Speaker 1Hello and welcome to another edition of the Album Years podcast with myself Stephen Wilson and my co-host Mr Timothy Bowness. Hello. This episode is dedicated to the year of 1989. Now we thought after having done 1979 in the last episode, which was such a mammoth episode that we had to split it into two, we thought we'd tackle the end of another decade. So we're going 10 years into the future to talk about 1989 today. But before we do, just a bit of any other business. Now apparently Tim, although we've had a pretty good response to this podcast so far, I think we can safely say it's been pretty well received generally, right? Yeah. Tim, you tell me about a couple of complaints. So what are these complaints? We've had a couple of complaints saying
Speaker 2basically we've been making schoolboy errors. And actually in both cases, we weren't.
Speaker 1We do make schoolboy errors, don't we? We're very honest about our schoolboy errors, you know.
Speaker 2Well, in fact, there is a big schoolboy error you made, which I've never ever brought up because I just felt, I just didn't want to destroy you.
Speaker 1Oh dear. What was that?
Speaker 2Well, you know, Frank Zappa, the album we did.
Speaker 1Lumpy Gravy, yes.
Speaker 2Yeah. The thing is that, that version of the album that we were analysing was mostly recorded and released in 1968, not 1967. The original 1967 version was the band version, you know, the surf group version of the melodies. And that was released as a kind of test pressing and then withdrawn. Then Zappa added the orchestras, added the voices under the piano.
Speaker 1Well, I have both versions in my defence. So the version that you're talking about, the August 67 version, that's the version I have called the primordial version. That is the one. I've got that as well. Yeah. Ah, okay. All right. Well, that is a terrible, terrible, terrible schoolboy error. And I do apologise profusely for that. But let's hear what these two particular points are.
Speaker 2Well, listen, I mean, obviously, as you have apologised, I'm going to apologise too. I did actually say benefits. You were entirely right. That was embarrassing. It was terribly embarrassing. And I think I was just kind of plunged back into the 1980s and what it was like living on benefits.
Speaker 1I mean, to be honest, at that point, the moment you said benefits, I just thought the whole thing. Well, I think. Which is just cancel. Just cancel the whole podcast because that shame, we couldn't possibly carry that shame through the rest of the series, could we?
Speaker 2It's true. I brought shame upon myself and my family.
Speaker 1But you did apologise for it. And so I'm going to do the same now with my terrible, terrible error about Lumpy Gravy. But let's hear what these two errors that aren't really errors are that we've been accused of.
Speaker 2Well, one person, I think via Twitter, said, well, boy, schoolboy error. Donovan, Gift from a Flouter Garden, released in April 1960, I think you'll find. Now, the thing is, it was released in December 1967 in America.
Speaker 1We did set out at the very beginning of the series, we said, look, the most important thing is the album has to have been released in the year that we're talking about. The fact that it might have been delayed release in another territory until the following year is irrelevant.
Speaker 2Yeah, that does not count as a schoolboy error, in my opinion. The other one, which I'm afraid is a schoolboy error for the person accusing me specifically, saying, well, Tim, I think you'll find. Rumbelows didn't sell records. I worked in Rumbelows for 12 years, just sold bad electronics.
Speaker 1Poppycock. I bought many, many singles from Rumbelows in Hemel Hempstead, Marlowe's High Street over the years.
Speaker 2I found Rumbelows record bags online, people talking about going into Warrington Rumbelows and buying Genesis Foxtrot and Babylon's Burning on the same day.
Speaker 1Oh, God, not that story again. Well, the thing is, I remember buying singles from Rumbelows very often. So I know, I don't think my whole childhood was a dream, although. So I think, you know, that person now, hopefully, egg on face, yes? I'm hoping so, yeah, yeah. Go to the fridge, take out some eggs and literally just sort of break them on your face. I think it's happening now. That's what we're saying. But I mean, you know, we make many errors. Of course we do. I mean, you can't, you can't, I mean, all of this stuff that we're talking about, I mean, you can't talk about it all without occasionally making stupid error. Now, 1979, the last episode we did, we failed, Tim. We failed to remember that one of our favourite albums was released in 1979 and we didn't even mention it, which is Neil Young, The Crankies, but Neil Young, Russ Never Sleeps was 1979. Now, Neil Young, one of our favourite artists, one of his greatest albums, we didn't even give it a mention. It reminds me a little bit about, you know, as you know, I do these sort of classic album remixes sometimes and sometimes, you know, I try not to read reviews. In fact, I go out of my way to avoid, reading any, any reviews or comments online as a rule. But sometimes you can't help, but see comments about things you've done. And one of the things that's always very fascinating to me is how, if you get, like, for example, I'll see something like this on Amazon. This is the brand new remix by Stephen Wilson of Such and Such an Album. I've loved this album since I was a kid. I've listened to the remix and I've noticed that on track seven, he's got the hi-hat slightly further over to the left-hand side of the stereo spectrum than on the original. This is a one-star disaster.
Speaker 2Actually, I did notice that as well.
Speaker 1Did you write that? Did you write that? Be honest. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was you. But that's the thing, isn't it? Sometimes you get one little detail wrong and that's it. The whole thing is just a complete write-off as far as that
Speaker 2person's concerned. Yeah. I sort of understand that mentality, as you know, because I've had this sometimes with my collection that, you know, somebody disappoints me and the entire work is jettisoned.
Speaker 1I remember you being upset that David Silvian mispronounced the word inexorably on Secrets of the Beehive and you were almost wondering whether you could even keep the record in your collection because of that error.
Speaker 2Well, it's one of my favorite David Silvian records and that bad pronunciation did affect me very badly. It's inextrably, David, not inexorably.
Speaker 1So 1989, this is an interesting year for both old and new artists. And one of the things that I want to talk about is hip hop music. Now, we've not talked about hip hop music in any of the other episodes so far, mainly because it didn't exist when we were talking about 60s and 70s. And there are two albums that I really love from this year that would fall into that category. One is more on the industrial side, which you may not be so familiar with, which is the Meet Beat Manifesto album, Storm the Studio. But there's also the De La Soul album, Three Feet High and Rising. And this is when hip hop music really seemed to cross over to a wider audience. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's a great record. I became very much more aware of hip hop and rap music at this time. And I completely adored this record. It wasn't misogynistic. And what was interesting about De La Soul, and I think this was a big influence on No Man in the early days, was that it was entirely constructed. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I hope I'm not making a school boy error here. It was almost entirely, if not completely, constructed from samples, wasn't it? So basically taking musical elements from other
Speaker 2records and then rapping over the top. And they were using unusual samples. So you'd hear Steely Dan in the mix and so on. And it was, yeah, it's interesting. And what I liked about hip hop at that point was more the production side of things, where you were taking the music of the past and genuinely through technology and samplers, making something fresh out of it. And the De La Soul album was very different because it had a different lyrical perspective. As you say, it wasn't particularly angry. It wasn't a preferred public enemy because I think public enemy had a real violent attack that you felt strongly. But yeah, in terms of their use of samples and playfulness, it was quite a lovely and charming album, which is not something at that point you could have said about hip hop music.
Speaker 1But what you've just said, isn't that a bit like saying that you prefer Slayer to Nick Drake, in a sense, although these two albums are, you know, essentially from the same, you know, musical genre, in a way they couldn't be more different, could they? These two artists, I should
Speaker 2say. Absolutely. I'm just saying that, you know, in terms of the impact it had on me, I was more interested in it from a technical point of view, whereas with Public Enemy, I would listen to it for pleasure. With De La Soul, I'd listen to it from a technical perspective, thinking now that's interesting, that I like, what can I do with this? And I'm sure that, you know, you as a producer as well have done this, where you've listened to albums that you've thought are fascinating and brilliant, but you don't like them that much.
Speaker 1Oh, sure. Many, many times. I mean, De La Soul, Three Feet High and Rising is not one I would put in that category. I genuinely love the record. I listened to it again recently. It still has a genuine kind of organic, golden kind of warmth to it. It's incredibly charming. It really draws you in. Something about the personality of the three guys and the beats, you know, the idea that you can hear, I mean, this is something that comes from the, you know, whole sampling culture anyway, the idea that you can hear the scratches on the records that they're sampling. The fact that when you're playing a beat from one record with a beat from another record, they're not quite in sync, where things are kind of a little bit clunky, the way they fit together. But it has the charm and it has this, you know, you really, you really kind of hear the fingerprints of the producer.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And for me, you know, that whole technique, I mean, it reaches a peak with somebody like Tricky for me in the mid-90s, where he's clearly not conventionally musical and he's overlaying samples or recordings that are hugely inappropriate that most musicians would avoid, but it's producing fascinating results.
Speaker 1And if we sort of look forward to maybe to Trip Hop, which in many ways this album is that is kind of like the beginnings of trip-hop music in a way. I kind of feel that. If you look forward five, six years to artists like Portishead, and particularly an album like the DJ Shadow album, which is another album introducing DJ Shadow, another album made completely from samples. And, you know, in some ways it's like a manifesto for this very podcast. It's the idea that we don't, in a way, we don't recognise those boundaries. We don't recognise those generic boundaries between music. So it's nice to hear a record where that's also true, you know, and I think Three Feet High and Rising is, you know, is such a record. Yeah. So, you know, something that perhaps is a bit closer to Public Enemy would be the Meet Beat Manifesto album, Storm the Studio. Now, this is really interesting. This is a white guy from Swindon, you know, same town as Andy Partridge and the XTC boys. And Meet Beat Manifesto made music, which I guess was coming from an industrial, alternative industrial background, but discovered, you know, hip-hop music and fused the two and came up with this extraordinary, extraordinary record called Storm the Studio, which is another of the albums. We've talked about these albums before, where it's a double album with just four tracks. So each track takes up a whole side of a record. And the sort of creative possibilities that that presents to the artist to be able to explore a single idea across a whole side of music. You know, you go back to those early 70s albums by Miles Davis, where there's one track aside, or an album like Tales from Topographic Oceans by Yes, or Incantations by Mike Oldfield, one track aside. So this is, in a way, the kind of industrial hip-hop equivalent of that. And again, the other thing is that the breadth of sort of sources of the samples that are used on this record, everything from 60s sort of spiritual jazz records to 80s new romantic pop to industrial music from the late 70s, all mixed up in this kind of soup. And I suppose, in a way, it has got that aggression of something like Public Enemy, hasn't it? Although, albeit through a very English kind of perspective.
Speaker 2Yeah. And as well, you can see that kind of lineage. I mean, one of the other albums from this year, Nine Inch Nails, Pretty Hate Machine, where it's kind of combining even aspects of metal and electropop, but in quite fresh, late 80s industrial ways, you know. So there's Skinny Puppy in there, but equally there's an aspect of, say, Metallica, and there's even Depeche Mode, I think. Very much. You know, quite an influence on this.
Speaker 1Yeah, very much. And, you know, I know you're not, I'm not a big fan. We talked about these records, but they are an influence on these guys, like Skinny Puppy and Mannequin Beat Manifesto. Stuff like White House and Throbbing Gristle and Mertz Band, the pure noise. So the aesthetics of noise is also present in these records. And there is a passage on Storm the Studio where it's literally a hip hop beat with just ear splitting unpleasant feedback for about two minutes. I love it. It's not an easy listen.
Speaker 2Well, I think it's kind of interesting. I think for me, Nine Inch Nails, I can see it. You know, I can see how there's different No Man, Were from these records. De La Soul, Meet Beat Manifesto is definitely in the mix. And equally, talking of 1989, I can hear the ethereal nature of, say, Hugo Largo, who were making very beautiful music. I mean, Hugo Largo, an American band who had two bass players, a violinist and a vocalist. So it was a very unusual lineup and produced a sort of 480 Cocteau's influence music, but had more of an earthy, Americana and beat poetry influence. And in many ways, when I think of what you and I were listening to at this time, you had the ethereal elements of people like Hugo Largo, the classical minimalism, Steve Reich, who'd obviously done one of his greatest works this year in terms of it being released anyway, Different Trains and Electric Counterpoint. And that combined with the production innovation that you hear on Meet Beat Manifesto and De La Soul. And I think that in some ways, you can also hear on that the breeding ground for trip hop, as you said.
Speaker 1Well, lest we get too self-referential here, talking about reminiscing about our olden days. I remember those No Man albums when we were together. In fact, let's pick up and talk about, because obviously the Steve Reich album, Different Trains, Electric Counterpoint was on our list as one of the ones we wanted to talk about. Now, interesting, we talked about Philip Glass's Einstein on the Beach as probably our favourite album from our previous episode, 1979. So 10 years on in minimalist terms, this is quite a different kind of proposition, isn't it? Because this is one of those records that did cross over to people that listen to rock music and pop music and jazz music, not least because one of the sides here is performed by Pat Metheny, who was known as a jazz musician, obviously very clearly in the jazz tradition. And he performed the Steve Reich piece, Electric Counterpoint. Which is a wonderful piece for solo electric guitar. And the other side is a piece that uses speech rhythms to create the rhythms of the piece, which is a fascinating idea, isn't it? So you take the rhythm of somebody talking and you kind of notate that rhythmically and you use that as the basis for a musical composition, which sounds very academic in practice, isn't it? But it's a wonderful.
Speaker 2Well, it's also a very moving piece of work because Different Trains basically is about the. Jewish children in the 30s taking different trains. And so it's kind of people conversing. And I guess it was one of the last times as well when this generation would almost be alive to talk about it and have these vivid memories. And so you have some New York Jewish people talking about their experience going on trains in New York. And then you have the experience of Eastern European Jewish people who are actually going on trains to the concentration camps. And so it's profoundly moving. But as you've said, basically, it works brilliantly. It's quite unpredictable because the string sections follow the rhythms of language and then develop patterns from that. But weirdly, isn't particularly off-putting, maybe because of the emotional content of the voices and the nature of the story, which is so compelling. As for Electric Counterpoint, it's very, very beautiful. It's quite experimental because what you have here is Matheny, I think, playing 16 guitars and four bass guitars. And I think Johnny Greenwood's recorded a version of this relatively recently. And I think because Robert Fripp and King Crimson had taken a lot of their 1980s language from Glass and Reich, it's strangely familiar. It's almost like a beautified version of the instrumental on Discipline, you know, the instrumentals on Discipline. It has three sequences that vary in tempo. And he always pulls off this magnificent trick of bringing in the music that he's playing. He's bringing in all the instruments for the most orgiastic climax.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, it is a sublime piece of music, this. One of my favourite pieces from the whole Minimalist canon. And I don't think that's only because it's, you know, kind of familiar to me as being from, you know, a kind of rock vocabulary in a way, using the guitar as the primary instrument. It's also just the simplicity of the concept of it combined with that melodic, you know, it's such a melodic piece, isn't it?
Speaker 2It's not difficult music. Well, I was going to say that in some ways, I guess it's something that I've always admired, something that isn't remotely difficult to listen to, but is, of course, clearly quite experimental in its composition. You know, this pulls off the trick of being both interesting and highly listenable. And I think Different Trains does that as well.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think that's what it has in common with some of the great Minimalist pieces. Like, you know, we talked about Rainbow in Curved Air by Terry Riley, perhaps not Einstein on the Beach, it's a bit too much of a bigger chunk of music to digest for most people, but perhaps some of his other records like North Star, these kind of accessible Minimalist records that do cross over. We have a whole tradition of musicians that have come from that background, people like Max Richter, the late Johan Johansson, Peter Broderick, Nils Fram, and there's obviously a very strong influence from Minimalist music in what they do. But at the same time, there's much more of a romantic kind of neo-classical element too, which, of course, has got them a lot of work. It's Hollywood, isn't it? I mean, they're doing soundtracks all the time, these guys. But the album I want to talk about, the other album that fits into the kind of classical series composition category, I think, is Glenn Branca's Symphony No. 6, Devil Choirs at the Gates of Heaven. Now, what's really interesting about this is how a record like this does. We've talked about how the Steve Reich piece crosses over to almost a pop and a rock market. This is a record that crosses over to the metal market, isn't it? You can see. You can see the genesis of a band like Sun-O or Earth in something like Glenn Branca. So Glenn Branca is basically playing serious composition but using the electric guitar. Basically, he would put together ensembles of multiple electric guitar players. In this case, I think it's only 10. I say only 10 because some of his other pieces, like Crimson Grail, use about 60 or 70 guitar players. But this one is a more controlled ensemble and it also uses live drums. So at times, although it's minimalist, it almost sounds like it has as much in common with the world of extreme metal, doesn't it? Which is fascinating.
Speaker 2It does. I mean, I was going to say Sun-O, to me, is the most logical development out of Glenn Branca. And in some ways, Glenn Branca, although his language is that of classical minimalism, sonically, it seems to be coming out of Sister Ray by Velvet Underground, in a way. But he's taking that noise element far further. And of course, you know, Reed himself, with metal machine music, had experimented with sheets of guitar noise. Yeah, there's. a pummeling intensity that you can hear in all sorts of work you know post-rock post-metal experimental metal and so on and and obviously a few mainstream artists at the time were fascinated by him so David Bowie even had a kind of Glenn Branca style version of Look Back in Anger as an extra during this sort of era.
Speaker 1Well I mean there is a certain ecstasy to be had from that kind of like that mass sound of you know just layering that euphoria you get from pure texture and pure noise and you know we talked about this before with relation to noise music and I know you're not such a fan of noise music but I struggle to articulate sometimes why I love that sound and it is that kind of euphoria you get from just pure pummeling texture and you certainly have that with a piece like Devil Choirs at the Gates of Heaven you have it also with the with the the saxophone equivalent the the French group Urban Sax who were like 50 or 60 saxophone players just layering textures and I love that stuff by the way I've just made a terrible schoolboy era Crimson Grail was of course a piece by Glenn Branca's chum stroke rival Rhys Chatham and he used two I've just looked it up on Wikipedia 200 guitars on a Crimson Grail that's an extraordinary listen too yeah if you want to hear what it sounded 200 guitars all playing the same thing together sounds like Rhys Chatham's a Crimson Grail sorry I was going to
Speaker 2say what was kind of interesting as well I guess with uh Branca is yes it had a massive crossover into a kind of a rock and alternative indie audience at that time and one of the things I find interesting about 1989 is that the 80s are coming apart because one of the things we found is that 79 80 81 82 it's almost like worlds are being created many people are operating in quite a diverse territories and by the mid-80s I think we said this before there was some kind of impact of band-aid but there's also a massive impact of the producer you know Trevor Horn was a huge influence at this point Rupert Hine was a huge influence and what was astonishing is and 86 87 88 how many albums sounded the same you know whether it was Christy Berg or the Wooden Tops the drum processing would be similar the keyboard sound would be similar the guitar sound would be similar there was a certain period in the mid-80s I mean a great example here Neil Young landing on water you know which is such a definitive 1980s sounding album in which he loses himself rather than defines that material and by the late 80s and a lot of the albums we're discussing are proving this things are fragmenting things are becoming more natural more distinct again it's almost like the decade came to a halt in the middle and then it's exploding outwards towards the end
Speaker 1so maybe let's
Speaker 2talk
Speaker 1now about how how the old guard are adapting in the late 80s I mean you mentioned Neil Young he did actually put out a great record this year uh free freedom which I think many people would consider to be um you know a bit of a return to form after him kind of losing his way a little bit in the 80s although there are some good records in the I like old ways particularly but freedom is definitely a statement of intent and interestingly freedom has some of the aesthetics of noise on it as well in pieces like um uh don't cry um you and it's a very bizarre version of on Broadway you can hear him using the noise elements of of his guitar playing and I think you can you can pick up on the fact that he's been listening to stuff like sonic youth for example sure but also things like glenn branker um and reese chatham but I think another artist that we've talked about before on the show and he's because he's endlessly fascinating even when he's not firing in all cylinders david bowie is endlessly fascinating isn't he and this is the year he made his big stab at repositioning himself in the kind of alternative culture of bands like sonic youth and pixies with his quote-unquote band tin machine and their first album now I remember us both being very excited about this record because everything about on paper everything about this record on paper sounded great didn't it david bowie uh you know this record is a great record and this is a great record and I think it's a great record and I think it's a great record and I think it's a great record and I think it's a great record and I think it's a great record this genius who'd managed to take all of these different genres and twist them to his own bidding many times before um was taking on something that we both kind of liked and we were just fascinated by what he was going to do with this so tin machine I mean I bought it on the day of release I'm sure you did too I was very disappointed although I think time has probably been a little bit kinder to it but at the time it felt like for the first time bowie had kind of failed to redefine something in his life and I think it's a great record and I think I think you're right I think the
Speaker 2thing is that bowie did disappoint a great deal in the 80s and you know I'm a big fan of let's dance which I always think is quite underrated but as we know tonight and never let me down I think you know two of the worst albums if not the two worst albums he ever released but they weren't quite as disappointing because it didn't feel like he was trying you know these albums to an extent it seemed like he decided that his film career was more important than his career and so I think it's a great record and I think it's a great record plus he was also producing some very interesting work outside of that you know his soundtrack work for absolute beginners or um suburbia
Speaker 1was that but it was
Speaker 2later slightly later 1990s um but he also did uh this is not america with pat metheny which was fantastic worked on the labyrinth soundtrack again not particularly bad stuff and I'm trying to have another soundtrack that he did that was interesting when the wind blows the title track to that is one of the most bizarre bowie pieces of all time so you kind of sort of have to think about that and I think it's a great record that the ability was there if you wanted to display it but you know he was going to take aspects of pixies sonic youth and so on and fashion them in his own show
Speaker 1the kids show the kids how it's done that that's what he was thinking wasn't
Speaker 2it and I and you know on listening to bus stop from tim machine I didn't really get that impression yeah
Speaker 1I mean there's a couple of good tracks I can't read it I can't read a fantastic piece yeah but he's actually done a better version of it you know subsequently if you've heard the version on the uh yes of really is it is it any wonder it's a much better version yeah I mean it was it was very disappointing and basically I listened to it for a couple of days and then I went back to my uh my copy of daydream nation and my copy of pixies do little uh because they were just basically so much better uh sadly um so I mean but let's see how some of the other old guard kind of adapted to the late 80s uh van morrison as we've talked about before he kind of adapts by not adapting doesn't he he kind of adapts by completely ignoring everything that's going on around him and I love the record he made this year avalon sunset but it is another time when van proves to us that he's got no idea no idea what's going on in the zeitgeist and he just does his own thing doesn't it's a beautiful record one of my favorite van morrison pieces of all on this record one of my favorite pieces of all period uh in coney island which is just a two minute orchestral miniature with van reciting a story from his childhood over the top and it's so affecting in a way that nothing on tin machine uh is affecting and also that track contacting my angel this is a beautiful beautiful but then you've got a duet with cliff richard I mean that's mad that's mad and it's actually not bad
Speaker 2it's not too bad no I mean obviously contacting my angel is absolutely beautiful and it is morrison at his most spiritual and engaging and as you say coney island it's hypnotic he has such a wonderful speaking voice um it's it's a mixed album you know I'd say it's kind of 50 60 absolutely beautiful and they're agreed 40 it's verging on christopher
Speaker 1agreed agreed but I can forgive that I can forgive that but I can forgive
Speaker 2it because it's completely honest you know this is somebody following their muse and I think even with cliff richard because you know you've got to think of his vintage that when he was a kid cliff richard was an authentic british rock and roll star and although he became mocked although I would argue that some of cliff richard's 70s you know totally agree but in the 50s he actually was a convincing british Elvis and that's the era that morrison would have been brought up in so it's him working with an old hero so there's actually something quite tender about that collaboration um yeah a good album that's great in the sense that as you say he's not remotely following the the narrative that an artist should be at that point but he's pulling off his work well and I'd argue that you know maybe paul mccartney's doing the opposite this year because I have this on the list here yeah
Speaker 1flowers in the dirt is from this year uh not so convincing right it isn't so convincing I mean we've been on it yeah we've been a bit cruel to paul mccartney on the show I mean I should I say we I have been a bit cruel to mccartney on the show I wasn't very very complimentary about mccartney too um I'm sure there will come a day when we'll be able to talk about mccartney album in glowing terms because there are london town yeah listen I think london town's got some great um I am a mccartney apologist but flowers in the dirt again is it's one of his misfires isn't it
Speaker 2I think with this it almost seems like he's had some great writing sessions with costello and he could have gone all the way in that direction but he's pulled back and so it's not really satisfying either the people who want this reinvigorated mccartney or the old mccartney it's a real halfway house and if you get the deluxe version of flowers in the dirt which which I did all of the demos that he wrote with um costello and it's really lovely it's got a fantastic sound feel it's just the two of them with acoustic guitars singing together and you can kind of feel the excitement and there are some great songs on it a couple of which end up on flowers in the dirt a couple of which end up on elvis costello albums years
Speaker 1later so let's just briefly go through some of the other albums that the old guard in inverted commas released this year so you mentioned elvis costello elvis costello spike came out this year uh pretty pretty good record right very good in parts yeah peter gabriel's passion which i think is amazing uh which is a soundtrack to to the last temptation of gross uh i think uh just fantastic i mean most of gabriel's soundtrack work uh is sublime but i think this might be the the greatest i think it's his best
Speaker 2soundtrack album and actually you know i might put it as maybe the third best piece of gabriel album of all time it's a great piece of work i i
Speaker 1would agree with you i think it's in my top three gabriel albums a wonderful record uh bob dylan's own mercy i'm not so familiar with but i know at the time it was very much viewed as a a massive return to form i loved there was one
Speaker 2review at the time which of course was a great review and i think it's a great review and i think people keep on saying this is a massive return to form well it is if you're listening to it from another room now is
Speaker 1that also true of lou lou reads new york i remember hearing at the time and the the press were gushing about it yeah but he is he is again like dylan he's one of those artists that that every time they make a new album it almost seems like the music press are falling over themselves to proclaim it uh a return to form and then the next album is actually no this is the return to form yeah yeah yeah um so they're kind of dismissing it and they're dismissing the previous album that they'd said was the return to form new york it's a it's a good album isn't it is it a great lou reed album uh i'm
Speaker 2not sure it sounds good um he's clearly quite committed to it but it's kind of over long i've always found it a bit dreary i mean songs for drella that came a year later i think is a masterpiece i think it's one of lou reed's best albums was that his return to form tim that was his return to form
Speaker 1i guess it depends what you're looking for from a lou reed album isn't it i mean it the arrangements are not that interesting on this record to me they're not they're not interesting enough uh but my brother roger is a big fan of this record for example you know he he would um he would disagree with us uh so i suppose it depends on your perspective but for me i wasn't that blown away with it i was reading what was being written about it in the music press and it wasn't quite translating to what i was hearing so anyway let's let's move on from the old guard to the newer guard now we have a really interesting list of records this year from the so-called art pop sort of uh area uh xtc's oranges and lemons a great record i think one of the problems we have with this record is that it's not a great record it's not a great record it's not a great record xtc on this show is that every record xtc make is is is great um we're just waiting for the opportunity to talk about one that i suppose is really exceptional oranges and lemons is another great record but i don't know if it's it's an exceptional xt xtc i think part of the problem
Speaker 2with that is that the cover kind of indicates a parody which it isn't you know it's actually got quite a sort of colorful 1980s production but i think it probably suffers because it's a really good album but it suffers because skylarking was so good yeah and also
Speaker 1the production is probably more so than any other xtc album it does sound very 1980s the production also does it's the same true perhaps of kate bush's uh release from this year the sensual world it's a it's a good kate bush album i don't think she's ever made a bad one um but it's not perhaps up there with the the previous work is it um in terms of its creativity and its sonics aren't quite as good as they were on the previous records for me it has a slightly 80s sort of patina to it again um but some great songs on it i mean the single i remember hearing the single and thinking oh the album is going to be another masterpiece um and it wasn't the single for me what is probably the highlight on that record that that and uh this woman's work is a beautiful song of course
Speaker 2reaching out is wonderful as well there's some great pieces on it um i think it just didn't seem quite as tight as the previous albums you actually there's a lot deeper understanding there are a lot of tracks on this that i rate really highly um i wasn't particularly uh it's is it rocket's tail rocket's tail
Speaker 1yeah just doesn't doesn't really work does it with with
Speaker 2yeah and the bulgarka tree of bulgarka there are a few kind of production tricks on this which missed the mark and she'd never previously missed the mark but it contained some of her most beautiful tracks and as you say the title track i remember being so excited by that
Speaker 1uh we've got um other stalwarts of this show the blue null release hats this year which is i mean pretty much a refinement of the first album in the sense in that sense probably my favorite blue nile album but there's probably nothing more we can say about the blue null that we haven't already said really the three albums i do want to focus on from this year in this category we try and talk about them as briefly as we can given that we've still got a lot to go through but the three records i think from the art pop scene um all bands that we have yet to talk about on this podcast but all three are bands that i know are very very close to to our hearts which are the tears for fears and prefab sprout and i know you're not such a big fan of tears for fear so i'm maybe maybe talking more about myself there but the the tears for fears and prefab sprout are the three albums for me are just fantastic the the mind bomb uh which is a mad record it is and and
Speaker 2obviously quite prophetic as well because a lot of the lyrics are about um middle eastern wars and so on which of course you had on infected as well there was um a track about this um and he brings in eastern middle eastern musical influences yeah it was also what was interesting about this album was it was a great almost conceptual rock album if that makes any sense there was a real yeah he
Speaker 1starts the record with this eight minute good morning beautiful where he's just kind of ranting over the top and he gets angrier and angrier as it goes on and you're starting your record with this i mean that that's bold isn't it that's pretty bold to follow a commercial success with a an opening track like
Speaker 2that well you can hear aspects of sort of floyd zeppelin roy harper in the mix but it's a very spacious 1980s production and incredibly powerful and there's the duet with wonderful and i think um a couple of the ballads on the second side which sort of hint at what talk talk are doing around the same time as well
Speaker 1yeah i mean i think talk talk is a good is a good comparison here because it's almost like this is like the the spirit of eden perhaps not quite the reinvention is not quite as extreme no but there is a sense that this is a person almost retreating from um any consideration for the commercial mainstream yeah this is my album so i think it's a good comparison because it's almost like this is like the the spirit of eden statement um and of course you do and he did pay you know he did pay the price for that commercially i don't think i don't think there were any big hits off this record but an incredibly bold record and and the cover of course is absolutely absurd too uh matt johnson's head shaped in the shape of a of a nuclear of a i'm sorry of a warhead uh i mean just absurd isn't it yes and i think isn't it
Speaker 2the dove of peace is actually stabbed on the back of the album as
Speaker 1well yeah i mean there's no subtlety here at all is there but apart from musically where
Speaker 2there's some great playing some you know there's some wonderful shuffling rhythms beautiful textures and johnny mars got to get a shout out on this because of course it was one of his first major post smith's recordings and he really shows his versatility as a guitarist you know he was always a brilliant guitarist in the smiths but he was perhaps limited by the smith's core sound but this is stunning you know his work on
Speaker 1it and also you've got mark felton on harmonica that sound that we love so much from talk talk records as well uh so that's another kind of uh kind of connection between the talk talk and the the worlds of talk talk and the yeah now talking about bands that really sort of seem to be reaching out beyond the commercial mainstream to make big album statements tears for fears the seeds of love for me this is one of the greatest albums ever made uh period uh now we've we've discussed this over the year tim i know you're not a big fan of this record i remember having arguments with you at the time you thought it was like stadium rock you know there's something about it that was very uh you know pompous and stadium rock about it i love that about it too i love the fact that it sounds big the performances on it are in some ways the very antithesis of what people were doing in the 80s this was a band that were bringing in you know shit hot session players like omar hakeem and phil collins and pino paladino um and letting them really rip and be quite muso um but in the context of fantastic songs i mean just the best songwriting songs like women in chains why women in chains isn't one of the most famous you know power ballads of all time i will never understand a classic song that completely died when it was released as a single but also songs like year of the knife standing on the corner of the third world bringing in people like john hassell to play trumpet bad man's song this incredible kind of epic soul r&b jazz i don't
Speaker 2know how you describe it um you see i didn't i think this is the thing that i guess that i tend to sometimes play devil's advocate because actually i do think this is a very good album some of the best material they've written as you're saying standing on the corner of the third world in particular i think it's an astonishing piece there's some great playing and some great production i think my feeling at the time was that this and oranges and lemons to a certain extent represented the dying gasp of the 1980s if that makes any sense to you that there were other productions other recordings and it could have been de la soul or hallelujah by happy mondays which actually i maybe didn't like as much as i liked as the tears for fears but i felt this was where the future lay in terms of production or in terms of combination of musical influences so actually yeah i think it's a tremendously accomplished album with some great pieces and i'd rate it um possibly as their best album because i think on this it's become slightly more organic and slightly more expressive again perhaps there's that kind of talk talk influence that pervades the the is also slightly pervading tears for fears and you know songs from the big chair and the hurting which i also like you know actually particularly the hurting which has got very claustrophobic electronic sound they're expanding their palette in a beautiful way so actually you know i always thought it was a good album i still think it's a good album it's just the timing of that release and in truth part of the reason why i'm so negative about it at the time was that i wanted you to develop tracks in a different style because i could see how beguiling this album was to
Speaker 1you i mean this is also the album where roland really comes forward as a singer i mean roland we've heard him sing shout on the previous record but but obviously the big hit was was kurt smith singing but here roland is dominant i mean sings almost everything on this record and what a voice what a voice
Speaker 2years like you know i think some of their mid-90s so like raoul and the kings of spain amazing really really strong albums and he has a fantastic voice you know but
Speaker 1let's let's maybe flip over now slightly into the world of a more alternative uh you know world um so there's a lot of a lot of really great records coming from the sort of alternative scene this year the cure disintegration i suppose is the most famous you you've already mentioned uh nine inch nails pretty hate machine which was the beginning again of something very different um i mean nine inch nails you know really in a way defined uh you know created their own sound the drawing from industrial music and metal music but giving it a kind of incredible pop sheen that had never been there before it didn't have the diy aesthetic that a lot of the precursors had had this sounded like stadium rock so again i think that the second and third records much more much more important records to me downward spiral yeah and the fragile to come but this is the beginning of that sound well
Speaker 2you can also hear the roots i think some of his processing you can hear aspects of gabriel three and four in the way in which he processes synths and guitars and you can hear a lot of gary newman in
Speaker 1there as well um so we also have this year nirvana's bleach their first album obviously a sign of greater things to come again um the cure's disintegration i think it's borderline canon this record i mean we we've talked about the cure uh before so maybe even though this is one of their greatest records i think it is a record that's been perhaps discussed quite a lot so maybe it's more interesting to talk about some of the other records from this year now one that we do want to talk about is the stone roses debut album and your gig is going to be a lot of fun and a lot of giggling because the reason we want to talk about is because neither of us can really get why this record is canon but it is canon isn't it it's become it's become a stalwart of greatest albums of all times list hasn't it i mean it's all it's if it's not in the top five it's almost always at least in the top 20 in the greatest albums of all times lists
Speaker 2um why i i really honestly can't tell you i mean fool's gold the single released this year by the band is a wonderful piece of work and you you can hear with that and hallelujah by happy mondays the manchester sound is formulated this fusion of dance and indie great records although even at the even at the time though i was thinking is this one of the first revivals because of course at the at the dawn of the decade you had bands like talking heads and a certain ratio and a lot of no wave artists from new york fusing funk and almost indie new wave influences so it wasn't that fresh but they were doing something different with it and you know certainly there was a especially a madcap policy to happy mondays that was delightfully unpredictable but the album you know i listened to it again for the podcast to see if suddenly it became the revelation that it never was but you know i remember some wag saying that let alone you know not being in the top 10 greatest albums of all time it wasn't even in the top 10 greatest albums of the week it was released in you know and
Speaker 1well i i would have some sympathy with that viewpoint because they're you know there are so many great albums coming from the alternative scene this year we mentioned the cure uh but also you know albums by artists like kitchens of distinction pixies a arcane uh the shaman's basement three wire swans juriti column new orders technique came out this year which one could argue is a more is a more convincing fusion of of the worlds of dance and alternative music but again it's the stone roses self-titled that gets all the accolades isn't it yeah i don't i don't get it i i i've tried you know like you i've bought it i bought it at the time i think i bought it again recently you know still to see if i could figure out what
Speaker 2all the fuss was about no when i heard this album it's it reminded me at the time it reminds me now it's a bit like a weaker version of the lars colliding with a weaker version of the chameleons because there's something
Speaker 1and a weaker version of the birds as well and aspects of the birds
Speaker 2yeah and there's even that uh simon and garfunkel lift on one of the tracks as well elizabeth i think but um you know the chameleons were making really interesting albums in in the mid 80s you know they one of the manchester scene bands i'm sure stone roses were were drawing from um yeah i just couldn't see it and i still can't see it and there
Speaker 1are so many people whose opinion i really respect that love this album and love this band you know shane meadows the filmmaker i mean he even made a documentary about stone roses because he loves them so much and i i guess like you i've struggled and maybe it is our failing you know maybe it is so maybe we should invite the the people listening to this podcast to make their case for why why why why is a masterpiece because i just don't i just don't hear it and i want to because i've you i can usually figure it out somehow but i've just never been able to figure
Speaker 2out with this record well another album from this year with northwestern singer that's just basically a guitar band album which i think is really good is the kitchens of distinction album from this period where there's some you know and what i like about their music is a bit like mark eitzel who released a couple of albums of the american music club this year there's this kind of from the gutter to the stars quality in both the music and the lyrics where they can produce something that's almost kitchen sink and then there are these angelic cascades of guitar that shatter the soundscape and um you know kitchens of distinction i found a lot more exciting during this time than stone roses american music club i found a lot more exciting
Speaker 1almost everything almost everything i found a bit more exciting than than the first stone roses album at this point yeah no you're right kitchens of distinction first album love is hell came out this year third time we opened the capsule if you don't know the band just go and listen to third time we opened the capsule that's such a great track uh from this album so just you mentioned american music club now let's so let's move over i've got these guys slightly in a slightly different category here although they do in some ways belong also to the world of alternative music there's a singer-songwriter sensibility that i that i've this meant i've put them in the singing room i've put them in the songwriter category here but you're you're a massive fan of american music club and mark eitzel tim so maybe introduce us to this world of this band in
Speaker 2some ways you know when i hear american music club to me the lineage is tim buckley nick drake it's the classic singer-song writers of the 60s and 70s but with that kind of um american 80s indie sound and perhaps even an influence from some of the british new wave artists like joy division um it was just profoundly emotional moving music which seemed to cut through a lot of the affectation that the 1980s had delivered really but i think they go on to more interesting work especially when they work with mitchell froome the producer i mean mitchell froome is one of the great production voices of the 1990s and um he did mercury with american music club which i think is fantastic release so also this
Speaker 1year we have um a very good ricky lee jones album flying cowboys we have julie cruz floating into the night of course which which kind of exploded because of the success of of twin peaks uh jane sibry she's now she's an interesting artist isn't she um bound by the beauty this year maybe maybe my favorite jane sibry record uh i'm not the world's biggest i'm not the world's biggest jane sibry fan but i was always interested in in you know what she would do what she was doing and she's another artist that kind of in the same way that mark arts and american music club have never really crossed over into the mainstream she's kind of similarly remained very much an outsider and i think that's what's really interesting about her voice hasn't she even though there's something about her music that is very very slick and very polished and you could have seen with the right song perhaps how she might have crossed over to a sort of a cape but almost a kate bush
Speaker 2style market because she has so much in common with with kate well katie lang um covered a couple of her tunes so you can see how it could cross over into the mainstream i suppose that if you've not heard jane sibry i guess the best description of her best albums for me and i'd say the walking and when i was a boy are my two favorites so i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it for those curious listeners and i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a
Speaker 1very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to put it i think that's a very good way to describe it yes somewhere between kate bush and laurie anderson that that's a perfect way to describe what she does and that's not to not to say that she doesn't have her own sound too because she does but but that that's a very good way to put it for those curious um but i think the album that that is my favorite singer songwriter round from this year is by our favorite pervert momus uh nicholas curry who made don't stop the night this this year which i think if push comes to shove is my favorite moments record it's the one i've spent the most time listening to it's when he fully embraced uh the kind of pet shop boys aesthetic didn't he with a sort of electronic pop but with his incredibly perverted uh lyrical subject matter i've actually covered one of the most pervy songs on this record which is the guitar lesson but i love that sequence on side two or side two as was in the days of vinyl on this record that sequence of amongst women only which is about women's masturbation, followed by The Guitar Lesson, which is about a paedophile, followed by The Cabriolet, which is about a necrophile. But the twist here is that all three of those songs are devastatingly beautiful, aren't they, and have an emotional heart to them that completely destroys me. And I was completely besotted with this record. It's, as I say, still my favourite moments record. I mean, again, an artist that would never cross over to the mainstream, could never cross over to the mainstream, although, ironically, Hairstyle of the Devil was an almost hit, wasn't it, from this era?
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. I mean, Steve Wright championed it at the time, so it got a lot of Radio 1 play. I think you're right. I think what is kind of appealing about his music is that superficially it's quite beautiful, it's quite accessible, but you dig beneath the surface and it's quite perverted. And it reminds me a bit of the writing of Ian McEwan because I think he had this way of writing quite beautifully about foul things. And that effectively is what Amomus does. And on this album, he does embrace pop more openly. And I kind of always saw him as being a contemporary folk artist, that, you know, what would a contemporary folk artist do in 1989? They'd draw from New Order. They'd draw from the Pet Shop Boys. They would apply their songs to the production techniques of the day. And, yeah, it's definitely one of his strongest albums, partly because it shows him at his most outgoing and pop, but it also shows him at his most willfully, perverse and beautiful.
Speaker 1There's something in him of the tradition of people like Jacques Brel as well, isn't there? Jacques Brel could write a song like Amsterdam, which on the surface is this pop song, but then you realise it's about people in the gutter. You know, it's about the whores and the drunks. And I think there is something in that tradition in Amomus, isn't there? He's writing about the people on the very outskirts of the human race, but in a way that almost makes you sympathetic.
Speaker 2Well, I think as well, one of the things that you kind of hit on is that what we've always quite liked, you know, when we talked about. when we talked about the first wave of underground and progressive bands, one of the things that made them interesting is they weren't only drawing from rock, they were drawing from classical, they were drawing from jazz, they were drawing from folk. And the interesting thing with Amomus is he might be using the language of the Pet Shop Boys or New Order in terms of production, but he's drawing from Brel, he's drawing from Gainsbourg, he's drawing from the folk tradition, almost a Scottish folk tradition sometimes with his melody. You can hear aspects of Donovan even. And I think it's. I think he's bringing something fresh to a recognised genre.
Speaker 1So we're getting to the end now, Tim, I think. So just a couple of other genres to talk about. Jazz records or jazz satellites, as I've got it here, because these are not strictly jazz records. The Next released their first album this year. It's not their best, and they're going to go on to make much more important records. And I'm sure we'll talk about The Next in future podcasts. The Extraordinary Australian Minimalist Jazz Improvisation Trio, The Next, their first album this year. So an institution is born this year. Miles Davis' Aura from this year. Good album? Not bad, yeah. Not his best playing, I think, but an interesting record in his catalogue. Keith Jarrett's Personal Mountains, which actually is an archive record from 79, but came out this year. John Zorn's Spy vs. Spy, Bill Frizzell's Before We Were Born. I don't know either of those records, but obviously both great artists. So let's talk now about. Let's just briefly talk about. Let's talk about the world of progressive rock, because it is something very close to our hearts, an area that we've both worked in as musicians as well. Some people think I've never worked in any other genre. Of course, they're wrong. Personal shopper? Prog. Yeah. Bass communion? Prog, yeah. Anyway, so. Anyway, the bottom line is, it's not a great year for progressive rock, is it? Mike Oldfield releases, for me, possibly his worst album ever.
Speaker 2Earthmoving. See, Earthmoving, that's another album that I think that. Michael Bearpart might have owned, and it ended up in everybody's collections. We'd sneak it in bags and then sneak it in somebody's collection when they weren't looking.
Speaker 1As we did with the Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howell records. Indeed, yeah. Osric Tentacles released their first. Actually, I say their first. They'd released a lot of tapes until this point, but they released their first actual vinyl release this year. So another institution is kind of born this year. Cardiacs, we've talked about on previous episodes. One of my favourite bands of all time. Of course, Tim Smith has just passed away, very sadly. They released their album On Land and in the Sea this year, which is an amazing record. You know, I mean, if you just haven't listened to Cardiacs, just go and listen to them. You'll either hate it or love it. They're a Marmite band. They're a band that kind of fused somehow the aggression and urgency of punk with the complexity and sophistication of progressive rock in a way that no one has ever achieved quite the way Cardiacs did it. On Land and in the Sea, it's a great record. It has one of my favourite Cardiacs tracks on it called A Duck and. Roger the Horse, which kind of gives you an idea there's a very sort of comical slapstick element to them as well. And again, this is not for everyone, but it's certainly for me. I mean, you've never been a big fan of Cardiacs.
Speaker 2No, I mean, again, I listened to the album for the podcast and I think it's brilliant. You know, they're one of the bands where I'm in awe of their gift. They're coming from such a different place harmonically and rhythmically, and it's fascinating and they execute it brilliantly. But it just doesn't touch me for whatever reason.
Speaker 1So also this year, we have Marillion making their first album, Post Fish, which is Season's End, which is a great record. So again, in a way, this is the birth of an institution because this is the Hogarth line-up, a line-up that would become, you know, an institution in the sense that this is a band that began from the point of view that most people had written them off. I suspect most people had written them off after the departure of their charismatic lead singer. And yet they come out with a great record with another charismatic singer and would go on to forge this incredible relationship with their fan base, which really starts here, doesn't it? Well, Fish also has his solo
Speaker 2album, doesn't he, this year?
Speaker 1Vigil in a Wilderness of Mirrors was released in January 1990. Oh, really? What a terrible era.
Speaker 2That is a terrible, I admit it. Because I was thinking it's kind of interesting. You obviously had two of these institutions of the 80s, the Smiths and Marillion, who part in a way. And Marillion obviously do the Genesis trick, you know, which is very difficult to pull off.
Speaker 1But yes, I mean, it's a tough thing to, it's a very tough thing to pull off replacing your, your iconic front man with someone else. And, you know, and certainly now they, you know, they have a very, very solid fan base and their records do very well and continue to sell. So this is really the beginnings of that, building that fan base here.
Speaker 2Well, I think they made the right decision because what they didn't do was get a Fish replica.
Speaker 1Okay, so let's finish off with one last category, which is the only thing we haven't really talked about, really, which is what was going on in the world of, you know, the mainstream pop world at this time. You know, obviously there are some records we talked about that were pretty successful and did reach the top of the charts. You know, Dayless Soul was a very successful record. Tears for Fears was a successful record. But I'm talking about the real, you know, the pop mainstream now. And I think the real star for me on this list, I'm going to go through the list now, Soul to Soul, Club Classics, which was a very important record at the time. I remember being very influential, even though it wasn't my kind of thing, really. Madonna's Like a Prayer was a very big record this year. Prince, Batman soundtrack, not his best, but certainly a good record.
Speaker 2Good tracks, I think.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. Still some great tracks on there. I love the future, the opening track. Naina Cherry's Raw Like Sushi seemed very fresh at the time. I remember buying it at the time, being very taken with it. The one record that I still think sounds like the future from this year, and when you listen to it now, you hear the sound of modern pop, both bad and good. And I don't like the sound of a lot of modern pop, although I love this record and I can hear how it's been so influential on the sound of modern pop.
Speaker 2But seriously, Phil Collins?
Speaker 1Not, but seriously, Phil Collins, although that's not a bad record. Is that from this year? I think so. Rhythm Nation, 1814 by Janet Jackson. I don't know if you agree with me, it sounded then like a future and it still sounds very prophetic in the sense the Jammin' Lewis production, the way they're processing her voice. Something about this record still sounds very much like where modern pop is now. That kind of mixture of pop, R&B, hip hop, urban culture. And has some fantastic pop. I mean, I love the title track. I still think, along with Britney Spears' Toxic, one of the great pop songs to come from a sort of female pop icon that isn't Madonna.
Speaker 2Yeah, I agree. I think the title track is a stunning piece of work. And I think there's something in the imagery,
Speaker 1the video. Yeah, the dance routines, all of that stuff.
Speaker 2That really does hint at what people like Beyonce are going to do years later. And it does have quite a dark, conceptual quality as well. Yes, very much. Partly the militaristic overtones of the imagery. But yeah. Also,
Speaker 1you have these little interludes all the way through the record that suggests a kind of a musical journey, suggests that kind of narrative aspect to the record, which was, you know, again, something you would hear on record, like De La Soul would have that, but you wouldn't hear that, I don't think, on a Madonna record of the time. And I think it's something that a lot of those artists have subsequently picked up on. You know, they're certainly the ones, they have pretensions to be seen, you know, as artists outside of the pop mainstream. Your Taylor Swift's or your, you know, your Kanye West have definitely picked up on that. And I think she's definitely one of the innovators in kind of creating those kind of pure pop records that have that almost conceptual sweep to them,
Speaker 2isn't she? Yeah, and I think in some ways, it reminded me at the time of almost a popped up, glammed up Grace Jones, who I was a huge fan of. And it was quite a brave move for Janet Jackson as well. You know, this once, more manage to be exciting, accessible, but also surprisingly inventive.
Speaker 1But pop is in pretty good health at this time, isn't it? I mean, I'm looking at this list and I'm thinking, yeah, I love that. I like the Naina Cherry record. I like the Madonna record. I love the Liza Minnelli record that she made with Pet Shop Boys. And I love the Janet Jackson record. And I think these are really big. These are the number one records of 1989. And I'm looking at them and I'm thinking, yeah, I like that record. I don't feel this world is alien to me in the way that I honestly feel that modern pop music is alien to me now. I have no interest in it. I don't care what people are doing. When I hear the records, all I hear is the melody and the auto tune, the voice sounding like a synthesizer. And it has no interest to me musically, with a few exceptions, you know.
Speaker 2I agree with that. And I wonder as well, you know, whether we've had something, we were talking about the 80s, that there was this brief time when everybody, as I said, from Christaberg to the Wooden Tops, almost sounded one and the same. And that's kind of how I feel about pop over the last five years, that it's coalesced in terms of the melody and vocal processing, in terms of the rhythm, tempo. It's remarkably similar each year.
Speaker 1You know, I think there are a few exceptions. I mean, I'm fascinated by Billie Eilish's records, at least some of the singles to me. Yeah, the production is amazing. But generally speaking, she is the exception that proves the rule, I think. So Tim, let's wrap up now, because we've been talking for a while now about 89. And what would be your pick or picks from this year as your favourite album of the year? And then maybe the record you see as being the most sort of influential in the longer term?
Speaker 2Well, I'm going to go with another minimalist selection, actually. I think that the album I go back to year after year and still play both in terms of something I find beautiful, entertaining and interesting is the Steve Reich Different Trains Electric Counterpoint.
Speaker 1Okay. And most forward looking album from the year, perhaps?
Speaker 2Well, in some ways, you've got to go with.
Speaker 1Don't say Tin Machine.
Speaker 2I think Tin Machine, obviously, foreshadows Grunge quite brilliantly. Bowie showing that he was on the edge again. No, I'd say probably the De La Soul sounds more like 2020 than any of the other records. And as you say, maybe the Janet Jackson album also hints at what artists like Kanye West and Beyonce are going to do in the 2010s.
Speaker 1Yeah, I would agree with that. I was going to say the Janet Jackson and the De La Soul. I mean, partly because it's hard to deny the fact that urban music culture has become so dominant and so all prevailing in the 21st century. Indeed, yeah. You know, which I'm not so crazy about. I would love to think there'd be more of an influence of rock music in modern pop culture, but there really isn't. The reality is that urban music has become completely dominant, perhaps rightly so, perhaps because it has been more forward thinking and looking at this. Yeah, I mean, the most forward looking records on the list are by people like De La Soul and Janet Jackson, as opposed to people like David Bowie, you know, and Van Morrison. So, yeah, so I'm going to agree with you. My favorite albums from the year, I would have to go with Tears for Fierce Seeds of Love. Just still one of my favorite albums of all time. Perfect record for me. Meet Big Manifesto, Storm the Studio and the Moments record. I also I also love that record. It's my favorite Moments record. Still sounds fantastically pervy. You know, no one has ever outperved the Moem.
Speaker 2Well, the Moem said something interesting about the future of music as well, because I think he was talking about listening to music in the 80s, having a debate, a bit like we're having a debate about what is the most forward thinking. And apparently Moem has turned around and this was the early 80s. And the younger brother of the person he was listening to the album with was playing a computer game and had all sorts of little sounds and digital rhythms and so on. And Moem has said, that's the most influential sound from now.
Speaker 1He was spot on. Yeah, I mean, that's what I feel like when I listen to modern pop music. I'm listening to the soundtrack to a computer game. And I know I'm old. And this is what I'm supposed to say, because the older generation is always supposed to complain about the younger generation's music. But I think you can. But I think you can also take a step back from that objectively and look at the world that we live in and say that pop music has become more banal. It's not just a question of me becoming older. It has become more banal. And there are musicologists that will analyze the music and tell you that on a musical level, it is more banal. But that is the influence of, I think, computer gaming for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's the thing.
Speaker 2And it's the world over. You know, I was recently in Greece and it's almost a shame when you listen to Greek traditional music, which is so harmonically and rhythmically complex. And then you move into the next restaurant and it's the now soundtrack. And all of this eccentricity has been erased.
Speaker 1Yeah. So there we are. Yeah. So there we are. Two old guys screaming at the clouds. Anyway, so unless you have anything else you want to say, Tim, we should probably wrap up. What do you think?
Speaker 2I've got nothing to say. Absolutely nothing to say.
Speaker 1Nothing to say. Nothing to say about modern pop music. On that bombshell, let's wrap up. Just to say, if you have enjoyed the podcast or any of the podcasts, or if you just want to complain or point out some schoolboy errors, please go onto your podcast platform, wherever you've listened and leave us a rating or review even better. Otherwise, we feel we're just working in it. We just feel like we're operating in a vacuum, don't we, Tim? So it's nice to have feedback. Everyone likes feedback.
Speaker 2I was going to say the only thing about the 2010s and 2000s is that some of my favourite albums have been produced during this time, but it has tended to be by artists like David Bowie, you know, with his Black Star, which was an astonishing genre, a defying album. You know, and so there have been some great albums. And actually, there are new artists like Thundercat, who I absolutely adore, but clearly he's not setting the charts a lot.
Speaker 1No, and I think that's the caveat, isn't it? We're talking about the pop mainstream here. I mean, listen, some of my favourite music, like you, has come out in recent years, like the new Max Richter album, Voices, is one of the best albums I've heard for many years. But, you know, again, this is someone that's more associated with the world of soundtracks. He's not part of the pop mainstream. And he's also our kind of age. He's not part of the age as well, you know, so he's another old git like us. Okay, fantastic. Okay, well, thank you so much for listening to this edition of the podcast. We will be back soon, I hope, with another episode of The Album Years, another year to talk about. Thank you very much for listening and goodbye. Goodbye. you
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