#9 - The Magician on Ice - Transcending the Dream with Tessa Virtue

Welcome to leave your mark where I explore the influences that have shaped the lives of our incredible guests. These are the stories of lives we're talking about. Follow me on Twitter @BuildBySkod and Instagram @KingOPay. Or link up with me on my Facebook fan page @SkodGN. My goal is to create a community of people who take every opportunity to live high performing lives. Before I get started on today's podcast, I want to take a moment to connect you with my sponsor Re-ConitioningHQ.com. Re-Conitioning is a method and language of integrative practice and brings the worlds of therapy and conditioning together and helps them become more powerful and more practical. If you live in one or both of these worlds or you use the services of a therapist or conditioning coach, you know that sometimes they don't see eye to eye. They aren't on the same page. Re-Conitioning provides a time-tested process for aligning these two worlds and creating impactful solutions to performance problems. Follow them @Re-ConitioningHQ on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook or become a member of their Facebook group Re-ConitioningHQ Revolution and join the Re-Conitioning Revolution. Welcome everyone to Leave Your Mark, this is Scott Livingston and I've invited Tessa Virtue to leave your mark today because she is magic. She is a rare combination of creative and imaginative, soulful and artistic and devout intercomitment to performance. She, along with her partner Scott Moyer, have won all the races to win in eye-stancing. They are widely regarded as one of, if not the best dancers of all time and yet when you meet her, when you spend time with her daily, you feel the magic of her presence and honesty in her gaze. She and Scott have just come home from winning two gold medals at this year's Olympic Games and I am honored to have her with me here today. Welcome Tessa. Welcome intro. Thanks Scottie. It's so kind. Well, it's true. Trying to give you magical gazes now. Well, it's funny, you know, just doing this back-to-back with Scott first and then you second. And Scott is a guy who is very, well, you know, way better than anybody else, but he's a very emotional cat and a very energy-oriented cat. But he doesn't always stare you in the eyes when he's talking to you. Whereas you do. You have like a stare and you sort of look and you're like you sort of intentionally connect with people you're talking to. That's interesting. I think it's for sure when Scott's speaking about something that might be sensitive or really emotional. You're right sometimes he avoids eye contact. That's so interesting. I don't say it in a bad way. No, no, exactly. I think he's thinking and he's kind of often in space sometimes. So you, I know you love dancing and moving because I see it in your eyes as well. What are artists moves you most with their music? What do you get moved by the most? I think what's so neat about what we do on the ice is that we get to explore different artists, different types of music. That's always been a motivating factor for us. And each new season there's a clean slate. It's carte blanche and we get to start over and re-identify our style of movement and who we want to be and what we want to portray. So I'm hesitant to sort of pigeonhole myself into one category because I think what's been so liberating in the last little while has been exploring the different things. So something like Mulan Rouge. Well, I've always loved the soundtrack. I never imagined feeling the way I did last season performing to that, you know, those pieces and truly feeling this. Unshakable connection to each and every note of it. I mean, we just resonated with us on such a deep level. So, and now what we're doing in the shows, I mean, it's kind of whatever I'm doing in the moment is what I love the most. That's awesome. I'm going to come back to a little bit of your creativity. But have you always been like that since a little girl, like were you create a little cat who used to dance around all time or did that come out in you later? And you're like, I think so. I mean, I'm certainly. I'm always moving. I'm always dancing. I think it was always important to me to express myself physically. And dance was the first thing I gravitated towards. It was my first love and passion. And it started at more in ballet, so very regimented and specific movement. And then once I explored more modern and contemporary dance. That struck a chord as well, simply due to the freedom. It's interesting listening to you talk about what it was like for you as a kid because I'm a dad of a little nine year old girl. And I watch her dancing and running around and stuff. How was your creative cat supported by your family when you were a kid? Was it was there somebody or something that allowed you to be to to find that in yourself and not tap it squashed? In some way she would form such a good question. I mean, I used to imitate everyone. And I used to imitate my great one teacher and I had all of her mannerisms down to a tee. And I would, I idolized my gymnastics coach, Bill D. And I wore the same tracksuit. I would put my scrumptium and ponytail at the same height. I carried the exact same mug she did to the same gum. I mean, I was a little obsessed and I would do that with my ballet teacher. And so I just was always observing people and maybe that's part of being the youngest kid of four. I was watching. And so I had a very vivid imagination and could entertain myself. And I was always kind of teaching others in my imaginary classroom or whatever. But I did grow up with a very strong mom and grandmother and sister. I was surrounded by very strong females, strong independent fierce women who instilled in me this idea that really I was limitless. So I grew up thinking that whatever I wanted to do I could do it. That's emotional. It sounds a little arrogant, but it's this burning fire, almost visceral feeling that, you know, whatever I sent my mind to I could do because I know that I would be willing to work hard enough. Not that I feel entitled to anything. It's just I know that I would put in the effort. And it took me a long time to realize that not everyone has that. And they're growing up and I'm so grateful. And I think that's such a testament to my mom, especially. What do you, what do you look at it when you maybe for the listeners? What, what does your mom do that we, if you, when you become a mom one day, are you going to sort of describe to you? Think that was really empowering for you? She was keen to expose the kids to many different activities in sports. But what I admire most is, I mean, as soon as I launched on skating, it was my thing. And when I came home at the end of the day after practice, we sat around the dinner table. We didn't talk about skating. I was a focus because I was a student and I was a daughter and I was a sibling and I was so much more than just a skater and, and that kind of carried through my whole career. It was always my thing and my internal drive had to be the main motivating factor really. It was this idea that she instilled in me to trust my own instincts. And yes, she was my mother, but she had to equip me with the right tools to make decisions. And sure, she had to watch me falter many, many times, which must be tough, as a parent, I can only imagine. But it gave me the confidence to really trust myself and know who I was and know kind of what I stood for. Do you remember any significant and early learning experiences that you look back on that were kind of mistests for you or things that you kind of look back and go, wow, that was a life changing moment for me. Going to the National Ballet when I was nine, so Gretchen's age. It's a one month summer school program and for the first two weeks, you can have no contact with your family, no letters, no phone calls, nothing. And as a nine year old, that's quite stressful, but they're also teaching you things you're just expected to learn how to sew the ribbons on your point shoes and budget your little weekly allowance for your treats at the corner store and, you know, manage the stressors that come with having to perform. And having to perform on demand and any are under intense scrutiny and pressure. Because you know you're being scattered and they're analyzing everything from your conditioning class to your play to your turn in. I was kind of the perfect candidate for the National Ballet because I was such a, I am such a pleaser and I wanted all the instructors to like me and I just went above and beyond to make sure I was doing my job. And I was incredibly intense for a nine year old. And you know, I would lose sleep if I messed up a combination. I was just in it, but you know, it was also the hardest month of my life. I think I, I mean, I grew up a lot in that month, but it was, you know, an early test to my willpower. I guess in my discipline and sense of structure. The reason you chose skating over dance. I knew that if I skated, first of all, I had the chance to compete. And I'm such a competitive person and I think I would have really messed that in ballet, although it is obviously competitive world. I wanted to be able to measure myself against others on a scale. I wanted to know that I could maybe be the best in Ontario. the best in Canada. And if I skated, I could do ballet on the side and it would help my skating. But if I did ballet, I couldn't skate. So I sort of thought that I was having the best of both worlds. And truly, I mean, I had already committed to skating with Scott and that was already a priority for me. I knew that I enjoyed that partnership and wanted to see what we could do. So what is the value and competition for you in comparison to performance? You know, it's something that I'm trying to sort of now. I'm trying to reconcile in my head what that means to me because now we're taking on this new role of performers currently in stars and ice, but then we'll do that kind of all over the world. And and I love entertaining. I love making people feel part of our skate. And you know, we talk within a competition, but it's maybe even more important in a show setting. But if I'm really honest, I do miss that competitive spirit. And I think part of that is, I mean, you lived our whole the last two years with us. I think investing everything into one goal, one moment. However, fleeting it may be and committing every five of your being to that purpose is so powerful. And I may not have that again with anything I take on with to that same extent. Because how could you on the on the world's biggest stage and that Olympics said in. And that's okay. I think while I might miss that, I also have to embrace that yes, I get to take the ice tonight at the Bell Center without that pressure, looming. And with this sense of freedom and you know, it becomes much more about the performance side than the technical side. So, you know, I waffle back and forth and that's something that I'm working through right now. What's energy in for you and performance and what's energy for you? Energy in is working off of Scott. And I think every night in the tunnel before we take the ice, I just think I'm so grateful that I have a partner. And someone likes got to share this with because we could feed off of each other. And when what sometimes can get with notness when you're doing the same thing all the time, it keeps it fresh and we can communicate and we can, you know, tell a story together. That's really special for me. Sometimes I think the expectations outside of everything can get draining as an introvert. Sometimes it's a little hard to feel you're getting so much of yourself. And we want to because we want it to be an experience for everyone else, but what I'm learning, I'm not so good at is finding time for myself. So you're an introvert by nature? Yeah. That's funny. That's interesting because you don't come across as one, but I can see how you would be for sure. I think just learning how to recharge. I'm not invigorated by crotch. Are you an introvert? I'm an introvert. I think yeah, I find I enjoy being with other people and stuff, but I in order to sort of recharge my batteries and eat my own time, which I'm not like you necessarily as good at as I should be or recognizing my opportunities to do. So I guess, yes, I'm filling, filling those opportunities with work or the thing I should do. I think we're both good at filling our time that way. I know I can just run myself into the ground and bam, I'll hit a wall and then I'll just do it again. I'm an introvert. So I'm taking a moment to do that. I'm going to read you with something. I discovered a book a number of years ago called The Day You Were Born and it's basically combines astrology with numerology. And the reason resonated with me was I actually found my purpose in the book and there was, I won't tell you the long story about how it all linked, but it was quite powerful. So I read this to each person that I from their purpose from the book. So using your birthday, you're a tourist eight. So your purpose is to risk yourself, to learn your truth and keep your goals and your moral boundaries from becoming too rigid. And the little statement that goes with it says, good ideas and innovations must be driven into existence by courageous patients. Oh wow. How does that resonate with you? Oh, that's extremely powerful, isn't it? It's funny that the emphasis on the moral code and maintaining that kind of authenticity and pushing the limits, risking, whether that's striving for success or what have you, but I think maintaining your integrity is so important. And for me, that was always having a mission statement and makes decisions easy when you can come back to something like that and whether that's in my personal life or business relationship with Scott or even social media or what kind of message am I trying to send and does this ring true with what I stand for and what I believe in and just say. But it's also I think it's having that, but in you not allowing it to be so rigid that it constricts you. Yeah. And maybe that's the balance with Scott, right? Because I imagine his is a little different. Well, I read his, I didn't actually, I was going to read him, you're viewers, but I didn't have to do it, but I'll read you his and you can see what how it resonates with you. This is Scott's to use your acute sensitivity, feelings of difference and fears of abandonment to gain insight into yourself, become creative and bond with others. Pretty neat. Yeah, it's great. Well, we did with J.F. Menard, our mental prep coach, you know, well, and Chris Rodd's still skilful physiologist. We did this brainstorming meeting with Marie Frontsen, Patrice, our coaches, and all of a satiron, the table, and we did one of those personality tests and you identify whether you, you know, act from your head, your heart or your gut and Scott's such a feeler. You know, I think sometimes he he wants to be so technical and but really when it comes to that, he's such a feeler. Everything just comes from his heart and I'm such a head person like I really kind of overfing over-analysed him, you know, but just as you lay out those two. It is the end of your act. It's kind of a neat balance, isn't it? And so he can keep me from my rigidity and maybe I can help him hone in on that sensitivity. That's awesome. When you guys went away from home pretty early in your life, what was constructive and powerful in that and what was difficult in that for you? Knowing that we were putting ourselves in a position to compete with the other novice teams at that time and we knew that they were skating three hours a day and we just couldn't do that when my parents were driving us back and forth between London and Waterloo and oh geez, all those four years. I'm learning to put them. But that must have been, you know, look back and it's crazy to think at 13 and 15 that we did that but it must have been a turning point because we really took things into our own hands. I mean, there was no stopping us from moving to Waterloo and, you know, whatever sacrifices that meant, you know, missing parties or semi-formals or sleepovers or whatever. I mean, we were committed to doing that because we were striving for something more and we obviously latched on to that. I mean, we had a common goal and I think what was powerful was taking that on together despite, you know, being away from our families and friends and that that was certainly hard. But perhaps it made us appreciate that partnership and and support one another in a new way. It was funny talking to Scott. I'm wondering how it worked for you. He said after the 2014 Olympics when you guys pseudo-retired, when you retired, and then came back, that he kind of called it, went off the rails and lived his 18-year-old life a little bit, almost because of not having done that. Do you, what was your reflection on that period of time for yourself? Was it a good time or was it a difficult time for you or? It's, that's neat to hear him reflect like that. I think it's incredibly self-aware. I've, the one thing that I really felt I missed out on was a university experience because I watched all three of my siblings move away from home, live in residence and really dive into that university culture. And education was always very important to my family and while I kept up my studies, it was never really an experience. I would show up to class and head back home pretty much. And after 2014, I went and did some classes. I did a full semester actually at Western in London. And I think I have romanticized the idea of being at big school and, you know, the big auditoriums with that inspiring professor. And while I loved my time on campus, I realized I just had kind of missed that window of being 17 and doing that. And I had just come off in Olympics and I was going to school in my hometown, which was a little different. And people were reluctant to actually talk to me. So I wasn't that I was expecting. But I think, you know, while Scott maybe lived out that 18-year-old kind of partying self, I was trying to find that 18 year old like goes off to university and meets new friends and challenges for self academically. Like that was kind of what I was going for. And it was not what I was expecting. But it also was a really neat opportunity and any time to figure out, okay, like let's just say yes to everything and whether that's TV related media going to the bar on a Friday night, you know, like things that we couldn't do, any charity thing. I mean, it was just refreshing to kind of step it with it and 17 years of that regimented schedule. So it was nice to step out of that. But then you kind of had to figure out who you are outside of the skating setting. Does losing the, I've always seen this in many of the athletes I've worked with, especially prevalent when I was looking at guys in the national ocular because there is a regiment to what you do. Did you find it more difficult when you left it to sort of find your day to understand your day? Yeah. And you always look forward to that, right? You just sometimes you wish the time away because you just want to be done competing with you know, I don't want to schedule and I want to sleep in. I want to be able to, you know, do whatever I want in the afternoon and not have that regimented structure, but I mean, it didn't take long before I really missed that. And even still it's hard to find that touring or when we're on road because everything shifts to later in the day. But I know now that that kind of recipe is important to success. And so whatever it is I'm pursuing, I'll have to implement that kind of routine in some way, maybe not quite to the extreme that we were in. How much is structure is I often talk with people about the concept of structure and flow. They're kind of symbiotic relationship. You need a certain amount of structure to create flow in your life and vice versa. Can't be too rigid, but where did, where do those two animals fit in your life? Are you more of a structure bug who needs that in order to flow or you more somebody need to flow harder to sort of be grounded? The former for sure. I think having that implemented and we worked a lot with our beach to Ten-Team on energy management. So if you have 50 cubes of energy to get to your week, how are you managing that and how are you distributing that? So working within that, sometimes you have some weeks you have more to give to some certain setting. Maybe that's on the ice or in the gym or to recovery, but ultimately you only have 50. So you do have to manage that. So I think within that kind of, okay, this is our schedule, this is what we're aiming for this week. And then you have to be okay with the moving parts and taking your body's temperature to understand what you need in a precise moment. What have been your biggest learning chunks in the last eight years? If you went back and stood in front of a test of virtue of 2010, what would you say to her? What would you, if you could light bolt her forward and teach her the things you learned? I would have said, find Jamie and Scotty living a sack and listen to everything they say. And you know, actually Jamie and I were connected back then and we look back and I just, I wish that I was able to tap into that resource, but I also understand that at 20 given our training circumstances I wasn't in that place. I think creating a team is obviously important and surrounding yourself with the right people. But maybe asking questions like just simple wise, why is it that I was feeling pain after two surgeries and considering a third, but why did that pain keep coming back? And what could I do mechanically or movement was to change that or combat that? Why is it that I'm not connecting with this one piece of music and then maybe finding my voice? Just trusting that I'm trusting myself enough to use my voice and to take a little bit more control in our career and the first meeting we had with you. I remember you said, you know, you have to steer this ship and you really encouraged us to sit at that boardroom with our whole team and manage our career. And you know, we talked a lot about having accountability and taking responsibility early on. I think we did as much as we could then. Nothing to the extent of what we did in the last two years. And that's because we had competent people around us who trusted their abilities enough to sort of let us guide things. And that's incredibly… Empowering. Yeah, so empowering. Tell me about you. It's kind of selfish, but because I'm married to her about your relationship with Jamie. What did you find have real value in working with her? She has such a holistic way of looking at things and it's so all encompassing. So, you know, I would find myself just coming to her and telling her everything about, you know, my nutrition to how I felt on the ice, to what I felt like in my costume, to everything. And she just had this way of filtering the information and creating this plan that was comforting because I felt like, okay, she really listened and she knows all the facets of my training that I want to improve. And here she is creating this platform and outline for me to make improvements in a certain way. She just has vision unlike anyone I've ever met in how to lay that out and really take stock of what the priority is in that moment. But where we're heading, you know, she's brilliant, totally brilliant. I don't need to tell you that. I'm married. Yes. That's awesome. When you look back at the pain that you were in now, how did that weigh on you? It's funny. So we recently sat down with Steve Melton because we're updating our book and we're adding a few chapters and we had to go back and talk about something. So you guys are reading a book? Yeah. And so we, and this isn't a plug. That wasn't a plug for the plug. Yeah. But in talking to Steve, we sat down for about eight hours and chatting. Luckily Scott was there because, you know, he remembers things so clearly that I've obviously blocked out. But I realized just how powerful your mind can be because you forget what those dark times were like and talking to him forced me to go back into that place. And it's not easy. It's so unsettling. I guess it makes me realize what progress I've made, but it's hard to go back and think about that and talk about it, especially as it relates to a partnership I felt. Like, Chris got, was healthy that whole time and looking back on certain programs and seasons of ours. And, you know, I think we had potential, but we just were never able to really see it through training wise to the level that we probably deserved. And that's on me. So that's not easy to face. And I wish that things, you know, could have been different, but at the same time, maybe we wouldn't have ended up with the experience in penchanting without those obstacles because, you know, the flips I had to reframe it. Sometimes I would take the ice and think, you know, our competitors are amazing. I have such admiration for them, but they've not been through. I guarantee you, they've not been through the hardships that we've been through. They've had their own difficulties, but geez, like, you know, it was kind of nice to feel, okay, we have such strength in knowing that we overcame so much together. I was going to ask you what the counterbalance proposition of that is. Like, you obviously take something away from it and learn about yourself. Like, you, I guess you've learned that you can take pretty much anything and still figure out a way to be successful. Right. And going back to the brilliance that is Jamie Livingston and you're like, this I mean, there's no eco, right? So going to Jamie and saying, I need to make adjustments here. And this is what I think and she was always so open and so collaborative and just feeling like, okay, I could be honest about that. And it wasn't, didn't make me less of an athlete for not just sucking it up. And for so much of my career just that, okay, I just need to, to forge ahead and stay quiet and not bother anyone about my pain, but just being able to kind of vocalize it almost. It gave less power to the injury if I could just show up and say, Scott, you know what my likes for today. And then move on. You just realize there's always a way to adapt. Being a self-professed, a professed of people, please, you're, imagine that is the difficulty of these things when you are in pain, not necessarily admitting it or trying to diminish it in some sense for everybody else. Definitely. You know, athletes, that's our plate. We just were taught to battle through no matter what. And I mean, it sounds like I don't mean to sound like I'm the bravest person ever or that I, you know, that I've dealt with all this pain in a smart way, but it just, I think that was an inherent way of trying to protect those around me. No, but they think it's an important, one of the value proposition of listening to you talk about that is that when somebody is listening, you can be going through some very dark things or difficult things, but there's always this call of the silver lining or the value of that and how it strengthens you. I look, I'm curious actually, how do you see success and failure and how do you define those things for yourself? Well, we saw often we practice failure in order to achieve success. So it's hard to even see them as failures. you know, like following in a program, well, we practice that and practice refocusing, getting back in character and and carrying on and it's not uncommon for us to have had a rough competition right before we have maybe our best skates at the next event and there's, you know, there's a tie in there. So I think just understanding that like success is really based on a big mountain of failures, right? And that's what kind of gets you there. So I don't even know if the word failure is. It's cool to hear you struggling with that word because for me, I don't like failure as a word because I think what for me to note true failure in my viewpoint is where you don't learn from something. You know, you fail and you give up and you walk away. That's true failure. But to me, falling, not having success in something, etc. where you learn about what it is that I call that opportunity. It's an opportunity to regroup, to re-pattern to change, right? And I think the word failure is a bad, it's a bad term, you know, has, for me, a negative connotation, I don't like using it that much. But with your athletes, do you have to help them reframe that or do you see that change? Yeah, I think you always have to use languages, a really powerful thing. And people sometimes don't give it the credence it should in the sense that your words make a difference. I think that's been the power of my coaching is that I spend more time teaching and trying to get people understand what it means to do or whatever. And everybody has a different check on how they do stuff. But that's my approach anyway. But I think that's what you work with our wants to know the why. I don't think anyone you're dealing with wants to walk in blindly and just be told what to do and when it's kind of understanding the intention behind it all, which is way more interesting. It's funny though too. I always have this conversation with people, they'll say to me, I was, "God, I wish you met you 10 years ago and I'll always see you. Probably wouldn't have listened to me 10 years ago." And there's always this kind of readiness thing. And do you do you ascribe to that? Not from my perspective, but do you feel that there are points when you look back in your life where you almost through the experiences became ready to embrace something and you wouldn't have been ready to do that before? Definitely. Absolutely. And I think part of that's just growing up and part of that's understanding your place in the world and what it is you're striving for exactly. But yeah, I think and that's easy with hindsight to look back on something like that. You know, there's so much of our career. If I'm really looking back and being honest, I wish that I could change your fix. And of course everyone's so quick to say, "Oh, but we all were said and it worked out." And yes, it did. That's not for anyone else to say or judge. What makes you smile when you look back in the last couple of years of your life? Oh my goodness. Lots of things probably, but so much. But I think, you know, especially as an athlete, so athlete, Tessa, and athletes got like there is truly no better feeling in the whole world than stepping onto the ice knowing that you've done everything. And most of the time you think, "Oh, I could have done more because you always think that as you know, you think that there's more in the tank." But really, when we got on the plane to Korea, we were both just buzzing. And I remember looking through my piles of notebooks that I'd written over the two years and it took all of them with me. And it was right there in front of me, tangible evidence of all the work we had put in, all the mental prep sessions and notes and my training programs and everything we'd done in the ice and just thinking, "Wow, we're healthy. We're ready. We have an incredible team supporting us. I've never, ever in our career, haven't we felt that prepared?" Which added new pressure and a different pressure because, "Tee, if we still messed up, we know. Excuse it all." But it's sport and I guess that's the beauty of it. I don't think anything in life ever come. I don't think you ever do anything that's really truly in value unless you feel something, right? You know, you're rarely going to go, "Hey, it's another day at walk in the park. If you're doing that, you're not really pushing the end loop, right?" But it's that, like you said, that sense of confidence in the moment that you're going to be able to express it. And even if it doesn't work out, you know, you did it all. Right. Yeah. Well, when you talk about, so maybe it would have been considered a failure from the outside if we hadn't won in Pyeongchang. But really, no matter what the last two years, coming back and learning what we did, there's no way you could ever consider that a failure. I mean, it would have been a success story, other way, which is actually very cool. What was the feeling that went through your body when you looked up at the score and you guys won the gold? Because Scott jumped out in the air and he got in your very reserved and your suggestion, like it was funny to watch. It's funny because my family says that I was actually much more animated than I usually am. So it was just pure elation. Like just, you know, that's exactly what we expected to happen. And it's what we trained for. We were ready for that. But at the same time, there was a bit of disbelief. You know, just really did it. We did it. And it was just a surge of adrenaline and happiness in New Forja. Like it's just, it's hard to put into words. But I'm learning we're better at identifying one another's success because I can look at Scott and I'm so proud of him and so proud of what he's accomplished. And who he has as an athlete and a person. It's hard for me to look at my career in the same way with any kind of perspective. But I'm more able to see that in him and I'm probably happier for his success. And I bet he feels the same, you know, with me. So it's kind of it's special that we can see it that way. And you guys are perfect partners that way. You both said the same thing, which is kind of cool. In terms of your ability to see what the other person needs or is dealing with in yourself and so sensitive. As you look forward now, how are you going to, how are you transcending this experience? Having achieved what you wanted to achieve. Where does it go now for you? Well, there's this idea that the recipe for success is there and it's, I mean, it's no secret. It's just a lot of work and but creating the right team around you. I think there's what's really neat and a confidence bill. There is knowing that, okay, so whatever next goal I have or whatever next project I pour my self into, I sort of have a formula with which to approach it. But also it's our duty to mentor others. And at this point, up to three Olympic cycles and almost 21 years of skating together, I think that experience deserves to be shared. And it's one thing that skating while it isn't done because things are so secretive and it's so hyper competitive and I think if we can sort of break down some of those barriers and just make it this open learning experience, whoever we can help and whoever is in that place where they want to reach out and get some insight, not that we know it all, but we're happy to kind of at least let people learn from our mistakes or our success. Your wisehold owls. Yeah, exactly. We'll see we're just all. Who have you looked up to in the skating world that has done that for you in a sense that shared or has that been a rarity in some sense? Well, it is a rarity, but that's exactly why we allatched on to our front and the race because as soon as we came onto the scene, sort of nipping up their heels, they were quick to mentor us and to teach us what it meant to be professional and present and whether that was on the touring circuit or in a competition and to the most selfless people I've ever met and the way they coach for such openness and love and genuine care is extremely special. So if we can be that for another team or another skater, I think that's a really nice way to pay it forward. How are you going to take care of your health and well-being now as you sort of have to do it? Like you said something to me at the dinner at the end about the concept of everything, everybody moving every rock for you and now kind of it's probably not there. How are you self-carrying now or self-changing the way you approach your life from that perspective? I've now reached out to the people that were helpful and integral into our process, leading into the games and then reaching out to those people and making them part of my team personally now. So whether that's my natural path or my trainer or whatever, I think it's important to still maintain a sense of that structure. And those people also know me so well and they knew me in the dark moments in the last couple of years and they know what it took to get to Korea and it's important, I think, to maintain that connection, especially moving forward when it seems like you never want to set peace of us in a different way. And they don't mean that a negative way necessarily. It's just it's foreign territory where you used to being in this little bubble. That has changed for you guys. Yeah. Yeah. More people wanting your time. So I think even and I have to learn and figure out what this is, but JD Miller was saying to me last night, even just 15 minutes a day, you know, doing something for you and something that can help me feel centered and grounded. So then I am ready to give myself to other people because you know, we received so much support that it is done to give back. And I want to do that, but I want to do that from a place of feeling whole and you know, into it with who I am. Do you feel that using your body in essence to express yourself is always going to be something that's a part of your life or do you see it maybe going in a different direction? I think for the next short while it will absolutely. But then I'll be ready to challenge myself in other ways and you know whether that's in school or in business or you know then I'll have to find different physical goals of course, but no, I think I'll be ready for something new. If you met Tessa Virtue of 16 years old, what would you say to her? I would say that you know she's enough just how she is and I wish that most young girls could feel that. There's so much pressure to reach this ideal one singular standard of you know whether that's beauty or accomplishment or what have you. And I just think it's actually our quirks and our the things that make us unique that are the most endearing and the best qualities. So sometimes at 16 it's hard to know that and I think you know just every young girl or guys just know that whoever they are, however they are, is perfect just to be here. Yeah it's totally cool. Last question you you will perish from this Earth one day, a long time from now when you're hosting a daughtering around when you're 90. Like my mom who's 88 now. But what what would you like people to say about Tessa? I appreciate it please. I would most like people to say that I made other people feel special or that I cared what other people and that I approached things just authenticity. That's cool. What's your answer to that? I like to put that. That I was this bald crazy thing. I hope that people look back on me and see me as somebody who inspired them to live a powerful life and to that I made people think about what they were doing and challenged them. I told didn't tell you the full story of why I read you the thing but I was coming off of a second divorce in my life and I found this book and I had always had this saying some men see things as they are and say why I dream things that never were and say why not. Taped my desktop computer back in the day when I had a desktop and this one day I was going through the library or the bookstore and I found this book the day you were born that combined astrology with numerology and so I flipped to the page on Sagittarius 3 and I started reading the thing and so it said what my purpose was and it was essentially to inspire people to look within themselves to create change, to drive people to think about things from a convention perspective and everything. I don't have all the words of exactly what it was. But the first line like I told you what your tagline was was some men see things as they are and say no way. Exactly. So I had this moment of being a free thing. Oh my God. So I bought the book and now that's why it's become kind of my thing to do because I want to see how much it resides for different people and the interesting thing in the book I'll show it to you afterwards but it's it also talks about whether your spirit takes control or your ego takes control who you will be is sort of manifested differently in some sense and so I think we are all in a journey to recognize where our ego drives who we are and where our spirit drives who we are sort of owning that and I think that's the process we all go through so for me it's you know it's learning about myself and helping other people learn about themselves and I enjoy that I enjoy deep conversation and I enjoy connecting with people so that's what I hope I do. Well that's just what you are doing already with your writing and teaching and this has been so long. I hope it was energy energy and for you. Yes, absolutely. Thank you very much, Madame. Thank you, Scott. Thanks for joining us today on Leave Your Mark. I hope we've left a mark on you today and we wish only that you pay it forward by sharing this story. Taking the time to read and comment on this podcast. Please follow us at Twitter, at Bill by Scott and Instagram at QOK and become a member of this community at Scott, June, Easton, on Facebook. Have a great day. Music by Cedric DeSaint-Royne.