over you. Sure. And each milestone that you reach, it's like more and more. It's, it's, yeah, it's pretty crazy, but you can't rush that. It just happens in its own time. Rebecca McGell and Nikki got there at the, they're at the Griffith Park trains. Yeah. Nikki gets, Nikki gets a little bit of exposition out that he's, he's been living on Facebook, right? Trying to find, he's found Sally and he keeps losing the nerve to reach out and contact her. I guess, I guess I'll just live in this forever. And, and then we have the greatest, we have the greatest moment, in my opinion, of acting in the entirety of the show, which is the delivery from Mandy Moore as 65, 70 year old Rebecca, when she says, Oh, Nikki Shush. For what she was, wait, really? Full transformation into old lady. It's very funny. Oh, Nikki Shush. You delivered it. So like, I was like, is that a 70 year old lady? Oh, no, that's Mandy. No, shut up. Oh, it is. It's great. It's great. It's a person word. And I was like, I can, my mother has said that to me, my grandmother, the, oh, Christopher Shush. Yes. Oh, you should, you just Shush because old ladies of their jurors can't say, would you shut them? That would be a variation. It's a word that's for sure for a certain age. Yeah. I would never tell someone to Shush. Right, right. We haven't reached that age yet. I also need to make a note, because this is the first time I think we've seen this version of Young Jack. This is the cutest little boy. I think that exists on those planet. Yeah. Is he's just listening to your story? And he's like, uh-huh. Yeah. I'm like, oh, my, I love this kid. I want to eat him. He is precious. He's special. Precious. But I just, I, like, I remember seeing his face for the first time and just being like, I want to take care of this little boy. Johnny. Johnny. Johnny. This is the first time we're meeting Johnny. So first time we meet in John. Yeah. As young Jack. Yeah. Baby Jack. He kind of, he kind of, like, owns this role at that point because it's, yeah. He's so precocious and just like you, the active listening. Yeah. Because it's what he has at his disposal. But like, as an audience member watching him, he's like, oh, this kid is in it. Yeah. Like he is like, and I don't know what kind of camaraderie you guys. I remember, like, seeing you, like, hang out and play with them, like off camera, what? Yeah. He was such a joyful little guy is, I'm sure. It was the same thing I would do with the dog. I just put a little tune in my mouth. And he loved it. Because this is the year. Is this the year where he walks to the park? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, Johnny's with us for the entirety of this season. Yeah. He's such a special little force. Yeah. He was an incredible listener. Yeah. An incredible, like, took direction. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, which is the superpower of this kid, right? Because if I could get one of my children to listen the way this child listens, yeah. It would just be a miracle. Rebecca tells him about, like her story about her connection to trains, right? They're on trains and her dad took her every Sunday when he was going into the office in the city. He would take her on the train and he would be reading his book, which was she remembers him reading catcher on the ride on the train. Yeah. And they would sit across from each other and when they got close to their stop, he would take her to the fairy front of the train and they would walk through each car until they got to the back of the train, which was the, and you just see her, like, telling the story and not being able to remember the name, which we all happens to me all the time, right? Just can't remember what the name of whatever the word is or the name of the person or and in this case, it's just it's the last car of the train. You see her trying to get there and she's like, no, no, no, no, no, don't tell me, don't tell me, like, this is something that's happening more frequently and you can tell that she has this rapport with Miguel. I'm going to get there on my own. No. This is going to bother me until I get there. Right. And throughout the course of this part of the story, we see her trying to retrace, like, okay, if I'm not going to get it from remembering this story with my dad, I used to read the book to my kids and it was called The Little Red. So it's like, you see her trying to piece together and like going through these like, there's this great shot of right of like, like, it's sort of like speeds up and you see them like her reading on the couch to the kids and you see her on the train with her dad. It's like the synapses of her brain trying to figure out what this word is she can't she can't get to, right? Yeah, juxtaposed with Rebecca present day at the birthday party for the kids trying to remember this word in her own head kind of like calling out, you know, she basically is like, yeah, in a moment of like utter frustration. The red one damn it. Yeah. And everybody kind of like stops and is like, what? What now? Yeah, I'm sorry. What? And she has to admit, like, sorry, I've been in my head all day and, you know, I finally got the results of my pet scan and I have these plaques forming in my brain and so anyway, the disease is advancing. Yeah. And, you know, she essentially is is letting us and the audience know that we're not coming back from us. We're not coming back. We're not we're not slowing the progression down. The train is moving. This metaphor is like steeped into this episode. Yeah. Yeah. You know, she gets back from the party and Nikki is still complaining about, you know, it's like, well, the day is over and Nikki again is like, doesn't have the like fortitude to figure, you know, fight Sally. Also, this is this is my hot take. Like the fact that they gave Griffin done this dialogue of him talking to himself of just like, well, I guess it's just never going to happen for me. Like, just like we get it. We get it. Yeah. And Rebecca says as much. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Rebecca's like, would you stop it? Yeah. Would you stop it with this writing? Yeah. We have to do something about this. Okay. All right, writers, next episode. We're going on a road trip. We're going to go find this lady. Because I'm sick of hearing this guy complain. Yeah. Life is too short. Life is too short. Life is too short to have one of the greatest living actors delivering this line like this. Yeah, muttering to himself. Let's go. Let's go see Sally. She's like pack a bag. Yeah. We're going to see Sally. Yeah. But when does she finally figure out the word? Is it the end of the episode? Yeah. Very, very, very end of the episode. Nicky's now often his room doing whatever it does. It is room on face five stuff. Yeah. Spreading conspiracy theories. Yeah. You're about these crap circles. You know, just like whatever it is on Facebook that he's sharing and liking. But it's that you and Miguel together and they're sitting there on the couch. I don't remember. Oh, perfect. That's very funny. That's very funny. It's, it's caboose. No, I do remember the words. Yeah. But I don't remember how it, it just hits her. Yeah, you, I think it's, it's you and, and young Tim Matheson looking like good casting, by the way. And you're just in the back of the train or whatnot. I don't know if he says it or, but you, it just sort of comes. Yeah, it comes back to her. Yeah, I think you see him like a mouth, the word. Oh, and then it, and then she says it. Yeah, yeah. And then I was promptly like, I mean, like, it's, it's money as an audience. I was like, I was like, I would look at the TV and I'm watching. I'm just like, it's caboose. Just say it. Just say it. Just say it. Just go, go, go. Go ahead. Just prompting her. Just so painful and also. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The world. It's like that. The world's funniest word, not to remember. Caboose made it. It was interesting. It was a great episode. It was a great, come, come back into season six. Yeah, after that five, 16, welcome to season six. Welcome to season six. That was us. That's, we are. This is what we're doing right now. It's happening. I guess we should not have to be in it right now. Yeah, we're doing what we did. You get, you get the good stuff at the end. You know, sometimes I love it. I love it when they show like title sequences, like at the end of a movie. You know, you don't get it all at the beginning and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, that was the name of the movie. Yeah, I like that. That's like the end of a Pixar movie. Yes, exactly. Yeah. When we come back, we're going to have our favorite segment, our fan segment. I think we're going to be reading an email from a fan of the show. Very beautiful. So stick around for more of that was us. Welcome back to our fan segment. It is our favorite segment of the podcast. Even though we've officially started season six, there's still a lot of lingering shock from that season five finale, especially Madison and Kevin calling off their wedding. Our producers pulled an email from a listener who said that she related to that moment in more ways than one We're gonna read it and react together. So let's get into it shall I? Yeah, this is an email. You started literally popcorn read it popcorn. Yeah, did you guys not do that in school? What's this? Let's start reading and then when you when you want to hand it off you go popcorn Mandy, okay, and then Mandy and then Mandy takes it. Okay. All right. I did it and it's gonna be a terribly Let's see that was us podcast. Yeah, last month I called off my wedding after an almost 10-year relationship. Okay. All right. Sorry. Oh boy. I'm sorry and your podcast has really been helping me get through this time And I have something to look forward to each week. I suddenly had to call off my wedding after my fiancé Who I felt was the love of my life revealed he had been hiding almost $1,000 of debt and had been dishonest to me and my family for years popcorn Jeez, I tried to make it man This is us is one of my favorite shows calling off my wedding has been the hardest thing I have ever done And I'm a PhD student But the show is giving me new outlooks on life. I'm only 24 So I hope there's still a bright future ahead of me, but it feels so hard To call off a wedding with someone you pictured a future with and still love deeply I find great solace in Madison story Having the courage to call off a wedding when you're in love and excited your friends and family are excited And the venue has been paid for is a lot to face, but she did what was right for her and so am I popcorn I'm also taking solace in Katobie's story They showed me it's possible to have a wonderful relationship that is just not meant to last a lifetime I think it's okay that even though after giving someone your whole heart for years You can recognize it's okay to let go and find new happiness Thank you all so much for your talents this show and your heart felt storytelling in both fictional and Non-fictional worlds peace and love Sophia PS I love that sterling Talks too much I'll happily listen to every word. She didn't say it like that. She did because at the end There was a winky face. She did. That's why I read that way Sophia how appreciate you Sophia wasn't a tremendous thing to have to go through We talked about this before too with regards to Madison, Kevin I'm glad it happened before the wedding. Yes. Can we also run some stats here? Go 24 years old. Yeah Ten-year relationship she said she did didn't she that made like high school since sophomore year of high school Yeah, freshman year of high school. Yeah for smart for for guys who got help back like me. This this was her person This was her personal. I mean, but also Little baby children. Yeah Little baby children. Yeah, I'm sure it doesn't feel this way to her now But 24 she is at the start of her life. She says I hopefully have a bright future in front of me You're a PhD student. Yeah, and you're 24. Yeah, you have the world the world is your oyster out of you Sophia Yeah, listen to me. It is only just beginning. Tyler You did the bravest Most challenging thing ever But it sounds like the absolute right move for both of you. Yeah, sounds like your partner needs to figure out His or her their life needs to declare bankruptcy. Yeah, yeah, also a little baby boy. Yeah, I think right I mean, I'm just it's like that is a wild thing and and it sounds like you made the right choice, but like If we if we zoom out like we were talking about in this episode, but like what's going on there? It's like he's got a lot to work on - and we'll get it and he will get it figured out. Yes Knock on wood. Yeah, we'll head down the path. He's supposed to head down But you have so much time to find your person and your place You are just at the very beginning and I know this is a painful chapter But there will be a silver lining. There will be a way to use this pain and this grief It will help you and the next chapter with the next person go. This is what I want This is what I don't want. These are my non-negotiables like I think it's all Yeah, it's all fuel for getting what you want what you deserve, you know It's grist for the milk. It's grist for them. I had a I had a I had a very wise I'll do Judith light. Yeah, I went to her for counsel one time and there's some really tough stuff going on on my life And she said Chris I don't know I this cannot be explained to a person It has to be experienced, but this is just content Hmm. This is all just content. Yeah, grist for the milk Yeah, and I don't know why it made so much sense in the moment when she said it to me I don't know if it makes sense now, but it's like it's just a thing that happens and now you are Evolving in a different way. Yeah And the and like we talked about in this in this episode these are hard things Yeah, but they give you a chance to define yourself Yeah, and it gives you you have to get through them in order to get to the other side and be able to reflect back and have that experience like it's it's just In inevitability and part of the human condition yeah, and and Sophia will persevere through this moment and I'm so grateful that our little corner of of the podcast world could bring her any Bit of solace in this show could bring her any bit of solace But it is It's going to be the best thing It will sterling say some to Sophia that she can rewind over and over again. Let's say this real quick She likes how much you talk grist refers to grain that is brought to a mill to be ground in the flower Historically whenever a farmer brought grain to the mill the miller could turn it into a useful product and make a profit Consequently every bit of grain delivered regardless of its size or source was added value to the business I never knew what it meant. And I was actually like so it's a value ad for your life. Yes, right even though it feels like pain Yeah, and grief and shock and trauma and all of that You will be able to process it into something that you can use the little acorn must die for the mighty oak to grow Yeah, ladies and gentlemen. That was another episode of That was us. Thank you for joining myself Christopher the JV on the JV on Amanda Lee. I'm sterling Kovie. We love you. So we love you. We love you. Thank you for sharing your letter. Thank you for sharing Godspeed to your sister I wish the young man all the best like Chris said. Yeah, everybody's got lessons that they need to learn Man, hey, don't be hiding money from people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Be upfront because I think sometimes there may be some pride at work. They're feeling like ah I should be taking care of this and I haven't taken care of it You have to face it head on rather than running away from yeah Because I think that would have been easier for Sophia to possibly digest than having to find out on her own right 602 is another good one. Okay. Yeah, we got another good one coming. We're gonna be coming next time in a second after you like subscribe Go support a sponsor. Yeah, tell your friend then tune right back in Visitors visit us on speedpipe. We still get speakpipe speakpipe. Speakpipe. It's always a question mark. Yeah, yeah, speak and run Speaky peepies Speaky peepie. I can't slash that with us. Ladies and gentlemen, that was us That was us is filmed at rabbit-grin studios and produced by rabbit-grin productions music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith That was a headgun podcast