Coming up on Life is a Vastival. The experience of the serum have been properly and conducted properly, allows to tap directly into this pre-boring condition. And because of this particular type of therapeutic state, which sort of peels off all of the layers on top of this pre-boring condition, and why it happens because most of our traumas, these ecological traumas or somatic traumas, are embodied in some way or other on our body. Your body sort of starts exfoliating from this very core, and then the core is unobstructed. The core is the pre-boring condition. So we use a lot of various type of modelosive cleaning, all the way from somatic cleaning, all the way to a mental cleaning, saying, working with memories, chanting to the memories, for example. That's why it's so much connected to the traditional work which is done in Planned Medicine, brought in the Inwask World. Because there it is exactly the same process. So people get easily into this, retrospective trauma or issue, which shapes whatever happens later. So this is what makes it so powerful. My name is Aiman Armstrong, and this is Life is a Festival. This podcast is a celebration of thinkers and leaders who live their lives with the open-hearted, experimental joy of a festival. Each week, we converse in complete openness in an ongoing quest to find those boundaries in our being and melt them into lofty horizons. Life is a festival, only to the wise. Hello, my fellow travelers. I hope that this holiday season has found you well, perhaps thriving, but at the very least, getting through whatever challenges have crossed your path with the support of friends and loved ones and the loftiest of intentions. Today, I'm releasing a podcast that I actually recorded at the beginning of the year last year, and I haven't released it because we went into this crazy pandemic time and it's sort of got lost in the shuffle. But what a great time to come back to the healing power of steam. So today on the show, I'm here with Sasha Byberin and Boris Rybov, and they are the founders of the Stemology Institute as well as the Art of Steam camp at Burning Man. So today, we're going to be talking about the healing power of steam and particularly the Russian Banya. On the show, we talk about ceremony and ceremonial intention. We discuss the history of steam as a pre-Somantic tradition and we get into some of the mythology of the Russian Banya and we talk a little bit about this mischievous bathhouse spirit called the Benic. We talk about the medical benefits of steam bathing, including for mental health and trauma. And finally, at the end, we talk about the power of communal healing, which takes place in the Banya, and which is going to be so important as we emerge from this global pandemic. So they're both originally from Moscow, Sasha and Boris are powerful and dedicated steam masters. They founded the Stemology Institute and the Art of Steam camp at Burning Man, where they've been bringing a traditional Russian Banya all the way out to BlackRock City. So without further ado, here is a beautiful conversation actually from within the Banya from about a year ago with myself, Sasha, and Boris. I hope you enjoy. (sighs) My friends. - Hey. - Hello. - Hello. - It's such a pleasure to be here sitting inside the Banya with you both. Thank you so much for having me out here to your beautiful space. And you do take a Banya to Burning Man, and you're taking a Banya down to Topanga, a mobile Banya, is that correct? - Yes. - You are the steam masters of the Art of Steam. And is that the name of your organization, the Art of Steam? - No, it's we have like a three entities. So we built and created our first Burning Man camp, and it was called Stemology, it was 2016. And after when we understood that we have this type of calling, and we want to go with this way, and we should investigate and bring this culture and to understand what does it mean for us, we created a company which was Stemology, and we changed the name for the camp. It was Art of Steam. So Art of Steam, it is the name of our camp at the Burning Man. And right now we have even three different entities because we have Art of Steam, which is camp. We have Stemology, which is our business company, and we have Stemology Institute, which is our school and movement, and it is non-profit, and it is more connected with our calling and what we're dreaming about to build. - Are you effectively in Stemology Institute campus? - Right now. - Yeah, this feels like this podcast could be in the service of the Stemology Institute, because my hope is that this podcast will be educational to folks who are interested in the many health and spiritual and community benefits of Stem and the traditional Russian Banya. So. - Oh, perfect. - So I'm here with Sasha. Sasha, how do you pronounce your last name? - Baibarin. - Baibarin. - Baibarin. - Baibarin. - Baibarin. - Baibarin. - Basha. - Baibarin. - And Boris. - Well, my last name is really hard to pronounce. - Same as Baibarin. - Same as Baibarin. - That's why I asked you to pronounce it. I didn't want to do it correctly. - So I was here in the United States. I used to call myself Raeabuff, which is somewhat different, but as RYA-BOV, but Raeabuff, but it's Raeabuff is like the Russian way to pronounce everything. - And where are you each from? - I'm a Moscow guy from the most of my time. Moscow guy, Russia. - Very strict and then living here in California for the last couple of years. When did you move to California? - Well, technically three years ago, but I've been doing here business for the last 12 years. So coming going. - Well, yeah, settle down here in Marine, not far from the, or just city of San Francisco. - And it is lovely up here in this county. It's quite a, quite, especially this time of year. And Sasha, how long have you been in the US? - I came first time over here in 2015. It was my first burn and man. So basically the burn and man was, not the reason, but one of the big steps in my, in this, in my, that I came to live in the USA. And technically I moved. I think when I really, I was sitting in Moscow and we reach our first agreement with one of our friends in Tepenga, other one where it was our theme room. And so I came with the idea that, okay, I will stay and build the band. It was beginning of 2017. - I like to start every podcast by asking my guests what a big win would be for them. So for, for you both, in terms of, you know, burners and world travelers and festival adventures listening to today's show, what information, what vibe, what energy would you like to transmit to all the folks listening right now? - I believe all of us, I think about myself, but I think all of us that's dreaming about, better world or about some world which is comes from our dreams. And my world is sincere, my world is warm, my world is, it is, it is, can hug you, my world is embracing and my world is where you can, where you have at least ability to, to really rest and we try and to show that this is exist. And I hope that everybody will remember that it is possible and hopefully this will be transmitted. I think definitely the warm part is going to be transmitted but the world is warm. And, you know, I think with my experience of visiting your, your Banya, I definitely felt a beautiful embrace. So I think we will be able to transmit that during today's conversation. Boris, how about you? What would be a big, a big win for today on the show? - I believe on one end, sincerity is something which can be, which can be a part of everyday life and deep sincerity and as strange as it sounds, it is achievable. You can do it, there are ways to do it and there are practices to do it and we are representing one of those. And I often tend to say in the beginning of a ceremony here, miracles do happen and this can be learned the art of observing miracles and letting them happen and that's the point.
That's the idea. I wish whoever is listening can wrestle with a little bit and think about. - And you just said that when you're opening a ceremony and that was very much my experience when I had the privilege of coming to this bonya and experiencing it. So I've sat in my first experience of a steam room was in my gym when I was a teenager. And me and my friend Matt Scholder would work out together and then we'd sit in the steam room. And within the steam room we would share secrets and we had this expression, it stays in the steam. And this is like Santa Fe, New Mexico, racket club, gym area. Being in the steam was this sort of space. It was another space and this was long before I understood anything about the value of intentional spaces. But we had created an intentional space. Later that's evolved into going to the Archimedes Bonya, going to the Kabuki Spa in San Francisco, going with friends. But I remember early on that the steam seemed like another space, a space where there was a more openness possible. And it sounds like that idea of crossing a threshold into another space can be marked by an invitation to ceremony. - True. So ceremony as a word is just a useful container for when you are sort of intending to go out of the mundane. But it's just a useful word, nothing more. But in the real sense, that's what you're proving to your experience in the first time you went into the steam and had this feeling of openness. The whole notion of stepping over in a different room, not ingesting anything, just being in a natural steam, whatever it is, we have steam as natural. I mean, we all have this round. And all of a sudden have this very specific experience of going through a portal into a different world, which has really different properties. It has a different relation how your souls are working, how your energy is going. It has a profound implication of once you start to observe this. Now, obviously we need to figure out a way to accept it for that reason we use the word ceremony. OK, why not? - A way to accept that you've entered into a new space that is no longer mundane. - Yeah, well, that's the big thing. Once we are growing up, we sort of learn somehow for some funny reason that world is not a miraculous space anymore. That stories are for young boys and girls. And it's not really a fairy tale world. No, no, no, no, no, it's not a fairy tale world. Now, the act of accepting that, well, it's not true. And there is nothing but miracles. This notion needs to sort of dissipate. Now, for that reason, one needs to accept it. It's really hard to accept it if you are ingesting something, because then you can say, OK, I blame my experience on this particular substance or that particular thing or it is hypnosis or whatever it is. But once you have this experience in a natural setting and it's repeatable, and there is no superstition who is basically guiding you through that. It's just yourself, your body, your thoughts and everything. Then it's really hard to reject. So that's why we need some language to operate and that circumstances. We use the word ceremony, but again, not always. I mean, it can be very ceremonial though. And then you have this experience with us. So for the sake of this podcast today, I would like to cross over a threshold into the miraculous. I would like the three of us to cross over a threshold into the miraculous, such that our conversation that is then transmitted to people out in the world can carry that intention of the miraculous. So could you help me do that, perhaps with some of the energy that you put into the ceremonial threshold for the steam? Is that possible? Sure, yes, yes, yes. OK, let's do it. Well, was that it? Did we cross over? Is it? We are actually inside. The biggest part of this threshold is basically intention. And we normally start with this. We normally start with asking to recall the intention whoever is entering mind-have. And you mentioned the intentional spaces. So we are in an intentional space. Trick of the intentional space, though, is that, well, we always have some desires. You know, we always have this idea that we need something, or we need to get rid of something. But once we suggest the intention to be not a desire, but rather a quality of attention. Quality of focus, then all of a sudden, this attention starts to basically project what is miraculous. So this is what changes the mundane into the sacred, into the non-secular in the sense, into the miraculous. So this is the focus, the attention, which starts from just starting to recall what is the most important part of my life is just happening right now in this very moment, what brought me here. That's not the coincidence you are here. That's not the coincidence we are here. So the intention is what shapes the experience, which happens right after that. So whoever is listening to this, that's a great exercise to start with. Just thinking about that, what shapes my life right now. And then keep it for a while once you're listening to what is happening right now with us. What is the name of the branches that are used in the Panya? You mean the trees, or the name of the branches in general? The name of the branches in general, not which particular tree comes from. We call them Vienniki. So this is a Russian word. But the English would be branches or whisks, some of our friends, to try and translate them. Steam rooms. Oh, but they're my-- Steam room. Yeah, I heard little brooms, steam rooms. And there's a ritualized way in which these are used. And I think that intention and ritual kind of weave together really nicely. World together and special space. And they asked myself, how it's happened? Because I know that it's happening. And I thought, how it can be. And when Bani came to my life, one of the things that it's broke, it is understanding that magic exists. And really, it exists. And we can go deep to what does the magic means, but it exists. And to find out this, it is just you have to be really attentive. And what happens in the Baniah, when we're sitting, when we're laying down, when doing the ceremony, when we're doing-- it is you become just super attentive to the space, super attentive to what happens inside. And it can be more awareness that all I feel, my breathing, or I feel some sensations inside. But in one moment, you can-- your attentiveness can become much big. And you can just feel the whole space around you. And when it happens, you see that it is special. It's magical. And in that moment, you cross this threshold and the board. And you repeat in this magical and special place. And I think that's what exists in the Baniah. And that's what's happened right now, when we pass these thresholds and that we are quite in the magical world. I recall when I stepped out of the Baniah, particularly after I had my experience with the little brooms and then the cold water. I felt very still. And I was able to pay a deeper attention because there was just less noise going on inside me. It was sunset. And I was stepping outside. And the evening birds were just all the Twitter. And they were certainly twittering for everyone. But they were definitely twittering for me. I felt that. I could see them up in the high branches. And I remember actually my intention for my experience with the Baniah last weekend was to kind of calm my anxiety and calm my nervous thoughts. And so to step outside and to just notice the world around me felt quite magical in contrast to the pervasive thinking and doing and--
figuring it out and stressed. And so to your point, Sasha, I really felt that magic. I wanted to ask you, and I see that you're pouring tea in this moment, so I will give you a moment to finish that. That's another part of the intention and the ritual is this tea that we're sharing here. Sasha, I wanted to ask you, you said that when Banya entered your life, it showed you, perhaps reminded you that magic was real. And I'd like to know a little bit more about that. When did Banya enter your life? And what was that experience like of knowing that magic was real? - No, it was, it was a few steps how it happened. And it was not so much Banya experiences the main childhood. I did it a little bit, but I cannot say that I was connected with the Banya as a child. - And in Moscow, everyone goes to Banya. - Is that accurate? - So if you have at least some money, first thing that you will build on your country house, it will be the Banya. So basically we have tens of thousands of the Banya's in Russia. It can be different types of experience. We can talk more about what the Banya is in Russia. It is whole big conversation, but yes, there are tens or hundreds of thousands of the Banya's in Russia, definitely. And everybody knows at least what is it. It were a few steps. One was when just I started to live with my friends in the quite big country house outside and we had a good, now I know that it's a very good Banya over there. And I just started to help to, like the homekeeper, Dima, do you remember Dima? Homekeeper to help to serve our friends to do the good Banya and it was kind of the first time when I took Vyneks Mahans. And big step was when we, I met Boris quite many years ago, but we became quite close friends basically in the Banya and we started to go to one quite with and a beautiful place in Moscow. And it was first steps of education, first steps about this flavor of this special culture of connection, of sincerity, of mastery, of some taste that there is something special over there. And at least a couple years, we were going in this Banya to mostly two times a week. Big step was born and meant, but I don't have any particular situation which understood that magic exists. I don't remember how it's happened. So it was less like, oh, like lights on moment. And more like an overtime. It was, it was, it was, it was through the treatments through the micro connection with the masters, through the sound ceremonies. And yes, just one day in the studio, wow, now I live in the absolutely magical world. And yeah, but I don't know how it's happened particular. There's one piece that I hear in what you're talking about with magic that really resonates for me, which is connection. You know, talking about your connection with the masters, talking about your connection with Boris, talking about this idea of community in the context of Abanya. Because I think that there's a lot of magic that is lost in our modern disconnection, in our relationship to screens, in our relationship to work, and the sort of atomized way in which we live. And I think that there is a magic that percolates in between consciousness, between people. You know, there's a sort of like, absolutely. It is, but it is, it is about the connection between the people, between the different people, but it's also about the connection with something big. It is about that you feel that it is, when the world is big, then you are much bigger, then you are connected with the, I don't like how it sounds that you're connected with the universe, but it is some kind of experience that you are absolutely know that it is not big, physical, simple world, where you are small, creation, who is going with the slacks on this planet and connected with the other through the biological patterns. You just know that at least for yourself, you open that there is something and you know it. And it's give you this peace and rest inside. I like that. What is Banya Magic for you, Boris? Well, there are several angles for me to answer this one. Yeah, Magic is the art of connection, technically. That's the right definition of this term. If there is ever a definition, then this is the definition. This is the art of connection. I've been working with plant medicines for quite a while already. And then I figured out that I'm going to be a apprentice. So it sort of took me perhaps nine years of just being in contact with plant medicine to understand. Actually, I need to be a apprentice. I need to go to a particular-- To a particular tradition. So basically, to take on this path and start learning, it's really learning, not just experimenting. And it was Russia. Back in Russia, it started to become sort of dangerous, you know? Because whatever is a legal, around the globe, in Russia, it's just dangerous. You better not do it. And I started thinking what can be done to allow people to have this experience without ingesting anything? So how exactly can we bring on the medicine of Iwaska and of other plant teachers into this world without creating a issues with legality and be issues with superficial misunderstanding of what the plant medicine is? And what I mean by that is, you perhaps know better than me, but you got a lot of ceremonies around the country here. And you see lots of people who come in joyfully, singing dance and listening to the chants and do it once a month and pay a particular sound to be there and do not change their lives whatsoever, because it's just lifestyle. And I mean, I'm not to judge others. It's their thing, but as for me, it's not the right application of the plant medicine. It's not the way plant medicine is actually medicine. So taking out the superficial psychedelic component of this, the tripping component out of this and bringing in the healing component of that, we have a chance to really connect to the knowledge of what the whole thing is about. And that was the second trigger for me. So by saying magic, I mean this. So it is learning of connection, learning of this particular type of wisdom and no bullshit learning. Russians are known to be sort of a bit more straight and rough here in many respects. So we are not really much into a political correctness. So it's important for plant medicine to be respected. And sometimes it means not ingesting anything. From my childhood, I was brought into the Bania and so on and everything. And really struck me to figure out two or three years out there that there is this huge culture of Bania and Russia. It's a full culture, it's an urban culture, but the wisdom is forgotten. What wisdom is forgotten in the urban culture of Bania? The wisdom is forgotten. So the wisdom which is forgotten is basically the teaching is forgotten. So it means that it took me so much time to find teachers who, and to find a space for teachers would come and teach how to operate. I mean, it's as striking as say you're eating for all of your life, whatever, simple stuff. Not knowing that there is culinary art and people that can be actually cooks and the cooks exist. And then you figure out that actually cooks exist and chefs exist. And then there is this art of culinary and then actually one can master this. It's this type of revelation. Yeah, I actually had an experience like that in visiting your Bania because as I mentioned, I'd been to the Archimedes Bania in San Francisco and the Kabuki Spag. I go to them from time to time. And my experience of that was very much sitting in the heat, wanting to have some health benefits from that and feeling good about that and then maybe a cold plunge too. So when I was coming here, I thought I was going to be gruelingly hot to just sit here and I was just going to sit in this hot steam and it was going to be really unpleasant. That wasn't my experience at all. And I know that you both chose not to have crazy high heat. But what was interesting is the way the steam was moving in the room. This felt very artistic and the way the branches would move the steam along my body or
the heavy wetness of the branches hitting me, palpitating along my torso. And then the timing of when do you step out and okay, breathe in the world and then it's time to go back in. It really did feel like art. And I'd never experienced steam as art before, which is part of why I wanted to be having this conversation. So I just wanted to share that and then kind of bring it back to you were talking about this tradition in Russia of the Banya and that there's wisdom that had been lost. And part of what I wanted to explore in this conversation today was the history of the Banya and the idea of steam across other cultures. In your work with the Stemology Institute, is that something that you talk about and teach the kind of history and wisdom and also other cultural traditions of steam and heat? Yeah, well, there is a theoretical component which needs to be understood about what work we are doing actually means and where it comes from. For sure, yes, we do teach that. And this is an excellent research topic for anthropologists and cultural. Just no joke. I know just a handful of papers on this topic. Actually, there will be many more if we have more subjective anthropology here, meaning people who experience start writing papers about that. And even what we know is quite remarkable. So the shortest version of this story doesn't have to be the shortest version. I'm very eager to learn about this. I started to get me the shortest. Start with the short if you want, but give me the poetry Boris because I know you got it. Oh, okay. Give me the poetry of it. So couple of hard facts. Okay. So first, couple of hard facts. Sweat and steam cultures exist all around the globe. Not just in North countries, not just in Russia or Finland or Northern America, where you would expect a sweat lodge, but basically all around the world. In both Americas, in Eurasia, India, in Ayurveda, you're going to find this. You're going to find this in China. You're going to find this in medieval Europe. And you're going to find it even in South America, wherever. Well, the reason is very simple. I mean, if you consider what happens with someone who is entering the steam room and you know this, him your own experience, you've got this rapid change of state and rapid change of state of your mind. So you enter into a dream like state and there are various modalities of this dream like state. And this happens by itself. Now consider what happens after the primitive stone age person figures out the fire. Okay, you've got fire. You are sitting in your cave. You've got fire. And this fire makes this cave hot. And the stones are hot. And you just pour water in the stones. And all of a sudden you've got the steam room. You don't even need to have the language at that very moment. And this is very important as well. It seems that the tradition we are tapping into is the pre-semantic tradition. This tradition because like we muster the fire for one million years. We muster the language for 100,000 years if Komsky is right and like other linguists. So we've got nine tenths of our knowledge of the steam before the onset of the language. Now, which means that a very different type of mind was activated around that time. And this might as quite active in the majority of mystical traditions and studies. If you do Chikong, you are tapping into this imagery, into this mind which operates on a non-semantic level. If you do yoga, you do it the same. And then basically it's very natural, actually, we are human beings. Most of the time we are in contact with this very particular mind, not the semantic mind. And what he has in this steam room, from your experience of calming down your thoughts, this blubbering monkey comes down because our ration might just cannot sustain the conditions. Just by the temperatures going up and it is just not compatible with the blubbering mind. So your internal dialogue is sort of switched off. And what happens is you are coming to this more natural state of direct observation of your emotions, your of this dream-like process. So it becomes more of a process in a state. Now this was the property which was used in all different cultures. So we are both from Russia, so we are in contact with Russian and Baltic culture of using a very particular type of steam, using branches, using the trees we have here, which is oak tree and birch and linden and others. But what we see a lot, and this comes from Russian tradition as well, but not just from Russian tradition, is using the voice. Yeah, I remember you singing in the steam. I loved your singing. Yeah, I was chanting in Shippeebo. So Shippeebo. Oh yeah, it sounded like Shippeebo like the Shippeebo. It did sound like that. And it's not because Shippeebo used steam room. They don't have steam rooms of this kind. They have different type of steam rooms, smaller ones. Just they have herbal steam bars. That's a different concept. But voice is carrying the energy in the steam room for healing purposes, as much as hand as carrying, using the branches energy in physical form as the steam. And there is a lot of directed energy work in the context of steam room. So we use voice. And voice is used in the majority of steam traditions all around. And I didn't know that. Smed Lodge in Lakota tradition, NEP in Northern American traditions. They all have a great use of voice. I mean, they use voice. They use particular instances or smells. And they use heat and they use steam. Yeah. And for Chinese, for example, again, it's just like creating some images for those who are listening. For Chinese steam, it's a very particular type of cheese. So if you. She is the energy in the Chinese medical system. Yeah. Yeah. It's same as. Yeah. It's same as. It's like one of the energies, but it's like the body's main energy. I would say cheese is the same concept as prana in yoga, in the Hindustani yoga. But cheese is very interesting in that respect, specifically, because there are various qualities of cheese. You can range from very condensed cheese, which is nebulous, steam-like, vapor-like. All the way to young cheese, which is completely bright and luminous and non-material at all. But there is this progression of cheese in Chinese explanation in Chinese cosmology and medicine. This progression of cheese, meaning that it's basically the same energy, which is ranging from very material to very immaterial. Now we are tapping directly into something which can be observed. So steam is exactly the accessible energy. Now this is important because it's really easy to get illusioned in energetic work and energetic learning. Yeah. Because you can really build lots of images in your head. A lot of confirmation bias and personal mythology that comes into that. And once you are working with steam, you are dealing with this energy. This energy for sure is very observable and you can't really falsify it. It's validated physically. So you either heat the person enough or you overheat or you do not heat enough and you know for sure it's observable. Someone else can as well say, "Okay, this is the case or not." And yet it is energy. And yet it is energy. It goes into the thinnest and most subtlest types of prana or cheese. The same thing. Now this was about the reason why historically in many traditions, about using the same manner. I mean if you observe like a village in Russia, again a different image here, if you observe a village in Russia, there is no priest, there is no hospital, but there is definitely a steam room. Because this is the only place which is clean enough and hot enough and humid enough for a woman to give birth. This is the place to get healed. This is the place to apply whatever medicine. In all folk tales in Russia you would have an old witch which would help the protagonist by first making a sleep room for him. It's the most important part of the lifestyle of a Slavic tribe, having a healer who would work from a steam room, using the steam room. And as well it was the most feared part of the village. I mean. Is it the most feared part?
- Or you? - Why was the steam room feared? - I mean, 'cause it's a portal. - I actually read about that in some Slavic mythology, there's an idea that each baña is inhabited by a bathhouse spirit. - Oh, it's true, yeah. - Is that something that's called the Bannik? Am I right in that? The Bannik spirit? - Yeah, and the Russian Idol is a yes. - Yeah, and the Bannik sits near the oven in the dark and can either sort of bless you with nice caresses or strike you with their claws. Am I accurate in my Slavic mythology? - Yeah, well, not just Slavic, I think, in Karela and Mytholge, is the same and Finnish mythology the same, yeah. - A lot of mythopoetic themes represent things that are actually relevant to our modern lives. So I don't imagine that you believe that there is a small, impish creature behind the stove, but is there a role for the Bannik in the spiritual aspect of the steam for you? - I read a lot about when I heard and I read, and it is the special how they draw on him and where does he live? And that, for example, that in the tradition, you cannot go in the Bannia after sunset or after dark or after 9 pm, because it's the time when Bannik is having his own steam and if you will go at night, he will do some super bad things with you. And he's not so good guy, basically. So in my own mind, I don't have this personality who is over here, but definitely, I'm in dialogue with each Bannia where, in which what I'm doing, and the way how you clean it, the way how you treat it, the way how you ask it to help, the way how you feel that it is with you or against you. So definitely you are building some kind of connection and it's some kind of connection, it can be, it's almost physical connection, you can feel it, so easily the quality of this connection, how is it right now? And it's definitely something to build and something that the most profound part of the experience is the quality of this connection because I think this is the main influencer, the Bannia is the main influencer on what's happening, not me, not others, they master not the stove, it is this something. And in my head, it is not special guy, but it is connection with something definitely, yes. - I think this is a fair question about the imp, and whether it has any relevance for the contemporary urban, the well, because the natural answer will be, well, why would it have any relevance whatsoever? This is strange, I mean, why would we need that? I mean, we need, you're a mediator, if we need psychedelic therapy, we need the contemporary science, even contemporary spirituality, why would we need all the imps and everything? Well, for me as practitioner, it is important to be very careful about the way I perceive things. And let's call it shamanic lens, although I would prefer not to use the word shamanic, but it would take me ages to explain what I mean without using this word. So let's take the shamanic lens on perception. And then shamanic lens means that you opt to perceive the reality, as a something living, be something which is able to communicate in various fashions, see the boundaries not being the same as you observe as your naked eye, so the boundaries might be different. Now, once you step into having this lens, and once you are activated with this dream-like trans, which is opened up by the steam in the steam room, the notion of imp or the notion of banic is basically a symbolic reminder of the existence of spiritual world, okay? And it helps detectically, methodologically it helps to be in contact with that. So I start pouring water on the stone here, for example, because this is basically metaphorically to praise the Ambanias spirit, I chant the Banias spirit, not meaning that I am out of my mind and I see Banias spirit all around in my normal life, but the notion is very different, the notion is, I am just confirming that I have checked my lens of seeing, of operating in this dream-like state. And it is basically just a checkbox, like checkbox trucks, I'm there, so I'm active, I can perceive. And it's not just the knowledge within the serum, it happens to a good doctor, it happens to a good post-apotic doctor, the ability to perceive things, which are sort of a little bit beyond what you would traditionally perceive your naked eye or a naked hand. So this is the reason why Banias is important. And it's well-to-warren. Why is it important not to have a steam room too late in the night, because there are natural rhythms, and you have to accept that, 'cause you don't want to have steam room late, late late in the night, because it basically, it can be just harmful. And natural rhythms are way more important in such a state than in normal life, so to say, 'cause here you're way more vulnerable. All this can impact you way more dramatically. So it's sort of safe through rules, safety guidance. We just pack them through this little stories, and do the stales and everything, which is passed through in generations, should be deciphered into understanding why it actually means what it means. - That's often the role of the mythopoetic too, is to transmit these lessons that ultimately give us a deeper understanding because, in part, they're interpretable. So we can work them into modern contacts, because they're carrying the messages of the past. - True. - This makes me kind of consider this idea of lineage, and the way things are passed on. And Christopher Breedlove, our mutual friend, who brought me here, had a couple of questions that he wanted to ask you, and I think this is a good time to ask a question from him, which is in line with what you're speaking about right now. What he asked is, who do they draw their inspiration from, and how do they track the lineage of their practice? - Sasha, I guess this one is for you. - There are also a few ways how we can look at that. One is, let's say, more traditional. It is our teachers and it is the people who put their lives to investigate, to develop, to know more about more traditional way of Russian steam in Banya Kalkia, from the point of view of the steam masters, from the point of view of the builders, architectures, stove makers, anthropologists, and all the people who went deeply in the Russian lineage. And as I said, there are few, like a branches, because Banya is about the steam masters, and there are many people, not many people, but there are some people who go and deeply in this, and Banya is about just how to create this space. It is big lineage and knowledge about, not how to be steam masters, about how to create, transformational and the life space, which is far from what you can find in the fitness of wellness where you experience it, it can still, can be cool, it can be still that you feel some more openness over there, but it is far from the idea of how to build this portal, as Boris said. And the thought how we can look at that, and I think Boris is closer to that, then I am, it is the common idea of the steam around the world, as a sweat lodge, as other traditions, as the people who found the knowledge of the teaching and the development which can happen in this outer state, which is in the steam. - I would add to that, I love what you're saying. So in terms of teachers, we are not really descendants of one particular tradition, very important to understand. I mean, for the listeners, we are sitting in a felt dome, which is basically based on the geodome, which is the invention of Buckminster Fuller, okay? So if ever, we are descendants of Buckminster Fuller. And that's important, 'cause, as for me, I'm drawing my inspiration from the future and from the present rather than from the past. - I love that. - And my vision is that communal healing is possible and is needed, and it is a process which needs to be well understood, because if you take a contemporary community,
The only issue it might have is it is done from the head and from the idea. Not taking into account that communication is a multi-level process which needs to have its own healing inside of that. And we are doing the communal healing. Now this is the thing. So the thing is what we are building is the process for a modern community to be able to multi-level heal. And communicate. And that's why sincerity is important. You can't really build a modern community without having this tool of creating sincerity. Because you can't really fake things in this world. You can't really fake many things. If you start faking things in this world, you've got whatever. You've got a modern politics. You've got the modern capitalist structures, whatever you've got. But for a modern community, you need to have sincerity. A sincerity is something to be produced and for that reason one needs to healing. The simplest is that. That's the tool we're doing. Now this is the inspiration. And then coming back to the question about the teachers, again, really, Buckminster Fuller is the teacher. And as well, our teachers who keep bringing this wisdom on how to treat people, how to treat their bodies, how to treat their souls, how to treat their minds, the teachers from different lineages, like from Native American lineages. All the knowledge we have absorbed, it all flows into this space. So, if anything, what we are doing is the platform for this knowledge to come. And I'm not really putting too much on my shoulders really. It's not like I'm bringing in the teaching. It's not, if you are creating this space well enough, they will come. Very important that having this focus of attention and intention as space, which is something living. And again, hello to Buckminster Fuller. We are literally in a spaceship in broader sense and in a smaller sense as well. This is a little spaceship here. Because it real deals with the internal space. It is a portal, it deals with this perception of space. And that's the biggest knowledge. We are assembling and conveying and working with. The connection to the space and time are the two. At the end of the day, these are the two biggest teachings one has to master how to connect with space and time. So that's what we are doing here. Well, you spoke about multi-leveled healing. Yes. I think this is a great time to touch on a little bit of the medical benefits of the steam. We've talked a lot about this as a spiritual space, as a portal, as a space for healing and flushing out. I want to talk a little bit more about your knowledge of some of the scientific benefits, the detoxification, inflammation, the cardiac effects of the steam. I'd like to talk a bit about that and save a little bit of special time to talk about mental health as well. But before talking about mental health, let's talk a little bit about the health benefits of the steam. It's well researched on many layers, not on all though. Like I would say that the body effects of steam room and basically of using heat, beaten for red heat or sound heat, but specifically steam, they're quite well researched. I mean, we know there are several studies. I mean, Japanese have studied a lot. And you know, it's connected to the studies of how hot water or water in general is affecting the body. And Japanese are good at this because they've got lots of knowledge about thermal hot springs. And this used to be a major thing in physiotherapy for quite some time. Well, long story short, body reacts to heating and specifically to the steam in a number of ways. One is our temperature is increasing. It's increased by a couple of degrees outside more than inside, but it starts as sort of inflammation process, sort of artificial inflammation process, the artificial fever in a sense. And then this artificial fever is just organically triggering the same immune boost, which is being triggered by a fever in response to an actual infection. So this is the number one action, so to say, to a whole body action. There are several side effects which are contributing to this or happening because of that. A lot stream is activated way more because heat needs to be circulated faster. So heartbeat is increasing. A lot of circulation is happening faster and faster and faster. This lymph is drained in a way faster both through the sweat outside and sweating is very important because sweating is basically what triggers the whole body to cleanse. Yeah, so there are generally health effects which are related to the body and connected to the heat. There are some other effects which are very much more subtle and they either depend on what is happening in this team room, say what kind of process going on or they are connected to the conditions of this team room. So just to be clear, you're saying that there are different health benefits depending on just the property of the heat versus what's physically happening within the space. So there are two sets of factors which are then affecting this subtler effects, subtler health benefits, conditions within the steam room and the process. Talking about conditions. So particular qualities of steam are triggering different responses. Some types of steam would trigger rapid sweating, some other types of steam would trigger not so much of sweating but more building up the heat. Still some others would be very good for cleansing or for scrubbing and this is what actually defines what kind of steam room you're having. Say a hamam is again a steam room. That's the Turkish. That's the Turkish or whatever, North and African. Hamam is very important for hot and human environments. If you have a country which is very hot, the issue would be skin is getting lots of inflammation because of the earth and infections and all that. So you need to scrub and scrub, you need super human environment, not so hot. But for Nordic countries the problem is different because the skin pores are closed normally. The majority of illnesses are having this nature of cold. If you take a heavy or Tibetan perspective, you know like the right diseases which are connected to cold and the others which are connected to high. So for Nordic countries, for Nordic cultures, majority of diseases are connected to the nature of cold. So like cold, for example or whatever. So there you need more heat. You there you need more different types of steam as well. If you do things well enough engineering wise, you can create a perfect condition or perfect set of conditions. But you have to carefully manage it. This is a here, it's a big mastery. We are doing this a lot and engineering is a key thing in terms of what you're doing. Let me switch a little bit to the reasons why it is like that. If you have proper conditions, that was your experience here. If you have proper conditions of right steam, right schedule of changing the humidity and temperature and right application of steam. You're by the gets into a very particular mode, which is your condition before you were born in the once the kids in the mothers womb. It's around the kid is surrounded by basically what you are surrounded with in a steam room. So well effectively this is a womb. And for many many many traditions, this was perceived as a womb. In Temascale, in the Mexico or wherever, that's the imagery. But what a drive actually. So your body reacts to that in a very particular manner. Your breathing, because in the lamp, the child is not breathing. Everything is connected through the skin and through the umbilical cord. Well, there is no umbilical cord, but there is still the skin contact with the environment. So your skin starts to operate in a very different fashion. So there we go, ready into the realm of psychology and mental, because that's where your mind and your emotions operate in a different way as well. So the experience of being in a womb is calming psychologically because you're accustomed to that. But as well as it is so it's not just calming. It's getting you in the state which has an unlimited potential. Explain that. Getting in a state of unlimited potential. Yeah, well, if you observe your emotional state within a steam room, you're going to figure out that the type of emotions you are experiencing are not really the emotions of the everyday life. They are just different. They have different, different notion to that. Why it happens like that is because you're basically tracking them back into their source. So a good steam room ceremony or a good steam room treatment can lead to a very
a strong, cutarctic process, now, as well as in plant therapy. Why it happens like that? Because in this particular mode of existence, like in this dream-like state, if you take the function of the mind, your emotions sort of operate in a non-obscured way, because you don't have the interpretation layer on top of that. You just, your mind just doesn't cope with that. So your emotional process is way faster, and as well, it can be treated and guided way faster. So it's like psychotherapy on steroids in a sense, like because you're tapping into the basic emotional patterns, and this is the ability to alter them, and from working them. This way I'm saying it's the state of high potentiality, because the ability to alter the patterns is very high here. The same is with the body, because in the body, we do a lot of work in this body here, operating basically using the principles of Chinese meridian therapy or moxibussian, for example, if you know moxibussian. - I don't know moxibussian. I know meridian theory in Chinese medicine, but. - Okay, so moxibussian is, it was Chinese anti-baton therapy using moxamoxa, it's basically a stick, either made of coal or charcoal, or made of particular herbs, dried herbs. And then it's heated up, and then it's quite hot, and then it's put close to the body, but not really burning. And it produces lots of heat, and it's typically heating up a particular spot in the body. It's very efficient, because it goes, like, point by point, it's very efficient if applied carefully to treat lots of things, including depression, for example, like lots of things. That's one of the biggest and one of the most effective types of Tibetan Chinese traditional medicine. We've got conditions here to do exactly the same, but we don't have the restriction of this little, little tool, so we've got the whole thing. We've got the ability to direct steam from whatever direction. So imagine you've got all of a sudden, you've got an opportunity to work on all points of the body as in using needles or using moxam, but you have no restriction of time, so you can do it all over that simultaneously. It increases the speed of reaction, and this is what is one of the biggest characteristics of treatment effect on both the body and the motions and mind. So this is what shapes this experience so much. So I'm talking about process now. Engineering wise, you need to have the right conditions to create this womb, or to create a different condition if it is needed. So when engineering is done right on the physical level, what happens is that you are breathing with the proper air, you sweat with the proper sweat, which is a lot of these toxins inside. And the different sweat. Like the toxicifying sweat, because it can be different types of sweat, even sometimes you know it is like a sticky sweat, and you just feel that all of this dirt is going inside. And sometimes just like a water, when you're trying to become more cold, and then it is not so the toxicifying sweat. And when the proper engineering is done, this physical environment is done is good, and then all of this proper process happens. But to come to the mental health and to come to this, what Boris said about how you feel the life through the skin, and to come to this, what we talked about, inspiration about this better world, when the engineer is done properly. And when you just not how you sit in the sauna, in the bunion, the steam room, because oh, I know that there are these types of benefits, okay, I will sit because I will sweat, and it will become more healthy. When you lie down over here, and with a steam master, or even without, with the proper engineering, with the proper bunion, with the proper temperature, with the proper quality of steam, with the proper aromatherapy, you are going to this dream like a dream like state, where going when your thoughts become, like not so aggressive, and there comes, not so often, you go into the state of rest, and this state of this rest, the state of this, when you are embraced, the state, then you are as comfortable as it's you, you cannot even, was not able to imagine that this comfort is existing this world, that you are so, it is warm and it's nice, it is humid, it's like, it's physically like the woman, in some way. And over there, you can, like remember what the health is, and this is the big health benefit. And on the top of that, there's going all this proper sweat, proper breath, and proper micro-circulation, all of that. So yeah, for the mental health, I love this idea of safety. That's a big thing for me in my anxiety is rooted in a childhood experience of unsafety, and a big part of my process, and as we were discussing, you know, this is pre-semantic, this is a somatic embodied, traumatic experience of unsafety for my childhood. And I think, you know, we all have some version of that, and no matter how nourished or nurtured we were, there are aspects of the life, perhaps even the birth experience itself, that carries a certain kind of embodied trauma. And so what I'm hearing from you is that this creation of the womb, when the technology is precise, and these womb-like conditions are created where the sweat is the precise right kind, and the convection of the steam moving through the space is correct, that this creates a kind of safety, and the flying state is one of a deep rest that would be otherwise potentially unimaginable. I deeply believe that we was loved and embraced when we was in the mother's womb, and somewhere we have this kind of experience. We remember that it was over there, it was in our other life, it was when we were in our mother, we were in the mother's womb, and we were in the mother's womb, and we were in the mother's womb, and sometimes we reach in this, sometimes it's not through the hour, say if it's trying to find the money, it's trying to find the friends trying to be, I don't know, famous, but doing the going, the achieving, the training, whatever, but it is because we have this pattern ahead, and we remember that we just want to be loved, we just want to come back home, and we know it's not as a deal, we know it as a experience, but it is somewhat deep, and I believe that one of the big things that we are reaching over here, as we remember, that's it, that's what I, it can be, it is, it exists, I have it, I can, okay, I cannot be over there forever, maybe I don't want to, but I have the support of this experience, I can be loved basically, and this experience that I can be loved, from the not from somebody, from maybe from this whole world, but whatever it is, and this is rare, activating this pattern in some way, and yeah, it was a big part that happened with me, and I know that it is, I know that it is, it's true for many, many other people. Relating to this, I would say, I mean, you're matching everything correctly, because the experience of the Steam Room, if that's properly, if it's properly and conducted properly, which is two big parts of the business, and therefore education, because the Steam Room Experience allows to tap directly into this pre-born condition, and because of this particular type of therapeutic state, which sort of peels off all of the layers, on top of this pre-born condition, and why it happens, because most of our traumas, these ecological traumas, or somatic traumas, are embodied in some way or other on our body, on our body, on our body. Every time we were hit physically, we still have this somewhere in the body, we can still. Your body keeps the score. Yeah, yeah. Now, what happens in the Steam Room, your body sort of starts exfoliating from this very core, the unobstructed, the core is the pre-born condition. Now, as practitioners, what we are doing, is we are just working with this memory on the body. This is basically one of the biggest things on educating how to work with branches, how exactly to apply branches in the fashion, which are this loving hands, mother's hands, which are able to clean off this thing. So we use a lot of various, like, modelluses of cleaning, all the way from somatic cleaning, all the way to mental cleaning, saying, working with memories, chanting to the memories, for example. That's why it's so much connected to the traditional work which is done in Plant Medicine, wrote in Iwaska, wrote, because there it is exactly the same process.
but we are operating both with the body technically and with the voice and then with the mind so like on both hands Basically working on the on on top of the trans which is naturally covering everybody including ourselves So this ability to work on the layers and to get to this pre-born condition is Exactly what makes this this healing potential more or less of the same power of Caterpée in general sense because we can tap to every single moment of the worldly life and there are lots of anecdotal experiences Because people get easily into the experience of all I was two years old or all I was just just born or all I was suffocating when I was born So the people get easily into this retrospective trauma or Issue which shapes whatever happens later So this is what makes it so powerful On the other end there is a collective component of the treatment as well and collective component to the healing process This is why we are sitting not in a place which is built for one Therapist and one client, but we are sitting in a place which is built for a community even a small community for 10 people Why because lots of traumas are affecting not one particular individual but basically a community as a whole Or a society as a whole this reminds me of the I wasca ceremony in the sense that we're all They're doing our work together and if I do my work then the person sitting next to me works that I'm grieving for everyone in that circle Well, I I take here a more radical community in approach Not that it's just it's not just me doing my work of helping you doing you doing your work is there is Something which is more than just you or just me there is a bigger being Which might be ill might be sick might be healthy It's up to us together to work to the benefit of this larger being which is the community and is that the human species? Or is that the community that's present in the ceremony as a being that comes together just for that ceremony or as much as you're trained to Observe this community if you are trained enough to observe the community of two people in a relationship Like whatever the relationship is in a couple then it's good enough is It's way better than not being able to observe this within two people couple But if you can go beyond and go into something bigger or even bigger or even bigger or even to the species level or even to the living beings Level then you're okay fine now It means you've got some mastery and understanding how to how to how to grow this community in Knowledge inside of yourself but the training of understanding how the relationship operates and specifically training how to How to work with the traumas which happen? Oh, this is on the communitarian level not just on the middle level is super important and it happens as well in the steam room say the emotions like shame Or guilt which are quite social in their manifestation Not just in the middle so They are treated very profoundly in the steam room So because while operating the shame is very important understanding understanding the boundaries understanding what the boundaries are Observing the boundaries of others Understanding the health away to work with this bone and has meant most of the time people are enclosed in the steam room as well Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's the thing like how to approach that how to approach nudity in healthy way and This is also say that the healing aspect is twofold is both individual and communitarian and this communitarian Healing aspect is something which is even less understood because People tend to think about loneliness for example being single person issue and this that's easy I understand why I mean I'm sitting here in more or less in the realistic country Which is based shaved by this in the realistic spirit therefore every mental illness is perceived being and and in the widows Mental illness, but in fact that is not It is known that loneliness is very much connected to the type of community we are talking about So it's a very very much social disease now it affects the community rather than a person Now people are parts of their communities therefore they're affected But it cannot be healed on any little level For that one needs to know the communication now to heal the communication is a very particular skill and the issue in the contemporary culture which we are trying to overcome is this very particular input is to showcase that treating individuals and treating relationships and treating societies is One big thing. It's not three different things It's not like here is the medicine for in the wills and here is the whatever coaching for corporations and here is God knows what for for the societies if there is anything we should be doing for them and It's like disconnected through three different types of knowledge like three different degrees What we are saying it's not It's multilayered But it's part of the bigger whole and and therefore we do communal steam it's important because again, it's a part type of practice which shows how to do it In reading about the Banya one of the benefits of the Banya historically was that it was a space for many different social classes Yeah, and the idea of a healing womb that's available for community and connectedness and you know, you're a plant medicine guy I'm a plant medicine guy one of the big things that we experience in plant medicine is the interconnectedness of all things and all beings And that's enormously healing there's a plague of deaths of despair so called in the west where people are dying of suicide or drug overdose or alcoholism And these are these are deaths of disconnection lack of community and something that I've learned in community is that Your service to the community is a huge part of your own healing, you know So there are people are coming into the steam and if they're learning to do these beautiful sweeping motions with the branches and get them heavy with water And then slap them down on the chest in a way that is love and connection and healing that's their own growth Absolutely, and their own it is their own It is their own way of investigating their dreams and motivations and their answers and their obstacles After the first brewing man we understood actually immediately we understood the after the first process that there is a unique experience of sincerity and openness which happens to people there they started to talk with us about that And it's very needed very much needed very much in demand And again it was emerging we didn't really program it just Start to happen so inspiring that we decided we need to start the education program And it started dissipating into not only people but places as well so it dissipated into fly ranch near the near black rock desert it dissipated into Russia to into several other festivals so it started to look like a catapult of a new culture sort of restarted through the brewing man And my biggest philosophical thought on that is that brewing man is definitely capable of being cradle of cultures and one needs to know how to work with that because And then if you figure out this thing how to How to launch a culture through brewing man Then we perhaps make the bigger contribution beyond the culture of steam itself Hmm, I love that so the fact that you're using burning man to launch this culture of steam Means that you're not just learning about and sharing the technology of steam But you're learning about and sharing the technology of culture and I would say also the technology of community That's correct that's correct and that's great and that's a big thing because it goes again It goes beyond the notion of leadership And it goes beyond the notion of how to make something non commercial and so on and so far It has this energy component in it. It has this inspiration component in it because what brewing man does In between other things, but what brewing man does is it acts as a magnifying glass for inspiration And it's sort of it's sort of enhances this multiple And again, we wish to be able to become an example of how to How to operate through this into the default world Hmm, I love that Before we leave each other on this wonderful afternoon Where can people find you and connect with you? How can people perhaps Learn from the Stemology Institute? Where can our listeners connect with you? So the easiest ways are look us up on Facebook which is Boris Rybov or Alexander Byron There is the there's an email address We can share which is
[email protected] And if if people are in the Bay Area, could they use that email to request to come and experience the bonja? Yeah, they could do all of that and there is as well a number of Private Facebook groups we're going to invite people whenever they contact us We're gonna let them know. Yeah, so so I'd say the the main if you're listening right now You want to get in touch you want to come experience this bonja in northern California? You want to meet the
these guys, then that email, which will be in the show notes. And we'll say that email one more time, which is. It's
[email protected]. Great. And that'll be in the show notes. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING] Thank you for joining us for Life is a Festival. If you like the show, you can support it by sharing it with your friends, following it on Spotify, or reviewing it on iTunes. If you'd like to get more involved, you can join our Facebook group. Life is a Festival where we talk about the show, and you can suggest new guests. If you really liked the show and maybe want a little bit more, visit my digital tip jar at patreon/lifeisafestival.com. Whatever you do, I hope today's podcast helped you make your life just a little bit more like a festival. And I'll see you on the dance floor.
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