#80 The Biggest Bets I Made — And How They Paid Off: Gary Vee

"I think the dirt and the clouds are the only interesting parts of the game." If you don't know Gary Vaynerchak, well, you've probably been living under a rock. He has a multiple New York Times bestseller. He has multiple nine figure businesses. People ask me how I scale Vayner. 10, 80, 10. I open and close. So the truth is you need to be an absolute freak of nature. You have to have outlier behavior. Do you know fucking hard it is to make a million dollars a year? How do you know what characteristics a great founder has? Very early on in my career, I was unstoppable. Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr are my first three investments in my life. I went on pure intuition. What are your craziest predictions when it comes to AI? My craziest prediction is that most people's grandchildren will marry an AI robot. I had an epiphany. I was like, "Fuck." Welcome to The Big Deal Podcast. I'm Cody Sanchez. And today we have a man who is not only able to predict the social media trends of today. He's been doing it for the past 30 years. He's got an audience of millions every single day listening to him about how do I go viral? How do I build big businesses? What is going to happen in the future? And today we get into stuff that he's never talked about before. But what I think is most interesting about what we talk about today is he's going to make some predictions on what's going to happen with AI for all of us. He is going to tell us the secret place to find underpriced attention. So how do we get more money into our businesses by double tapping on this? And he's also going to hit you with what I consider to be like, I don't know, and a adrenaline shot level of intensity about why to keep going, how to keep going with things get hard, and what it takes to be a business owner that survives over the long term. Gary Vee is somebody who's become a friend of mine over the past year. And listening to him talk about things I've never heard him speak about before on the internet was really a true pleasure. So I hope you guys have as much fun as this one. I'm going to listen back to it because I want to build businesses as big as this man did. Without further ado, Gary Vee. Because when I was looking at your investment, Rolladex, Holy Hell, you have invested in some giant company. I don't think people know half the things about you fully on the internet, but like Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Uber, Snapchat, Coinbase. I mean, I go on and on and on. So how do you smell like a founder that's going to win? How do you know what characteristics a great founder or CEO has? Very early on in my career when I didn't consider myself an investor. I was unstoppable. I only judged what I smelled. I went on pure intuition about the human and the thesis. I wanted to like the idea. And they were far enough along. I was in an angel round. They were a little further, more in A or pre-A. Then I thought I was a hero because I was red hot. And I started to like read tech runch and spend time in Silicon Valley. And I got caught in an era, a three-year era where I invested in just the idea. And I thought if I, what I didn't realize at the time, what I was doing is, oh, this is a good idea. And I knew how to run it. I put myself into the CEO chair, started spending less time analyzing the person, went through an era of ideas, and I lost. I invested in a company called YoBongo. That basically became, like basically two years later, an app called Tinder came out and was YoBongo. I loved YoBongo. But the kid was a young kid. And I didn't spend enough time analyzing his stomach, his merit. And this was the explosion of like smart kids and engineers becoming founders. Which I mean Sean is an animal, the founder. Yeah, Sean, yeah, and yes. And so I, but Sean, that was like two years later. Elliott lower, I think that's what his name was like. I didn't analyze him. So what has worked for me? What has worked for me now when I try to think about it? I think about, do I like the jockey and the horse? Right? This hat that I'm wearing, Seagullman Stables, right? Max and Caro, you know, they're a couple and they're a team. I love them. They're gangsters. They've got it. And I, in the world of kids and rude and palace and Jerry. If you have God, I understand the business of when you're the hottest up and coming fashion brand. It's a business. You know what I mean? You can get to a nine figure exit from a LVMH or da, da, da. So, you know, I'm looking for the jockey and the horse now. The jockey being the entrepreneur, the horse being the business. I need to like both and understand both. So Sam sitting across from you. And like, you're either going to hire me or invest in my company. What are you asking me to tell if you like me or not or want to take a bet on me? Usually, here's how it goes. I'll go with, hey, Cody, start. Hey, so nice to meet you. I'm so excited about this. Tell me everything. Literally, that's what I will say. Tell me everything is kind of a goat. It's not like my go-to question. It's just what I happen to think. It's what I happen to mean. Tell me everything. Like, as much as you want to tell me either about yourself or the business, go. I listen carefully. And then my series of questions is predicated on what I listen to. I'm counter-punching the reality of what I heard. I don't have a go-to other than I need as much context as possible from you. Right now, about you or it. I'm 49. Have been pretty much successful in anything I've run and have had plenty of winning and losing an investment. I can listen and know where I want to go. Sometimes, after that code, it's over. Like, even off the rip, right? Like, it's over because, you know, at this point, I have such a public life, too. Like, I can feel when someone's pandering to like, well, Gary, I love the hustle and the grit. And I love flipping, you know, I can tell when someone's trying to gain me. And then even if they're trying to gain me, I won't even like, that doesn't eliminate them. That's just a data point. Right. Again, because I'm now 49, 22. So for 27 years, for 27 straight years, every day of my life, I have had to be responsible to make payroll with no funding. 27. Like, I'm a real actual operator. And so it's very easy for me to ask questions. You know, how fast can you tell? Sometimes immediately, it's like, you know, like many of us listening, know what love at first sight feels like, right? Or crush at first sight, everybody knows. Or like, immediately, no, I'm incredibly intuitive. My emotional intelligence is disproportionately my go-to. So I can tell right away, I can't tell right away if I'm going to hire someone or invest or if someone's a genius. I can tell right away the things I'm feeling, like this is potentially someone remarkable. I can always tell when someone's just an average C-player right away, you know what I mean? Pretty quickly. But again, C-players for my businesses when I hire, I love a good C, because I think we have a system to get people to B's. And I think B's are great. So you were okay with B and C-players. Well, let's talk about that actually. I think most companies, when you're at scale, need plenty of B and C-players. A-players are always looking to find that though then, because it's like, you don't want to have a culturally toxic C-play. No, that's the difference. By the way, I think my five posts to go on Instagram is, give me an A-plus personality as C-player because C-personality is death on arrival. C, let alone D and F, and there are plenty of those people. No, I'm talking about like, you know, brain power, you know, like, fire power, right? Like, not everyone's the sharpest fucking most, you know, like, like, it's just real life. Work ethic. You know, work ethic, you can't really tell in an interview. I feel like work ethics one that you can see more play out and then you decide. I just think that we and my companies care to level people up and we continue to get better at it. And that's really working for us at Scale Toy with a lot of retention. But yeah, I think I'm looking for firepower, intellectual firepower, personality traits. I'm trying to poke at like self-awareness. I look for humility. I'll give you one that is always let down. Hey, Cody, I'm super excited about this. You know, you're going to come in and be at a VP level at Vayner, which is a big role. Like, you're actually like, I think the VP director role at my company is really running the companies above the SVPs and the C suite. You know, we're an interview, I'm saying that and then I'm like, code real talk. Like, don't bullshit. I'll say like this, hey, real talk. Don't bullshit me because I'm going to find out anyway and I want you to be here a long time and I want you to win here. Give me one of your shortcomings in your career. When people go to Gary, sometimes I care too much and I really like that, I'm like, it's over. Like, give me something real, please. Like, it's quite too hard. It's like why when I realized, you know, five to seven years ago, that lack of candor, which is crazy because Gary meets candors off the charts. But Gary Vayner took the executive when I realized lack of candor, I struggled giving critical feedback. Yeah. And then the firings would be sloppy because of that because people would be surprised. When I really had that moment in the mirror with myself, one of my maybe 40, maybe 42, 43, 44, when I had that moment, literally the next day I started putting it out publicly. That's when I wrote 12 and a half because I literally wrote an entire book because I wanted to put out there my shortcoming of candor Stan, which people probably like almost don't believe because because my strength is candor as a public figure talking about things. But Gary Vee and Gary Vayner took I'm the same. I think, you know, one of the things I always smile about is when people work for me or get to know me, they're like, it's so cool that you're who I'm the same. But it's a different context. Yeah. Like, I'm talking to the blank world right now versus someone who's worked for me for three years. Here's where my bleeding heart becomes a vulnerability. You think at Vayner for the last six months. It's now a problem. You've been there for five years. You've given it all. You've always really given it all. It's a problem. We're leveling up. It's a problem. People around you are fucking pissed. You're not good enough. You're getting paid more than people that are better than you underneath you. It becomes a problem. But I know because I'm so HR oriented, but I know that your dad has cancer. And I know that you just broke up with your boyfriend. And I'm struggling to fucking fire you. I don't want us to tell you it's fucking hard. The end. I don't want us to say never feels good. It doesn't. But I think also, you know, one of the cool things about you is you are so big. You've been around for so long publicly that also that the tough part is sometimes you know, that's the person that's coming and firing you or that's the person that's giving you the critical feedback. It's like this extra fucking layer on top of everything else. You will appreciate this. I love you for that. You're right. For some, at 22, at 26, at 29, at 31, at 34 in the wine store, when nobody on earth knew who I was. It was my biggest weakness. Andrews. Andrews is so still always the same. I just, I just, there was a level of confidence slash potentially ego. I always thought I could make it better. Like I definitely, definitely would have been the girl that would have went after like fucked up dudes because I thought I could make them better. I would have definitely been that girl. I know it. I know it fixed him. Yeah, not like in a like a fucked up way in an optimistic way. Not in like, like, I'm a psycho in a, in a, in a, you know, in the problem for me is I have my problem in a lot of ways is there are many people within my organizations, startups, friend groups, boards, I'm on because I'm so into guidance counselor coach, therapist, energy. And I have such a yin and yang because of the emotional intelligence, but because of the operational and because of like just wanting to kind of do to the world what my mom did for me. I've been successful at it. I'm just like names are running through my head right now where like people started off at like a three emotionally and are at an eight strictly because I put my fucking hand on their shoulder. Every teacher therapist coach guidance counselor knows what I'm saying right now. And you know how rewarding that is? Like I've changed the course of this human being's life. I'm doing that with content to the world. Let alone imagine someone I can put my hand on their shoulder. So it becomes intoxicating in like it feels good to help other people for certain people. I know many people don't feel the way I feel, but for me, it feels good. I like it. It feels like the right thing to do. But what is the opposite of that? What is like the advice that you keep having to repeat that you know people need to listen to? And they just don't. Or every single by the way, every single thing I say patients like insecurity. Don't keep up with the Jones's fuck materialism. Eat shit. Like it's both the left and the right struggle with me. And like me, right? Because because in one side I'm like compassion and all the feelings and everyone's like, on the other side, I'm like, kill every fucker. It's all competent. Like like because it is purple because life is purple. The reason there's so much tenseness right now is the world, the youth, the elderly, the left, the right, the 40s, the every generation, ZX, Y, boomers, alpha. We're fighting for its red or its blue. And like, mother fuckers, it's purple. You fucking idiots. You fucking idiots. It's fucking purple. How the fuck don't you understand that? So you know what people struggle with everything I say? You know, when I tell parents that you got to stop giving your kids money after they're 22, every 20 every parent right now listening who's got a 27-year-old in the payroll doesn't like getting poked like that. But I'm in the receiving end of all this fucking depression DMs from 28-year-olds that are on the payroll because parents don't realize if you're paying for your kid when they're a grown adult, you're telling your kid you don't believe in them through your actions, not your words. They know they're a loser. Yeah, that shit hurts. You know? So what do the what do the parents say to you when you say that? Like what's their excuse for continuing to do that? You know, in the most private conversations, it's it's just service level justifying. You know, like, oh, you don't know my son, like he had this issue. I'm like everyone had issues. Do you understand every person in the 80s in New Jersey guppalied? Every single kid I grew up with guppalied, the popular ones, the knockup, like we've started making these words so big. I told somebody yesterday, don't use the word anxious. You're not. You're inconvenienced. You know, like, like, we've now just gotten so deep into this shit. This is why so many people are struggling. We've given them permission to not do and fight and fix. Oh, that's, I've never said it that way. We have given people with all these big words. Do you know what imposter syndrome is? It's called insecurity. We've just given it makeup. Nobody's like, yo, I'm insecure. Nobody says that code. But so many people like, man, I have imposter syndrome. Makeup. Got it. The definition, literally the definition of imposter syndrome is slaying for I'm deeply insecure. But nobody comes around and says, I'm insecure. But everybody, and I've anxiety. People say they have depression when they don't. And that fucks up for people that actually do. I feel bad for the people that actually do. It's a great point. And it's confused everybody. Everybody, like, you know, bad, I feel for all the people that own big businesses, who like, every person's like, I need a mental health day. And they're like, they're like starting to cancel mental health days. And meanwhile, of the 100 people that are abusing it because they just want to play video games or doing fucking nothing because I live that life. Do you know me sick days I had from 1982 to 1994? A million. I tried to get out of school every day. And boy, when fifth grade Gary found out that legally, they had to send you home. If you went to the nurse and weren't refusing to go back, well, I fucking cooked. I mean, that was everything to me. That discovery. I don't know if I've ever been happier in my life. In fifth grade somehow, I don't remember. I don't want to bullshit. I don't remember how, but I learned that you could actually will. You could just stick in. If the nurse had go back to class, you're like, I don't feel well that if you kept going, they had to send you home. I mean, so I share an immigrant parents beat your ass for that. It was funny. This is why I put my mom on a super pedestal. My mom knew that getting A's in school was not going to lead to my success and happiness. And she did something most parents weren't willing to do and are still not willing to do. And she didn't give a fuck what everybody thought about my decent apps. Got it? She knew me. But is that because somewhere else you were showing her? Yeah, because if you, because if you weren't parent that just was like, my decent apps, fuck off. She's the same lady that looked at me on my 14th birthday and said, you know how you suck at school? I'm like, yeah, she's like, now you work. I was 14. 14 code. I like her. Like, I worked every weekend, every summer. My last childhood moments, like childhood ends in eighth grade. There was no, there was no fun in high school for me. There was no like, I didn't like, I worked because I had to pay the consequences of not working in the classroom. Thank God for me work was my Nirvana. Like, thank God for me. I loved my parents so much. Thank God for me. I knew, I knew as a teenager that I had it because I was doing baseball card shows at 11 and 12 and grown met. You know, this is why I love like, that's where I was getting validation from. In school, I was getting these nefs and grownups were telling me I was going to be a loser. Teachers in the 80s didn't fuck around. I had teachers like Mr. Dr. DeBella and Martin Luther King Elementary School in 1987 said I was going to be a fucking loser. Makes you feel it better. My math teacher told me Helen Keller would have a better shot of winning an archery contest than I would be in a finance. Oh my god. 100%. But God, what grade fuel? Honestly. Pretty thankful. Yeah. But then I was doing baseball card shows at 13, making 800 bucks while the grown up to the left and right at my table were making 300 because it was a crappy show and my mom picks me up at Sunday night to pack up and drive me home and I've got 230, 40, 50-year-old men telling my mom like, "Your son's a genius." Because I was doing all sorts of weird shit that nobody else was doing and so, yeah, I mean, I just, that was like the dollar rack, like I was selling like 50, 60, 70 cents and $1.20, $1.30 cards that you can't move those cards. But because I merchandise them as a dollar rack with a huge sign, everybody just stopped by and bought cards. My friend, Brandon Warnicki, who's still in my life, we met at 14, we did baseball card shows. He runs the wine library. I talk to him every day. He's one of the few humans on Earth I talk to every day. I mean, he was baffled by the dollar rack. When I put it out, he was like, that's not going to work. And then like three hours later, there's not a card left in dollar rack. Merchandising matters. Explain what that is to somebody who doesn't know what merchandising is. How a human sees it on the other side. When you walk into like, you know how like some of you like, it's very simple. It's like, think about the best way to describe merchandising is to describe to everybody their home. Some of us like me are comfortable in slobbery. You know, crap on the floor, room doesn't smell. I mean, I was a fucking cliche dude, right? Like laundry on the ground. Like, room smells like shit. Like, things everywhere. Like, who gives a fuck? Like, don't even do laundry. Like, where does it in my teenage? Oh my god, such a dude. Other people can't even fall asleep and they're apartment in their like room unless the fucking scent is perfect. Everything's perfect. Like, good. So like, like how something shows up for you, I get excited walking up to a garage sale where shit's all over the place. But, but let me take a different angle on it. So that's the setting. Now imagine like, why are you grabbing something when you buy? Like, I always ask myself, after I do it, why did I just pick that up? It's on the end cap. It's at the register. That sign, the presentation. By the way, merchandising is the fashion industry. You know, like, presentability, but like, what make compels something someone to grab an item? That's always what I thought about. The sign, the positioning, the location within the store, the eyesight level. Do you understand that retailers think like I think like a retailer like what's at eye level is what sells. Bottom shelf doesn't sell. When I used to get mad at a supplier, if we didn't have like good negotiations or like they weren't supporting us, I took their most important products and put it in the bottom shelf. Merchandising, you know, I obsessed when I was 15, I used to, when I was 15, 16, I was allowed to go upstairs. Before that, I was downstairs in the warehouse. And when I was at the register, bagging for the cash here, which is what I was doing. And then I became a cashier at 16. I could see how people walk base were on where my dad's registers were. I could see people walk in. And we were slow. We're still local store at that point. I would watch every customer. They'd walk in. What do they grab? Why? So it's presentation, how your tables laid out. It's why it was good at UI and UX when the internet came along. All the designers in 97, 98, 99, 2000 were like, yo, you're really good at this because I thought like a consumer like, why would they click that button? What about below the fucking scroll? What about the checkout? I literally had, you know, empty cart or like a laps cart or whatever it was called, abandoned carts. I remember going to my developer in 2000, being like, can we see who didn't check out? Like, like, it was like, you got to understand this early internet. I didn't. Like, when you're thinking in the store, hey, that guy's walking out. Like, sir, did you not find something that that's what you do exactly what I would do? So I was like, is there an internet? Wait a minute. There's no internet version of this. I'm like, Eric Casner, big shout out to him. Eric, can you see in the coat? Like, I don't even know what to call it, the code, the server? Who the, who's such funny words back then? He's like, yeah, we started emailing people that have abandoned carts and fucking crushed. So like, you know, merchandising is, it's so funny, because the other day I went to, this was two days ago, I went to the Harry Potter store. Yes. And the reason why the same thing, you said, who's better at merchandising in the fucking world than the entertainment space? And I think arguably Harry Potter, probably one of the best of our lifetimes, right? That's a brilliant, one of the incredible IPs that we saw birth. Exactly. And when you walk into that store, it's always packed. And it is huge margin. It's incredibly well designed. And like, they rotate merch, but what I've kind of noticed is they don't rotate it that much. Yeah. Like, it's not like they always have to have the huge Harry Potter fan. I'm a big Harry Potter fan, but I'm not crazy about it. Crazy, but you're very solid. Yeah, yes. And so watching that taught me a lot about, okay, well, if we're ever going to do merch, how do we do this right? How do I make every person who comes in? They have those little greeter, you know, Sam Walton. I loved that. He was like, looking to cut costs, but also put a greeter in front because he realized, oh, it makes people feel different too. Like they're special. Yeah. I think to that point, I do that too. I don't like the middle. So I would say what I see with a greeter at Walmart is not playing in the middle. It's like price convenience all the way here on the right, but then spend on things that others don't spend on because it changes the context of the relationship. I always talk about scale, the unscalable. Actually, here's a tidbit. I believe one of the great misses right now for all of the characters like you and I and everybody else that's aspiring to like win on content and brand is community management. I really do believe that way more people need to DM everyone back. It's you and I do not have that bandwidth, but I'm telling you right now, if you're just kind of getting into your early stages and you have like 10,000 followers and you're posting and you're getting 14 comments, you're getting 13 DMs a day, reply to all of them, scale the unscalable. That's how I built Gary V, by the way, content and replying to everyone on Twitter from 2007 to 2011. I kind of still do it on scale because I remember when I came and spoke at beacon, beacon. I came and spoke. That's normal. I'll go speak at people's events. It's an amazing event. I had a great time. Very seldom does the head of the entire event ask to get my phone number and text me direct. That's really actually not that scale. I mean, how many speakers did you have there? Hundreds. Not to mention that's not your only event. Not to mention you're doing these all over the world. That's actually not even that scalable for you. And so it seems like there's different levels to the game, but you still do the unscalable even at the highest level again. I think the dirt and the clouds are the only interesting parts of the game. That's good. Yeah. And so even in my own organization, people ask me how I scale Vayner and I say 10, 80, 10 and they're like, what does that mean? I go, when we're doing important shit, I tell the team, I have to be involved in the first 10% because I'm molding it. Then I disappear and then you need to come back to me to close it. I open and close the middle is the problem and winners and people aspiring to build big things spend way too much of time in the middle meetings. I've famously internally and a little bit externally obsessed with 15 minute meetings. I had an epiphany. I was like, fuck, I crushed the dirt, the 15 minute meeting. I'm fucking up the clouds. I have a lot of one hour meetings that are actually three hour meetings. I've done more off sites, two, three day off sites this year. We're only, we're not even halfway through. Then I've done the last 10 and it's been monumental. I had this epiphany in November, December of last year. I'm like, wait a minute. I've got the 15 minute meeting down. But you know, this is about like feeling your feelings. I could feel that a lot of important meetings that were an hour weren't getting wrapped up. So now I'm doing a lot more two and three hour meetings and even two and three day off sites, 10, 80, 10. That's a great framework because otherwise it does seem too much and you can get stuck in micromanagement forever. You're like, I'm trying to build a business. Gary and Cody, you said do that and I need to have my hands on everything and I need to care about the dirt, but you can't all the time. Oh my god. I would argue for your audience, like the SMB audience. Yeah. Like the mainstream audience, the number one reason they lose is they spend all their time in the 80. That's why my dad got small didn't go as big as he could. He needed, he wanted to know everything. Wanted to touch everything. Many, many small business entrepreneurs are just trying to be solo preneurs. They don't realize it. They're scared of stealing and security. Someone getting better at it and leaving. There's all these millions of different things that people worried about. 10, 80, 10. What do you think that young entrepreneurs are sleeping on right now? So many different things. You know, you know, this we've had the luxury of living just a little bit. We're so pretty young in the scheme of things, but like, you know, I had so many, you know, when I talk about my career, my life, I always think it's a homage to my parents and my circumstance. And so I had a lot of things figured out at 23, right? My mom really actually built self-esteem. You know, I continue to believe that most people get successful because of insecurity and there's a rare breed that gets there through confidence. And I'm so grateful that I'm in that small group, but I see it in others. But that's not me. That's how I was raised and just the circumstance of being born in the Soviet Union and Jersey boy in 80s and a million other things that are not me. I think a lot about the youth to your point. And there's just a lot. I think, first of all, both men and women. I think we throw it on men, but I've seen a lot of young women. We want to get validation from the masses. It was always a vulnerability pre-social media, pre-internet to want validation from the outside. But the outside in 1974 and 1983 was the Joneses, AK, your neighbors. That was like the, you know, like maybe your church, maybe your like neighbor, like it was tight. Maybe the people in the off, it was small. You know, there's an extraordinary amount of wanting to show that you're successful going on. So I think one thing that a lot of the youth is struggling with is an extreme need for the lambo's, the watches, the followers, the cash, the trophies, the accolade, just so much outside validation. I think there's a lot of lack of self-awareness. I think that in general, that's a human thing. But meaning I think a lot of people chase the trend, you know, whether it's cannabis or NFTs or crypto or flipping or, you know, and I'm, listen, I'm curious about a lot of trends. But I think a lot of people are like, this is, I'm going to do this because this is where I can make my millions. You know, so I think I believe that one of the great ways to actually be successful is to truly know the things you like because you'll work that hard. Like, I don't think I could ever work as hard as I did. If I didn't enjoy it, I couldn't muster it up. It's why I don't, you know, back we were talking right before we started the gym. This morning was a grind. Yeah, like to me, it was like, I really didn't want to, I really don't want to. And my gym, my eating discipline, my doing things around the house. These are fully procrastinations. These are laziness. This is avoidism. This is not accountability. This is like, look, a bird over there run away. Like I do the reverse and more because it's my love. I do the reverse and playing basketball. I like it. I'm like, should definitely not be playing. I like it. I go out of my way. I was just saying to you, my back was hurting all week and I played last night. That was like crazy. So I think if you love what you do, you will do the things that actually require to be successful, which is persevere through the daily shit. So I think those two things really stand out to me. And then the things, you know, like I always laugh when I'm about to say because I know something like Gary, but like I do struggle with an obsession to try to teach these kids about patients. You know, I literally punted my 20s and early 30s because I was obsessed with building a business for my parents. But I truly had nothing at 34, truly actually. Like when I started VaynerMedia, my biggest company, we started it in a conference room, the size of this podcast studio in another company's conference room because I couldn't pay rent. How big is it now? Now it's 2,000 plus people, 350 million a year revenue, not valuation. Oh, you run a profitable business that actually makes money. So you know, it's a big business and that's only one of yours. Like how many I was looking at up today? It's like Vayner 3 Vayner Sports, Vayner RSC V friends, which I think is a different entity. How many like Vayners you got? There's Vayner X, the holding company that holds like that holds like seven or eight of the that's the marketing agency holding company. Outside of it is Vayner Sports because that's a separate business. That's me and my brother. My brother runs that with Greg Gensky. That's becoming a pretty big business. We rep over 100 athletes might even be close to 200 now. A newer one is Vayner Watt, WTT for Eric Wattenberg. That's a TV production company. Our first show is going to start hitting the ear here in the fall and like that's starting to move and groove. V friends is the other biggest business I run. That's my Marvel Pokemon. It's an intellectual property that's I do actually believe in my 80s. That's what I will be known for more than anything else I've done. Probably nobody understands that right now, right? Yeah, like you launch it, they thought. I mean, this quick little NFT thing. Yeah, I mean, most people don't understand me and Vayner, most people don't know Vayner X. Most people when they just heard 350, like when people come to Vayner, they're like often. They're like, what is this? I'm like, this is my company. They're like, most people think I'm a motivational speaker or a content creator, which is fine. I mean, I'm not overly worried about it. VCR group. I have a very substantial restaurant group that's going very well. We have that flyfish club, which was also an NFT membership. It's just there. Yeah, it's really going well. Yeah, it was beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, it's crushing, which is good because that was very high risk. I reward you. Open up that kind of eight figure build out. And the restaurant business is not nice. It's the hits business. Yeah, it's you should hate them. It's a terror restaurants and sports agencies. Bad businesses. Passion, though. Chef Capon, Chef Connor, David Rodelitz, my three partners in that business. This is their life. My brother punted a lot of money because he just wants to be a sports agent. You know, and now he's starting after 10 year it should like I would I should, you know, so I think it ends in close. So anyway, long winded. I think I wish kids were like, no, no, I really love sailing. Let me start a business around sailing, whether it's content creation. Let me go work for someone who's in the sailing business for five years, learn and figure out like that move. Like what people hear me say this like, but Gary, how do I do that? I'm like, why don't you go work for somebody in comedy, in, you know, the fashion. Like everyone has just decided like I can start a business. And most people are not talented enough in their teens or 20s to build a viable business just yet. Yeah, you know, the thing is miserable. Well, yeah, they're, you know, this most people, this was a real wake up call for me when entrepreneurship got cool in like the mid 2010s, like 2010, 11, 12, 13. Everyone started running towards it. And I had always been there. I didn't realize how hard it was for people that weren't natural born. But then it made sense to me because I was a really poor student. And like, I just think some people know how to do school. I wasn't one of those people. And I'm like, oh, this is, this is going to be hard for these people because, you know, it's because unlike school, like I never did homework and failed every test. And the system pushed me through. My school system didn't want people to stay back. They were going for a blue ribbon. They just pushed me through. I literally sit here today. No fucking bullshit. In my four years of high school, I never opened a book, never did homework, never studied for a test, never did a book report, never did a project. And they just pushed me through. Yeah. Which I don't not sure that's good or bad. And basically, yeah, I mean, it's, it's probably neither. But in business, entrepreneurship, the land of business merit, there's no pushing through. Like, if I did that same thing in business, I'd be at a business very quickly and back at a job. And so, yeah, yeah, I saw this stat today, actually. It was on on Twitter. And it was, because you always talk about how hard it is. Yeah, you know, and so there was this tweet today that was like, uh, read this if you're not as rich as you want. And it was the odds of making it that in the US, one in one thousand make over a million in a year, one in 11,000 over 10 million, one in 35,000 over 20 million. And so the truth is, if you want to make it, you need to be an absolute freak of nature. Basically, you have to have outlier behavior. And I was curious what you think and how hard it actually is, because you're oftentimes telling all of us, it's going to be harder than you think. When we, I'm 49, when the number went from, when I was a kid, the number was, if I can make 100,000 a year, I grew up in lower middle class, middle class kind of like vibes, more lower middle class, 100 case seemed to be, I mean, I myself, with, you know, I'm in 15 years old, I'm going to buy the jets one day, but there was another part of my brain that was like, man, the only time I was pumped professionally, financially, was when I broke the hundred thousand barrier in a year, no other time, no other time. When that number for the masses became a million versus a hundred thousand, shit got ugly. Like, just like, you know, fucking hard at this to make a million dollars a year. Like really actually, and the problem for someone like you and I, if we've gotten there, and we spend all our time around people that have gotten there, it doesn't feel rare. One of the, you know, one of the great things that has always happened in my career is I grew, again, because of where I grew up, I always thought about the other, so one of the first offices I opened for VaynerMedia was Chattanooga, Tennessee, not LA, not San Francisco, not Tokyo, not London. And one of the reasons I did that was I always wanted to be grounded to everything up, down, left, right. You, when you go to Chattanooga, Tennessee, if you make a million dollars a year, you're fucking on a pedestal. And by the way, Chattanooga has a wealthy area, old Coke money. There's some great entrepreneurs there. And it's nice. It is. I like Chattanooga. But look, I think, I think that it's incredibly hard. And I don't know why people think it's easy. And I do know why I think people, people think it's easy. In the 80s, there was lifestyle, the rich and famous. And in the 90s, there was like, you know, my crib, you know, the crib show at MTV Cribs. Now 24/7 people are looking at propaganda in their feeds of watches and vacations. And I say, because I keep hearing everyone wanting to blame Instagram and wanting to blame social media, I say, stop consuming it. You know, like, if you're motivated by a great, I don't believe that most people are motivated by it. I think most people get jealous and envious, get insecure, get, and so, yeah, I think it's super hard. Because again, overcottling parenthood in the last 40 years, school is bullshit system, government's bullshit system. Most systems are bullshit. The only two systems that aren't, like, the most not bullshit system in the world is sports. When little Ricky goes on the field, and he's nine, if he sucks at basketball or soccer, like it's exposed, no matter how much daddy and mommy you want to make up some excuses or it right, used to be. Yeah, I mean, parents are really getting their hands and shit, but still they'll go and fight a teacher. Like parents in the 80s didn't, when you got to see your mom and dad didn't go to school and fight a teacher and try to get a B. They do that now. But even though the, I mean, I'm in this circles, I have a 15, 12 year, a 16 now, and 12 year old, like growing up in this last seven to 10 years, parents want to go on the field and kick the ball for their kid. People want to go do something, but they can't, and then thus the kid gets exposed. Sports is the most merit. The next closest is business. The reason I say it's not the same is you know this. People are like, I'm a three time exiting founder. I'm like, you raised $10 million and sold it for 200,000. You're a fucking loser. So people can bowl shit a little bit in business. There's, you know, there is a, but it's, but it's 80% to sports. You know, and I guess in hindsight, I was attracted to merit my whole life because those are my two passions. I love a, I love a game where you know who wins and loses because it tells you if you're good or not. That's right. So do you think, like, when you see that stuff online, I'm not a big showy person. Don't get me wrong. I like nice shit. Like everyone's allowed, totally, but I don't really, I think it's almost an immediate red flag. When I see somebody showing the Gucci Fendi Prada, the fast cars and the private planes, I immediately go, I don't know. If you really had that, you got to flex it. What do you think? Like if you're talking to a young person, are you saying don't fucking follow people to do that? Yeah, you know, listen, I've taken some lumps from a lot of contemporaries to get mad that I talk about this because so many of them are in it. Look, I think that it, first of all, it's so funny where my chemicals just went. One of the great things, and it's funny because I pontificate and share and ponder online 24/7. First of all, just to set the ground rules, I do not have the audacity to think that I'm right about anything, anything, let alone everything. For me, I'm in your camp a little bit, but it's because I think a lot of people do that to funnel people into them, to monetize them. So I think about that a lot. And again, I think it's doing real damage for, like when I post every morning, every evening, I genuinely post from the lens deeply, from the lens of why would someone give a fuck about this post? Why is this good for them? And I do believe a lot of people on the other side of this podcast are not growing because almost every post is about what's in it for me. I want people to buy my course, my book, my collectible. And so I believe that the flashy stuff is inherently selfish, not selfless. But look, people are allowed. People are allowed to share it. I get it. Again, a lot of people grew up insecure in one of these things, and they're proud, and they want to share it. My big thing is that people that have over indexed on that move, I have found over last 20 years, tend to struggle to stay on top, tend to be less happy. So it's not only that the audience that's consuming the Lambo were to watch that I'm worried about, but I'm even worried about the person that's sharing it. I'm worried that they won't be able to sustain it. It's a great, great move. I want to talk to you a little bit about building big companies. You've built a ton. And so with your current knowledge today, I'm curious. Like, let's say you had to go back back to your wine days, almost. Let's say you own a laundromat, because I've been to those things. So let's say you own one laundromat, and you had to start your entire empire from one laundromat today. What would you do? What would be the playbook? Content. Yeah, you know, because, you know, you and I are part of a breed that admires a single laundry mat owner. And I think you have really done a good job of tapping into something that I think is black and white, which, you know, we talked about the last time we hung like this whole, whether you call it micro P or just practical business, obviously, main street is the way you think about it. I think there's a huge opportunity for a lot of those people to build brand. In fact, that's what I did. I built my brand. I am that person. I didn't even own the business. It was my dad's business. I was, I was the person who built it. But my original content is Gary Ve. After five years or during the five years of doing the wine show, my original first ever thoughts about business and life and perspectives were literally out of a liquor store, one store. And I built my brand. I could have easily, if that's what I wanted, opened up 10 more stores, did micro M&A. And I would have built a very substantial franchise, frant or independently owned multi-unit business, which would be worth a lot of money. And in today's environment would be a very attractive PE acquisition as every small business is going to get consolidated. It feels like these days. So I really, the number one thing I would do is get into content for two reasons. One, if you're capable of building your personal brand, I do believe is a moat. I've always believed that it was the moat. I've talked about it for 15 years that it's the moat. It is the one true asset that doesn't get commoditized even in the AI world. You still have your IP. It's your copyright. It's you. Two, if you learn to be a content creator, the other thing that worked with me and this was hand in hand, and this is what I want for this person, is you start getting good at running ads and doing content for your business too. So in my brain, what I'm dreaming up right now is Sally's building up her. She's like, I did this, this is how I bootstrapped it, or how I inherited it, or whatever is real. Here's what I'm doing. Here's my day-to-day troubles. Here's how I think about it. Oh my God, coins. When people stopped having change on them, we had to put in these switer credit card, or just the battle stories of that business. But also what she will learn in the story that I'm telling is she'll learn what really, every and by the way, I know a lot of small businesses listen. So let me give it to you very straight. Disproportionally, the biggest opportunity to grow your business, traffic to your business, average receipt size is to run, if you're a local business that people come to, is to run 10 mile radius Facebook ads. And so Sally in this journey of building up Sally, the laundry mad entrepreneur, would also start to learn how to be good at these things, which she would then be able to use to run ads to her business, which is advertising matters. It's always mattered. It will always matter. And so content. You know, it's so interesting too. In your store, I remember looking back at those old videos of you in your wine business. And today everybody wants to have a set, right? We're on a borrowed set. This one is in mind, but you know, they want to have this fancy set. But you know what, the sickest set is today, you're actually a laundromat. I think so. You know, because it's show don't tell. It's like, no, no, I own this. I'm not. There's no fluorescent lights here. Watch me do this. You don't think I own it. Look, I'm right here. I believe the best studio in the world is the world. I tell my clients, which are mainly Fortune 500 companies. I'm like, look, let's make content at stores in parking lots at festivals. I genuinely believe that. I've always believed that. I was honestly the pied piper in 2009, 10, 11, 12 of no production value. Why let me TV? Didn't even have a mic. No lighting, no lighting, no mic, literally whatever the camera picked up. And so, yeah, I agree with you. I think that store is studio is a big idea. It's a good framework. Yeah, I think so. Store studio is something that I've really championed more privately than publicly. So I'm glad we're getting to pontificate about this. And I think that's right. Yeah. And it means you don't have to have a bunch of money because I'm all about the great equalizer. Like yesterday, my husband and I were kind of laughing in New York because New York's such an equalizer city in some ways. But just like, yeah, so I could drive like a fancy black car, which sometimes I do. And guess what? If you hoof it or if you subway it, you're faster than me. And so like, that's a cool equalizer. That doesn't exist in a lot of other places. And so I think this is a good example for content. Like the best performing ads for a lot of our businesses are exactly what you said. It's like, it's a window cleaner, cleaning a window, and then it reveals a price. Like, that's it. There's no production. And so production often, often again, is disguising insecurity. And a lot of people talk about production. If you listen carefully, it's just an excuse to not do anyone who says, I can't afford it is full of shit. It's called an iPhone. You all have one. The end. Nothing else. Zero. I did it for fucking a half a decade, a $239 camera from Best Buy was the only thing I used. Nothing else. Nothing. Such a good point. You know, another thing that I really like about you is you kind of said it earlier, you're like, I take some, I've taken some punches on the internet and you have this tweet that I was coming back on, which is first, they'll call you stupid. Then they'll call you lucky. Remember, just make sure that you're always executing and they are spending their time calling you things. And I loved that line. How do you deal with haters easily? I am with compassion with empathy. You know, I couldn't comprehend living a life where I spend time trying to tear someone down. Ever ever. I was just about to say, you know, we're starting to get to know each other. I think it's one thing in these settings. I think the thing you would find interesting and this is going to make sense to you because I assume I'm assuming circles and things you've run in as you've built your career. The thing that blew me away growing up in the game was that A players in private settings would spend a lot of time shitting on other A players. It blew my mind. I remember it was happening to me when Scooter Braun, Maverick Carter, some of these people in business were starting to do really well. And I'd be at these things. I knew both of them well. So it's probably why it triggered for me when people would be jealous or envious and they would themselves sometimes more successful. I was like, this is weird. This is interesting. Let me take note of this. Oh, insecurity. Oh, like, like, you know, wow, they don't realize that the world is a but like I was fascinated. I just and I understand it because the one place I'm not me is sports fandom. And my level of envy and jealousy of Michael Jordan and Tom Brady and Bulls fans in that era and Patriot fans is like anger, like almost like the most extreme Republican or Democrat feeling about the other side. So I can tap into the emotion that is jealousy and envy. And you know, because I don't feel in control as a fan. But as real life human, I feel fully in control. And I couldn't comprehend the idea of deploying jealousy or envy against someone else. So how do I deal with haters? Compassion. I mean, they're just not in a good place. Like, there's no other way to say it. Like, could you comprehend spending your time tearing down and so many people do it? And you're like, I just couldn't why would I deploy that energy? You know, if I believe something stinks or someone stinks, my immediate reaction is to just walk away in perpetuity. I want to save my energy and time. I got shit to do trying to win out here. That I remember that tweet. I remember that era when I was thinking about it. I always wanted to be an athlete, but it wasn't in the cards. Being a publicly known businessman with, you know, opinions left right up down. I'm like, oh, shit, I got to taste it. Like, you know, everyone, it's like, you know, it's like hot takes, you know, and so. And I think about it being an athlete, which is if you're an athlete, you know, just got done with this great Nick's playoff run, but it ended unfortunately just a hair too short. But when you're on the court and they're booing you, if you actually take that in, it's very hard to perform. If you take it in and you get excited, that's how I take it. Like, it's the way I deal with it is 90% indifference and compassion. Like I'm like, who gives a fuck, come up, man, just wish Ricky pants 49 lived a life where he didn't have to like be mad at me because I know I'm triggering insecurities for him. And 10% of like gangster I'm going to slice your throat. Like, all right, motherfucker, keep talking like, oh, really? Like you think I've made it now? Let me be build Disney in front of your face with V friends and you're really going to fucking be angry at 80. So there's a little bit of that. But only 10%, which is I'm like, very grateful for maybe 20% depends depends on the day. I like being competitive. I enjoy being competitive. In fact, one of my great angers in the world is eighth place trophies. One of my great angers in the world is when two passive parents get lucky enough to birth the competitive kid probably took after grandma. And then they tell that kid like this game that they're crying about doesn't matter. It only matters. Winning and losing is incredibly imperative to the human race. Nothing is good out of balance. Of course, people like Gary winning and losing like, is it okay to like hurt people to win? No, no, it's not okay. But is it okay to completely eliminate merit and competitiveness and winning and losing? No, no, that leads to let me say it slow suicide. This is what people don't understand. When you start to not care about anything, you get into a very dark place. Teaching a young kid nothing matters is a dangerous game. Or sports don't matter, but getting A's, Matt, you start teaching them fake shit. Yeah, that's it. I mean, I think also going back and realizing that nihilism is real. And you know, some of the greats have talked about the fact that the most horrible thing you can do to an individual is to take away passion in some way to shape or form. It's black and white to me. Yeah, it's as someone who's like fueled by it. I can, you know, like we're animals. Like, I can smell it when someone has it. And I can smell it only two versions. I can smell. I can't smell the metal. Interesting. But with passion, I can smell the two opposites. I can smell when someone's got it. Which is why I've associated invested and been around a lot of people who went on to become enormous. And I can smell when someone doesn't have it at all, which is why I fucking wake up every morning, putting out content to get them out of their darkness. So we've told them that content matters. Yes. We've told them that if you're running a small business, you should think about building up your brand. We've talked a little bit about IP, like all of this talks about content. But the number one of the biggest questions I get asked by business owners in our portfolio is how do you find great talent? How do you find the person to help you with social media? By realizing you need to be the person that first understands it a little bit. How do you judge something you don't know? If I went into a surgery, surgery right now, heart surgery, and I needed to judge what's going on, we have a problem. It's called I have no idea what the fuck is going on. Everybody who's listening, when you own a business, it is hard. When you own a business, you have to be adaptable. When you own a business, you have to deal with the shit. I know that you don't like it. You may even have an ideological disagreement with social media. You must be the person that learns it a little bit so that you can judge the talent. It's not about finding the talent. It's that everybody gave the job to their 20-year-old niece because they thought like, "Oh, you're a kid. You get it." The problem is the 20-year-old niece and nephew use social media to hook up, not to build a big business. My answer, and I talk to a lot of these businesses as well, is you have to spend 50 to 100 hours educating yourself and then doing. You can't read about push-ups to get the results. You have to read and watch videos and listen. I even made it easy for you. GaryVee.com/attention. I literally took my last book, which is $20. I'm like, "You can't afford 20 bucks? How about this? A 44-page free deck to tell you exactly what to do." But I recommend the book. I gave day trading attention to all of my social team. Thank you. Yeah. Well, again, you said thank you, but I could say no. Thank you because it's actually soup. It's why I believe in books. I'm like, "I cannot believe I charge hundreds of thousands of dollars to clients for consulting. And this $20 fucking book is like pretty much there." And, you know, to be fair, why wouldn't I steal your 27 years doing this? And more importantly, my actual living the thesis of the book. It's not my only 30 years of working. It's my last 12 to 18 months. Yeah, that was different. Like, that's what's so interesting about the books I write. I don't write evergreen books. Day trading attention is just to follow up to jab, jab, jab, right hook. Yeah, you're right. It's just 10 years later. Because shit changed. All I want to do, I'm incredibly obsessed with the contemporary. I want to be obsessed with the history to understand the contemporary. And then I just want to be of today. There was this great line actually when I was coming up with a bio on you that I was reading to Kate that is, I think, perfect for you. And it was about the fact that you are pathologically practical about where eyeballs were moving. I mean, that is so true. You're pathological. Like, you are obsessed. And I think that's what it takes to win. I guess I want to close out with two questions here. Please. One of them is, you know, you've mastered these underpriced attention platforms at varying times. You talk about it in all of your books. At any given time, there's an underpriced platform. So let's give the people the non-evergreen. What is that today? Where is the underpriced attention today? Live social shopping. If you sell anything, and this is huge for your crew, if you sell anything, you know, that's not like a physical thing, not a service. VaynerMedia doesn't do this. I can't do this with VaynerMedia. We don't sell a physical thing. If you sell a physical thing, which a lot of you do, every one of you has to learn everything you can about TikTok, shop, and whatnot. W-H-A-T-N-O-T. Those are the two leaders right now. I expect Meta, Google, Twitter, everybody to get into this game. Live social shopping is the underpriced attention. There are a ton of creators right now who will never get millions of followers and make millions of dollars. But if they switch to being someone that sells something on social instead of making lifestyle content, they will make millions of dollars. So smart. I forced Mike to do a garage sale on what not this Saturday. I made 700 bucks. Now, I know you sold some trading cards and stuff like that, but you also, because I heard you were going to do just trading cards. I'm like, no, no, no, I need you to sell some random shit in the house. Give me one example of something that was literally sitting collecting dust in your apartment and you sold for how much? Right. So it includes shipping and handling? Yeah, you charge. I love this. Every time I do garage sales and everything, I'm just like, what about the shipping? You charge shipping. What about the eBay fee? I'm like, everything has a cost. People love and excuse. People look for the why not. I literally think garage sales in flea markets are going to happen in live social shopping. It's not just someone who starts a beauty brand or those storage units. Kate, we're doing your storage unit. She has one here that she's had for two years. She's paying monthly, she's paying 25 bucks a month. We should just do it live on YouTube, not YouTube, because they don't have that yet. Well, that's so I want to turn it into a YouTube video, but do it live on what not or TikTok shop. Make a YouTube video because that's great because that's content. But live the QVC application of social media is here. Listen to these stats. 30%. This is a stat. I'm always a little weird with stats, but this is real. China is fully here. China's got obviously one of the biggest economies in the world. Live social shopping in China, now by the most conservative estimates, represents 30% of all e-commerce in China. Get the fuck out. A half a trillion dollar economy of live shopping in China that is bigger than almost every nation's economy. In the US, I just had the CEO of QVC. He put out this stat that I'm going to try to validate this week, but it feels right-ish. He's like, we're ready at 6% on live shopping in the US, and no one's even seeing it yet. What's that campaign? Do we know what that is compared to what QVC used to be? Because it was like a lot than nothing than now growing. QVC has always been a ton in its not a lot. It was still doing an ungodly amount of business. There's something about the behavior. You're almost like paying for the entertainment. You're like tipping the host. You're like part of the community. I have this concept called commerce payment. So, ready? How about this? You're a hairdresser right now listening, and you sell shampoos and other shit soaps and all the fucking shit in your place, right? You can go live on what not right now. At the bottom of the screen is like this $12 shampoo and you could just buy it while you're teaching people how to use the shampoo on a customer, this is real. I T with Gary Ve, which I really did really well during COVID. I've brought back. I love doing Q&A. On T with Gary Ve, I now do it on what not. Not an in-stream live. I do it on all my socials, but I drive to what not. I drink out of a V friends mug. And the mug is pinned at the bottom of the screen. And while I'm doing the show, people are buying the mug. It out. Commerce payment. I'm not even selling in that format. It's just subliminal right there. Yeah, we're all making reference. I'm like, hey, you like my mug? It's a mini commercial. It's not even a commercial. You just like experimenting. That's part of your thing. You just never stop experimenting. Yes. After it's been validated. I have a trillion dollar stuff of stuff sells in China. Now we have those functionalities. It's going to happen here. It's happening here. TikTok shop is insane. You for your portfolio must deeply understand TikTok shop. So live social shopping is one of them. Okay. Within social, I'm a big fan for people that are obsessed with TikTok and Snapchat Spotlight. So Snapchat Spotlight is much smaller, but it's their TikTok, right? It's in their UI. And there's a fuck load of 15 to 30-year-olds in it. But here's the good part, supply and demand of attention. Like I talked about in day trading. There's a lot of kids on it. They spend a lot less time on it than they do on TikTok. When I say kids, I say 15 to 30. So if you sell to 15 to 30, but nobody's, but the supply's low. Nobody's posting on there. So I'm very hot on Snapchat Spotlight. Substack I think is really, really interesting. I'm about to delve in. IRL streaming. So Twitch. You got to check out BeHeif. I'm an investor in it. So I'll be very biased. I will absolutely do that. And they're here. I've never met faster builders. We invest in a lot of companies and shout out Tyler Dank. He's an absolute psychopath. He's like what you talked about. Speed. It's like you're going to eat Snapchat's substacks lunch. But we'll see. Yeah, yeah. Look, and it's not even, you know, this, you're too smart for this. I don't think BeHeif's going to eat substacks lunch. I think it's an end, not an or. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like there's two big, it's too big of a dressable market. Yeah. It's Uber Lift. That's true. Like when I was like, oh, lift, because I was early investor in Uber, I was like, oh, fuck, lift's going to do well. But I wasn't like, want multiple to do well. Yeah. I mean, look, like when you're on it, like I don't want the Patriots bills and dolphins to do well. Like I don't mind competition. I just know it is. Yeah. Yeah. But if you have a few, then you grow the market share entirely. Yeah, but both of those companies are going into a trend that's happened. Yeah. Like medium was, I was an investor medium, which was at Williams, you know, who's an iconic entrepreneur, co-founder of Twitter, and before that ODO, and blogger before that, and one of the first, you know, blogging platforms, like subscription, Patreon, only fans, like, and then the social sites are going to start. You can already see some of the moves they're doing, like, fuck all these other places. We've got all the audience. We're going to monetize. So there's a lot to it. But these are things I'm looking at every day. Let's end on AI. So what's going to, what are your craziest predictions when it comes to AI? Well, I've gone pretty viral lately because my craziest prediction is that most people's grandchildren will marry an AI robot. How come I live? Some of them, well, not everyone's going to, but I think this is the biggest thing we've seen since the internet. It's that big. It's, when the internet came along, my thesis when I was a kid was, oh, this is like, like, I bet my life on it. And the bet was, this is the biggest transformation ever. And like, everybody will be on the internet. And when I tell you, when I said that in 95, six or seven, people laughed, laughed. When people, like, when they talk about AI, I don't think they realize it's oxygen. Like, when I get excited about the blockchain, NFTs, Bitcoin, that is a big deal. When I get excited about social media, that was a very big deal. Email, Google search. These are big deals. This is a level above. This is internet and AI. Meaning, I view AI as almost boring to talk about because is it fun to talk about the internet as a foundation? Like, no, we talk about the things on top of it. To me, AI is now like omnipresent. It's a reality of life. And there's a real decade of recalibration, reckoning, disruption, opportunity. I'm baffled at anyone who's not spending an hour a day learning about AI and using AI. I couldn't imagine. And I spend a lot of time prompt engineering, you know, just if you don't know what that means, Google it or AI it. And that's what's so funny. Like, even googling it, I noticed I said to somebody the other day, I'm like, AI it, like go Gemini it, go perplexity, go bronch it, go open AI, you know, chat GPT it like it's like it's huge. And it's like the wireless predictions are the internet of things it thinking for you, it ordering it like I think all of shopping will be done by agents for you based on your behaviors. Like, it will know better that you wanted that outfit than you knew. >> Facebook already knows me better than my husband with shopping. >> Most things know things better than husbands know. But we're a bunch of idiots. I think that it is very clear to me that we are going into a transformative half century where AI will be like the piping of this reality, piping railroads, infrastructure, oxygen, whatever you want to call it. This is the biggest thing that's happened a long time. >> Let's give people a couple things to do on that. Somebody's listening, they're like, all right, fuck it, Gary, told me to do AI. What does do AI daily in order to get better at it look like? >> Inside a Twitter ex using Gronk perplexity or Google Gemini or probably the one that chat GPT is so strong and so easy and common for people to download it and use it every day. And then use it to, like, here's how I use AI. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, what are the, this is what I do actually almost every week. One of the five AI apps that popped in the last week that I should pay attention to. AI is answering that question for me so that I can go look at those apps and understand what's happening. Also real quick, because I know a lot of smart investors listening to you, be very careful in investing in AI. The reason I haven't yet is every week you think you just invested in the best X and a week later somebody crushes that. The speed, you want to talk about speed? The speed in which, like, these apps are getting updated and better is profound. >> It is the first time that I am annoyingly an evangelist for tech that is not something I've invested in or own. Like, I won't shut up about, I'm like, whisper, flow, fuck the keyboard, the keyboard's gone. You just, you know, yeah, you just voice text and it's perfect for now. I mean, that's wild. >> What about the fact that nobody has to learn a language anymore? Everyone's going to have earpods that, like, you're going to talk to somebody, they're going to be speaking Spanish and you'll hear it is English and you're going to speak English and they'll hear it is Spanish and Portuguese and Korean. Like, there's profound things coming. But the wildest one is we're going to fall in love with these, you know, AI's and then we're going to put that in love AI into robot bodies and those robot bodies are going to go from looking like Robocop to looking like, you know, Megan Fox. >> And they're sweating. >> Uh-huh. >> And, you know, that Megan Fox movie is a preview. Yeah. >> Does that make you sad? >> No, it doesn't. No, no, it makes me, it makes me understand that this is how it's always been. You know, like, cavemen were different than you and I were. Supposedly, we were apes, right? So, like, does it make our apes mad that we like, like, you know, like, shit changes. Like, I look, I'm not, like, people are like, Gary, that's gross or like, you need Jesus. I was like, I'm like, look, I'm not advocating for it. >> Yeah, you're just predicting. >> Like, in fact, I'm like, advocating for simplicity. I think it's, I'm sad for people that wear gold chains and fucking, like, take pictures and private planes. So, like, I love when people like, this is sad, I'm like, you're sad. You know, like, this is what's brewing. This is what could happen. You're asking for a prediction. I'm guessing, but it fucking feels like it's coming. >> I, I think you're, sadly, I think you're right. I, I do think it's a little sad, but that is every generation. >> But by the way, I go back to this. We're in charge. Like, if you think it's sad as a human one day, like, you can parent and grandparent your kid into, like, understanding the value of a human versus a robot, right? The problem is, like, is that, like, we have to get more comfortable with being uncomfortable. The reason the robots are trending, in my opinion, long term, is we want everything perfect. >> Exactly what? >> You know? But by the way, like, are we, like, are we robots? Like, let me explain, ozemic, vanity, hair extensions, boob jobs, fucking testosterone, HG8, makeup, like, you know, like, people can argue we're sad. We become very, very, very visual. Like, 40, 50-year-old men and women, like, you and I, two generations ago, do not look like the way we look. And those people can say we're sad. Why do we have to alter ourselves? What's plastic surgery? What's Botox? You know? >> Gary's going to be like this. >> I'm probably not, but I don't judge people that are. I just judge when they say something sad when they're doing the sad thing. I remember in the 80s when boob, like, I was a kid, but I remember when everybody frowned on someone who had a boob job. >> And now they're everywhere. >> You know what I mean? >> It's true. >> And so, like, I don't know, is lip filler sad to a woman from 1949? >> It sure is. They think you're fucking sad. >> Zoom out, huh? >> So, just because you think a robot's, like, it's just going to keep doing shit. And I get what people are going to say in the comments, like, yeah, but that's still a human being. I'm like, okay, like, I don't know, like, okay. >> I had a, I hired an AI specialist who's such a, so amazing. You walk into my office. First time I meet the guy in person because we were interviewing him on a project basis. Anyway, he's sitting in the front area of my office. He's got a hoodie on. He's got those, what are those things called? >> VR glasses. >> VR glasses. And he's just fucking my ass drawing in front. And I, you know, take it a little video because it's funny. His name's Chadwick. He's brilliant. And his entire job is to see where AI can play in our companies. But I started talking to him about this idea. And he pushed me really hard on our humans robots. He goes, should they be able to vote? Media reaction? Fuck, no, they shouldn't be able to vote. He goes, okay, what about a human with a fake leg? What about a human with two robotic legs? What about a human with a neuro transplant in their head? Where does it become a human instead of a robot? And I was like, woof. Yeah. And by the way, it might not even be right. Like, meaning like, like, it could be the end of the human race. And I'm like, okay, like, I don't, do you think I want that? But my intuition is that my grandkids will be gone by the time that happens. And like, you don't get to control the future. Like, what is this odd date? This is where this is where the whole politics thing has gotten me crazy. Like, we've gotten to this era where people have the audacity to think the world should be how they see it. I have passionate points of view. We just spent fucking an hour on it. I don't think I'm right. And I don't think it should be the way I see it. Like, I just, and most of all, you can't stop it. You know, technology is undefeated. By the way, as I sign off, electricity demonized when it came out. Actually, the word demonized, when electricity was invented, people did not put it in their home and still chose lanterns and candles because the word in the street was electricity had demons in it. We're scared of new shit. GaryVee, you're the man. Thank you for being here today. Thank you. You guys, this was wild. I was just looking at it. It looks like more than 50% of you are not subscribed to the Big Deal podcast. When you subscribe, first of all, it means we get to bring you bigger and better guests. It's also the number one way you can support this podcast. If you would like it today, subscribe on whatever channel that you're listening to. And I want to tell you something firsthand. You become whatever you allow into your attention span. And what I hope you feel from us every single day is that I value your attention in your time more than anything else. I promise to only bring you things they're going to make you more money. 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