#88: What Every Woman Needs to Know About Desire, Boundaries & Pleasure

What's up welcome back to another episode of the libido fairy podcast in this episode. It is actually an episode where I am being interviewed. So this is a podcast from the Fluently Forward podcast that I did recently and we are going to unpack all of the real reasons why women struggle with low desire in relationships from the stress connection to the hidden role that resentment plays in killing your turn on. I'm going to break it all down. It's like why you're avoiding affection, how blue balls propaganda messed with our boundaries, what response or desire really is, using a sexual menu, bridging activities, libido myths and so much more. So I hope that you enjoy the episode. Here we go. Hello, hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Fluently Forward. Today we are having on Hannah the libido fairy and you cover content. You make incredible content online that I have just been pouring over these past couple of months all about women with low libido. But I also feel like what you do is kind of talk about like the psychology of women interacting with sex and people pleasing and attachment styles and how all of this kind of manifests in the bedroom. So welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you on. Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm not that cool. I just really appreciate the shout out. So yeah. Thanks for having me. I almost hear this all the time, but I had seen one of your reels come across. I think, I don't know, Instagram or TikTok or something like that. And the concepts that you talk about are something that I feel like a not enough people talk about, but be because I have no boundaries. I talk about everything with my friends, me and almost every single growing friends with we experience a lot of what you've talked about. Like the idea of not wanting to maybe initiate affection with your partner because you're afraid it will lead to something more and you're going to have to follow through or not having desire or feeling like sex is a chore and then feeling ashamed and guilty that you think it's a chore and all of that. So it seems like your journey is kind of similar to a lot of ours. How did you get started with the libido fairy and like making all of this content? Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head in that I went through a very similar journey to that. I backing up a lot of my initial sexual experiences were really negative. My first relationship was very abusive and then I after getting out of that relationship learned that sex was this trading chip that I could use to exchange for security and validation and approval and I could use my body to get people to like me and it never even occurred to me that it could be something that was for my pleasure or something I could enjoy. It was always something to endure and to trade and the further I got into relationships the way that that manifested was I would have all of this desire at the beginning of the relationship because I was very motivated to get this person to like me and want me and get them into the relationship with me and then a few months would go by and I would get all of those initial desire to met for security and validation and approval and then sex. I didn't need it anymore. I got the thing I wanted. So there was no impetus, no desire, no need for me to continue to exchange this thing because I got what I wanted from the end of the bargain. I didn't obviously, I wasn't consciously aware that I was doing that. I'm saying this in retrospect that that was what I was doing. Now I looking back, I realized that in the moment it was really confusing and really filled with a lot of attention and shame and confusion because inevitably my thoughts would go to, oh well, I'm not attracted to this person anymore. The relationship must not be good. I must be with the wrong person and what's wrong with me and why can't I just sustain that excitement that I had at the beginning. And so that happened a few times in a relationship and then I got to a place where I was in a relationship with someone who had a great relationship with. It was the healthiest relationship ever. We had a lot of great communication. We were really good friends and he had asked my parents if he could marry me and we were getting to that place in the relationship but we weren't having sex. We were in arguments about it. I felt a lot of shame, a lot of avoidance. I would try to lay in bed at night very still so that he wouldn't get the idea that I was awake and interested in sex and I would do pick fights to avoid having sex and all sorts of ways to make excuses so they didn't have to do this thing that I didn't want to do and then I would only ever do it out of guilt because it had been so long and then I would just fake it to get it over with faster and it was a very vicious loop. I was in that relationship and then we got to a point where I was like, okay, we're potentially going to get married. We need to really figure this out and work on this and we tried all of the things that most people recommend that you try which are I went and got my hormones tested and mind you, I'm 27 years old at that point getting my hormones tested. There's nothing wrong with my hormones, that were like back a root and like all the supplements that they suggest. Yeah, tried all the supplements, tried the like female Viagra, tried the like all sorts of lingerie and sex toys and went to pole dancing classes and tried wearing more dresses and like it was just all this all this stuff and eventually in that relationship we got to a point where we decided that we were going to open our relationship because the thought was, okay, well, maybe this will take the pressure off of me to provide this for you, you'll get your needs met, maybe that new energy, maybe me having sex with someone new will spark some excitement or newness in the relationship and it was a terrible experience and just completely destroyed the, what was remaining of the relationship at that point and that very catastrophic ending really prompted me to be like, I need to figure this out. I need to understand why this keeps happening, what is wrong with me, like what is going on with libido and so I really spent the next two and a half years fully immersing myself in the world of sex, like experimenting with a whole bunch of different types of relationship styles, exploring all of my fringe fantasies, like exploring with different like sex parties and play parties and shabari artists and dominatrixes and kink and then also like mentoring with a bunch of different sex experts and getting certified in somatic therapy twice. I was like, this is the thing that I need to figure out here and while I did that I shared a lot of that journey online and after a couple of years of, finally getting to a place where I understood what was going on here, I was like, oh, okay, like let me start to actually teach this to people and share this with people because I think the things that I learned could be really helpful and that's when I created the libido fairy account, which was about almost two years ago now. Wow. Well, I'm so glad you did because, you know, it's a topic that not a lot of people willingly talk about. But once again, like it's just so common and everything that you were saying about sex being something that you either have to like endure or like uses a bartering chip. I've noticed that too where like, you know, the honeymoon phase, I wonder how much of that is really just women being like, oh my god, like, you know, frontload it with sex. And then I've also noticed that I will initiate sex if either A, I did something wrong and like, oh no, like I need to, you know, get back on good graces or B, if I've been sick and my partner's been taking care of me. So it's almost like then I feel like I need to say thank you with sex and I just feel like the way that women use sex, you know, it's not that we use it, but it's like we've kind of been conditioned to act about sex in this way. And what you said too, it's always this overarching idea of what's wrong with me. Like why am I like what's deficient with me? How do I fix this? And it's interesting because I've done all of the work as well, right? Like lingerie, like reading a rotica, macaroon supplements. But I think a big part of that, that, that you touch on is that it's very mental and it's this idea of like, what do I truly want? And it's, I'm expressing, you know, a low libido, but also I'm not doing what I want with hobbies. I'm not doing, I'm not eating what I want, I'm eating what I should be eating. And it's kind of like this facet of our life that touches on everything. And I read that book, as I'm sure you did to come as you are, which everyone says is like, you know, the Bible for, you know, women's libido. And it was really interesting because I was listening to this podcast from the woman. I think her name is Emily Nesinki or something. She said that there was a chapter on the book all about stress and that when she went on a book tour, every woman was like that chapter on stress was so impactful because I think for a lot of women, you just view sex as like a chore or something to do. It stresses you out to even think about having to like check it off the list and then you're good for three days because you got it done. So what do you think about that mentality and how do you kind of find ways to get out of that type of thinking when it comes to sex? Yeah, I love Emily Nesinki's work and her book really influenced me at the beginning of my journey as well, which is so unbelievably helpful. I think that frame of sex is something that I have to do. It exactly creates the pressure, creates the stress, which is like the absolute enemy of what you want to create in a sexual space that like, you know, if the language is like, oh, I have to go get front row, I have to go see Taylor Swift, front row seats. I wouldn't want to do it because it's something I have to do, but it's, you know, a lot of it is language. Yeah. 100%. The thing that's underneath it is what we touched on a couple times, which is partially conditioning, which is that women are conditioned to believe that sex is something that happens to us. And it's something that we exchange for whatever we want in return from that. And the way to shift that is fundamentally to understand that sex can be something that is for you to experience because it's fun and it's pleasurable. And there are other rewards that you could get from it beyond just the like soothing a fight or exchanging security or get a validation from your partner. There's so many more potential rewards, and so the behavior shifts that lead up to that are first learning what it is that you do like in sex and exploring that. Well, even before that deciding, deciding, oh, I want to have sex in a way that's going to work for me because in human behavior, we are incentivized to do things that we are rewarded by and being incentivized to do things that we are punished by, and sex is a chore. It's punishment. We are being, it's a punishing experience. If sex is something that feels fun and exciting and pleasurable and enjoyable, we're incentivized to continue to do that thing and push that button. So it's a decision to be like, okay, up to this point, sex has been something that is a punishing experience for me either because I'm disconnected from my body or I'm doing it just to please my partner, or it just is not a pleasurable experience for me. So it's been punishing. I'm going to decide, make a shift internally that I want to reclaim sex as something that can be for me instead of something that is for them or something that happens to me. And the download on one of your posts kind of about that, I think, and it is very similar to, I also follow a lot of accounts for like if you have ADHD, like hacks for that. And they were saying to think about things in a reward center. So if you're stuck in bed and you don't want to start your day, rather than saying I need to brush my teeth, I should. I'm such a piece of shit for not brushing my teeth. You should instead think, I love how clean and minty fresh my teeth feel so sparkly and then that encourages you to do it. So I think you had some post and I was talking with my partner about it, like, what are the five reasons why you like having sex the most? And he was like, you know, I like feeling connected, blah, blah. My reasons were all messed up. I was like, I like having an orgasm. I like making you happy like I like, you know, blah, blah, blah, but even thinking about it in that sense. So then that way, I don't know, instead of, I guess having sex because you have to, it's more of like, oh, I'd love to feel connected right now. I like feeling sexy. Let me do it for these reasons. Is that kind of the thinking 100 percent? It's understanding what would motivate you to choose to have sex over all of the other things that you do in your life that are rewarding to you. So like, if you like reading smart novels or you like cooking or you like eating a delicious meal or you like writing your bicycle, all of those things are really inherently pleasurable and rewarding to you. And so you don't have to ever force yourself to do those things. You alluded to like sitting front row to Taylor Swift Concert, same thing. It's like, you're never going to feel if that is something that's pleasurable to you that you have to, all right, get out of gear myself up to force myself to go do this thing. Yes. And if it is rewarding on its own, then it will be something that you are drawn to. What I will say though, that's really an important point here is that at first, when you, when you start taking steps towards sex becoming something that's pleasurable for you, you're not going to get immediately intrinsically rewarded for that because it's part of the learning process. Having sex in a pleasurable way is a skill in something that you need to experiment with and understand and try and fail and learn. And so especially for women who are perfectionists or by achievers, like, they want to play games they're good at winning. And so when they're like, Oh, okay, I want to have sex be something that's pleasurable for me. But then they start taking the steps toward that and they're like, fuck, this why isn't this working? Why isn't this happening fast enough? There's a lot of de-insentivization that happens right away. And I just really want to caution people or just not caution necessarily, but just bring to the surface that like, you're going to fall off the bicycle a bunch of times before you finally get to a place where writing it feels easy. And that is part of the learning process, which is like, take your time with the discovery and know that right away it won't feel good. But if you continue to be persistent in the learning experience of figuring out what you like in the bedroom, it will then become inherently rewarding over time because you're going to get good at it. Yeah. Well, I love that. I call certain things that I do in my life documentary activities because whenever I watch a documentary, you know, I never choose to put it on. I usually do a rerun of 30 rock or a scroll tick tock. But when I do watch a documentary, about 15 minutes into it, I'm like, this shit's so fascinating. Why don't I I should watch it? I should actually watch a documentary every night. Like it's really, I learn so much. I really enjoy it. I never think to put it on, but I'm glad I did. And then I have certain activities like exercising or calling a family member where I never want to do it. But once I do do it, I'm like, damn, this is good. I should do it more often. And I also think of sex in that way a lot where I'm never in the mood to do it. But once it's going, I'm like, wait, this is great. Why did I not want to do this before I should do it more? And people online have said that that is something called responsive desire, right, where most men, they're like, oh, I'll just get horny because it'll just come to me. But for women, it takes a lot longer. And I think the stats are 80% of women have responsive desire. Yeah. So it's like 80, 20 both ways, 80, oh, so about 20% of men, then would have responsive. Correct. Yes. So can you tell us a little bit about this because I find it fascinating that like the vast majority of women have responsive desire. And it's kind of the direct opposite of what is the opposite of responsive desire? The one that most men have. It's called spontaneous desire is the name of it. The way that I like to think about it, though, is that there's kind of two ways that desire can happen. It can either happen head first, body second, or it can happen body first, head second. Like your brain forms the words. I want to have sex and then your body responds or your body starts to turn on and become aroused and feel in pleasure. And then your brain forms the thought, I want to have sex. So that's the way I like to think about it is the spontaneous category is like your brain thinks, I want to have sex like and thoughts move much faster than the body can move. So it feels spontaneous. And on the other side, responsive desire, it is a little bit slower because the body warms up a little bit slower and then the brain goes, okay, now I want to have sex. And that's the brain is responding to the body's arousal because so many times I was at the sapphire lounge in Boston a couple days ago and they had one of those like zero gravity massage chairs and it was massaging like your hands, your feet, everything. The way that after 15 minutes, I was like, this is awkward because like I'm now turned on at the sapphire lounge. But I think it's true because sometimes, right, like it happens in the body first and then the head. And you had this incredible real or Instagram post that was all about building a sexual menu. And I thought that was so fascinating because I feel like so many times a guy will initiate sex with you by being like, hey, you in the mood or like, could I tie you up or blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I'm not like, I'm starting at zero. But if you said, hey, do you want to hold hands? I would do that. And then if we're holding hands and you ask, hey, do you want to make out? I would move from holding hands to making out. And then if you do, hey, we're making out. Can I now like rub your butt? And then that goes to blah, blah, blah. You get more in the mood for it. And it's so fascinating. This idea of building a sexual menu where it's like, instead of initiating with the, at all of these level five requests, why not initiate with me for level one or level two, knowing then that I'll probably move into something. So how do you put together like a sexual menu and kind of bring that up to your partner? Okay. I will answer that question in just a second. I think that what you touched on is so important. And I just want to like zoom in on that a little bit more because what will happen, the most frequent miscommunication that happens when it's not even a desired discrepancy when there's two different desire types in a relationship where one person is the more spontaneous and one person is the more responsive is exactly what you just described, which is the spontaneous person because they think in their brain, I want to have sex. Think that the way that they communicate to the other person is to their brain because that's the way that they are, right? They go, Oh, I think about, I want to have sex and then my body turns on right away. And so they go to their partner who is responsive and they go, do you want to have sex? Thinking that if they just think about it, they're going to want to turn on just like them. That's not how that works. Another person will almost always be a no because their body needs the warm up first before their brain says, yes. So if a partner who's spontaneous goes to the partner who's responsive and goes, do you want to have sex? It's a terrible way to initiate because that person, unless you caught them in the middle of masturbating, yeah, it's not, it's not going to say, yes, yes, and this makes so much sense too. Because sometimes I will, you know, let's say you're not in the mood for sex. You're giving your partner a hand job. At the end of the hand job, I'm like, oh, I changed my mind. I now want to have sex, but it takes that physical work in 20 minutes for me to get there. But we decided to do a hand job because I thought up top. I didn't want to have sex. You thought you were a no, and you were in that moment. You were. I know. And you pretty much always will be because it's out of the blue, yeah. And so just knowing that frame of like, it's actually fine that my default state is no. And if that is the case, then a better approach when your partner asks, instead of saying, no, it's to say, well, maybe like, I would need some things to warm up to be able to tell. So if I'm, if I'm always, if I'm always a no, let's maybe just, unless it's a very solid no, which is fine, like, let's like use consent to absolutely stand up for your no, just try out. Oh, maybe like, but let's do some, let's try some things from this sex menu first. And then we'll see if my body responds. And if it does great, and if it doesn't, maybe we have some alternative routes. So let's talk about the sex menu. I have a free resource that I can send to you that you can maybe link in the description box or whatever, call the likes and limits checklist that has like a couple hundred different options of things that you could try in a sexual space. I think the best way to build a sex menu is look at that list or think about all of your past sexual experiences and think about what are all of the things that I have done sexually that move me along the continuum of yes, that feel like they're a pleasurable moment that would lead to more pleasurable moments sexually. So on the intimacy menu or sex menu, you can put things all the way from like, you gave a lot of great examples, like a hand holding, make out rubbing your butt, like a butt massage, kissing your neck. I gave a foot rub, like chest to chest, long hug, sitting each other in each other's lap. All the way through. All the way through. All the way through. I'm trying to wrestle. No big deal. Yes. Wrestling is great. Wrestling is super playful. I love that. All the way up to things that are more explicitly sexual, like dirty talk or getting tied up for some type of like, yeah, pussy, pussy, why can't I say that pussy massage? The yony massage. I got one of this like, I'm a suture. Yeah. So, and just have a total range of options. And this is a hack that I don't talk about a lot on Instagram, but you can essentially rate those items on level of intensity of, you know, this is a one out of 10. This is a two out of 10. This is a three out of 10. As far as like, how open I would need to be to be able to engage with those things. And then you can use a scale instead of a yes or no question when your partner initiates and they go, Hey, where are you on the scale of openness right now? Yeah. And then you can refer to your menu and be like, I'm a two. Okay. Great. Let's start with a two. Are you open to doing an item that's a two? Okay. Cool. Like, let's do that. I'm just going to do that. [BLANK_AUDIO]