#94 Leg Locks Have Changed Jiu-Jitsu: The History and context of the leg attack revolution.

[MUSIC] >> They're listening very carefully. [MUSIC] >> A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready. [MUSIC] >> Essentially, at this point, the fight is over. [MUSIC] >> So you pretty much flow with the goal. [MUSIC] >> Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limit this power? [MUSIC] >> I'm ready. >> Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another bulletproof with BJJ podcast. I am JT. >> Hey guys, I'm Joey. Are you not going to say some funny shit today? >> What? [LAUGH] >> Gotta mix it up, man. >> I was like flexing and getting ready. I'm like, come on motherfucker. >> Yeah, he's ready to fight that tennis game. >> Yeah, this is mixed master might. >> I don't know who it is. >> My friends, leg locks have changed the game. And this is the discussion about how is that reflected in Jiu-Jitsu? What has been the biggest change in the last 10 years? I'm going to say the popularization of leg locks. What would you say, Joey? >> Well, I suppose looking at it like a wide ranging view, there would be some of our listeners out there who have only come into Jiu-Jitsu since leg locks have been a thing. >> Yeah. >> Like come into it and like, oh, God and Ryan down to her death squad. >> Yeah. >> Like those guys. >> All you know is leg locks are just the thing. We should talk a little bit about the days preceding that when you know, that whole thing of like in Brazil, leg locks were like frowned upon. >> It's a bit dirty. >> Yeah, and what was the thing like if you did a leg lock at a competition, you'd often get booed by the crowd. >> Yeah. >> Like it was like it was a real dirty technique. >> Yeah, but I mean, we can dig into that. But that's like a little bit of like imperialism within Jiu-Jitsu because that's a very much a gracey thing. >> Yeah, they didn't, there was a little delivery thing they were using the leg locks. >> They were and also father who is like one of the four fathers of Jiu-Jitsu was teaching leg locks in the favela. >> Right. >> But the graces weren't doing that. >> The graces weren't up on that. >> Because maybe their rich clients did not want to have their feet ripped off. >> I understand. >> Oh. >> And it's what it is. >> Simplified for me, how have leg locks changed the way Jiu-Jitsu plays now? >> Well, I think originally there was a time when your Jiu-Jitsu game for G and no G could be similar. >> Yeah. >> I think that was true from you know, the 90s through to like even early 2000s to 2010. Look at a guy like Marcelo Garcia. He actually only trained no G, 20% of the time. He mainly trained G and he just adapted his G game to his no G game. And that was fine because there was a time when you could do that. Then there was a critical point where, and you know, the ADCC had always included leg locks and the highest percentage finish throughout was leg locks. And probably. >> Yeah, really. >> Yeah, it's amazing. It's a famous match where he's, I can't remember the guy who's fighting a huge fat unit. And he's trying to get his back. He's holding his hips. He's kicking his face. >> Not Rico or Dregas. Not that one that he was the U.S.C. >> He gets dumped. It's a really big fat unit. >> Okay. Rico's heavyweight. Not fat though. >> Yeah. >> He has the guys back and the guy backs Lams in. >> Oh yeah, it's Rico. >> And headbutts him. >> Yep. >> Oh, like, I think the slam technically might be legal or not, I'm not sure. >> It's a dirty move. >> But he had kind of headbutts him and the stuff's like, you fucking what? And then like, I've never seen myself do a leg lock in my life. He's like, back to, he does a sweep, comes up to pass and just throws on the outside of your hook and twists his leg off. It's mad. >> It's mad. >> It's so good. And you know, Dean Lista really is the most successful leg locker in ADCC history. >> Yeah. >> Just because he has the most finishes from heel hook. So that's not that long ago. That's in that 2000 to 2010 era. >> Yeah. >> But there was a time when the IBJJF banned reaping. Still do. Unless you're doing, you can, they've now changed the rules. >> You can reap in no ghee. >> In no ghee. Brown and black. But that's because there was a spate of injuries. >> Yeah. >> There's a bunch of people having knee surgeries as a result. >> Just from the action of reaping. Or was it the reaping and then associated like heel hook attack or something? >> It wasn't a heel hook attack. It was like saying people going for a straight foot lock and reaping or trying to sweep from that and people getting knee injuries. But funnily enough, I think it was not just the fact it was in the key, but people were just not familiar. They weren't turning or they weren't going with it and that was creating problems. So then it was like, oh, we're not allowed to do that. And then the development of the game wasn't so much there. It was there in MMA. Leglocks are available. Frank Shamrock, you know, back in the early days of pancreas. They were doing heel hooks. They were doing knee bars. >> Yeah. >> Submission wrestling types. It's all about twisting the ankles and the knees. >> Cat wrestling, cat wrestling. >> Yeah. Josh Barnett. >> Josh Barnett. >> Love to leglock, of course, and Brutal MMA fighter too. So here's the thing. >> So they're always around. It just wasn't a -- >> It didn't exist. >> It culturally wasn't as much for part in Jiu Jitsu. >> And it wasn't made popular. And I don't want to speak on who really owned this. But like Dean Lister, but then you also got to go to Eddie Cummings. Was really -- he was the -- oh, yeah. Eddie Cummings was the guy before Danahurt. Like, he trained under Danahurt. But really, the inside word is Danahurt showed some leglock stuff. But Eddie Cummings is the guy who really invented the leglock system. And had -- and ended up falling out with Danahurt and leaving. But the whole leglock system that Tonan and Gordon Ryan and even stuff that Craig does to this day is derivative of what Eddie Cummings was doing, you know. >> How about that? >> Ten years ago, whatever. >> Wow. >> And Eddie Cummings was -- he -- most of his fights were through -- was it Eddie Bravo's comps? Was that where -- >> EBI, but he also did -- >> Yeah, yeah. >> Polaris, okay. >> Any number of super fights. >> Not just competitive anymore, is he? >> You don't seem so much. >> Yeah. >> He's a -- I feel the eccentric guy. >> Yeah. >> And also a prickly guy. >> Right. >> So he has a tendency to not get on with people. He went across. He was a unity for a while. >> Yeah. >> I was teaching them all how to do leglocks. And then, you don't seem there so much. I'm not sure. Because I've never met Eddie. And I don't say anything bad about him. I admire his game. >> Yeah. >> Because I feel he's a true innovator. And a lot of stuff we see now, even like the stuff that Lock On Jiles has done. And I witnessed both him and Craig working together on their respective leglock games. You know, they had a look at what DDS was doing. And they said, "Well, you got guys who are wrestling and doing leglocks." And they're smashing people. >> Yeah. >> You got to take a page out of that book. >> DDS is the Danahar Death Squad, which is -- >> Obviously for the initiated -- >> Oh, yeah, they're no longer -- >> Yeah. >> How to funk the band formerly known as. But for the newer listeners, that was a -- They were probably like part of that explosion of no-gear Jitsu and any popular rungs, weren't they? >> Yeah. >> Which, you know, and if you listen to Danahar, which I think is a very worthwhile listen to him when he's on the Joe Rogan podcast. >> Yes. >> And he's, I'm sure, to Joe, thanks for tuning in today. >> Appreciate it. >> But he talks about how he was influenced to look deeper into leglocks by Dean Lister. >> Yes. >> Dean Lister, he said famously, "Why would you ignore 50% of the body?" >> Yes, exactly. >> And it's an amazing statement or question because it's like, "Well, yeah, it's -- "The way Jitsu played -- like the my style of Jitsu." >> Yes. >> And the way that it played out in that more old school sense was, you have to get past the guard. >> Yes. >> And then you control the upper body and then you attack the upper body. >> Upper body, yes. >> So it's an arm bar or it's a triangle or you're taking the back and choking, right? A collar choke, whatever. Whereas if you don't worry about all that and you just attack the legs, like you're already there, the legs are already there. It's an amazing shortcut. >> Indeed. >> And it changes how -- it changes the game because instead of needing to get to this upper body control dominant position, you're like, "Well, I'm just going to fall to guard and attack your leg." >> Yeah. >> Like, you know, and if you can do that more effectively and the other person doesn't have a defense for it, fuck me, you saved yourself a lot of energy. >> It's so efficient. >> The first thing I want to shout out is like Eddie Bravo, shout out 10th Planet System. Eddie Bravo was playing with a lot of interesting leg lock stuff from lockdown, you know, vaporizer, electric chair. >> Vaporizer. >> People -- best names for these techniques. >> The THC guard. No, it's one of those things that -- >> And they put me in a fucking electric chair the other day. >> I know. >> Fuck you, man. >> Dude, it's come back. >> Horrible position to be in. >> It cranks the ligaments. >> Yeah. >> Full respect to those savage, savage 10th Planet practitioners. Eddie was the one who really went, "Nah, I'm just doing no-gui." He was really the first guy. I mean, he did have a period where he would wear -- >> Separatists. >> He was a pioneering separatist. >> He kind of was, yeah. He had the geek pants, but he wore the rashi. >> Yeah. >> But he was the guy who was like, "Nah, my whole style is no-gui." >> Yeah. >> And I feel that if we look, even though I'm sure there's plenty of people throughout the history of Jiu-Jitsu who have taken more that path, he was the one who created a whole popular system around it. And there's now some incredible practitioners who are out of the 10th Planet system, undoubtedly, who just have wild, wild, no-gui games. But I feel where Dana Hersd, Deskbord, crew really rose to prominence. It was through EBI, Gary Tonin beat everyone. Lightweights. Well, it's a weight. I think he even won the heavyweight title at some point. point. Really? Yeah. Is before G Ryan stepped on the same thing? Then G Ryan was coming up on under the wings of Tom DeBlast and Gary. - Right. - And then he came through and he won it. The format actually suited them, and that's why Eddie leaned more towards combat. - I was always a fan of the straight footlock. - Yes. - I remember my first coach, Dan, that took me to Brown Belt. He liked them. He had some really good insights on the straight footlock. I remember at a time when straight footlock's like, "Oh, you just rap, and then you kind of do the double wrist lock, and then you just go for it." But you had some like little modifications that technicality you could say, which these days is like, that's all jiu-jitsu. Like you've got to know these tiny little details, right? - Yes. - But back then it was like, almost if someone got on an ankle lock, you just, I don't know, it's almost like you just tapped, 'cause you're like, "Oh, they've got me." Like, Jiu-Jitsu was seemed a bit more like that at Brown Belt. - You know? - Yeah. I remember going when I went to Brazil as a blue belt. It's a cool story if you want young whippies-nappers out there. I went to the Delahiva Academy. - Hey. - So I'm in Rio, and I've been training at Carlson Gracie, and I checked out Check-Mat, and then I'm like, "Oh wow, there's the Delahiva." And it's like, it's a gym, like a fitness gym. - Yeah. - And then they got like a little room to the side, and there's a sign out in the street, and it's like, "Delahiva." And you're like, "Oh wow, what do you know?" - Delahiva. Like, a lot of people don't even know that he was a guy. - Yes. - It's not just the, you know, - It's not an obscure name in the dark. - It's kind of Delahiva. - Yeah. - So I walked in there and saw the time table, and I was like, "Oh, class tonight." And I went back, and there is Delahiva. - And he said, "Welcome to Clayton." And how I, man, great, great to be here. Jump on the mats. And it was a small class. I think he had like two or three black belts, and then like a couple of blue belts, so it was pretty small. And then it was the first gym I went to where the air conditioning was pumping. It was so crispy, cool in there. - Oh, nice. - I was like, "Damn, this is blush, 'cause it's just fucking humid. - So humid in there. - The gym's a real sweaty, you know. - Yeah. - Anyway, I'm rolling with one of his black belts, an older guy, and you know, we're having a nice exchange, whatever, and the guy leaves his foot out there, on this straight footlock, and I fucking tap the dirt. - Oh. - And I'm like, "Fuck yeah, just come Delahiva's Academy. I'm a blue belt, I tap this black belt." - Taking names. - Things are looking up for Joey. And this fucking guy just brought hell down upon me. For the next five minutes, he just fucking bashed me. - Just severely. - Yeah, and he, - How dare you. - And when I got him with the footlock, he tapped, and then he said, "Oh, nice, we don't use this technique a lot here." And I was like, "Oh, whatever, oh, man." - And then he proceeded to communicate how he felt about it for the next five minutes. And, - Guy fucker, bashed me anyway. I stuck around there for a week or so and had some really great training with that gentleman. His name is Elvesio Penna, - Okay. - Who I once saw a meme of Elvesio. - Right. - And it was, - He's the older Super Jack guy. - Super Jack Gray here. - I know this guy. - He's in the adult division. - Yeah, he's a beanie. - And he, and we're in the change rooms after, and the other guy's like, "Hey, how'd you go?" Yeah, bye bye. And he's like, "Hey, you know Elvesio here is like, "Man, this guy still competes at the adult division." And I'm like, "Wait, man." He's like, "Oh, he was like, maybe in his 50s?" And he's like, "Yeah, I still compete at the adult division." I'm like, "Hey guys, that fuck him up." Like, "Yeah?" "I'm good." - And he's a beast. - Yeah, and I was like, "Holy shit." And then I saw, yeah, years ago this meme of him and it was like, 55 years old, still competes in adult division. #Haspect. - Yes. - And I was like, "That's the guy." - He was the guy. - But it just, you know, was just interesting. Like, culturally, I was like, "Yeah, footlocks are a thing." And for him, he's like, "No, we don't do that." - No. - And he saw that as a great disrespect. - Yeah. - You know, so I was like, "Ah, fascinating." - Interesting. So, the way I've had it explain to me, Osvaldo, father provided, I'm getting that right. I hope I'm getting that right. Apologies if I've gotten that wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm up on that. Osvaldo, father, he was teaching in the Favellas and he didn't have the rich clientele. And he was very pro footlock. Gracies were not. Gracies were more self-defense, you know, doing more combat stuff, but it wasn't about the leg locks. That wasn't the Gracies style. The Gracies style got popular and that's what we kind of came to know through UFC fame. But there were all these guys, super savage guys who did do footlocks and Compredo, who was a champion at one stage. He was absolute champion kind of before Hodge of Gracies time, but around a similar time, he won with a footlock, like a toehold, in the final, maybe of the absolute or the heavyweight final against a very famous guard player called Holletta. And Holletta had beaten Sal, Salo, Birriero. - Okay. - And Salo was like one of the toughest dudes. - He was one of the tough dudes of the late 90s, always 2000s. And people got booed and got upset. Compredo used to bleach his hair and then die at a color for Com. He's kind of famous for that. And so the foot's up in the air and he just grabs it and rips it. And the guy just taps. He doesn't even bother passing the guard and be like, "Oh, what, you can't do that?" But you could, a toeholds legit. And he was just like, "Yeah, look at me now, "well, I'm the champ." And that's real. And the interesting thing for me is the evolution of guards then leads to the evolution of other things. So if we look at the evolution of Dele Hiva and Dele Hiva is an extension of Dele Hiva is being balled. And that is a transition essentially. But that helps people get to the back. That is an outside leg position. A lot of the reaping, you know, whether it be 50, 50, or saddle, or 4/11, whatever you wanna call it, reaping the leg, controlling the leg is an inside leg position. - Right. - They are counters to each other. The outside leg position is accounted to the inside. - Ah, inside leg position is accounted to the outside leg. - Okay, so, simmer that back for me. So inside of the vision, like a 50/50? - Well, yes. - No, sorry, that's outside. - Saddle would be. - Saddle is inside. - Saddles inside. - You can have one in one out, depending on how you classify, right, to control the leg or the hip. The interesting thing is this, if you're doing no-gui and you've been trying to do like, it's hard to do barambolo's and no-gui. But if you turn to do a barambolo and you have stiff ankles, they can toehold your foot very easily. - Yeah. - If you go to put your Dele Hiva hook in very deep, you can get knee-bied real quick. - Yeah, right. - You know, if someone's very attacking on leg locks from the top, this starts to nullify this guard position. - Yes. - So this is just-- - 'Cause you're sticking your feet and your legs into these round-eas. - You're putting yourself into an entanglement. - Yeah. - Which is a problem. Also, back in the day, people used to pass on their knees. - Yes. - Low, tight, all of that. Then there was a point at which people started to stand more and move more in that way. Now, I'm not sure of the exact kind of archeology of, you know, at what point that changed. But when you stand and walk into someone's guard, if they can do leg locks, you're giving them your legs. - Yes. - Right? So then it's interesting that at a certain point, certain people started doing leg locks and started kicking everyone's ass. And one of the most famous cases, as I love to tell, is Locky getting bronze at the ADCC. And it was simply guard retention and heel hooks. And that's how he won against much bigger, technically, better opponents, 'cause they didn't understand the skill set and they got murked. - They fucking did. - You know? - Tell us that story for those who didn't watch that. Was that three years ago now? - Yeah, 2019. - Yeah. - So Locky and Giles, I feel like, okay, he gets, he gets his shine now, which I'm very happy about. But at the time, - He's been on the podcast too. If you haven't heard him speak, go back and check that episode. Is about 20 episodes to go. - Yeah. - It's a good one, it's episode 41. Essentially, I've known Locky since he was probably purple belt brown belt and just seen, he used to do beer and balls and stuff. I actually remember winning the brown belt absolute with beer and balls. And everyone was like, what's that movie keeps doing? Where he takes everyone's back? That's crazy. But he was always looking at the news stuff, always, always. And both he and Craig were looking at what was going on in America and how the guys at DDS were doing and how Eddie Cummings was doing. And they're like, man, these guys doing leg locks. These guys are doing wrestling and they're beating the Brazilians. It's crazy. So they started working on their own game. Craig had his game, Locky had his game. And Craig never really gave Locky credit for how much he helped him. But Craig got famous through beating the Andrew Lowe. He healed Hook, the Andrew Lowe, broke his leg, took his back and then choked him. - Ah, he literally tapped to the hill hook. - No. - And so that meant Lowe couldn't move. And so Craig knew that he couldn't move so he could take the back on that side. - Yep. - And take his back and then he knew the best way to get him his truck. - Ah, that was a huge fight. - It was a massive upset that made Craig. But then Craig did a kind of jumping slash flying triangle on Marilla Santana and finished that, which was also big. He also, I believe, I don't know if he choked or healed Hook, Chale Sondon in the absolute. (laughing) - But anyone could do that, so who cares? - No. - But from then on, you know, Uncle, Uncle Chale was always loving, loving Craig's nights. But that broke, that was a broke out moment, you know, and Lucky was coaching him at that time. And then both of them, in as plenty of Australian innovators who've pushed the ADCC path. But what I wanted to say is-- - Interesting to say, I've never seen a love Craig's shit, like I love his Instagram. I've never seen him mention Lucky. - I do not. I know you don't. Because like there's been like only very few times. And he said this kind of tongue in cheek, you know, he's a joking guy. He was on the Mattburn podcast. They said, "Oh, you know what, Craig, we don't really know you." You're like, you know, he's like, "Yeah, I'm the most famous guy I never won anything." And they're like, "Oh, who gave you a black belt?" He's like, "Oh, look on Charles, don't worry about him. He's a fake black belt." (laughing) - I was like, the disrespect. - Wow. - Like he's joking around. - It's a joke, but yeah, it's kind of-- - But he's like, "Yeah, yeah, whatever. That guy's nothing." - That's mean. - Yeah, I was like, "God, that's rough." But we can go there. - Is there, was there some kind of bad blood there? - No, not at all. - There's a difference. - Yeah, they're actually friends. I don't know how. Lock ones are nice guy, Craig's not, but they get on very well. You know, there's a huge respect there. - It fit like you and me. - Well, no, I feel like you're a brother, I put up with you, it's a blood thing. (laughing) What can I do? And plus, everybody mistakes me for you, man. So I was like, you know, if you weren't around, and people started calling me Joey, I'd get upset. - Joey, man, you're so fucking funny on the show, bro. I love you shit. Where's JT? Does he hear anyone? Who cares? - He still do, dude. - So at the ADCC, that whole probably 12 months, 18 months leading up, Lock On was just focused on leg locks, wrestling and guard retention. - Right. - That's all we did, like, in terms of what he wanted to work on. We could work on whatever we wanted. But I was in training every, - Yeah, yeah. - Every day. We did an ADCC class specifically to be prepared for that. - Yeah. - Because the ADCC is every two years. So like, with all the different things that had happened, he's like, this is what I'm gonna do. And we fully expected that Lock On was gonna dark horse the light weight category. - Yeah. - He had a breakout event at Connectic, which was like a Polaris type event, teams event, and BJJ fanatics had their own team. It was Lock On, Gordon, Nikki Rod, Edwin Najmi and Craig. - Yeah. Lock On on a team together? - Yeah, okay. - That's a crazy good team. Like no one's beaten that too. All the other teams were maybe fraction piece meal to that. Lock On went out and submitted a whole team by himself. - That's it. - Yeah, he submitted five guys, not all by heel hook, but one by arm bar, but the rest of them by heel hook. - Amazing. - Yeah, and some of them were big dudes. And I remember watching that going, God. And one of the guys he beat is a guy called Mancha Kerr, who is a great guy. He's a black belt, a great black belt by under Marcelo Garcia, left Marcelo, went to Unity, but had lost to Eddie Cummings, I believe he hadn't been tapped, he wouldn't tap to a leg lock. Lock On had changed. - True. - That don't work. - No, it's impossible. But Lock On had changed his style of leg lock, which is more of a bridge. It was less of a rotational talk. It was like, he locked the leg off and you bridge into the knee, which is savage. He did this to Mancha and he exploded his knee. - Oh wow. - Mancha didn't want to tap, and he was like, I'm doing it. And that was revenge, because Lock He had lost to Mancha at World Snow Game. - Oh wow. - Yeah. - Dude, I watched a Locky fight on YouTube against big high-sum reader. - Yeah, and it was in the, - Was it in the, - Both knees. - Yeah, and they did two rounds, where it's like a first round, Locky Hill hooks him. - Blow. - Second round. - He was out of the knee. - And high-sum reader, he's one of the most exciting, - So athletic. - Yeah, I was like, fuck, and how Locky's in for it here. - No, man, just nullified him. - Yeah, right. It's incredible to think that you get the leverage of two legs around one leg in this game over. And Locky is an absolute technician. His attention to details, incredible. So I saw what he did at that connected comp. And like, so Craig and I think maybe Gordon might have come out on a put Nicky you out, but like, Locky took out a whole team, okay, you can have a rest and put someone else in. So, you know, team BJJ Fanatics won, two or three members of the team didn't even compete. - Wow. - And I remember that going, - This is my kind of comp. - This is incredible. Yeah, Joey's on sale. Yeah, yeah, it does work. I'm happy to take a rest round, bro. You go. - Yeah. (laughing) - Bro, keep, do the leg lock. Locked it. - Locked it, JT, lock it up. My man. All right, I forgot again, let's go. - Actually, Locky does take a rest round because he's a sensible guy. But anyway, I was convinced going into ADCC that would happen. What actually happened is Lucas Leopardy, first round. Locky and JT is his Lucas Leopardy. Lucas Leopardy shuts Locky and JT down. You're not getting under me. You're not getting around me. New. - Absolutely new. - New videos, gonna try and do this. - Yeah. - Eventually passes Locky and JT and does a freaky backtake. Like, just a backtake. You're like, where did he pull that from? - Yeah. - And I, I don't think he finishes or maybe he does choke Locky and-- - From the back. - Locky is good. - Like, oh, our dreams are shattered. And we were gutted because we were so convinced Locky was gonna do big things. And Craig's doing well. Craig's beating a bunch of dudes. He's on to the finals. Just cut sick finishing everybody. Not necessarily leg locking, but getting their back choking. I'm doing a bunch. And it was a great, it was a great tournament. But I was there for the conversation. And this is where it's kind of cool to be there. Just very lucky. Moa Sim is out the back in the warm-up area. Simon Carson's there, Olivia Charles is there. - Oh, Sim, he runs ADCC. - He owns the ADCC. And he's the event organizer. And he's looking for names for the absolute. And they take four people from each category. And he just says like, on a whim, hey, Locky, you know, do you wanna do in the absolute? And Locky's like, oh, I don't know. And Mo says, hey man, if you do well, you get a free invitation back. I'll invite you. You won't have to qualify. Now, Locky went through a real fuck around to make that. He flew to Kazakhstan and then they withdrew the selection tickets for his weight category. - Oh, yeah. - They said, oh, it's a selection event. Psych, it's not. - He's already there. - Yeah, well, everyone was already fine. And he's like, Locky, you won that. And then I think he had to go to Singapore and win that to get his tickets. So there's a lot of time and money to qualify. So he says to Locky, bro, if you go in this and you do well, I'll give you a free invitation back. Locky was like, that's good enough for me. And I was like, yes, Locky, do it. It'll be like, connectic. You've got to smoke all these big falls. Yeah. And maybe he's like, Locky, it's absolutely. It's smashed. Even Simon Carson's like, dude, that's not a good idea. I wouldn't do that. And I was like, yes, do it. Do it. And Locky was like, yeah, I'm in. And it was just like a whim. He wasn't even like thinking about it. - Wow. - First round, he's fighting Kine, - Yes. - Who would won his division? - One heavyweight. - One heavyweight. - And smoked everyone. - Yeah. - And he was like, you can match up. Oh, God. It was just one of those things where you're like, your heart sinks a little bit. But in my head, I was like, I don't know. I was just hoping, you know, we're all the way there. And we're sitting around a bunch of atoll skies. And they're like, it's over, dude. It's kind of, dude. He's the greatest. It's over. Like, fuck you so cow suckers. Like just really polite, nice. They'd be nice to us all day. - Right. - Would you like a soda? Fuck you. - You're in a bed of neighborhoods. (laughing) - You into addibles? Dude. That was definitely lovely, guys. - Shut up to California, Lysus. We love you guys. - Yeah. No, I love our toss by the way. Shut out. - I'm fucking love California. - Good dudes. - All of them, like the Ritolo brothers, that was so lovely. - Yeah. - They're great guys. But me being the competitive person I am, they're like, no, dude, Ken and so over. And I was like, fuck you guys. Lucky Charles inside of Hoolhook from 50, 50 years. I was like, eh, flipping them off. Like most ungracious, bogan, savage, or showy. - You didn't know, JT gets kind of hyped, dude. - In certain situations. - I can only imagine that this was gonna be fun. - I was out of control. I was like, will Farrell in a bad movie just destroying the set? I thought he said, bad cop, bad cop. I saw where you had it. - And I just had to take it up a level. - Man, and very quickly inside of two minutes, kind of just leaves his leg out there. And Lucky's like, looking at him, kind of looking over at, like, at Gulf Arm. Like, eh, what do I do here? And Lucky just puts it on, bro. He spins and next thing, you know, tap, tap, tap, kind of stepping, whole stadium explodes. That is the upset of the tournament. If Lucky did nothing else, that would have made his name. - Yeah. - We're all just running through the stadium. (growling) Going crazy, we run down there. Lucky walked off like nothing. And I was like, is this a dream? - Yeah. - What just happened? And we were just like, we were, I think we were mellow after those fights. - He was so chill, he was just like, man, that was weird, hey. And we were like, what? You just beat the heavyweight world champion, bro. We were losing it. We were so jeered. On the other mat, Patrick Goldio is fighting another top, I toss guy. His name escapes me, it all comes to me in a second. And it's a war, 20 minute war, overtime, no points, take down war, and fights to death. Patrick Goldio wins at the death with a take down. Splits his head, exhausted. You guys probably had that experience where you've had a comp fight, you're lying on the ground, you've given it everything to me like, you're on in five minutes. - Yeah. - So just like, 10 minutes, Patrick, let's go. And like you just stand here, fresh as a daisy. And I was like, God, there could be a repeat here. I was like, well, it could have happened. We get kicked out, but we've got badgers. Not get out, you're not competing, fuck. - Oh, you're like down on the, like the comp. - Yeah, we're down on the floor, we're in the area. I mean, but he, everyone's there. All the famous guys are there, but Seth Daniels kicks us out 'cause he's a staunch mother, and I don't want to fight him. So we're back up in the stands, and now he's fighting Patrick Goldio. And it's actually his hardest fight. Like Patrick almost passes him. I've gone back and watched it a couple times. Like, Lucky almost gets his guard pass three times. - Wow. - And Patrick is a heavyweight world champion and a beast. And then same kind of spot gets to that backside, 50/50 from K-guard, and Patrick doesn't want to tap. So when Lucky rolls, Lucky said he's need pop, like four times. - Yeah, Patrick had that big, - He's like, ah, like big, yeah. - And he couldn't get up off the floor. - Iconic kind of like final moment, yeah. - Oh, it's brutal, and he can't stand up. Like he's knee is legitimately bad, and it's like two times, and so we run down again, but that sets up the match between him and Gordon Ryan. And, nah, yeah, my humming. No, he fights Gordon Ryan. I was there Joe. Joe's like, no bro, I've watched the point where we're going overtime, brother shit. I have to cut a whole computer out of it. Come on, this is meant to be the long after so much. Go there. You asked me to tell a story, I'm a tell story. Put your feet up, son, get the popcorn. This is my best you just destroyed. I'm bringing some assay, Jules, I say, tough, tough. But long story short, he is lucky versus Gordon. And everyone's like, oh, it ends here. It's going to be over. Gordon's beating everyone. You can't beat him. But at a critical point, and this is the cool thing, it was so exciting that everyone gathered around the mat, even Seth Daniels didn't even bother to kick anyone out. Like, Huyla Gracie is standing next to me like, oh, it's like, wow. Backyard fights, everybody's like, what's going to happen? And Tom DeBlast was very close to us. And Gordon's leaving his legs in there. And Tom DeBlast was like, what's he doing? He's playing with fire. This guy is on a leg lock tear. And what I wouldn't do. He's like, fuck my voice playing with fire. And Locky reaches for the heel. And just he kind of he slips. And then Gordon's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, pulls the legs out, gets low, gets tight, crushes, over unders, passes, stacks. And eventually gets Locky's back and chokes his face off. But it takes him nine minutes. Locky had a crease across his face like a bruise cut like this. Oh, well, Gordon choking his face off brutal. But that sets up the match between Gordon Ryan and Buchecha, which is infinitely boring and the classic, classic, giant David versus Goliath. Muhammad Ali, the biggest guy in the tournament, versus Lockon Jarls, who when he sits the butterfly guard is shorter than Muhammad's knees. It's ridiculous. Muhammad is a, is he a tall guy? Ah, six, four. He's fucking tall. He's 130 plus kilos at that point. Giant. Yeah. Like just mass. And yeah, lock, he just wanders in the locky's garden. And Locky's like, okay, I'm going to do this. And he's like, oh, no, I won't do that. Wanders back in again. Locky's like, I'm doing it this time, bro. And just goes. And within two minutes, he's here. He'll hook Muhammad Ali. Same 50, 50 inside here. Hook. Incredible. And it, the re, I mean, it is the story of the tournament because it brings you back to skill over size. This technique and this position can beat a much bigger opponent and disable them. Yeah. And even the guys he beat were like, dude, well done. Like incredible. It's, it's almost unbelievable. Even though Jiu Jitsu trades off this myth of like smaller guy, big, bigger guy, we know if big guy knows Jiu Jitsu, he's going to wreck you. Yeah. You know, it's only better if small guy knows a lot of Jiu Jitsu. Big guy doesn't. Yeah. But in this instance, big girl, big girl. Sorry, apologies. Yeah. Because obviously there's good examples of smaller women like Gabi Garcia losing to miss SoCal, mixed accent. Oh, Mackenzie. Mackenzie. Mackenzie. Went from Miss California to Miss Brazil real quick. But she's incredible. She's incredible at Jiu Jitsu and seeing her top Gabi was mind blowing. But yeah, that's right. Like it, yeah, if you're the smaller person and you're fighting someone bigger and they don't know Jiu Jitsu, yes, you have a great advantage for sure. But if they got some skills, then the mass is going to help them. And I feel like also the change in the way that Jiu Jitsu is delivered, Instagram, BJJ, fanatics, you can access this information, right? You can get Craig Jones's Leglock DVD. You can, you know, or like download online access. You can, you can consume all this information very easily. The ease of access to information is far greater in the modern Jiu Jitsu era. So I feel that's accelerated. This change in the game with Leglocks too. Yeah. I think just looking at the Leglock piece and this is really a comment for people who haven't been in the game for as long. There's probably at least not in my time, which is what's at 14 years. It's still so we've been in the game. Yes. There's never been anything as revolutionary in terms of changing the fundamentals of the game as this explosion of Leglocks. Yes. Because now what can happen is if you are not trained in them, and this is coming from them, not particularly trained in them. If you're not training them, you can go to a gym and a white belt who has been training in them, you know, in a disciplined way for six months, will catch you. Yes. You know, as a black belt, it's like holy shit. Like there's never been that level. There's never been such a technical development that's enabled someone with so much inexperience, beat someone so experienced. Yes. Right. And so it's revolutionized the game in that way so that you have to go and study that shit. Like if you want to be competitive and you want to be, you know, whatever, like you want to be, you want to understand the game and be able to be competitive at your level, you have to know it. Yeah. And the other thing I'd say on this is like so grappling industries as a competition series, it's not, you know, it's the kind of counterpoint to the IBGDF. They allow Leglocks. Like if you say, okay, I'm going to enter the advanced section of like Blue Belt and Up, you can do Hillhooks. And so people like mad. So grappling industries blew up. You know, David Egoozy, who's the kind of mastermind behind it. And Ben Hodgkinson, who's like president of the Australian arm of that, they are killing the IBGDF comps. That's why the IBGDF had to change their format to accommodate it. Yeah. Because they're losing market share. Yeah. Right. It's got so popular. Crumping industries do events all around the world. Yeah. They do events all over the world. Wow. You know, they're not sponsoring this, but man, shout out. They changed the game because they facilitated it. And now the IBGDF has had to change. Yeah. They're like dang. People want to play Leglocks. We better allow it. Yeah. That's why I brown and black. You can now do Hillhooks and you can reap and all of that. And that's a total game. That's a total 90, like 180 degree turn around on where it was 10 years ago. Yeah. And you can't train Nogee the same way that you used to. You can't just like, oh, I do G and I do my Nogee game the same. You can't. There's people who are just training G now and they're beasts. And you've got people who are like, no, I'm saying on this G tip. And it's kind of diverging in a lot of ways because you have to have different approaches. And it's cool in a lot of ways, but it also makes it harder because before you come to Jiu Jitsu and I learn in the G, I learn in the G, you know, it's cool. I don't have to be an Olympic rocket scientist of Jiu Jitsu to be able to compete at Blue Bell. Yeah. But this is, I guess the evolution of many things. And I think I've seen it, you know, in the 14 years we've been in the game. I feel this has had the biggest impact on changing the Jiu Jitsu landscape. Absolutely. Huge. Yeah. No doubt. Maybe in another episode, you could give us like, it would be cool for you to break down because you are the in-house Jiu Jitsu technician. Well, thank you for saying so. I'm the charismatic and funny guy Jiu Jitsu technician. I'll accept that. Fine. You could give us a breakdown on like technically what are we looking to do, like, where the common mistakes are for people like wandering into a no-gey match or a no-gey role versus a gay role? Yeah. And look, I'm not going to say, oh, you know, I'm so great at leg locks, but I do understand the differences because you fucking have an amazing grasp on this. I'm sure you're not where you would like to be. No, but I've been very fortunate because every time Craig would come back from DDS before he actually kind of migrated full-time and now has B-Team defected. Defected. Well, actually kind of hijacked. He's kind of like, hey, you guys sick of Gordon? Me too. Come with me. Come to the Promised Land. We'll go to Texas and we won't pay taxes and we'll have guns. Hooray. That does look pretty fun. Yeah, no, they have a good time. And yeah, you know, I'm sure it's a great training environment. But the thing is, which is very interesting to me, Craig would come back and say, no, we're not doing this anymore. That doesn't work. So hang on, how can you say that? And then he would just demonstrate. You just like, man, it doesn't work like this, it doesn't work like this. And then, you know, they test the theories out. Lock on would do something similar. He's like, yeah, man, that's not effective for this. This is effective for that. So in real time, people far smarter than me were solving those problems. So I really benefited from being like, okay, well, I guess I'll trust what you say, because you are leg locking everyone. I don't need to be as good as you to understand you know what is going on with this piece of knowledge. And look also, you know, shout out to my man, Jeremy Paul Skinner. He's a student of the leg lock game. He's here at Grappling Education. Yes, when we rolled out, he put me in a leg in town. I was like, I don't know, fuck an idea what's going on. He's a pretzel. And he kind of just looked at me and then he was like, well, he's a smart guy. You know, they've got a really good program out at Sydney West Marshall. That's as well. He's out there too. Azy. Yeah, he trains out there, shout out to Luke, who leg lock Luke, who runs that. He trains under Danahe as well. Look at him. Yeah. I can't even realize. He was just in Texas recently. I chatted to him about it. It's interesting because people are like, this is possibly a future of Jiu-Jitsu in terms of it being exciting, performance oriented. And the ADCC is now becoming more of a thing. It is now at its zenith. It's in Las Vegas. Fuck this next up. It's a full stage of higher, and I'm really hoping I can be there. Like I will be in Vegas when the tournament is on. As to whether or not I'll be in the venue. My goal is to be able to be in there, do some interviews, get it on the podcast, and talk to people who win, give you guys correspondence on how it went down, to actually give a bit of insight. That's the hope as to whether or not it happens, we'll see. - Just send an Instagram DM right now to Moa, saying we want JT in the house, in the arena, not repeating, but doing media shit at ADC. - I tried to apply for a media pass, you used to be able to, but flow grappling, I've got it locked down. They got exclusivity, fucking teag. - Hey guys, we're out here at the thing. Okay, so we're excited, let's get into it. - Lamos. (laughing) It's like, I challenge all the flow grappling to grappling matches. They can't grapple for shit. Even teag, it's like, I'll grapple you bro. You guys ain't shit. At least I could throw down, like, you guys got nothing in suckers. Once our podcast is bigger than your whole media organization, I'm coming for you. (laughing) - Bam, let's sign it off there. Guys, I don't mind a bit of flow grappling personally. I don't know if they just guys, no, no, no, don't get me on this. That's all other areas. - Yeah, tune in for next week to see JT Rhythm a New One. Hey guys, if you want help for your JTU training, we can help to make you as strong as mobile as possible. We have an amazing program, it's online. You can do a free trial of it. Try guys for seven days, and then if you want to kick on, follow it, get super strong in mobile. Go to bulletproofofbjj.com. Use the code BJJpodcast when you sign up and you'll get 20% off your subscription. You'll also get exclusive access to JT and I and we'll help you with the training. And we look forward to welcoming you guys into the community. Thank you, we'll see you next time. Thank you. (upbeat music)