3: A Boy Enters And A Man Leaves

Let us roll up our sleeves to roll back this awful tide of violence and reduce crime in our country. We have the tools now. Let us get about the business of using them. In the mid-90s, this was the national mood. Crime was the political issue for President Clinton, and juvenile crime was a big focus. Now too many kids don't have parents who care. These and drugs have taken over our streets and undermined our schools. Every day we read about somebody else who has literally gotten away with murder. Also in the 90s, a 13-year-old TJ was getting into a lot of trouble. His aunt Shar would pick him up from the police station. He was young. He don't know. He was a boy. They say boys will be boys. But these are little things that the throwing a rock but not breaking anything. But I think the whole thing is that they wanted him off of the streets. On February 3rd, 1993, a 19-year-old man named Eric Moro was murdered. He was shot next to a honey baked ham store on Belmont Avenue on the northwest side of Chicago. TJ says he was at his grandmother's house doing his homework when the shooting happened. And his family was there with him. But the police had four supposed eyewitnesses who said he was a shooter. And at just 13 years old, TJ was a member of the Simon City Royals, a violent street gang. He had an extensive rap sheet. For the prosecutors, TJ's long-awrest record spoke for itself. It was only a matter of time before a kid like that would kill someone. TJ was exhibited for child gangmangers who terrorized the streets and they were going to squash him like a bug. From WBZ Chicago, I'm Frank Maine and this is Motive. A boy enters and a man leaves. The first few days of all this is a big blur because it all happened. I was confused. I was scared. So a lot of-- As a resident for murder, he was in seventh grade just a month away from his 14th birthday. During a deposition, almost 20 years later, TJ talked about what happened next. I was placed in a room and handcuffed to the wall. A detective walks in. He asked me if I wanted to confess to a to kill an Eric. What did you say? I told my didn't kill Eric. He told me that it would be a lot easier on me if I confessed that if I denied it, it would just make things harder for me and court. Did you shoot Eric Moral? No. Do you know who shot Eric Moral? No, I don't. We're all by my mom's house. Everybody's over the whole family. We're all trying to figure this out. Vicki came back after her restaurant shift to learn that her son TJ had been arrested for murder. She says she went totally ballistic. So we don't know what the hell to do? Did you ever ask to make a phone call? I asked to speak with my mother. TJ calls and everybody goes to CJ's. What did you say to her? She asked me if I was okay. How I was doing. It's definitely that. He says, "Mom, I didn't do it. I go teach you. I know you didn't do it." That's what I was scared. I was crying. I'm crying. I go, "I know, baby. Don't worry. Don't worry. We're going to get you home. Don't worry, you know?" Because at that point, I believed in her justice system. Now you can take it and shove it up your ass. Vicki was feeling desperate. She frantically called the police station. Finally, the detective picked up. I said, "You please tell me what time this was supposed to happen." And he says, "Between 6 and 6.30, I go totally impossible. Totally impossible. Because it was here with me." And then he goes, "Oh, you're the mother. You were in line." Vicki thought the detectives were just out to get TJ. Ignoring evidence in order to clear yet another murder of their books, she felt like she needed to do something. Everybody with the name he managed is thinking, "I'm Spanish. So I have that advantage because nobody knows what I look like." You're undercover. Vicki went to the murder scene. She scoped out where the eye witnesses supposedly saw TJ shoot Eric Moro that she went to a bar across the street. Vicki sat down, ordered a drink, and began talking to the bartender. "As a man, there was a shooting across the street." The bartender says, "Yeah, some punk kid named TJ killed a guy." Vicki blew her cover. "I go out and his mother." And that's when he told me to finish my beer and get that apple out in plain English. Vicki did the best she could, but her amateur detective work didn't turn up much. She put a jar in her mom's house. If you walked in, whatever change you had in your pocket went into that jar to help pay for a lawyer. TJ was moved from the police station to a jail for juveniles. Soon he turned 14. He spent almost two years in that jail awaiting trial. On the south side, there's a former school that now houses the precious blood ministry, a Catholic organization that serves at-risk kids. "How are you? How are you? Thanks for doing it." Father Dave Kelly has spent decades ministering to juvenile inmates. "I always say that if I ever go in there and I'm not moved, almost to tears at what we're doing to our children, then I need to get out of the business. So I guess I'm not burned out. Yeah." The juvenile temporary detention center is a sprawling white building on the near west side. It's where kids from Chicago are locked up while they wait for their court hearings. Some of the kids look really young. Others have beards. Some are there for trespassing. Others like TJ are there for murder. Do you think that things have improved there over all of these years? Yes and no. I mean, the staff there are good people. I think though that it's still a jail and they probably have inch closer to being more adult like in the way they treat the kids. Most people refer to the juvenile detention center by its original name, the Audi Home. It has a long history going back to 1899. We have the first juvenile court in this country. I think we'd get better at it, wouldn't you? So how would you describe the juvenile inmates you work with? They are like every other kid in the world. They can be knuckleheads. They can be a pain in the butt and they can be the most wonderful persons you've ever run across. The part that perhaps is different is that their stories are filled with trauma and disappointments and abandonment and violence. We have a vision of what a kid locked up is like. He's a dirty thug gang banger as they say. And when you meet him, wait a minute. This is why I can't find a grand kid or my nephew or my whatever. Father Kelly has been doing this work for 40 years. He's interacted with thousands of kids in the juvenile system, but TJ sticks out. I guess I just remember him because of the severity of his crime, but also the very small nature of this kid, a very white, complex, like, complex kid. That kind of a thing. Very articulate, very easy to talk to, engaged in conversation, wanted to talk to you. Most of them do, but he was particularly engaging. Father Kelly met with TJ almost weekly. I would go up in the living pod and it was basically one on one, a ministry of presence. We oftentimes say, "Just be there. How you doing? How you doing? What's going on?" Things like that. Someone he could count on to come and see him and talk with him, but not have an agenda. From 14 to 16, TJ lived in the Audi home. It was a time of his life and most kids are learning the awkward rules of dating, stressing about final exams and getting their first jobs. In jail, TJ kept his head on a swivel, fights broke out all the time, but Friday nights after school were the worst. According to TJ, big kids would choose to score off against little kids like himself. The beatings didn't end until the winners got tired. TJ says that the guards cheered and supposedly called the fights gladiator school. The only thing TJ says he looked forward to were the days that his mom would come to see him. Vicky'd visit every Wednesday and Sunday, but she wasn't allowed to get very close to her son. And I'd be crying for chairs. I couldn't sit here. He couldn't sit there. We had to sit across from each other. And he was worried. It's my mom. And then TJ told me, there's a reason for rules. So then, because he cried because he, of course, you think I didn't want to hung him? For one of my interviews with Vicky, I met her at a close friend's house. How are you? I'm all right. You all right? You all right, you all right? Come on in. Come on in. Her Chihuahua didn't seem to want me there. He's going to try and get your feet. No, is he? Yeah. All right, I'll kick your ass. Charmaine Hanson and Vicky grew up together. They call each other cousins, even though they're not related. Everybody calls me Ann Schar. Did TJ call you Ann Schar? Oh, it till this day. Ann Schar would also visit TJ in the audio home. She'd break the rules by sneaking him sandwiches and other food in her bra. I said, you better appreciate these chicken wings too, because I have a blister on my breast. Because your aunt Sue didn't wrap him the right way. TJ's extended family would drive to a street outside his jail cell. Then wave, or TJ looked through the window. We'd go in four or five cars and we'd have signs and on shit for TJ. One time I wound them. TJ didn't like that at all. The windows were high in the cells. The kids would lean their beds against the wall, then climb up to wave and thump on the glass. That was every night. Father Kelly says that would get the kids in trouble. Why? There's a lot of rules in there that don't make any sense. So kids know me. And when they're walking through the halls, hands behind their back and no talking. I'm walking behind them so a kid goes, "Hey, Father Kelly, please just out shake my hand." So he gets in trouble. Now what's the message? Don't be respectful to appreciate your elder? What possible negative thing could that be? What negative thing could put my bed up and see my mom be? So that TJ waving at his family through his cell window, does the justice system see him as a child or is he an adult? If TJ was found guilty of murder in the juvenile system, he'd be locked up for around 30 months. But if he was placed in the adult system, he was looking at 40 plus years. In the 80s and 90s, there was a lot of public fear about violent juvenile crime. Along with a widespread belief that juveniles were being treated too leniently. Many states enacted laws that dramatically increased the number of children prosecuted as adults. Father Kelly has seen many kids transferred to the adult system. We know that young people do not have the brain development to be able to make rational, calculated decisions. They're rash. Anybody knows a 14-year-old knows. By definition, they're not goheads. And so we hold them accountable as adults to ludicrous. Nobody else does that. And yet we still continue to hold children as adults and hold them accountable as though their brain was developed. It makes no sense to me. It's just punitive. TJ's probation officer said he had little remorse for his crimes and that he was warned that he could wind up in the adult system. The officer wrote a report concluding it would not be appropriate for the minor to be committed to the juvenile department of corrections for 30 months. The minor needs to be off the street for a much longer period of time than that. That report was handed to the juvenile court judge in TJ's murder case. According to Vicki, that judge in his mid-70s kept falling asleep during a hearing. And he kept referring to TJ by the wrong name. He called him TJ. The judge transferred TJ into the adult system. "That was horrible. Here's a little boy. This was a setup. It was just such a vicious circle that was happening through the whole trial." It's down to you. Your gift right now helps WBEZ unlock an extra $85,000. Support WBEZ's essential stories about politics, our economy, and Chicago Lands Arts and Culture scene, and your gift will be worth even more. If 1500 people donate by 7pm on June 23rd, WBEZ will earn this 85K from two anonymous donors. So please hurry. Give it WBEZ.org/donate. Thank you. When I walked into that courtroom, I was astonished and horrified at what I saw in the criminal justice system in Cook County. Carolyn Nielsen now teaches journalism in Washington State. In November 1994, she was a journalism student in Chicago. I'm 47 years old now, and there's a lot about this that still sticks with me. As part of her graduate program, Carolyn elected to get some experience covering the Cook County courthouse. It's an old building. Al Capone went before judges there. It's a big place, and there's a lot going on. There'd be someone coming in and they'd give a plea, and the whole thing would take maybe two minutes, right? This would be repeated like 20 times. It's kind of like a justice factory, huh? It did feel that way, I think, yeah. Carolyn wound up sitting through most of TJ's three day trial. In the gallery, it was usually just her, TJ's family, and the family of the victim, Eric Moro. It's a small courtroom, and then there's this huge bulletproof glass between the observers and the rest of the courtroom. You know, it's a very kind of maximum security setting. On the other side of that glass, TJ's public defender is presented six alibi witnesses from his family. They claimed that they were with TJ at Granny's house when the murder happened. Prosecutors insinuated that TJ's family was covering up for them. And they go, oh, but it's the ants, the cousins, you know, distant dead. Who's supposed to be in my mother's house, the mailman? Then Vicki got her chance on the stand. And then they said, what relationship are you to? My go, I'm his mother. They go, do love him very much. But you went live for murder. I go, not for murder. Maybe for something petty I would. I'm not going to say a wouldn't. But not for murder. I was raised a Catholic by two Polish grandmas. Know that is installed in me for life. And I for an eye, you know what I mean? State's attorneys produced four witnesses to the killing who said TJ did it. And the star witness was a 14 year old kid. TJ's friend from the PV royals, Larry Toofl. At the time I was, I got dragged to court. They forced me to go. I didn't want to tell testify against him. Larry was getting pressure on both sides. On the one hand, the government desperately wanted him to testify against TJ. On the other, the Simon City royals didn't want him to rat out one of their own. They threatened him to keep quiet. This I keep my mouth shut, don't say nothing. And I already had got subpoenaed a couple of times. And I didn't want to go. I used to tell my mother, and I tell my wasn't there. And they caught me one time. I was in the room hiding and they handcuffed me and dragged me. I got arrested and wasn't jailed for a while because I didn't want to tell them what happened. Now normally, a witness and a defendant aren't meant to be held in the same spot. But on one of those occasions when Larry was arrested for refusing a subpoena, TJ says Larry wound up sitting right next to him in one of the holding bullpins at the courthouse. He was scheduled to testify that day. At first I said, what's up? He said, what's up? Back to me. You say what? I said, what's going on? Why are you doing this? What he said? He said they told him to him. That was his response. They told him to him. They made him. And did he say who they was? No. We got interrupted right at that point. We got interrupted. What did you take it to mean? Somebody made him. I don't know who he was talking about. I had no idea who he was talking about. Was Larry talking about the royals, the police, the lawyers, someone else? TJ didn't know. But Larry's testimony was crucial. He was the government's key eyewitness to the shooting and he said TJ did it. Larry went into court to testify. From the stand, he couldn't look TJ in the eye. I couldn't look at him. No. I felt really guilty. And when I did testify, I was talking very low. I guess they couldn't hear me well. I didn't really want to say that it was him. They were grilling me and I was in the hot seat. It was really bad. Over and over. During the testimony, Larry looked to the bulletproof glass. He says he saw a bunch of royals sitting in the benches. So they knew that I testified against him and then I was in trouble after that. They wanted to kill me. I got threatened. I got beat up a couple times. If I would have been in the right place at the right time, they probably could have killed me. Larry was a snitch. His testimony was a big no-no for any gang. Then the prosecution presented evidence at trial that TJ himself was directing the royals to kill Larry. You know, maybe now it's a good time to go through those letters. While TJ was in the Audi home, he wrote some letters to his girlfriend. And in those letters, he talked about Larry. Read me that sentence. So I hear the royals. I can't see the word but I'm soon looking for Larry. You see I got connections in and out of jail. In another letter, TJ talks about one of the leaders of the royals. "I'm gonna tell him to stop Larry from going to court in any way he has to, even if he has to kill him. It won't mean anything to me. It only takes the pull of a trigger." Prosecutors used the letters that TJ wrote to his girlfriend as evidence that he was directing the royals to silence their key witness. They argued TJ was essentially giving orders from jail, like a gang leader. The defense described the letters as a 14-year-old boy running his mouth and making things up to brag to his girlfriend. That same letter immediately continues. Tomorrow is Visiting Day and my mom is going to bring me a whole lot of shit. She's going to bring me some of those little handheld video games and a little Nerf basketball rim with the two suction cups to hold it up. And it has that sponge ball. I admit it. I still have a little kid in me. The prosecution may not have had any physical evidence or a confession, but they had Larry. They had the letters and they had the icing on the cake. TJ's prior arrests. Prosecutors highlighted that a rest record. They called TJ, quote, "one kid crime waive" and they said he had an unbelievable record of criminal conduct. "I'm not saying he was an angel. I told you that all the time. But it was never anything like violence, anything to do with guns or knives or that kind of ball bats, none of that." TJ was arrested 22 times before the murder. He's picked up for things like carving gang signs into his desk at school, stealing a bike, throwing rocks, taking his grandma's car out for a joy ride, shooting someone with a BB gun. That's the unbelievable record of criminal conduct. Carol and Nielsen listened in the gallery as prosecutors spelled out each crime for the jury. "There was this parade more than a dozen police witnesses who came and testified about these quote unquote crimes that to me seemed, I don't know, not so uncommon." In closing arguments, one of the prosecutors told the jury, he may look like a 13-year-old, but he is a cold-blooded killer with ice running through his veins. "They really pulled on all the stereotypes to construct this narrative of him as extremely dangerous. And it played into a very popular cultural narrative that was going on at that time." "When I signed this crime bill, we together are taking a big step toward bringing the laws of our land back into line with the values of our people." President Clinton's 1994 crime bill was a response to years of high murder rates. It was the single biggest criminal reform package in American history, and it's since been criticized for contributing to mass incarceration. "And a lot of the rhetoric at that time had to deal with violent juveniles and gangs, and it was really something that was in the public consciousness." "You must take back the streets. And you take back the streets by more cops, more prisons, more physical protection for the people." On the Senate floor, Joe Biden made a passionate case for getting criminals off the streets. He sponsored and partly wrote the crime bill. "We have an obligation to cordon them off from the rest of society, try to help them, but they are in jail. Away from my mother, your husband, our families." Just a little over a year after TJ's murder trial, Bruce Lady Hillary Clinton made her controversial remark about juvenile offenders, gang kids like TJ. "They are often the kinds of kids that are called super predators. No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heal." Nowadays, America is grappling with the consequences of those tough on crime policies. Did they put too many people in prison, guilty and innocent? Critics of the air essay they did. What's for sure is that cities like Chicago are not spending millions of dollars every year to compensate people for wrongful convictions handed down to the 90s. People like TJ. The jury had easily reached a verdict within a very short amount of time, a couple of hours. I just, it seemed so clear to me that there were things that needed a lot more consideration than they got. "It's our one they said, guilty. Wait a minute. No, this is not right, this is wrong. And there was nothing no one can do or say to help him." TJ broke down sobbing. Vicki freaked out. "I thought I was going to break that glass. I was kicking while he didn't do it, he didn't do it. Yeah, it was bad." Vicki was grieving for her son going to prison, but she couldn't escape thinking about the other mother in the courtroom. "I didn't say one word to her and I told my family not to say nothing to her because I lost a brother and my mother, if you talked about it 30 years later, she'd quite like it was yesterday. So I don't want to ever know that pain. So that's why I said nobody talks bad to her." Mary? Yes. Hi, it's Frank Mayne again. How are you? I'm fine. I'm sorry to make you walk through these memories again. No, that's okay. I just want to let you know I got a cough so that they start coughing. We'll stop and let you cough. Okay. Mary Moro is the mother of the murdered teenager Eric Moro. Though TJ's family filled more of the benches in the courtroom, the Moro family suffered through the trial as well. Back in the 1990s, were you convinced that justice was done when TJ was convicted for Eric's murder? I did. Just by going to court and hearing all the testimony and how his family was, they were nothing but punks and how they looked at us and you know that it was our fault. It was my son that was dead. How was it our fault? There was a lot of bad blood between TJ and Eric's families. Mary had a cousin who was a correctional officer. He arranged for the Moro's to get escorted out of the courthouse. I was scared to death. And then when we would come out, they were all standing out there. How did I know that they wouldn't try to shoot us or something? So why wouldn't I think that TJ did kill Eric? Less than a month after the verdict, everybody filed back into the courtroom for sentencing. The victim's family was allowed to make a statement. Mary Moro stood up. People at the trial remember her telling TJ that he should burn in hell and they should never be able to come home. Never be able to get married or have a family because her son was dead and he couldn't do those things. The judge addressed TJ and called him a little punk, probably too young to shave, but old enough to commit a vicious murder. He needed to be, quote, "removed from society" than the 15-year-old was sentenced to 50 years in prison. As the deputies grabbed TJ to take him back to the lock-up, he lunged at the prosecutor. TJ went to jump over the table for the state's attorney. This is all in the courtroom. Vicki also watched as her son flew at the prosecutor. He clipped him. It said in the paper he didn't clip him. He didn't get a good clip, but he got a clip. How many deputies took him down then? Oh my God, you would have thought that he was a dammer or somebody or the unabommer. The deputies tackled TJ to the ground and dragged him out of the courtroom. TJ was sent to a maximum security facility for boys. And he went in there so tiny when I went to see him. These guys look like grown men and I'd have to shake you and crying because I'm thinking I'm leaving my baby with this. As soon as TJ turned 17, he was sent to stateville, one of the toughest prisons in America. This time tick by, Vicki called the detective on the moral case twice a year. On TJ's birthday and on the day TJ was arrested. I'd call him up to remind him. Get out there and do your job and get the real killer. I said I'm still singing, hashing, pouring the coffee, doing my job. Why ain't you out there doing yours? TJ's growing up in prison, one year, two years, five years, ten years. Meanwhile the star witness, another boy, became an adult as well and he couldn't stop thinking about TJ. My conscience was killing me. I couldn't take it them. I felt like shit being, you know? I felt really bad being. I didn't want a lie. Next time on Motive, Larry Toofall has something to say. I just wanted to let that out of him. I huddled in for so long that it was just eating me up inside. I couldn't take it no more. I don't know if you believe me or not, but it's the truth. I felt really bad. I don't lie, man. I'm usually straight up down the earth person. I tell you the truth. Most of the time. Motive is a production of WBE Chicago based on original reporting from the Chicago Sun Times. The Frank Maine, the producer is Colin McNulty. The executive producer is Kevin Dawson. Our engineer is Shelley Stephens. Special thanks to the listeners whose financial support of WBE made this podcast possible.